Rise of the planet of the Sorcs

Keron · March 2015

Make it so that you can only stack shields coming from different resources. You have one ultimate (barrier), you have those weapon based ones (brawler, shield rush) and you have the plethora of magicka based ones.

If you could only stack them if they are based on different resources and give sorcs an option to morph ward to stamina, it would still work, even without nerfs, but would prevent excessive stacking. Just an idea I just had, don't know if it would work out.

EDIT: to elaborate a little further:
If you do the above, the sorc would have to make a call whether to have a very strong shield that is based on the same resource as his offense abilities but forego the possibility of easily stacking shields or alternatively to move his strong shield that would then be not so very strong onto his secondary resource (thus making it much less strong and "synergizing") but retain the option of stacking it with e.g. healing ward or harness.

Derra · March 2015

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

So, 3 of you not only couldn't kill one person, but you all got killed by that one person. I dunno bruh, sounds like a L2P issue to me. Regardless of class make up, any 3 equally skilled players will kill 1 player in a 3v1. Coming to the forums and complaining that you couldn't 3v1 someone doesn't help your case.

Potatoes gonna potate.

Oh get lost with your l2p crud. I been playin pvp b4 u were born. Read the post, read between the lines, not just the one line, b4 you retort with your cliche non-answer.

I planted this post to get some insight, not noob-sight.

Well he is right. No need to be b*tthurt about it. If three players regardless of class can´t fight a sorc in a 3v1 where the sorc does not streak away and seperates them and then beats three players in three seperate 1v1 - it´s a l2p issue. Simple as that.

The issue most players have is targetting a bolting sorc actually. They´re not fast enough giving the sorc an edge bc they waste combat time not using skills (whereas the sorc is).

PainfulFAFA · March 2015

SORC

Galalin · March 2015

ratgoddess495 wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Nerf sorcs.... nerf shield stacking.... kk ty. Ahh it feels good to cry for nerfs... now i see why everyone loved crying nerf for dk's

DK SCRUB OUT

Galalin, why don't you tell these guys how well my hardened ward protected me from lethal arrow and wrecking blows tonight.

I just wanted to jump on a nerf thread for once instead of being the topic for once

DK SCRUB OUT

Cinnamon_Spider · March 2015

Galalin wrote: »

ratgoddess495 wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Nerf sorcs.... nerf shield stacking.... kk ty. Ahh it feels good to cry for nerfs... now i see why everyone loved crying nerf for dk's

DK SCRUB OUT

Galalin, why don't you tell these guys how well my hardened ward protected me from lethal arrow and wrecking blows tonight.

I just wanted to jump on a nerf thread for once instead of being the topic for once

DK SCRUB OUT

Well, we can't have you feeling left out. Nerf Galalin!

SafiyerAmitora · March 2015

ratgoddess495 wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

ratgoddess495 wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Nerf sorcs.... nerf shield stacking.... kk ty. Ahh it feels good to cry for nerfs... now i see why everyone loved crying nerf for dk's

DK SCRUB OUT

Galalin, why don't you tell these guys how well my hardened ward protected me from lethal arrow and wrecking blows tonight.

I just wanted to jump on a nerf thread for once instead of being the topic for once

DK SCRUB OUT

Well, we can't have you feeling left out. Nerf Galalin!

Where's that dang LOL button when you need it?!

Galalin · March 2015

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

ratgoddess495 wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Nerf sorcs.... nerf shield stacking.... kk ty. Ahh it feels good to cry for nerfs... now i see why everyone loved crying nerf for dk's

DK SCRUB OUT

Galalin, why don't you tell these guys how well my hardened ward protected me from lethal arrow and wrecking blows tonight.

I just wanted to jump on a nerf thread for once instead of being the topic for once

DK SCRUB OUT

Well, we can't have you feeling left out. Nerf Galalin!

If they nerf DK's anymore i will be nothing but a sorc's vanity pet to tote around

hey maybe i could make some gold doing that

DK SCRUB OUT

WRX · March 2015

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

So been a lot of QQ on here recently from sorcs.

