Stop blaiming each other

eventide03b14a_ESO · April 2015

Jauriel wrote: »

And then again the same is true that the game has the potential to lag and some players have figured out how to exacerbate that lag to turn the tide when it suits them. This has been observed, reported and claimed as well. Bragged about even.

Dozens of pvp devotees, myself including, have come here and claimed that even in large scale battles they experience little to no lag. Yet in 12v12 or the like against very specific players they lag to death or crash to desktop. Should these claims be totally discounted and ridiculed in favor of your vanilla "one size fits all" explanation for the lag?

That's ZOS' responsibility to fix that problem though. Even if players are intentionally trying to lag the server or cause it to crash; it's not something they should be able to do. It's absurd to blame players for using mechanics created by ZOS.

Jauriel · April 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Jauriel wrote: »

And then again the same is true that the game has the potential to lag and some players have figured out how to exacerbate that lag to turn the tide when it suits them. This has been observed, reported and claimed as well. Bragged about even.

Dozens of pvp devotees, myself including, have come here and claimed that even in large scale battles they experience little to no lag. Yet in 12v12 or the like against very specific players they lag to death or crash to desktop. Should these claims be totally discounted and ridiculed in favor of your vanilla "one size fits all" explanation for the lag?

That's ZOS' responsibility to fix that problem though. Even if players are intentionally trying to lag the server or cause it to crash; it's not something they should be able to do. It's absurd to blame players for using mechanics created by ZOS.

There is nothing wrong with holding people accountable for their own behavior. You could say society has created "mechanics" which give people the ability to go to a bar, get drunk and wipe out a mother and her 4 children in a mini van. Do you blame society, the bar, the road, the booze or the drunk himself? If you blame anyone but the drunk you need to check your own integrity. I recognize this is an extreme analogy but I am making it extreme to provoke thought. This is a game we all share and those abusing it need to be held to a higher standard or they will ruin it for everyone.

Earendal · April 2015

Rylana wrote: »

None of the reds were taking damage

Havoc heals OP.

Rylana · April 2015

Earendal wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

None of the reds were taking damage

Havoc heals OP.

No, as in hits werent even registering.

Sphinx2318 · April 2015

Jauriel wrote: »

And then again the same is true that the game has the potential to lag and some players have figured out how to exacerbate that lag to turn the tide when it suits them. This has been observed, reported and claimed as well. Bragged about even.

Dozens of pvp devotees, myself including, have come here and claimed that even in large scale battles they experience little to no lag. Yet in 12v12 or the like against very specific players they lag to death or crash to desktop. Should these claims be totally discounted and ridiculed in favor of your vanilla "one size fits all" explanation for the lag?

@Jauriel funny to see you mention "very specific players"..... I do believe you also have your own skeletons in your closet?? Perhaps it best if we just swept such complaints back under the rug?

How about this: certain "very specific players" know how to properly PvP. The tactics used for winning group fights unfortunately creates lag. Lets not blame the players but instead the server. Nobody likes the lag....it is an unfortunate evil and side effect of playing the game to win.

NukeAllTheThings · April 2015

Rylana wrote: »

xDOVAHKIINx wrote: »

People just want to give up a reason to justify their losses. Usually aimed at 2-3 EP guilds, which at the same time spawned "Tin-Foil hat theories" and a huge resentment. And all the while forgetting that the true culprit for lag is ZOS, like i read earlier "Blaming players for lag is only giving ZOS an out."

Reasonable people know its not players, the rest are daft.

I will counter this by saying that in the past ive had both good victories, and deserved losses vs each and every one of those EP groups that get accused of things.

Some of them I dont like personally, some of them I am actually on decent terms with.

None of them are so poor at the game that they would need to crutch on an exploit to win. There are a few bad eggs among those groups that everyone knows both can and will use whatever available cheat they can get their hands on to win and then talk massive trash about how epix leet they are. It wasnt until the last oh two months or so it became completely obvious which few those are, because when those specific individuals are not around, hey its a clean fight, win or lose. You can tell those fights contain no cheating.

But the others do. Over and over. And we have all seen it. So just stop man. This constant damage control incredulity is tiresome.

One week it is ZOS' fault, the next week it is a certain group in EP's fault for all the lag.

Rylana · April 2015

NukeAllTheThings wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

xDOVAHKIINx wrote: »

People just want to give up a reason to justify their losses. Usually aimed at 2-3 EP guilds, which at the same time spawned "Tin-Foil hat theories" and a huge resentment. And all the while forgetting that the true culprit for lag is ZOS, like i read earlier "Blaming players for lag is only giving ZOS an out."

Reasonable people know its not players, the rest are daft.

I will counter this by saying that in the past ive had both good victories, and deserved losses vs each and every one of those EP groups that get accused of things.

Some of them I dont like personally, some of them I am actually on decent terms with.

