Should Vampires be KoS to Guards at Stage 4?

Obscure · March 2015

If guards are going to KoS stage 4 vamps or people in WW form, they're going to need to be killable first. The real soulless immortals are THEM. They're also going to need to unhook the guards from the Satelite communication array they use to instantaneously inform every guard on Nirn of a criminal via what I can only describe to be a neural uplink to the guard hive mind.

First fix the atrociously lazy justice system design, THEN make the obviously vile denizens KoS. Citizens would never fear a vampire or a werewolf when they all know full well a singular guard could stomp the ugly off Daedric prince's face, through its ass.

phreatophile · March 2015

Obscure wrote: »

If guards are going to KoS stage 4 vamps or people in WW form, they're going to need to be killable first. The real soulless immortals are THEM. They're also going to need to unhook the guards from the Satelite communication array they use to instantaneously inform every guard on Nirn of a criminal via what I can only describe to be a neural uplink to the guard hive mind.

First fix the atrociously lazy justice system design, THEN make the obviously vile denizens KoS. Citizens would never fear a vampire or a werewolf when they all know full well a singular guard could stomp the ugly off Daedric prince's face, through its ass.

I need the LOL button. For really laugh out loud not the sarcasm it was usually used for. "Stomp the ugly off a daedric princes face" I'll remmember that one.

Regarding the hive mind, you'd think they'd have made some strides in realism since TES IV: Oblivion.

lihentian · March 2015

This can be done, but first we need Tommie guard less powerful, by all means guard should not be this hard to kill

Makkir · March 2015

If you are going to add an inconvenience to a class like that, then there needs to be a perk to playing the class. One of the downfalls of Star Wars Galaxies was the introduction of the Jedi class, which at first DID have a perma-death repercussion for such an OP class but that was removed and was the first mistake.

I know there's a separate debate whether vampires in PvP are OP, but if they are KOS to guards then that should come with some reward/perk.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO · March 2015

MornaBaine wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

The only reason a guard would kill you on sight is if you acted like a maniac. There are plenty of vampires in the series where everyone knew they were vampires but just let them be because they didn't go on a murderous rampage when they wanted to go out for a pint. If everyone went off and killed the other because they looked like monsters then we'd only be playing Imperials, Redguard or Nord as every other race would be decimated for being monstrous looking or the ability to use magic better.

I'm all for realism, but I don't want the realism of medieval Europe and it's discriminatory practises.

The "problem" is that those "discriminatory" practices you decry are already firmly established in the game. In DC you have SEVERAL quests that pit you against vampires and bloodfiends. Count Verandis Ravenwatch, close friend of many years to High King Emeric, is forced to hide his vampirism by the King's command. Because even Emeric knows that, if Ravenwatch is discovered to be a vampire, he's a dead man. Vampires are rightly feared and mostly hated. The game mechanics we have to deal with as players should reflect this while at the same time giving us means to mitigate the worst of it. Like, you know, the ability to HIDE our vampirism just like Ravenwatch. But then if we fail to do so.... it's all about the pitchforks and torches.

And as this game is set before all the others, then it is logical to say that Count Ravenwatch actions here could have brought about the tolerance for Count Hassildor of Skingrad in Oblivion. Vampires still have free will, they still choose how they feed. If they choose to go to the tavern and slaughter everyone in it for a light snack, they they should expect the full force of the law to come down on them. Which is what a lot of the NPC vampires tend to choose to do in this game. Yet those that choose not to are tolerated.

Emeric DOES know Verandis is a vampire. That is made clear in the quest. Verandis hides his condition at Emeric's insistence. Because he doesn't want his good friend the vampire to be killed by a mob. Because he knows most people hate and fear vampires.

Did I dispute Emeric knows about Verandis? No, however, I doubt the Mages Guild, the Fighters Guild and every other person in a position of authority does. Unlike Count Hassildor where his condition is known to others and the attitude is "If he steps out of line we'll lynch him, until then he's doing a good job". Now that tolerance for Count Hassildor had to start somewhere, why can't it start with the relationship between Emeric and Verandis and Verandis actions?

If Verandis is getting protection from the faction leader, then why not a player character who is a werewolf or a vampire? After all they are doing deeds to further the cause of the faction, as long as you're not breaking the law, the leader doesn't care.

