5 slots is not enough for our bars.

CMG138 · March 2015

This is something that has bothered me since launch, although I'm not sure if anyone has posted about it. 5 slots is definitely not enough to be very versatile. Every other MMO that I've played gives you at least 10, which I think is a much more reasonable number. I can't be the only one who has to change their skill bar depending on what kind of enemies they're going to face. If we had 10 slots, our combat styles could be much more unique, and it could lead to people spamming abilities less in PvP. Of players would have a lot more passives, but I think that would really bring out the differences in classes. I understand why ZoS only gave us 5 slots, they had to cater to console players, of course we can see how successful it's been on that field.

starlizard70ub17_ESO · March 2015

The questions above ^ have been asked more times then can be comprehended. The horse is dead.

CMG138 · March 2015

Well, we might as well keep kicking it.

GlassHalfFull · March 2015

Yes, the horse is dead. Basically with this game you need to use your brain to plan for an encounter more than just using a finger to spam one of ten skills.

CMG138 · March 2015

So instead we should just spam one of five skills?

Kragorn · March 2015

GlassHalfFull wrote: »

Yes, the horse is dead. Basically with this game you need to use your brain to plan for an encounter more than just using a finger to spam one of ten skills.

While I know you're desperately trying to portray the combat in this game as something deep and complex, in fact the fewer the number of skills the LESS SKILLFUL you need to be to play.

'Plan for an encounter'?

Wut?

You mean spending time to re-slot skills in your action bar before every encounter is SKILLFUL? It's certainly bloody boring and an utter waste of time. When playing games which allow for tens of skills to be available I spend time PLAYING THE GAME, not faffing with the UI every 30 seconds.

CMG138 wrote: »

So instead we should just spam one of five skills?

Well no, 10, because the game's battle mechanics are HUGELY expanded in depth by having the gear-swap ability to give you another 5 to select from.

The sad fact @GlassHalfFull would love to ignore is that this game, as all other similar MMOs is based ENTIRELY on skill rotations dictated by the min/maxers and those that figure them out, the majority of players then follow sheep-like in a herd doing what the min/maxers tell them.

And given only 5 skills are available at a time, and weapon swapping is and always has been 'iffy', rotations in ESO are a lot simpler than other games because there are so few buttons to select from.

Few people "think" about how to play most do what they're told, and those that 'think' have precious little to think about the game's mechanics are so simple due to lack of variety.

CMG138 · March 2015

Kragorn wrote: »

GlassHalfFull wrote: »

Yes, the horse is dead. Basically with this game you need to use your brain to plan for an encounter more than just using a finger to spam one of ten skills.

While I know you're desperately trying to portray the combat in this game as something deep and complex, in fact the fewer the number of skills the LESS SKILLFUL you need to be to play.

'Plan for an encounter'?

Wut?

You mean spending time to re-slot skills in your action bar before every encounter is SKILLFUL? It's certainly bloody boring and an utter waste of time. When playing games which allow for tens of skills to be available I spend time PLAYING THE GAME, not faffing with the UI every 30 seconds.

Thank Sithis you understood what I was saying. I was beginning to wonder if I had posted this in English.

Kragorn · March 2015

BTW: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/156827/looking-for-a-templar-build#latest

Demonstrates my point wonderfully.

Kragorn · March 2015

CMG138 wrote: »

Kragorn wrote: »

GlassHalfFull wrote: »

Yes, the horse is dead. Basically with this game you need to use your brain to plan for an encounter more than just using a finger to spam one of ten skills.

While I know you're desperately trying to portray the combat in this game as something deep and complex, in fact the fewer the number of skills the LESS SKILLFUL you need to be to play.

'Plan for an encounter'?

Wut?

You mean spending time to re-slot skills in your action bar before every encounter is SKILLFUL? It's certainly bloody boring and an utter waste of time. When playing games which allow for tens of skills to be available I spend time PLAYING THE GAME, not faffing with the UI every 30 seconds.

Thank Sithis you understood what I was saying. I was beginning to wonder if I had posted this in English.

Oh your point was very clear, some ZOS defenders though feel the need to try to avoid reality whenever that reality paints a less than flattering light on some aspect of ESO or other.

DanielMaxwell · March 2015

CMG138 wrote: »

This is something that has bothered me since launch, although I'm not sure if anyone has posted about it. 5 slots is definitely not enough to be very versatile. Every other MMO that I've played gives you at least 10, which I think is a much more reasonable number. I can't be the only one who has to change their skill bar depending on what kind of enemies they're going to face. If we had 10 slots, our combat styles could be much more unique, and it could lead to people spamming abilities less in PvP. Of players would have a lot more passives, but I think that would really bring out the differences in classes. I understand why ZoS only gave us 5 slots, they had to cater to console players, of course we can see how successful it's been on that field.

While I agree with you and @Kragorn about the number of buttons being to few , those who claim that it makes for a more tactical or strategic game will dismiss anything that you say that creates any reasonable doubt about , or disproves , their point .Failing at that they will repeat their views until you collapse from exhaustion .

