Do you think that ESO is primarily an ES game or primarily an MMO? How does it affect your choices

Seraphyel · February 2015

It's neither a good ES-game nor a good MMORPG.

It combines both of each worlds, but unfortunately not the good parts of one of them.

It's fun, it's okay, but it's never great or special.

wraith808 · February 2015

Jeremy wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

When you say Kiosks you mean the guild trader stores scattered through-out the different regions?

Well, yes... because this is what they called them on release.

So you expect players to warp around the earth checking different stores until they find what they need?

That's hardly much better than guild hopping and amounts to the same thing I was saying. In the end it winds up being more trouble than its worth.

Ummm... no. It's shopping around. And you can do that quite well, thank you. And you find good deals that way. And it's the reason that Rawk goes for a lot more than Elden Root, etc. That is a *lot* different than guild hopping. More trouble for you... but nothing but what was intended.

Expecting players - especially new ones - to warp around the entire expanse of Tamriel searching different guild stores in the hope they find a good deal on something isn't realistic. Most players are going to say to hell with this (and rightfully so) and just get by on what they themselves can scavenge.

So in that sense - no - it's not much different than guild-hopping because both are tedious and troublesome. I checked all the guild stores in Shadowfen for example just the other day. All I could find was veteran rank armor for sale. So I think that proves my point considering I was in an area meant for level 30ish.

Rather this is what was intended or not is irrelevant to my argument. I am saying it is a flawed system regardless and needs to be corrected if this game is ever going to have an efficient economy that works for the vast majority of players. Otherwise you are going to continue to see this issue drive away newer players.

The thing is, you don't have to guild hop, nor store hop. There are more than enough stores in each area. Find a good trade guild (or two), then use the ones around your primary area of influence. It's not like you really *need* to buy anything until higher levels anyway.. most things are given to you on a silver platter.

And your opinion is that it's flawed. My opinion is that it's fresh and different and makes you think in different ways... if you open up your mind to it. In the end, neither matter- just want they want to implement.

newtinmpls · February 2015

EsORising wrote: »

It's a great game but i wish people would stop comparing it to Skyrim.

I think that so many people came to it because it's an ES game, there will always be comparisons. I myself don't compare it to skyrim. I compare it to Morrowind.

Vahrokh · February 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

Marenne, if you are right, I'm going to be ignoring the "endgame" content to just wander around in the world.

Yes. Marenne, sadly, is right. I loved ESO so much while levelling up, I slept like 4 hours a night because I couldn't wait to see what awesome adventure was next.

Then VR12 came. I had finished every possible nook and cranny so I entered Craglorn. Did not find any storyline I could enjoy, only some badly made 4 men. I asked around. Got told: "well, dude, now it's time to grind doing < enter here 4 or so totally unfun ways to get XP >.

So damn anticlimactic. A rude slap in the face. A bucket of icy water thrown on your face while you are sleeping in your bed.
The game died for me in that day.

But... at least I had an hope: I joined ESO also for the PvP. Not all is lost!

... and then found out what abusive rubbish it is. Unfun, unbalanced, laggy. Endless horse riding just to end in a massive zerg and be wiped out and have to ress miles away.

newtinmpls wrote: »

All of the jargon-filled combat oriented whining that I hear from players who seem to value the MMO aspect doesn't sound enjoyable to participate in.

I really hope that ESO will open up to player-created quests and content. That would (I suspect) expand the ES aspects.

It's competitive gameplay, everything competitive makes people get emotional.
Even in TES, those 3 factions are not exactly at peace, aren't they?

Too bad, unlike Warhammer, there's no "realm pride" here. No PvP roleplay I loved so much. Yes, you can intensely roleplay while PvPing but you have to have a game that creates the atmosphere, that introduces you to the lore (so even a general MMORPG-er ignoring lore can embrace it).
ESO has none of that.

In Warhammer there were books of grudges miles long, with people who would live to settle long time honor stains, guilds who were leading the others.
Every name, every guild name were well visible. There were guys who were an honor to be killed by, because they had a godlike fame (and not because they rolled a DK but because they were awesome) and if they bothered to not ignore you and stopped by to kill you, it meant you were finally worth being their foe.

Lovelyn · February 2015

I think thinking about this too much stresses me out. I'm only here because my friends play here, but I am disappointed that this game is more MMO than ES. Oblivion gave me nightmares. This one, makes me sleeeeeeeeeeep.

newtinmpls · February 2015

Vahrokh wrote: »

It's competitive gameplay, everything competitive makes people get emotional.
Even in TES, those 3 factions are not exactly at peace, aren't they?