You want to play the Paladin, go ahead and slay the evil monsters. Just remember to follow it on by going after the orcs and Argonians next. Then the Dunmer for being slave traders, then the High Elves and Bretons for their practise of magic, then the Bosmer for their unholy Green Pact. All so everyone can be the big dashing hero with the sparkly teeth.

WraithAzraiel · March 2015

Yesterday, just for funzies, I snuck up behind a guard and fed on it. Was hilarious.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

The only reason a guard would kill you on sight is if you acted like a maniac. There are plenty of vampires in the series where everyone knew they were vampires but just let them be because they didn't go on a murderous rampage when they wanted to go out for a pint. If everyone went off and killed the other because they looked like monsters then we'd only be playing Imperials, Redguard or Nord as every other race would be decimated for being monstrous looking or the ability to use magic better.

I'm all for realism, but I don't want the realism of medieval Europe and it's discriminatory practises.

The "problem" is that those "discriminatory" practices you decry are already firmly established in the game. In DC you have SEVERAL quests that pit you against vampires and bloodfiends. Count Verandis Ravenwatch, close friend of many years to High King Emeric, is forced to hide his vampirism by the King's command. Because even Emeric knows that, if Ravenwatch is discovered to be a vampire, he's a dead man. Vampires are rightly feared and mostly hated. The game mechanics we have to deal with as players should reflect this while at the same time giving us means to mitigate the worst of it. Like, you know, the ability to HIDE our vampirism just like Ravenwatch. But then if we fail to do so.... it's all about the pitchforks and torches.

And as this game is set before all the others, then it is logical to say that Count Ravenwatch actions here could have brought about the tolerance for Count Hassildor of Skingrad in Oblivion. Vampires still have free will, they still choose how they feed. If they choose to go to the tavern and slaughter everyone in it for a light snack, they they should expect the full force of the law to come down on them. Which is what a lot of the NPC vampires tend to choose to do in this game. Yet those that choose not to are tolerated.

Emeric DOES know Verandis is a vampire. That is made clear in the quest. Verandis hides his condition at Emeric's insistence. Because he doesn't want his good friend the vampire to be killed by a mob. Because he knows most people hate and fear vampires.

Did I dispute Emeric knows about Verandis? No, however, I doubt the Mages Guild, the Fighters Guild and every other person in a position of authority does. Unlike Count Hassildor where his condition is known to others and the attitude is "If he steps out of line we'll lynch him, until then he's doing a good job". Now that tolerance for Count Hassildor had to start somewhere, why can't it start with the relationship between Emeric and Verandis and Verandis actions?

If Verandis is getting protection from the faction leader, then why not a player character who is a werewolf or a vampire? After all they are doing deeds to further the cause of the faction, as long as you're not breaking the law, the leader doesn't care.

You want to play the Paladin, go ahead and slay the evil monsters. Just remember to follow it on by going after the orcs and Argonians next. Then the Dunmer for being slave traders, then the High Elves and Bretons for their practise of magic, then the Bosmer for their unholy Green Pact. All so everyone can be the big dashing hero with the sparkly teeth.

Just so we're clear, did you just accuse Morna of wanting to be a Paladin? Are you feeling okay? Have you been concussed lately? Did someone steal your account?

Also, long live Foamy.

BBSooner · March 2015

Makkir wrote: »

If you are going to add an inconvenience to a class like that, then there needs to be a perk to playing the class. One of the downfalls of Star Wars Galaxies was the introduction of the Jedi class, which at first DID have a perma-death repercussion for such an OP class but that was removed and was the first mistake.

I know there's a separate debate whether vampires in PvP are OP, but if they are KOS to guards then that should come with some reward/perk.

Vampires aren't a class though - and you can at any moment alter your status of being a vampire if for any moment you decide you aren't happy with the trade-off.

Whether or not a person feels that the benefit vs reward granted by being a vampire is acceptable is up to the individual (and indeed a revamp of vampire skills to offer more or less options/utility/etc. may be in order) but as a player with vampire characters I'd like to see stage 4 KOS added. It adds flavor, a reason to participate in the mechanics of the condition (I.E. feeding), and consistency with the prior games in the series.

phreatophile · March 2015

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

If Verandis is getting protection from the faction leader, then why not a player character who is a werewolf or a vampire? After all they are doing deeds to further the cause of the faction, as long as you're not breaking the law, the leader doesn't care.