Funny how every campaign I tried tonight was infested with invincible sorcs zapping through the air and pwning everything in sight.

Had a lame 3v1 and it was like fighting a Jedi until we were dead and he zapped his merry way like Santa on acid.

Could I have the same nerf on my NB plz that the sorcs have been whining about, its seems to have done them wonders.

The imagery in this post was spot on.

Made me laugh

Snit · March 2015

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

Instant shield stacking is the real culprit here, its just that on a sorc one of the shields is based off their dps resource pool so they get a double benefit of offense and defense by stacking magika. This is what needs fixing.

You mean, similar to the way Templar's Healing and Damage are based on the same resource pool? Or perhaps you mean, it's similar to the way every stamina build increases their ability to block and dodge roll? You're referring to how pretty much everyone can simultaneously build for DPS and Survivability?

AriBoh · March 2015

Snit wrote: »

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

Instant shield stacking is the real culprit here, its just that on a sorc one of the shields is based off their dps resource pool so they get a double benefit of offense and defense by stacking magika. This is what needs fixing.

You mean, similar to the way Templar's Healing and Damage are based on the same resource pool? Or perhaps you mean, it's similar to the way every stamina build increases their ability to block and dodge roll? You're referring to how pretty much everyone can simultaneously build for DPS and Survivability?

I was referring to shields and dps specifically. All you whiny sorc ***** get your shield based off your magika pool. Who else gets another 10k hp pool by increasing their dps? And lets put a templar at the same stats the typical sorc has in cyrodiil - 20k hp 30k magika 10k stamina. that templar gets a measly 6k shield. 6000. thats 2 non crit crushing shocks or 1 non crit crystal frag from a sorc with the same stats. And you know what? that crystal frag will knock me on my ass too with no shield free for you to shock me into a little pile of ash. Even adding another shield into the fray wont help the templar more because even if you dont break the shields I'm continually having to refresh my 6 second blazing shield, which loses half of its dreaded utility for 'returning damage' cause its melee range and no sorc on this forum of min/maxing crybaby pc master race tosspots is even thinking about being melee cause then you couldn't hide behind your OP infinite shields and rake in the AP.

Snit · March 2015

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

I was referring to shields and dps specifically. All you whiny sorc ***** get your shield based off your magika pool. Who else gets another 10k hp pool by increasing their dps?

The purpose of HP is to not die. It's a survivability stat. Shields, Heals, Damage Mitigation/ Avoidance - they're all tools for the same thing, not dying.

Most classes can stack a stat which increases both DPS and survivability. Sorcs being able to stack magicka for shields is no different from Templars stacking magicka (or spell damage) for heals. Or from stam builds stacking stamina for dodge rolls. In every case, the character raises one stat to simultaneously increase their DPS and the effective hit points.

You have to look at class skills in context. Nobody has one skill on their bar.

Xsorus · March 2015

Snit wrote: »

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

I was referring to shields and dps specifically. All you whiny sorc ***** get your shield based off your magika pool. Who else gets another 10k hp pool by increasing their dps?

The purpose of HP is to not die. It's a survivability stat. Shields, Heals, Damage Mitigation/ Avoidance - they're all tools for the same thing, not dying.

Most classes can stack a stat which increases both DPS and survivability. Sorcs being able to stack magicka for shields is no different from Templars stacking magicka (or spell damage) for heals. Or from stam builds stacking stamina for dodge rolls. In every case, the character raises one stat to simultaneously increase their DPS and the effective hit points.

You have to look at class skills in context. Nobody has one skill on their bar.

This isn't true, you need hp on both the Templar and the stamina user in your comparison becauses heals are reactive and shields are proactive. You can't preheal in this game basically. So you need hp or in sorcs case shields to give you time to cast said heals

If you think you can stack just one stat in the Templar or stamina user, go try it, see how long you last with no shields and 13k-17k hp

Skafsgaard · March 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

So, 3 of you not only couldn't kill one person, but you all got killed by that one person. I dunno bruh, sounds like a L2P issue to me. Regardless of class make up, any 3 equally skilled players will kill 1 player in a 3v1. Coming to the forums and complaining that you couldn't 3v1 someone doesn't help your case.

