Should Vampires be KoS to Guards at Stage 4?

MornaBaine

Those who have played the earlier single player incarnations of this game often lament that nobody but other players seem to notice that their vampires are vampires. They have further lamented that Stage 4 vampires are free to walk around completely unmolested whereas in the earlier games they would have been attacked and vendors would refuse to deal with them.

Therefore several players have advocated that, as part of the upcoming justice system, that vampires who allow themselves to slip into Stage 4 should be KOS to city and town guards and NPC vendors should refuse to deal with them. Further, they have advocated that vampires be able to feed on Townies but should incur a bounty, flagging them for PvP, if they get caught/seen by another player, or the bounty should be automatic for this activity.

What do you think about these ideas? What effect would they have on PvP? Can you think of what would need to be done to implement such a system fairly? Are you for or against such a system? Please try to be clear in your replies and avoid insults and general flaming. That means please don't start your post with something like, "This is a stupid idea because..." but rather something more along the lines of, "I feel this is a bad idea because..." Thank you.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Nope, against it.

Besides the reasons I stated in the other thread, the major reason for me are 1) sometimes I just want to idle in a city, and 2) feeding every hour or two is a real pita. For the sake of convenience alone, it's a dumb idea.

People can RP this already. No reason I should be forced to experience it.

MornaBaine

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Nope, against it.

Besides the reasons I stated in the other thread, the major reason for me are 1) sometimes I just want to idle in a city, and 2) feeding every hour or two is a real pita. For the sake of convenience alone, it's a dumb idea.

People can RP this already. No reason I should be forced to experience it.

Actually, no people CAN'T "RP this already." Because there is no duel function. Which is another subject entirely. Nor is it really an RP issue to begin with. It's a PvE gameplay issue.

Aoife32001

I would say yes, they should be, given lore. Whether or not people want to RP, Elder Scrolls has always had a cohesive, lore-intensive world. Guards not allowing stage-4 vampires walking around in plain sight would clearly be a part of this.

If the complaint is having to feed every two hours... well, then introduce some sort of disguise that could be worn in town. As it is, though, it seems like a lot of vampire players want all the benefits of being a vampire but complain about every disadvantage from appearance to having to feed (the one least complained about, ironically, seems to be the fire vulnerability).

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

MornaBaine wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Nope, against it.

Besides the reasons I stated in the other thread, the major reason for me are 1) sometimes I just want to idle in a city, and 2) feeding every hour or two is a real pita. For the sake of convenience alone, it's a dumb idea.

People can RP this already. No reason I should be forced to experience it.

Actually, no people CAN'T "RP this already." Because there is no duel function. Which is another subject entirely. Nor is it really an RP issue to begin with. It's a PvE gameplay issue.

no to duels also. PvE'rs think duels are pvp, they aren't, they are not indicative of skill.

If you want to RP it, here's how it goes, don't let yourself go into a town until after you feed. RP that you don't want to be in danger of being assaulted, and feed as such. Viola! RP to be had. You are even properly inconvenienced.

It's only a PvE gameplay issue if it doesn't mess with those who do not PvE, which this would.

Aoife32001

No reason I should be forced to experience it.

Part of being a vampire is being "forced" to experience aspects of being one, from fire vulnerability to appearance to, lore-wise, being KoS by guards dedicated to protecting citizens against murder. Like I just said above, there are ways to mitigate this for you rather than requiring you to feed every two hours, but it would clearly be more immersive and lore-friendly if they were KoS in such a state.

You may not like lore and immersion, but they are part and parcel of the Elder Scrolls franchise.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Aoife32001 wrote: »

No reason I should be forced to experience it.

Part of being a vampire is being "forced" to experience aspects of being one, from fire vulnerability to appearance to, lore-wise, being KoS by guards dedicated to protecting citizens against murder. Like I just said above, there are ways to mitigate this for you rather than requiring you to feed every two hours, but it would clearly be more immersive and lore-friendly if they were KoS in such a state.

You may not like lore and immersion, but they are part and parcel of the Elder Scrolls franchise.

Dawnguard sets precedence and lore for not being KOS to guards, so you really can't use lore as an excuse.

I love lore and immersion, and it's offensive that you assume otherwise, I just don't feel lore is relative to this.

I do not complain about the other downsides of being a vampire, I am just saying the idea is stupid, and it is not something I think is necessary or a good idea for a downside. Nor do I care what a bunch of RP'rs or PvE'rs want if it affects my gameplay as well.

