Does this mean no new content for 6 months?? Yes, it does.

I_killed_Vivec

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Except by your own peculiar brand of logic, the only way they'll be earning money is if they continue to release new content. So why would they hold back on releasing that content?

The "only" way?

I never said that it was the only way, that is your peculiar brand of logic.

All new players will be B2P. Cash up front and no need to provide them with new content until they have done with what we already have.

And there's a shop (I imagine they know that people will shop, otherwise why bother?).

And there's the people who choose to sub, for whatever reason.

And there's the cut from Sony and Microsoft for bringing a game to their console networks...

So really ZoS have several ways of making money before they have to start releasing new content to get people to pay more .

It's just that there is no incentive for me (or any other current player) to give them anything until new content comes out.

Simple really

And why would they hold back? Again, quite simple. So that they have a headstart, so that they can keep all their new players happy with more regular drops. And probably so that they can squeeze more out of the console players - you know, the ones who aren't paying ZoS subs - with more frequent drops.

I imagine for a new player coming to the game for the first time at TU the experience will be quite different compared to the perspective of someone who has been in since beta...

Enodoc

starkerealm wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

So.... We can pretty much give up hope on ever seeing Akavir...

We were never going to see Akavir. ZOS pretty much confirmed that right back at the beginning; BGS do not want ZOS ruining the mystery of other continents.

starkerealm wrote: »

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

I read somewhere Wrothgar would be comming together with the F2P or console release so I assume 1.6 will be already out and Wrothgar is 1.7

I remember something about Wrothgar being tied to the Justice system, as a kind of criminal playground. But, that was at or after Quakecon.

Funny, I assumed Wrothgar was going to be the first paid DLC, and that Imperial City will be 1.7... I hope ZOS give a timeframe for some of these things in the Road Ahead next week.

No, they've said Wrothgar will be the first DLC pack. I'm guessing that means it's specifically designed to work as a "criminal playground." Which, honestly was kind of what they said back at Quakecon. Just, then, it was going to be free content for everyone.

I suspect, Wrothgar's going to be out with the Unlimited launch, or out day of the console launch. But, again, I don't know.

I'm confused -- you quoted me and said "no", but don't seem to have disagreed with what I said...
I said: I assumed Wrothgar was going to be the first paid DLC
You said: they've said Wrothgar will be the first DLC pack
That looks like a "yes" to me...

Being a criminal playground is possible, but the story of King Kurog and the Malacath worshippers should be the main focus of the zone.

starkerealm

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

It's just that there is no incentive for me (or any other current player) to give them anything until new content comes out.

Simple really

Loyalty rewards, the ability to continue playing before March 17th, and the increased XP, Gold, and other timers after... *shrugs*

Razzak

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

There is absolutely no reason to pay the sub after 1.6 comes out until they provide new content.

ZOS have promised ( ) that the shop will only sell baubles and fripperies, so there's no need to have crowns. Just play 1.6, and gain those CP grinding in Craglorn, for free.

New content will come out - they've already developed the content we were promised but was withheld until it went pay to play - but we don't know how much or how regularly, so again it doesn't make sense to permanently sub.

As for when it comes out, well either they stagger PC and console releases (so we can test for them) or PC releases will be delayed until console players need new content, which won't be for a while...

Either way I think it might be a while before we get anything new after 1.6.

And as for 1.7 and the removal of VR... well, don't hold your breath.

Except by your own peculiar brand of logic, the only way they'll be earning money is if they continue to release new content. So why would they hold back on releasing that content?

Cash shop is their main future money making machine. New content is mainly for PR, so they don't lose as many players as they would if they didn't make any.
Except those DLCs that will be coming this year. That was already paid by us.

nerevarine1138

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

There is absolutely no reason to pay the sub after 1.6 comes out until they provide new content.

ZOS have promised ( ) that the shop will only sell baubles and fripperies, so there's no need to have crowns. Just play 1.6, and gain those CP grinding in Craglorn, for free.

New content will come out - they've already developed the content we were promised but was withheld until it went pay to play - but we don't know how much or how regularly, so again it doesn't make sense to permanently sub.

As for when it comes out, well either they stagger PC and console releases (so we can test for them) or PC releases will be delayed until console players need new content, which won't be for a while...

Either way I think it might be a while before we get anything new after 1.6.

And as for 1.7 and the removal of VR... well, don't hold your breath.

Except by your own peculiar brand of logic, the only way they'll be earning money is if they continue to release new content. So why would they hold back on releasing that content?

Cash shop is their main future money making machine. New content is mainly for PR, so they don't lose as many players as they would if they didn't make any.
Except those DLCs that will be coming this year. That was already paid by us.

I'm not sure how you guys work out these financials.

If upcoming content isn't in the game already, your subscription for the past year doesn't entitle you to that content. The same way that if they stayed on the subscription system and you cancelled, you wouldn't be entitled to the new content.

Your sub pays for the months you got it for. That's it. I'm completely bemused by this constant insistence that your money was somehow funneled into secret accounts for secret DLC that you would have totally gotten for "free" later.

starkerealm

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Your sub pays for the months you got it for. That's it. I'm completely bemused by this constant insistence that your money was somehow funneled into secret accounts for secret DLC that you would have totally gotten for "free" later.

