Rise of the planet of the Sorcs

ToRelax

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

I was referring to shields and dps specifically. All you whiny sorc ***** get your shield based off your magika pool. Who else gets another 10k hp pool by increasing their dps?

The purpose of HP is to not die. It's a survivability stat. Shields, Heals, Damage Mitigation/ Avoidance - they're all tools for the same thing, not dying.

Most classes can stack a stat which increases both DPS and survivability. Sorcs being able to stack magicka for shields is no different from Templars stacking magicka (or spell damage) for heals. Or from stam builds stacking stamina for dodge rolls. In every case, the character raises one stat to simultaneously increase their DPS and the effective hit points.

You have to look at class skills in context. Nobody has one skill on their bar.

Heals are not as useful as shields ever, how can taking precious seconds restoring hp be better than that hp not getting hit at all? I suppose you'll say 'you can heal with a shield up' yeah I can add more than double to my resource usage to heal away under a shield that by the time I'm finished healing you will have either broken again because mine is based off hp and can't be as effective as yours unless I want to do half my dps, or it's pathetic duration will have expired so I have to spend more resources recasting it and more time with you getting free hits in.

And if you are so focused on pushing other skills into a discussion about shields, bolt escape is the best mitigation in the game just don't be in the fight anymore take no damage to hp or shields.
You have burst heals from your pets unsummon, but sorcs moan and complain about being 'toglemancers' and wont even use something, even if not optimal, that could bolster an area in which they are sorely lacking.

And go on then, make a templar and stack just magika see how you do. Enjoy those 3k blazing shields you have to cast constantly and healing through the 7-12k hits that will get though while you do. All 2 of them.

ToRelax wrote: »

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

Instant shield stacking is the real culprit here, its just that on a sorc one of the shields is based off their dps resource pool so they get a double benefit of offense and defense by stacking magika. This is what needs fixing.

You mean, similar to the way Templar's Healing and Damage are based on the same resource pool? Or perhaps you mean, it's similar to the way every stamina build increases their ability to block and dodge roll? You're referring to how pretty much everyone can simultaneously build for DPS and Survivability?

I was referring to shields and dps specifically. All you whiny sorc ***** get your shield based off your magika pool. Who else gets another 10k hp pool by increasing their dps? And lets put a templar at the same stats the typical sorc has in cyrodiil - 20k hp 30k magika 10k stamina. that templar gets a measly 6k shield. 6000. thats 2 non crit crushing shocks or 1 non crit crystal frag from a sorc with the same stats. And you know what? that crystal frag will knock me on my ass too with no shield free for you to shock me into a little pile of ash. Even adding another shield into the fray wont help the templar more because even if you dont break the shields I'm continually having to refresh my 6 second blazing shield, which loses half of its dreaded utility for 'returning damage' cause its melee range and no sorc on this forum of min/maxing crybaby pc master race tosspots is even thinking about being melee cause then you couldn't hide behind your OP infinite shields and rake in the AP.

Templars can use Harness magicka and every other shield but Conjured Ward that the Sorc can use just as well.
In fact, Blazing shield is better against melee (both magicka and stamina) than Hardened Ward. When stacked with Harness Magicka, magicka melee doesn't have much of a chance against a Templar.
Against ranged magicka users, it's not much of a difference as you want to use Harness Magicka as much as possible, and the shield is big enough to absorb most damage, np with the teplar healing at all.
Against ranged stamina, Hardened Ward is better than Blazing Shield in most cases, even though the templar has much better healing and cleansing capabilities than the sorcerer, the Sorc will survive bursts easier and be able to do more pressure.
And all that is nothing new, was the same in 1.5 already.

Templar and Sorc with like for like stats sorc comes ahead with a shield stack by up to 5k in most cases and has a minimum of 20 seconds of stacked shielding compared to a 6 second stack on a templar. So sorc gets both size, duration and because of how often a templar has to recast his/her shield the sorc wins in resources spent as well.

This is all such nonsense. Heals are far more essential than shields, obviously, because shields do not restore health. Just with shields you will never get back up, not even leave execute range. Only exception is Healing Ward - guess what, we slot it for the heal it can provide, no one would bother if it was just a shield.

Also who started complaining about shieldstacking?

Anyway, good players will not slot skills just to be able to escape. Yes, you can avoid (not mitigate) damage with it, but it's not on my bar so I can run from a fight. Wich does not mean I never retreat, it indeed happens to be the best skill for that purpose. That just doesn't have to do with the topic - whining about how strong some Sorcs are.