None of them are so poor at the game that they would need to crutch on an exploit to win. There are a few bad eggs among those groups that everyone knows both can and will use whatever available cheat they can get their hands on to win and then talk massive trash about how epix leet they are. It wasnt until the last oh two months or so it became completely obvious which few those are, because when those specific individuals are not around, hey its a clean fight, win or lose. You can tell those fights contain no cheating.

But the others do. Over and over. And we have all seen it. So just stop man. This constant damage control incredulity is tiresome.

One week it is ZOS' fault, the next week it is a certain group in EP's fault for all the lag.

Nope. There is server lag, and there is certain groups lag.

In server lag, no one takes damage on either side. Everything locks up for everyone.

In that groups case, they can do anything they want to, its just everyone else around them thats screwed.

Your move.

RinaldoGandolphi · April 2015

Jauriel wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with holding people accountable for their own behavior. You could say society has created "mechanics" which give people the ability to go to a bar, get drunk and wipe out a mother and her 4 children in a mini van. Do you blame society, the bar, the road, the booze or the drunk himself? If you blame anyone but the drunk you need to check your own integrity. I recognize this is an extreme analogy but I am making it extreme to provoke thought. This is a game we all share and those abusing it need to be held to a higher standard or they will ruin it for everyone.

@Jauriel I have always said the problem is ZOS don't police this nonsense enough.

See ZOS needs to get one of these, a really big heavy one

And needs to bring it down on people HARD that do this stuff to ruin the game for everyone else.. Using skills to lag the server intentionally is a permanent ban offense

Read the TOS

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service?q=170623f2-e0d1-4759-a642-82f9279f2a99&p=38497df9-909d-40ae-b9a3-4e96a59385fc&ts=1428947549&c=zenimaxonline&e=live&rt=Safetynet&h=e12f7ca36a27bb44451a5f63b9d2c4db

9. Your Use of the Services

You may not participate, take part in, initiate, or engage in actions that impose an unreasonable or disproportionate load on the infrastructure hosting the Game(s) and/or Services.

8. Rules of Conduct

Engage in disruptive behavior in chat areas, game areas, forums, or any other area or aspect of the Services. Examples of disruptive behavior include, but is not limited to, conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay

All this lagging that is being done, These folks should have been banned months ago, the TOS says they should be banned, why they are not, is anyone's guess.

Tintinabula · April 2015

How exactly does someone cause lag for a specific faction and not their own?

NukeAllTheThings · April 2015

Rylana wrote: »

NukeAllTheThings wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

xDOVAHKIINx wrote: »

People just want to give up a reason to justify their losses. Usually aimed at 2-3 EP guilds, which at the same time spawned "Tin-Foil hat theories" and a huge resentment. And all the while forgetting that the true culprit for lag is ZOS, like i read earlier "Blaming players for lag is only giving ZOS an out."

Reasonable people know its not players, the rest are daft.

I will counter this by saying that in the past ive had both good victories, and deserved losses vs each and every one of those EP groups that get accused of things.

Some of them I dont like personally, some of them I am actually on decent terms with.

None of them are so poor at the game that they would need to crutch on an exploit to win. There are a few bad eggs among those groups that everyone knows both can and will use whatever available cheat they can get their hands on to win and then talk massive trash about how epix leet they are. It wasnt until the last oh two months or so it became completely obvious which few those are, because when those specific individuals are not around, hey its a clean fight, win or lose. You can tell those fights contain no cheating.

But the others do. Over and over. And we have all seen it. So just stop man. This constant damage control incredulity is tiresome.

One week it is ZOS' fault, the next week it is a certain group in EP's fault for all the lag.

Nope. There is server lag, and there is certain groups lag.

In server lag, no one takes damage on either side. Everything locks up for everyone.

In that groups case, they can do anything they want to, its just everyone else around them thats screwed.

Your move.

The lag you complain abut is the same, you just need an excuse. I was in the fight where Picard got dethroned that you conveniently call "server lag" and no one can take damage. You are flat out wrong because people were being killed in that fight, 5 of them at my hands then I was killed. The fact that you don't think anyone takes damage gives me a lot of insight into why you choose to believe that you are always being cheated.

Jauriel · April 2015

Sphinx2318 wrote: »

Jauriel wrote: »

And then again the same is true that the game has the potential to lag and some players have figured out how to exacerbate that lag to turn the tide when it suits them. This has been observed, reported and claimed as well. Bragged about even.

Dozens of pvp devotees, myself including, have come here and claimed that even in large scale battles they experience little to no lag. Yet in 12v12 or the like against very specific players they lag to death or crash to desktop. Should these claims be totally discounted and ridiculed in favor of your vanilla "one size fits all" explanation for the lag?