Potatoes gonna potate.

Oh get lost with your l2p crud. I been playin pvp b4 u were born. Read the post, read between the lines, not just the one line, b4 you retort with your cliche non-answer.

I planted this post to get some insight, not noob-sight.

Every class has a screw sorc option and if you slot it and use it, most sorcs will run away looking for an easier target. Templar: eclipse. DK: scales. NB: fear.

Templar eclipse is bugged, see this thread; http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159654/13-of-templar-abilities-have-game-breaking-bugs#latest

If I cast eclipse on sorc, I get to cast nothing for the duration of 6 secs - which is why I rely on defensive stance, as a magicka templar. This makes it feel like I at least have a fighting chance against unskilled/unfocused sorc.

And fear is not anti sorc, it's just anti every damn build you would ever encounter.

also - introduce dispels to the game /thread

ToRelax · March 2015

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

Instant shield stacking is the real culprit here, its just that on a sorc one of the shields is based off their dps resource pool so they get a double benefit of offense and defense by stacking magika. This is what needs fixing.

You mean, similar to the way Templar's Healing and Damage are based on the same resource pool? Or perhaps you mean, it's similar to the way every stamina build increases their ability to block and dodge roll? You're referring to how pretty much everyone can simultaneously build for DPS and Survivability?

I was referring to shields and dps specifically. All you whiny sorc ***** get your shield based off your magika pool. Who else gets another 10k hp pool by increasing their dps? And lets put a templar at the same stats the typical sorc has in cyrodiil - 20k hp 30k magika 10k stamina. that templar gets a measly 6k shield. 6000. thats 2 non crit crushing shocks or 1 non crit crystal frag from a sorc with the same stats. And you know what? that crystal frag will knock me on my ass too with no shield free for you to shock me into a little pile of ash. Even adding another shield into the fray wont help the templar more because even if you dont break the shields I'm continually having to refresh my 6 second blazing shield, which loses half of its dreaded utility for 'returning damage' cause its melee range and no sorc on this forum of min/maxing crybaby pc master race tosspots is even thinking about being melee cause then you couldn't hide behind your OP infinite shields and rake in the AP.

Templars can use Harness magicka and every other shield but Conjured Ward that the Sorc can use just as well.
In fact, Blazing shield is better against melee (both magicka and stamina) than Hardened Ward. When stacked with Harness Magicka, magicka melee doesn't have much of a chance against a Templar.
Against ranged magicka users, it's not much of a difference as you want to use Harness Magicka as much as possible, and the shield is big enough to absorb most damage, np with the teplar healing at all.
Against ranged stamina, Hardened Ward is better than Blazing Shield in most cases, even though the templar has much better healing and cleansing capabilities than the sorcerer, the Sorc will survive bursts easier and be able to do more pressure.
And all that is nothing new, was the same in 1.5 already.

Phoenix99 · March 2015

so the main problem with sorc from day 1 was the how broken is bolt escape in a PvP situation. Ability to engage and disengage at will is huge and unless you snare the dude in the magic null blob ultimate you kind of have to rely on some heavy burst... it was always the story, no wonder that once dks and vamps were put to more balanced state there is a lot of sorc spam *shrug* and on top of superior mobility they can dish out huge burst dmg, what's not to love? you engage if you don't burst, you disengage, then regen, and then engage again and fish for a crit on a crystal shard for 15k+ dmg so then you can finish your target with other spells

Galalin · March 2015

Phoenix99 wrote: »

so the main problem with sorc from day 1 was the how broken is bolt escape in a PvP situation. Ability to engage and disengage at will is huge and unless you snare the dude in the magic null blob ultimate you kind of have to rely on some heavy burst... it was always the story, no wonder that once dks and vamps were put to more balanced state there is a lot of sorc spam *shrug* and on top of superior mobility they can dish out huge burst dmg, what's not to love? you engage if you don't burst, you disengage, then regen, and then engage again and fish for a crit on a crystal shard for 15k+ dmg so then you can finish your target with other spells

^^^^^ this

AriBoh · March 2015

Snit wrote: »

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

I was referring to shields and dps specifically. All you whiny sorc ***** get your shield based off your magika pool. Who else gets another 10k hp pool by increasing their dps?

