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Why is no one pointing out that playing as an Imperial is P2W?
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kgold0✭If you value stamina regen above all else, redguard does it better than imperial. +10% stamina is equal in both. But redguard has +9% in combat stamina regen and adrenaline rush (for my vr2 it's about 500-600 stamina per 5 seconds)
Given the stamina regen in nb shadow line, werewolf stamina regen, medium armor stamina regen, 2h stamina regen, maybe even grim focus and siphoning attacks if you want the stamina just keeps coming.Edited by kgold0 on April 20, 2015 9:29PM0 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭If you value stamina regen above all else, redguard does it better than imperial. +10% stamina is equal in both. But redguard has +9% in combat stamina regen and adrenaline rush (for my vr2 it's about 500-600 stamina per 5 seconds)
10% max health > 9% extra stamina regen.
Red diamond > adrenaline rush1 -
phairdon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What exactly do we win if playing as a imperial?Your immersion is breaking my entitlement. Buff Sorc's. Darkshroud the cremator Death by furRubeus BlackFluffy knight BladesThe Fat PantherPsijic Fungal SausageFlesheater the VileCaspian Rafferty FernsbyArchfiend Warlock PiersThe Black BishopEvil Wizard Lizard (EU)Neberra Vestige Fajeon (EU)Salanis Deathstick (EU)Blood Mage Alchemist (EU)1 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you value stamina regen above all else, redguard does it better than imperial. +10% stamina is equal in both. But redguard has +9% in combat stamina regen and adrenaline rush (for my vr2 it's about 500-600 stamina per 5 seconds)
It's 22% stamina for Imps, because if you are valuing stamina above all else, you have an extra 12% to allocate to stamina that Redguard doesn't.
Adrenaline Rush is their trump card. But an Imperial will outdamage a Redguard due to a higher stamina total, which directly translates into damage.
If regen wasn't SO easy to get right now, I'd value Redguard pretty high as well.
I'm not going to argue w/ math, even though I like Redguards. : P
Edited by Varicite on April 20, 2015 9:32PM1 -
Ace_SiN✭✭✭✭
It's 22% stamina for Imps, because if you are valuing stamina above all else, you have an extra 12% to allocate to stamina that Redguard doesn't.
Adrenaline Rush is their trump card. But an Imperial will outdamage a Redguard due to a higher stamina total, which directly translates into damage.
If regen wasn't SO easy to get right now, I'd value Redguard pretty high as well.
I'm not going to argue w/ math, even though I like Redguards. : P
What are you talking about? Redguard and Imp have the SAME stam passive(10% increase). Imp gets a 12% hp increase where Redguard gets a 9% stam recovery. When you factor in Adrenaline Rush Redguard is the king of stam without question.Edited by Ace_SiN on April 20, 2015 9:39PMKing of Beasts2 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭
It's 22% stamina for Imps, because if you are valuing stamina above all else, you have an extra 12% to allocate to stamina that Redguard doesn't.
Adrenaline Rush is their trump card. But an Imperial will outdamage a Redguard due to a higher stamina total, which directly translates into damage.
If regen wasn't SO easy to get right now, I'd value Redguard pretty high as well.
I'm not going to argue w/ math, even though I like Redguards. : P
What are you talking about? Do you even play the game? Redguard and Imp have the SAME stam passive(10% increase). Imp gets a 12% hp increase where Redguard gets a 9% stam recovery. When you factor in Adrenaline Rush Redguard is the king of stam without question.
Yes, they get a 12% hp increase.
This means they don't need to put points into health to hit the golden 20k(+) that you need for most things in this game.
This means they can put those points into stamina.
This gives them a 22% increase to overall stamina when compared to Redguards, because they are putting ALL of their points in stamina, whereas Redguards have to use points in health if they are planning to not be 2-shot.
I thought I made this clear, but I guess not.
Adrenaline Rush is VERY nice, certainly, but the game has changed. Regen isn't valued as highly in racial passives, because EVERY race can reach a very good level of stamina regen. My Redguard stamblade is NEVER low enough on stam for Adrenaline Rush to matter.
But my Imperial stamblade is always thankful for Red Diamond procs. Red Diamond can't be replicated by anything in the Champion System.1 -
Folkb✭✭✭✭✭Someone had an amazing idea where at character creation you didn't have base racial skills but picked your own out of a pool of many. I really hope they implement such a thing.Edited by Folkb on April 20, 2015 9:43PM2
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Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭Someone had an amazing idea where 91st character creation you didn't have base racial skills but picked your own out of a pool of many. I really hope they implement such a thing.
I wouldn't mind seeing something like this.