@Jauriel funny to see you mention "very specific players"..... I do believe you also have your own skeletons in your closet?? Perhaps it best if we just swept such complaints back under the rug?

How about this: certain "very specific players" know how to properly PvP. The tactics used for winning group fights unfortunately creates lag. Lets not blame the players but instead the server. Nobody likes the lag....it is an unfortunate evil and side effect of playing the game to win.

Ok, Brandon. My only skeletons are the ones you put there.

frozywozy · April 2015

Jauriel wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Jauriel wrote: »

And then again the same is true that the game has the potential to lag and some players have figured out how to exacerbate that lag to turn the tide when it suits them. This has been observed, reported and claimed as well. Bragged about even.

Dozens of pvp devotees, myself including, have come here and claimed that even in large scale battles they experience little to no lag. Yet in 12v12 or the like against very specific players they lag to death or crash to desktop. Should these claims be totally discounted and ridiculed in favor of your vanilla "one size fits all" explanation for the lag?

That's ZOS' responsibility to fix that problem though. Even if players are intentionally trying to lag the server or cause it to crash; it's not something they should be able to do. It's absurd to blame players for using mechanics created by ZOS.

There is nothing wrong with holding people accountable for their own behavior. You could say society has created "mechanics" which give people the ability to go to a bar, get drunk and wipe out a mother and her 4 children in a mini van. Do you blame society, the bar, the road, the booze or the drunk himself? If you blame anyone but the drunk you need to check your own integrity. I recognize this is an extreme analogy but I am making it extreme to provoke thought. This is a game we all share and those abusing it need to be held to a higher standard or they will ruin it for everyone.

Your point isn't valid.

It is not written anywhere in the game rules that players must use aoe abilities at a certain degree. Anyone is free to use all abilities given as much as they see it fit without any distinction.

Abusing a woman and her children is strictly forbidden by law.

The only ressource we have, as group leaders, is to make sure that people in our group don't spam ultimates like crazy during intense periods of lag to help the server catching up.

I experimented it alot last weekend as I was leading an important group. During a big fight at Aleswell on flags, I would do a count down 3-2-1 and then ask my group to totally stop casting and to move to the next flag for 10 seconds and then restart casting to help the server catching up in the calculation process. I also strictly asked to press the ultimate button only once every 20 seconds. We were a group of 15 against 40-50 DC so it didn't change much. DC spammed meteor probably 200times and dropped 50 banners during that 10 minutes battle.

If every group lead use this strategy and ask their group to totally stop all casts and moderate their ultimate spam, I'm pretty sure it will help to increase performances in Cyrodiil.

Remember, even tho you see your character casting 50 meteors during 1 minute, or 10 banners in a row, only one register in the end so you won't deal more damage. The only thing you are doing is asking the server more ressources to process the animation and the particles on all the clients of all the players standing there.

Agrippa_Invisus · April 2015

Jauriel wrote: »

Sphinx2318 wrote: »

Jauriel wrote: »

And then again the same is true that the game has the potential to lag and some players have figured out how to exacerbate that lag to turn the tide when it suits them. This has been observed, reported and claimed as well. Bragged about even.

Dozens of pvp devotees, myself including, have come here and claimed that even in large scale battles they experience little to no lag. Yet in 12v12 or the like against very specific players they lag to death or crash to desktop. Should these claims be totally discounted and ridiculed in favor of your vanilla "one size fits all" explanation for the lag?

@Jauriel funny to see you mention "very specific players"..... I do believe you also have your own skeletons in your closet?? Perhaps it best if we just swept such complaints back under the rug?

How about this: certain "very specific players" know how to properly PvP. The tactics used for winning group fights unfortunately creates lag. Lets not blame the players but instead the server. Nobody likes the lag....it is an unfortunate evil and side effect of playing the game to win.

Ok, Brandon. My only skeletons are the ones you out there.

*starts heating up the popcorn*

This should be good.

Jauriel · April 2015

Tintinabula wrote: »

How exactly does someone cause lag for a specific faction and not their own?

Why do you keep asking this question? Are you anticipating a different response at some point? When a group spams to cause lag they lag everyone, even themselves. But it is a win win for them. Case in point on 4/2 when someone crashed all of us to desktop TWICE at Chalman on TB. They also crashed a lot of their own team and I am sure some are unwitting. But their crashing resulted in blue not taking Chalman-so do you think they really care? Chal was saved and that's all that matters.

eventide03b14a_ESO · April 2015

Jauriel wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Jauriel wrote: »

And then again the same is true that the game has the potential to lag and some players have figured out how to exacerbate that lag to turn the tide when it suits them. This has been observed, reported and claimed as well. Bragged about even.

Dozens of pvp devotees, myself including, have come here and claimed that even in large scale battles they experience little to no lag. Yet in 12v12 or the like against very specific players they lag to death or crash to desktop. Should these claims be totally discounted and ridiculed in favor of your vanilla "one size fits all" explanation for the lag?