ZOS already pretty much does everything you guys want, and has categorically ignored pvp since day one. You can't have -everything- you want.

MornaBaine

Aoife32001 wrote: »

I would say yes, they should be, given lore. Whether or not people want to RP, Elder Scrolls has always had a cohesive, lore-intensive world. Guards not allowing stage-4 vampires walking around in plain sight would clearly be a part of this.

If the complaint is having to feed every two hours... well, then introduce some sort of disguise that could be worn in town. As it is, though, it seems like a lot of vampire players want all the benefits of being a vampire but complain about every disadvantage from appearance to having to feed (the one least complained about, ironically, seems to be the fire vulnerability).

While I think there should be some flexibility in the appearance I think the mechanics are fine and I have no beef with either the fire vulnerability or the having to feed to maintain whatever Stage you want to remain at.My only caveat there is simply that Stage 1 is just too short.

You do raise an interesting point about disguises though. I think it would be cool if we were able to acquire a disguise that was a full mask and hood. But what would make this really cool is if Townies and guards were leery of you anyway....because you're walking around wearing a mask! Clearly you're up to no good! LOL So then instead of auto-KoS, if you were wearing said disguise, there would be a smallish percentage chance that a guard would stop you and demand you show your face. Then, whether you comply or resist, you're going to end up fighting the guard. Also, once you enter combat, your disguise disappears just as it does with almost all other disguises in the game.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

MornaBaine wrote: »

Aoife32001 wrote: »

I would say yes, they should be, given lore. Whether or not people want to RP, Elder Scrolls has always had a cohesive, lore-intensive world. Guards not allowing stage-4 vampires walking around in plain sight would clearly be a part of this.

If the complaint is having to feed every two hours... well, then introduce some sort of disguise that could be worn in town. As it is, though, it seems like a lot of vampire players want all the benefits of being a vampire but complain about every disadvantage from appearance to having to feed (the one least complained about, ironically, seems to be the fire vulnerability).

While I think there should be some flexibility in the appearance I think the mechanics are fine and I have no beef with either the fire vulnerability or the having to feed to maintain whatever Stage you want to remain at.My only caveat there is simply that Stage 1 is just too short.

You do raise an interesting point about disguises though. I think it would be cool if we were able to acquire a disguise that was a full mask and hood. But what would make this really cool is if Townies and guards were leery of you anyway....because you're walking around wearing a mask! Clearly you're up to no good! LOL So then instead of auto-KoS, if you were wearing said disguise, there would be a smallish percentage chance that a guard would stop you and demand you show your face. Then, whether you comply or resist, you're going to end up fighting the guard. Also, once you enter combat, your disguise disappears just as it does with almost all other disguises in the game.

breton light helm is a ninja style mask.

I doubt they are going to waste time coding NPCs to respond to it though.

indigoblades

i would consider it another vamp nerf unless, they make the times longer between stages.... closer to a day like other TES titles ..... Anyway if the times between stages are longer i am ok with that and maybe even penalties for higher vamp stages. i all ways stay in stage 1 & 2 now anyway, since all the vamp abilites are nerfed, so a 14 to 21% reduction in vamp skill cost are not worth it to men. Also i think stage 3 & 4 vampires are too ugly.

I originally bought 3 games and 3 accounts hoping to get freinds & relatives to play. None did for various reasons but i keeped the accounts, partly because i want ESO to succeed, partly hoping i could talk them into playing. Anyway the last round of vamp nerfs in version 1.1 & 1.2 i from went 3 accounts to 2. With the night silence nerf i am going from 2 accounts to 1 account. Also i am also pissed because i lost all my setting and it takes forever to setup my settings for all alts.

Anyway next round of nerfs, i probably will quit i am losing interest.

MornaBaine

indigoblades wrote: »

i would consider it another vamp nerf unless, they make the times longer between stages.... closer to a day like other TES titles ..... Anyway if the times between stages are longer i am ok with that and maybe even penalties for higher vamp stages. i all ways stay in stage 1 & 2 now anyway, since all the vamp abilites are nerfed, so a 14 to 21% reduction in vamp skill cost are not worth it to men. Also i think stage 3 & 4 vampires are too ugly.
t.