To be fair, I have actually seen other developers pull this in the past. Cryptic had one of the featured episode series basically good to go for something like ten months, before finally turning it out as part of their F2P transition.

I honestly don't believe that's the case here, though.

Razzak

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

There is absolutely no reason to pay the sub after 1.6 comes out until they provide new content.

ZOS have promised ( ) that the shop will only sell baubles and fripperies, so there's no need to have crowns. Just play 1.6, and gain those CP grinding in Craglorn, for free.

New content will come out - they've already developed the content we were promised but was withheld until it went pay to play - but we don't know how much or how regularly, so again it doesn't make sense to permanently sub.

As for when it comes out, well either they stagger PC and console releases (so we can test for them) or PC releases will be delayed until console players need new content, which won't be for a while...

Either way I think it might be a while before we get anything new after 1.6.

And as for 1.7 and the removal of VR... well, don't hold your breath.

Except by your own peculiar brand of logic, the only way they'll be earning money is if they continue to release new content. So why would they hold back on releasing that content?

Cash shop is their main future money making machine. New content is mainly for PR, so they don't lose as many players as they would if they didn't make any.
Except those DLCs that will be coming this year. That was already paid by us.

I'm not sure how you guys work out these financials.

If upcoming content isn't in the game already, your subscription for the past year doesn't entitle you to that content. The same way that if they stayed on the subscription system and you cancelled, you wouldn't be entitled to the new content.

Your sub pays for the months you got it for. That's it. I'm completely bemused by this constant insistence that your money was somehow funneled into secret accounts for secret DLC that you would have totally gotten for "free" later.

Who was talking about secret accounts? You do know this is not some "Da Vinci code", right? There's nothing secret about it. If ESO was not going B2P, 1.6 would already be out, because their entire team would be working on a sub based ESO and not on cash shop and cash shop items while we were under the impression they are trying their hardest to give us new content in 4-6 weeks stages. They kept quiet simply because they didn't want to lose those months of subs.
Looks like we are both bemused. It's just that I am bemused with the fact that you are so short sighted. But, to be fair, it's your right, so ... hidey ***, silver ... and everything else that goes along with your fairytales.

nerevarine1138

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

There is absolutely no reason to pay the sub after 1.6 comes out until they provide new content.

ZOS have promised ( ) that the shop will only sell baubles and fripperies, so there's no need to have crowns. Just play 1.6, and gain those CP grinding in Craglorn, for free.

New content will come out - they've already developed the content we were promised but was withheld until it went pay to play - but we don't know how much or how regularly, so again it doesn't make sense to permanently sub.

As for when it comes out, well either they stagger PC and console releases (so we can test for them) or PC releases will be delayed until console players need new content, which won't be for a while...

Either way I think it might be a while before we get anything new after 1.6.

And as for 1.7 and the removal of VR... well, don't hold your breath.

Except by your own peculiar brand of logic, the only way they'll be earning money is if they continue to release new content. So why would they hold back on releasing that content?

Cash shop is their main future money making machine. New content is mainly for PR, so they don't lose as many players as they would if they didn't make any.
Except those DLCs that will be coming this year. That was already paid by us.

I'm not sure how you guys work out these financials.

If upcoming content isn't in the game already, your subscription for the past year doesn't entitle you to that content. The same way that if they stayed on the subscription system and you cancelled, you wouldn't be entitled to the new content.

Your sub pays for the months you got it for. That's it. I'm completely bemused by this constant insistence that your money was somehow funneled into secret accounts for secret DLC that you would have totally gotten for "free" later.

Who was talking about secret accounts? You do know this is not some "Da Vinci code", right? There's nothing secret about it. If ESO was not going B2P, 1.6 would already be out, because their entire team would be working on a sub based ESO and not on cash shop and cash shop items while we were under the impression they are trying their hardest to give us new content in 4-6 weeks stages. They kept quiet simply because they didn't want to lose those months of subs.
Looks like we are both bemused. It's just that I am bemused with the fact that you are so short sighted. But, to be fair, it's your right, so ... hidey ***, silver ... and everything else that goes along with your fairytales.

And you have proof that the timeline for 1.6 (something completely unrelated to the payment model change) would have been different?

Of course not. Evidence is so pesky, isn't it?

Razzak

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

There is absolutely no reason to pay the sub after 1.6 comes out until they provide new content.

ZOS have promised ( ) that the shop will only sell baubles and fripperies, so there's no need to have crowns. Just play 1.6, and gain those CP grinding in Craglorn, for free.

New content will come out - they've already developed the content we were promised but was withheld until it went pay to play - but we don't know how much or how regularly, so again it doesn't make sense to permanently sub.

As for when it comes out, well either they stagger PC and console releases (so we can test for them) or PC releases will be delayed until console players need new content, which won't be for a while...

Either way I think it might be a while before we get anything new after 1.6.

And as for 1.7 and the removal of VR... well, don't hold your breath.

Except by your own peculiar brand of logic, the only way they'll be earning money is if they continue to release new content. So why would they hold back on releasing that content?

Cash shop is their main future money making machine. New content is mainly for PR, so they don't lose as many players as they would if they didn't make any.
Except those DLCs that will be coming this year. That was already paid by us.

I'm not sure how you guys work out these financials.