That's ZOS' responsibility to fix that problem though. Even if players are intentionally trying to lag the server or cause it to crash; it's not something they should be able to do. It's absurd to blame players for using mechanics created by ZOS.

There is nothing wrong with holding people accountable for their own behavior. You could say society has created "mechanics" which give people the ability to go to a bar, get drunk and wipe out a mother and her 4 children in a mini van. Do you blame society, the bar, the road, the booze or the drunk himself? If you blame anyone but the drunk you need to check your own integrity. I recognize this is an extreme analogy but I am making it extreme to provoke thought. This is a game we all share and those abusing it need to be held to a higher standard or they will ruin it for everyone.

Okay sure, except the initial example of players doing it on purpose is probably not as common as people are led to believe. I have never been in a guild that did that nor have I personally heard of anyone actually doing that. Maybe there was a couple examples, but if it's in fact something that's possible to do I'm sure that it's usually unintentional.

Jauriel · April 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Jauriel wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Jauriel wrote: »

And then again the same is true that the game has the potential to lag and some players have figured out how to exacerbate that lag to turn the tide when it suits them. This has been observed, reported and claimed as well. Bragged about even.

Dozens of pvp devotees, myself including, have come here and claimed that even in large scale battles they experience little to no lag. Yet in 12v12 or the like against very specific players they lag to death or crash to desktop. Should these claims be totally discounted and ridiculed in favor of your vanilla "one size fits all" explanation for the lag?

That's ZOS' responsibility to fix that problem though. Even if players are intentionally trying to lag the server or cause it to crash; it's not something they should be able to do. It's absurd to blame players for using mechanics created by ZOS.

There is nothing wrong with holding people accountable for their own behavior. You could say society has created "mechanics" which give people the ability to go to a bar, get drunk and wipe out a mother and her 4 children in a mini van. Do you blame society, the bar, the road, the booze or the drunk himself? If you blame anyone but the drunk you need to check your own integrity. I recognize this is an extreme analogy but I am making it extreme to provoke thought. This is a game we all share and those abusing it need to be held to a higher standard or they will ruin it for everyone.

Okay sure, except the initial example of players doing it on purpose is probably not as common as people are led to believe. I have never been in a guild that did that nor have I personally heard of anyone actually doing that. Maybe there was a couple examples, but if it's in fact something that's possible to do I'm sure that it's usually unintentional.

Fair enough. But I HAVE been in Ts and in a guild when it was done. I saw it work with my own eyes. Except at that time I was an unwitting noob and was totally naive at the time. Said person rallying his crew to do it defected and now the guild we suspected he joined are the ones everyone on here accuses and is the most frequently accused of griefing. This may seem like circumstantial evidence and perhaps it is but can you understand why someone like me (who knows it can be done and how) laughs at the pathetic denials here? What's being done isn't sophisticated or high tech. The person whom I suspect started it isn't even that bright.

Agrippa_Invisus · April 2015

Jauriel wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

How exactly does someone cause lag for a specific faction and not their own?

Why do you keep asking this question? Are you anticipating a different response at some point? When a group spams to cause lag they lag everyone, even themselves. But it is a win win for them. Case in point on 4/2 when someone crashed all of us to desktop TWICE at Chalman on TB. They also crashed a lot of their own team and I am sure some are unwitting. But their crashing resulted in blue not taking Chalman-so do you think they really care? Chal was saved and that's all that matters.

I was actually there at one of those fights.

I was solo in the Thornblade zone, trying to work on my solo skills (which are awful), when I saw Chalman light up. I ran there and arrived just as the siege on the front porch of the inner was starting to decay from being left out. I raced onto the front flag (nave) and saw the DC all on the back flag. I deployed the only fire siege I had on my quick bar, a fire treb, as I hadn't any ballistae at the time and hadn't restocked recently.

Just as I got the "bird's eye" perspective from the treb, I saw the Emperor's team step in the eastern postern of the Chalman inner and start rushing the flag. Multiple meteors went off on that back flag just as I shotgunned a fire treb shot into the flag room. Instadeath for everyone in there. I'm not sure who fired the meteors (but I can guess from the results who did the majority of them). I didn't see anything untowards, though.

There was a graphics framerate drop from more than one meteor going off at once. Wykkyd's also showed PR over 240 for a second before it settled.

At the same time, I didn't see the EP team or DC team do anything that wasn't outside the normal game mechanics. They just played the game and the game wasn't up to the challenge.

Jauriel · April 2015

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Jauriel wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

How exactly does someone cause lag for a specific faction and not their own?