Too bad, unlike Warhammer, there's no "realm pride" here. No PvP roleplay I loved so much. Yes, you can intensely roleplay while PvPing but you have to have a game that creates the atmosphere, that introduces you to the lore (so even a general MMORPG-er ignoring lore can embrace it).

ESO has none of that.

Well ... the factions may mean something to the PvPers, but to me in my personal RPG world, they are basically annoying background gnats. In Auridon, most of the nobles are racist idiots, in Morrowind, most of the nobles are either racist idiots or annoyingly enamored of "the three" (I come to ES from Morrowind. Saying more would be spoilers). In Daggerfall .... well the few interesting folks are way down on the social ladder.

There isn't much for me to be loyal "to".

And given that in ES lore, we've sort of already gone "past" this, I can say with assurance that an age or two from now, well all the petty politics will not matter.

LionheartRichard · February 2015

If this were primary an Elder Scrolls game I'd be able to play in the Alik'r desert at level 1.

It is a MMO. A theme park MMO.

Seraphyel · February 2015

LionheartRichard wrote: »

If this were primary an Elder Scrolls game I'd be able to play in the Alik'r desert at level 1.

It is a MMO. A theme park MMO.

A theme park like WoW is, yes. And in many parts its less ES and less complex than it should be. A shallow ES game paired with dated MMORPG mechanics.

Stroggnonimus · February 2015

IMO it really depends on your play style. As vr14 player im mostly playing this as MMO, but when leveling alts it turn more to TES game. But every TES game is different, Skyrim was different from Oblivion as much as ESO is different from Skyrim. But maybe thats what keeps the series so awesome.

LionheartRichard · February 2015

Stroggnonimus wrote: »

But every TES game is different, Skyrim was different from Oblivion as much as ESO is different from Skyrim.

Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind had a lot more in common with each other than ESO.

This game is obviously not primary an Elder Scrolls game.

Mikoto · February 2015

LionheartRichard wrote: »

Stroggnonimus wrote: »

But every TES game is different, Skyrim was different from Oblivion as much as ESO is different from Skyrim.

Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind had a lot more in common with each other than ESO.

This game is obviously not primary an Elder Scrolls game.

Outside of being first person exploration those three games have a lot of differences. I can see Oblivion->Skyrim but Morrowind was vastly different. By that logic arena, daggerfall, and red guard aren't tes games because they aren't like the more popular three.

wafcatb14_ESO · February 2015

Actually it wants to be both a Single player rpg and a MMO . but its not very good at either, they should have went with either a Single player rpg, or a MMO set in Elder scrolls. instead of trying to be both .

Cogo · February 2015

Deleted

badmojo · February 2015

I think a big problem with ESO players is the tendency to focus on it being an ES game or an MMO, it's both and it's neither. It's just eso.

LionheartRichard · February 2015

Mikoto wrote: »

LionheartRichard wrote: »

Stroggnonimus wrote: »

But every TES game is different, Skyrim was different from Oblivion as much as ESO is different from Skyrim.

Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind had a lot more in common with each other than ESO.

This game is obviously not primary an Elder Scrolls game.

Outside of being first person exploration those three games have a lot of differences. I can see Oblivion->Skyrim but Morrowind was vastly different. By that logic arena, daggerfall, and red guard aren't tes games because they aren't like the more popular three.

Depends, are we talking about the setting or the gameplay experience? To most gamers, when you think of Elder Scrolls you think of a big open world.

wraith808 · February 2015

wafcatb14_ESO wrote: »

Actually it wants to be both a Single player rpg and a MMO . but its not very good at either, they should have went with either a Single player rpg, or a MMO set in Elder scrolls. instead of trying to be both .

Perhaps this is... perception?

It's an MMO set in Elder Scrolls. Any single player RPG thoughts that come along are not intentional from what they've communicated.

Mikoto · February 2015

LionheartRichard wrote: »

Mikoto wrote: »

LionheartRichard wrote: »

Stroggnonimus wrote: »

But every TES game is different, Skyrim was different from Oblivion as much as ESO is different from Skyrim.

Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind had a lot more in common with each other than ESO.

This game is obviously not primary an Elder Scrolls game.

Outside of being first person exploration those three games have a lot of differences. I can see Oblivion->Skyrim but Morrowind was vastly different. By that logic arena, daggerfall, and red guard aren't tes games because they aren't like the more popular three.

Depends, are we talking about the setting or the gameplay experience? To most gamers, when you think of Elder Scrolls you think of a big open world.

