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Why is no one pointing out that playing as an Imperial is P2W?
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Dixa✭✭✭✭yes. i def feel the overpower of the imp race when i rolled up a sorc or templar magicka based....
....oh wait, no I didn't.
Then you don't know how to min/max... The Imperial passive of 12% max health means you have to dedicate nothing to health, not even a single attribute point. This allows you to have sufficent health for end game PvE and PvP activities while using all of your attribute points, set bonuses, glyps, etc., for magicka...
That 12% health does not mean some end-game tank gets to not dump all into health. Let's not exaggerate things here.
so a magicka build can now put a few more points into magicka instead of health. they still do not have the +magicka or +regen or +fire or +all elements bonuses from the other races.
it really is balanced well at the end, and I personally know several who like to play stamina based characters that do not like the too-human look of imperials.
pay to win. lol. some people don't understand what that really means. There is not such a distinct advantage someone who plays imperial has over someone who does not - it's not like how so many f2p games sell stuff like the best ammo for your weapons in the cash shop only.1 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's a trade off. Every race has it's strength and weakness. HP is imperials strength. You're pointing out imperial strengths and every other races weakness.
I could just as easily point out imperials weakness and other races strengths.
No no, it's the fact that Imperials have TWO strengths when even the best other races generally only have one.
22% overall stat increase outclasses every single other race by about 10%.
THAT is why they are the min/maxers' race of choice, because having 10% more stats to allocate anywhere of your choosing is a big deal when calculating damage or survivability.
Yes, some magicka-oriented races are better for magicka builds, but for EVERY other build, Imperial is the best choice for the job.
And even for magicka-oriented races, 10% stamina is still pretty nice, as well as 12% more health, which really just equates to 12% more attribute points to spend in magicka while also having higher stamina to dodge / block.
PS) What is an Imperial's weakness, exactly? Not having a regen racial (their 3rd passive is basically a health regen racial that mirrors Redguard's best passive)?4 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭yes. i def feel the overpower of the imp race when i rolled up a sorc or templar magicka based....
....oh wait, no I didn't.
Then you don't know how to min/max... The Imperial passive of 12% max health means you have to dedicate nothing to health, not even a single attribute point. This allows you to have sufficent health for end game PvE and PvP activities while using all of your attribute points, set bonuses, glyps, etc., for magicka...
That 12% health does not mean some end-game tank gets to not dump all into health. Let's not exaggerate things here.
so a magicka build can now put a few more points into magicka instead of health. they still do not have the +magicka or +regen or +fire or +all elements bonuses from the other races.
it really is balanced well at the end, and I personally know several who like to play stamina based characters that do not like the too-human look of imperials.
pay to win. lol. some people don't understand what that really means. There is not such a distinct advantage someone who plays imperial has over someone who does not - it's not like how so many f2p games sell stuff like the best ammo for your weapons in the cash shop only.
I was directly responding to the Magicka based DPS situation. As for tanks, Imperial tanks have more health than anyother race tank... This would be fixed if they reintroduced soft caps.0 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭It's a trade off. Every race has it's strength and weakness. HP is imperials strength. You're pointing out imperial strengths and every other races weakness.
I could just as easily point out imperials weakness and other races strengths.
No no, it's the fact that Imperials have TWO strengths when even the best other races generally only have one.
22% overall stat increase outclasses every single other race by about 10%.
THAT is why they are the min/maxers' race of choice, because having 10% more stats to allocate anywhere of your choosing is a big deal when calculating damage or survivability.
Yes, some magicka-oriented races are better for magicka builds, but for EVERY other build, Imperial is the best choice for the job.
And even for magicka-oriented races, 10% stamina is still pretty nice, as well as 12% more health, which really just equates to 12% more attribute points to spend in magicka while also having higher stamina to dodge / block.
PS) What is an Imperial's weakness, exactly? Not having a regen racial (their 3rd passive is basically a health regen racial that mirrors Redguard's best passive)?
THIS^^ Well put1 -
MCMancub✭✭✭✭It's a trade off. Every race has it's strength and weakness. HP is imperials strength. You're pointing out imperial strengths and every other races weakness.
I could just as easily point out imperials weakness and other races strengths.
No no, it's the fact that Imperials have TWO strengths when even the best other races generally only have one.
22% overall stat increase outclasses every single other race by about 10%.
THAT is why they are the min/maxers' race of choice, because having 10% more stats to allocate anywhere of your choosing is a big deal when calculating damage or survivability.