Why do you keep asking this question? Are you anticipating a different response at some point? When a group spams to cause lag they lag everyone, even themselves. But it is a win win for them. Case in point on 4/2 when someone crashed all of us to desktop TWICE at Chalman on TB. They also crashed a lot of their own team and I am sure some are unwitting. But their crashing resulted in blue not taking Chalman-so do you think they really care? Chal was saved and that's all that matters.

I was actually there at one of those fights.

I was solo in the Thornblade zone, trying to work on my solo skills (which are awful), when I saw Chalman light up. I ran there and arrived just as the siege on the front porch of the inner was starting to decay from being left out. I raced onto the front flag (nave) and saw the DC all on the back flag. I deployed the only fire siege I had on my quick bar, a fire treb, as I hadn't any ballistae at the time and hadn't restocked recently.

Just as I got the "bird's eye" perspective from the treb, I saw the Emperor's team step in the eastern postern of the Chalman inner and start rushing the flag. Multiple meteors went off on that back flag just as I shotgunned a fire treb shot into the flag room. Instadeath for everyone in there. I'm not sure who fired the meteors (but I can guess from the results who did the majority of them). I didn't see anything untowards, though.

There was a graphics framerate drop from more than one meteor going off at once. Wykkyd's also showed PR over 240 for a second before it settled.

At the same time, I didn't see the EP team or DC team do anything that wasn't outside the normal game mechanics. They just played the game and the game wasn't up to the challenge.

AGAIN, what makes you think you can see what all players are doing at all times? Are your eyes in every tower and every corner of the keep? And honestly we are talking about two different battles. When we ALL crashed to desktop it was the second we stacked the back flag. There was no meteors and virtually no enemies in sight. As far as population goes it wasn't even that congested. It was average. I have been in far worse with minimal lag and zero crashing. But fine have it your way. Any explanation as to why we all crashed again on the second push in nearly the identical position and against the same players? Were you also present with your all seeing eye?

Agrippa_Invisus · April 2015

Jauriel wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Jauriel wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

How exactly does someone cause lag for a specific faction and not their own?

Why do you keep asking this question? Are you anticipating a different response at some point? When a group spams to cause lag they lag everyone, even themselves. But it is a win win for them. Case in point on 4/2 when someone crashed all of us to desktop TWICE at Chalman on TB. They also crashed a lot of their own team and I am sure some are unwitting. But their crashing resulted in blue not taking Chalman-so do you think they really care? Chal was saved and that's all that matters.

I was actually there at one of those fights.

I was solo in the Thornblade zone, trying to work on my solo skills (which are awful), when I saw Chalman light up. I ran there and arrived just as the siege on the front porch of the inner was starting to decay from being left out. I raced onto the front flag (nave) and saw the DC all on the back flag. I deployed the only fire siege I had on my quick bar, a fire treb, as I hadn't any ballistae at the time and hadn't restocked recently.

Just as I got the "bird's eye" perspective from the treb, I saw the Emperor's team step in the eastern postern of the Chalman inner and start rushing the flag. Multiple meteors went off on that back flag just as I shotgunned a fire treb shot into the flag room. Instadeath for everyone in there. I'm not sure who fired the meteors (but I can guess from the results who did the majority of them). I didn't see anything untowards, though.

There was a graphics framerate drop from more than one meteor going off at once. Wykkyd's also showed PR over 240 for a second before it settled.

At the same time, I didn't see the EP team or DC team do anything that wasn't outside the normal game mechanics. They just played the game and the game wasn't up to the challenge.

AGAIN, what makes you think you can see what all players are doing at all times? Are your eyes in every tower and every corner of the keep? And honestly we are talking about two different battles. When we ALL crashed to desktop it was the second we stacked the back flag. There was no meteors and virtually no enemies in sight. As far as population goes it wasn't even that congested. It was average. I have been in far worse with minimal lag and zero crashing. But fine have it your way. Any explanation as to why we all crashed again on the second push in nearly the identical position and against the same players? Were you also present with your all seeing eye?

Scale back the attitude. I have tried to be as pleasant and as matter of fact with you as possible, as I generally try to be in serious discussion. That's what I saw.

I'm not lying or prevaricating.

I'd appreciate a little less attitude in response. You know darn well it's impossible to prove a negative.

If you want clarification, ask specifics about what I saw, when it was, etc. For all I know you may have crashed before the meteor attacks and treb shot fired off. There's no way for me to know.

At the same time, coming in hard like that against who isn't strictly towing your viewpoint reflects poorly on you as someone engaged in the discussion.

Tintinabula · April 2015

Simple. DC complains about lag when they're LOSING. I'm not hearing any complaints about lag on Chill when they're outnumbering us. Keep DC happy...buy into this lag story and allow them to outnumber us on chill..as long as they're happy that's all that matters.

Jauriel · April 2015

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Jauriel wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Jauriel wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

How exactly does someone cause lag for a specific faction and not their own?