The purpose of HP is to not die. It's a survivability stat. Shields, Heals, Damage Mitigation/ Avoidance - they're all tools for the same thing, not dying.

Most classes can stack a stat which increases both DPS and survivability. Sorcs being able to stack magicka for shields is no different from Templars stacking magicka (or spell damage) for heals. Or from stam builds stacking stamina for dodge rolls. In every case, the character raises one stat to simultaneously increase their DPS and the effective hit points.

You have to look at class skills in context. Nobody has one skill on their bar.

Heals are not as useful as shields ever, how can taking precious seconds restoring hp be better than that hp not getting hit at all? I suppose you'll say 'you can heal with a shield up' yeah I can add more than double to my resource usage to heal away under a shield that by the time I'm finished healing you will have either broken again because mine is based off hp and can't be as effective as yours unless I want to do half my dps, or it's pathetic duration will have expired so I have to spend more resources recasting it and more time with you getting free hits in.

And if you are so focused on pushing other skills into a discussion about shields, bolt escape is the best mitigation in the game just don't be in the fight anymore take no damage to hp or shields.
You have burst heals from your pets unsummon, but sorcs moan and complain about being 'toglemancers' and wont even use something, even if not optimal, that could bolster an area in which they are sorely lacking.

And go on then, make a templar and stack just magika see how you do. Enjoy those 3k blazing shields you have to cast constantly and healing through the 7-12k hits that will get though while you do. All 2 of them.

ToRelax wrote: »

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

Instant shield stacking is the real culprit here, its just that on a sorc one of the shields is based off their dps resource pool so they get a double benefit of offense and defense by stacking magika. This is what needs fixing.

You mean, similar to the way Templar's Healing and Damage are based on the same resource pool? Or perhaps you mean, it's similar to the way every stamina build increases their ability to block and dodge roll? You're referring to how pretty much everyone can simultaneously build for DPS and Survivability?

I was referring to shields and dps specifically. All you whiny sorc ***** get your shield based off your magika pool. Who else gets another 10k hp pool by increasing their dps? And lets put a templar at the same stats the typical sorc has in cyrodiil - 20k hp 30k magika 10k stamina. that templar gets a measly 6k shield. 6000. thats 2 non crit crushing shocks or 1 non crit crystal frag from a sorc with the same stats. And you know what? that crystal frag will knock me on my ass too with no shield free for you to shock me into a little pile of ash. Even adding another shield into the fray wont help the templar more because even if you dont break the shields I'm continually having to refresh my 6 second blazing shield, which loses half of its dreaded utility for 'returning damage' cause its melee range and no sorc on this forum of min/maxing crybaby pc master race tosspots is even thinking about being melee cause then you couldn't hide behind your OP infinite shields and rake in the AP.

Templars can use Harness magicka and every other shield but Conjured Ward that the Sorc can use just as well.
In fact, Blazing shield is better against melee (both magicka and stamina) than Hardened Ward. When stacked with Harness Magicka, magicka melee doesn't have much of a chance against a Templar.
Against ranged magicka users, it's not much of a difference as you want to use Harness Magicka as much as possible, and the shield is big enough to absorb most damage, np with the teplar healing at all.
Against ranged stamina, Hardened Ward is better than Blazing Shield in most cases, even though the templar has much better healing and cleansing capabilities than the sorcerer, the Sorc will survive bursts easier and be able to do more pressure.
And all that is nothing new, was the same in 1.5 already.

