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BoP system - What ZOS should do ? Come & Vote !
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Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If they make all items BoP instead of BoE it will help the economy then they could just adjust the drop rate.
If they make ALL items BoP, there won't BE any economy!
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]Edited by ZOS_ShannonM on March 23, 2015 7:23PM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE1 -
Biiiiiii✭✭✭
If the poll goes in your point of view (let the bop system) you would have said exactly the opposite.2 -
wraith808✭✭✭✭
If the poll goes in your point of view (let the bop system) you would have said exactly the opposite.
Actually ... not. And I haven't even said what my stance is... so epic fail on your part. I just hate statistical fallacies.Edited by wraith808 on March 24, 2015 1:25PMQuasim ibn-Muhammad - VR 12 Redguard Dragon Knight
Taladriel Vanima - VR 5 Altmer Nightblade
Ambalyo iyo Bogaadin - VR 1 Redguard Sorceror0 -
maryriv✭✭✭✭The economy and the game itself would be better off with BoE, BoP is annoying and serves no purpose.1 -
TiberiusTryton✭✭✭Solution A means I start playing, grind to vr14, google ESO gold to buy and get best gear for gold.... not cool...1 -
Mumnoch✭✭✭BOP is the first step in manually slowing down content for players due to lack of ability on the Dev's part to create.
BOP is horrible for a game like this where there is little to do endgame and you have to "invent" things to do to try and stay interested (farming/selling/trying to amass a forture)2 -
Naivefanboi✭✭✭✭at this point the game none of this sounds like a priority to me, they have plenty of other more glaring issue to deal with. just my thoughts tho.0
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Biiiiiii✭✭✭
If the poll goes in your point of view (let the bop system) you would have said exactly the opposite.
Actually ... not. And I haven't even said what my stance is... so epic fail on your part. I just hate statistical fallacies.
you clearly let appeared your opinion..
90want to change bop system
Vs
52want to let bop system1 -
wraith808✭✭✭✭
If the poll goes in your point of view (let the bop system) you would have said exactly the opposite.
Actually ... not. And I haven't even said what my stance is... so epic fail on your part. I just hate statistical fallacies.
you clearly let appeared your opinion..
90want to change bop system
Vs
52want to let bop system
I... have no idea what this says nor means. I didn't vote in the biased poll. I also haven't said what my opinion is, other than I think that depending on the RNG is the larger problem. Any other inferences are your own.Quasim ibn-Muhammad - VR 12 Redguard Dragon Knight
Taladriel Vanima - VR 5 Altmer Nightblade
Ambalyo iyo Bogaadin - VR 1 Redguard Sorceror1 -
maryriv✭✭✭✭
If the poll goes in your point of view (let the bop system) you would have said exactly the opposite.
Actually ... not. And I haven't even said what my stance is... so epic fail on your part. I just hate statistical fallacies.
you clearly let appeared your opinion..
90want to change bop system
Vs
52want to let bop system
I... have no idea what this says nor means. I didn't vote in the biased poll. I also haven't said what my opinion is, other than I think that depending on the RNG is the larger problem. Any other inferences are your own.
I think that claiming that such a clear and straight forward pole is somehow biased shows that you have ulterior motives, that is what he is getting at.0 -
Ace_SiN✭✭✭✭byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »
Go play EvE. It's the king of sandbox MMOs for a reason and it's definitely not because of the combat.King of Beasts1 -
maryriv✭✭✭✭Sandbox is definitely the future of MMORPG's devs just can't keep up with the content. Getting rid of BoP would go a long way towards that, as would a more intricate and involved crafting that could be implemented in player driven housing etc.
ESO should really look at these other games and see what they did right to get some really good ideas I think they can implement them well into ESO rather easily espeicially with the mega server and instancing.
There are some really bad things brought over from other MMO's and BoP is one of them.
Good ideas would include:
Player farms
player carpentry so they can build their own structers
dynamic mob spawns that come from like deep dark caves or other lairs.
rare drops from rare mobs (BoE drops not BoP)
These all lend to a healthy long lasting player driven game that involves much less developer content.