And please, you can have a 6-7k Blazing Shield easily, you have healing, both burst and HoTs, wich make up for the lost health and you can absorb all magic damage with harness magicka if you recast it. Boosting the Blazing Shield, wich by itself will push melee attackers in the defense again. Give my Sorc a 50% weaker shield that reflects 50% of damage taken and you will be back on the forums in no time. And no, I don't care wether it's only for 6 seconds, I recast my Ward at least that often anyway.

LameoveR

I thought it's a thread about nexttime sorc's buffs/fixes coming.
I was wrong

pronkg

I

LameoveR wrote: »

I thought it's a thread about nexttime sorc's buffs/fixes coming.
I was wrong

Unfortunately it's endless QQing of people who lose to better players.

Let's ban all Olympic champions, else, not fair

rfennell_ESO

The biggest issue with shields is probably the fact there is no way to debuff them. Healing based survivability is both interruptable and debuffable, shield based survivability can't be interrupted mid cast nor is it debuffable.

Compounding the "mostly sorcs" issue regarding shields is that if you are a build or class that can't reflect projectiles or use a shield and can sustain block... many sorcs will be able to blow you up way before you can blow them up.

These issues for certain classes and builds are not new... for the most part it's far less op than the old dk vamp builds.

Another little point of note is that bastion increases damage absorbing shields. So when you are dealing with a sorc using whitestrakes, hardened ward and healing ward... you can do the math. The added issue of sorcs being required to stack magicka, which obviously further increases those shields... can make for some bad matchups.

If there weren't a plethora of dks out there it's possible that sorcs could be a little bit op. If you are one and getting owned by sorcs you merely need to go to the bathroom and look above the sink for what the problem you are having is.

If you are a cheesy snipe based build, just check with the dc ganksquads about how to double exploit your ability to use those abilities. Shields aren't helpful when someone can appear from stealth and hit you with 3 snipes and 3 venom arrows in less than a second. Not to be obtuse or sirtellericsih but these things make killing sorcs easy and when you can exploit them to rank 40 or so it's obvious nothing will ever be done about them.

danno8

Tankqull wrote: »

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

Heals are not as useful as shields ever, how can taking precious seconds restoring hp be better than that hp not getting hit at all?

how is losing precious seconds in preperation to not lose hitpoints any better than losing seconds to recover your lost HP?

or in other words why is dealing dmg from the beginning and heal back up after the fight is over worse than losing time shielding up while beeing smacked at refreshing you shields over and over as every attack depletes it to the point that not refreshing it results in a onehit death?

Shields can be put up pre-engagement, so you can use the shield benefits while attacking. Heals must be used while engaged in combat, you have to heal instead of attacking.

If you could "pre-heal" and have it go off automatically when your health gets low, then that would be more equitable with shields.

I assume you put up shields before diving in. You do that for a reason right? You don't wait until you engage and your health gets low.

Galalin

I agree nerf shields... and bolt escape... followed by jesus beam... nerf meteor also please... kk ty

DK SCRUB OUT

Mumyo

Galalin wrote: »

I agree nerf shields... and bolt escape... followed by jesus beam... nerf meteor also please... kk ty

DK SCRUB OUT

Every shield scaling off health is ok because u have to put away lots of dmg to make it strong, on my damage build my blazing shield protects me for around 5k, that dosnt even protect me from a heavy attack.

Sorc shields scale off their damage ressource which makes em incredibly powerfull. They easily double the strength of the other shields and more by simply going full magica and damage.

Ezareth

I'm getting really sick of a new one of these threads every day.

Could we get some forum moderation in here please? Can we please limit the Nerf Sorc thread to a single post so I don't have to repeat myself against the next Tamriel Unlimited carebear who decided to set foot in Cyrodiil and think his "experienced" opinion is deserving of yet another dedicated nerf thread.

It's a full time job fighting these people off. I feel as if they're somehow infecting me with their stupidity. They should certify all players through a game mechanics training course before they allow them to set foot in Cyrodiil.

Xsorus

MADshadowman wrote: »

Yoohoooo @xsorusb14_ESO !

I remember our 1v1 and how you said "they should really nerf resto heavy attacks"

Anything else you want nerfed?