If upcoming content isn't in the game already, your subscription for the past year doesn't entitle you to that content. The same way that if they stayed on the subscription system and you cancelled, you wouldn't be entitled to the new content.

Your sub pays for the months you got it for. That's it. I'm completely bemused by this constant insistence that your money was somehow funneled into secret accounts for secret DLC that you would have totally gotten for "free" later.

Who was talking about secret accounts? You do know this is not some "Da Vinci code", right? There's nothing secret about it. If ESO was not going B2P, 1.6 would already be out, because their entire team would be working on a sub based ESO and not on cash shop and cash shop items while we were under the impression they are trying their hardest to give us new content in 4-6 weeks stages. They kept quiet simply because they didn't want to lose those months of subs.
Looks like we are both bemused. It's just that I am bemused with the fact that you are so short sighted. But, to be fair, it's your right, so ... hidey ***, silver ... and everything else that goes along with your fairytales.

And you have proof that the timeline for 1.6 (something completely unrelated to the payment model change) would have been different?

Of course not. Evidence is so pesky, isn't it?

One team of let's say 50 devs. In one case they ALL work on new content and they need 2, 3 months of work to do it. In another case, many of those 50 work on cash shop and it's items. Do you really believe what's left of those 50 will be able to achieve the same amount of work as original 50 devs?

nerevarine1138

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

There is absolutely no reason to pay the sub after 1.6 comes out until they provide new content.

ZOS have promised ( ) that the shop will only sell baubles and fripperies, so there's no need to have crowns. Just play 1.6, and gain those CP grinding in Craglorn, for free.

New content will come out - they've already developed the content we were promised but was withheld until it went pay to play - but we don't know how much or how regularly, so again it doesn't make sense to permanently sub.

As for when it comes out, well either they stagger PC and console releases (so we can test for them) or PC releases will be delayed until console players need new content, which won't be for a while...

Either way I think it might be a while before we get anything new after 1.6.

And as for 1.7 and the removal of VR... well, don't hold your breath.

Except by your own peculiar brand of logic, the only way they'll be earning money is if they continue to release new content. So why would they hold back on releasing that content?

Cash shop is their main future money making machine. New content is mainly for PR, so they don't lose as many players as they would if they didn't make any.
Except those DLCs that will be coming this year. That was already paid by us.

I'm not sure how you guys work out these financials.

If upcoming content isn't in the game already, your subscription for the past year doesn't entitle you to that content. The same way that if they stayed on the subscription system and you cancelled, you wouldn't be entitled to the new content.

Your sub pays for the months you got it for. That's it. I'm completely bemused by this constant insistence that your money was somehow funneled into secret accounts for secret DLC that you would have totally gotten for "free" later.

Who was talking about secret accounts? You do know this is not some "Da Vinci code", right? There's nothing secret about it. If ESO was not going B2P, 1.6 would already be out, because their entire team would be working on a sub based ESO and not on cash shop and cash shop items while we were under the impression they are trying their hardest to give us new content in 4-6 weeks stages. They kept quiet simply because they didn't want to lose those months of subs.
Looks like we are both bemused. It's just that I am bemused with the fact that you are so short sighted. But, to be fair, it's your right, so ... hidey ***, silver ... and everything else that goes along with your fairytales.

And you have proof that the timeline for 1.6 (something completely unrelated to the payment model change) would have been different?

Of course not. Evidence is so pesky, isn't it?

One team of let's say 50 devs. In one case they ALL work on new content and they need 2, 3 months of work to do it. In another case, many of those 50 work on cash shop and it's items. Do you really believe what's left of those 50 will be able to achieve the same amount of work as original 50 devs?

They aren't the same teams.

Presto! I've made 1.6 come out on the same timetable, regardless of how the payment model changes!

starkerealm

Razzak wrote: »

One team of let's say 50 devs. In one case they ALL work on new content and they need 2, 3 months of work to do it. In another case, many of those 50 work on cash shop and it's items. Do you really believe what's left of those 50 will be able to achieve the same amount of work as original 50 devs?

That's not how development teams work. Or, "You can't make a baby in a month by impregnating nine women."

Khami

BlueIllyrian wrote: »

Try a year, while I like say SWTOR's model (gimped F2P forcing you to sub) cash shop definitely slowed down new content.

Developer resources are limited and no, they won't hire a new team for cash shop, they'll reshuffle what they have, fire some, hire others to keep expenses same or lower.

As you are aware, SW:TOR releases new skins for new packs weekly to bi-weekly and playable content might be once per quarter.

That game launched Dec 2011. First expansion to raise the cap level was April 2013, cost was $20, but $10 for sub who pre-ordered it. And went free to subscribers by the end of the 2013. The next was this past December and it move the cap to 60, also $20. While adding new daily zones with new dungeons, raids, and different styles of PvP in between each paid expansion.

ESO has already moved the cap twice since launch. I'm curious on how big the DLC will be? Will it be just one dungeon like Update 2 or Update 5. Or an entire new zone, not a zone cut into 1/3s like Craglorn. Lower is 2/3 of the zone with Upper being the other 1/3.

Razzak

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

There is absolutely no reason to pay the sub after 1.6 comes out until they provide new content.

