Does this mean no new content for 6 months?? Yes, it does.

Gidorick · February 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

So you all are aware, I posted this in July on here:

Malpherian ✭✭✭✭
July 2014
Alright seems to be some confusion here:

1. I never actually said ESO was going F2P. I said SG's (Sleepy Giants) specialty is F2P development, Which it is, no matter what else they do, every game they have helped on development went F2P shortly (Being 6 months to a year) after them joining, and I know for a Fact Tera and SWTOR partnered them, right before they went F2P.

Does this mean ESO is going to go F2P? No, SG does do other things with their teams besides F2P, But let me ask you this.

What does F2P Development entail?

* Cash Shop Purchases (This was misstated they handle account management from the purchases)
* Account integration and management
* Marketing, and IN game Marketing Development
* Reception studies for/and Development of Payment Systems

What does SG do?:

* Cash Shop Purchases (This was misstated they handle account management from the purchases)
* Account integration and management
* Marketing, and IN game Marketing Development
* Reception studies for/and Development of Payment Systems

SG does all of that and while this does not mean that they specifically are working on an F2P system for ESO, I guarantee you, they have one ready for display and are encouraging ZOS to go that route, especially with ESO bleeding Subs like they are.

If you ever played a Sub Game that went F2P, you know the first sign is an in game cash shop. If that is added there is a 99.9% chance the game is working it's way toward F2P. I have never played a Subscription MMO that added a cash shop and did not go free to play.

Some games I can use as evidence:

Tera
Aion
SWTOR
Perpetuum
EvE Online (Not Yet F2P but working it's way there according to the Dev blogs)
Rift

Which games have SG partnered with, which then went F2P 6 months to a year, year 1/2 later?

Tera
Aion
SWTOR
Rift

and Now

ESO (Not F2P/B2P yet)

So yes, ZOS has been planning B2P/F2P since right after Launch. The post was flamed out of the forums, but hey.

dude, that's so messed up... that means ZOS was truly using PC Subscribers to fund the development of the console releases and the B2P systems.

I feel so dirty.

That post has nothing to do with the buy-to-play transition. Why is everyone so intent on turning a perfectly commonplace business decision into a massive conspiracy? Game companies are not shadow governments.

Wait... so you're telling me that the Dwemer Masser landing was a hoax?!?!?

Soulshine · February 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

So you all are aware, I posted this in July on here:

Malpherian ✭✭✭✭
July 2014
Alright seems to be some confusion here:

1. I never actually said ESO was going F2P. I said SG's (Sleepy Giants) specialty is F2P development, Which it is, no matter what else they do, every game they have helped on development went F2P shortly (Being 6 months to a year) after them joining, and I know for a Fact Tera and SWTOR partnered them, right before they went F2P.

Does this mean ESO is going to go F2P? No, SG does do other things with their teams besides F2P, But let me ask you this.

What does F2P Development entail?

* Cash Shop Purchases (This was misstated they handle account management from the purchases)
* Account integration and management
* Marketing, and IN game Marketing Development
* Reception studies for/and Development of Payment Systems

What does SG do?:

* Cash Shop Purchases (This was misstated they handle account management from the purchases)
* Account integration and management
* Marketing, and IN game Marketing Development
* Reception studies for/and Development of Payment Systems

SG does all of that and while this does not mean that they specifically are working on an F2P system for ESO, I guarantee you, they have one ready for display and are encouraging ZOS to go that route, especially with ESO bleeding Subs like they are.

If you ever played a Sub Game that went F2P, you know the first sign is an in game cash shop. If that is added there is a 99.9% chance the game is working it's way toward F2P. I have never played a Subscription MMO that added a cash shop and did not go free to play.

Some games I can use as evidence:

Tera
Aion
SWTOR
Perpetuum
EvE Online (Not Yet F2P but working it's way there according to the Dev blogs)
Rift

Which games have SG partnered with, which then went F2P 6 months to a year, year 1/2 later?

Tera
Aion
SWTOR
Rift

and Now

ESO (Not F2P/B2P yet)

So yes, ZOS has been planning B2P/F2P since right after Launch. The post was flamed out of the forums, but hey.

dude, that's so messed up... that means ZOS was truly using PC Subscribers to fund the development of the console releases and the B2P systems.

I feel so dirty.

That post has nothing to do with the buy-to-play transition. Why is everyone so intent on turning a perfectly commonplace business decision into a massive conspiracy? Game companies are not shadow governments.

Commonplace indeed. So much so, that it would be ridiculous of you or anyone else to presume they did NOT actually consider this as plan B from day one, despite all their very public insistence that it was not something they would consider. Change "conspiracy" to "travesty" and you might hit the mark on how they handled said "transition" along with their "business decision."