It's not so much that he's getting protection, Emeric insists that Verandis hide because he can't protect him, an option denied to us as players because MMO. Given Verandis's capabilities, Emeric is as much protecting his other subjects as he is Verandis. Emeric likes Verandis and finds him useful and probably believes that the smaller the group who are aware of Verandis's nature the safer it is for everybody. As much as is made of kings having absolute authority, if a torch and pitchfork bearing mob came after Verandis or the player vampire there's not a lot he could or would do, the law, public opinion, any established religion, and most importantly time would be against him. Verandis or a player vampire would be a pile of ash and a good number of the attackers corpses long before Emeric even found out about it. Emeric would most likely mourn a friend and asset, but privately.

Though Verandis would likely flee rather than kill his attackers, I sure wouldn't.

You want to play the Paladin, go ahead and slay the evil monsters. Just remember to follow it on by going after the orcs and Argonians next. Then the Dunmer for being slave traders, then the High Elves and Bretons for their practise of magic, then the Bosmer for their unholy Green Pact. All so everyone can be the big dashing hero with the sparkly teeth.

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Yesterday, just for funzies, I snuck up behind a guard and fed on it. Was hilarious.

Must try this

Just so we're clear, did you just accuse Morna of wanting to be a Paladin? Are you feeling okay? Have you been concussed lately? Did someone steal your account?

Right, that one made me say "whut?!"

Sphinx2318 · March 2015

I happen to be a lover of TES universe and the single player games. I have even created and released mods on the Nexus.

That said....At some point players are going to have to realize that the game mechanics for this MMO are not ever going to be like the mechanics of the single player installments.

OP, its awesome that you care about lore and the ES universe, however, what you are requesting will create an experience that is far too hindering and annoying for the average MMO player. Your suggestion just cannot happen unfortunately with the game built as it is.

Folkb · March 2015

+1 for yes.

phreatophile · March 2015

Sphinx2318 wrote: »

I happen to be a lover of TES universe and the single player games. I have even created and released mods on the Nexus.

That said....At some point players are going to have to realize that the game mechanics for this MMO are not ever going to be like the mechanics of the single player installments.

OP, its awesome that you care about lore and the ES universe, however, what you are requesting will create an experience that is far too hindering and annoying for the average MMO player. Your suggestion just cannot happen unfortunately with the game built as it is.

They don't have to be just like the single player games, but there's way too much 'because it's an MMO" in ESO vampires.

One hopes there is a balance between the poor presentation we have and the single player games. Some concessions to the MMORPG genre are absolutely needed but a few less than we have would be better.

vovus69 · March 2015

Vampires and werewolves should KoS for guards at any stage, even on stage 1. Just IMO.

7788b14_ESO · March 2015

MornaBaine wrote: »

Those who have played the earlier single player incarnations of this game often lament that nobody but other players seem to notice that their vampires are vampires. They have further lamented that Stage 4 vampires are free to walk around completely unmolested whereas in the earlier games they would have been attacked and vendors would refuse to deal with them.

Therefore several players have advocated that, as part of the upcoming justice system, that vampires who allow themselves to slip into Stage 4 should be KOS to city and town guards and NPC vendors should refuse to deal with them. Further, they have advocated that vampires be able to feed on Townies but should incur a bounty, flagging them for PvP, if they get caught/seen by another player, or the bounty should be automatic for this activity.

What do you think about these ideas? What effect would they have on PvP? Can you think of what would need to be done to implement such a system fairly? Are you for or against such a system? Please try to be clear in your replies and avoid insults and general flaming. That means please don't start your post with something like, "This is a stupid idea because..." but rather something more along the lines of, "I feel this is a bad idea because..." Thank you.

For such risks what would be the rewards? Other than groups of vampires flagging themselves so they can hunt players. I would just like to see the broken passives fixed.

7788b14_ESO · March 2015

It's funny I can walk into a bar as a vampire or werewolf and become an Undaunted, professional monster killers, when I'm a monster. I can even transform into a werewolf right in front of them and they ignore it.

Zos should sell daywalker rings in the store and bat transformation disguises.