CMG138 · March 2015

Kragorn wrote: »

CMG138 wrote: »

Kragorn wrote: »

GlassHalfFull wrote: »

Yes, the horse is dead. Basically with this game you need to use your brain to plan for an encounter more than just using a finger to spam one of ten skills.

While I know you're desperately trying to portray the combat in this game as something deep and complex, in fact the fewer the number of skills the LESS SKILLFUL you need to be to play.

'Plan for an encounter'?

Wut?

You mean spending time to re-slot skills in your action bar before every encounter is SKILLFUL? It's certainly bloody boring and an utter waste of time. When playing games which allow for tens of skills to be available I spend time PLAYING THE GAME, not faffing with the UI every 30 seconds.

Thank Sithis you understood what I was saying. I was beginning to wonder if I had posted this in English.

Oh your point was very clear, some ZOS defenders though feel the need to try to avoid reality whenever that reality paints a less than flattering light on some aspect of ESO or other.

I'm honestly surprised that ZoS has any defenders.

danovic · March 2015

Think the reason they did it because from the start this was designed for consoles not pc's so they designed it for game controllers. I'm hoping after the game console release they will come to there senses and add at least 1 more button I find i'm always 1 short of the perfect setup. After june 9th please add at least 1 more ability to the bar?

Lord Xanhorn · March 2015

The game offers the most flexibility of any other AAA MMO out there. That means that you control your character's abilities in combat. Even GW2 which has a similar wep swap ability pigeon holes you into certain abilities. The 5 spots per bar is a way to make you think about how you want to play your character. You can't be good at everything all the time. 10 slots ensures that.

CMG138 · March 2015

Lord Xanhorn wrote: »

The game offers the most flexibility of any other AAA MMO out there. That means that you control your character's abilities in combat. Even GW2 which has a similar wep swap ability pigeon holes you into certain abilities. The 5 spots per bar is a way to make you think about how you want to play your character. You can't be good at everything all the time. 10 slots ensures that.

I fail to see how 10 slots would ensure that. ESO has more skills than anything else that I've seen, but if you can't utilize more than what feels like a bare minimum, that flexibility doesn't matter too much.

Sotha_Sil · March 2015

We are not talking about adding 100000000 slots. Just one more on each bar would really make a difference. We have had many abilities revamped making them useful in 1.6. Furthermore new abilities were implemented in alliance war.

Right now, it's a pain to change just one ability in PVP because you need it at a special moment (siege bubble for example..) and you don't have a spot to spare when you choose carefully your skills for fights and each of your 10 skills matter for different situations you can encounter.

Please give us just one more. I know they said no a thousand times but after 1.6, I kindly ask to reconsider.

DeLindsay · March 2015

10+2 is enough for the most part but I can't honestly say I wouldn't mind it being 16+2 (8 per Weapon bar), no more though as it just gets to be too much.

phreatophile · March 2015

Yes, we do need more.

No, we won't get more.

Many will praise a system limited to the number of buttons on a controller as making you think.

Seems legit, maybe we can only remember a small percentage of our abilities at one time as a symptom of lingering brain damage from Mannimarco killing us.

I still think it has to do with an imput method with a serious lack of buttons. Thank the divines it wasn't made by Apple.
IESO would only have 1 button.

Lord Xanhorn · March 2015

CMG138 wrote: »

I fail to see how 10 slots would ensure that. ESO has more skills than anything else that I've seen, but if you can't utilize more than what feels like a bare minimum *AT ONE TIME*, that flexibility doesn't matter too much.

I fixed your statement in bold.

The flexibility needs to be limited so you can fulfill different roles effectively. If everyone can do everything then all the characters become homogenized and stale. Ranged offense, Melee, offense, surviability, tanking, healing, utility, CC, buffing, debuffing....All of these are choices you have to make to be good at. You can't and shouldn't be able to be good at everything.

yodased · March 2015

but. but. but, the bar only has 5 spaces, so technically its the perfect amount.

deepseamk20b14_ESO · March 2015

If you're spamming one button it's not the games fault, you're just a bad player. I use everything on my bar and choose my abilities based on a lot of thought and testing.

However, I wouldn't mind at least 1 more slot per bar

. Though I don't think we need more. Even games that have 30 skills get just as boring. Best example? FFXIV. Sure you have A LOT of skills but there is 1 or 2 rotations that are used for everything. Why not cut out the crap and keep what matters and get rid of the filler? It also involves a lot more balancing. Another game, Tera, even that game I found that there were a few rotations that you would use over and over again and that was supposedly "true action combat!"

Also most other games have large cool downs. This game has miniscule ones. I say either add one more slot of just keep it the same.

And to the ding *** who doesn't think changing your bars to react to the threat means skill....I hope you never join the military. Because battle is always about adaption, and finding weak points. If this means changing a configuration to get the job done, then that's what happens.

Rune_Relic · March 2015

If you had 6 slots.... you would need 6 actives for everything.
At the moment you can have all the 5 balanced [hehe] actives for the loaded weapon..or.. you can swap out class/guild/armor active instead.
The whole point is you have to make sacrifices....if they are bad you suck... if they are good you win.
Choice is yours.
Everyone in the meantime thumbles around with lots of combos trying to find the IWIN one.
Many will be sheep and copy the FOTM build....some will be original and unique and actually use the brain they were given...some will adapt on the fly.