You realize I'm not only one who agrees with this right? Sypher has posted about it multiple times and even ZoS has said they are going to change it because an unbashable heavy ranged attack that you also can't interrupt is a little powerful esp since it restores mana. But by all means keep posting about it.

Galalin

Ezareth wrote: »

I'm getting really sick of a new one of these threads every day.

Could we get some forum moderation in here please? Can we please limit the Nerf Sorc thread to a single post so I don't have to repeat myself against the next Tamriel Unlimited carebear who decided to set foot in Cyrodiil and think his "experienced" opinion is deserving of yet another dedicated nerf thread.

It's a full time job fighting these people off. I feel as if they're somehow infecting me with their stupidity. They should certify all players through a game mechanics training course before they allow them to set foot in Cyrodiil.

Lol Ezareth.... i really don't care either way although i do think the shields could use a little tweeking, I'm just stirring the pot a little... its nice as a DK to not be the topic at hand for once.

Fear the nerf its coming... I can feel it! (Troll voice)

DK SCRUB OUT

Xsorus

EskimoBrother wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Yoohoooo @xsorusb14_ESO !

I remember our 1v1 and how you said "they should really nerf resto heavy attacks"

Anything else you want nerfed?

anything that works against him needs to be nerfed. dudes been crying all over the forums for nerfs, sounds like he's just being outplayed. Instead of working to get better he just gets on the forums to cry about it.

see previous post on subject, I can point you even to ZoS response on the subject of this. Continue to be upset that I point out obvious things that everyone but certain unskilled players see

kijima

Lol Gal, how's the flappy flap going these days?

Xsorus

Ezareth wrote: »

I'm getting really sick of a new one of these threads every day.

Could we get some forum moderation in here please? Can we please limit the Nerf Sorc thread to a single post so I don't have to repeat myself against the next Tamriel Unlimited carebear who decided to set foot in Cyrodiil and think his "experienced" opinion is deserving of yet another dedicated nerf thread.

It's a full time job fighting these people off. I feel as if they're somehow infecting me with their stupidity. They should certify all players through a game mechanics training course before they allow them to set foot in Cyrodiil.

so you want one giant thread with multiple pages over a bunch of threads that slowly die off? Doesn't seem like that would be better in my opinion. I wouldn't worry though, I have it on good authority that sorcs aren't overpowered and thus won't get a nerf.

Vis

Can't believe how many nerf babies have rallied around a guy who lost a 3v1. I would not want to associate myself with that level of badness. And good ole' @xsorusb14_ESO. A DK calling other classes OP. Now I've seen the bottom.

Xsorus

Vis wrote: »

Can't believe how many nerf babies have rallied around a guy who lost a 3v1. I would not want to associate myself with that level of badness. And good ole' @xsorusb14_ESO. A DK calling other classes OP. Now I've seen the bottom.

So I take it you think dks are overpowered?

Snit

Mumyo wrote: »

Sorc shields scale off their damage ressource which makes em incredibly powerfull. They easily double the strength of the other shields and more by simply going full magica and damage.

You must be positively apoplectic that Radiant Destruction and Breath of Life scale from the same resource, then. A powerful nuke and a powerful heal. Golly


(note, I think Templars and Jesus Beam are fine)

Vis

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Can't believe how many nerf babies have rallied around a guy who lost a 3v1. I would not want to associate myself with that level of badness. And good ole' @xsorusb14_ESO. A DK calling other classes OP. Now I've seen the bottom.

So I take it you think dks are overpowered?

Good players make amazing DKs. But no worries, no one is expecting you to know that.

Xsorus

Vis wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Can't believe how many nerf babies have rallied around a guy who lost a 3v1. I would not want to associate myself with that level of badness. And good ole' @xsorusb14_ESO. A DK calling other classes OP. Now I've seen the bottom.

So I take it you think dks are overpowered?

Good players make amazing DKs. But no worries, no one is expecting you to know that.

So you don't think dks are overpowered, and you think good players make dks amazing. So why did you bring up dks calling other classes overpowered?

Either you think dks are so powerful they shouldn't complain about other classes, or you think I'm a good player and thus shouldn't complain as a dk about other classes.

Galalin

kijima wrote: »

Lol Gal, how's the flappy flap going these days?

My flappy flaps have been clipped... i can no long take to the skies... i am currently considering a career as a vanity pet for sorcs ... how is one of my most favorite sorcs in the game doing?