Why do you keep asking this question? Are you anticipating a different response at some point? When a group spams to cause lag they lag everyone, even themselves. But it is a win win for them. Case in point on 4/2 when someone crashed all of us to desktop TWICE at Chalman on TB. They also crashed a lot of their own team and I am sure some are unwitting. But their crashing resulted in blue not taking Chalman-so do you think they really care? Chal was saved and that's all that matters.

I was actually there at one of those fights.

I was solo in the Thornblade zone, trying to work on my solo skills (which are awful), when I saw Chalman light up. I ran there and arrived just as the siege on the front porch of the inner was starting to decay from being left out. I raced onto the front flag (nave) and saw the DC all on the back flag. I deployed the only fire siege I had on my quick bar, a fire treb, as I hadn't any ballistae at the time and hadn't restocked recently.

Just as I got the "bird's eye" perspective from the treb, I saw the Emperor's team step in the eastern postern of the Chalman inner and start rushing the flag. Multiple meteors went off on that back flag just as I shotgunned a fire treb shot into the flag room. Instadeath for everyone in there. I'm not sure who fired the meteors (but I can guess from the results who did the majority of them). I didn't see anything untowards, though.

There was a graphics framerate drop from more than one meteor going off at once. Wykkyd's also showed PR over 240 for a second before it settled.

At the same time, I didn't see the EP team or DC team do anything that wasn't outside the normal game mechanics. They just played the game and the game wasn't up to the challenge.

AGAIN, what makes you think you can see what all players are doing at all times? Are your eyes in every tower and every corner of the keep? And honestly we are talking about two different battles. When we ALL crashed to desktop it was the second we stacked the back flag. There was no meteors and virtually no enemies in sight. As far as population goes it wasn't even that congested. It was average. I have been in far worse with minimal lag and zero crashing. But fine have it your way. Any explanation as to why we all crashed again on the second push in nearly the identical position and against the same players? Were you also present with your all seeing eye?

Scale back the attitude. I have tried to be as pleasant and as matter of fact with you as possible, as I generally try to be in serious discussion. That's what I saw.

I'm not lying or prevaricating.

I'd appreciate a little less attitude in response. You know darn well it's impossible to prove a negative.

If you want clarification, ask specifics about what I saw, when it was, etc. For all I know you may have crashed before the meteor attacks and treb shot fired off. There's no way for me to know.

At the same time, coming in hard like that against who isn't strictly towing your viewpoint reflects poorly on you as someone engaged in the discussion.

But yet you want to slyly insinuate I am the one being dishonest. It goes both ways. Perhaps I am grumpy today and perhaps today is not a good day to have this debate. I am just really tired of the silly denials. We should table this before I say something ban worthy.

Jauriel · April 2015

Tintinabula wrote: »

Simple. DC complains about lag when they're LOSING. I'm not hearing any complaints about lag on Chill when they're outnumbering us. Keep DC happy...buy into this lag story and allow them to outnumber us on chill..as long as they're happy that's all that matters.

I don't venture to Chill. And my crew has lost plenty of times on AS lately in large battles. Numerous times. I didn't come here and complain about lag because frankly the lag has been absent. And I haven't once crashed to desktop but then the enemy names I have been seeing are very different: vortex and Picard and Freelander to name a few. Been a lot of fun playing against them and losing to them when I deserved it.

RinaldoGandolphi · April 2015

Jauriel wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

Simple. DC complains about lag when they're LOSING. I'm not hearing any complaints about lag on Chill when they're outnumbering us. Keep DC happy...buy into this lag story and allow them to outnumber us on chill..as long as they're happy that's all that matters.

I don't venture to Chill. And my crew has lost plenty of times on AS lately in large battles. Numerous times. I didn't come here and complain about lag because frankly the lag has been absent. And I haven't once crashed to desktop but then the enemy names I have been seeing are very different: vortex and Picard and Freelander. Been a lot of fun playing against them and losing to them when I deserved it.

Agreed

Its important to understand though, Vortexman, Zazeer, even Picard. They are not only good players, they respect the game and actually want good fights, they don't want lagging nonsense. I had many good fights against those guys on Chillrend before we all left their. They are all class folks all around, and very worthy opponents.

Agrippa_Invisus · April 2015

Jauriel wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Jauriel wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Jauriel wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

How exactly does someone cause lag for a specific faction and not their own?

Why do you keep asking this question? Are you anticipating a different response at some point? When a group spams to cause lag they lag everyone, even themselves. But it is a win win for them. Case in point on 4/2 when someone crashed all of us to desktop TWICE at Chalman on TB. They also crashed a lot of their own team and I am sure some are unwitting. But their crashing resulted in blue not taking Chalman-so do you think they really care? Chal was saved and that's all that matters.

I was actually there at one of those fights.

