The Elder Scrolls Online

Why is no one pointing out that playing as an Imperial is P2W?

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  • Frawr
    Frawr
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    houimetub17_ESO wrote: »
    Imperials are not the best race. The most flat out stats does ot make them in any way superior.

    This

    20% bonus regeneration on a bosmer is far far superior to 10% stam on an imperial. The health too... an extra hit no big deal.

    10% extra stat is really not a big deal.
  • Islyn
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    nerevarine1138 wrote: »
    Doc! I have to tell you about the future!

    Oh, sorry. I thought that we'd time traveled, because this issue has been rehashed to the point of me wanting to throw my computer through the wall.

    *presses LOL*
    Member of the Old Guard - Closed Betas 2013
  • Varicite
    Varicite
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    Etaniel wrote: »
    Varicite wrote: »
    Kelleton wrote: »
    Varicite wrote: »
    Cuyler wrote: »
    It's a trade off. Every race has it's strength and weakness. HP is imperials strength. You're pointing out imperial strengths and every other races weakness.

    I could just as easily point out imperials weakness and other races strengths.


    22% overall stat increase outclasses every single other race by about 10%.

    Yes..pay no attention to the other class's damage increases, or damage mitigation or regen bonuses. /facepalm

    Oh, I am paying full attention to them.

    And they don't even come close to comparing to the huge flat % increases that Imp provides.

    Regen? Are you serious right now? Do you even PLAY this game at a high level? o.O

    Regen is worthless atm thanks to passives / etc, unless you are trying to put together some kind of gimmicky dodge roll build. Except for restore-type regen, like Redguards have. Hey, who else gets one of those? Oh, right, IMPERIALS do.

    ahah ahahh hahahahaha regen is worthless lmao best quote 2015 mate. Regen is so much better than high stats ! (at least in PvP)

    Can you somehow not get high regen w/out a 9% racial passive? Is that what you're telling me right now?
  • eventide03b14a_ESO
    eventide03b14a_ESO
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    Varicite wrote: »
    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    MorHawk wrote: »
    akray21 wrote: »
    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    Who necro'd this topic from the beta? Seriously the Imperials have been out for a year now and suddenly this is an issue to cry over? If they were really that OP all you would see are Imperials. This comes from nothing more than people crying over $10. Please grow up.

    Again, it was not an issue when there were soft caps... Now that they are removed, it is a greater issue...

    Six pages in, and people still don't seem to grasp this simple concept. Things have changed. The racials are now worth more than before. This needs to be frigging fixed.

    That still doesn't make it P2W. The race and the bonuses didn't change, just everything else. Honestly I wouldn't hold your breath; it's unlikely any changes are going to happen to the Imperials so instead of whining about it, it's probably best to just accept it and move on.

    Devs have already stated (more than once) that they would like to do a balance pass on all of the races.

    And it's NEVER best to just accept imbalance and move on. What is this, 1920?

    Great and if/when they do you can be satisfied that the Imperials are just like every other class. In the meantime what a private company decides to do with their property is their business. Nobody is excluded here unless you can't pony up the $10 for the imperial edition, in which case I'd say you have bigger issues to deal with.
    :trollin:
  • Rylana
    Rylana
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    Hey OP, roll an imperial char

    Then come find me on any of my v14 toons (protip: one is a bosmer, one is a dunmer, and two are bretons)

    Then you will come back to the forums and report on how pay to win your imperial was.

    Checkmate.
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  • eventide03b14a_ESO
    eventide03b14a_ESO
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    Frawr wrote: »
    houimetub17_ESO wrote: »
    Imperials are not the best race. The most flat out stats does ot make them in any way superior.

    This

    20% bonus regeneration on a bosmer is far far superior to 10% stam on an imperial. The health too... an extra hit no big deal.

    10% extra stat is really not a big deal.

    It doesn't matter how much sense you make or how many factual numbers you present. It's already been decided that Imperials win over everything in all circumstances no matter what.
    :trollin:
  • akray21
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    Rylana wrote: »
    Hey OP, roll an imperial char

    Then come find me on any of my v14 toons (protip: one is a bosmer, one is a dunmer, and two are bretons)

    Then you will come back to the forums and report on how pay to win your imperial was.

    Checkmate.

    No thanks, not paying for Imperial race in the crown store then grinding for 15 days just so I can dual you.
  • akray21
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    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    Frawr wrote: »
    houimetub17_ESO wrote: »
    Imperials are not the best race. The most flat out stats does ot make them in any way superior.