Wait..... is that you? Its hard to see through all those shields... (troll voice)

DK SCRUB OUT

FENGRUSH

Shield/sorc shield play will get nerfed. Its just a matter of how long. I would anticipate not anytime too soon.

kijima

Galalin wrote: »

kijima wrote: »

Lol Gal, how's the flappy flap going these days?

My flappy flaps have been clipped... i can no long take to the skies... i am currently considering a career as a vanity pet for sorcs ... how is one of my most favorite sorcs in the game doing?

Wait..... is that you? Its hard to see through all those shields... (troll voice)

DK SCRUB OUT

My Sorc doesn't see much play time, my bowtard NB however. I'm still enjoying lol snipes.

Galalin

kijima wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

kijima wrote: »

Lol Gal, how's the flappy flap going these days?

My flappy flaps have been clipped... i can no long take to the skies... i am currently considering a career as a vanity pet for sorcs ... how is one of my most favorite sorcs in the game doing?

Wait..... is that you? Its hard to see through all those shields... (troll voice)

DK SCRUB OUT

My Sorc doesn't see much play time, my bowtard NB however. I'm still enjoying lol snipes.

Haha awesome... i tried bow for one night... i got 10+ whispers from my usual AD foes asking wtf i was doing with a bow, did i just see you with a bow... etc... etc. In the end i decided it was not for me.

In fairness i got a couple saying "you went 2h? Really?" But i will be keeping my 2h with 1hs setup for quite a few more CP.

DK SCRUB OUT

Attorneyatlawl

I should dig out some of those 1.6 pts threads where I was called insane, repeatedly, for asserting that Sorcs were pretty well off now, rather than unplayably gimped as they all kept insisting . Those would be funny to look over now, eh?

Galalin

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

I should dig out some of those 1.6 pts threads where I was called insane, repeatedly, for asserting that Sorcs were pretty well off now, rather than unplayably gimped as they all kept insisting . Those would be funny to look over now, eh?

im trying to smile.... but i just can't because its the truth

DK SCRUB OUT

Cinbri

Stop compare templar's Blazing Shield with sorc's damage shield. Blazing Shield only good on paper. Recasting shield that one-two-shotted every 2 sec is useless. Only reason for it cast - while blocking coz in 1.6 BS damage absorbing not mitigated by armor but by block. In two words: in serious battle: without block - cast shield that will be dispelled in 1.5-2 sec(it will absorb 2 Crashing Shock), with block 3-4 sec (however after some testing i can't figure out the source of BS damage reduction). And with weird animation mechanic you can't blockcasting BS so it almost useless for spamming, every time when you cast it even in block you will be CCed. In addition BS is damage shield that doesn't reapplying on cast - if you cast new BS the old one will dissapear so while 1.1 sec animation of casting BS you won't absorb anything; in this not so small for dueling animation cast time you also viable for CC, even Bastion CP won't make it more effective. Only way to make it viable templar must wear 5 heavy armor parts and hold block only then this skill will allow to face several enemies. Or it is blocking that allow to do this...
In light amor BS is much less effective than Harness or Dampen Magicka, only good vs stamina users but after two-handed buff BS will be dispelled in 1 hit as i said previously. Even Bone Shield for stamina templars is more effective than BS and lvling Apprentice and Lord 3 healing and self-healing buffs will make Breath of Life or Honor the dead MUCH more preferable 1 button choice to cast instead of BS (however with many healing debuffs running around you must press 2 buttons - dispel and only then healing but that mean killing 1 button mechanic ).

Xsorus

Cinbri wrote: »

Stop compare templar's Blazing Shield with sorc's damage shield. Blazing Shield only good on paper. Recasting shield that one-two-shotted every 2 sec is useless. Only reason for it cast - while blocking coz in 1.6 BS damage absorbing not mitigated by armor but by block. In two words: in serious battle: without block - cast shield that will be dispelled in 1.5-2 sec(it will absorb 2 Crashing Shock), with block 3-4 sec. And with weird animation mechanic you can't blockcasting BS so it almost useless for spamming, every time when you cast it even in block you will be CCed. In addition BS is damage shield that doesn't reapplying on cast - if you cast new BS the old one will dissapear so while 1.1 sec animation of casting BS you won't absorb anything; in this not so small for dueling animation cast time you also viable for CC, even Bastion CP won't make it more effective. Only way to make it viable templar must wear 5 heavy armor parts and hold block only then this skill will allow to face several enemies. Or it is blocking that allow to do this...
In light amor BS is much less effective than Harness or Dampen Magicka, only good vs stamina users but after two-handed buff BS will be dispelled in 1 hit as i said previously. Even Bone Shield for stamina templars is more effective than BS and lvling Apprentice and Lord 3 healing and self-healing buffs will make Breath of Life or Honor the dead MUCH more preferable 1 button choice to cast instead of BS (however with many healing debuffs running around you must press 2 buttons - dispel and only then healing but that mean killing 1 button mechanic ).