Yes, some magicka-oriented races are better for magicka builds, but for EVERY other build, Imperial is the best choice for the job.
And even for magicka-oriented races, 10% stamina is still pretty nice, as well as 12% more health, which really just equates to 12% more attribute points to spend in magicka while also having higher stamina to dodge / block.
PS) What is an Imperial's weakness, exactly? Not having a regen racial (their 3rd passive is basically a health regen racial that mirrors Redguard's best passive)?
This is what makes me mad. When I choose to play as a Redguard for a stamina based build, I'm accepting the fact that their weakness is low health. Imperials don't have a weakness for stamina based builds. You get everything you need from the get go.0 -
Chuggernaut✭✭✭Just create a new imperial character and stop begging for a race change. Its so fast to grind a dude to 50 its silly. The v14 grind is a non-issue since vr levels are going away "Soon™"My comrades have returned. I erect the spine of gratitude. You are a hero today. - Bura-Natoo0 -
Kelleton✭✭✭It's a trade off. Every race has it's strength and weakness. HP is imperials strength. You're pointing out imperial strengths and every other races weakness.
I could just as easily point out imperials weakness and other races strengths.
Except for the Redguard "strength" (the one that Imperial doesn't also get) is just Stamina Regen, which is something that everyone can now get plenty of through Champion Points and is even less desirable than Stamina Cost Reduction. I would swap my Redguard Stamina PVE DPS for an Imperial immediately if you offered it to me.
technically everyone can gets more stamina via champ points too...without having to spend a point! Zomg! Buff Imperials people get our passives!
you cant say "people get out passives" via champ points because the passives are on top of champ points....terrible argument0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chuggernaut wrote: »Just create a new imperial character and stop begging for a race change. Its so fast to grind a dude to 50 its silly. The v14 grind is a non-issue since vr levels are going away "Soon™"
No, don't do this.
I did this. I have SO MANY VR toons to level now, because I rerolled when I wanted to try different races.
DO NOT DO THIS.
Just wait for Race Changes to show up in the Crown Store (already announced).0 -
Kelleton✭✭✭It's a trade off. Every race has it's strength and weakness. HP is imperials strength. You're pointing out imperial strengths and every other races weakness.
I could just as easily point out imperials weakness and other races strengths.
22% overall stat increase outclasses every single other race by about 10%.
Yes..pay no attention to the other class's damage increases, or damage mitigation or regen bonuses. /facepalm
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akray21✭✭✭✭✭It's a trade off. Every race has it's strength and weakness. HP is imperials strength. You're pointing out imperial strengths and every other races weakness.
I could just as easily point out imperials weakness and other races strengths.
22% overall stat increase outclasses every single other race by about 10%.
Yes..pay no attention to the other class's damage increases, or damage mitigation or regen bonuses. /facepalm
IMO every race should get a 10% boost to 1 max stat. That would make things more balanced.1 -
People are not complaining probably because they actually want Pay2Win
Do you like to run things in all Khajiit teams? Me too, so don't ever hesitate to contact me in game (@RakshaTheKhajiit, PC NA) if you'd like to be in one of our all Khajiit runs or you need more Khajiit for your runs.0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's a trade off. Every race has it's strength and weakness. HP is imperials strength. You're pointing out imperial strengths and every other races weakness.
I could just as easily point out imperials weakness and other races strengths.
22% overall stat increase outclasses every single other race by about 10%.
Yes..pay no attention to the other class's damage increases, or damage mitigation or regen bonuses. /facepalm
Oh, I am paying full attention to them.
And they don't even come close to comparing to the huge flat % increases that Imp provides.
Regen? Are you serious right now? Do you even PLAY this game at a high level? o.O
Regen is worthless atm thanks to passives / etc, unless you are trying to put together some kind of gimmicky dodge roll build. Except for restore-type regen, like Redguards have. Hey, who else gets one of those? Oh, right, IMPERIALS do.
Damage increases? Altmer is the only one worth even mentioning, and is better for magicka builds. Maybe you didn't read that part of my post because you were too busy hiding your face in your palm. Know what else increases damage, though?
That's right, the 12% more attributes that you can allocate to Magicka now since you don't need to put any points into Health. Or the 10% more stamina on top of the 12% more attributes you can ALSO allocate to Stamina as an Imp, because you don't need to put points into health.
Damage mitigation? ....Nord? Please don't even.
There is a reason that Imperials have always been a min/maxer's wet dream ever since early access, and now that soft caps are no longer keeping them in line, they are far and away the best race for ANY build that is not focused entirely on Magicka.