WraithAzraiel · March 2015

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

It's funny I can walk into a bar as a vampire or werewolf and become an Undaunted, professional monster killers, when I'm a monster. I can even transform into a werewolf right in front of them and they ignore it.

Zos should sell daywalker rings in the store and bat transformation disguises.

The Undaunted are Dungeoneers, not just monster hunters.

WraithAzraiel · March 2015

vovus69 wrote: »

Vampires and werewolves should KoS for guards at any stage, even on stage 1. Just IMO.

No

Djem · March 2015

Maybe not specifically what the OP suggests; but more drawbacks to being an Undead, blood sucking parasite would be good.

phreatophile · March 2015

vovus69 wrote: »

Vampires and werewolves should KoS for guards at any stage, even on stage 1. Just IMO.

Same answer to everybody else that trolls through with this comment:

As soon as I can infect you involuntarily and it's harder than plunking down a few gold to get cured, we can be KOS to anybody who wants to have a go at it.

Mataata · March 2015

It was annoying in Oblivion and early Skyrim and it was the main reason I stayed away from being a vampire in those games. With Dawnguard in Skyrim and everyone not attacking you on sight for being a vampire, I felt like I could actually be the "good" vampire I always wanted to be and I enjoyed it a lot.

I'm not a vampire in ESO because I don't like how much it ruins my fur/scale tone, but I certainly wouldn't want that old system back in place if I was. As neat as it is from a lore standpoint, it just gets in the way after a while.

Aerieth · March 2015

"My ‘condition' is a trial. The weak are consumed by it. The strong transcend it."—Sorin Markov

Not all vamps are feral or evil creatures. My characters embrace Vampirism as a blessing. It has made them stronger through hardship. Good-guy Vampires unite! Say "no" to vampire discrimination!

But if we're going to make vamps KOS, then we might as well go and make it so, that all races who don't originally belong to their pact/covenant/dominion are KOS as well. All high elves are bad, right? All nords are blood hungry berserkers killing innocent high elves all day long? All Khajiit steal, lie and murder? Of course not. The world isn't black and white. It's shades of gray.

For what I've experienced and read on vampirism in the Elder Scrolls universe, not feeding is a completely valid option. As far as I know, you can't - according to lore - die of starvation as you are not a mortal. In fact, vampiric powers grow stronger when not feeding, granted you look like crap. So people saying stuff like "You kill people to stay alive, so you're evil" is complete and utter BS. This might be the case in other fantasy worlds, but not in Tamriel. Even if we choose to feed, we don't need to kill the target when feeding. We don't even spread the disease unless we want to(?). If you know of lore that contradicts anything I wrote here, please do let me know (with links preferably). I love learning new things about TES lore.

P.S. Vampire since 3rd day of Early-Access.
P.S.S Shameless plug to a somewhat lengthy post about vampirism in ESO and my thoughts on possible improvements and whatnot: Click!

s7732425ub17_ESO · March 2015

No, this idea is terrible. As a Vamp, you WANT to be Stage 4. There is no reason to ever stay in the lower stages. Also, you want to be able to play the game as normal. Having to sneak everywhere gets very annoying and tiring after the first few days. If you don't believe me, go get a 50k bounty, and try to play the game for a week. You will never do it again.

WraithAzraiel · March 2015

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

No, this idea is terrible. As a Vamp, you WANT to be Stage 4. There is no reason to ever stay in the lower stages. Also, you want to be able to play the game as normal. Having to sneak everywhere gets very annoying and tiring after the first few days. If you don't believe me, go get a 50k bounty, and try to play the game for a week. You will never do it again.

What do you WANT to be at Stage 4 at all times for? Vampire active skills outside the Ultimate aren't as useful as other skills. I don't even use the Ultimate anymore, I have drain on my bar, doesn't cost much at stage 1. I have Elusive Mist for PvP, doesn't cost that much.

I keep myself at Stage 1 whenever possible. Soooo outside of you're own personal opinion and playstyle, where's the merit of your comment?

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO · March 2015

@WraithAzraiel It's a Paladine rant on "let's go after X because they are evil" I'm sorry, but you're only evil if you perform evil actions. Act like a Paladin you get labelled like one, just like the all vampires are being labelled evil at the moment.