5 is fine.

Darkonflare15 · March 2015

With skills now having the same buffs I find that I do not that many skills anymore.

eliisra · March 2015

5+5 would be acceptable if it weren't for toggles. In reality anyone with a magicka build(or sorcerer + NB stam if using the class skill) only gets 9-7 skills slots. Even less if you're a pet togglemancer. Than makes game play less fun...unless you actually like mashing 2 button only.

Maybe add a separate toggle slot, while also making sure all classes and types of builds, both tank, stamina and magicka, have something nice to put in there? Or just ditch toggles altogether.

Panda244 · March 2015

No.

There is no argument valid enough to explain why you should need or want anymore, Ten Skills and Two Ultimate Skills is enough for every encounter, one bar for AoE, one bar for Single Target. There, you're good to go. It's really the only thing making this game unique at the moment, it would also force them to overhaul PvP in order to balance the ability to use more than we currently can. The only exception is that toggle abilities such as Mage Light and Inferno, or Sorcerer Pets, any toggle ability should be put on a separate bar.

Edit: The other thing I like about this is it forces people to gear and specialize for certain encounters in Cyrodiil, so every build has a counter-build and every counter-build's build has a counter-build.

CMG138 · March 2015

To everyone who says that having only 5 skills requires you to be good at ESO, I certainly hope you don't use addons, specifically ones that I see in so many videos that are posted that tell you exactly what buttons to push and what debuffs are placed on you.

Also, PvP would not have to be rebalanced. Hypothetically speaking, if we were to have 8 to 10 slots, we would still not have enough stamina or magicka to be able to use them all in a short period of time, at which point players would then have to decide which ability is best for that specific situation, which would make the game more enjoyable instead of trying to guess what the best 5 skills are for every situation. This is something that you'd think would be more important for PvP because the situation can change very quickly and you most likely won't have the chance to change your bar when things do change.

Ad.Absurdum · March 2015

danovic wrote: »

Think the reason they did it because from the start this was designed for consoles not pc's so they designed it for game controllers. I'm hoping after the game console release they will come to there senses and add at least 1 more button I find i'm always 1 short of the perfect setup. After june 9th please add at least 1 more ability to the bar?

this. in addition does the combat become very dull after a while because of the limited number of skill you can use, worst is summoner sorc. but the entire ui was from the beginning substandard compared to other mmos and i don't think that zos will reconsider that. technically eso (not only ui) is not very well done and zos prefers to to close their eyes instead of fixing it. they think that substandard performance is ok since it was not much diffferent for bethesdas single player games. unfortunatly for them this is not so much accepted for mmo's.

Sotha_Sil · March 2015

Panda244 wrote: »

The only exception is that toggle abilities such as Mage Light and Inferno, or Sorcerer Pets, any toggle ability should be put on a separate bar.

That could also work

but only one more slot.

Andferne · March 2015

I'm happy with my 15 ability choices and 2 Ultimate's.

kokoandshinb14a_ESO · March 2015

is there an addon that displays the 2 useable skill bars?

that

would be very, very useful

gurugeorgey · March 2015

I think it depends. I think 10 skills is actually a pretty decent balance.

The thing is, with MMOs you can have a choice, either you have lots of skills and lots of them available, but they don't do very much of any note, ie. there's not much "oomph" to any of them; or you have less skills that are more well defined, more definite, more powerful, and you can actually learn to use them really well (because you're forced to wring out the max of what can be done with combos of them because of the limited selection).

I played EQ2 for a while, and yes, there's a lot of fun to be had having a massive toolbox; but a massive toolbox is perforce a toolbox wherein no particular tool stands out all that much, and in the long run I prefer having "big", well-defined abilities with lots of oomph, and I like the way you can experiment in the game to find a combination to suit your playstyle, and the limitation helps you focus in that way, helps you find a combo that's uniquely yours.

Another point, worth noting in this context, is that actually you can usefully use only a few keys quickly and effectively (i.e. those near your index, middle and ring fingers, with pinky handling shift and CTRL, thumb maybe on ALT), so keys like 3 and 4, maybe 5, with E, R, Q, F, Z, C, V, with 1 and 2 suitable for ring finger. (obviously everyone's got their variations, but just as a general idea). Other keys, being less to hand, are mostly either for situational abilities or abilities you don't need to trigger very often for one reason or another. So there's a kind of "natural" limitation right there anyway.

Vostorn · March 2015

New ultimate ability :
Swap Skills
On first activation, brings you to a second set of abilities. On second activation, brings you back to the first set.
Each activation costs x¹ ultimate.

Morph A :
Surplus of ultimate will not be wasted.

Morph B :
Activation costs less ultimate.

Morph C (yeah, I know, it should be only two but don't know which to choose) :
When switching back to a set, each toggle that were active before the last switch are active again. (i.e. toggle a is active on first set and ulti is used a first time, toggle a becomes inactive. Toggle a will become active again on ulti 2d activation).

¹ : This ultimate costs determines the balance of this skill.