Should Vampires be KoS to Guards at Stage 4?

Raash

seriously guys, just go in here http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampire and start reading.

i mean...
"The vampires of Tamriel are undead, diseased persons who are hated, hunted, and misunderstood by the living.[1] Whether they consider themselves cursed or blessed, or whether they have given into their animalistic instincts or have sought to rid the world of the disease, vampires are nonetheless considered abominations."

They should be killed on sight and there should be a way for all us who choose to not play a diseased character to be able to spot them even in our own alliances and be able to hunt them down. It makes perfectly sense.
@zos Please make this happen!

Heishi

Raash wrote: »

seriously guys, just go in here http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampire and start reading.

i mean...
"The vampires of Tamriel are undead, diseased persons who are hated, hunted, and misunderstood by the living.[1] Whether they consider themselves cursed or blessed, or whether they have given into their animalistic instincts or have sought to rid the world of the disease, vampires are nonetheless considered abominations."

They should be killed on sight and there should be a way for all us who choose to not play a diseased character to be able to spot them even in our own alliances and be able to hunt them down. It makes perfectly sense.
@zos Please make this happen!

Were a PvP element to be incorporated, it would makes sense that the abilities already in place in the game would allow you to see players in your alliance like you already can mobs and other alliances.

As far as lore, I went on about it on the previous page, but the lore and the mechanics don't match up well, so there'd have to be alternate changes besides just kill all the vampire players.

Besides previous mentioned issues, camping refuges, griefing and other things would be huge issues.

MornaBaine

Aerieth wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

Aerieth wrote: »

For what I've experienced and read on vampirism in the Elder Scrolls universe, not feeding is a completely valid option. As far as I know, you can't - according to lore - die of starvation as you are not a mortal.

Countess Rona Hassildor of Skingrad slipped into a coma because she refused to feed, so according to lore, there are consequences. In TES IV: Oblivion the quest to cure yourself requires you to find a cure for her. By this time she has been unfed and in a coma so long that the cure kills her as well as curing her vampirism.

So no, you cannot actually die from not feeding, you might linger in some sort of undead coma which is close enough.

Awesome. Didn't know that. Thanks!
I really need to play through Oblivion at some point... For more lore knowledge if for nothing else.

*Edit:
Found this passage on UESP:
"Blood may not be needed to stay "alive", but doing without it can cause a vampire to become extremely weak and rabid, though some types of vampires will instead become stronger and more vampiric. However, they will still become rabid after too long without blood."
Sources: Lore Books "Vampires of the Iliac Bay, Chapter II" and "Journal of the Lord Lovidicus"

All of this right here is exactly why the current system makes no sense. Although I know it would never happen, I think it would be awesome if after 3 hours in Stage 4 you lost control of your character and they DID try to start feeding on anything that moved.

MornaBaine

htoncic wrote: »

Oh. Right. Kill people because it's tradition. Makes perfect sense. Not.

Then you clearly do not have an understanding of vampire lore in a general sense nor in the TES tradition and lore. What doesn't make sense is throwing all that previous games lore out the window "because MMO."

Aerieth

Raash wrote: »

seriously guys, just go in here http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampire and start reading.

i mean...
"The vampires of Tamriel are undead, diseased persons who are hated, hunted, and misunderstood by the living.[1] Whether they consider themselves cursed or blessed, or whether they have given into their animalistic instincts or have sought to rid the world of the disease, vampires are nonetheless considered abominations."

You were saying?

htoncic

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

In the game vampires are bad cursed rats and should be killed. Thus no, dont act like its a innocent being killed. Its a cursed creature who feeds on others being kos'ed.

Try harder to get the sympathy vote pls..

Ah, my old friends prejudice and bigotry. How I've missed you.