Choice in a game that was marketed as being about choice? For shame!0 -
Xjcon✭✭✭✭✭Imperial is largely regarded as the superior race in ESO given the passive abilities. What is the only way to be able to play as an Imperial?... That is right, you had to purchase the Imperial Edition of the game which had a higher price tag. This is the definition of P2W (paying money to get a statistical advantage)... ZOS either needs to balance all passives, or give everyone the option at any time to change their race to imperial for free.
You sir deserve a promotion to Captain Obvious, Thanks for your service.Briza Do'urdenx V16 Dunmer DK
Jcon V16 Orc DK
Vierna Do'urdenx V16 Bosmer NB
Jarlaxle Baenrex V16 Dunmer NB0 -
I honestly do not see the huge deal here. I have the Imperial addition and only have one Imperial character. Each race has their own benefits. Though it does give a slight edge in some play styles (as does every race) the amount of time put into getting gear or the player's skill greatly outweighs the benefits of any race. If you are in PVP and you fight someone with the exact gear, level class etc there is no say on who is going to win just based off race. The race edge is almost trivial when it comes to this. You can be an imperial and still suck at playing and fail consistently. Being an Imperial doesn't make you some super powered master race that can't be killed.
Races are supposed to have special abilities unique to their people, that is how elder scrolls is. The way it seems to me is that you want it so that the races only matter physically and everyone has the same skills, which is unrealistic. As for having to pay for it I agree that it should have been made available to everyone. I agree that it should not have been locked behind a pay wall, but because they did I say that they keep it that way. The majority of the people who bought the Imperial addition didn't get it so that they could get a mud crab or a horse. The majority of us did it for the Imperial Class (at least those who did it digitally).
To demand that they release the Imperial class for free would be a spit in the face of those who spent real money to get the class. Now if they did make it free and gave those of us who had payed for the Imperial edition a sum of Crowns that they seem fair then I would be okay with the idea of giving the class to everyone.
Those of us who decided to spend the extra cash for a special edition should not be chastised because people don't want to spend a little more money. If you really have such an issue with it then buy the Imperial Edition for yourself. Because chances are nothing is going to be done about the Imperials skills.2 -
Kelleton✭✭✭
It's 22% stamina for Imps, because if you are valuing stamina above all else, you have an extra 12% to allocate to stamina that Redguard doesn't.
Adrenaline Rush is their trump card. But an Imperial will outdamage a Redguard due to a higher stamina total, which directly translates into damage.
If regen wasn't SO easy to get right now, I'd value Redguard pretty high as well.
I'm not going to argue w/ math, even though I like Redguards. : P
What are you talking about? Do you even play the game? Redguard and Imp have the SAME stam passive(10% increase). Imp gets a 12% hp increase where Redguard gets a 9% stam recovery. When you factor in Adrenaline Rush Redguard is the king of stam without question.
Yes, they get a 12% hp increase.
This means they don't need to put points into health to hit the golden 20k(+) that you need for most things in this game.
This means they can put those points into stamina.
This gives them a 22% increase to overall stamina when compared to Redguards, because they are putting ALL of their points in stamina, whereas Redguards have to use points in health if they are planning to not be 2-shot.
I thought I made this clear, but I guess not.
Adrenaline Rush is VERY nice, certainly, but the game has changed. Regen isn't valued as highly in racial passives, because EVERY race can reach a very good level of stamina regen. My Redguard stamblade is NEVER low enough on stam for Adrenaline Rush to matter.
But my Imperial stamblade is always thankful for Red Diamond procs. Red Diamond can't be replicated by anything in the Champion System.
Sigh...this is an argument of a person who either doesn't want to hear the truth or knows he is wrong and makes a ridiculous claim to "prove" he is right1 -
Ace_SiN✭✭✭✭Yes, they get a 12% hp increase.
This means they don't need to put points into health to hit the golden 20k(+) that you need for most things in this game.
This means they can put those points into stamina.
This gives them a 22% increase to overall stamina when compared to Redguards, because they are putting ALL of their points in stamina, whereas Redguards have to use points in health if they are planning to not be 2-shot.
Or you can just eat food that gives hp and still hit the ~20k hp mark while still dumping everything into stam. Imp is the most balanced choice, but it doesn't beat Redguard as the king of stam.Adrenaline Rush is VERY nice, certainly, but the game has changed. Regen isn't valued as highly in racial passives, because EVERY race can reach a very good level of stamina regen. My Redguard stamblade is NEVER low enough on stam for Adrenaline Rush to matter.