Seraphyel · February 2015

Cody wrote: »

HippieTheGreat wrote: »

After we get update 6, you probably won't see anything but bug fixes until August. Which sucks...remember that "4-6 week for content updates" promise? Sigh.

Enjoy update 6 for as long as you can, cause update 7 is a looong ways off

well there are quite a few bugs that need fixing. I myself would rather see bug fixes than new content.

Nope, nope, nope.

Zenimax gave us literally no content in the last 10 months. Craglorn, splitted up into two parts, that should have been release content... and Arena. That's it. That's NOTHING.

starkerealm wrote: »

I suspect, Wrothgar's going to be out with the Unlimited launch, or out day of the console launch. But, again, I don't know.

Unlimited launch? That's within the next 6 weeks. We are testing 1.6. There won't be Wrothgar in the next half year, lol.

Kragorn · February 2015

Seraphyel wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

HippieTheGreat wrote: »

After we get update 6, you probably won't see anything but bug fixes until August. Which sucks...remember that "4-6 week for content updates" promise? Sigh.

Enjoy update 6 for as long as you can, cause update 7 is a looong ways off

well there are quite a few bugs that need fixing. I myself would rather see bug fixes than new content.

Nope, nope, nope.

Zenimax gave us literally no content in the last 10 months. Craglorn, splitted up into two parts, that should have been release content... and Arena. That's it. That's NOTHING.

starkerealm wrote: »

I suspect, Wrothgar's going to be out with the Unlimited launch, or out day of the console launch. But, again, I don't know.

Unlimited launch? That's within the next 6 weeks. We are testing 1.6. There won't be Wrothgar in the next half year, lol.

Agreed, ZOS would be insane to release a content update right on the day they hope to be seeing vast numbers of new players causing login queues!

Welka · February 2015

Soulshine wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

So you all are aware, I posted this in July on here:

Malpherian ✭✭✭✭
July 2014
Alright seems to be some confusion here:

1. I never actually said ESO was going F2P. I said SG's (Sleepy Giants) specialty is F2P development, Which it is, no matter what else they do, every game they have helped on development went F2P shortly (Being 6 months to a year) after them joining, and I know for a Fact Tera and SWTOR partnered them, right before they went F2P.

Does this mean ESO is going to go F2P? No, SG does do other things with their teams besides F2P, But let me ask you this.

What does F2P Development entail?

* Cash Shop Purchases (This was misstated they handle account management from the purchases)
* Account integration and management
* Marketing, and IN game Marketing Development
* Reception studies for/and Development of Payment Systems

What does SG do?:

* Cash Shop Purchases (This was misstated they handle account management from the purchases)
* Account integration and management
* Marketing, and IN game Marketing Development
* Reception studies for/and Development of Payment Systems

SG does all of that and while this does not mean that they specifically are working on an F2P system for ESO, I guarantee you, they have one ready for display and are encouraging ZOS to go that route, especially with ESO bleeding Subs like they are.

If you ever played a Sub Game that went F2P, you know the first sign is an in game cash shop. If that is added there is a 99.9% chance the game is working it's way toward F2P. I have never played a Subscription MMO that added a cash shop and did not go free to play.

Some games I can use as evidence:

Tera
Aion
SWTOR
Perpetuum
EvE Online (Not Yet F2P but working it's way there according to the Dev blogs)
Rift

Which games have SG partnered with, which then went F2P 6 months to a year, year 1/2 later?

Tera
Aion
SWTOR
Rift

and Now

ESO (Not F2P/B2P yet)

So yes, ZOS has been planning B2P/F2P since right after Launch. The post was flamed out of the forums, but hey.

dude, that's so messed up... that means ZOS was truly using PC Subscribers to fund the development of the console releases and the B2P systems.

I feel so dirty.

That post has nothing to do with the buy-to-play transition. Why is everyone so intent on turning a perfectly commonplace business decision into a massive conspiracy? Game companies are not shadow governments.

Commonplace indeed. So much so, that it would be ridiculous of you or anyone else to presume they did NOT actually consider this as plan B from day one, despite all their very public insistence that it was not something they would consider. Change "conspiracy" to "travesty" and you might hit the mark on how they handled said "transition" along with their "business decision."

You're very gullible IMO. There never was a plan B. Things are going to plan for ZOS. Getting millions of subs and keeping that model would have been the exception.
I'm not saying you're stupid by the way, I also believed till last minute that we'd keep the sub model. At least until we see how successful the sub model would have been on consoles. I guess we'll never find out.