ZOS have promised ( ) that the shop will only sell baubles and fripperies, so there's no need to have crowns. Just play 1.6, and gain those CP grinding in Craglorn, for free.

New content will come out - they've already developed the content we were promised but was withheld until it went pay to play - but we don't know how much or how regularly, so again it doesn't make sense to permanently sub.

As for when it comes out, well either they stagger PC and console releases (so we can test for them) or PC releases will be delayed until console players need new content, which won't be for a while...

Either way I think it might be a while before we get anything new after 1.6.

And as for 1.7 and the removal of VR... well, don't hold your breath.

Except by your own peculiar brand of logic, the only way they'll be earning money is if they continue to release new content. So why would they hold back on releasing that content?

Cash shop is their main future money making machine. New content is mainly for PR, so they don't lose as many players as they would if they didn't make any.
Except those DLCs that will be coming this year. That was already paid by us.

I'm not sure how you guys work out these financials.

If upcoming content isn't in the game already, your subscription for the past year doesn't entitle you to that content. The same way that if they stayed on the subscription system and you cancelled, you wouldn't be entitled to the new content.

Your sub pays for the months you got it for. That's it. I'm completely bemused by this constant insistence that your money was somehow funneled into secret accounts for secret DLC that you would have totally gotten for "free" later.

Who was talking about secret accounts? You do know this is not some "Da Vinci code", right? There's nothing secret about it. If ESO was not going B2P, 1.6 would already be out, because their entire team would be working on a sub based ESO and not on cash shop and cash shop items while we were under the impression they are trying their hardest to give us new content in 4-6 weeks stages. They kept quiet simply because they didn't want to lose those months of subs.
Looks like we are both bemused. It's just that I am bemused with the fact that you are so short sighted. But, to be fair, it's your right, so ... hidey ***, silver ... and everything else that goes along with your fairytales.

And you have proof that the timeline for 1.6 (something completely unrelated to the payment model change) would have been different?

Of course not. Evidence is so pesky, isn't it?

One team of let's say 50 devs. In one case they ALL work on new content and they need 2, 3 months of work to do it. In another case, many of those 50 work on cash shop and it's items. Do you really believe what's left of those 50 will be able to achieve the same amount of work as original 50 devs?

They aren't the same teams.

Presto! I've made 1.6 come out on the same timetable, regardless of how the payment model changes!

You didn't really read what I wrote, did you?

starkerealm wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

One team of let's say 50 devs. In one case they ALL work on new content and they need 2, 3 months of work to do it. In another case, many of those 50 work on cash shop and it's items. Do you really believe what's left of those 50 will be able to achieve the same amount of work as original 50 devs?

That's not how development teams work. Or, "You can't make a baby in a month by impregnating nine women."

It was a very simplified example. But, since you understand more of development (not to say anything about conception) let me ask you this. What would those devs that were working on cash shop and it's items, work on otherwise? If ESO was not going to go B2P? I don't know exactly, as Nere pointed out, you don't know exactly, but since we are all just guessing ...

nerevarine1138

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

There is absolutely no reason to pay the sub after 1.6 comes out until they provide new content.

ZOS have promised ( ) that the shop will only sell baubles and fripperies, so there's no need to have crowns. Just play 1.6, and gain those CP grinding in Craglorn, for free.

New content will come out - they've already developed the content we were promised but was withheld until it went pay to play - but we don't know how much or how regularly, so again it doesn't make sense to permanently sub.

As for when it comes out, well either they stagger PC and console releases (so we can test for them) or PC releases will be delayed until console players need new content, which won't be for a while...

Either way I think it might be a while before we get anything new after 1.6.

And as for 1.7 and the removal of VR... well, don't hold your breath.

Except by your own peculiar brand of logic, the only way they'll be earning money is if they continue to release new content. So why would they hold back on releasing that content?

Cash shop is their main future money making machine. New content is mainly for PR, so they don't lose as many players as they would if they didn't make any.
Except those DLCs that will be coming this year. That was already paid by us.

I'm not sure how you guys work out these financials.

If upcoming content isn't in the game already, your subscription for the past year doesn't entitle you to that content. The same way that if they stayed on the subscription system and you cancelled, you wouldn't be entitled to the new content.

Your sub pays for the months you got it for. That's it. I'm completely bemused by this constant insistence that your money was somehow funneled into secret accounts for secret DLC that you would have totally gotten for "free" later.

Who was talking about secret accounts? You do know this is not some "Da Vinci code", right? There's nothing secret about it. If ESO was not going B2P, 1.6 would already be out, because their entire team would be working on a sub based ESO and not on cash shop and cash shop items while we were under the impression they are trying their hardest to give us new content in 4-6 weeks stages. They kept quiet simply because they didn't want to lose those months of subs.
Looks like we are both bemused. It's just that I am bemused with the fact that you are so short sighted. But, to be fair, it's your right, so ... hidey ***, silver ... and everything else that goes along with your fairytales.

And you have proof that the timeline for 1.6 (something completely unrelated to the payment model change) would have been different?

Of course not. Evidence is so pesky, isn't it?

One team of let's say 50 devs. In one case they ALL work on new content and they need 2, 3 months of work to do it. In another case, many of those 50 work on cash shop and it's items. Do you really believe what's left of those 50 will be able to achieve the same amount of work as original 50 devs?

