Do you think that ESO is primarily an ES game or primarily an MMO? How does it affect your choices

newtinmpls · February 2015

Jeremy wrote: »

It was naïve for the developers to think players wound bind together in guilds and take care of each other's economic needs.

I really wish you would expand on this.

I'm in a high-trade guild (East Empire Trading company); I admit I joined mostly because of the name (rabid Morrowind fan here) but also because they had some items for much cheaper than other guild stores. The guild is run by a person who is very much into encouraging (pushing) folks to sell, and the guild encourages selling for relatively cheap - it's very supportive of new or low-rank folks looking for something they can actually afford.

I've seen fellow guild members in chat basically giving away things to confused newbies - it's really nice to see that.

On the other hand I'm also in a guild (The Caemaire) that only exists as an expression of role-playing between some friends; no store, no bank (not enough people) but it's an essential part of our shared "lore" that we have created between us as we explore ESO.

Mikoto · February 2015

Rosveen wrote: »

Mikoto wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

It is neither, instead ESO is more like The Dark Age of Camelot 2. Elder Scrolls is supposed to have an interactive world that encourages exploration and traveling around the map is seamless without loadscreens. The lore of Elder Scrolls has potential for new races and continents, just what a long lasting MMORPG needs.The world of Nirn is full of potential for an epic MMORPG.

The main reason people criticize ESO is not because it is a bad game but the worst Elder Scrolls game. It is the worst Elder Scrolls game because it ignores the lore and the gameplay features unique to Elder Scrolls.

I like ESO for what it is but I do not think it should be called Elder Scrolls.

You obviously never played redguard or even the mobile games with tossing around "worst elder scrolls" title around. Infact most of this is rather lulworthy as ESO -does- expand on the lore. You claim that to be a TRUE tes game it has to be a seamless world without load screens which exploration is a huge part of tes which ESO does capture in a mmo way but because there's load screens its not a true game in the series? Last I check all the tes games have loading.

You are correct in that the PvP is like daoc but it does fit since it was always said that second era was a time of bloodshed due to the lack of the emperor until Tiber Septim united Tamriel. If anything ESO should be more PvP focused than currently due to this.

To get on topic, the game is a hybrid of both which is still working on adding more of the tes elements since mmorpg and tes mechanics can't go hand in hand in just about everything. Just take what works and adapt it into the mmorpg setting.

Did you just imply Redguard is a bad Elder Scrolls game? Or just that it's different from the main series, more different than ESO in fact?

Latter. Different doesn't mean bad. Guess I wasn't specific enough since I was typing it up on my phone at work. Redguard is a great game that is set in the tes universe and plays nothing like the other tes games but you guessed it has elder scrolls in its name.

My entire gripe is that people ran in this game thinking it's damn skyrim online then run out saying it's the worst game in the series because it's not more skyrim.

wraith808 · February 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

It was naïve for the developers to think players wound bind together in guilds and take care of each other's economic needs.

I really wish you would expand on this.

I'm in a high-trade guild (East Empire Trading company); I admit I joined mostly because of the name (rabid Morrowind fan here) but also because they had some items for much cheaper than other guild stores. The guild is run by a person who is very much into encouraging (pushing) folks to sell, and the guild encourages selling for relatively cheap - it's very supportive of new or low-rank folks looking for something they can actually afford.

I've seen fellow guild members in chat basically giving away things to confused newbies - it's really nice to see that.

On the other hand I'm also in a guild (The Caemaire) that only exists as an expression of role-playing between some friends; no store, no bank (not enough people) but it's an essential part of our shared "lore" that we have created between us as we explore ESO.

It really depends on your drive to find items and sell items, and find one or more guilds full of such people. I have the same experience as you, and that honestly probably has a lot to do with my favorable view of the system. Auction houses are a lazy utility for gaining items from others that have it- not a mechanism that even comes close to simulating a medieval economy. But... people want the convenience, and don't want to make any concessions. The Guild trade is enough of a concession to the convenience factor, IMO. I just wish they'd add more to push the PVP aspect. There's a lot they could do to bolster the system, and add more sandbox type play in Cyrodiil... and I thought they were going to do that from the way that it's set up. But they didn't.

newtinmpls · February 2015

Again I'd like to hear you expand on this.

I don't really like board/war games or even chess - so PvP just seems like yet another way for people to bash at each other. I don't understand the appeal. Granted what I've seen of Cyrodil is sadly beautiful (it really looks war torn to me).

What is the fun of PvP? And yes, I expect that for heavy PvPers that will sound like a silly question. I'd really like you to break it down for me.

Jeremy · February 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

It was naïve for the developers to think players wound bind together in guilds and take care of each other's economic needs.

