Explain why Crown Store Potions are stronger than the ones I make.

Koloki · March 2015

Iago wrote: »

its not even as much about the potions as it is the company's inability to keep its word.

The very concept of a company that is required to sustain maximum "profit" having to "keep its word" when its not obligated to do so by law is naive at best.

A business is a business, and a business that doesn't generate "profit" has, by its very definition, no right to exist. Therefore you should expect that any shift in the current company condition will lead to shifts in views and practices.
A company can't "keep its word" because doing so can mean losing money and different from a person, a company that loses money in a regular basis should not be alive.

You are asking for a business to adder to a human concept of chivalry; don't.

You can be mad that the potions are p2w, just don't be mad that a juridical person doesn't act like a normal person.

Morvul · March 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We never intended to sell potions in the Crown Store that are stronger than ones you can craft. We have just pulled all Crown Store potions, and will reinstate them with the proper strength very soon. Sorry for any confusion this caused!

I have to admit, this is not the response I was expecting.
very, very happy to see that!

from my understanding, the problem with the crown-potions is that they scale to Vet-14, hence beating the Vet-5 crafted potions in the "immidiate heal" department

Zorvan · March 2015

Easiest way to deal with ZOS if you feel you've been lied to ( you have ) in the name of profit? Don't give them any profit. No sub, no crown purchases, and play as much as your heart desires while sucking up their server and customer service resources as needed.

Let the ones who are fine with "it's just business suck it up" pay your rent.

Dual.sphereeb17_ESO · March 2015

Will people stop posting the Hate and read what Gina posted ?

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
We never intended to sell potions in the Crown Store that are stronger than ones you can craft. We have just pulled all Crown Store potions, and will reinstate them with the proper strength very soon. Sorry for any confusion this caused!

-_-

Varicite · March 2015

Dual.sphereeb17_ESO wrote: »

Will people stop posting the Hate and read what Gina posted ?

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
We never intended to sell potions in the Crown Store that are stronger than ones you can craft. We have just pulled all Crown Store potions, and will reinstate them with the proper strength very soon. Sorry for any confusion this caused!

-_-

I wonder if they never intended to mislead us by telling us that they wouldn't sell the Explorer Pack on the Crown store, and then changing 1 tiny thing in it and renaming it the Adventurer's Pack before... selling it on the Crown store.

Not that I care much about the bonus, but it seemed like when Gina said:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Since the Explorer’s Pack was only available as a pre-order bonus and was not sold on our website, it will not be moving to the Crown Store.

...that it wasn't going to be on there. Because I read what Gina posts a lot, and it still seems that a lot of the times that isn't really the case. No offense, Gina, just saying that there seems to be a lot of miscommunication at times.

Zsymon · March 2015

Beep.

Merlin13KAGL · March 2015

It's like a 450 HP difference...which is the damage I take if I stub my toe on a rock...

Seriously?

Khaldar · March 2015

I'm really not sure what will make this community happy?

- No more monthly fee = Less longterm content
- Nothing worth buying on the crown store = Less longterm content
- B2P revenue will only last for a few months = Less longterm content

Some other upcoming games have millions of dollars at their disposal from fan donations. Some of the broke a-- people on these forums are complaining about a cheap pot that isn't even that great... that most sensible players will never buy.

Instead of asking for a NERF like everyone always does on these forums (I swear its the WoW crowd). Demand new VR10 and VR14 pot recipes.

Darlgon · March 2015

Khaldar wrote: »

Instead of asking for a NERF like everyone always does on these forums (I swear its the WoW crowd). Demand new VR10 and VR14 pot recipes.

THIS... ^^^^^, as I already asked above.

Grasshopper · March 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We never intended to sell potions in the Crown Store that are stronger than ones you can craft. We have just pulled all Crown Store potions, and will reinstate them with the proper strength very soon. Sorry for any confusion this caused!

I would like to personally thank you and your team for a quick response on the issue, The community may seem whiny at times, but most of the times they have the best of intentions

Thank you for pulling the potions, a lot of the community is very happy and supports you for avoiding a model where real money is stronger than ingame money. If you keep up this model and stay true to it some people will drop a some money in just for you holding strong against that model type. c:

asteldian · March 2015

Varicite wrote: »

Dual.sphereeb17_ESO wrote: »

Will people stop posting the Hate and read what Gina posted ?