I am completely with you on feeling that the stages all need to be MUCH longer. Honestly, if they did that and I could maintain Stage 1 for hours instead of HALF an hour I'd be a perfectly happy camper. I'd still want a "normal" disguise of some sort for RP purposes but I would be ridiculously happy just to be able to keep my Stage 1 appearance for a more reasonable amount of time.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Oh good, longer stages, then we could do this AND I'd be stuck in stage 3 the entire time. That sounds like a great compromise.

Nope.

Nox_Aeterna

Nope , also against this.

This is not a TES single player game , the player cant control time and space by pressing the console comand.

That is the reason in ESO it would be silly to have this OR to have vampires get daylight dmg.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Nope , also against this.

This is not a TES single player game , the player cant control time and space by pressing the console comand.

That is the reason in ESO it would be silly to have this OR to have vampires get daylight dmg.

Once again, I find us in agreement.

MornaBaine wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Aoife32001 wrote: »

No reason I should be forced to experience it.

Part of being a vampire is being "forced" to experience aspects of being one, from fire vulnerability to appearance to, lore-wise, being KoS by guards dedicated to protecting citizens against murder. Like I just said above, there are ways to mitigate this for you rather than requiring you to feed every two hours, but it would clearly be more immersive and lore-friendly if they were KoS in such a state.

You may not like lore and immersion, but they are part and parcel of the Elder Scrolls franchise.

Dawnguard sets precedence and lore for not being KOS to guards, so you really can't use lore as an excuse.

I love lore and immersion, and it's offensive that you assume otherwise, I just don't feel lore is relative to this.

I do not complain about the other downsides of being a vampire, I am just saying the idea is stupid, and it is not something I think is necessary or a good idea for a downside. Nor do I care what a bunch of RP'rs or PvE'rs want if it affects my gameplay as well.

ZOS already pretty much does everything you guys want, and has categorically ignored pvp since day one. You can't have -everything- you want.

You're offended that your love of immersion is in doubt? Offended??? You who cannot respond to anything without using the words "stupid" and "dumb?" And yet we're supposed to pat your hand and give you a cookie because mean ol ZoS won't pay enough attention to PvP to suit you? What's that phrase you "hardcore" PvPers like to use so much? Oh yes, I have it...

Your tears are delicious.

jesus christ your nerd rage is hilarious. I can't figure out why you have this need to personally attack me to get a point across.

Sometimes, in life people are going to disagree with you. They may even (especially on the internet) use hyperbole to do so. Breathe deep, and relax. Life will continue as it was afterwards.

I'm not a hardcore pvp'r btw, and I don't know what phrase it is that we "use so much." You will have to enlighten me.

If "nerd rage" involves giggling at hypocrisy, color me guilty. And I did "enlighten" you. Learn to read.

Now, do you actually have any real reasons for opposing this aside from "it would POSSIBLY inconvenience me sometimes?" What, if anything, WOULD make such a system acceptable to you?

I think would definitely inconvenience me is a pretty good argument against it. Especially since I would also be in stage 3 for part of my pvp time.

Let me state this clearly so you can grasp it: I disagree with you, I don't like the idea. That is okay, different people have different opinions. We, as adults (I assume, anyway) don't have to personally attack people that disagree with us. We can have a civil conversation instead. In fact, it's rather counter-intuitive to make a thread about the issue and then flip out at people who disagree.

You are obviously quite mad that anyone would dare to question you or feel differently about a topic. That is an issue with yourself, not with me. This is not something worth raging over. So dial it back a notch, okay?

The disagreeing is fine. It was your IMMEDIATE hurling of insults that made me dislike you. I won't lose sleep over you nor am I angry, but nope, I don't like you because I find you to be both rude and hypocritical. You tell me to dial it back a notch yet it was you who went on the offensive with the nerd rage and the insults. Not I.

Oh right, because I hurled insults, as opposed to the string of personal attacks you made at made after I disagreed. Right, you are confusing my posts with yours.

I don't care if you don't like me. It's not my problem, I can't be friends with everyone, and if this makers you dislike me, well you are far too high strung for my tastes, anyway.

None of that means we can't have a civil discourse though. There are many people in life you will dislike, sometimes you have to talk to them or work with them. Generally one does not do this by personally attacking them. We grit our teeth and respond in a polite manner, because that's how society works.

Wow...just....wow. You OPEN by calling me stupid (something I have yet to do to you) you do EXACTLY what I asked everyone NOT to do in my opening thread to this post...and now you're going to play the injured party? The mind boggles.
/ignore

rofl, so much rage you ignore me. A feature only used by the most angry of passive aggressives. I looked back at my posts, and I don't see where I called you stupid. I didn't. But whatever, rage on.

