Vaerth wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

No, infact I love the vampires look. Much better than past ES games in my opinion.

But then again, its all about personal prefecens when it comes to the looks.

Then make all 4 stages viable so I do not need to be a Zombie sith?

All stages are viable? Saying otherwise is an outright lie.

I'm constantly in a "monster" team when I do veteran dungeons with my friends. We run it with a constant stage 1, stage 2 and stage 4 vampire. We're never having problems besides in City of Ash (Which is ALL about fire damage).

Your so called "Zombie Sith" has nothing to do with neither sith, nor zombies. You're a living walking dead person who still has his mind intact. Stage 4 vampirism LOOKS like a vampire who is in dire need of blood, or otherwise an extremely sick person. Their skin is pale, the veins thickens and their eyes bloodshot. If you wish to play a pretty vampire with minimal changes to your appearance, then go feed every 30 minutes.

I agree that the lenght of the first stages of vampirism should be MUCH longer. But wanting stage 4 vampirism to get changed because it isn't to your "pretty standard vampire" liking is just wrong. Some of us -love- the nastyness of the stage 4 vampires, and having that option in there just adds a greater new cosmetic option for roleplayers.

Vaerth wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

As far as an ability revamp, sure I'm open to it - as long as we remain balanced for utility so it doesnt make another situation where 4/5 VR14s are vamp. For looks, no thanks, they should stay the same. We're cursed, should show our curse, and this is just how it is for Lamae's Bloodline.

curse of the Zombie perhaps, not a Vampire.

Mmmm, tooltip clearly says Vampire.

Half the tooltips in this game a bugged (exaggerated)

mhmmm, maybe it is suppose to say Zombie? Lol! Would be funny if they change it for a day as a joke.

Also, be careful how you word stuff, ZoS forum support will give you a warning if they think it was rude, or "Trolling / baiting" even when that is not the case. I have had issues with them lately not reading a thread and thinking it was mean lol, when it was friendly play.

I was just stating what the skill line was called, I hope it wasn't taken as rude. Giving something a name for something it isn't seems to walk the "baiting" border more, imo.

Vaerth wrote: »

Chuggernaut wrote: »

Craft (or buy) a gold fire resistance enchantment and you'll be fine. My Imperial Vamp in cadwells silver used to get smoked by fire atronachs/mages, but after the update and equipping the enchantment on a ring, they are no more difficult than anything else.

I find that odd because I was a Dunmer vampire with gold fire glyph VR3 and got smoked by fire like no ones business (pun inteneded).

Have you tried stacking FR after 1.6? With the lack of overcharge now I would imagine a HA Dunmer vamp with FR glyphs could survive in fire longer than a non-vampire in light armor.

Yeah, the higher it stacks the less it provides resist wise.

I didn't think with overcharge being removed that this would be the case. I was under the impression that there should be no diminishing returns until you reach the hard cap, which takes a pretty decent gold committment to reach in the first place.

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

No, infact I love the vampires look. Much better than past ES games in my opinion.

But then again, its all about personal prefecens when it comes to the looks.

Then make all 4 stages viable so I do not need to be a Zombie sith?

All stages are viable? Saying otherwise is an outright lie.

I'm constantly in a "monster" team when I do veteran dungeons with my friends. We run it with a constant stage 1, stage 2 and stage 4 vampire. We're never having problems besides in City of Ash (Which is ALL about fire damage).

Your so called "Zombie Sith" has nothing to do with neither sith, nor zombies. You're a living walking dead person who still has his mind intact. Stage 4 vampirism LOOKS like a vampire who is in dire need of blood, or otherwise an extremely sick person. Their skin is pale, the veins thickens and their eyes bloodshot. If you wish to play a pretty vampire with minimal changes to your appearance, then go feed every 30 minutes.

I agree that the lenght of the first stages of vampirism should be MUCH longer. But wanting stage 4 vampirism to get changed because it isn't to your "pretty standard vampire" liking is just wrong. Some of us -love- the nastyness of the stage 4 vampires, and having that option in there just adds a greater new cosmetic option for roleplayers.

Also, who said anything about wanting a "pretty vampire"? I went through the entire thread and found you to be the only one who says we want a "pretty vampire". Not once did anyone say that, or use the word "pretty" at all through this whole thread?