Of course you're never that low on your Redguard BECAUSE of Adrenaline rush. It's effectively a flat cost reduction every 3 seconds for all melee hits. My Redguard gets 800 stam back from Adrenaline Rush. That's a huge cost reduction for a melee hit while still having your stam recovery tick every 2 seconds.King of Beasts0 -
Sacadon✭✭✭✭✭
The bolded section of your comment is inaccurate. Yes Imperial has strong passives, but for some playstyles and goals Altmer or Breton could be far superior.Imperial is largely regarded as the superior race in ESO given the passive abilities. What is the only way to be able to play as an Imperial?... That is right, you had to purchase the Imperial Edition of the game which had a higher price tag. This is the definition of P2W (paying money to get a statistical advantage)... ZOS either needs to balance all passives, or give everyone the option at any time to change their race to imperial for free.
That does not make the bold inaccurate... Imperial is still thought of by many as the superior race in ESO.
Largely and many have different meanings to me. Largely means most to me, and many could mean anything really. The race may be close to superior for tanking, but it's not when you want a high spell resist character. I'm intentionally avoiding a pay to win discussion. Instead I wanted to be clear that imperial is not the most powerful choice for all play styles.Edited by Sacadon on April 20, 2015 10:22PM1 -
Kelleton✭✭✭It's a trade off. Every race has it's strength and weakness. HP is imperials strength. You're pointing out imperial strengths and every other races weakness.
I could just as easily point out imperials weakness and other races strengths.
22% overall stat increase outclasses every single other race by about 10%.
Yes..pay no attention to the other class's damage increases, or damage mitigation or regen bonuses. /facepalm
Oh, I am paying full attention to them.
And they don't even come close to comparing to the huge flat % increases that Imp provides.
Regen? Are you serious right now? Do you even PLAY this game at a high level? o.O
Regen is worthless atm thanks to passives".
funny...I keep hearing people brag about their 4k stam regen...I never hear people bragging about their total stam
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Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, they get a 12% hp increase.
This means they don't need to put points into health to hit the golden 20k(+) that you need for most things in this game.
This means they can put those points into stamina.
This gives them a 22% increase to overall stamina when compared to Redguards, because they are putting ALL of their points in stamina, whereas Redguards have to use points in health if they are planning to not be 2-shot.
Or you can just eat food that gives hp and still hit the ~20k hp mark while still dumping everything into stam. Imp is the most balanced choice, but it doesn't beat Redguard as the king of stam.Adrenaline Rush is VERY nice, certainly, but the game has changed. Regen isn't valued as highly in racial passives, because EVERY race can reach a very good level of stamina regen. My Redguard stamblade is NEVER low enough on stam for Adrenaline Rush to matter.
Of course you're never that low on your Redguard BECAUSE of Adrenaline rush. It's effectively a flat cost reduction every 3 seconds for all melee hits. My Redguard gets 800 stam back from Adrenaline Rush. That's a huge cost reduction for a melee hit while still having your stam recovery tick every 2 seconds.
I'm never that low on my Imperial either.
See, the thing you seem to be neglecting about regen mechanics is this:
Once you have enough regen to comfortably spam your skills, and have a bit of practice at resource management, having MORE regen doesn't do anything for you. You'll just have a surplus of stamina that you can't use fast enough for it to matter.
This is NEVER the case when it comes to having a higher stamina POOL. A higher stamina pool will ALWAYS be more damage than a lower pool, because of the way damage is calculated.
If my Redguard gets back 3.5k stamina every 2 seconds (w/ AR passive), but my Imp gets back 2.7k stamina every 2 seconds and NEITHER comes close to running out of stamina, then what does a regen passive really matter? It doesn't. It's just overkill, which is what I was trying to explain.
PS) Food will not get you to 20k as a Redguard w/out set bonuses that will completely gimp your damage compared to other set bonuses. All things equal, an Imperial who knows how to min/max their stats and has a high enough stam regen will ALWAYS do more damage than a Redguard. That's just the way it is...2 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's a trade off. Every race has it's strength and weakness. HP is imperials strength. You're pointing out imperial strengths and every other races weakness.
I could just as easily point out imperials weakness and other races strengths.
22% overall stat increase outclasses every single other race by about 10%.
Yes..pay no attention to the other class's damage increases, or damage mitigation or regen bonuses. /facepalm
Oh, I am paying full attention to them.
And they don't even come close to comparing to the huge flat % increases that Imp provides.
Regen? Are you serious right now? Do you even PLAY this game at a high level? o.O
Regen is worthless atm thanks to passives".
funny...I keep hearing people brag about their 4k stam regen...I never hear people bragging about their total stam
Do you spend 4k stam every 2 seconds? You probably don't, unless you're built to spam dodge rolls.
Do you know what you have to GIVE UP for 4k stam regen, though? Damage. And health. So it's probably a good thing you're built to run away from people.
/shrug0 -
Panda244✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anyone who thinks Imperial is P2W is too poor to afford them.
End of discussion.
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NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rofl at the OP...another P2W thread. Smh-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
SHADOW2KK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Orcs run faster than Imperials.