MornaBaine

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Nope , also against this.

This is not a TES single player game , the player cant control time and space by pressing the console comand.

That is the reason in ESO it would be silly to have this OR to have vampires get daylight dmg.

Actually vampires do suffer debuffs during daylight (or buffs at night depending on how you want to look at it) but are still overall disadvantaged because, for reasons unknown to me, days are longer than nights in this game. But aside from that, I'm not sure i understand your objection? Can you elaborate?

Salinea

I 100% agree with guards and others at least having some sort of reaction to you. It's absolutely adorable (sarcasm) that in Rivenspire where people are being overrun by vampires, that no one realizes that my pulsing veiny white skin and blood shot white eyes definitely doesn't mean I'm one of them too. The thing about feeding though is, and I'm not sure Zeni realizes this...a lot of people play for much longer than just half an hour and it seems really really quick to progress to the next stage. Or they can keep the stage 1 time and at least let me look like a normal living being at 1 (also, stop giving non human races human eyes when they get vampirism...I'm a dunmer, the whites of my eyes are black and my irises are large...why is stage one such a profound change?). Count Verandis doesn't reveal his hand until you see him later at his castle. Why can't I do the same thing after being well and properly fed? The lack of recognition is just really shocking in this whole zone and makes the sense of immersion plummet for me. I'm constantly bitching about captain obvious moments when I interact with the NPCs. I might make my own post detailing some changes I'd like to see with vamp.

MornaBaine

Salinea wrote: »

I 100% agree with guards and others at least having some sort of reaction to you. It's absolutely adorable (sarcasm) that in Rivenspire where people are being overrun by vampires, that no one realizes that my pulsing veiny white skin and blood shot white eyes definitely doesn't mean I'm one of them too. The thing about feeding though is, and I'm not sure Zeni realizes this...a lot of people play for much longer than just half an hour and it seems really really quick to progress to the next stage. Or they can keep the stage 1 time and at least let me look like a normal living being at 1 (also, stop giving non human races human eyes when they get vampirism...I'm a dunmer, the whites of my eyes are black and my irises are large...why is stage one such a profound change?). Count Verandis doesn't reveal his hand until you see him later at his castle. Why can't I do the same thing after being well and properly fed? The lack of recognition is just really shocking in this whole zone and makes the sense of immersion plummet for me. I'm constantly bitching about captain obvious moments when I interact with the NPCs. I might make my own post detailing some changes I'd like to see with vamp.

Please do! I would be super interested to see your ideas!

Nox_Aeterna

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Nope , also against this.

This is not a TES single player game , the player cant control time and space by pressing the console comand.

That is the reason in ESO it would be silly to have this OR to have vampires get daylight dmg.

Once again, I find us in agreement.

That does happen :P.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Nope , also against this.

This is not a TES single player game , the player cant control time and space by pressing the console comand.

That is the reason in ESO it would be silly to have this OR to have vampires get daylight dmg.

Actually vampires do suffer debuffs during daylight (or buffs at night depending on how you want to look at it) but are still overall disadvantaged because, for reasons unknown to me, days are longer than nights in this game. But aside from that, I'm not sure i understand your objection? Can you elaborate?

You mean the passive stealth speed? Cause i dont remember anything else that changes other than that.

My idea is quite simple , since not like in a single player TES game , a player cant just change what time of the day it is instantly(or change anything pretty much for that matter on the console) , it is important to consider things that would limit the player.

The point being here , by adding this on the justice system for example , you will toss the player by being a vampire into the PvP system , it is know that plenty of players would rather unsub than play a open world PvP game , which is what you would be tossing all vampires into. Can they avoid it? Yeah sure. Keep feeding your char nonstop or be killed by players... Dont think that will cut it.

Also , this logic that people are using here is not even backed up by lore itself. By lore one can consider every vampire player in ESO a "vampire lord" like those from skyrim , which never had any problems with guards,shops... even on stage 4.


One can also use the same argument you used:

MornaBaine wrote: »

Therefore several players have advocated that, as part of the upcoming justice system, that vampires who allow themselves to slip into Stage 4 should be KOS to city and town guards and NPC vendors should refuse to deal with them.

Several players are also against this.