They aren't the same teams.

Presto! I've made 1.6 come out on the same timetable, regardless of how the payment model changes!

You didn't really read what I wrote, did you?

starkerealm wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

One team of let's say 50 devs. In one case they ALL work on new content and they need 2, 3 months of work to do it. In another case, many of those 50 work on cash shop and it's items. Do you really believe what's left of those 50 will be able to achieve the same amount of work as original 50 devs?

That's not how development teams work. Or, "You can't make a baby in a month by impregnating nine women."

It was a very simplified example. But, since you understand more of development (not to say anything about conception) let me ask you this. What would those devs that were working on cash shop and it's items, work on otherwise? If ESO was not going to go B2P? I don't know exactly, as Nere pointed out, you don't know exactly, but since we are all just guessing ...

It's not like a cash shop takes a lot of effort.

And you're right about one thing: you're guessing. So stop dressing your guesses up as truth.

Goresnort

Hmm, speculating and looking at this from a practical standpoint.

We are now at the end of january.

That means we are less then 5 months away from the june 9th console release.

That timeframe is rather short considering all the stuff ZOS has on their plate before popping out the console version.

- Continued development of console version of the game.
- Deploy a massive patch to PTS (1.6)
- Fix bugs and adress issues with 1.6 on PTS
- Deploy 1.6 to Live
- Fix a ton of bugs for 1.6 on Live
- Implement Champion system phase 4, removal of vet ranks.(1.7?, 1.8?)
- Implement Justice system phase 2, pvp elements. (1.7?, 1.8?)
- Deploy the console Beta
- Bugfix stuff popping up under console Beta.
- Launch the console Version.

That is a heck of a lot of stuff to do in that timeframe.

Not to mention all the stuff their tech teams and engineers/programmers will waffle about with setting up the servers for XBOX and PS4.

How many worker drones are buzzing around in the ZOS hive atm? 200? Dunno.

If ZOS managed to out more new content at the same time as doing all of that, then hats off to ZOS.

Looking at that list, it is likely we will see implementation of Justice system phase 2 pushed out until after console release.

Just hoping ZOS manages to find the time to get the removal of vet ranks done before console release.
That in itself is a rather huge system overhaul that will require alot of balancing throughout large parts of the game.
Have they even decided on how to handle VR rank removal yet? Or did they need to go back to the drawing board? Hope the plan and process is in place.
If the VR ranks are still in at console release, I guess the console horde's reaction to the VR grind will be the same as many PC players have voiced.

So Yeah, Ill be impressed if ZOS manages to get the above items done, let alone actual new content, before we hit console release.

On the other hand, it could be ZOS have simoultainously progressed quite far on several of the non console spesific items listed above. And will rapidly move to deploying 1-2 more updates before console launch.

Who knows.
ZOS has a development timeframe and ambition to fuel it. Unexpected Development bumps will happen along the way tho.

I'm looking at my Magic 8-ball atm, and is displaying a big fat "?"

Supposedly 20 mill copies of Skyrim sold. 86% of that was again supposedly on consoles.

Im not saying ESO will sell aswell as Skyrim on console, but atleast the above numbers indicate that there is some potential market available, and that market is possibly larger then the PC market.

If the console Version launches decently, that could possibly mean quite good future revenue for ZOS. That would again mean good things for future (after console launch) content development for all platforms (PC/XBOX/PS4).

Looking at this from a long term standpoint, as a PC player, my biggest wish atm is a good console launch. Strange as that could sound

Anyways, that was just me speculating wildly

Have a good weekend folks!

Razzak

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

There is absolutely no reason to pay the sub after 1.6 comes out until they provide new content.

ZOS have promised ( ) that the shop will only sell baubles and fripperies, so there's no need to have crowns. Just play 1.6, and gain those CP grinding in Craglorn, for free.

New content will come out - they've already developed the content we were promised but was withheld until it went pay to play - but we don't know how much or how regularly, so again it doesn't make sense to permanently sub.

As for when it comes out, well either they stagger PC and console releases (so we can test for them) or PC releases will be delayed until console players need new content, which won't be for a while...

Either way I think it might be a while before we get anything new after 1.6.

And as for 1.7 and the removal of VR... well, don't hold your breath.

Except by your own peculiar brand of logic, the only way they'll be earning money is if they continue to release new content. So why would they hold back on releasing that content?

Cash shop is their main future money making machine. New content is mainly for PR, so they don't lose as many players as they would if they didn't make any.
Except those DLCs that will be coming this year. That was already paid by us.

I'm not sure how you guys work out these financials.

If upcoming content isn't in the game already, your subscription for the past year doesn't entitle you to that content. The same way that if they stayed on the subscription system and you cancelled, you wouldn't be entitled to the new content.

Your sub pays for the months you got it for. That's it. I'm completely bemused by this constant insistence that your money was somehow funneled into secret accounts for secret DLC that you would have totally gotten for "free" later.

Who was talking about secret accounts? You do know this is not some "Da Vinci code", right? There's nothing secret about it. If ESO was not going B2P, 1.6 would already be out, because their entire team would be working on a sub based ESO and not on cash shop and cash shop items while we were under the impression they are trying their hardest to give us new content in 4-6 weeks stages. They kept quiet simply because they didn't want to lose those months of subs.
Looks like we are both bemused. It's just that I am bemused with the fact that you are so short sighted. But, to be fair, it's your right, so ... hidey ***, silver ... and everything else that goes along with your fairytales.