I really wish you would expand on this.

People are constantly going and coming on an MMORPG. It's rare for any one guild to stay active through-out the entire course of a MMORPG's career. So it was very short-sighted of them to think guilds would be able to create stable long-term economies. Because the majority of them won't.

Instead what you are going to end up with is a lot of players (especially newer ones) desperately guild hopping around trying to find a store that has what they need which ends up being more trouble than it's worth.

It's just a poorly developed system built on a very unrealistic concept. They should have been used as an added perk to belonging to a guild and that's it. To try and use them as the fundamental basis for the game's economy was a mistake. At least IMHO.

Barta057 · February 2015

It's an MMO wearing an Elder Scrolls skinsuit, but it's a really loose skin suit so sometimes you see the ugly beast underneath and it gives you chills. You just hope it hasn't caught on or it'll eat your eyes.

frould · February 2015

As TES fan i have no reason to don't play this game and have too many reason to bye if this just a typical mmo.

Jeremy · February 2015

frould wrote: »

As TES fan i have no reason to don't play this game and have too many reason to bye if this just a typical mmo.

I don't think ESO is a typical MMORPG. It stands out in terms of the intricacy of its quests. No other MMORPG out there is as well-written or acted as this game is. I'll never understand why so many players seem not to care about this either. It's important to us in our movies. Why not our video games too?

It also stands out in terms of world exploration and character development. So I would never describe ESO as a typical MMORPG. It has some very impressive qualities that outshines the rest of the competition.

wraith808 · February 2015

Jeremy wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

It was naïve for the developers to think players wound bind together in guilds and take care of each other's economic needs.

I really wish you would expand on this.

People are constantly going and coming on an MMORPG. It's rare for any one guild to stay active through-out the entire course of a MMORPG's career. So it was very short-sighted of them to think guilds would be able to create stable long-term economies. Because the majority of them won't.

Instead what you are going to end up with is a lot of players (especially newer ones) desperately guild hopping around trying to find a store that has what they need which ends up being more trouble than it's worth.

It's just a poorly developed system built on a very unrealistic concept. They should have been used as an added perk to belonging to a guild and that's it. To try and use them as the fundamental basis for the game's economy was a mistake. At least IMHO.

You've actually seen people guild-hopping to get to stores? You can just go to kiosks for that purpose. And if they are, then that's partially the fault of the guild. That's the reason you screen applicants rather than just yelling in zone for people to join. The ones that just let you join willy nilly? Yeah... and many trade guilds are like that. But I've not seen that in the guilds that I'm in... so perhaps your experiences is... personal? And a result of the types of guilds you've joined?

Vahrokh · February 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

Again I'd like to hear you expand on this.

I don't really like board/war games or even chess - so PvP just seems like yet another way for people to bash at each other. I don't understand the appeal. Granted what I've seen of Cyrodil is sadly beautiful (it really looks war torn to me).

What is the fun of PvP? And yes, I expect that for heavy PvPers that will sound like a silly question. I'd really like you to break it down for me.

I originally joined ESO because dang EA closed down Warhammer Online and left DAoC to rot as well.
SWTOR claimed they hired former Mythic (the original Warhammer makers) developers to create their "RvR zones"... and it ended in a catastrophe to the point nobody goes to those few areas.

ESO too hinted at DAoC several times to attract those like me, but came very short. It's pure zerg vs zerg, ultimates spamming, atrociously overpowered specific skills and / or pathetic shields and so on.

Where's the small scale, skilled PvP, where are the long sieges, where are the tactical funnels, the body blocking (perhaps the most awesome Warhammer feature), the pure (and quick) PvP levelling up and gearing up?

I am perhaps the last dinosaur of a dying era, an era when PvP was so fun and true. I am forced to play EvE Online to find any; so much for the "sword and board" theme.

Jeremy · February 2015

wraith808 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

It was naïve for the developers to think players wound bind together in guilds and take care of each other's economic needs.

I really wish you would expand on this.

People are constantly going and coming on an MMORPG. It's rare for any one guild to stay active through-out the entire course of a MMORPG's career. So it was very short-sighted of them to think guilds would be able to create stable long-term economies. Because the majority of them won't.

Instead what you are going to end up with is a lot of players (especially newer ones) desperately guild hopping around trying to find a store that has what they need which ends up being more trouble than it's worth.

It's just a poorly developed system built on a very unrealistic concept. They should have been used as an added perk to belonging to a guild and that's it. To try and use them as the fundamental basis for the game's economy was a mistake. At least IMHO.