As it is ZoS got off on a bad foot releasing the game before it was ready and have been trying to catch up ever since.
That coupled with making the game far to easy to level to max left a lot of people wondering what to do next.
As it is most people have no incentive to go look for a helmet in these dungeons because 99% of the time they will either A get the wrong helm or B not get a helm at all. If the system were BoE that would not be a problem as they could trade the wrong helmet or buy one with hard earned gold.
If you are worried about market saturation just lower the drop rate. Easily solved. You have to realize that most people will be using the helm and shoulders they want to it becomes bound at that point anyway.2 -
wraith808✭✭✭✭
If the poll goes in your point of view (let the bop system) you would have said exactly the opposite.
Actually ... not. And I haven't even said what my stance is... so epic fail on your part. I just hate statistical fallacies.
you clearly let appeared your opinion..
90want to change bop system
Vs
52want to let bop system
I... have no idea what this says nor means. I didn't vote in the biased poll. I also haven't said what my opinion is, other than I think that depending on the RNG is the larger problem. Any other inferences are your own.
I think that claiming that such a clear and straight forward pole is somehow biased shows that you have ulterior motives, that is what he is getting at.
But it's not. From the way that the options are presented to the way that they are ordered, to the manner in which the questions are stated to the way that the original question is even stated, there are biases built in. The polls are made for entertainment purposes, and are in no way scientific.
But hey, don't let statistics get in the way of your statistics.Quasim ibn-Muhammad - VR 12 Redguard Dragon Knight
Taladriel Vanima - VR 5 Altmer Nightblade
Ambalyo iyo Bogaadin - VR 1 Redguard Sorceror1 -
maryriv✭✭✭✭
If the poll goes in your point of view (let the bop system) you would have said exactly the opposite.
Actually ... not. And I haven't even said what my stance is... so epic fail on your part. I just hate statistical fallacies.
you clearly let appeared your opinion..
90want to change bop system
Vs
52want to let bop system
I... have no idea what this says nor means. I didn't vote in the biased poll. I also haven't said what my opinion is, other than I think that depending on the RNG is the larger problem. Any other inferences are your own.
I think that claiming that such a clear and straight forward pole is somehow biased shows that you have ulterior motives, that is what he is getting at.
But it's not. From the way that the options are presented to the way that they are ordered, to the manner in which the questions are stated to the way that the original question is even stated, there are biases built in. The polls are made for entertainment purposes, and are in no way scientific.
But hey, don't let statistics get in the way of your statistics.
I think the only bias coming through here is from you. No one questions the impartiality of the poll here but you and it doesn't make sense.1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
If the poll goes in your point of view (let the bop system) you would have said exactly the opposite.
Actually ... not. And I haven't even said what my stance is... so epic fail on your part. I just hate statistical fallacies.
you clearly let appeared your opinion..
90want to change bop system
Vs
52want to let bop system
Sigh.
You have 149 votes on the (somewhat biased) poll, 36% voting "we want free stuff".
That is with a 7.7% margin of error, so it could be 28.3% or it could be 43.3% of the population with this mentality. Not even a majority.
I don't know why you keep bringing up "statistics", they are actually against the point you are trying to make.
All it proves is that 64% (+-7.7%) would like to see changes to the RNG system (me being one of them), not that people want BOP gone
1 -
maryriv✭✭✭✭
If the poll goes in your point of view (let the bop system) you would have said exactly the opposite.
Actually ... not. And I haven't even said what my stance is... so epic fail on your part. I just hate statistical fallacies.
you clearly let appeared your opinion..
90want to change bop system
Vs
52want to let bop system
Sigh.
You have 149 votes on the (somewhat biased) poll, 36% voting "we want free stuff".
That is with a 7.7% margin of error, so it could be 28.3% or it could be 43.3% of the population with this mentality. Not even a majority.
I don't know why you keep bringing up "statistics", they are actually against the point you are trying to make.