@phreatophile To be fair, we don't know the actual ins and outs of that relationship between Emeric and Verandis. Only a brief insight.

However there seems to be some confusion over the word tolerate. Yes there are vampires in Nirn who are tolerated because their actions do not match the actions of the feral vampire. These vampires, still remain secret to the general population with only a few knowing because of the stigma created due to actions of the feral vampire. Yet these vampires know the second they act in anyway deemed evil by those protecting their identity, then they will audition for the next Twilight movie in which they get to prove they really do sparkle in daylight, shortly followed smoke, intense flame, excruciating pain and finally ash.

Now if we can not tolerate that some of our allies maybe of the leech type, then by all means, let's go down to the local chapel, get ourselves ordained as shield of the flame or what ever Order you want to start up and hunt these evil scum down. Just remember as soon as they are dealt with, it's not long before they find another group to hunt down.

Pausekey · March 2015

Aoife32001 wrote: »

No reason I should be forced to experience it.

Part of being a vampire is being "forced" to experience aspects of being one, from fire vulnerability to appearance to, lore-wise, being KoS by guards dedicated to protecting citizens against murder. Like I just said above, there are ways to mitigate this for you rather than requiring you to feed every two hours, but it would clearly be more immersive and lore-friendly if they were KoS in such a state.

You may not like lore and immersion, but they are part and parcel of the Elder Scrolls franchise.

Well if we really are going to go full Elder Scrolls vamps, where is my frost, poison, and disease immunity?

Ah yes, so it seems like perhaps the people complaining about vampires aren't being entirely honest either. So why don't we all just agree to leave things as they are, yes?

ShadowHvo · March 2015

Pausekey wrote: »

Aoife32001 wrote: »

No reason I should be forced to experience it.

Part of being a vampire is being "forced" to experience aspects of being one, from fire vulnerability to appearance to, lore-wise, being KoS by guards dedicated to protecting citizens against murder. Like I just said above, there are ways to mitigate this for you rather than requiring you to feed every two hours, but it would clearly be more immersive and lore-friendly if they were KoS in such a state.

You may not like lore and immersion, but they are part and parcel of the Elder Scrolls franchise.

Well if we really are going to go full Elder Scrolls vamps, where is my frost, poison, and disease immunity?

Ah yes, so it seems like perhaps the people complaining about vampires aren't being entirely honest either. So why don't we all just agree to leave things as they are, yes?

Don't forget the vampires usual superior strenght, agility and magical capabilities, as well as constant increased resistence towards all weaponry but silver. Oh, and much higher health regeneration.

It's kinda funny that vampires instead of increased health regeneration suddenly got it turned around to less.. =P

phreatophile · March 2015

^^That's pretty much the point. As a vampire you are supposed to get a lot of power at an enormous cost. ESO vampires have neither the lots of power nor the enormous cost at this point. That's why they are so very unsatisfactory.

Most of this thread's frequent posters were wanting and/or asking for all the hardships that are supposed to go with vampirism back when they were a lot more powerful than they are now. Not that it really matters. It's more balanced now, I guess, just so very very bland.

MornaBaine · March 2015

Well after reading through the 50 new responses I see not much has changed. All of the "Nuuuuu!" responses are essentially this: "I don't want there to be any downsides to being a vampire because I PvP and Stage 4 is best ever and don't anyone dare make things so I have to leave it for even a minute."

While, of course, completely ignoring the NUMEROUS instances where it is explained to them that this topic covers far more than just the title, which it appears is all they have read.

Prepares to whack that dead horse one more time...

IF vampires in Stage 4 become KOS to guards then what ALSO must happen is that the Stage Timers of Stages 1 and 3 must be switched out. This means you'd only have to feed once and then you'd be in Stage 3 for a mere half hour before returning to Stage 4. That is a far, far cry from making vampires "unplayable."

Truth is, it SHOULD be inconvenient to play a vampire. It should be a CHALLENGE. The World Skill should not be taken because it's an "I WIN" button for PvP. This very thing is what has caused far too many people to be playing vampires in the first place, resulting in the veritable plague of them in Tamriel and causing them to be so hated by many players that ZOS has resorted to nerfing them into the ground...which STILL doesn't make the "anti-vamp" crowd happy.