    This

    20% bonus regeneration on a bosmer is far far superior to 10% stam on an imperial. The health too... an extra hit no big deal.

    10% extra stat is really not a big deal.

    It doesn't matter how much sense you make or how many factual numbers you present. It's already been decided that Imperials win over everything in all circumstances no matter what.

    You are the one ignoring factual numbers
  • uso245
    uso245
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    I've always had Imperial Edition since I preordered my copy of the physical collector edition, but have I ever actually used an Imperial. As one person pointed out Imperial isn't really "that good" jack of all trades but a master at none. With a stamina heavy class I honestly love my Redguard more due to the passives being more armed towards what I am doing. I can't tell you how many times I have taken out Imperials but it becomes noticeable in pre-longed fights since they don't have reduction and/or regeneration to back up those longer fights. I've honestly played Redguard and Breton races more simply because of their passives. Sure I don't have amazing crit like a Khajiit or the huge destruction potential of a Altmer but when it comes to longer fights you tend to last a bit more then the jack of all trades. I mean it would be good for you if you are running with a huge group but my guild and I specialize in smaller grouped conflicts and ganking more then zerging. For sustain use/builds.
    Edited by uso245 on April 22, 2015 3:57PM
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  • MCMancub
    MCMancub
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    Rylana wrote: »
    Hey OP, roll an imperial char

    Then come find me on any of my v14 toons (protip: one is a bosmer, one is a dunmer, and two are bretons)

    Then you will come back to the forums and report on how pay to win your imperial was.

    Checkmate.

    You're ignoring the fact that Imperials primarily outclass other stamina building races in PVE, where min/max is an actual issue.
  • Varicite
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    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    Varicite wrote: »
    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    MorHawk wrote: »
    akray21 wrote: »
    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    Who necro'd this topic from the beta? Seriously the Imperials have been out for a year now and suddenly this is an issue to cry over? If they were really that OP all you would see are Imperials. This comes from nothing more than people crying over $10. Please grow up.

    Again, it was not an issue when there were soft caps... Now that they are removed, it is a greater issue...

    Six pages in, and people still don't seem to grasp this simple concept. Things have changed. The racials are now worth more than before. This needs to be frigging fixed.

    That still doesn't make it P2W. The race and the bonuses didn't change, just everything else. Honestly I wouldn't hold your breath; it's unlikely any changes are going to happen to the Imperials so instead of whining about it, it's probably best to just accept it and move on.

    Devs have already stated (more than once) that they would like to do a balance pass on all of the races.

    And it's NEVER best to just accept imbalance and move on. What is this, 1920?

    Great and if/when they do you can be satisfied that the Imperials are just like every other class. In the meantime what a private company decides to do with their property is their business. Nobody is excluded here unless you can't pony up the $10 for the imperial edition, in which case I'd say you have bigger issues to deal with.

    Exactly who are you talking to now?

    I never said anything about it being P2W, I am not the OP. I own 2 Imperial Editions anyway.

    I am simply pointing out that Imperials are, indeed, the best race overall.
  • eventide03b14a_ESO
    eventide03b14a_ESO
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    akray21 wrote: »
    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    Frawr wrote: »
    houimetub17_ESO wrote: »
    Imperials are not the best race. The most flat out stats does ot make them in any way superior.

    This

    20% bonus regeneration on a bosmer is far far superior to 10% stam on an imperial. The health too... an extra hit no big deal.

    10% extra stat is really not a big deal.

    It doesn't matter how much sense you make or how many factual numbers you present. It's already been decided that Imperials win over everything in all circumstances no matter what.

    You are the one ignoring factual numbers

    No I'm not. I have an imperial, I also have a Breton. I also have a Nord, and I also have a Redguard. They all have different passives but none of them are an "I win all" passive. Grow up.
    :trollin:
  • Varicite
    Varicite
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    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    akray21 wrote: »
    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    Frawr wrote: »
    houimetub17_ESO wrote: »
    Imperials are not the best race. The most flat out stats does ot make them in any way superior.

    This

    20% bonus regeneration on a bosmer is far far superior to 10% stam on an imperial. The health too... an extra hit no big deal.

    10% extra stat is really not a big deal.

    It doesn't matter how much sense you make or how many factual numbers you present. It's already been decided that Imperials win over everything in all circumstances no matter what.

    You are the one ignoring factual numbers

    No I'm not. I have an imperial, I also have a Breton. I also have a Nord, and I also have a Redguard. They all have different passives but none of them are an "I win all" passive. Grow up.