Sorry, but wrong. Allow me to explain to you how things actually work in this game. This is a thread dealing with stage 4 vampires, as you can clearly see even in the title. A vampire arrives and stays in stage 4 by NOT feeding. Let me say that in different words. A stage 4 vampire is a creature that DOESN'T feed on others. They go out of their way and endure hunger to spare innocents. If anything, they deserve commendations for being upstanding citizens.

Raash wrote: »

seriously guys, just go in here http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampire and start reading.

i mean...
"The vampires of Tamriel are undead, diseased persons who are hated, hunted, and misunderstood by the living.[1] Whether they consider themselves cursed or blessed, or whether they have given into their animalistic instincts or have sought to rid the world of the disease, vampires are nonetheless considered abominations."

They should be killed on sight and there should be a way for all us who choose to not play a diseased character to be able to spot them even in our own alliances and be able to hunt them down. It makes perfectly sense.
@zos Please make this happen!

Cherry picking much? I can play that game, too.
"..misunderstood by the living.."
"..considered abominations.."
Once again, prejudice and bigotry. Vampires did nothing wrong except exist. If a vamp goes on a killing spree, sure, put that sucker down. In fact, that's what the Justice System is all about. But leave the rest alone.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Then you clearly do not have an understanding of vampire lore in a general sense nor in the TES tradition and lore. What doesn't make sense is throwing all that previous games lore out the window "because MMO."

I have a fairly good understanding of the subject matter, and I would appreciate you not making derisive comments about me simply because I'm arguing with you over the Internet.

The fact is, there have been many villainous vampires in fiction, as there have been hero vamps, particularly in recent years. Heck, we've seen crime-fighting vamps on TV. And some that do nothing but sparkle in the sun. There are bad vampires and good vampires in fiction, just like people. What doesn't make sense to me is punishing players for a legitimate choice in character development "because lore".

Keron

Set aside lore, salt and all the other motivations for people posting in this thread, what makes you guys so adamant in having a part of the game unplayable?

In all seriousness, what else do you achieve by making "stage 4 vampires KOS" except for inconveniencing those that like to play a vampire and making their ultimate cost 7% more?

Is this worth making others lose their vampirism, the way they want to play, just for some strange and warped sense of righteousness and revenge?

Do you guys even listen to yourselves any more?

Proud non-vampire who doesn't feel the need to force others' playstyles

Aerieth

MornaBaine wrote: »

Aerieth wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

Aerieth wrote: »

For what I've experienced and read on vampirism in the Elder Scrolls universe, not feeding is a completely valid option. As far as I know, you can't - according to lore - die of starvation as you are not a mortal.

Countess Rona Hassildor of Skingrad slipped into a coma because she refused to feed, so according to lore, there are consequences. In TES IV: Oblivion the quest to cure yourself requires you to find a cure for her. By this time she has been unfed and in a coma so long that the cure kills her as well as curing her vampirism.

So no, you cannot actually die from not feeding, you might linger in some sort of undead coma which is close enough.

Awesome. Didn't know that. Thanks!
I really need to play through Oblivion at some point... For more lore knowledge if for nothing else.

*Edit:
Found this passage on UESP:
"Blood may not be needed to stay "alive", but doing without it can cause a vampire to become extremely weak and rabid, though some types of vampires will instead become stronger and more vampiric. However, they will still become rabid after too long without blood."
Sources: Lore Books "Vampires of the Iliac Bay, Chapter II" and "Journal of the Lord Lovidicus"

All of this right here is exactly why the current system makes no sense. Although I know it would never happen, I think it would be awesome if after 3 hours in Stage 4 you lost control of your character and they DID try to start feeding on anything that moved.

That idea is pretty sweet. Though the timescale should be more like months.
On another note: Potions of Blood made with alchemy? Please ZOS!

Raash

Aerieth wrote: »

Raash wrote: »

seriously guys, just go in here http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampire and start reading.

i mean...
"The vampires of Tamriel are undead, diseased persons who are hated, hunted, and misunderstood by the living.[1] Whether they consider themselves cursed or blessed, or whether they have given into their animalistic instincts or have sought to rid the world of the disease, vampires are nonetheless considered abominations."