All it proves is that 64% (+-7.7%) would like to see changes to the RNG system (me being one of them), not that people want BOP gone
I noticed from the other thread that you want to keep the BoP system because you don't want others being able to have what you have even if they have hard earned gold to get it.
I am seeing a trend here of people claiming this poll is biased simply because they don't agree with it.
You both also try to downplay that the majority agree that BoP should go away.2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
If the poll goes in your point of view (let the bop system) you would have said exactly the opposite.
Actually ... not. And I haven't even said what my stance is... so epic fail on your part. I just hate statistical fallacies.
you clearly let appeared your opinion..
90want to change bop system
Vs
52want to let bop system
Sigh.
You have 149 votes on the (somewhat biased) poll, 36% voting "we want free stuff".
That is with a 7.7% margin of error, so it could be 28.3% or it could be 43.3% of the population with this mentality. Not even a majority.
I don't know why you keep bringing up "statistics", they are actually against the point you are trying to make.
All it proves is that 64% (+-7.7%) would like to see changes to the RNG system (me being one of them), not that people want BOP gone
I noticed from the other thread that you want to keep the BoP system because you don't want others being able to have what you have even if they have hard earned gold to get it.
I am seeing a trend here of people claiming this poll is biased simply because they don't agree with it.
You both also try to downplay that the majority agree that BoP should go away.
Since when is 36% (with a 7.7% margin of error) a majority? An equal number of people want BoP to stay as it is. Are they a "majority" as well now?
My only issue with this poll is the people who make ridiculous statements & try to contort facts to work in their favour.
And the somewhat biased wording of it, basicly: "Options B & C suck, so vote Option A.".
As for the topic itself, you'd know if you had played other MMOs with end game raiding, that you can't keep people around if everything that counts is gold and you have no real reason to be excited about content.
Just to list a few problems:- Skill/dedication no longer counts for achieving powerful artifacts. Everyone can grind gold, which means the loot loses symbolical value & you have noobs running around with epic awesome gear they did not deserve.
- Gold selling makes the game essentially P2W.
- Lack of incentive for running content. Why go through the effort, if you can just farm gold & purchase everything?
- Negative impact on economy. The few end game PvErs (who already are the richest people in game) who still decide to run this content become even richer & monopolize the market.
Edited by DDuke on March 28, 2015 7:40PM0 -
wraith808✭✭✭✭
If the poll goes in your point of view (let the bop system) you would have said exactly the opposite.
Actually ... not. And I haven't even said what my stance is... so epic fail on your part. I just hate statistical fallacies.
you clearly let appeared your opinion..
90want to change bop system
Vs
52want to let bop system
I... have no idea what this says nor means. I didn't vote in the biased poll. I also haven't said what my opinion is, other than I think that depending on the RNG is the larger problem. Any other inferences are your own.
I think that claiming that such a clear and straight forward pole is somehow biased shows that you have ulterior motives, that is what he is getting at.
But it's not. From the way that the options are presented to the way that they are ordered, to the manner in which the questions are stated to the way that the original question is even stated, there are biases built in. The polls are made for entertainment purposes, and are in no way scientific.
But hey, don't let statistics get in the way of your statistics.
I think the only bias coming through here is from you. No one questions the impartiality of the poll here but you and it doesn't make sense.
Maybe because most don't care? It's a pet peeve of mine. I can give you some reading material if you truly want to see the biases in the poll. You can start with a really old, but really good book- How to Lie with Statistics by Darrell Huff. There are a few others... but I won't go through the trouble of posting them until you let me know you're interested.
Quasim ibn-Muhammad - VR 12 Redguard Dragon Knight
Taladriel Vanima - VR 5 Altmer Nightblade
Ambalyo iyo Bogaadin - VR 1 Redguard Sorceror0 -
Savitar✭✭✭Wow, so much hate for a super biased thread. Biased for good reasons, the RNG in the game is silly and stupid. Period. Biased all the same though.
Without tracking the bad luck streaks of people and the times they've finally gotten xyz with a completely junk trait on top of the junk RNG it just makes bad luck, worse.
Simple way of fixing this problem, is sadly, almost a worse problem..... a rep or token system.