    Hmm, I wasn't aware that anybody had said that Imperials had an "I win all" passive.

    I'm pretty sure that what was said was that from a min/max perspective, Imps come out slightly ahead of other races for most builds, and for the ones that they don't.. they are still very good.

    ...which makes them the best race overall. Not that they are better than every race at everything, that's just some obtuse argument that others keep pretending was said.

    Nobody has actually said that.

    Edited by Varicite on April 22, 2015 4:08PM
  • eventide03b14a_ESO
    eventide03b14a_ESO
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    Varicite wrote: »
    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    akray21 wrote: »
    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    Frawr wrote: »
    houimetub17_ESO wrote: »
    Imperials are not the best race. The most flat out stats does ot make them in any way superior.

    This

    20% bonus regeneration on a bosmer is far far superior to 10% stam on an imperial. The health too... an extra hit no big deal.

    10% extra stat is really not a big deal.

    It doesn't matter how much sense you make or how many factual numbers you present. It's already been decided that Imperials win over everything in all circumstances no matter what.

    You are the one ignoring factual numbers

    No I'm not. I have an imperial, I also have a Breton. I also have a Nord, and I also have a Redguard. They all have different passives but none of them are an "I win all" passive. Grow up.

    Hmm, I wasn't aware that anybody had said that Imperials had an "I win all" passive.

    I'm pretty sure that what was said was that from a min/max perspective, Imps come out slightly ahead of other races for most builds, and for the ones that they don't.. they are still very good.

    ...which makes them the best race overall. Not that they are better than every race at everything, that's just some obtuse argument that others keep pretending was said.

    Nobody has actually said that.

    The title of the thread indicates it's P2W, and it's just not true. I'm sorry if my sarcasm was lost on you. Let me break it down. From a min/max perspective an Imperial does nothing for a magicka based sorcerer. Good for a tank? Probably. Good for a stamina based DPS? I'd say Redguards are still better. See?
    :trollin:
  • MCMancub
    MCMancub
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    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    Varicite wrote: »
    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    akray21 wrote: »
    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    Frawr wrote: »
    houimetub17_ESO wrote: »
    Imperials are not the best race. The most flat out stats does ot make them in any way superior.

    This

    20% bonus regeneration on a bosmer is far far superior to 10% stam on an imperial. The health too... an extra hit no big deal.

    10% extra stat is really not a big deal.

    It doesn't matter how much sense you make or how many factual numbers you present. It's already been decided that Imperials win over everything in all circumstances no matter what.

    You are the one ignoring factual numbers

    No I'm not. I have an imperial, I also have a Breton. I also have a Nord, and I also have a Redguard. They all have different passives but none of them are an "I win all" passive. Grow up.

    Hmm, I wasn't aware that anybody had said that Imperials had an "I win all" passive.

    I'm pretty sure that what was said was that from a min/max perspective, Imps come out slightly ahead of other races for most builds, and for the ones that they don't.. they are still very good.

    ...which makes them the best race overall. Not that they are better than every race at everything, that's just some obtuse argument that others keep pretending was said.

    Nobody has actually said that.

    The title of the thread indicates it's P2W, and it's just not true. I'm sorry if my sarcasm was lost on you. Let me break it down. From a min/max perspective an Imperial does nothing for a magicka based sorcerer. Good for a tank? Probably. Good for a stamina based DPS? I'd say Redguards are still better. See?

    From a min/max perspective Imperial does quite a bit for a magicka based sorcerer if you're playing another race that also doesn't gain direct benefits to magicka. That's the point. They're better at stamina than other stamina races and they're better at magicka than other stamina races. If you're playing magicka and want to maximize potential, sure, pick Breton, Duner, or High Elf. For ANY other type of play, Imperial is better.

    Also, if you read the whole thread you'd find posts explaining why Imperials always outdamage Redguards. You can have an opinion, but numbers don't lie.
  • Varicite
    Varicite
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    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    Varicite wrote: »
    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    akray21 wrote: »
    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    Frawr wrote: »
    houimetub17_ESO wrote: »
    Imperials are not the best race. The most flat out stats does ot make them in any way superior.

    This

    20% bonus regeneration on a bosmer is far far superior to 10% stam on an imperial. The health too... an extra hit no big deal.

    10% extra stat is really not a big deal.

    It doesn't matter how much sense you make or how many factual numbers you present. It's already been decided that Imperials win over everything in all circumstances no matter what.

    You are the one ignoring factual numbers

    No I'm not. I have an imperial, I also have a Breton. I also have a Nord, and I also have a Redguard. They all have different passives but none of them are an "I win all" passive. Grow up.

