Please Remove Veteran Ranks Entirely

grimjim398 · September 2014

I have not read anywhere that the Champion system means getting rid of Cadwell's silver and gold quests. They are fine with me. I like the contrast of doing them at Veteran level as compared with the first time through. I have 7 alts rolled so far. Repeating the quests is relaxing, a different experience from playing them the first time.

Horrum · September 2014

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

Getting to 50 is easy (20 hours if you know what you're doing), maxing vr is another story.

Yes this is true. It's the vet grind post-50 that can be off-putting.

Iago · September 2014

Personally I like the vetren ranks and I hope they leave them be.

Morduil · September 2014

I am hugely relieved about the phase 3 removal of Veteran Ranks. They have always seemed to me to be a major design flaw that is currently resulting on overly aggressive progresssion that stops the broadening of the end game content that would otherwise be currently occurring.

What seems to me still to be an issue for many people, myself included, is the rather gimcrack-seeming nature of the Cadwell's quest post-main quest justufication. I agree with those that find it rather jarring to have to switch factional allegiance, even if only in a 'what if' scenario.

Would it, I wonder, be overly difficult to tweak the dialogue in the Cadwell-stage content to remove phrases that imply the main questline is still active and that you have switched alliances. For example somehow to make it maybe so that you are dealing with disturbances in the rest of Tamriel that have occurred in the wake of Molag Bal's / Mannimarcoi's scheming?

I realsie it wouldn't be exactly easy or quick - there would be a fair amount of work involved - but it might be easier than changing the entire content and/or the structure of the cross-factional levelling content?

Anastasia · September 2014

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

and remove the entire quest line for cadwell! My proposal? Expand the main quest line further after killing Molag Bal. Perhaps the new quest could be another threat or something as simple as resurrecting *SPOILER* whichever heroe you chose to sacrifice.

I really want to see major improvements to the leveling experience because grinding exp in the veteran zones was incredibly boring. The removal of veteran zones and veteran levels would further the idea of people rolling new alts on other factions (achievements etc).

There only negative with the removal of both veteran ranks and zones is the loss of skill points gained from skyshards and delve challenges. Obviously you would have to find a way to compensate us with extra skill points, perhaps increase the amount of skill points gained each level would suffice.

After reading through this thread, it is clear that there is still lots of confusion. It is also more than clear that there will be GNASHING OF TEETH because of said misunderstanding once the Champion system is finalized and activated in-game.

I look forward to details about it for clarification. From quotes by staff thus far I have never seen any comment at all that described removing any actual content from the current extra-two-faction romp for Vet content.

I am confident though that it is a misunderstanding on the part of some players who somehow have concluded that the upcoming changes in experience gain and the reframing of Vet ranks to the Champion System is going to morph TESO the MMO into a sandbox wonderland. The perk points we will get for our characters/and full accounts will be cool ways to get a little more depth for them.

There will still be progression.

The Season Gear is going to provide part of that and will be progressive; whatever cool new stuff is inside upcoming new content will give us the rest of what is TESO progression both for PvE and PvP. We don't know yet the details of that either and ZOS has tried to soften its blow by explaining that the not-quite-as-good-as/last version of Season Gear will be a little 'more comfy' for non-competitive players to obtain. So there is that!

Ser Lobo · September 2014

Seasonal Gear, which is very clearly intended to be an effort to force/encourage players to have to grind their gear to be competitive and up for content ... that will be released in the future and have all new gear to grind.

Of course, they said that earlier seasonal gear will be easier to get. But we're still in the dark if this system will completely kill crafters and their 'since-beta' promise that 'Crafted gear will be as good as any loot', etc, etc.

Remember, if they can break that promise, they can break any other promise they choose too, too. Just cause this one works out in favor of those players who like to kill bosses in a dungeon hundreds of time in order to loot rare sets that are marginally better than the season before, AS IT IS IN ALMOST EVERY SINGLE OTHER MMO OUT THERE, doesn't mean the next betrayal won't be something personal to you.