Templar and Sorc with like for like stats sorc comes ahead with a shield stack by up to 5k in most cases and has a minimum of 20 seconds of stacked shielding compared to a 6 second stack on a templar. So sorc gets both size, duration and because of how often a templar has to recast his/her shield the sorc wins in resources spent as well.

rfennell_ESO · March 2015

When I see these threads I automatically translate everything into "I was spamming uppercut and it's not fair that other players sometimes move".

Maybe you should check with the DC ganksquad that seems to be able to use melee abilities from range and see what their trick is.

Galalin · March 2015

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

When I see these threads I automatically translate everything into "I was spamming uppercut and it's not fair that other players sometimes move".

Maybe you should check with the DC ganksquad that seems to be able to use melee abilities from range and see what their trick is.

I'm not quite sure you posted in the right thread because nothing you have said pertains to it

DK SCRUB OUT

Tankqull · March 2015

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

I was referring to shields and dps specifically. All you whiny sorc ***** get your shield based off your magika pool. Who else gets another 10k hp pool by increasing their dps?

The purpose of HP is to not die. It's a survivability stat. Shields, Heals, Damage Mitigation/ Avoidance - they're all tools for the same thing, not dying.

Most classes can stack a stat which increases both DPS and survivability. Sorcs being able to stack magicka for shields is no different from Templars stacking magicka (or spell damage) for heals. Or from stam builds stacking stamina for dodge rolls. In every case, the character raises one stat to simultaneously increase their DPS and the effective hit points.

You have to look at class skills in context. Nobody has one skill on their bar.

This isn't true, you need hp on both the Templar and the stamina user in your comparison becauses heals are reactive and shields are proactive. You can't preheal in this game basically. So you need hp or in sorcs case shields to give you time to cast said heals

If you think you can stack just one stat in the Templar or stamina user, go try it, see how long you last with no shields and 13k-17k hp

its funny how a stamina user stacking stamina has 13-17k hp while a sorc stacking magicka allways has somthing like 20k++ health in these discussions :P

Tankqull · March 2015

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

Heals are not as useful as shields ever, how can taking precious seconds restoring hp be better than that hp not getting hit at all?

how is losing precious seconds in preperation to not lose hitpoints any better than losing seconds to recover your lost HP?

or in other words why is dealing dmg from the beginning and heal back up after the fight is over worse than losing time shielding up while beeing smacked at refreshing you shields over and over as every attack depletes it to the point that not refreshing it results in a onehit death?

Singular · March 2015

Mumyo wrote: »

ratgoddess495 wrote: »

These guys just won't be happy until our only skill line is AP Piñata.

The best proof is that suddenly there are 100% more sorcs in pvp now, even the persons that played other classes for very long time.
Ôh i forgot, they only play it because they want to play hardmode and they accidently gained so much skill now with that broken class that they oneshit people. Dayum, imagine those player on another class.

I actually just returned from dropping my sub a long while back b/c it's b2p. So...I'm sure I suck as a sorc

but here I am, contributing to the rise of sorcs in your imagination!

Singular · March 2015

Talcyndl wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Without sacrifice? Hmm, my 17k hp pool suggests otherwise...

Except that its not really 17K hp against most damage when you have shields up. Yes, against certain builds and certain attacks, those shields are less useful, but for a lot of the time in Cyrodiil, you really have 30K+ hp.

Coming from a DK that has multiple forms of active defense, this is both funny and ironic. You have Green Dragon Blood, Reflective Scales, and Ignenous Shield, all of which "extend" your HP far past what your stat sheet says when putting it the same way that you do and all of which take a different approach to dealing with.

DKs just had it so good for so long that they forgot (never knew?) what it was like to actively think about how to deal with other class' abilities.

Right. I'm a tank. A balanced game design (which was not the case for DKs for a while, but IMO was "fixed" many patches ago) gives tank builds high survivability while limiting their dps.

The issue people have with Sorcs atm is that there is little tradeoff. A sorc can stack shields (and be in some situations MORE tanky than a tank build) while also maintaining the ability to burst dps.