And even for Magicka builds, they are better than any race that isn't called Altmer or Breton (or Dunmer for Magicka DK only).
I did indeed pay attention to the other races' passives. I also paid attention to how little the vast majority of them contribute when compared to a 22% total stat increase.3 -
MCMancub✭✭✭✭It's a trade off. Every race has it's strength and weakness. HP is imperials strength. You're pointing out imperial strengths and every other races weakness.
I could just as easily point out imperials weakness and other races strengths.
Except for the Redguard "strength" (the one that Imperial doesn't also get) is just Stamina Regen, which is something that everyone can now get plenty of through Champion Points and is even less desirable than Stamina Cost Reduction. I would swap my Redguard Stamina PVE DPS for an Imperial immediately if you offered it to me.
technically everyone can gets more stamina via champ points too...without having to spend a point! Zomg! Buff Imperials people get our passives!
you cant say "people get out passives" via champ points because the passives are on top of champ points....terrible argument
Both a Redguard and an Imperial take the same Champion System passives for the same roll. The difference is that Imperials have more health.
Imperials could even put 23 Champion Points into The Lover (Mooncalf) and get 8.9% stamina regeneration and be strictly better than a Redguard. Sure, the Redguard now has 23 Champion Points, but we aren't given the option to use Champion Points to gain the health lost by not being an Imperial.
So now they have to spend attribute points in health to make up for the difference. But wait, now their stamina is lower. There is no situation in which an Imperial is not strictly better than a Redguard in a stamina build.Edited by MCMancub on April 20, 2015 8:33PM1 -
dietlime✭✭✭✭It's a trade off. Every race has it's strength and weakness. HP is imperials strength. You're pointing out imperial strengths and every other races weakness.
I could just as easily point out imperials weakness and other races strengths.
No no, it's the fact that Imperials have TWO strengths when even the best other races generally only have one.
22% overall stat increase outclasses every single other race by about 10%.
THAT is why they are the min/maxers' race of choice, because having 10% more stats to allocate anywhere of your choosing is a big deal when calculating damage or survivability.
Yes, some magicka-oriented races are better for magicka builds, but for EVERY other build, Imperial is the best choice for the job.
And even for magicka-oriented races, 10% stamina is still pretty nice, as well as 12% more health, which really just equates to 12% more attribute points to spend in magicka while also having higher stamina to dodge / block.
PS) What is an Imperial's weakness, exactly? Not having a regen racial (their 3rd passive is basically a health regen racial that mirrors Redguard's best passive)?
THIS^^ Well put
It is statistically irrefutable.
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Raash✭✭✭✭Lots of imperials in this thread.nerevarine1138 wrote: »Doc! I have to tell you about the future!
Oh, sorry. I thought that we'd time traveled, because this issue has been rehashed to the point of me wanting to throw my computer through the wall.
I think the same about everytime I see people belittle and ridicule topics like this. Why not just provide why you dont agree or simply refrain from posting? Unless, ofc, you´re a troll just like me?
to OP
I can see your point, it kind of is pay to win if one choose to see it like that. Personally I dont think it matters much since i believe everything doesnt really boils down to numbers vs numbers. Timing, positioning and knowledge of when to use and not use skills are in favour over 10% more of a stat (unless of coarse you would face someone with exactly same specc, gear ,playstyle and player skill - but how often does that happen?)
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Cuyler✭✭✭✭✭
✭yes. i def feel the overpower of the imp race when i rolled up a sorc or templar magicka based....
....oh wait, no I didn't.
Then you don't know how to min/max... The Imperial passive of 12% max health means you have to dedicate nothing to health, not even a single attribute point. This allows you to have sufficent health for end game PvE and PvP activities while using all of your attribute points, set bonuses, glyps, etc., for magicka...
You're kind of agreeing with me here, aren't you? You've pointed out a few other viable optionsIt's a trade off. Every race has it's strength and weakness. HP is imperials strength. You're pointing out imperial strengths and every other races weakness.
I could just as easily point out imperials weakness and other races strengths.
22% overall stat increase outclasses every single other race by about 10%.
Yes..pay no attention to the other class's damage increases, or damage mitigation or regen bonuses. /facepalm
Oh, I am paying full attention to them.
And they don't even come close to comparing to the huge flat % increases that Imp provides.
Regen? Are you serious right now? Do you even PLAY this game at a high level? o.O
Regen is worthless atm thanks to passives / etc, unless you are trying to put together some kind of gimmicky dodge roll build. Except for restore-type regen, like Redguards have. Hey, who else gets one of those? Oh, right, IMPERIALS do.
