5 slots is not enough for our bars.

CMG138

Vizier wrote: »

CMG138 wrote: »

An ability's passive only applies while you're using that current bar. If I have a toggle ability, then swap weapons after I activate it, it no longer has an effect. That's why it doesn't count.

If you cast a spell with a duration switch bars and it is still active then it doesn't matter if you have to switch bars. shrug.

That's great. Still doesn't help me with my toggle abilities.

Ziyi

What I would love is not necessarily more spells at a time, especially coming from wow, and my 6 action bars, almost all full with pretty much every option available - but I would love to be able to save sets of bars. I find it ridiculously annoying to have to go to my skills page as much as I do to have to rework my bars for a given boss, area, pve/pvp, healing or dps, the bar with all the skills I need to level when I turn in a quest or level up. I'm fine with having as many as a time, but I don't understand how it would be a problem to be able to save different set-ups I made.

skarvika

Agree...having only 5 skill slots is so aggravating because it shoehorns me into playing a specific role, which is the exact opposite of what was being said in the period leading up to the game's launch.
This is terrible especially for me playing as a templar, because templars are by nature an extremely rounded class that should be able to do a little bit of everything. We have magicka based dps, healing and stamina based weapon skills...but with only 5 slots you can't be near as effective as you should be. Everyone should have a gap closer attack for pvp...so after putting one of thos eon, I have 4 slots left. I can put a couple sustainability skills like Sun Shield and Rushed Ceremony to keep myself alive, but now I haven't any space for offense. I can put on a blend of stamina and magicka based attacks to ensure that I don't run out of either reserve too easily, but now I haven't got spots for sustainability and I'm getting swatted like a fly. It's extremely counterproductive to the class, because like I said, it is a balanced class and not one that specializes in one style of play. I can't speak too much on other classes, I'm the type of player that sticks on one char but for me, that's how it is.

Singular

Lord Xanhorn wrote: »

The game offers the most flexibility of any other AAA MMO out there. That means that you control your character's abilities in combat. Even GW2 which has a similar wep swap ability pigeon holes you into certain abilities. The 5 spots per bar is a way to make you think about how you want to play your character. You can't be good at everything all the time. 10 slots ensures that.

hahaha!

Nice joke

Singular

ellgarf wrote: »

CMG138 wrote: »

I understand why ZoS only gave us 5 slots, they had to cater to console players, of course we can see how successful it's been on that field.

And not just consoles. Unless you're using specialist gaming/mmo hardware or have unnaturally long fingers you'll struggle to hit keys 6-0 in combat without compromising your movement. For me, the action control style is better served by the smaller bar setup, and the 10 button bar/multibar is best left to the tab-target style game where you can freely click away.

Maybe a 6 button bar could work, but that may be a stretch for many

Totally disagree you. On my DDO characters, I learned around 35 buttons to make a highly responsive character. Admittedly, it was only PVE, but I outperformed almost everyone I grouped with. I'm not trying to brag, just point out that if you can set buttons to your liking and if you can learn them so they become second nature, then your character performs at a much higher level than otherwise.

With ESO, I never reach that level. I can't learn my 6 button bar (5+ult) b/c of the need to constantly change it for differing encounters. Possibly with Wykkyd's Outfitter, that will come.

Drachenfier

Need a couple more hotkeys available at a minimum.

Rune_Relic

How about doing what they do with the addons...make changes you have to reload the ui.
So how about having multiple character and tool bar setups....but you are forced to relog if you want to swap gear/weapon set.

This stops people loading any wepaon armour set on the fly....but lets you store any number of setups that you can swap to with auto relog.

1. there is no combat exploit.
2. no more swapping out bits of armour and certain weapons to make/try different combos.

Deliverance

Look, we get the swap 5 slots and an ultimate for the same reason that we get the atrocious quickslot system, the endless lists, and a UI that is pretty damn poor for a PC game, and that reason is the same as the reason behind Oblivion's and Skyrim's poor UI's compared to Daggerfall and Morrowind - namely that console controllers and TVs have been chosen as the lowest common denominator that dictates the UI.

Which isn't a bad choice, mind you, if the choice of design is a one size UI fits all platforms. It just sucks for those that play on platforms with IO devices that aren't that limited.