    Hmm, I wasn't aware that anybody had said that Imperials had an "I win all" passive.

    I'm pretty sure that what was said was that from a min/max perspective, Imps come out slightly ahead of other races for most builds, and for the ones that they don't.. they are still very good.

    ...which makes them the best race overall. Not that they are better than every race at everything, that's just some obtuse argument that others keep pretending was said.

    Nobody has actually said that.

    The title of the thread indicates it's P2W, and it's just not true. I'm sorry if my sarcasm was lost on you. Let me break it down. From a min/max perspective an Imperial does nothing for a magicka based sorcerer. Good for a tank? Probably. Good for a stamina based DPS? I'd say Redguards are still better. See?

    I'd say Redguard and Imp are comparable at stamina roles. I've said that plenty already.

    As for magicka based, the magicka races are clearly better. But Imp is still better than every other non-magicka based race in this role. You don't need stamina to block / CC break on your Sorc? You don't need health? Those racials are worlds better than, say, a Khajit or Redguard magicka Sorc.

    See, every single race has something they excel at and something they are terrible at. Imperials have things they excel at and are terrible at nothing. That's what makes them the best overall.

    That's all that's really been said, and people seem to be all up in arms for pointing out what should be pretty common knowledge by now.

    PS) There's a difference between being sarcastic and being snide, btw. ; )

    Edited by Varicite on April 22, 2015 4:20PM
  • eventide03b14a_ESO
    eventide03b14a_ESO
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    MCMancub wrote: »
    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    Varicite wrote: »
    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    akray21 wrote: »
    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    Frawr wrote: »
    houimetub17_ESO wrote: »
    Imperials are not the best race. The most flat out stats does ot make them in any way superior.

    This

    20% bonus regeneration on a bosmer is far far superior to 10% stam on an imperial. The health too... an extra hit no big deal.

    10% extra stat is really not a big deal.

    It doesn't matter how much sense you make or how many factual numbers you present. It's already been decided that Imperials win over everything in all circumstances no matter what.

    You are the one ignoring factual numbers

    No I'm not. I have an imperial, I also have a Breton. I also have a Nord, and I also have a Redguard. They all have different passives but none of them are an "I win all" passive. Grow up.

    Hmm, I wasn't aware that anybody had said that Imperials had an "I win all" passive.

    I'm pretty sure that what was said was that from a min/max perspective, Imps come out slightly ahead of other races for most builds, and for the ones that they don't.. they are still very good.

    ...which makes them the best race overall. Not that they are better than every race at everything, that's just some obtuse argument that others keep pretending was said.

    Nobody has actually said that.

    The title of the thread indicates it's P2W, and it's just not true. I'm sorry if my sarcasm was lost on you. Let me break it down. From a min/max perspective an Imperial does nothing for a magicka based sorcerer. Good for a tank? Probably. Good for a stamina based DPS? I'd say Redguards are still better. See?

    From a min/max perspective Imperial does quite a bit for a magicka based sorcerer if you're playing another race that also doesn't gain direct benefits to magicka. That's the point. They're better at stamina than other stamina races and they're better at magicka than other stamina races. If you're playing magicka and want to maximize potential, sure, pick Breton, Duner, or High Elf. For ANY other type of play, Imperial is better.

    Also, if you read the whole thread you'd find posts explaining why Imperials always outdamage Redguards. You can have an opinion, but numbers don't lie.

    That's just not true. Redguards also have an increase to max stamina on top of stamina regen which Imperials do not have. If you actually talked to people who know what they are doing they would tell you stamina regen is king right now. You are completely off the mark on this. Extra health might give you a little more survivability as tank but the regen to stamina is better if you are a stamina DPS. Here's 10g go buy a clue.
    :trollin:
  • uso245
    uso245
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    Varicite wrote: »
    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    Varicite wrote: »
    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    akray21 wrote: »
    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    Frawr wrote: »
    houimetub17_ESO wrote: »
    Imperials are not the best race. The most flat out stats does ot make them in any way superior.

    This

    20% bonus regeneration on a bosmer is far far superior to 10% stam on an imperial. The health too... an extra hit no big deal.

    10% extra stat is really not a big deal.

    It doesn't matter how much sense you make or how many factual numbers you present. It's already been decided that Imperials win over everything in all circumstances no matter what.

    You are the one ignoring factual numbers

    No I'm not. I have an imperial, I also have a Breton. I also have a Nord, and I also have a Redguard. They all have different passives but none of them are an "I win all" passive. Grow up.