Damage increases? Altmer is the only one worth even mentioning, and is better for magicka builds. Maybe you didn't read that part of my post because you were too busy hiding your face in your palm. Know what else increases damage, though?
That's right, the 12% more attributes that you can allocate to Magicka now since you don't need to put any points into Health. Or the 10% more stamina on top of the 12% more attributes you can ALSO allocate to Stamina as an Imp, because you don't need to put points into health.
Damage mitigation? ....Nord? Please don't even.
There is a reason that Imperials have always been a min/maxer's wet dream ever since early access, and now that soft caps are no longer keeping them in line, they are far and away the best race for ANY build that is not focused entirely on Magicka.
And even for Magicka builds, they are better than any race that isn't called Altmer or Breton (or Dunmer for Magicka DK only).
I did indeed pay attention to the other races' passives. I also paid attention to how little the vast majority of them contribute when compared to a 22% total stat increase.
If you ask what about the other 6 races not mentioned? well....did you expect perfect balance? I sure didn't. It's a pipe dream and some of the ppl here seem to be smoking it today (420
)
Guild: STACK n BURN (gm) PC - NA
CP 810 18 Maxed Characters:
"How hard can u guar?" - Rafishul[/spoiler]0 -
sylviermoone✭✭✭✭✭...P2W....
People keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Co-GM, Angry Unicorn Traders: PC/NA
"Official" Master Merchant Tech Support
and Differently Geared AF
@sylviermoone1 -
glak✭✭✭There was massive QQ when imperial race was pay gated. But that was also when stamina builds mostly sucked. Thus the QQ died down soon after release.
With the health resource nerf in 1.6, the QQ slowly picked up until your thread and boom we're reminded of this pay gate.
Get your pitchforks and popcorn ready!1 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭yes. i def feel the overpower of the imp race when i rolled up a sorc or templar magicka based....
....oh wait, no I didn't.
Then you don't know how to min/max... The Imperial passive of 12% max health means you have to dedicate nothing to health, not even a single attribute point. This allows you to have sufficent health for end game PvE and PvP activities while using all of your attribute points, set bonuses, glyps, etc., for magicka...
You're kind of agreeing with me here, aren't you? You've pointed out a few other viable optionsIt's a trade off. Every race has it's strength and weakness. HP is imperials strength. You're pointing out imperial strengths and every other races weakness.
I could just as easily point out imperials weakness and other races strengths.
22% overall stat increase outclasses every single other race by about 10%.
Yes..pay no attention to the other class's damage increases, or damage mitigation or regen bonuses. /facepalm
Oh, I am paying full attention to them.
And they don't even come close to comparing to the huge flat % increases that Imp provides.
Regen? Are you serious right now? Do you even PLAY this game at a high level? o.O
Regen is worthless atm thanks to passives / etc, unless you are trying to put together some kind of gimmicky dodge roll build. Except for restore-type regen, like Redguards have. Hey, who else gets one of those? Oh, right, IMPERIALS do.
Damage increases? Altmer is the only one worth even mentioning, and is better for magicka builds. Maybe you didn't read that part of my post because you were too busy hiding your face in your palm. Know what else increases damage, though?
That's right, the 12% more attributes that you can allocate to Magicka now since you don't need to put any points into Health. Or the 10% more stamina on top of the 12% more attributes you can ALSO allocate to Stamina as an Imp, because you don't need to put points into health.
Damage mitigation? ....Nord? Please don't even.
There is a reason that Imperials have always been a min/maxer's wet dream ever since early access, and now that soft caps are no longer keeping them in line, they are far and away the best race for ANY build that is not focused entirely on Magicka.
And even for Magicka builds, they are better than any race that isn't called Altmer or Breton (or Dunmer for Magicka DK only).
I did indeed pay attention to the other races' passives. I also paid attention to how little the vast majority of them contribute when compared to a 22% total stat increase.
If you ask what about the other 6 races not mentioned? well....did you expect perfect balance? I sure didn't. It's a pipe dream and some of the ppl here seem to be smoking it today (420 )
The way you worded your post, it seemed as though you were trying to say that Imperials were somehow on equal footing for the magicka-based races, but they aren't.
An Imperial using a magicka build is still WORLDS better than a Breton or Altmer using a stamina build. It's not even a contest.
I was pointing out that overall, Imperial is hands-down the best race. It is better than any other race when it comes to tanking / stamina dps. And it is still very good for magicka builds as well.