You were saying?

Keron wrote: »

Set aside lore, salt and all the other motivations for people posting in this thread, what makes you guys so adamant in having a part of the game unplayable?

In all seriousness, what else do you achieve by making "stage 4 vampires KOS" except for inconveniencing those that like to play a vampire and making their ultimate cost 7% more?

Is this worth making others lose their vampirism, the way they want to play, just for some strange and warped sense of righteousness and revenge?

Do you guys even listen to yourselves any more?

Proud non-vampire who doesn't feel the need to force others' playstyles

Because this game need more consequences and stuff for people to pick sides on. Im tired of the " come lets make a bonfire and sing kumbaya all together"-mentality surrounding this game atm.

Aerieth

Raash wrote: »

Aerieth wrote: »

Raash wrote: »

seriously guys, just go in here http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampire and start reading.

i mean...
"The vampires of Tamriel are undead, diseased persons who are hated, hunted, and misunderstood by the living.[1] Whether they consider themselves cursed or blessed, or whether they have given into their animalistic instincts or have sought to rid the world of the disease, vampires are nonetheless considered abominations."

You were saying?

Keron wrote: »

Set aside lore, salt and all the other motivations for people posting in this thread, what makes you guys so adamant in having a part of the game unplayable?

In all seriousness, what else do you achieve by making "stage 4 vampires KOS" except for inconveniencing those that like to play a vampire and making their ultimate cost 7% more?

Is this worth making others lose their vampirism, the way they want to play, just for some strange and warped sense of righteousness and revenge?

Do you guys even listen to yourselves any more?

Proud non-vampire who doesn't feel the need to force others' playstyles

Because this game need more consequences and stuff for people to pick sides on. Im tired of the " come lets make a bonfire and sing kumbaya all together"-mentality surrounding this game atm.

If you want conflict and aggression, there are other games for that. I can think of one MOBA and one FPS franchise that have pretty aggressive communities.

Khaldar

I'm only for S4 Vamps being KoS if they rework vamps ability to manage the stages. Right now, feeding every 30 mins or so is ridiculous. They should make stages dependent on using Vamp abilities. If you use any vamp ability 2 times, you go up in a stage (or something like that). That way people who are just running around a map don't have to worry that they haven't fed in 30-120 mins and being KoS by guards.

Raash

Aerieth wrote: »

Raash wrote: »

Aerieth wrote: »

Raash wrote: »

seriously guys, just go in here http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampire and start reading.

i mean...
"The vampires of Tamriel are undead, diseased persons who are hated, hunted, and misunderstood by the living.[1] Whether they consider themselves cursed or blessed, or whether they have given into their animalistic instincts or have sought to rid the world of the disease, vampires are nonetheless considered abominations."

You were saying?

Keron wrote: »

Set aside lore, salt and all the other motivations for people posting in this thread, what makes you guys so adamant in having a part of the game unplayable?

In all seriousness, what else do you achieve by making "stage 4 vampires KOS" except for inconveniencing those that like to play a vampire and making their ultimate cost 7% more?

Is this worth making others lose their vampirism, the way they want to play, just for some strange and warped sense of righteousness and revenge?

Do you guys even listen to yourselves any more?

Proud non-vampire who doesn't feel the need to force others' playstyles

Because this game need more consequences and stuff for people to pick sides on. Im tired of the " come lets make a bonfire and sing kumbaya all together"-mentality surrounding this game atm.

If you want conflict and aggression, there are other games for that. I can think of one MOBA and one FPS franchise that have pretty aggressive communities.

*Sight* if you want towns full of pacifist npcs who just walk around waiting for all the monsters to eat them and on top of that also be happy about it then why not just mod singelplayer skyrim?
I care very little about the community tbh, but IN game there should be consequences for the players to adopt to, to define the character, such a consequence should be that if someone choose to be a bloodsucking zombie feeding on ppl ---> You wont be welcomed among them if they see that you are one!