    Hmm, I wasn't aware that anybody had said that Imperials had an "I win all" passive.

    I'm pretty sure that what was said was that from a min/max perspective, Imps come out slightly ahead of other races for most builds, and for the ones that they don't.. they are still very good.

    ...which makes them the best race overall. Not that they are better than every race at everything, that's just some obtuse argument that others keep pretending was said.

    Nobody has actually said that.

    The title of the thread indicates it's P2W, and it's just not true. I'm sorry if my sarcasm was lost on you. Let me break it down. From a min/max perspective an Imperial does nothing for a magicka based sorcerer. Good for a tank? Probably. Good for a stamina based DPS? I'd say Redguards are still better. See?

    I'd say Redguard and Imp are comparable at stamina roles. I've said that plenty already.

    As for magicka based, the magicka races are clearly better. But Imp is still better than every other non-magicka based race in this role. You don't need stamina to block / CC break on your Sorc? You don't need health? Those racials are worlds better than, say, a Khajit or Redguard magicka Sorc.

    See, every single race has something they excel at and something they are terrible at. Imperials have things they excel at and are terrible at nothing. That's what makes them the best overall.

    That's all that's really been said, and people seem to be all up in arms for pointing out what should be pretty common knowledge by now.

    PS) There's a difference between being sarcastic and being snide, btw. ; )

    Said this before, Jack of All Trades Master of None. PvE-wise I can not say how well they do some people in my PvE guild still prefer other races (tanks are probably the only one that can fully utilize this) but in PvP Imperials drop like flies.
    Edited by uso245 on April 22, 2015 4:24PM
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  • Panda244
    Panda244
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    Redguard is vastly superior to Imperial for Stamina builds as they can surpass the Stamina Recovery of an Imperial with ease, and Stamina Recovery is much more important than max Stamina for PvP, PvE, and DPS. You can have 30k Stamina and 600 Recovery, what're you going to do when you run out of Stamina? Die.

    There's no way around it, you need sustain to survive in this game, with no Recovery, you will eventually die. Period.
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  • eventide03b14a_ESO
    eventide03b14a_ESO
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    Varicite wrote: »
    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    Varicite wrote: »
    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    akray21 wrote: »
    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    Frawr wrote: »
    houimetub17_ESO wrote: »
    Imperials are not the best race. The most flat out stats does ot make them in any way superior.

    This

    20% bonus regeneration on a bosmer is far far superior to 10% stam on an imperial. The health too... an extra hit no big deal.

    10% extra stat is really not a big deal.

    It doesn't matter how much sense you make or how many factual numbers you present. It's already been decided that Imperials win over everything in all circumstances no matter what.

    You are the one ignoring factual numbers

    No I'm not. I have an imperial, I also have a Breton. I also have a Nord, and I also have a Redguard. They all have different passives but none of them are an "I win all" passive. Grow up.

    Hmm, I wasn't aware that anybody had said that Imperials had an "I win all" passive.

    I'm pretty sure that what was said was that from a min/max perspective, Imps come out slightly ahead of other races for most builds, and for the ones that they don't.. they are still very good.

    ...which makes them the best race overall. Not that they are better than every race at everything, that's just some obtuse argument that others keep pretending was said.

    Nobody has actually said that.

    The title of the thread indicates it's P2W, and it's just not true. I'm sorry if my sarcasm was lost on you. Let me break it down. From a min/max perspective an Imperial does nothing for a magicka based sorcerer. Good for a tank? Probably. Good for a stamina based DPS? I'd say Redguards are still better. See?

    I'd say Redguard and Imp are comparable at stamina roles. I've said that plenty already.

    As for magicka based, the magicka races are clearly better. But Imp is still better than every other non-magicka based race in this role. You don't need stamina to block / CC break on your Sorc? You don't need health? Those racials are worlds better than, say, a Khajit or Redguard magicka Sorc.

    See, every single race has something they excel at and something they are terrible at. Imperials have things they excel at and are terrible at nothing. That's what makes them the best overall.

    That's all that's really been said, and people seem to be all up in arms for pointing out what should be pretty common knowledge by now.

    PS) There's a difference between being sarcastic and being snide, btw. ; )

    And I disagree. The regen is better than max HP. HP is really easy to get in this game and you really don't need that much HP to DPS. I honestly don't care who I offend at this point. This whole thread is an attack on the misguided notion that Imperials are this amazing "master race" that you can only access if you pay a premium. It's not true, and it doesn't matter how often this is pointed out. I'm past the point of being polite now.