This means making sure there's enough space around text and large enough fonts that it is easy to read on a TV at a distance, that they don't use grid based inventories as that is easy to navigate with a mouse but slower than lists with a controller for most people or nice little buttons to select sorting filters that are easy to access with a mouse, and that you don't give the player the ability to activate more abilities with keybindings than can conveniently be handled swiftly with a stock controller if you want to avoid the endless discussions about "fairness" and some users having advantages over others due to the platform they play on, and ESO has been promoted with PVP from the day on, so it'll be a cold day in hell before PC users get a decent PC interface for Bethesda/ZeniMax; We'll continue getting the best they can come up with within the limitation that has to work great on a big screen TV when using a controller.

As the developers know very well that modding ES games - and in particular, modding away as many of the console-inspired decisions that work poorly on PC as possible - was very, very, popular in Oblivion and Skyrim, and as in general PC MMORPGs tend to have live modding scenes, we are given the application hooks necessary to create many mods and UI enhancements that can alleviate aspects of the poor PC UI, but the one thing you can be sure we won't be getting unless the design philosophy changes is the ability to make more keybindings for 1-key actions than controllers can do with 1-button actions.

Those are the breaks.

Dreamo84

Consoles have more than five buttons. Look at FFXIV they let you use virtually unlimited number of skills on console.

Real reason is action combat and too many buttons can make for a very unpleasant experience. Game is hectic as it is!

Cody

I would be fine with ONE more slot. ONE. that's it.

I like the fact I am forced to strategically plan my build. It forces me to understand my limits and work to fight them, hard to do that when you have about 9 abilities at once on screen:/

Deliverance

Dreamo84 wrote: »

Consoles have more than five buttons. Look at FFXIV they let you use virtually unlimited number of skills on console.

And strangely enough, the game has a considerable need for buttons that are not skill-actions, meaning that you cannot allocate all buttons on the controller to skills.

Look at the XBox and PlayStation controllers, which have been a target since early in development, count the buttons, subtract what you need for all the non-skill uses and, if your design calls for every skill to be usable with one key-press due to the action-nature of combat, you end up with a severe limit on the number of skills.

Use another design paradigm such as e.g. cycling through skills, selecting them in a hierarchy using multiple button presses, or selecting them by pressing button combinations, and you can easily have more skills available on a controller, but that was not the design chosen for ESO.

Real reason is action combat and too many buttons can make for a very unpleasant experience. Game is hectic as it is!

Except... on a PC using a keyboard and mouse, the game wouldn't be more hectic or a more unpleasant experience for most players if you could access skills using one skillbar matched to more keys rather than two that swapped, because the input device is good for that sort of thing and has plenty of keys to spare for one-touch actions.

Using a keyboard, accessing 10 skills plus 2 ultimate skills by using six buttons to match six skills with a seventh button to switch between two sets makes for a more unpleasant experience than using twelve buttons to match to the twelve skills, and due to the ability to keyboard remap, a player can set up the twelve keys as he likes, whether he prefers the top row of 1-0,+,´ (for one-press action) or he prefers a 1-6 and S+1-S+6 (one press action on most used, shift-press action for rarer used actions), or whatever.

Using two sets of six actions that you swap between with a seventh key would be an atrociously bad design for any action game or MMO designed exclusively for PC, which is why it doesn't happen.

Septimus_Magna

I would like to see one extra slot for toggle abilities which will be active on both bars.This will benefit everyone and gives more diversity to skill bar setups without completely unbalancing the game mechanics.

Console players only have a few buttons available so more active skill slots wont be possible for both console and pc. Even though I personally dont care about console players I think they should be taken into account when suggesting game improvements.

Yerena

skarvika wrote: »

Agree...having only 5 skill slots is so aggravating because it shoehorns me into playing a specific role, which is the exact opposite of what was being said in the period leading up to the game's launch.
This is terrible especially for me playing as a templar, because templars are by nature an extremely rounded class that should be able to do a little bit of everything. We have magicka based dps, healing and stamina based weapon skills...but with only 5 slots you can't be near as effective as you should be. Everyone should have a gap closer attack for pvp...so after putting one of thos eon, I have 4 slots left. I can put a couple sustainability skills like Sun Shield and Rushed Ceremony to keep myself alive, but now I haven't any space for offense. I can put on a blend of stamina and magicka based attacks to ensure that I don't run out of either reserve too easily, but now I haven't got spots for sustainability and I'm getting swatted like a fly. It's extremely counterproductive to the class, because like I said, it is a balanced class and not one that specializes in one style of play. I can't speak too much on other classes, I'm the type of player that sticks on one char but for me, that's how it is.

skarvika is absolutely got the point. To 5-slots-is-more-than-enough-defenders I want to say that until ZoS will provide non-lagging swapping this gameplay will suck as hell with diversity and usability.
As a sorc and certified togglemancer I`m pretty tired of 2-3 button pressing and would like to combine control skills with attacking ones for example and would vote for 0-9 slots, even if skills have to be nerfed to realize this.