To sum up what we are looking for in the thread

Benefits to remaining stage 1
increased timers across stages of vampirism
more utility skills
use of Drain Essence and morphs on immune to stun targets
and of course, FANGS

BBSooner wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

As far as an ability revamp, sure I'm open to it - as long as we remain balanced for utility so it doesnt make another situation where 4/5 VR14s are vamp. For looks, no thanks, they should stay the same. We're cursed, should show our curse, and this is just how it is for Lamae's Bloodline.

curse of the Zombie perhaps, not a Vampire.

Mmmm, tooltip clearly says Vampire.

Half the tooltips in this game a bugged (exaggerated)

mhmmm, maybe it is suppose to say Zombie? Lol! Would be funny if they change it for a day as a joke.

Also, be careful how you word stuff, ZoS forum support will give you a warning if they think it was rude, or "Trolling / baiting" even when that is not the case. I have had issues with them lately not reading a thread and thinking it was mean lol, when it was friendly play.

I was just stating what the skill line was called, I hope it wasn't taken as rude. Giving something a name for something it isn't seems to walk the "baiting" border more, imo.

Vaerth wrote: »

Chuggernaut wrote: »

Craft (or buy) a gold fire resistance enchantment and you'll be fine. My Imperial Vamp in cadwells silver used to get smoked by fire atronachs/mages, but after the update and equipping the enchantment on a ring, they are no more difficult than anything else.

I find that odd because I was a Dunmer vampire with gold fire glyph VR3 and got smoked by fire like no ones business (pun inteneded).

Have you tried stacking FR after 1.6? With the lack of overcharge now I would imagine a HA Dunmer vamp with FR glyphs could survive in fire longer than a non-vampire in light armor.

Yeah, the higher it stacks the less it provides resist wise.

I didn't think with overcharge being removed that this would be the case. I was under the impression that there should be no diminishing returns until you reach the hard cap, which takes a pretty decent gold committment to reach in the first place.

Test your resist with one fire glyph, then add the second and you will see what I am talking about. I thought the exact same thing until I was proven wrong by someone on here on the forums.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/158170/soft-caps-removed-in-1-6-can-i-effectively-stack-fire-resist-then?new=1

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

Also, who said anything about wanting a "pretty vampire"? I went through the entire thread and found you to be the only one who says we want a "pretty vampire". Not once did anyone say that, or use the word "pretty" at all through this whole thread?

Because both zombies and siths alike are renowed as being disgusting/ugly or what other fine term you can find for it.

Vaerth wrote: »

Anyone else dislike the site / zombie look we have with Vampires in this game?

A dislike for something often comes with "I would like something changed" and hence, when your complaint where of zombies and siths. I immediately presume that you want them to be prettier, as you dislike their current nasty vampire design.

Yes, that was an assumption without a doubt. But putting the pieces together ain't exactly hard. Instead of changes to a thing which multiple people like, then you should instead look at adding -more- instead of changing what is already there. Just look at how "well received" the new reguard and orc armor were.

As for the benefit to being in a lesser stage of vampirism, there is one? Lesser health regeneration reduction. That's pretty good for tanks, and also why my veteran dungeon teams tank constantly keeps himself on stage 1 of vampirism.

TESO vampires are made in such a way that when they go longer without blood, their defenses is reduced while their offensive is increased as they become more feral and wild. That is why that the lower stages has a higher health recovery than the higher stages, and why the abilities cost less for the higher stages, than the lower.

To me, that makes sense. There should just be more too it. But my main point being: Don't change cosmetic options because YOU do not like them, because the chance of someone else loving it is pretty big.

Makes sense, and i agree, so can we meet in the middle and say we would both like more benefits from lower stages then?