I was solo in the Thornblade zone, trying to work on my solo skills (which are awful), when I saw Chalman light up. I ran there and arrived just as the siege on the front porch of the inner was starting to decay from being left out. I raced onto the front flag (nave) and saw the DC all on the back flag. I deployed the only fire siege I had on my quick bar, a fire treb, as I hadn't any ballistae at the time and hadn't restocked recently.

Just as I got the "bird's eye" perspective from the treb, I saw the Emperor's team step in the eastern postern of the Chalman inner and start rushing the flag. Multiple meteors went off on that back flag just as I shotgunned a fire treb shot into the flag room. Instadeath for everyone in there. I'm not sure who fired the meteors (but I can guess from the results who did the majority of them). I didn't see anything untowards, though.

There was a graphics framerate drop from more than one meteor going off at once. Wykkyd's also showed PR over 240 for a second before it settled.

At the same time, I didn't see the EP team or DC team do anything that wasn't outside the normal game mechanics. They just played the game and the game wasn't up to the challenge.

AGAIN, what makes you think you can see what all players are doing at all times? Are your eyes in every tower and every corner of the keep? And honestly we are talking about two different battles. When we ALL crashed to desktop it was the second we stacked the back flag. There was no meteors and virtually no enemies in sight. As far as population goes it wasn't even that congested. It was average. I have been in far worse with minimal lag and zero crashing. But fine have it your way. Any explanation as to why we all crashed again on the second push in nearly the identical position and against the same players? Were you also present with your all seeing eye?

Scale back the attitude. I have tried to be as pleasant and as matter of fact with you as possible, as I generally try to be in serious discussion. That's what I saw.

I'm not lying or prevaricating.

I'd appreciate a little less attitude in response. You know darn well it's impossible to prove a negative.

If you want clarification, ask specifics about what I saw, when it was, etc. For all I know you may have crashed before the meteor attacks and treb shot fired off. There's no way for me to know.

At the same time, coming in hard like that against who isn't strictly towing your viewpoint reflects poorly on you as someone engaged in the discussion.

But yet you want to slyly insinuate I am the one being dishonest. It goes both ways. Perhaps I am grumpy today and perhaps today is not a good day to have this debate. I am just really tired of the silly denials. We should table this before I say something ban worthy.

Nothing's being slyly insinuated. If I was being sly, there'd be a lot more smugness. I offered my testimony of what I perceive to be a factual encounter with the situation at hand.

Go back to that post and read that last paragraph in it. That shows I am providing neither confirmation nor contradiction, merely what I saw / experienced.

But yes, I think time and distance are probably something that should be taken here.

Jauriel · April 2015

woodsro wrote: »

Jauriel wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

Simple. DC complains about lag when they're LOSING. I'm not hearing any complaints about lag on Chill when they're outnumbering us. Keep DC happy...buy into this lag story and allow them to outnumber us on chill..as long as they're happy that's all that matters.

I don't venture to Chill. And my crew has lost plenty of times on AS lately in large battles. Numerous times. I didn't come here and complain about lag because frankly the lag has been absent. And I haven't once crashed to desktop but then the enemy names I have been seeing are very different: vortex and Picard and Freelander. Been a lot of fun playing against them and losing to them when I deserved it.

Agreed

Its important to understand though, Vortexman, Zazeer, even Picard. They are not only good players, they respect the game and actually want good fights, they don't want lagging nonsense. I had many good fights against those guys on Chillrend before we all left their. They are all class folks all around, and very worthy opponents.

100% agree. It has been a breath of fresh air going up against them. And I actually feel bad for possibly attracting the *bads* from their own faction who will sully AS with their filthy tactics. The only thing they can do is shame them in zone-I would do the same thing if we had a DC guild that chased good sportsmanship players away. And I think anyone reading this thread can see which guild and players think aggro'ing the lag is a "necessary evil" and a simple use of "game mechanics" they arrogantly feel ZOS gifted them with and they just happen to be clever enough to pervert.

Cody · April 2015

woodsro wrote: »

Jauriel wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with holding people accountable for their own behavior. You could say society has created "mechanics" which give people the ability to go to a bar, get drunk and wipe out a mother and her 4 children in a mini van. Do you blame society, the bar, the road, the booze or the drunk himself? If you blame anyone but the drunk you need to check your own integrity. I recognize this is an extreme analogy but I am making it extreme to provoke thought. This is a game we all share and those abusing it need to be held to a higher standard or they will ruin it for everyone.

@Jauriel I have always said the problem is ZOS don't police this nonsense enough.

See ZOS needs to get one of these, a really big heavy one

And needs to bring it down on people HARD that do this stuff to ruin the game for everyone else.. Using skills to lag the server intentionally is a permanent ban offense

Read the TOS

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service?q=170623f2-e0d1-4759-a642-82f9279f2a99&p=38497df9-909d-40ae-b9a3-4e96a59385fc&ts=1428947549&c=zenimaxonline&e=live&rt=Safetynet&h=e12f7ca36a27bb44451a5f63b9d2c4db

9. Your Use of the Services

You may not participate, take part in, initiate, or engage in actions that impose an unreasonable or disproportionate load on the infrastructure hosting the Game(s) and/or Services.