Just gameplay. Correct ESO has the big open world but with cadwells and the level zones then it limits the big open world. Perhaps post-vr and level scaling it'll be that way.

seanvwolf · February 2015

LionheartRichard wrote: »

This is definitely a theme park mmo. Anyone expecting another Elder Scrolls game is going to be disappointed.

There is nothing wrong with a themepark mmo. ESO does it well.

I don't really understand the friction some people get about how the game mechanics in ESO don't match (pick TES title here)... because nearly all of the TES titles have their own take on mechanics and shove the game in Tamriel... which is precisely what ESO has done.

Just so you know where I'm coming from: Oblivion brought me into the series after having tried (and failed) to get out of the dungeon in Arena sooo many years ago... Skyrim was a smaller, shorter game and felt quite different to me than Oblivion. All fun games, but really they are quite different. Same with ESO.

Lord_Kreegan · February 2015

There have been far too many compromises of the TES concept for this to be a real TES game.

This starts with the fact that TES games are skill-driven; classes in TES have been little more than groupings of skills with priorities to how fast they level (and players can effectively go "classless")... and every skill is available to every character.

ESO is class-driven and skills are severely bastardized in context relative to TES. ZOS has made them MMO-like. Not all skills are available to every character because then "the holy trinity" couldn't exist.

IMHO that has dramatically impacted the whole nature of ESO relative to its being a TES game.

Seraphyel · February 2015

Mikoto wrote: »

LionheartRichard wrote: »

Mikoto wrote: »

LionheartRichard wrote: »

Stroggnonimus wrote: »

But every TES game is different, Skyrim was different from Oblivion as much as ESO is different from Skyrim.

Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind had a lot more in common with each other than ESO.

This game is obviously not primary an Elder Scrolls game.

Outside of being first person exploration those three games have a lot of differences. I can see Oblivion->Skyrim but Morrowind was vastly different. By that logic arena, daggerfall, and red guard aren't tes games because they aren't like the more popular three.

Depends, are we talking about the setting or the gameplay experience? To most gamers, when you think of Elder Scrolls you think of a big open world.

Just gameplay. Correct ESO has the big open world but with cadwells and the level zones then it limits the big open world. Perhaps post-vr and level scaling it'll be that way.

It would feel much more like ES when there wouldn't be loading screens between the zones.

rawne1980b16_ESO · February 2015

It's missing far too much from both sides to give a definitive answer.

It's a good attempt but could have been a lot better.

Mikoto · February 2015

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

It's missing far too much from both sides to give a definitive answer.

It's a good attempt but could have been a lot better.

Justice, champion system, and spellcrafting does give me a bit of hope in how they implement tes features into a mmo setting.

newtinmpls · February 2015

Obviously it's an ES game by default (taking place in that universe); but I do understand that changes/ compromises have to be made so that it can function as an MMO.

In a single-player game I could pause and stare at the screen for as long as I liked while contemplating which spell/weapon/whatever to do in combat. An online game with other players has to have a real-time component since I'm no longer the only "player" in the universe.

ES (especially Morrowind) had a lot of personalization about and options for skills. I presume that the "bar o 5" is a concession to MMO programing.

I'm also guessing that binding dyed armor to an account is related to that.

However...

It would be better if there were no classes. Balance out the skill bars and let everyone take their pick of ANY bar. Disable the "whatever is on your bar when you 'end the quest' gets experience", and change it to what skills were used (not just on the bar, but actually used) are the ones that benefit.

Right now the game starts with PvE, and then 'ends' or 'graduates' to PvP. This is a mistake on two counts. First the PvPers have to go through a bunch of style they don't like to get where they want - so they start out the PvP part severely aggravated and frustrated at the delay.

Second, the PvE players level the heck up and as a 'reward' they get a chance to do something they never really wanted in the first place.

Instead, how about more of both?

Put dueling arena's in every major area, and allow "challenge to duel" to be one of the "interact with player" options. Maybe even with an emote of throwing down a gauntlet and another one of accepting. This will allow PvP players a bit of what they want earlier on, and possibly encourage PvE players to taste what PvP could be like.

For an increase in content, take advantage of the HUGE ES modding community. Make a subsection of the PTS for people to submit their "dungeons" (have them need to be a descrete instance/adventure - though smarter modders will include known NPCs) and then have the PTS participants vote on them. There is no way any given development team can keep up with demand - they don't have to.

Have such sections (the modded/addons) separate in some way, maybe even with some sort of disclaimer in order to access them.

Lastly, be very very careful with the crown store. ES players are used to quality in the game, and high quality mods/addons. Try to keep the shakedown subtle.

newtinmpls · February 2015

An MMO vs an ES game.