Also, careful with your words, ZoS will warning you and call that "baiting"

One thing you are forgetting as a vampire, you stay in vampire form, always. You can use your vampire abilities and your regular abilities at any time. Unlike vampires, you have to build up ultimate just to change into werewolf form. Once in werewolf form you have to use only werewolf abilities. And on top of that you constantly have to stop and feed or you change back into normal form. With the mobs spread out like they are, you cannot stay in werewolf form and quest or farm. So, it's one or the other for werewolves. Werewolves effectively loss an ultimate, which is why they have other spells in werewolf form. With constantly having to feed to stay in werewolf form it slows their killing down, lowering the overall dps. I have played both and I enjoy both. Overall, I think vampires are still more usable than a werewolf. One other thing, transforming in to and out of werewolf form stops you from doing damage, while the enemy is still smacking you around. Overall, IMO, they are different things and they SHOULD feel and play different. I say good job on the two, ZOS.
[/quote]

Not sure exactly how to quote so forgive me if this looks wrong.


Anyway. I have a werewolf character and frankly its 100x more fun than a vampire one. Also I could stay in werewolf form almost forever. Only problem with werewolves at the moment is it forces you to stay in combat. As long as you are in combat however with the correct passives you get back time every 3 seconds if you are being damaged. On top of that you have a leap ability that gives back 4 seconds. And the call of the pack passive plus if you or a friend has pack leader it almost assures you will stay in werewolf form.

But back to vampires. They are gimped. Their skills are gimped too. And some of the passives are not really that good. They are by far inferior to werewolves its not even a joke.

Vaerth wrote: »

Falmari wrote: »

I would say that vamps are fine.
Even after the nerfs there are plenty of vamps out there so it must work for them.
As it works for me, my main is a vamp.

Vamps need to be balanced the benefits should not out weigh the deficits otherwise everyone would be one I for one think they balance is about right now, some play styles benefit from being a vamp and some don't.

Then explain the Werewolf passive in human form, with no negatives?

If you were a vamp as a main, you would not have said what you did. They are in a very bad state right now, and we all know it.

No, negatives?? How about extra poison damage and extra damage from Fighter Guild abilities?

Fleshreaper wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

Falmari wrote: »

I would say that vamps are fine.
Even after the nerfs there are plenty of vamps out there so it must work for them.
As it works for me, my main is a vamp.

Vamps need to be balanced the benefits should not out weigh the deficits otherwise everyone would be one I for one think they balance is about right now, some play styles benefit from being a vamp and some don't.

Then explain the Werewolf passive in human form, with no negatives?

If you were a vamp as a main, you would not have said what you did. They are in a very bad state right now, and we all know it.

No, negatives?? How about extra poison damage and extra damage from Fighter Guild abilities?

You do NOT have negatives in HUMAN form. ONLY while in WEREWOLF form.

HOWEVER the passive 15% regen is active in human form. If you never use werewolf form, you have NO negatives. Read the tool tips, there is NO negatives to being Werewolf unless you are in Werewolf form, but there is a passive BUFF to being a werewolf while in Human form.

Bipolo wrote: »

Once upon a time i could stack Devouring Swarm when i recast it within 6 seconds which wasn't uncommon at stage 4, using old Dragonguard/Seducer set's making it 34 ulti cost as a Dragonknight.

Sorc's could stack multiple Swarms as well, and some could even keep Clouding Swarm up 100% of the time (yes, 100%)

The Sith Bat-wars was a plague the first new months of PvP in this game. And it left Vamp's with a very bad rep in PvP, however even up until 1.6 you would still see Vampires in high numbers on the battlefields of Cyrodiil, mainly thanks to Bat Swarm.

Note, i am talking about PvP, not PvE. I know Vamp's do suffer in certain areas/dungeons due to Fire dmg.

Anyway, my point before i got carried away:

WW is not "overbuffed" as someone claimed above. Only benefit you have in human form is 15% stamina regen, you have no access to any of the new cool WW abilities. They even changed the Blood Rage passive with 1.6 that was imo the best thing about WW in human form.

Vampires on the other hand has 24/7 access to active abilities Drain Essance and Mist Form + Bat Swarm Ulti (which is cheaper then WW transformation ulti at default)

Not to mention passives:
Supernatural Recovery
Undeath
Dark Stalker

I do not think WW was over buffed at all, not even a little. I think vampire needs a buff and the stages revamped.

phreatophile wrote: »

It's always nice to see a fresh opinion added to the echo chamber that players of ESO vampires are in.

The 'lore' of ESO vampires barely deserves the dignity of being called lore. Most of it is a result of a "because MMO" mentality.