Kragorn · February 2015

Welka wrote: »

At least until we see how successful the sub model would have been on consoles. I guess we'll never find out.

Given the history of FFXI and even more the on-going huge success of FFXIV, I think it's safe to say there's ample evidence that the 'sub' model works on consoles if the content is high enough quality.

As for your assertion this isn't a 'plan B', pretty sure you're wrong .. and no, that doesn't make me or @Soulshine 'gullible' it's just that, in the absence of FACTS either way, what we're prepared to believe differs from what you're prepared to believe .. the only question in my mind is when plan B got the go-ahead.

schroed360 · February 2015

[/quote]

And you have proof that the timeline for 1.6 (something completely unrelated to the payment model change) would have been different?

Of course not. Evidence is so pesky, isn't it?[/quote]

The proof is 5 patch release in the intented time frame( 4-6 weeks, except 1.5was actually 1 week late).New model : 1.6 will (is already) 1/2/3 month late .Concerning future update ,just forget about it ,it will be once a year.

Seraphyel · February 2015

Kragorn wrote: »

Welka wrote: »

At least until we see how successful the sub model would have been on consoles. I guess we'll never find out.

Given the history of FFXI and even more the on-going huge success of FFXIV, I think it's safe to say there's ample evidence that the 'sub' model works on consoles if the content is high enough quality.

As for your assertion this isn't a 'plan B', pretty sure you're wrong .. and no, that doesn't make me or @Soulshine 'gullible' it's just that, in the absence of FACTS either way, what we're prepared to believe differs from what you're prepared to believe .. the only question in my mind is when plan B got the go-ahead.

ESO is the typical "Warhammer" kind of MMORPG. Wanting to rob the throne from WoW by using excessive budgets and thinking voice acting can hide gameplay and quality issues.

If ESO wouldn't be a hundreds of million $$$ monster and without the license, it could be P2P. But with a budget beyond $100 million, the name and Zenimax approach and outspoken point of view regarding their "game qualities" it was more than clear that ESO is going down the same route as SW:TOR 3 years ago.

Welka · February 2015

Kragorn wrote: »

Welka wrote: »

At least until we see how successful the sub model would have been on consoles. I guess we'll never find out.

Given the history of FFXI and even more the on-going huge success of FFXIV, I think it's safe to say there's ample evidence that the 'sub' model works on consoles if the content is high enough quality.

As for your assertion this isn't a 'plan B', pretty sure you're wrong .. and no, that doesn't make me or @Soulshine 'gullible' it's just that, in the absence of FACTS either way, what we're prepared to believe differs from what you're prepared to believe .. the only question in my mind is when plan B got the go-ahead.

We will never know and bottom line will come down to opinions.
Nevertheless, if you haven't read this, I advise you to do so:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/147220/was-zenimax-stupid-like-a-fox/p1

It would be naive from us to think that the possibility of ZOS planning on B2P from day was never the case. But again, without official statement it's always going to be speculation.

Enodoc · February 2015

Garwulf wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

This thread poses a good question. From what was said on Twitch, sounded like console release will be ver 1.6 in June. That may make sense given we should be seeing 1.6 soon (we hope), and considering the need to lock down the console version to accommodate production logistics. The question is, will PCs see version 1.7 by June. We should, if ZOS sticks to the promised release plan. On the other hand, how many months has it been since 1.5 was released. At this point it seems crazy to believe anything ZOS said before B2P announcement.

And what will 1.7 be?
Presumably 1.7 will have to be free if it is going to be removal of VR . Otherwise buy-to-play becomes buy-not-to-play.

Whenever 1.7 is, there's no reason it can't have free parts and paid parts. eg: removal of VR's as a free part; Wrothgar as a paid part. (Personally I'd like to see Imperial City [free] in 1.7, with extra dungeons like Imperial Prison [paid] and White-Gold Tower [paid].)

Kragorn · February 2015

ZOS have said VRs aren't going away, they've dropped that idea it seems, was in a recent Reddit or something.

As for new content, those who like open world exploration rather than living in a dungeon when not in tow posing haven't had any new content since release, it pisses me off we'll be expected to pay for Orsinium (whenever that may happen) while the dungeon dwellers had three zones but several dungeons of content targeted at that minority (ie. the VR10+).

Enodoc · February 2015

Kragorn wrote: »

ZOS have said VRs aren't going away, they've dropped that idea it seems, was in a recent Reddit or something.

Could you try to find a link to that, please? That would be an interesting read...

Seraphyel · February 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

Kragorn wrote: »

ZOS have said VRs aren't going away, they've dropped that idea it seems, was in a recent Reddit or something.