Oh, and also having the most annoying escape ability ever devised.

How long do shields last? 20 seconds? What's the big deal?

synnerman · March 2015

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

Instant shield stacking is the real culprit here, its just that on a sorc one of the shields is based off their dps resource pool so they get a double benefit of offense and defense by stacking magika. This is what needs fixing.

And Stacking stamina allows you to dodge roll more , heal more(vigor) and block more should that be fixed aswell??

MADshadowman · March 2015

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

ratgoddess495 wrote: »

These guys just won't be happy until our only skill line is AP Piñata.

The best proof is that suddenly there are 100% more sorcs in pvp now, even the persons that played other classes for very long time.
Ôh i forgot, they only play it because they want to play hardmode and they accidently gained so much skill now with that broken class that they oneshit people. Dayum, imagine those player on another class.

Did someone say my name?

MADshadowman · March 2015

Yoohoooo @xsorusb14_ESO !

I remember our 1v1 and how you said "they should really nerf resto heavy attacks"

Anything else you want nerfed?

EskimoBrother · March 2015

MADshadowman wrote: »

Yoohoooo @xsorusb14_ESO !

I remember our 1v1 and how you said "they should really nerf resto heavy attacks"

Anything else you want nerfed?

anything that works against him needs to be nerfed. dudes been crying all over the forums for nerfs, sounds like he's just being outplayed. Instead of working to get better he just gets on the forums to cry about it.

MADshadowman · March 2015

EskimoBrother wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Yoohoooo @xsorusb14_ESO !

I remember our 1v1 and how you said "they should really nerf resto heavy attacks"

Anything else you want nerfed?

anything that works against him needs to be nerfed. dudes been crying all over the forums for nerfs, sounds like he's just being outplayed. Instead of working to get better he just gets on the forums to cry about it.

yeah, seems so

Silverminken · March 2015

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

I was referring to shields and dps specifically. All you whiny sorc ***** get your shield based off your magika pool. Who else gets another 10k hp pool by increasing their dps?

The purpose of HP is to not die. It's a survivability stat. Shields, Heals, Damage Mitigation/ Avoidance - they're all tools for the same thing, not dying.

Most classes can stack a stat which increases both DPS and survivability. Sorcs being able to stack magicka for shields is no different from Templars stacking magicka (or spell damage) for heals. Or from stam builds stacking stamina for dodge rolls. In every case, the character raises one stat to simultaneously increase their DPS and the effective hit points.

You have to look at class skills in context. Nobody has one skill on their bar.

Heals are not as useful as shields ever, how can taking precious seconds restoring hp be better than that hp not getting hit at all? I suppose you'll say 'you can heal with a shield up' yeah I can add more than double to my resource usage to heal away under a shield that by the time I'm finished healing you will have either broken again because mine is based off hp and can't be as effective as yours unless I want to do half my dps, or it's pathetic duration will have expired so I have to spend more resources recasting it and more time with you getting free hits in.

And if you are so focused on pushing other skills into a discussion about shields, bolt escape is the best mitigation in the game just don't be in the fight anymore take no damage to hp or shields.
You have burst heals from your pets unsummon, but sorcs moan and complain about being 'toglemancers' and wont even use something, even if not optimal, that could bolster an area in which they are sorely lacking.

And go on then, make a templar and stack just magika see how you do. Enjoy those 3k blazing shields you have to cast constantly and healing through the 7-12k hits that will get though while you do. All 2 of them.

ToRelax wrote: »

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

Instant shield stacking is the real culprit here, its just that on a sorc one of the shields is based off their dps resource pool so they get a double benefit of offense and defense by stacking magika. This is what needs fixing.

You mean, similar to the way Templar's Healing and Damage are based on the same resource pool? Or perhaps you mean, it's similar to the way every stamina build increases their ability to block and dodge roll? You're referring to how pretty much everyone can simultaneously build for DPS and Survivability?