-We have to be insanely ugly 75% of the time and very ugly the remaining time BECAUSE MMO: other players need to be able to tell they are dealing with a vampire. What about full face helms? errmmm....nevermind.

-Stages go by far to quickly

-No daylight penalties/darkness buffs BECAUSE MMO: we can't have people log in to play their Vampire character and be gimped because it's light out, besides the days are twice as long as the nights BECAUSE MMO.

-Fire damage doesn't scale with stage BECAUSE MMO: there's a lot of fire damage out there, apparently asking that we gear for it or play better or make decisions as to what stage is best for certain content is too much to ask. In fact, they are talking about lessening fire damage yet again with some sort of ridiculous scheme where we're only fire vunerable while actually using vamp powers of which there are so few and 66% of them are useless.

-There are no social penalties of any kind for being a vampire BECAUSE MMO: we can't have people head into town and get stomped by guards or be unable to trade because the look like a feral creature seconds from attacking the first ambulatory blood bag they see.



Quoting myself:

This is how I wish it was set up.
Stage 1 lasts 2 hours. Appearance is completely mortal. Fire debuff 25%. Regens normal.

Stage 2 lasts 3 hours. Appearance deteriorates. Fire debuff 35%. All regens buff/debuff by 20% in darkness/daylight.

Stage 3 lasts 4 hours. Appearance further deteriorates. Fire debuff 45%. All regens buff/debuff by 30% in darkness/daylight. 'Straightlaced' questgivers/merchants shun you.

Stage 4 lasts. Appearance is undead. Fire debuff 55%. All regens buff/debuff by 40% in darkness / daylight. Everybody who isn't undead themselves, won't trade with you. Fighter's Guild and Guards attack you on sight.

Remove cost reduction of vampire abilities entirely or at least from Swarm Ult.

The whole thing takes 9 hours (1.5 ingame days) which makes sense for feeding.

Back on track, the appearance is awefull, the stage timers are awefull.

Somehow we keep playing them, the passives are good at least.

Vampires ought to be more situational. Under the right circumstances a vampire should be very hard to kill, in other circumstances a fighting a vampire should be no fight at all, more of an execution.

Well put

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

When vamps launched they had 42% cost reduction to their ultimate. Bats literally cost under 100 to cast. For vampire sorc former emps the cost was in the 70s. Add an ultimate reduction set and you could get that into the high 50s. I believe 58 was the actual figure.

This is why bat swarm was nerfed so hard. I didnt disagree with the nerf, my sorc today still has a 118 cost. Still one of the lowest cost ultimates in the game.

What I have a problem with, is how they have overbuffed other skill lines (such as werewolf by adding a full series of active skills, and so on, while still retaining passive stamina regen)

Its gotten to the point where the vampire skill line needs about 2 more active skills added to it to keep it competitive. Perhaps a damage shield, perhaps a fear. But the overall skill line has been pretty badly kicked in the teeth since launch, the ult redux was just the big one.

Two of my four v14s are vamps, one of them is probably dropping it for WW soon, my sorc will be the only vamp left. Its a trend you see throughout the game. people dropping one skill line for another. Mostly because of the stamina regen being active without any penalty (you get 15% in combat stamina regen as a WW without transforming, and thus without the poison damage penalty)

Different stages of vamp, therefore, should have different level of fire resist penalty

Stage 1 - 0%
Stage 2 - 15%
Stage 3 - 25%
Stage 4 - 40%

or something similar.

I agree, and have sent a similar suggestion through their feedback.

Did everyone catch the part about possible, but unlikely, changes to Vampires and Werewolves and their weaknesses in the 2nd to last ESO Live?

Basically says, that in this rendition of a fix of which we hope to never see make it to Live, that Vampires and Werewolves would only suffer their penalties/weaknesses for X amount of time after using a Vampire or Werewolf ability.

Sounds good to me I guess, lol, only is a buff if anything because i only wanted the passives, never used the skills.

Vaerth wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

When vamps launched they had 42% cost reduction to their ultimate. Bats literally cost under 100 to cast. For vampire sorc former emps the cost was in the 70s. Add an ultimate reduction set and you could get that into the high 50s. I believe 58 was the actual figure.