TDLR: you shouldnt be able to keep the cake and eat it too.

Messy1

If vampires are KoS and if WW transformations are also KoS there should be Vamp enclaves and WW gatherings that they can go to. Well if it's only KoS vamps for being in vampire stage 4 then maybe no enclaves needed.

Raash

Messy1 wrote: »

If vampires are KoS and if WW transformations are also KoS there should be Vamp enclaves and WW gatherings that they can go to. Well if it's only KoS vamps for being in vampire stage 4 then maybe no enclaves needed.

There should definatly be safe havens & underground cave systems etc for vampires & WW to go to with vendors and stuff with spells or what not that could be used as disguises for vamps wanting to go into regular cities for whatever reasons if there was a change with added KoS...
As it is now with vampires running around everywhere in citie/villagess without any ingame consequence makes little to no sense, at least for me and just adds to making the game feel bland and shallow.

Thorskin

Also something to consider here is that the vampire skill line balances the positive and negative effects of being a vampire.
making stage 4 vamps be kos or flag able for pvp, you would need to balance this negative with something. I feel that forcing people who take vampire to play in this way, fundamentally goes against the core values of ESO.

To address the RP aspects of what your talking about, would allow players to be able to Flag themselves for PVP, allowing guards to attack you or players, and also making NPCs hostile to you. This would give you tools to RP that you cant go in a town, because you are "evil" or a Vampire, or for what ever you want. You could then Utilize the current Hideout system, as a base camp for your Vampire guild. This would give people the tools to opt in or out of this experience, based on what they value.

Endurance

Vampires should be KOS all across Tamriel.

WraithAzraiel

Raash wrote: »

seriously guys, just go in here http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampire and start reading.

i mean...
"The vampires of Tamriel are undead, diseased persons who are hated, hunted, and misunderstood by the living.[1] Whether they consider themselves cursed or blessed, or whether they have given into their animalistic instincts or have sought to rid the world of the disease, vampires are nonetheless considered abominations."

They should be killed on sight and there should be a way for all us who choose to not play a diseased character to be able to spot them even in our own alliances and be able to hunt them down. It makes perfectly sense.
@zos Please make this happen!

Only when I can hunt you and turn you against your will. Turnabout is fair play.

Raash

htoncic wrote: »

Cherry picking much? I can play that game, too.
"..misunderstood by the living.."
"..considered abominations.."
Once again, prejudice and bigotry. Vampires did nothing wrong except exist. If a vamp goes on a killing spree, sure, put that sucker down. In fact, that's what the Justice System is all about. But leave the rest alone.

Hmm no, doesnt seem you can play that game at all really.
My points for having vampires killed on sight in the game is written in solid rock. Your contribution? none.

WraithAzraiel

Raash wrote: »

htoncic wrote: »

Cherry picking much? I can play that game, too.
"..misunderstood by the living.."
"..considered abominations.."
Once again, prejudice and bigotry. Vampires did nothing wrong except exist. If a vamp goes on a killing spree, sure, put that sucker down. In fact, that's what the Justice System is all about. But leave the rest alone.

Hmm no, doesnt seem you can play that game at all really.
My points for having vampires killed on sight in the game is written in solid rock. Your contribution? none.

I think your definition of "solid rock" and the rest of the world's, differ greatly.

Raash

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Raash wrote: »

seriously guys, just go in here http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampire and start reading.

i mean...
"The vampires of Tamriel are undead, diseased persons who are hated, hunted, and misunderstood by the living.[1] Whether they consider themselves cursed or blessed, or whether they have given into their animalistic instincts or have sought to rid the world of the disease, vampires are nonetheless considered abominations."

They should be killed on sight and there should be a way for all us who choose to not play a diseased character to be able to spot them even in our own alliances and be able to hunt them down. It makes perfectly sense.
@zos Please make this happen!

Only when I can hunt you and turn you against your will. Turnabout is fair play.