You absolutely cannot claim that about Altmer or Bretons, and Dunmer is strictly worse than Imperial for everything outside of Magicka DK. Beyond those, Redguard comes close, but fails miserably when switching to a Magicka build as compared to Imperial.
It is more versatile than other races and has the highest total stat pool. They also have the best health regen racial that outclasses the other health regen racials by a large margin. Mathematically speaking, they are the best race overall.
Now, is this noticeable for every player? Of course not, we are talking about a min/max situation, and in most cases, the average player is honestly not at the level where this difference is a detriment.
But when you are the leading group w/ the fastest times on the leaderboards and want to stay that way, you'd better be darn sure that having 5% more damage through having higher total stats is important.
We can certainly argue about preference, but you can't argue w/ math. And mathematics say that Imperials are better than whatever other race you like, except in certain very niche cases. And at any point that you want to switch from magicka to ANYTHING else, Imperials are better than you. Period.
PS) You never did tell me what an Imperial's weaknesses are. They don't have any. They only have something they are second best at instead of the best, whereas every other race is either mediocre at everything or only excels in a certain kind of build.
Edited by Varicite on April 20, 2015 9:08PM1 -
Athas24✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »I don't think you understand what P2W is. Unlocking a race by purchase is not P2W. You still have to level it up and it really doesn't come with any large advantages over the others. I actually prefer the Breton passives despite owning the Imperial addition.
I completely agree. I have the Imperial Edition and my main is a Breton for both the passives and the look1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I an going to just point out that I die just as much on my Imperial characters as my Dunmer or my Breton.
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Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭bretons and altmers make better mages
khajits and wood elves make better stealth based races
redguards make fantastic stamina builds
nords,and imperials make great tank races.
dark elves make good DKs
argonians and orcs have terrible racial passives
it really depends on one's play style3 -
Endurance✭✭✭Imperial is largely regarded as the superior race in ESO given the passive abilities. What is the only way to be able to play as an Imperial?... That is right, you had to purchase the Imperial Edition of the game which had a higher price tag. This is the definition of P2W (paying money to get a statistical advantage)... ZOS either needs to balance all passives, or give everyone the option at any time to change their race to imperial for free.
Imperial edition and Standard edition were out way before the game was launched, so how exactly is that P2W? you get the option to preorder Standard or Imperial edition, and with those you get access to extra stuff for preordering
if anything is P2W its the crown storeI'm outta here0 -
Cuyler✭✭✭✭✭
✭PS) You never did tell me what an Imperial's weaknesses are. They don't have any. They only have something they are second best at instead of the best, whereas every other race is either mediocre at everything or only excels in a certain kind of build.
Their weakness IS magicka (as compared to altmer, dunmer and Breton)...as you stated when attempting a min/max build.
Guild: STACK n BURN (gm) PC - NA
CP 810 18 Maxed Characters:
"How hard can u guar?" - Rafishul[/spoiler]1 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭PS) You never did tell me what an Imperial's weaknesses are. They don't have any. They only have something they are second best at instead of the best, whereas every other race is either mediocre at everything or only excels in a certain kind of build.
Their weakness IS magicka (as compared to altmer, dunmer and Breton)...as you stated when attempting a min/max build.
You do know that an Imperial can get around +30k max magicka while still reaching +25k health... right? Imperials are still great mages...Edited by akray21 on April 20, 2015 9:24PM0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭bretons and altmers make better mages
khajits and wood elves make better stealth based races
redguards make fantastic stamina builds
nords,and imperials make great tank races.
dark elves make good DKs
argonians and orcs have terrible racial passives
it really depends on one's play style
Bretons and Altmers make better mages ONLY, but Imperials are still right behind them. Imps are MUCH better at stamina builds than these races.
Khajits and Wood Elves make better stealth races for ONE attack. After this, Imperials outclass them in almost every way. ESPECIALLY Khajit. Wood Elves are the best at rolling around, though, I will give them that.
Redguards make worse stamina builds than Imperials damage-wise, but are comparable. Imps are WAY better for magicka builds than Redguards.
Nords and Imperials make great tank races, but Imperial is on top. Period. Nord damage mitigation racial is the only one that is worth anything, putting them far below Imps. For everything.
Dark Elves make good magicka based DKs, but Imperials make good magicka DKs too, and WAY BETTER stamina DKs.
Sure, it depends on one's playstyle. If you never plan to change that playstyle, ever. And even in the best of situations for your preferred race, Imperial is right there on your heels while still having higher health than you.
That is why they are best. ; )
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