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
We never intended to sell potions in the Crown Store that are stronger than ones you can craft. We have just pulled all Crown Store potions, and will reinstate them with the proper strength very soon. Sorry for any confusion this caused!

-_-

I wonder if they never intended to mislead us by telling us that they wouldn't sell the Explorer Pack on the Crown store, and then changing 1 tiny thing in it and renaming it the Adventurer's Pack before... selling it on the Crown store.

Not that I care much about the bonus, but it seemed like when Gina said:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Since the Explorer’s Pack was only available as a pre-order bonus and was not sold on our website, it will not be moving to the Crown Store.

...that it wasn't going to be on there. Because I read what Gina posts a lot, and it still seems that a lot of the times that isn't really the case. No offense, Gina, just saying that there seems to be a lot of miscommunication at times.

Actually, to be picky, she says it was not on website and therefore won't be MOVED to the crown store. They had to add it specifically

Saltypretzels · March 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We never intended to sell potions in the Crown Store that are stronger than ones you can craft. We have just pulled all Crown Store potions, and will reinstate them with the proper strength very soon. Sorry for any confusion this caused!

Wow I am very impressed and pleased.

BigM · March 2015

Dual.sphereeb17_ESO wrote: »

Will people stop posting the Hate and read what Gina posted ?

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
We never intended to sell potions in the Crown Store that are stronger than ones you can craft. We have just pulled all Crown Store potions, and will reinstate them with the proper strength very soon. Sorry for any confusion this caused!

-_-

We post because they have lied to us in the past. Sad part is lot of us can't take their word on a lot of stuff.

Ourorboros · March 2015

Whether intentional or not, the potions for sell were significantly higher in value than the highest possible crafted potions. However, they had limited appeal, being single stat. And, they were very expensive IMO, in terms of crowns. It's all moot now, as they are being revamped, thanks to our squeaky wheel.

For those wondering who would choose single stat pots over tri-pots, this was explained in the Twitch back in January when all these changes were announced. The Crown Store consumables are geared to weekend warriors who have more money than time, and can afford to buy items that will help them level without spending game time farming or learning a craft. It's to our benefit, as it harms no one and adds to ZO$ profitability. The latter is pretty important if we want the game to stick around.

What doesn't make sense is why VR10 potions were not added at the same time VR10 recipes were added. Granted, Provisioning got a major overhaul, but overlooking the potion disparity seems a big miss. At the least, current VR5 potions should scale up to higher VR levels

GreySix · March 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We never intended to sell potions in the Crown Store that are stronger than ones you can craft. We have just pulled all Crown Store potions, and will reinstate them with the proper strength very soon. Sorry for any confusion this caused!

Ah, evidence that forum posts matter!

RainfeatherUK · March 2015

GreySix wrote: »

Ah, evidence that forum posts matter!

With @ZOS_GinaBruno there was never any doubt.

Shes a total gem for this game. Hope you never leave us Gina, as you're massively respected in our community

MorHawk · March 2015

Aww, come *on* here. "Ooops, we didn't realize that X was stronger than Y". You guys have the game info! Did the designer forget to actually check, and just pulled a number out his backside?

Whatever the reality, whether crown potions or crafted ones are stronger, the fact that the backtrack happened so soon after it hit live makes me wonder if any thought went into this beforehand. I mean it was on the PTS for weeks! Didn't this come up?

Rylana · March 2015

Good god people, the crown potions were single stat

The crafted stuff is triple stat.

Like, to craft a crown store potion youd only use 2 reagents and a v14 water (if such a thing existed)

I really dont see what the fuss is about.

Rylana · March 2015

Ourorboros wrote: »

Whether intentional or not, the potions for sell were significantly higher in value than the highest possible crafted potions. However, they had limited appeal, being single stat. And, they were very expensive IMO, in terms of crowns. It's all moot now, as they are being revamped, thanks to our squeaky wheel.

For those wondering who would choose single stat pots over tri-pots, this was explained in the Twitch back in January when all these changes were announced. The Crown Store consumables are geared to weekend warriors who have more money than time, and can afford to buy items that will help them level without spending game time farming or learning a craft. It's to our benefit, as it harms no one and adds to ZO$ profitability. The latter is pretty important if we want the game to stick around.