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Raash wrote: »

htoncic wrote: »

Cherry picking much? I can play that game, too.
"..misunderstood by the living.."
"..considered abominations.."
Once again, prejudice and bigotry. Vampires did nothing wrong except exist. If a vamp goes on a killing spree, sure, put that sucker down. In fact, that's what the Justice System is all about. But leave the rest alone.

Hmm no, doesnt seem you can play that game at all really.
My points for having vampires killed on sight in the game is written in solid rock. Your contribution? none.

I think your definition of "solid rock" and the rest of the world's, differ greatly.

I dont claim to know how everyone else in the world defines "solid rock" - thats true. You dont know either.
Did you have any points to be made regarding if vampires should be killed on sight or not or you just mindlessy protecting your baby?

Dev

in the real world, the op is right. vamps would be taken down on sight

But in eso where there are ghosts walking around, 6 foot cat and lizard people, multiple types of elves and daedra meddling with things all of which while in a civil war and oh yea... dont forget the big hooks and chains trying to absorb the world itself... A vampire buying some tomatoes at the store might not be as bad as you think.

Personally i think they have the feeding system backwards. You get more bonus for ignoring the 'vampire' part of the skill line, IE no feeding leads to more power... i think that if you take the time to stay in stage 1, it should have more power. its along the lines of more reward for effort put into it.

Aerieth

People seem to mix up Bloodfiends (also known as feral vampires) with the civilized kind. I've been a vampire since early-access, because I like the concept of vampirism in Elder Scrolls. The internal struggle for blood thirst and the will to do the right thing (as in not feed on innocent people) is an interesting character feature in my opinion. Immunity to aging is another fun thing to play around when figuring out your characters lore.

And does nobody on the other side of the argument remember the quests in Rivenspire where you encountered vampires pretty much saving the day from an evil human? You saying that all vampires in ESO are hated and feared is simply not true. There are lorebooks and actual quests in-game to prove me right. No matter how many times you repeat the words: "Vampires are evil". It doesn't make it true.

There are nord bandits in the world, do you go around killing every nord because of that? There are evil vampires in the world, that doesn't mean everyone with pointy fangs and pale skin is one.

WraithAzraiel

Raash wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Raash wrote: »

seriously guys, just go in here http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampire and start reading.

i mean...
"The vampires of Tamriel are undead, diseased persons who are hated, hunted, and misunderstood by the living.[1] Whether they consider themselves cursed or blessed, or whether they have given into their animalistic instincts or have sought to rid the world of the disease, vampires are nonetheless considered abominations."

They should be killed on sight and there should be a way for all us who choose to not play a diseased character to be able to spot them even in our own alliances and be able to hunt them down. It makes perfectly sense.
@zos Please make this happen!

Only when I can hunt you and turn you against your will. Turnabout is fair play.

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Raash wrote: »

htoncic wrote: »

Cherry picking much? I can play that game, too.
"..misunderstood by the living.."
"..considered abominations.."
Once again, prejudice and bigotry. Vampires did nothing wrong except exist. If a vamp goes on a killing spree, sure, put that sucker down. In fact, that's what the Justice System is all about. But leave the rest alone.

Hmm no, doesnt seem you can play that game at all really.
My points for having vampires killed on sight in the game is written in solid rock. Your contribution? none.

I think your definition of "solid rock" and the rest of the world's, differ greatly.

I dont claim to know how everyone else in the world defines "solid rock" - thats true. You dont know either.
Did you have any points to be made regarding if vampires should be killed on sight or not or you just mindlessy protecting your baby?

I've made my points on KoS for vamps time and time again, I'm all for it. Within reason, and that reason is along the lines of Morna's original post.

I'm completely OK with Stage 4 Vampires and transformed Werewolves, incurring a bounty and being Attack on Sight by Guards. But as it stands, and likely never considering the recent AMA with Brian Wheeler, having other players jump on Stage 4 Vampires is a no go. You have Cyrodiil for that.