I was referring to shields and dps specifically. All you whiny sorc ***** get your shield based off your magika pool. Who else gets another 10k hp pool by increasing their dps? And lets put a templar at the same stats the typical sorc has in cyrodiil - 20k hp 30k magika 10k stamina. that templar gets a measly 6k shield. 6000. thats 2 non crit crushing shocks or 1 non crit crystal frag from a sorc with the same stats. And you know what? that crystal frag will knock me on my ass too with no shield free for you to shock me into a little pile of ash. Even adding another shield into the fray wont help the templar more because even if you dont break the shields I'm continually having to refresh my 6 second blazing shield, which loses half of its dreaded utility for 'returning damage' cause its melee range and no sorc on this forum of min/maxing crybaby pc master race tosspots is even thinking about being melee cause then you couldn't hide behind your OP infinite shields and rake in the AP.

Templars can use Harness magicka and every other shield but Conjured Ward that the Sorc can use just as well.
In fact, Blazing shield is better against melee (both magicka and stamina) than Hardened Ward. When stacked with Harness Magicka, magicka melee doesn't have much of a chance against a Templar.
Against ranged magicka users, it's not much of a difference as you want to use Harness Magicka as much as possible, and the shield is big enough to absorb most damage, np with the teplar healing at all.
Against ranged stamina, Hardened Ward is better than Blazing Shield in most cases, even though the templar has much better healing and cleansing capabilities than the sorcerer, the Sorc will survive bursts easier and be able to do more pressure.
And all that is nothing new, was the same in 1.5 already.

Templar and Sorc with like for like stats sorc comes ahead with a shield stack by up to 5k in most cases and has a minimum of 20 seconds of stacked shielding compared to a 6 second stack on a templar. So sorc gets both size, duration and because of how often a templar has to recast his/her shield the sorc wins in resources spent as well.

If being attacked, shields does NOT last 20 seconds (or more for that matter)...

Here is a little tip on how shields work... they act as a buffer for damage, so instead of you taking the damage, the shield soak up the damage and if the incoming damage is LESS than then shield (or shields used) you take no damage, but your shield have taken damage, so the next attack, has less of a shield to overcome! So once the shield is starting to be used, that 20 second duration does not mean much, as you constantly have to refresh it every 1 to 2 attacks suffered. So the only real good thing is that you when you are not getting hit, do not need to refresh as often....

By reading your posts, it is easy to get the impression that shields protects against every attack of shield maximum value for the "entire" duration of the said shield...
So that 20 second Hardened Ward, for 9k, would soak up to 9k of EVERY attack during the 20 second duration, so any attacks that is over 9k would not harm you, which is NOT how it works. IF shields would work like this, then I agree that the 20 second duration is very powerful.

Then you are also missing out that your Templar shield also deals damage! which the Sorcerer shield does not... Would you give up that damage dealing property for longer shield duration? I know I would love to have a reflect melee damage to my shield... (compare to DK's Reflective Scales reflect "projectiles")...

Then on a side note, how long does it take a Templar to regain full health from below 50% health? And then tell how long it takes for a Sorcerer to do the same? What class skill does a Sorcerer have to help with this? Surge? the one that only takes Crit damage with a hefty 0.25 second cooldown between crit attacks? And also only gives back a maximum of 50% of the crit damage done... and sadly many of the DoTs do Crit, and triggers Surge heal... so pre 1.6 Crit Surge could heal in excess of 1500 per second while in the same situation in 1.6 Surge heal is more in the range of 700 per second...
[edit]
This was in PvE where Critical Surge actually worked, since Impenetrable stopped you from criting in PvP, and thus made Critical Surge very unreliable, since most of the players would run with a couple of Impenetrable gear in PvP.
So what I mean to say, is that you cannot take single part out and say look how unfair it is... without looking at the whole picture. Because in that case, the same arguments can be called upon to seriously nerf Templars healing tree for instance... When just looking at the unique healing capabilities these offers that is far superior to what the other classes have as an example, it gets even more powerful if you compare to Sorcerers...

Lava_Croft · March 2015

You are not allowed to mention DK2.0.