What doesn't make sense is why VR10 potions were not added at the same time VR10 recipes were added. Granted, Provisioning got a major overhaul, but overlooking the potion disparity seems a big miss. At the least, current VR5 potions should scale up to higher VR levels

No, they werent.

A tripotion heals for over 16000 combined stat (about 6000 health, 5000 magicka, 5000 stam), a crown for 7000 on just ONE of those. Youd have to use THREE crown potions (one of each type) to surpass the actual healing to resources and health a single bugloss/columbine/mountainflower tripotion gives you.

Why is this so hard to understand.

Edit to add: Quoted the wrong post, person i meant to quote was claiming the single state crown potions were in every way better than anything you count craft, period. I aint digging back through the pages to find the post. Wasnt you.

MorHawk · March 2015

Someone raised a good point on this. It is really unbelievable that they weren't aware of this, so that leaves the only conclusion that they *did* know, and they were just testing the water to see how we'd react.

Someone complained? Crap, they're onto us. Duck and run.

HeroOfEvbof · March 2015

It's cool they took the potions away to be fixed. I don't mind because the way I play I always, always need whatever advantage I can get from Laboratory Use.

I will use Vanish+Increased Movement. I also like the extended duration "just magicka".

I would never buy a Crown store magicka potion because I can make the extended duration one any time I have more Lady Smock than Columbine (trust me, I will always have Cornflower equal to Lady Smock and Columbine combined)

As for a straight Health potion - if my Health is in trouble its because something else has contributed - I cant break free, or I aggroed to much or I can't pop a self heal. Regardless of what contributed to being low on Health it is to my tremendous benefit to have a second or third effect to go with the restored health - even if that is simply restoring my attack stat and popping my crit up and going to town on the mobs.

Anyways, they promised Crown potions would be weaker. There was a bug. They are working on it. Pretty normal day in the life of ESO.

anitajoneb17_ESO · March 2015

*** yeah, they have nothing better to do than "test" us, and they're soooo afraid of our reaction.... LOL

; i think it's simply a mistake (and a small mistake with few consequences) and they're correcting it and that's it.

P3ZZL3 · March 2015

I'm with @Morhawk on this one

Can;t blame a company from trying...

Gidorick · March 2015

'cause...

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We never intended to sell potions in the Crown Store that are stronger than ones you can craft. We have just pulled all Crown Store potions, and will reinstate them with the proper strength very soon. Sorry for any confusion this caused!

Wow. That is surprising that this was addressed so readily considering how much ignore other issues seem to receive.

Razzak · March 2015

MorHawk wrote: »

Someone raised a good point on this. It is really unbelievable that they weren't aware of this, so that leaves the only conclusion that they *did* know, and they were just testing the water to see how we'd react.

Someone complained? Crap, they're onto us. Duck and run.

I have to agree with this. It's either that, or they don't even play their own game and have no idea what potions a player can craft. In either case, it's points to an "interesting" future of crown store.

Varicite · March 2015

Rylana wrote: »

Good god people, the crown potions were single stat

The crafted stuff is triple stat.

Like, to craft a crown store potion youd only use 2 reagents and a v14 water (if such a thing existed)

I really dont see what the fuss is about.

And if you did that you would never have possibly made a potion as good as the ones in the Crown store.

That's what the fuss was about.

Also, they specifically said that they weren't going to do exactly that, which is also part of what the fuss was about.

UrQuan · March 2015

MorHawk wrote: »

Someone raised a good point on this. It is really unbelievable that they weren't aware of this, so that leaves the only conclusion that they *did* know, and they were just testing the water to see how we'd react.

Someone complained? Crap, they're onto us. Duck and run.

Uh huh, sure. Anyone who says things like "it's really unbelievable that they weren't aware of this" has no idea how software updates and testing works.

When you're working to a schedule and deadlines (and you're always working to a schedule and deadlines) you never test everything. It's impossible. You test as much as you can based on the available resources, and you do as many test iterations as required, based on the number of builds that you have (and the number of builds always varies based on what portions of the code are available when, and what fixes need to be done that will require a new build).

Things get missed. Always.

In this particular case, it seems likely that they set it up so that it would be not quite as good as player-crafted potions at the levels that match the levels that players can craft potions (ie. level 3, 10, 20, 30, 40, VR1, VR5), but set it up to scale based on the level of the character using it. They probably failed to set a maximum level of VR5 for the potion to scale to, and missed that in their testing.