MornaBaine · March 2015

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Yesterday, just for funzies, I snuck up behind a guard and fed on it. Was hilarious.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

The only reason a guard would kill you on sight is if you acted like a maniac. There are plenty of vampires in the series where everyone knew they were vampires but just let them be because they didn't go on a murderous rampage when they wanted to go out for a pint. If everyone went off and killed the other because they looked like monsters then we'd only be playing Imperials, Redguard or Nord as every other race would be decimated for being monstrous looking or the ability to use magic better.

I'm all for realism, but I don't want the realism of medieval Europe and it's discriminatory practises.

The "problem" is that those "discriminatory" practices you decry are already firmly established in the game. In DC you have SEVERAL quests that pit you against vampires and bloodfiends. Count Verandis Ravenwatch, close friend of many years to High King Emeric, is forced to hide his vampirism by the King's command. Because even Emeric knows that, if Ravenwatch is discovered to be a vampire, he's a dead man. Vampires are rightly feared and mostly hated. The game mechanics we have to deal with as players should reflect this while at the same time giving us means to mitigate the worst of it. Like, you know, the ability to HIDE our vampirism just like Ravenwatch. But then if we fail to do so.... it's all about the pitchforks and torches.

And as this game is set before all the others, then it is logical to say that Count Ravenwatch actions here could have brought about the tolerance for Count Hassildor of Skingrad in Oblivion. Vampires still have free will, they still choose how they feed. If they choose to go to the tavern and slaughter everyone in it for a light snack, they they should expect the full force of the law to come down on them. Which is what a lot of the NPC vampires tend to choose to do in this game. Yet those that choose not to are tolerated.

Emeric DOES know Verandis is a vampire. That is made clear in the quest. Verandis hides his condition at Emeric's insistence. Because he doesn't want his good friend the vampire to be killed by a mob. Because he knows most people hate and fear vampires.

Did I dispute Emeric knows about Verandis? No, however, I doubt the Mages Guild, the Fighters Guild and every other person in a position of authority does. Unlike Count Hassildor where his condition is known to others and the attitude is "If he steps out of line we'll lynch him, until then he's doing a good job". Now that tolerance for Count Hassildor had to start somewhere, why can't it start with the relationship between Emeric and Verandis and Verandis actions?

If Verandis is getting protection from the faction leader, then why not a player character who is a werewolf or a vampire? After all they are doing deeds to further the cause of the faction, as long as you're not breaking the law, the leader doesn't care.

You want to play the Paladin, go ahead and slay the evil monsters. Just remember to follow it on by going after the orcs and Argonians next. Then the Dunmer for being slave traders, then the High Elves and Bretons for their practise of magic, then the Bosmer for their unholy Green Pact. All so everyone can be the big dashing hero with the sparkly teeth.

Just so we're clear, did you just accuse Morna of wanting to be a Paladin? Are you feeling okay? Have you been concussed lately? Did someone steal your account?

Also, long live Foamy.

Now we all know sweet little vampire Morna likes long walks on the beach, flowers, puppies and haiku. She has NEVER been to Cyrodiil, she has certainly NOT PvPed alongside former Emperors, and she absolutely is NOT a member of any large PvP guilds. And she absolutely, totally, is NOT working on the Mass Murderer achievement. Nope, nope, nope. Now she's just gonna go bake you all some sweetrolls.

Editing to add: Foamy is your Lord and Master.

FadedJeans · March 2015

Aerieth wrote: »

Not all vamps are feral or evil creatures. My characters embrace Vampirism as a blessing. It has made them stronger through hardship. Good-guy Vampires unite! Say "no" to vampire discrimination!

I posit that non-feral vamps take the time to feed and don't go romping about the town square looking like a hungry lich on training wheels.

I love playing my vamp, but I think Stage 3 and 4 should illicit terror in the average citizenry.

FadedJeans · March 2015

FadedJeans wrote: »

Aerieth wrote: »

Not all vamps are feral or evil creatures. My characters embrace Vampirism as a blessing. It has made them stronger through hardship. Good-guy Vampires unite! Say "no" to vampire discrimination!

I posit that non-feral vamps take the time to feed and don't go romping about the town square looking like a hungry lich on training wheels.

I love playing my vamp, but I think Stage 3 and 4 should illicit terror in the average citizenry.