And you have proof that the timeline for 1.6 (something completely unrelated to the payment model change) would have been different?

Of course not. Evidence is so pesky, isn't it?

One team of let's say 50 devs. In one case they ALL work on new content and they need 2, 3 months of work to do it. In another case, many of those 50 work on cash shop and it's items. Do you really believe what's left of those 50 will be able to achieve the same amount of work as original 50 devs?

They aren't the same teams.

Presto! I've made 1.6 come out on the same timetable, regardless of how the payment model changes!

You didn't really read what I wrote, did you?

starkerealm wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

One team of let's say 50 devs. In one case they ALL work on new content and they need 2, 3 months of work to do it. In another case, many of those 50 work on cash shop and it's items. Do you really believe what's left of those 50 will be able to achieve the same amount of work as original 50 devs?

That's not how development teams work. Or, "You can't make a baby in a month by impregnating nine women."

It was a very simplified example. But, since you understand more of development (not to say anything about conception) let me ask you this. What would those devs that were working on cash shop and it's items, work on otherwise? If ESO was not going to go B2P? I don't know exactly, as Nere pointed out, you don't know exactly, but since we are all just guessing ...

It's not like a cash shop takes a lot of effort.

And you're right about one thing: you're guessing. So stop dressing your guesses up as truth.

Of course not. They've done it while taking a dump in their free time.

Edit: Ups, another guess, I guess.

spryler

I see both sides to this situation, but I am leaning to the side that we have been ripped off.

It's basically a Bait and Switch. We were sold a subscription that allows us to play the game now and allows the company to develop new content. I understand that the terms of usage state that the play experience can change at any time.

The main point in my mind is INTENT. If ZOS is holding back content because it's just not ready yet, then that is fine. I have no problem with that scenario. If ZOS is holding back content THAT IS READY in order to sell it to us later, then that is the Switch part of the Bait and Switch.

The content that is READY right now is what we subs have paid for and will be repaying for later. If the content isn't ready and they're just being slow, then that's business as usual.

My 2 cents.

Jando

Assuming that there will be no significant content updates until console DLC is available in June, at the absolute earliest; unfortunately, it's fair to say that ZoS absolutely did not deliver on their promise to push out "DLC sized" content updates on a regular 4-6 week schedule.

Messorem

unlord116 wrote: »

this is exactly how i feel. paying twice for the development of some of the stuff they showed us. The main reason i stayed sub was looking forward to Imperial City. Thats what got them my 15bucks a month, if they come out with it and i have to buy it again as DLC ill feel kinda ripped off. The sub we already paid is supposed to be used for future content. why would i pay someone to make something so they can sell it to me again at the same price as someone that didn't pay them to make it.

How is that any different from say, buying oblivion right when it came out, that money then paid to develop skyrim, which you also buy right when it comes out, except people who didn't play oblivion also buy skyrim for the same price you do. You wouldn't expect a different price then, so what's really the difference. Yeah, what they did wasn't the greatest, but its there choice. And it was pretty obviously going to happen from the start.

Bouvin

From Matt Frior on today's reddit AMA.

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2tfb48/welcome_to_the_eso_tamriel_unlimited_aua/cnym1sh

We are not going to keep up our 2014 pace of updates in 2015 - and our future update pace will focus more on new adventures and game experiences than system changes. It's time to let the game breathe a little - we've done so many new features so quickly that we want to make sure everyone is on the same page with us. 1.6 alone has a complete rebalancing of most player abilities - we don't want to do that again, for example. Our #1 priority right now is getting Tamriel Unlimited launched on PC, and then focusing on a successful console launch. While we do those things, we have other teams already working on DLC and expect to see that start rolling out at some point after console launch settles down.

..1.6 is going to be the last major update before console launch, for obvious reasons. We will continue to do interim updates as necessary. As Paul said in another thread on this AMA, we're now developing for 4 platforms at once, and it is inherently more complex. We're committed to having content hit all the platforms at roughly the same time, so it will necessarily slow things down a bit.

Gorthax

Bouvin wrote: »

From Matt Frior on today's reddit AMA.

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2tfb48/welcome_to_the_eso_tamriel_unlimited_aua/cnym1sh

We are not going to keep up our 2014 pace of updates in 2015 - and our future update pace will focus more on new adventures and game experiences than system changes. It's time to let the game breathe a little - we've done so many new features so quickly that we want to make sure everyone is on the same page with us. 1.6 alone has a complete rebalancing of most player abilities - we don't want to do that again, for example. Our #1 priority right now is getting Tamriel Unlimited launched on PC, and then focusing on a successful console launch. While we do those things, we have other teams already working on DLC and expect to see that start rolling out at some point after console launch settles down.

..1.6 is going to be the last major update before console launch, for obvious reasons. We will continue to do interim updates as necessary. As Paul said in another thread on this AMA, we're now developing for 4 platforms at once, and it is inherently more complex. We're committed to having content hit all the platforms at roughly the same time, so it will necessarily slow things down a bit.

sure seems like we wont see the last phase of CS before console launch nor will we see pvp justice system entered. Console wins again
EDIT: *spelling*

Slurg

Unless they consider finishing their unfinished systems to be later phases of 1.6. Which would make sense.