I'm 99% sure blocking doesn't reduce damage you blazing shield takes. In fact you are wasting stamina by blocking while its up

Cinbri

Stamina always wasting while blocking dont see reason why damage shields should negate it.

Ryuho

Cinbri wrote: »

Stop compare templar's Blazing Shield with sorc's damage shield. Blazing Shield only good on paper. Recasting shield that one-two-shotted every 2 sec is useless. Only reason for it cast - while blocking coz in 1.6 BS damage absorbing not mitigated by armor but by block. In two words: in serious battle: without block - cast shield that will be dispelled in 1.5-2 sec(it will absorb 2 Crashing Shock), with block 3-4 sec. And with weird animation mechanic you can't blockcasting BS so it almost useless for spamming, every time when you cast it even in block you will be CCed. In addition BS is damage shield that doesn't reapplying on cast - if you cast new BS the old one will dissapear so while 1.1 sec animation of casting BS you won't absorb anything; in this not so small for dueling animation cast time you also viable for CC, even Bastion CP won't make it more effective. Only way to make it viable templar must wear 5 heavy armor parts and hold block only then this skill will allow to face several enemies. Or it is blocking that allow to do this...
In light amor BS is much less effective than Harness or Dampen Magicka, only good vs stamina users but after two-handed buff BS will be dispelled in 1 hit as i said previously. Even Bone Shield for stamina templars is more effective than BS and lvling Apprentice and Lord 3 healing and self-healing buffs will make Breath of Life or Honor the dead MUCH more preferable 1 button choice to cast instead of BS (however with many healing debuffs running around you must press 2 buttons - dispel and only then healing but that mean killing 1 button mechanic ).

Totally agree, let BS stack with Mana or Stamina (higher stat) to make it vialable.. now is seriously realy weak.. Its like @Cinbri wrote BS can absorb 1 wreckling blow or 1 lethal or 1 crystal sooo OP.. compared to sorc shield which mitigate dmg at all its just.. no offense to sorces, i play both.. but shieldstacking must go!! Or maybe allow one shield of diffrent type at same time, like magicka scaled shield + hp scaled shield, no double magicka shields.. It's so irritating when you fight vs vr5 sorc for long time, only cause he spams hardened + dampen all the time and blinks to place BoL.. Even noob might be "good" now casue shieldstack.. Ofc it's fault of cap removal, and bastion passive which made shields so OP..

Kas

Shield stacking and BOL can be a real pain to fight.
There are plenty of reasons why a player may be left with a build without charge (or blink) and only so much non-projectile dps that will never be able to penetrate the sorc's shields.
Sure, that's a terrible idea if you know will will face sorcs when solo or without significant help, but it's not like some super unrealistic scenario or weird build to end up liek that.

That being said, reflects are still powerful and, like others, sorcs will still have to deal with that. Sorcs do not have an easy time applying heal debuffs and they are pretty vulnerable to CC (unless they use the expensive pots a lot).
Players with crazy spellresist and selfheal can be equally annoying for sorcs to target - however, at least the guy with blink can choose his fights whereas others cant.

A DK with scale spamming petrify (why is there no cc immunity btw?) really *** up shield stackers who usually cannot (do not want to) block as much.

Personally, I think the biggest problem with sorcs right now is, that their fotm-style seems to be pretty similar to 1.5 and is hence discovered and practiced more often. all other classes can be (not sure if equally, more or less) hard to beat as well. It's just that 1.5 with litte adaptions is mcuh further from optimal for other classes.

Personally, I think the most powerful builds have not even been discovered, yet.

Cinbri

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm 99% sure blocking doesn't reduce damage you blazing shield takes. In fact you are wasting stamina by blocking while its up

Did some more extensive tests with different armor types and staff/shield blocking and noticed confusing results. And one of those nice things - why BS proccing Valkyn Skoria meteors.