Beat that.
/sarcasm
Aye its their bandy legs...
:POnce I was a lamb, playing in a green field. Then the wolves came. Now I am an eagle and I fly in a different universe.
Been taking heads since TeS 3 Morrowind..
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Been playing since Beta and Early Access0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Altmer Master Race.
Imperial was good for two things. Bank Mule and Free White Horse mule. Now it isn't even useful for that.Edited by Ezareth on April 20, 2015 10:49PMPermanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
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UrQuan✭✭✭✭✭
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I've got an orc alt sitting around that I really should level. The intent behind him was to put him in a full set of medium armour with Well-Fitted and Stamina enchants (using whatever sets give the best Stamina boosts) and use his racial passives, medium armour passives, and Rapid Maneuver to just run like the wind. This is clearly not an optimal build - I just really want to see just how fast I can get him to run, and for how long he can keep it up. Naturally all of his attribute points would be in Stamina too.Orcs run faster than Imperials.
Beat that.
/sarcasm
Someone stole my sweetrollCaius Drusus Imperial DK (DC)
Bragg Ironhand Orc Temp (DC)
Neesha Stalks-Shadows Argonian NB (EP)
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Fevassa Dunmer DK (EP)
Manut Redguard Temp (AD)
Tylera the Summoner Altmer Sorc (EP)
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Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭Altmer Master Race.
Imperial was good for two things. Bank Mule and Free White Horse mule. Now it isn't even useful for that.
I've always been curious about something:
Does Altmer Elemental Talent passive work on each "hit" of Crushing Shock, giving it a 12% damage boost (+4% damage for each damage component) instead of the standard 4% that single-hit attacks would get?
My Sorc is a Breton, and I can't test this out w/out deleting a toon.
I did say that Altmer was the only racial damage passive worth mentioning, though. ; )0 -
Kelleton✭✭✭It's a trade off. Every race has it's strength and weakness. HP is imperials strength. You're pointing out imperial strengths and every other races weakness.
I could just as easily point out imperials weakness and other races strengths.
22% overall stat increase outclasses every single other race by about 10%.
Yes..pay no attention to the other class's damage increases, or damage mitigation or regen bonuses. /facepalm
Oh, I am paying full attention to them.
And they don't even come close to comparing to the huge flat % increases that Imp provides.
Regen? Are you serious right now? Do you even PLAY this game at a high level? o.O
Regen is worthless atm thanks to passives".
funny...I keep hearing people brag about their 4k stam regen...I never hear people bragging about their total stam
Do you spend 4k stam every 2 seconds? You probably don't, unless you're built to spam dodge rolls.
Do you know what you have to GIVE UP for 4k stam regen, though? Damage. And health. So it's probably a good thing you're built to run away from people.
/shrug
you must be a PVEer0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's a trade off. Every race has it's strength and weakness. HP is imperials strength. You're pointing out imperial strengths and every other races weakness.
I could just as easily point out imperials weakness and other races strengths.
22% overall stat increase outclasses every single other race by about 10%.
Yes..pay no attention to the other class's damage increases, or damage mitigation or regen bonuses. /facepalm
Oh, I am paying full attention to them.
And they don't even come close to comparing to the huge flat % increases that Imp provides.
Regen? Are you serious right now? Do you even PLAY this game at a high level? o.O
Regen is worthless atm thanks to passives".
funny...I keep hearing people brag about their 4k stam regen...I never hear people bragging about their total stam
Do you spend 4k stam every 2 seconds? You probably don't, unless you're built to spam dodge rolls.
Do you know what you have to GIVE UP for 4k stam regen, though? Damage. And health. So it's probably a good thing you're built to run away from people.
/shrug
you must be a PVEer
I don't spend 4k stamina every 2 seconds in PvP. Sometimes I use a burst of stamina followed by magicka, use light attacks at times, and even heavies when I have the opportunity.
I don't need 4k stam recovery unless I am dodge-rolling across the map or in the middle of a zerg that is trying to focus me.
I dunno, maybe I just know how to manage my resources. <.<1 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭lonewolf0052 wrote: »I honestly do not see the huge deal here. I have the Imperial addition and only have one Imperial character. Each race has their own benefits. Though it does give a slight edge in some play styles (as does every race) the amount of time put into getting gear or the player's skill greatly outweighs the benefits of any race.
How do Argonians fit into your view?
0 -
jcasini222ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭Orc opinion here. You can sprint surprisingly far, used to be further and faster, but that was brought down. I used to be able to run along horses with ease, it must have made people wonder. So yea I usually don't use a horse when questing. The addition of a dam boost on 'charge' attacks is meh.
Its certainly a very unique passive. Swift Is nearly useless but fun-ish for giggles.0