Don't get it twisted, I'll defend Vamp all day every day, but not blindly. I'm not against making it more dynamic and robust, (to include, but not limited to, MORE CONSEQUENCES) within the confines of what would work within an MMO. Not at all.

But I am against things like the knuckleheads that cried for Vampire to be nerfed time and time again because of Ultimate Cost Reduction stacking in PvP in the early months of the game.

If it had been ANY other Ultimate that could be brought down to THAT LOW of an Ultimate cost it would've been that Ultimate that would stamped for nerf by the whiners. But they went the extra mile, insisting that Vampire was the problem and not the fact that there was NO HARD CAP on how much you could reduce the cost of your Ultimates.

As far as the lore is concerned, if ZOS put it in the game, and has yet to change it, it's an addition/expansion to the lore provided by previous Elder Scrolls titles that are set far in Tamriel future.

Like I told Horator, who flat out refuses to read posts for the words written and instead tries to find ammunition with which to devalue the statements of others to suite his own agenda, I don't know enough about the lore surrounding Vampires in game to use it to suite my own agenda.

All I know, is what ZOS has given me to work with, that's good enough for me. Whether it's contradictory to something that's within a game set hundreds of years in the future or not, makes no nevermind to me.

So, contrary to the accusation by the aforementioned individual that I'm using "the lore when it benefits me and ignoring it when it doesn't" the above statement should clear up any and all accusations.

I'm not here to debate what-if's and should-have-been's, I'm here to point out how it doesn't matter what you or I say is "lore" ZOS has a position within it's hierarchy that does that for us.

Capisce?

phreatophile

Aerieth wrote: »

There are nord bandits in the world, do you go around killing every nord because of that? There are evil vampires in the world, that doesn't mean everyone with pointy fangs and pale skin is one.

What all Nords have in common is that they are tall pale humans. What all vampires have in common is that they are undead who must drink the blood of living humans. Your logic fails there.

Some rabid animals attack humans, we don't kill all animals, but we do kill the ones with signs of rabies.

Look, the terrible implementation in this game allows you to never feed, this is a lazy and cowardly gameplay decision, but to pretend that the common salt (aka morons) of the earth types you meet in your travels will understand that your obviously afflicted character is no danger to them even though he/she is a blood starved vampire is pretty silly.

The typical lore in ES is vampires are attacked once identifiable as vampires. This isn't Twilight. We don't get to be edgy and misundestood and sparkly. Besides that camel bug that they squashed a long time ago, we can't feed on anything other than men and mer. Once out of the coffin you need to pretty powerful and established like Verandis or the Count of Skingrad to survive; even they keep as many as possible in the dark. Vampirism is not a race, or a profession it is a disease that unless cured causes the afflicted to need other people's blood to survive, most get what they need with violence so seeing an obvious vampire means you or somebody you know is dinner.

So far, we have a few saying KOS always. It will never happen, every defining characteristic of vampirism has been gutted on the alter of MMO. Stage 4 KOS makes sense and so far all the arguments against have boiled down to "that would be hard" or translated "I want the buffs but I don't want anything do do with actually playing a vampire"

But hey, the watered down bland this is an MMO thing seems to work for ZOS and a lot of players.

DanielMaxwell

Stage 4 vampires should be KOS by guards , but also werewolves that transform in town should also be flagged as KOS . This should be part of the implementation of the PvP portion of the justice system and the guards would have to become mortal for it to be even remotely balanced.

MornaBaine

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

Stage 4 vampires should be KOS by guards , but also werewolves that transform in town should also be flagged as KOS . This should be part of the implementation of the PvP portion of the justice system and the guards would have to become mortal for it to be even remotely balanced.

I agree. I just don't think ZOS has been able to figure out a way to implement it in a way that would not be open to abuse.