BBSooner

I hope they are.Not only does it add lore flavor, it actually provides a con for being stage 4. There should be a reason to feed, a vampire perma-starving themselves shouldn't be a good thing; that is to say, the benefits of starving shouldn't outweigh the cons.

Kastle.Bb14_ESO

I would like this, it would be a helpful reminder of what stage im in, although vampire stage times would need to be increased.

Aoife32001

Dawnguard sets precedence and lore for not being KOS to guards, so you really can't use lore as an excuse.

And in Morrowind vampires are widely viewed as an abomination actively hunted by the Temple and abhorred by the people. Bosmer don't mind "skin-changers" but Nords actively hunt werewolves. Altmer abhor daedric summoning, on the whole, and Dunmer, at various times, revere daedra.

We could always make vampires KoS in certain areas and not others, if that would be better. It would certainly be more lore friendly

Also, whether or not ZoS will bother to add a "disguise vampirism" outfit to the game is, unfortunately, beyond our control. It seems it would rectify this situation though by giving both sides a portion of what they want.

Aoife32001

The point being here , by adding this on the justice system for example , you will toss the player by being a vampire into the PvP system , it is know that plenty of players would rather unsub than play a open world PvP game , which is what you would be tossing all vampires into. Can they avoid it? Yeah sure. Keep feeding your char nonstop or be killed by players... Dont think that will cut it.

My suggestion above would already resolve this issue by permitting disguises that hide vampirism when the player wants to be in stage 4 and not be KoS.

By lore one can consider every vampire player in ESO a "vampire lord" like those from skyrim , which never had any problems with guards,shops... even on stage 4.

Not really... Lamae is the vampire matron of the line. All other playable ESO vampires are derivative from her.

Also, as I just noted, just because vampires in the Fourth Era in Skyrim are not KoS does not mean they would never be KoS anywhere at any time (they clearly are in Morrowind, for example). Again, as noted above, perhaps they should be KoS in certain towns/regions, and not in others.

Nebthet78

I like this idea of being KOS or run out of town by guards at Stage 4 when the justice system is released.

Immersion is something that is deeply missing from this game. It drives me nuts that the decisions I have made in the game have had absolutely no affect on any NPC I interact with.

The fact that my character is a vampire is completely ignored by NPCs, even when they are bitching about vampires being a problem. The fact that other vampires like Verandis don't recognize that I am also vampire is befuddling.

Perhaps the very nature of MMOs is the requirement of the game to hand hold players through the main story and pretty much all quests, and that is hugely disappointing to see with the Elder Scrolls Lore being involved.
Don't get me wrong, I like the storylines and I like questing, but it feels hollow and heartless the more and more I play.

I highly doubt the developers are going to go back and add in these options any time soon, if at all. At least not on the content that is already finished, but it would be great to see them take the opportunity in the future to start expanding the available story line and options our PCs can take, to allow us to flesh out our characters more, and I don't just mean for those playing vamps and what not.

I still feel this game was rolled out way too soon. Perhaps the budget for making the game was being exhausted faster than anticipated and they had to roll it out when they did in order to gain some revenue to keep going. Who knows. But there is a lot to be desired for ALL classes and races we are able to play in this game. More skills for ALL of them need to be added. More options for an individuals decisions in game need to be made.

But I digress.

Having this option when the justice system is released, I feel, will at least bring in a small taste of immersion back into this game. It was force an additional penalty to the vampire line, which will in turn need to be balanced by another option like a diguise or glamour affect for Stages 1-3, But Stage 4 will still need to remain as an automatic penalty.

In reality though, there will most likely be a lot of opposition to something like this from a lot of vampire players.

Players in general for any Elder Scrolls game want to feel powerful and god-like. In all other ES single player games you could do this. Unfortunately, in an MMO you have to have balance, you can't be a God in a game such as this, but it doesn't stop players from trying, and then bitching and whining because another set of players developed their Toons better and learned how to take advantage of a perceived weakness, and complain until things are nerfed, instead of learning how to evolve and play their Toons better. Why do you think most players in PVP are vampires.

Unfortunately this is going to most likely become an circled argument like your other thread with people not wanting to accept another person's view as being just as valid as their own.