Ourorboros

Well OP, your thread has been answered, and you called it. We get 1.6 and then nothing until at least June. The Justice system will be okay, but I really have been anticipating Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood. In light of reddit post, those could be another year away. Not happy with ZOS right now.

Jando

Bouvin wrote: »

From Matt Frior on today's reddit AMA.

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2tfb48/welcome_to_the_eso_tamriel_unlimited_aua/cnym1sh

We are not going to keep up our 2014 pace of updates in 2015 - and our future update pace will focus more on new adventures and game experiences than system changes. It's time to let the game breathe a little - we've done so many new features so quickly that we want to make sure everyone is on the same page with us. 1.6 alone has a complete rebalancing of most player abilities - we don't want to do that again, for example. Our #1 priority right now is getting Tamriel Unlimited launched on PC, and then focusing on a successful console launch. While we do those things, we have other teams already working on DLC and expect to see that start rolling out at some point after console launch settles down.

..1.6 is going to be the last major update before console launch, for obvious reasons. We will continue to do interim updates as necessary. As Paul said in another thread on this AMA, we're now developing for 4 platforms at once, and it is inherently more complex. We're committed to having content hit all the platforms at roughly the same time, so it will necessarily slow things down a bit.

There's our answer! Thanks, Bouvin!!

Bouvin

Ourorboros wrote: »

Well OP, your thread has been answered, and you called it. We get 1.6 and then nothing until at least June. The Justice system will be okay, but I really have been anticipating Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood. In light of reddit post, those could be another year away. Not happy with ZOS right now.

Don't worry. They are going to make up with it by giving you 1200 Crowns to spend in the cash shop for your loyal subscription this past year.

You can probably buy a Chef Outfit and couple of XP boosters with that.

Unfortunately, if you want a new Guar mount you're going to have to fork out another $30, because those will cost 4,500 crowns.

HippieTheGreat

Well...disappointed again. Sigh, hopefully they will do something for the 1year anniversary.

Razzak

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

There is absolutely no reason to pay the sub after 1.6 comes out until they provide new content.

ZOS have promised ( ) that the shop will only sell baubles and fripperies, so there's no need to have crowns. Just play 1.6, and gain those CP grinding in Craglorn, for free.

New content will come out - they've already developed the content we were promised but was withheld until it went pay to play - but we don't know how much or how regularly, so again it doesn't make sense to permanently sub.

As for when it comes out, well either they stagger PC and console releases (so we can test for them) or PC releases will be delayed until console players need new content, which won't be for a while...

Either way I think it might be a while before we get anything new after 1.6.

And as for 1.7 and the removal of VR... well, don't hold your breath.

Except by your own peculiar brand of logic, the only way they'll be earning money is if they continue to release new content. So why would they hold back on releasing that content?

Cash shop is their main future money making machine. New content is mainly for PR, so they don't lose as many players as they would if they didn't make any.
Except those DLCs that will be coming this year. That was already paid by us.

I'm not sure how you guys work out these financials.

If upcoming content isn't in the game already, your subscription for the past year doesn't entitle you to that content. The same way that if they stayed on the subscription system and you cancelled, you wouldn't be entitled to the new content.

Your sub pays for the months you got it for. That's it. I'm completely bemused by this constant insistence that your money was somehow funneled into secret accounts for secret DLC that you would have totally gotten for "free" later.

Who was talking about secret accounts? You do know this is not some "Da Vinci code", right? There's nothing secret about it. If ESO was not going B2P, 1.6 would already be out, because their entire team would be working on a sub based ESO and not on cash shop and cash shop items while we were under the impression they are trying their hardest to give us new content in 4-6 weeks stages. They kept quiet simply because they didn't want to lose those months of subs.
Looks like we are both bemused. It's just that I am bemused with the fact that you are so short sighted. But, to be fair, it's your right, so ... hidey ***, silver ... and everything else that goes along with your fairytales.

And you have proof that the timeline for 1.6 (something completely unrelated to the payment model change) would have been different?

Of course not. Evidence is so pesky, isn't it?

One team of let's say 50 devs. In one case they ALL work on new content and they need 2, 3 months of work to do it. In another case, many of those 50 work on cash shop and it's items. Do you really believe what's left of those 50 will be able to achieve the same amount of work as original 50 devs?

They aren't the same teams.

Presto! I've made 1.6 come out on the same timetable, regardless of how the payment model changes!

You didn't really read what I wrote, did you?

starkerealm wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

One team of let's say 50 devs. In one case they ALL work on new content and they need 2, 3 months of work to do it. In another case, many of those 50 work on cash shop and it's items. Do you really believe what's left of those 50 will be able to achieve the same amount of work as original 50 devs?

That's not how development teams work. Or, "You can't make a baby in a month by impregnating nine women."

It was a very simplified example. But, since you understand more of development (not to say anything about conception) let me ask you this. What would those devs that were working on cash shop and it's items, work on otherwise? If ESO was not going to go B2P? I don't know exactly, as Nere pointed out, you don't know exactly, but since we are all just guessing ...

It's not like a cash shop takes a lot of effort.