This morning as I was talking about our ESO sibling archers with my spouse, it hit me why this "which approach do you use" question was even occurring to me.

I've heard a lot of comments (back and forth) about the idea of "leveling up" another character. My reaction has always been to not be particularly sympathetic to complaints, because I enjoy the world and I enjoy the process.

Today it hit me - that's the hallmark of an ES game. To enjoy the world. And play in it "again" and "some more". As of this week, my beloved spouse has logged over 3000 hours playing skyrim. I've played many many characters in my favorite ES world: Morrowind. We've both rolled up many characters, knowing full well that we will be doing "the same" things again.

Because they are enjoyable "things" to be doing. Enjoyable worlds to be exploring. Enjoyable NPCs to meet, and love and even hate (what Morrowind player cannot recall the ordinators "move along .... scum").

Coming from an ES background, I'm okay with say getting the justice system instead of a new area - because I'm wanting the world thicker and deeper, not just bigger (I hope you understand what I mean by that - even if you don't agree it's worth wanting).

jeevin · February 2015

Some quotes from the Skyrim website:

1.Epic Fantasy Reborn

Skyrim reimagines and revolutionizes the open-world fantasy epic, bringing to life a complete virtual world open for you to explore any way you choose.

2.Live another life, in another world

Play any type of character you can imagine, and do whatever you want; the legendary freedom of choice, storytelling, and adventure of The Elder Scrolls comes to life like never before.

3.You are what you play

Choose from hundreds of weapons, spells, and abilities. The new character system allows you to play any way you want and define yourself through your actions

From those quotes I would say that freedom to play and explore the game in which ever way tickles your fancy is a BIG part of what Elder Scrolls stands for today. Depth of game mechanics has been watered down from game to game but freedom has been consistent. If it's one thing ESO lacks, it's freedom.

Iluvrien · February 2015

I would like ESO to primarily be an Elder Scrolls game.

What I fear is that primarily it actually is an MMO and will continue to grow closer to the tropes that have constrained the other MMOs that I have played thus far.

Classes (with exclusive abilities) is one of those tropes that I feel uncomfortable with in ESO and I would rejoice to see the class system opened up.

Grileenor · February 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

Do you think that ESO is primarily an ES game or primarily an MMO?

Honestly, what does it matter? It's a game, not a religion. Is this game fun for you, do you enjoy it? Great, play it. Don't you like the game, play something else, done. Really. What good is a label on a product, after you have bought it anyway?

newtinmpls · April 2015

Grileenor wrote: »

Honestly, what does it matter? It's a game, not a religion. Is this game fun for you, do you enjoy it? Great, play it. Don't you like the game, play something else, done. Really. What good is a label on a product, after you have bought it anyway?

I've gone back and forth over your comments - and I decided that after all, I will take a stab at replying to them.

I think that part of "fun" is the curve of anticiption-action-appreciation.

I think that some who were anticipating a more PvE focused game run into trouble and frustration when they encounter PvP heavy content - and vice versa.

So maybe another way to put my question is what mindset is most useful for you to enjoy the game (or a part of it) the most?

SHADOW2KK · April 2015

Started off with Morrowind, then Oblivion and obviously Skyrim, and roll on the next installment:}

ESO is the only MMO I have actually put any effort it, friends tried getting me into WoW and no offence to anyone here who has played it, but screenies and vids of it in action made me very very um contemptuous, the cutesy graphics was the death stroke.

Again no offence to anyone, just my opinon.

Tried Conan and a couple of others, but since Morrowind days, way back in 2001, I have wanted a game set in the Elder Scrolls lands, and here it is.

I do love the game, although parts of it really annoy me, although not gonna go into detail.

But even the most `intense` combat on this game, does not even come close to the epic fights that I have had on the TES games, and I think it is daft to compare, the combat on a TES game (which I infinitely prefer) and a MMO, is completely different, and the joy of exploration is not as potent as in the TES games.

And the quest system is truly diabolical IMO, compared to the TES games, I appreciate the scripted dialogue, but uh that is about it

But there are many things about the game I do love.

But I see the game as a MMO which has Elder Scrolls flavouring IMO.

And before anyone bashes me or w/e, know this, its my opinon and I am a big time fan of the TES games, and also the good parts of ESO.

MercyKilling · April 2015

One of the first PC games I ever played was Morrowind.

THE first MMO I ever played was City of Heroes.

I find this game to be not enough Elder Scrolls AND not enough MMO. It's lacking on both fronts for me.