This is why bat swarm was nerfed so hard. I didnt disagree with the nerf, my sorc today still has a 118 cost. Still one of the lowest cost ultimates in the game.

What I have a problem with, is how they have overbuffed other skill lines (such as werewolf by adding a full series of active skills, and so on, while still retaining passive stamina regen)

Its gotten to the point where the vampire skill line needs about 2 more active skills added to it to keep it competitive. Perhaps a damage shield, perhaps a fear. But the overall skill line has been pretty badly kicked in the teeth since launch, the ult redux was just the big one.

Two of my four v14s are vamps, one of them is probably dropping it for WW soon, my sorc will be the only vamp left. Its a trend you see throughout the game. people dropping one skill line for another. Mostly because of the stamina regen being active without any penalty (you get 15% in combat stamina regen as a WW without transforming, and thus without the poison damage penalty)

Different stages of vamp, therefore, should have different level of fire resist penalty

Stage 1 - 0%
Stage 2 - 15%
Stage 3 - 25%
Stage 4 - 40%

or something similar.

I agree, and have sent a similar suggestion through their feedback.

Did everyone catch the part about possible, but unlikely, changes to Vampires and Werewolves and their weaknesses in the 2nd to last ESO Live?

Basically says, that in this rendition of a fix of which we hope to never see make it to Live, that Vampires and Werewolves would only suffer their penalties/weaknesses for X amount of time after using a Vampire or Werewolf ability.

Sounds good to me I guess, lol, only is a buff if anything because i only wanted the passives, never used the skills.

No, it's a terrible idea. The entire game would be nothing but Vampires. With maybe a few werewolves for niche builds. Any kind of diversity would die immediately.

phreatophile wrote: »

Lazrael wrote: »

Honestly, I see very little incentive from a gameplay perspective to play as a vampire right now in 1.6. Thats a big problem. My main is a imperial vamp nightblade and I am considering getting cured. Vampires look like crap, die like flies, and aside from some fairly nice passives, really don't offer much in the way of making me feel like I'm getting a whole lot of bang for my buck. Bat Swarm is a nice ult and all, but its not exactly irreplace.

Which sucks, as I was excited to be a Vampire back at launch.

But as its been said, join the club. ZOS doesn't reply to feedback on Vampire or Nightblade threads.

I think they ought to reverse all of the nerfs now that 9 months in they decided to tackle the actual problem: Borked Ultimate generation.

You mean the skill cost reduction? I am not sure that is needed. But rather a revamp of almost the entire skill line. The cooldown reduction kinda adds to the problem of no one ever feeding because feeding is simply pointless. The feeding system is simply being ignored because there is no benift in feeding. The stages are rather short, the skills are okay. Depending on the morph. Because batswarm is the only skill in the vampire tree 100% worth getting and using in normal builds.

Mist is okay if you NEVER use poison mist. Its a worthless skill and needs to be revamped. Just like how I said midnight drain was horrible.

phreatophile wrote: »

Lazrael wrote: »

Honestly, I see very little incentive from a gameplay perspective to play as a vampire right now in 1.6. Thats a big problem. My main is a imperial vamp nightblade and I am considering getting cured. Vampires look like crap, die like flies, and aside from some fairly nice passives, really don't offer much in the way of making me feel like I'm getting a whole lot of bang for my buck. Bat Swarm is a nice ult and all, but its not exactly irreplace.

Which sucks, as I was excited to be a Vampire back at launch.

But as its been said, join the club. ZOS doesn't reply to feedback on Vampire or Nightblade threads.

I think they ought to reverse all of the nerfs now that 9 months in they decided to tackle the actual problem: Borked Ultimate generation.

I've been saying Ultimate Cost was the problem for like 8 months now. But hey, nobody listens to me.

Haven wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

I want to be just as viable in stage 1 as stage 4, not asking much, Stages 1-3 look great

Yea I like the visuals of stages 1-3 but not 4 so much. But I don't want them too change it too much if they would at all. I simply stay in stage 1-2 at all times anyway.

4 looks gawd awful.

I mean I dont want vamps so strong as to be running all over, but if your going to give players an option then it has to be rewarding. If they cant balance vamp and ww then just remove them from the game.