Septimus_Magna

Rune_Relic wrote: »

How about doing what they do with the addons...make changes you have to reload the ui.
So how about having multiple character and tool bar setups....but you are forced to relog if you want to swap gear/weapon set.

This stops people loading any wepaon armour set on the fly....but lets you store any number of setups that you can swap to with auto relog.

1. there is no combat exploit.
2. no more swapping out bits of armour and certain weapons to make/try different combos.

Why would you want something like this? The addon Wykkyd Outfitter works great for switching skill bars and gear but only outside combat, same with mounting for example. It doenst work while you're in combat so there is no exploit possible to my knowledge.

I use the speed buff in Cyrodiil to ride from keeps to battles, just before I arrive at the battle I slot Purge. This reduces my travel time and doesnt help me with anything else.

Lolssi

Yerena wrote: »

As a sorc and certified togglemancer I`m pretty tired of 2-3 button pressing and would like to combine control skills with attacking ones for example and would vote for 0-9 slots, even if skills have to be nerfed to realize this.

Try moving around 4 more buttons to press

Capurnicus

I always figured the 5 slots thing was due to the fact that this was also built for consoles.

Yerena

Lolssi wrote: »

Yerena wrote: »

As a sorc and certified togglemancer I`m pretty tired of 2-3 button pressing and would like to combine control skills with attacking ones for example and would vote for 0-9 slots, even if skills have to be nerfed to realize this.

Try moving around 4 more buttons to press

Huh, I played Kingdoms of the Amalur that way. Maybe its just me and my fingers are too long, but I would gladly have more space to play well And more combos also

Altaire

One thing that don't make sense in this game is a warrior gets same number of slots as a caster, warrior rely on weapons/armor and health to survive. Sure a true caster can wear heavy armor AC gear, but good luck keeping mana up to use those spells/abilities.
ESO needs a quest path to add slots for caster types, I'd like to see sorc get an additional 5+1 slots from the start. Then you might see a lot more diversity in the classes.

RavenSworn

I don't see what the fuss is about with the more slots. If it was for toggle abilities yeah I would say thats needed, perhaps one more button for any toggle abilities but really, having more buttons adds too much clutter to the already streamkined ui screen.

The Combat was meant to be seen, not look at the cds of the buttons. If assuming you have 5 active buttons, you are suppose to just remember your buttons and combos, rather than just waiting on cds, on magicka or stamina availability.

I always say this: I play poker and poker requires you to have the right 'mix'of cards. A full house, straights, a royal flush, etc. Think of it like this game. You want that winning combination. This is not uno where you hold so Many cards in your hand trying to outwit the other player ( which interestingly enough, having more cards in your hand usually leads to failure). Thats where the strategy comes in, the choice of abilities, the decision of which combos work well together. Some are apparent, others require a little bit more thought.

Perhaps the devs did want to bring it to console thus 5 buttons is the optimal amount of Active abilities, but in the end of the day, if you count the amount of buttons actually pressed in a multiple button mmo is really just a few buttons. Think back on a wow warlock rotation, just dots, a dot that increases the current dot, a straightforward spell then another that booms the dots. Thats literally it for every fight. Aoe? Add two more buttons to pressed.

Its this oh *** moments that perhaps caught you out. There are many abilities that has multiple roles, can have multiple aspects to different builds. Take forward momentum and rally, both are good in their own way, both buffs weapon skills and also gives a utility aspect. Take puncturing sweeps amd biting jabs, both are useful in their own way.

In essence, that winning combinations is not by having more abilities, its having the right ones. Food for thought, try this for one quest line: turn off all your ui. Leave it as empty as possible. You can still fight, press your active buttons to fight. Just try it. Its a whole new ballgame my friend.

alaiham2002

danovic wrote: »

Think the reason they did it because from the start this was designed for consoles not pc's so they designed it for game controllers. I'm hoping after the game console release they will come to there senses and add at least 1 more button I find i'm always 1 short of the perfect setup. After june 9th please add at least 1 more ability to the bar?

It would be great

Lynx7386

Think of it like this: Your ability bar is a hand of cards. You have a hand, and your enemies all have their respective hands. You get to choose which cards go into that hand.