You've actually seen people guild-hopping to get to stores? You can just go to kiosks for that purpose. And if they are, then that's partially the fault of the guild. That's the reason you screen applicants rather than just yelling in zone for people to join. The ones that just let you join willy nilly? Yeah... and many trade guilds are like that. But I've not seen that in the guilds that I'm in... so perhaps your experiences is... personal? And a result of the types of guilds you've joined?

When you say Kiosks you mean the guild trader stores scattered through-out the different regions?

wraith808 · February 2015

Jeremy wrote: »

When you say Kiosks you mean the guild trader stores scattered through-out the different regions?

Well, yes... because this is what they called them on release.

Jeremy · February 2015

wraith808 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

When you say Kiosks you mean the guild trader stores scattered through-out the different regions?

Well, yes... because this is what they called them on release.

So you expect players to warp around the earth checking different stores until they find what they need?

That's hardly much better than guild hopping and amounts to the same thing I was saying. In the end it winds up being more trouble than its worth.

newtinmpls · February 2015

I'd originally said:

I don't really like board/war games or even chess - so PvP just seems like yet another way for people to bash at each other. I don't understand the appeal. Granted what I've seen of Cyrodil is sadly beautiful (it really looks war torn to me).

Vahrokh wrote: »

I originally joined ESO because dang EA closed down Warhammer Online and left DAoC to rot as well. SWTOR claimed they hired former Mythic (the original Warhammer makers) developers to create their "RvR zones"... and it ended in a catastrophe to the point nobody goes to those few areas.

ESO too hinted at DAoC several times to attract those like me, but came very short. It's pure zerg vs zerg, ultimates spamming, atrociously overpowered specific skills and / or pathetic shields and so on.

Where's the small scale, skilled PvP, where are the long sieges, where are the tactical funnels, the body blocking (perhaps the most awesome Warhammer feature), the pure (and quick) PvP levelling up and gearing up?

I have no idea what you just said. I am clueless about MMOs in general (only joined this one because it was ES) and the appeal of PvP at all.

Anyone who can break it (the appeal of PvP and what if anything happens other than bashing the crap out of other players) down into non-jargon clarified little itty bitty pieces, pretty please clue me in (which ... may not be possible, I admit) after all it might be like jazz

Snowstrider · February 2015

Rosveen wrote: »

It's an MMO with TES lore. But I came here for TES (stayed for the entirety of this weird blend ESO turned out to be)

Hey! its Rosveen! I remember you from bethesda forums if thats you

Stordrage here

Azzuria · February 2015

It feels a lot like a TES game to me. Playing solo or with a friend, I generally don't see a lot of other people around except in town or delves / public dungeons. There is some ( but not nearly enough ) game / world changing events / phasing to make it feel much more RPG-ish and less cookie-cutter MMO, imho. Freeing a city from bad guys and then walking out into a fully developed, populated, bustling town is AWESOME. Fighting off a pack of werewolves and then going back to see the valley empty is fantastic. Love that about ESO. It's not a full-throated, whole-hog ES experience but it's hybrid enough to make me enjoy it on an ES and an MMO level. It's great playing with my best friend instead of both of us playing Skyrim individually.

Marenne · February 2015

Simple : When you Leveling it's a Tes game
And when you're vet14 it's a MMO

newtinmpls · February 2015

Azzuria, I do really love the ability to play with friends.

I hadn't thought about it, but you are right in that one can 'go back' and see the aftereffects. Recently I finished Bleakrock, and then wanted to go back (some trivial thing, wanting to use the dye station or something).

Well, it had been abandoned because it was overrun by bandits. "Now" it's populated by bandits. I walked into what used to be the store/crafting/dye area and got very killed.

newtinmpls · February 2015

Marenne, if you are right, I'm going to be ignoring the "endgame" content to just wander around in the world.

All of the jargon-filled combat oriented whining that I hear from players who seem to value the MMO aspect doesn't sound enjoyable to participate in.

I really hope that ESO will open up to player-created quests and content. That would (I suspect) expand the ES aspects.

Avatar1109 · February 2015

I think standard ESO the way it is today is an attempt at an MMO. I think the ESO TU will be a very close feel to TES but much larger when it comes to PvE. The PvP portion of the game will be something awesome unlike anything normal TES gamers have experienced.

Soulshine · February 2015

Marenne wrote: »

Simple : When you Leveling it's a Tes game
And when you're vet14 it's a MMO

Actually I would say the opposite.

cesmode · February 2015

I play it as an ES game set in an MMO space. I play for my own story, my own builds, my own adventure, my own gear, etc...in an MMO online consistent space with other players.

The fact that I can group with people to complete public dungeons, 5 mans, and if I ever cared...trials, is just a bonus.