This is much more likely than the conspiracy theories... Especially as they pulled the potions right away as soon as someone mentioned it. If it was intentional then they would have said something like "well, player crafted ones are still better at the right levels, and even above VR5 they're better because player crafted potions can have up to 3 effects, and provide the buff for longer, but we hear your concerns and will change it accordingly".

MorHawk · March 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

MorHawk wrote: »

Someone raised a good point on this. It is really unbelievable that they weren't aware of this, so that leaves the only conclusion that they *did* know, and they were just testing the water to see how we'd react.

Someone complained? Crap, they're onto us. Duck and run.

Uh huh, sure. Anyone who says things like "it's really unbelievable that they weren't aware of this" has no idea how software updates and testing works.

When you're working to a schedule and deadlines (and you're always working to a schedule and deadlines) you never test everything. It's impossible. You test as much as you can based on the available resources, and you do as many test iterations as required, based on the number of builds that you have (and the number of builds always varies based on what portions of the code are available when, and what fixes need to be done that will require a new build).

Things get missed. Always.

In this particular case, it seems likely that they set it up so that it would be not quite as good as player-crafted potions at the levels that match the levels that players can craft potions (ie. level 3, 10, 20, 30, 40, VR1, VR5), but set it up to scale based on the level of the character using it. They probably failed to set a maximum level of VR5 for the potion to scale to, and missed that in their testing.

This is much more likely than the conspiracy theories... Especially as they pulled the potions right away as soon as someone mentioned it. If it was intentional then they would have said something like "well, player crafted ones are still better at the right levels, and even above VR5 they're better because player crafted potions can have up to 3 effects, and provide the buff for longer, but we hear your concerns and will change it accordingly".

Heh, wondered how long it'd take for the 'if you don't agree you don't understand it properly' argument. Good try, really, but that can only go so far.

All they had to do was compare two very unambiguous values to one another. So no dice. And as you say, they pulled it *very* quickly once it was mentioned. No 'hang on, let's have another look at this'. If you're telling me that doesn't smell fishy to you, then you don't understand it properly.

deepseamk20b14_ESO · March 2015

Because you have low alchemy skill?

UrQuan · March 2015

MorHawk wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

MorHawk wrote: »

Someone raised a good point on this. It is really unbelievable that they weren't aware of this, so that leaves the only conclusion that they *did* know, and they were just testing the water to see how we'd react.

Someone complained? Crap, they're onto us. Duck and run.

Uh huh, sure. Anyone who says things like "it's really unbelievable that they weren't aware of this" has no idea how software updates and testing works.

When you're working to a schedule and deadlines (and you're always working to a schedule and deadlines) you never test everything. It's impossible. You test as much as you can based on the available resources, and you do as many test iterations as required, based on the number of builds that you have (and the number of builds always varies based on what portions of the code are available when, and what fixes need to be done that will require a new build).

Things get missed. Always.

In this particular case, it seems likely that they set it up so that it would be not quite as good as player-crafted potions at the levels that match the levels that players can craft potions (ie. level 3, 10, 20, 30, 40, VR1, VR5), but set it up to scale based on the level of the character using it. They probably failed to set a maximum level of VR5 for the potion to scale to, and missed that in their testing.

This is much more likely than the conspiracy theories... Especially as they pulled the potions right away as soon as someone mentioned it. If it was intentional then they would have said something like "well, player crafted ones are still better at the right levels, and even above VR5 they're better because player crafted potions can have up to 3 effects, and provide the buff for longer, but we hear your concerns and will change it accordingly".

Heh, wondered how long it'd take for the 'if you don't agree you don't understand it properly' argument. Good try, really, but that can only go so far.

All they had to do was compare two very unambiguous values to one another. So no dice. And as you say, they pulled it *very* quickly once it was mentioned. No 'hang on, let's have another look at this'. If you're telling me that doesn't smell fishy to you, then you don't understand it properly.

Did you miss the part where I explained that in any software release it's impossible to test everything, and as a result there will always be things missed? That part isn't speculation from me, that's based on my experience in IT working on software releases. Yes, all they had to do was compare values. Obviously they didn't, because they didn't get to test everything.