And you're right about one thing: you're guessing. So stop dressing your guesses up as truth.

"We are not going to keep up our 2014 pace of updates in 2015 - and our future update pace will focus more on new adventures and game experiences than system changes. It's time to let the game breathe a little - we've done so many new features so quickly that we want to make sure everyone is on the same page with us. 1.6 alone has a complete rebalancing of most player abilities - we don't want to do that again, for example. Our #1 priority right now is getting Tamriel Unlimited launched on PC, and then focusing on a successful console launch. While we do those things, we have other teams already working on DLC and expect to see that start rolling out at some point after console launch settles down."

Guessing, ha?

nerevarine1138

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

There is absolutely no reason to pay the sub after 1.6 comes out until they provide new content.

ZOS have promised ( ) that the shop will only sell baubles and fripperies, so there's no need to have crowns. Just play 1.6, and gain those CP grinding in Craglorn, for free.

New content will come out - they've already developed the content we were promised but was withheld until it went pay to play - but we don't know how much or how regularly, so again it doesn't make sense to permanently sub.

As for when it comes out, well either they stagger PC and console releases (so we can test for them) or PC releases will be delayed until console players need new content, which won't be for a while...

Either way I think it might be a while before we get anything new after 1.6.

And as for 1.7 and the removal of VR... well, don't hold your breath.

Except by your own peculiar brand of logic, the only way they'll be earning money is if they continue to release new content. So why would they hold back on releasing that content?

Cash shop is their main future money making machine. New content is mainly for PR, so they don't lose as many players as they would if they didn't make any.
Except those DLCs that will be coming this year. That was already paid by us.

I'm not sure how you guys work out these financials.

If upcoming content isn't in the game already, your subscription for the past year doesn't entitle you to that content. The same way that if they stayed on the subscription system and you cancelled, you wouldn't be entitled to the new content.

Your sub pays for the months you got it for. That's it. I'm completely bemused by this constant insistence that your money was somehow funneled into secret accounts for secret DLC that you would have totally gotten for "free" later.

Who was talking about secret accounts? You do know this is not some "Da Vinci code", right? There's nothing secret about it. If ESO was not going B2P, 1.6 would already be out, because their entire team would be working on a sub based ESO and not on cash shop and cash shop items while we were under the impression they are trying their hardest to give us new content in 4-6 weeks stages. They kept quiet simply because they didn't want to lose those months of subs.
Looks like we are both bemused. It's just that I am bemused with the fact that you are so short sighted. But, to be fair, it's your right, so ... hidey ***, silver ... and everything else that goes along with your fairytales.

And you have proof that the timeline for 1.6 (something completely unrelated to the payment model change) would have been different?

Of course not. Evidence is so pesky, isn't it?

One team of let's say 50 devs. In one case they ALL work on new content and they need 2, 3 months of work to do it. In another case, many of those 50 work on cash shop and it's items. Do you really believe what's left of those 50 will be able to achieve the same amount of work as original 50 devs?

They aren't the same teams.

Presto! I've made 1.6 come out on the same timetable, regardless of how the payment model changes!

You didn't really read what I wrote, did you?

starkerealm wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

One team of let's say 50 devs. In one case they ALL work on new content and they need 2, 3 months of work to do it. In another case, many of those 50 work on cash shop and it's items. Do you really believe what's left of those 50 will be able to achieve the same amount of work as original 50 devs?

That's not how development teams work. Or, "You can't make a baby in a month by impregnating nine women."

It was a very simplified example. But, since you understand more of development (not to say anything about conception) let me ask you this. What would those devs that were working on cash shop and it's items, work on otherwise? If ESO was not going to go B2P? I don't know exactly, as Nere pointed out, you don't know exactly, but since we are all just guessing ...

It's not like a cash shop takes a lot of effort.

And you're right about one thing: you're guessing. So stop dressing your guesses up as truth.

"We are not going to keep up our 2014 pace of updates in 2015 - and our future update pace will focus more on new adventures and game experiences than system changes. It's time to let the game breathe a little - we've done so many new features so quickly that we want to make sure everyone is on the same page with us. 1.6 alone has a complete rebalancing of most player abilities - we don't want to do that again, for example. Our #1 priority right now is getting Tamriel Unlimited launched on PC, and then focusing on a successful console launch. While we do those things, we have other teams already working on DLC and expect to see that start rolling out at some point after console launch settles down."

Guessing, ha?

Actually, you're just wrong now.

That quote shows that the development team is slowing down for reasons completely unrelated to the cash shop. Ironically, many people on these boards were demanding a slowdown on updates ("until they can do them right") until now.

OrangeTheCat

Does this mean that ZOS has basically given up on this game and the plan is just to milk the cash store and the only effort they will put in is to add a costume or whatever once in a while to the cash store?

Korah_Eaglecry

Its not like this sort of direction wasnt hinted at when the announcement was made that they intended to release the game to Console. There was plenty back then who speculated the only way they were going to make it work with MS and Sony was a B2P/F2P model.

Now that it has come to happen. Its nothing but the sky is falling and DOOOMMMM.

I really cant wait for March 17th. Or atleast sometime mid next month. Because those who are truely bothered with this will be out of here. And maybe just maybe the forum fires will subside.