MornaBaine

I think the "problem" for me now is that vampirism is just another skill line, just some different spells. You don't FEEL like a vampire as you did in the other games and the NPCs certainly don't ever recognize you as one, no matter how hideously undead-looking you become. You're not sneaking into people's houses and feeding on them as they sleep, townies aren't spooked by your eyes with their "bad hunger" and now that they've destroyed the Night's Silence set you've even lost your preternatural speed. We're supposedly "stronger" at night but the nights are half the length of the days. So we're stuck with hideous and obvious looks..which no one actually SEES except other players. So if ZoS does not get their collective heads out of their arses regarding vampires and start doing SOMETHING to make them both interesting and enjoyable to play... I kinda DON'T see the point in keeping my sub.

BloodStorm

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Nope, against it.

Besides the reasons I stated in the other thread, the major reason for me are 1) sometimes I just want to idle in a city, and 2) feeding every hour or two is a real pita. For the sake of convenience alone, it's a dumb idea.

People can RP this already. No reason I should be forced to experience it.

ZoS could implement another stage or option that makes us vampires KoS but the option/ 5th stage would not make you more powerful. It would just flag you for towns. If justice system does well though and gives the player who has a bounty on you your exact location or a compass then I would be cool with it. That means players can hide\wait in vampire houses already in the game. I can see players waiting inside Ravenwatch somewhere would be fun. Again, if the justice system turns out incredible KoS for stage 4 could just fade away and I admit does give more flexibility for all types of players.

BloodStorm

DagothMacellarius wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Nope, against it.

Besides the reasons I stated in the other thread, the major reason for me are 1) sometimes I just want to idle in a city, and 2) feeding every hour or two is a real pita. For the sake of convenience alone, it's a dumb idea.

People can RP this already. No reason I should be forced to experience it.

they could implement another stage or option that makes us vampires KoS but the option/ 5th stage would not make you more powerful. It would just flag you for towns. If justice system does well though and gives the player who has a bounty on you your exact location or a compass then I would be cool with it. That means players can hide\wait in vampire houses already in the game.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Nope, against it.

Besides the reasons I stated in the other thread, the major reason for me are 1) sometimes I just want to idle in a city, and 2) feeding every hour or two is a real pita. For the sake of convenience alone, it's a dumb idea.

People can RP this already. No reason I should be forced to experience it.

Actually, no people CAN'T "RP this already." Because there is no duel function. Which is another subject entirely. Nor is it really an RP issue to begin with. It's a PvE gameplay issue.

no to duels also. PvE'rs think duels are pvp, they aren't, they are not indicative of skill.

If you want to RP it, here's how it goes, don't let yourself go into a town until after you feed. RP that you don't want to be in danger of being assaulted, and feed as such. Viola! RP to be had. You are even properly inconvenienced.

It's only a PvE gameplay issue if it doesn't mess with those who do not PvE, which this would.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Nope, against it.

Besides the reasons I stated in the other thread, the major reason for me are 1) sometimes I just want to idle in a city, and 2) feeding every hour or two is a real pita. For the sake of convenience alone, it's a dumb idea.

People can RP this already. No reason I should be forced to experience it.

Actually, no people CAN'T "RP this already." Because there is no duel function. Which is another subject entirely. Nor is it really an RP issue to begin with. It's a PvE gameplay issue.

no to duels also. PvE'rs think duels are pvp, they aren't, they are not indicative of skill.

If you want to RP it, here's how it goes, don't let yourself go into a town until after you feed. RP that you don't want to be in danger of being assaulted, and feed as such. Viola! RP to be had. You are even properly inconvenienced.

It's only a PvE gameplay issue if it doesn't mess with those who do not PvE, which this would.

The player bounties from the justice system in ESO will bring dueling when you get a contract to hunt other players down and of course 1 vs 1. Not exactly dueling but is 1v1. Also many people including myself dont consider Cyrodill as fun pvp. When AD has 2-3 times the players as your faction/campaign it becomes a faceroll. Also PvP stands for " player vs player " not " players vs players " if you want to get technical. Only weak people dismiss a individuals skill or strong character. Went off topic but saying 1 vs 1 is not real pvp is incredibly odd.

raglau

"smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote:

No reason I should be forced to experience it.

There is a reason to be forced to do it; we are ill and have a disease. Therefore the game should force us to experience those effects in the same way I am forced to experience the result of falling from a great height.

Whatever next, people saying they should not be 'forced' to suffer falling damage and instead they RP being dead after a 100 foot drop, with the only thing being forced is to mindlessly mash 5 buttons over and over?

As someone else says, you just don't feel like a vampire because it is weakly implemented.

Mainly I enjoy the game despite the simplicity, but often I wonder if its simplicity is merely design laziness. There's missed opportunities here.