But its pretty clear that this game has no endgame other than what we are all playing 1-50. And I wish ZOS would come out with the genre-first solo endgame progression experience.

Id be in heaven.

wraith808 · February 2015

Jeremy wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

When you say Kiosks you mean the guild trader stores scattered through-out the different regions?

Well, yes... because this is what they called them on release.

So you expect players to warp around the earth checking different stores until they find what they need?

That's hardly much better than guild hopping and amounts to the same thing I was saying. In the end it winds up being more trouble than its worth.

Ummm... no. It's shopping around. And you can do that quite well, thank you. And you find good deals that way. And it's the reason that Rawk goes for a lot more than Elden Root, etc. That is a *lot* different than guild hopping. More trouble for you... but nothing but what was intended.

wraith808 · February 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

Anyone who can break it (the appeal of PvP and what if anything happens other than bashing the crap out of other players) down into non-jargon clarified little itty bitty pieces, pretty please clue me in (which ... may not be possible, I admit) after all it might be like jazz

Do you like competition? Football (either), basketball, baseball? Do you like playing FPS against others? Or RTS?

The drive is no different. PvP is competing against other players, who will always have the potential to be better and less predictable than any AI that the developers can create. And some people like competing against that and all the strategies and tactics involved, in a well constructed arena for such things.

Nothing more or less complicated than that.

Funkopotamus · February 2015

You know this is scary as hell I was going to post a topic stating that the hate and confusion I see about this game stem from people confusing ESO with a single player game and an MMO.

You have the "Casual/Noobs" attacking the "Hardcore's/Neckbeards" with all of the hate I see I have to wonder are we just confused as to what this game is/should be?

Avatar1109 · February 2015

Funkopotamus wrote: »

You know this is scary as hell I was going to post a topic stating that the hate and confusion I see about this game stem from people confusing ESO with a single player game and an MMO.

You have the "Casual/Noobs" attacking the "Hardcore's/Neckbeards" with all of the hate I see I have to wonder are we just confused as to what this game is/should be?

This is what forgone conclusions are all about.

newtinmpls · February 2015

wraith808 wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Anyone who can break it (the appeal of PvP and what if anything happens other than bashing the crap out of other players) down into non-jargon clarified little itty bitty pieces, pretty please clue me in (which ... may not be possible, I admit) after all it might be like jazz

Do you like competition? Football (either), basketball, baseball? Do you like playing FPS against others? Or RTS?

Nothing more or less complicated than that.

Not 'bitty' enough. What is FPS or RPS?

And no, I don't care for most "major" sports or variants on them (fantasy football leaves me not only cold, but confused). Or player vs player boardgames. I'm more the Lifestories [tm] or Transformation [tm] type.

I RPG in the first place to play 'with' rather than against. That definitely shapes how I approach ESO

Jeremy · February 2015

wraith808 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

When you say Kiosks you mean the guild trader stores scattered through-out the different regions?

Well, yes... because this is what they called them on release.

So you expect players to warp around the earth checking different stores until they find what they need?

That's hardly much better than guild hopping and amounts to the same thing I was saying. In the end it winds up being more trouble than its worth.

Ummm... no. It's shopping around. And you can do that quite well, thank you. And you find good deals that way. And it's the reason that Rawk goes for a lot more than Elden Root, etc. That is a *lot* different than guild hopping. More trouble for you... but nothing but what was intended.

Expecting players - especially new ones - to warp around the entire expanse of Tamriel searching different guild stores in the hope they find a good deal on something isn't realistic. Most players are going to say to hell with this (and rightfully so) and just get by on what they themselves can scavenge.

So in that sense - no - it's not much different than guild-hopping because both are tedious and troublesome. I checked all the guild stores in Shadowfen for example just the other day. All I could find was veteran rank armor for sale. So I think that proves my point considering I was in an area meant for level 30ish.

Rather this is what was intended or not is irrelevant to my argument. I am saying it is a flawed system regardless and needs to be corrected if this game is ever going to have an efficient economy that works for the vast majority of players. Otherwise you are going to continue to see this issue drive away newer players.

Dreamo84 · February 2015

It feels more like an Elder Scrolls game than I expected it to honestly. I'm a huge MMORPG fan and a more casual ES fan.

Biggest thing I would have liked to see different is the level gates. Elder Scrolls has always been about open exploration and having content gated by level really bummed me out.

ESO players should just be unleashed upon the world to roam and explore without worry that they've gone outside their playpen.

EsORising · February 2015

Havent you heard? It's both. I just wish people would treat it that way. There are some crazies that think their individual actions should affect everyone in the game like in the single player and so they complain about it not being skyrim. It's a great game but i wish people would stop comparing it to Skyrim.