    Edited by eventide03b14a_ESO on April 22, 2015 4:31PM
    :trollin:
  • Varicite
    Varicite
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    Panda244 wrote: »
    Redguard is vastly superior to Imperial for Stamina builds as they can surpass the Stamina Recovery of an Imperial with ease, and Stamina Recovery is much more important than max Stamina for PvP, PvE, and DPS. You can have 30k Stamina and 600 Recovery, what're you going to do when you run out of Stamina? Die.

    There's no way around it, you need sustain to survive in this game, with no Recovery, you will eventually die. Period.

    In what world does ANY stamina build have 600 recovery though?

    In reality, if a Redguard has 3k stam recovery, an Imp would have 2.7k.
  • MCMancub
    MCMancub
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    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    MCMancub wrote: »
    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    Varicite wrote: »
    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    akray21 wrote: »
    eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
    Frawr wrote: »
    houimetub17_ESO wrote: »
    Imperials are not the best race. The most flat out stats does ot make them in any way superior.

    This

    20% bonus regeneration on a bosmer is far far superior to 10% stam on an imperial. The health too... an extra hit no big deal.

    10% extra stat is really not a big deal.

    It doesn't matter how much sense you make or how many factual numbers you present. It's already been decided that Imperials win over everything in all circumstances no matter what.

    You are the one ignoring factual numbers

    No I'm not. I have an imperial, I also have a Breton. I also have a Nord, and I also have a Redguard. They all have different passives but none of them are an "I win all" passive. Grow up.

    Hmm, I wasn't aware that anybody had said that Imperials had an "I win all" passive.

    I'm pretty sure that what was said was that from a min/max perspective, Imps come out slightly ahead of other races for most builds, and for the ones that they don't.. they are still very good.

    ...which makes them the best race overall. Not that they are better than every race at everything, that's just some obtuse argument that others keep pretending was said.

    Nobody has actually said that.

    The title of the thread indicates it's P2W, and it's just not true. I'm sorry if my sarcasm was lost on you. Let me break it down. From a min/max perspective an Imperial does nothing for a magicka based sorcerer. Good for a tank? Probably. Good for a stamina based DPS? I'd say Redguards are still better. See?

    From a min/max perspective Imperial does quite a bit for a magicka based sorcerer if you're playing another race that also doesn't gain direct benefits to magicka. That's the point. They're better at stamina than other stamina races and they're better at magicka than other stamina races. If you're playing magicka and want to maximize potential, sure, pick Breton, Duner, or High Elf. For ANY other type of play, Imperial is better.

    Also, if you read the whole thread you'd find posts explaining why Imperials always outdamage Redguards. You can have an opinion, but numbers don't lie.

    That's just not true. Redguards also have an increase to max stamina on top of stamina regen which Imperials do not have. If you actually talked to people who know what they are doing they would tell you stamina regen is king right now. You are completely off the mark on this. Extra health might give you a little more survivability as tank but the regen to stamina is better if you are a stamina DPS. Here's 10g go buy a clue.

    And it's already been stated that stamina regen is only better than max stamina up to a certain point, a point Imperials can get to extremely easily. It's much easier for an Imperial to make up the stamina regen they don't get for being an Imperial than it is for a Redguard to make up the health they don't get for being a Redguard.
  • Panda244
    Panda244
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    Varicite wrote: »
    Panda244 wrote: »
    Redguard is vastly superior to Imperial for Stamina builds as they can surpass the Stamina Recovery of an Imperial with ease, and Stamina Recovery is much more important than max Stamina for PvP, PvE, and DPS. You can have 30k Stamina and 600 Recovery, what're you going to do when you run out of Stamina? Die.

    There's no way around it, you need sustain to survive in this game, with no Recovery, you will eventually die. Period.

    In what world does ANY stamina build have 600 recovery though?

    In reality, if a Redguard has 3k stam recovery, an Imp would have 2.7k.

    Raw damage builds have no Recovery whatsoever be it Stamina or Magicka. If all you build for is one-shotting people with Wrecking Blow then you probably have 800-1000 stam recovery which is nothing, well it's not nothing, but it ain't worth a damn in heated battles.
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  • Varicite
    Varicite
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    ✭
    Panda244 wrote: »
    Varicite wrote: »
    Panda244 wrote: »
    Redguard is vastly superior to Imperial for Stamina builds as they can surpass the Stamina Recovery of an Imperial with ease, and Stamina Recovery is much more important than max Stamina for PvP, PvE, and DPS. You can have 30k Stamina and 600 Recovery, what're you going to do when you run out of Stamina? Die.