Could you try to find a link to that, please? That would be an interesting read...

It's somewhere there:

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/esotr-live-w-paul-sage-and-chris-strasz-full-list-of-questions-and-awnsers/

I think they just said, getting rid of VR thing would take much longer than 1.6, Unlimited launch or even the console launch.

nerevarine1138 · February 2015

Seraphyel wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Kragorn wrote: »

ZOS have said VRs aren't going away, they've dropped that idea it seems, was in a recent Reddit or something.

Could you try to find a link to that, please? That would be an interesting read...

It's somewhere there:

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/esotr-live-w-paul-sage-and-chris-strasz-full-list-of-questions-and-awnsers/

I think they just said, getting rid of VR thing would take much longer than 1.6, Unlimited launch or even the console launch.

They just said that they won't be removing VR until after the console launch, so as of now, they still plan on removing VR.

dwtdwtdwt · February 2015

This entire thread is a bunch of people getting upset about speculation.

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

I think it's pretty obvious that they decided to hold back a lot of the content they'd been working on (imperial city, orsinium, murkmire, etc) to sell as DLC .

I'm not saying that it won't happen, but how is it obvious?

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

That being said, the thing that worries me the most is that we might have to wait until June 9th, assuming day 1 DLC (which in and of itself is offensive) or later until they release any additional real content.

You're worried and offended about something that is not necessarily going to happen. So, in actuality, you're worried and offended for no reason at all.

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

being able to pickpocket/steal some mundane items or kill npc's (only to be swiftly destroyed by an indestructible guard) isn't particularly compelling without the Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood.

This may very well be the answer to all your problems. I can see this implemented prior to console release, hence new content prior to your June 9th deadline. Albeit, that would've been nice to have included in 1.6, along with the pickpocketing, but new content in less than 6months nonetheless. And there are ways to escape a guard. L2P.

As far as the Imperial City or Murkmire being released as DLC, I have no problems with this. If I was still going to be paying a monthly sub, and then have to buy an expansion for more big content, I would do that without much question. I have done it before with other successful MMOs. This is nothing new, and nothing to worry about. Think of the DLC as an expansion to the game.

Soulshine · February 2015

Welka wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

So you all are aware, I posted this in July on here:

Malpherian ✭✭✭✭
July 2014
Alright seems to be some confusion here:

1. I never actually said ESO was going F2P. I said SG's (Sleepy Giants) specialty is F2P development, Which it is, no matter what else they do, every game they have helped on development went F2P shortly (Being 6 months to a year) after them joining, and I know for a Fact Tera and SWTOR partnered them, right before they went F2P.

Does this mean ESO is going to go F2P? No, SG does do other things with their teams besides F2P, But let me ask you this.

What does F2P Development entail?

* Cash Shop Purchases (This was misstated they handle account management from the purchases)
* Account integration and management
* Marketing, and IN game Marketing Development
* Reception studies for/and Development of Payment Systems

What does SG do?:

* Cash Shop Purchases (This was misstated they handle account management from the purchases)
* Account integration and management
* Marketing, and IN game Marketing Development
* Reception studies for/and Development of Payment Systems

SG does all of that and while this does not mean that they specifically are working on an F2P system for ESO, I guarantee you, they have one ready for display and are encouraging ZOS to go that route, especially with ESO bleeding Subs like they are.

If you ever played a Sub Game that went F2P, you know the first sign is an in game cash shop. If that is added there is a 99.9% chance the game is working it's way toward F2P. I have never played a Subscription MMO that added a cash shop and did not go free to play.

Some games I can use as evidence:

Tera
Aion
SWTOR
Perpetuum
EvE Online (Not Yet F2P but working it's way there according to the Dev blogs)
Rift

Which games have SG partnered with, which then went F2P 6 months to a year, year 1/2 later?

Tera
Aion
SWTOR
Rift

and Now

ESO (Not F2P/B2P yet)

So yes, ZOS has been planning B2P/F2P since right after Launch. The post was flamed out of the forums, but hey.

dude, that's so messed up... that means ZOS was truly using PC Subscribers to fund the development of the console releases and the B2P systems.

I feel so dirty.

That post has nothing to do with the buy-to-play transition. Why is everyone so intent on turning a perfectly commonplace business decision into a massive conspiracy? Game companies are not shadow governments.

Commonplace indeed. So much so, that it would be ridiculous of you or anyone else to presume they did NOT actually consider this as plan B from day one, despite all their very public insistence that it was not something they would consider. Change "conspiracy" to "travesty" and you might hit the mark on how they handled said "transition" along with their "business decision."