The trick is to have a hand that out-plays the one used by your opponent, without knowing what he's going to be using ahead of time. Maybe you need a straight, maybe a royal flush, maybe a full house. You dont really know until the battle happens, but you can try to plan for as many possible contingencies as you can think of.

You could go with a hand full of defensive abilities to try and make yourself unkillable, but you're going to have a hard time beating the other guy down. You could go with a hand full of offensive abilities to maximize your damage, but you may wind up getting killed before you can do much of anything. You could go with a mix, and try to play the middle ground to maximize your advantages against the widest variety of opponents.

No matter which situation, you need to be able to identify what your enemy is using as quickly as possible, and hope you have something to counter it. Personally, I like it this way. I wouldnt argue against one more ability slot, or even an ability slot strictly used for toggle/buff type spells, but I'm fine with it as is.

Sandshark95

I wouldn't mind an extra ability slot on each bar; I don't think it would make a huge difference in terms of gameplay. I'd feel less "cramped" having an extra slot to offer a little more versatility.

However, personally, I think inventory/bank space should be addressed first. I can live without an extra ability slot for a little while longer, but the inventory/bank situation is getting ridiculous. A few motifs, some crafting mats and style materials, some runestones, and BAM! No space to transfer things between characters. I end up spending every piece of gold I earn on one alt on more space, and it's gone in 30 seconds flat. Then it gets astronomically more expensive to buy more. Can't keep spending the gold for space or the time it takes to transfer a few items to an alt.

And then there's the matter of the console Crown Store and the painful absence of a Scuttler or Striped Pony Guar Pet...or a Pony Guar Pet + Guar Mount Bundle... *sniff sniff*

KallistaBlackheart

10 plus to ults is fine. try mastering the system before looking to change it.

Vardahoth

If they gave more than 5slots, button mashers would complain. Games will continue to be dumbed down for the general crowd. Accept it.

I use a razor naga and am thinking if implementing a macro of something like:
6 = `, 1, `
7 = `, 2, `
8 = `, 3, `
9 = `, 4, `
0 = `, 5, `

Yet to test this stuff out.

trimsic_ESO

This being said, it's very hard for ZOS to add new skills in the game.

Where should we put these skills, we only have 5 slots per bar?
Would these new skills be more attractive than the old ones?
But then, does this mean that the old skills would be close to useless?

There are already plenty of skills that are barely used, despite all the effort from ZOS to make them equally attractive. IMHO, this a worthless effort, because as soon as one skill is changed to make it more attractive than it was before, then it replaces another skill in the bar. And 5 skills per bar does not provide enough room for some spare slots where we could place extra skills next to the skills that are an absolute must for our character.

This problem has no solution unless ZOS adds new slots in our bars.

CMG138

Altaire wrote: »

One thing that don't make sense in this game is a warrior gets same number of slots as a caster, warrior rely on weapons/armor and health to survive. Sure a true caster can wear heavy armor AC gear, but good luck keeping mana up to use those spells/abilities.
ESO needs a quest path to add slots for caster types, I'd like to see sorc get an additional 5+1 slots from the start. Then you might see a lot more diversity in the classes.

Really? That would give Sorcs a huge advantage over every other class. Not to mention, they're not the only ones using abilities. As far as everything else goes, I think a lot of people seem to be missing the point I was trying to get at.

xMois

We have a finite amount of buttons on console.. 5 is literally the max until our pro controllers come out.

CMG138

xMois wrote: »

We have a finite amount of buttons on console.. 5 is literally the max until our pro controllers come out.

Oh yea, that was one of my points, there's no reason to hold back the potential a game could have on PC because consoles are limited in so many ways.

xMois

CMG138 wrote: »

xMois wrote: »

We have a finite amount of buttons on console.. 5 is literally the max until our pro controllers come out.

Oh yea, that was one of my points, there's no reason to hold back the potential a game could have on PC because consoles are limited in so many ways.

You do realize we can plug keyboards and the like into X1's right? lol
But as it stands, the game was out for like a year before it came to console and there were still only 5. Pretty sure it's intended and has already been well thought out.

Smuggles

I'm a magic user and I love the system in place. It's different and it definitely makes you put thought into what you place on your bar. I say bar, because swapping mid combat is pretty fluid. With mage light or inferno on both bars, I do end up with only 9 skills.... but that is literally 8 non toggle skills that I can use for most situations. Pvp requires about 3 of my skills to be swapped out; nothing too painful.

Bar 1: single target and molten weapons
Bar 2: aoe and debuffs