    There's no way around it, you need sustain to survive in this game, with no Recovery, you will eventually die. Period.

    In what world does ANY stamina build have 600 recovery though?

    In reality, if a Redguard has 3k stam recovery, an Imp would have 2.7k.

    Raw damage builds have no Recovery whatsoever be it Stamina or Magicka. If all you build for is one-shotting people with Wrecking Blow then you probably have 800-1000 stam recovery which is nothing, well it's not nothing, but it ain't worth a damn in heated battles.

    Why... why would you do this, though? o.O

    Why would an Imperial suddenly be pigeon-holed into a raw damage build any more than a Redguard because he has 9% less regen and 12% more health + health sustain through Red Diamond?

    I'm not really following here...

    It feels like you're comparing a regen-stacked Redguard to a weapon damage-stacked Imp, which is like.. apples and mangoes.

    Edited by Varicite on April 22, 2015 4:40PM
  • MCMancub
    MCMancub
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    Panda244 wrote: »
    Varicite wrote: »
    Panda244 wrote: »
    Redguard is vastly superior to Imperial for Stamina builds as they can surpass the Stamina Recovery of an Imperial with ease, and Stamina Recovery is much more important than max Stamina for PvP, PvE, and DPS. You can have 30k Stamina and 600 Recovery, what're you going to do when you run out of Stamina? Die.

    There's no way around it, you need sustain to survive in this game, with no Recovery, you will eventually die. Period.

    In what world does ANY stamina build have 600 recovery though?

    In reality, if a Redguard has 3k stam recovery, an Imp would have 2.7k.

    Raw damage builds have no Recovery whatsoever be it Stamina or Magicka. If all you build for is one-shotting people with Wrecking Blow then you probably have 800-1000 stam recovery which is nothing, well it's not nothing, but it ain't worth a damn in heated battles.

    He would still take Mooncalf and gain lots of Stamina Regen...
  • Panda244
    Panda244
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    ✭
    Varicite wrote: »
    Panda244 wrote: »
    Varicite wrote: »
    Panda244 wrote: »
    Redguard is vastly superior to Imperial for Stamina builds as they can surpass the Stamina Recovery of an Imperial with ease, and Stamina Recovery is much more important than max Stamina for PvP, PvE, and DPS. You can have 30k Stamina and 600 Recovery, what're you going to do when you run out of Stamina? Die.

    There's no way around it, you need sustain to survive in this game, with no Recovery, you will eventually die. Period.

    In what world does ANY stamina build have 600 recovery though?

    In reality, if a Redguard has 3k stam recovery, an Imp would have 2.7k.

    Raw damage builds have no Recovery whatsoever be it Stamina or Magicka. If all you build for is one-shotting people with Wrecking Blow then you probably have 800-1000 stam recovery which is nothing, well it's not nothing, but it ain't worth a damn in heated battles.

    Why... why would you do this, though? o.O

    Why would an Imperial suddenly be pigeon-holed into a raw damage build any more than a Redguard because he has 9% less regen and 12% more health + health sustain through Red Diamond?

    I'm not really following here...

    It feels like you're comparing a regen-stacked Redguard to a weapon damage-stacked Imp, which is like.. apples and mangoes.

    I'm pointing out max stats mean nothing and you need sustain to do anything.

    Sustain = recovery.

    Am I making sense now? :confused:
    Aldmeri Dominion For Life!
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    #FreeZazeer
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  • MCMancub
    MCMancub
    ✭✭✭✭
    Panda244 wrote: »
    Varicite wrote: »
    Panda244 wrote: »
    Varicite wrote: »
    Panda244 wrote: »
    Redguard is vastly superior to Imperial for Stamina builds as they can surpass the Stamina Recovery of an Imperial with ease, and Stamina Recovery is much more important than max Stamina for PvP, PvE, and DPS. You can have 30k Stamina and 600 Recovery, what're you going to do when you run out of Stamina? Die.

    There's no way around it, you need sustain to survive in this game, with no Recovery, you will eventually die. Period.

    In what world does ANY stamina build have 600 recovery though?

    In reality, if a Redguard has 3k stam recovery, an Imp would have 2.7k.

    Raw damage builds have no Recovery whatsoever be it Stamina or Magicka. If all you build for is one-shotting people with Wrecking Blow then you probably have 800-1000 stam recovery which is nothing, well it's not nothing, but it ain't worth a damn in heated battles.