8. Rules of Conduct

Engage in disruptive behavior in chat areas, game areas, forums, or any other area or aspect of the Services. Examples of disruptive behavior include, but is not limited to, conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay

All this lagging that is being done, These folks should have been banned months ago, the TOS says they should be banned, why they are not, is anyone's guess.

because ZOS only cares about the forums:(

I can make a joke and be suspended, yet people can cheat and/or ruin the game for others and get off scott free. Its pathetic.

Earendal · April 2015

Rylana wrote: »

The most memorable of these events was when that group jumped up on a ledge in the scroll temple of Mnem for nearly an hour, maybe 15 of them all told, spamming healing springs and walls of elements all over below them. Not a single person in AD could do much of anything except try to avoid bad stuff on the ground. None of the reds were taking damage, nothing was registering. But somehow an EP casually walked over to the scroll pedestal, lifted the scroll up, and walked away with it, and literally no one could hit him. By the time the lag had eased, the scroll was already out of the gate and halfway to Drakelowe.

Not to deflect or justify any of these accusations, however I've been told that this scroll take didn't involve Havoc as a group, but that one person from the guild was there. Just trying to clear things up.

RivenEsq · April 2015

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

*cough cough* Meteor *cough cough* Sorry got some thing stuck in my throat.

Was it the 11 meteor animations that were cast on you while people were intentionally causing lag?

Satiar · April 2015

Jauriel wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Jauriel wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Jauriel wrote: »

And then again the same is true that the game has the potential to lag and some players have figured out how to exacerbate that lag to turn the tide when it suits them. This has been observed, reported and claimed as well. Bragged about even.

Dozens of pvp devotees, myself including, have come here and claimed that even in large scale battles they experience little to no lag. Yet in 12v12 or the like against very specific players they lag to death or crash to desktop. Should these claims be totally discounted and ridiculed in favor of your vanilla "one size fits all" explanation for the lag?

That's ZOS' responsibility to fix that problem though. Even if players are intentionally trying to lag the server or cause it to crash; it's not something they should be able to do. It's absurd to blame players for using mechanics created by ZOS.

There is nothing wrong with holding people accountable for their own behavior. You could say society has created "mechanics" which give people the ability to go to a bar, get drunk and wipe out a mother and her 4 children in a mini van. Do you blame society, the bar, the road, the booze or the drunk himself? If you blame anyone but the drunk you need to check your own integrity. I recognize this is an extreme analogy but I am making it extreme to provoke thought. This is a game we all share and those abusing it need to be held to a higher standard or they will ruin it for everyone.

Okay sure, except the initial example of players doing it on purpose is probably not as common as people are led to believe. I have never been in a guild that did that nor have I personally heard of anyone actually doing that. Maybe there was a couple examples, but if it's in fact something that's possible to do I'm sure that it's usually unintentional.

Fair enough. But I HAVE been in Ts and in a guild when it was done. I saw it work with my own eyes. Except at that time I was an unwitting noob and was totally naive at the time. Said person rallying his crew to do it defected and now the guild we suspected he joined are the ones everyone on here accuses and is the most frequently accused of griefing. This may seem like circumstantial evidence and perhaps it is but can you understand why someone like me (who knows it can be done and how) laughs at the pathetic denials here? What's being done isn't sophisticated or high tech. The person whom I suspect started it isn't even that bright.

Tell me you're not talking about who I think you are. He was laughed off the server.

.

Rylana · April 2015

Earendal wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

The most memorable of these events was when that group jumped up on a ledge in the scroll temple of Mnem for nearly an hour, maybe 15 of them all told, spamming healing springs and walls of elements all over below them. Not a single person in AD could do much of anything except try to avoid bad stuff on the ground. None of the reds were taking damage, nothing was registering. But somehow an EP casually walked over to the scroll pedestal, lifted the scroll up, and walked away with it, and literally no one could hit him. By the time the lag had eased, the scroll was already out of the gate and halfway to Drakelowe.

Not to deflect or justify any of these accusations, however I've been told that this scroll take didn't involve Havoc as a group, but that one person from the guild was there. Just trying to clear things up.

You do realize the "group" i am talking about involves two guilds. From what i understand they no longer run together, but they did for some time. (no idea what caused the schism or why, dont care, not my business, i just noticed they dont run together anymore). So when I see certain names from those two guilds obviously working to do the same thing, being stacked in the same spot, I lump them as the same group.

But since you mentioned the name, I will say yes there were some of that guilds members present, along with the other one that some of those members came from.