We all know Rep systems suck. It's grind on top of grind.
The only viable, not cheap or cheaty, way of fixing the BOP, BOE, BOA problem is via a gear token system for those items of BOP gear. Run something 60 times or whatever, turn in your 60 tokens for a piece of gear with the trait you want on it out of the ones that would normally drop.
This system is the easiest to implement and is the fairest system. You have to put forth the effort and complete the content to earn a token. The tokens bind to the character that earns them to ward off the system abusing players. Gear earned would bind like normal.
There, problem solved and everyone's happy. Economy isn't in ruins, players can finally get the gear they want, win win.0 -
Endurance✭✭✭Soultion D :
craft your own equips, that way its BoE and has the stats you want it to have.. wouldnt catch me in a dungeon with a full party all rolling NEED for everything they dont even need like whats the point?Edited by Endurance on March 29, 2015 12:21AMI'm outta here0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »Emma_Eunjung wrote: »
I don't think you understand economy very well.
I don't think you understand that there won't be any items to SELL if they are all made BoP. If no one is selling items, that means that no one is BUYING items... thus 100% BoP will kill the economy.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE1 -
RSram✭✭✭✭✭The gear is supposed to be a reward for the player accomplishing an achievement that is why it's special and can't be crafted, sold , or traded. If it weren't for BoP then everyone with enough gold could have high level gear without earning it.
BoP is a perfect solution to prevent the saturation of high level gear in the game's economy.1 -
maryriv✭✭✭✭Wow, so much hate for a super biased thread. Biased for good reasons, the RNG in the game is silly and stupid. Period. Biased all the same though.
Without tracking the bad luck streaks of people and the times they've finally gotten xyz with a completely junk trait on top of the junk RNG it just makes bad luck, worse.
Simple way of fixing this problem, is sadly, almost a worse problem..... a rep or token system.
We all know Rep systems suck. It's grind on top of grind.
The only viable, not cheap or cheaty, way of fixing the BOP, BOE, BOA problem is via a gear token system for those items of BOP gear. Run something 60 times or whatever, turn in your 60 tokens for a piece of gear with the trait you want on it out of the ones that would normally drop.
This system is the easiest to implement and is the fairest system. You have to put forth the effort and complete the content to earn a token. The tokens bind to the character that earns them to ward off the system abusing players. Gear earned would bind like normal.
There, problem solved and everyone's happy. Economy isn't in ruins, players can finally get the gear they want, win win.
It's not biased at all. There is no hate here, denial maybe but no hate. I honestly don't think you even know what the word biased means.
4 options are given, 1 of which is keep BoP system and 2 of which are suggestions by other players from the other thread. The poll could not be more comprehensive.
You claim it is biased because it does not go the way you want it to go, the same with those above. It is obvious that most people dislike the BoP system and want it to go. Of that majority most think it should be BoE.
You and the others here who claim it is biased obviously have ulterior motives.
Tokens are a horrible way of solving the problem and add nothing to the economy, they simply force a grind. They do not contribute to the interaction of others.
Edited by maryriv on March 29, 2015 1:36AM2 -
maryriv✭✭✭✭The gear is supposed to be a reward for the player accomplishing an achievement that is why it's special and can't be crafted, sold , or traded. If it weren't for BoP then everyone with enough gold could have high level gear without earning it.
BoP is a perfect solution to prevent the saturation of high level gear in the game's economy.
This is incorrect in several places. First of all if it was meant to be a reward for accomplishing an achievement then everyone who accomplished that achievement would have what they wanted, they do not. So it if IS for that it has and will continue to fail miserably. If it were to reward achievement then why not make the armor only wearable by someone who has completed that achievement?
Secondly if the gear were precious enough and rare enough (as it should be) then very few people would be selling it thus raising the price. Not everyone with a few gold would be having these items, that is a fallacy that has been perpetuation throughout this discussion and it is just plain wrong.
Thirdly BoP is the worst possible solution for trying to control something saturating the economy, that's what % drop rates are for, it is artificial at best and economy breaking at worst.
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