You're very gullible IMO. There never was a plan B. Things are going to plan for ZOS. Getting millions of subs and keeping that model would have been the exception.
I'm not saying you're stupid by the way, I also believed till last minute that we'd keep the sub model. At least until we see how successful the sub model would have been on consoles. I guess we'll never find out.

You seem to misunderstand. I am saying that I did not believe they would keep the sub model, let alone up until the last minute, specifially because of the absence of recent facts around what they were doing to appease complaints regarding delays on console launch. I have posted at length about this in other threads. There was a lot of initial blustering about the repeated delays of the console release dates, which they kept pushing back, and coverage in gaming media about their supposed negotiations with Sony and Microsoft over fees. It was quite obvious they knew the sub model was a problem for that market as they issued statements to that fact. Once they deleted announcements here and threads on Reddit discussing this problem, it was not looking good. Apparently thinking people following the cosole development would forget about it, they announce the B2P transition as a new decision. It was obvious from a long time back it wasn't. What is upsetting to a lot of people is the way in which this was handled, not necessarily the fact that it changed.

ZigoSid · February 2015

They'll never remove VR, that's the perfect trap to sell xp boost and sub, and it's much more work than reskinning horses and guars.

heystreethawk · February 2015

This might sound like sarcasm, but scout's honor, I believe that having to relearn the entire mechanical infrastructure of this game is "content" enough to hold me over until OrcVille comes out

Jando · February 2015

dwtdwtdwt wrote: »

This entire thread is a bunch of people getting upset about speculation.

You're worried and offended about something that is not necessarily going to happen. So, in actuality, you're worried and offended for no reason at all.

Learn to read. Almost everything posited by my initial post has been confirmed

It's clear from your post that you have no idea what you are talking about.

dwtdwtdwt wrote: »

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

being able to pickpocket/steal some mundane items or kill npc's (only to be swiftly destroyed by an indestructible guard) isn't particularly compelling without the Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood.

This may very well be the answer to all your problems. I can see this implemented prior to console release, hence new content prior to your June 9th deadline. Albeit, that would've been nice to have included in 1.6, along with the pickpocketing, but new content in less than 6months nonetheless. And there are ways to escape a guard. L2P.

dwtdwtdwt · February 2015

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

Learn to read. Almost everything posited by my initial post has been confirmed

I do know how to read. I also know how to spell and use spellcheck, with the proper punctuation.

I've concluded that you're worried and offended at the possibility of no new content until June 9th. Content that was said to be released every 4 to 6 weeks to give monthly subscribers a look at what their sub fee is paying for. But, there will not be anymore monthly subscription fee. So, I can see if the developers of the game choose to not make that 4 to 6 week mark anymore. We (the soon-to-be-defunct-subscribers) aren't paying for it. Since you're not paying for monthly updates anymore, do you still feel entitled to 4-week updates? If so, what warrants that?

Jando · February 2015

dwtdwtdwt wrote: »

Content that was said to be released every 4 to 6 weeks to give monthly subscribers a look at what their sub fee is paying for. But, there will not be anymore monthly subscription fee. So, I can see if the developers of the game choose to not make that 4 to 6 week mark anymore. We (the soon-to-be-defunct-subscribers) aren't paying for it. Since you're not paying for monthly updates anymore, do you still feel entitled to 4-week updates? If so, what warrants that?

Because they did not deliver content updates every 4-6 weeks as promised. Instead, they have decided to hold it back until after console release and then charge us again for it. We paid hundreds of dollars to beta test the game, and now they want to charge us for the new content.

But this thread is not about the money. It's about the delay, and lack of content.

Naivefanboi · February 2015

DDuke wrote: »

jjf42001_ESO wrote: »

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

ZoS: Will 1.7 be available on the PC before console launch or not. A simple yes or no will do. (Hint: I'm really hoping you say Yes.)

big ol nope a dope. 1.6 will be last update till after "console release dies down"
dev speak for when we damn well please lol

Read: when the console players playing "Skyrim with friends" finish leveling.

I'd expect no more updates until 2018.

lmao if servers are still up then. 2016 max

Gidorick · February 2015

jjf42001_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

jjf42001_ESO wrote: »

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

ZoS: Will 1.7 be available on the PC before console launch or not. A simple yes or no will do. (Hint: I'm really hoping you say Yes.)

big ol nope a dope. 1.6 will be last update till after "console release dies down"
dev speak for when we damn well please lol

Read: when the console players playing "Skyrim with friends" finish leveling.

I'd expect no more updates until 2018.

lmao if servers are still up then. 2016 max

Oh ESO is going to limp along for years and years to come.