    Why... why would you do this, though? o.O

    Why would an Imperial suddenly be pigeon-holed into a raw damage build any more than a Redguard because he has 9% less regen and 12% more health + health sustain through Red Diamond?

    I'm not really following here...

    It feels like you're comparing a regen-stacked Redguard to a weapon damage-stacked Imp, which is like.. apples and mangoes.

    I'm pointing out max stats mean nothing and you need sustain to do anything.

    Sustain = recovery.

    Am I making sense now? :confused:

    But this isn't the case. You can't just say regen > max, it's just not true. It's only true up to a point. You only need so much regen, at which point having MORE stamina is strictly better.
  • uso245
    uso245
    ✭✭✭
    Panda244 wrote: »
    Varicite wrote: »
    Panda244 wrote: »
    Varicite wrote: »
    Panda244 wrote: »
    Redguard is vastly superior to Imperial for Stamina builds as they can surpass the Stamina Recovery of an Imperial with ease, and Stamina Recovery is much more important than max Stamina for PvP, PvE, and DPS. You can have 30k Stamina and 600 Recovery, what're you going to do when you run out of Stamina? Die.

    There's no way around it, you need sustain to survive in this game, with no Recovery, you will eventually die. Period.

    In what world does ANY stamina build have 600 recovery though?

    In reality, if a Redguard has 3k stam recovery, an Imp would have 2.7k.

    Raw damage builds have no Recovery whatsoever be it Stamina or Magicka. If all you build for is one-shotting people with Wrecking Blow then you probably have 800-1000 stam recovery which is nothing, well it's not nothing, but it ain't worth a damn in heated battles.

    Why... why would you do this, though? o.O

    Why would an Imperial suddenly be pigeon-holed into a raw damage build any more than a Redguard because he has 9% less regen and 12% more health + health sustain through Red Diamond?

    I'm not really following here...

    It feels like you're comparing a regen-stacked Redguard to a weapon damage-stacked Imp, which is like.. apples and mangoes.

    I'm pointing out max stats mean nothing and you need sustain to do anything.

    Sustain = recovery.

    Am I making sense now? :confused:


    Panda we've been saying sustain for awhile now but it still has not sunk it yet, honestly think they're beyond hope at this point.
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  • eventide03b14a_ESO
    eventide03b14a_ESO
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    ✭✭
    Panda244 wrote: »
    Varicite wrote: »
    Panda244 wrote: »
    Varicite wrote: »
    Panda244 wrote: »
    Redguard is vastly superior to Imperial for Stamina builds as they can surpass the Stamina Recovery of an Imperial with ease, and Stamina Recovery is much more important than max Stamina for PvP, PvE, and DPS. You can have 30k Stamina and 600 Recovery, what're you going to do when you run out of Stamina? Die.

    There's no way around it, you need sustain to survive in this game, with no Recovery, you will eventually die. Period.

    In what world does ANY stamina build have 600 recovery though?

    In reality, if a Redguard has 3k stam recovery, an Imp would have 2.7k.

    Raw damage builds have no Recovery whatsoever be it Stamina or Magicka. If all you build for is one-shotting people with Wrecking Blow then you probably have 800-1000 stam recovery which is nothing, well it's not nothing, but it ain't worth a damn in heated battles.

    Why... why would you do this, though? o.O

    Why would an Imperial suddenly be pigeon-holed into a raw damage build any more than a Redguard because he has 9% less regen and 12% more health + health sustain through Red Diamond?

    I'm not really following here...

    It feels like you're comparing a regen-stacked Redguard to a weapon damage-stacked Imp, which is like.. apples and mangoes.

    I'm pointing out max stats mean nothing and you need sustain to do anything.

    Sustain = recovery.

    Am I making sense now? :confused:
    Dude you really should just give up. These guys are never going to get it and arguing with them is an exercise in futility.
    :trollin:
  • MCMancub
    MCMancub
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    Stamina Regen is only useful up until the point where you are regenerating more stamina than you can effectively use. It's an indirect cap, but it exists. It's also different for every build.

    That being said, having a racial that gives more stamina regen doesn't mean a thing if you can easily reach your indirect cap in other ways (which you can via Champion Points). In this case, having flat stats are better. That's why Imperials are better min/maxers in pve stamina dps.

    EDIT: You could make the argument that Redguards don't need to spend as many Champion Points in Stamina Regen, allowing them to reallocate them elsewhere, but there isn't a single Champion System passive I'd rather have over more health.
    Edited by MCMancub on April 22, 2015 4:47PM
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