Raash

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Raash wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Raash wrote: »

seriously guys, just go in here http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampire and start reading.

i mean...
"The vampires of Tamriel are undead, diseased persons who are hated, hunted, and misunderstood by the living.[1] Whether they consider themselves cursed or blessed, or whether they have given into their animalistic instincts or have sought to rid the world of the disease, vampires are nonetheless considered abominations."

They should be killed on sight and there should be a way for all us who choose to not play a diseased character to be able to spot them even in our own alliances and be able to hunt them down. It makes perfectly sense.
@zos Please make this happen!

Only when I can hunt you and turn you against your will. Turnabout is fair play.

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Raash wrote: »

htoncic wrote: »

Cherry picking much? I can play that game, too.
"..misunderstood by the living.."
"..considered abominations.."
Once again, prejudice and bigotry. Vampires did nothing wrong except exist. If a vamp goes on a killing spree, sure, put that sucker down. In fact, that's what the Justice System is all about. But leave the rest alone.

Hmm no, doesnt seem you can play that game at all really.
My points for having vampires killed on sight in the game is written in solid rock. Your contribution? none.

I think your definition of "solid rock" and the rest of the world's, differ greatly.

I dont claim to know how everyone else in the world defines "solid rock" - thats true. You dont know either.
Did you have any points to be made regarding if vampires should be killed on sight or not or you just mindlessy protecting your baby?

I've made my points on KoS for vamps time and time again, I'm all for it. Within reason, and that reason is along the lines of Morna's original post.

I'm completely OK with Stage 4 Vampires and transformed Werewolves, incurring a bounty and being Attack on Sight by Guards. But as it stands, and likely never considering the recent AMA with Brian Wheeler, having other players jump on Stage 4 Vampires is a no go. You have Cyrodiil for that.

Don't get it twisted, I'll defend Vamp all day every day, but not blindly. I'm not against making it more dynamic and robust, (to include, but not limited to, MORE CONSEQUENCES) within the confines of what would work within an MMO. Not at all.

But I am against things like the knuckleheads that cried for Vampire to be nerfed time and time again because of Ultimate Cost Reduction stacking in PvP in the early months of the game.

If it had been ANY other Ultimate that could be brought down to THAT LOW of an Ultimate cost it would've been that Ultimate that would stamped for nerf by the whiners. But they went the extra mile, insisting that Vampire was the problem and not the fact that there was NO HARD CAP on how much you could reduce the cost of your Ultimates.

As far as the lore is concerned, if ZOS put it in the game, and has yet to change it, it's an addition/expansion to the lore provided by previous Elder Scrolls titles that are set far in Tamriel future.

Like I told Horator, who flat out refuses to read posts for the words written and instead tries to find ammunition with which to devalue the statements of others to suite his own agenda, I don't know enough about the lore surrounding Vampires in game to use it to suite my own agenda.

All I know, is what ZOS has given me to work with, that's good enough for me. Whether it's contradictory to something that's within a game set hundreds of years in the future or not, makes no nevermind to me.

So, contrary to the accusation by the aforementioned individual that I'm using "the lore when it benefits me and ignoring it when it doesn't" the above statement should clear up any and all accusations.

I'm not here to debate what-if's and should-have-been's, I'm here to point out how it doesn't matter what you or I say is "lore" ZOS has a position within it's hierarchy that does that for us.

Capisce?

Fine, then you and me dont have that much to talk about really since I am actually here to discuss the "what-ifs & should have been´s".

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Yes. Kill the vamps. I wonder how many vamps are against this but consider race change against lore.

BlackEar

Nope, don't want the inconvenience.

I vote for no implementation of this idea. The lore argument is vague at best and holds no weight against actual gameplay experience.
Game design > pointless lore.

Keron

It's time this discussion gets locked down. It's so full of selfrighteous contributors (and that last is meant in the most loose sense of the word possible) that it serves only one purpose: make the less hateful readers of this forum lose their breakfast in a most painful way, no matter which opinion they have on topic.

It's bordering on disgusting to read this.