Vizier

Absolutely. Stage 4 vamps should be be classified as criminal and open season for vampire hunters. This is a prrrrfect mechanism for open world PvP, role play and immersion throughout Tamriel.

They would need to make each stage of vampirism last much much longer though. It is not reasonable for vampires needing to feed every 20 minutes. That time-frame should never have existed in the first place IMO. For those that don't want to be vamp 4 it's a constant need to feed. Make it every 24 hours and offer vampires a haven they can retreat to such as Castle Rivenspire for DC they can provision, feed and sell goods. This way there is a reasonable and lore friendly alternative for them to function in game and if they don't want to participate in PvP they have lots of time to ensure they aren't Vamp 4.

There should be a fighters guild Vamp Hunter achievement necessary to be part of the other side an Fighters Guild and Vamp Faction should be mutually exclusive.

I would LOVE to see this or something like it implemented. You bet.

Ragefist

I am afraid lore cannot be used to justify this change, as for kids "Skyrim = Lore" and Bethesda already destroyed any immersion there for sake of appeasing kids

Generally kids want all the benefits but no restrictions. Forget the fact that feeding before you enter settlement would only take you a minute, as much time as when you enter bank to pickup something. Kids simply want everything easymode

You can already see this by raging about the stealth speed fix. They abused this obviously broken mechanic and it made them feel cool and leet so now they keep trying to justify it.

Unfortunately I have forseen this even before beta, as soon as vampire/ww were announced by devs. Remember how hard was to cure yourself in Morrowind, how it was in Oblivion and .... ok lets forget Skyrim.

As much as I would love to see this Morna, I seriously doubt ZOS would do that to anger the kids, largest customer base

MornaBaine

Ragefist wrote: »

I am afraid lore cannot be used to justify this change, as for kids "Skyrim = Lore" and Bethesda already destroyed any immersion there for sake of appeasing kids

Generally kids want all the benefits but no restrictions. Forget the fact that feeding before you enter settlement would only take you a minute, as much time as when you enter bank to pickup something. Kids simply want everything easymode

You can already see this by raging about the stealth speed fix. They abused this obviously broken mechanic and it made them feel cool and leet so now they keep trying to justify it.

Unfortunately I have forseen this even before beta, as soon as vampire/ww were announced by devs. Remember how hard was to cure yourself in Morrowind, how it was in Oblivion and .... ok lets forget Skyrim.

As much as I would love to see this Morna, I seriously doubt ZOS would do that to anger the kids, largest customer base

Since the Night's Silence on vampires broke the second you entered combat and didn't help you much IN COMBAT at all, there was no reason to nerf it. THAT was ALSO done to appease the crying kiddies because they weren't willing to give up armor sets that gave them combat advantages but resented that they couldn't have those advantages AND move with, dare I say it?... VAMPIRE-like preternatural speed. Trust me, my Night's Silence set did NOT confer any uber-leet advantages to me in Cyrodil. I die plenty! LOL What DID it do for me? It gave me FUN and made it feel like I was actually playing a vampire. But frankly, this is another topic and one for which there are already numerous other threads.

As to the topic at hand, I really hope ZoS does not permit this crowd to ruin this game as I have seen them do to so many other MMOs. Games end up chasing this demographic simply because it is being perceived as large but what they fail to realize is that these people are locusts. They will gobble up all a game's resources as devs keep scrambling to push out new content for them to chew through almost instantly and then demand more while neglecting core fixes and, I dare say, yes, the "fluff" that adds detail, immersion and enjoyment to a game and makes it feel finished and complex. And once these locusts have gobbled up all the resources a game has to give, they are off to the next shiny field/game without a thought to the decimation they have left behind. And another game with a ton of potential goes down in flames because a greedy company can't wrap their heads around the fact that they CANNOT build customer loyalty with this desperately sought after demographic.

Stx

Yes, absolutely. Mainly I agree with this because I just hate Vampires.

...


Lol, kidding.

No, while I do support making this game as similar to the single player games as possible, I don't see how this would work. The time it takes to reach stage 4 is too short, and players would get killed just by doing some trading in a major city or going afk. Unless they increased the amount of time it takes to reach stage 4 by a lot, then I don't think this is a fair idea.

I would be in favor of guards or NPC's uttering harsh lines of dialogue at stage 4 vamps as they passed by... or perhaps merchants refusing to do business with them.