Oh, and let's not skip over the elitist and community-destroying 'Champion Rating' program they mentioned, where you will get a rank according to the level of gear you wear and the number of points you have invested, which will give you the skinny on what kind of content you are ready to do.

Because, gear rating is an amazing idea and totally promotes community niceties and socialization. Not.

In the end, we'll have to see when it gets here. I don't mind earning a few levels every few weeks. I really don't mind making new gear. But if this game goes the route of WoW and the majority of main-stream clones and turns into a gear grind, I just don't think I'll be interested anymore.

Next thing we know, we'll have an Auction House and holiday events that have nothing to do with the game world.

There ARE better MMO's with those same attributes out there, if I wanted them.

iaintoff · September 2014

emeraldbay wrote: »

...They are. The new Champion System coming within the next few major updates will completely replace Veteran Ranks. It's coming, be patient.

No they are just calling it a champion system. The methodology is the same the name has just changed, you will still have to troll thro endless quests in other factions to achieve championship points.

Xandryah · September 2014

My hopes are that the new system will grant many many more experience per "big"-village-quest after lvl 50 in other faction's territory...

Right now, veteran- levelling is honestly said from bottom of my heart a real Nighmare.

I personally just run from waypoint to waypoint, spacebar convos like mad and sprint to next waypoint , kill / gather / click and return to quest-giver, hoping that it's the last mini-quest within the big-quest , in order to cash in those 50k experience , which is , say, a meager1% of any veteran-bar....which makes , as said, veteraning itself a real trial, ordeal or nightmare... the system is not addictive from this point of view...

I like many other things of ESO though... i tend to write the things i don't like of the game ... so sorry, if i hurt some feelings...

Have fun, take care

Xandryah

Anu_Saukko_Tutkija · September 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

emeraldbay wrote: »

...They are. The new Champion System coming within the next few major updates will completely replace Veteran Ranks. It's coming, be patient.

This. Honestly, do people read anymore?

And OP: they aren't going to get rid of Cadwell's quests when that happens, nor are they going to close off other alliances. That would be a monumentally stupid decision, given the amount of achievements and titles associated with clearing all that content.

Lolled so hard to "Honestly, do people read anymore?" and "Please Remove Veteran Ranks Entirely"

Honestly Kids do read, but they just don't understand. what they read is champ.ion over veteran ranks. " omg omg wth some ion onion system is attached to veteran ranks" rage type asdasdasd

tordr86b16_ESO · September 2014

iaintoff wrote: »

emeraldbay wrote: »

...They are. The new Champion System coming within the next few major updates will completely replace Veteran Ranks. It's coming, be patient.

No they are just calling it a champion system. The methodology is the same the name has just changed, you will still have to troll thro endless quests in other factions to achieve championship points.

Did you just smash your head on the keyboard when you wrote that? It's been clearly stated that the champion system is going to replace the old one entirely. They are ripping out the old heart and placing in a new one, and not switching it up a few places here and there.

Anu_Saukko_Tutkija · September 2014

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

iaintoff wrote: »

emeraldbay wrote: »

...They are. The new Champion System coming within the next few major updates will completely replace Veteran Ranks. It's coming, be patient.

No they are just calling it a champion system. The methodology is the same the name has just changed, you will still have to troll thro endless quests in other factions to achieve championship points.

Did you just smash your head on the keyboard when you wrote that? It's been clearly stated that the champion system is going to replace the old one entirely. They are ripping out the old heart and placing in a new one, and not switching it up a few places here and there.

Like i said they can read but not understand what they just read about. lmao perfect example. he just jumped ass first to keyboard and watched what happens

iaintoff · September 2014

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

iaintoff wrote: »

emeraldbay wrote: »

...They are. The new Champion System coming within the next few major updates will completely replace Veteran Ranks. It's coming, be patient.

No they are just calling it a champion system. The methodology is the same the name has just changed, you will still have to troll thro endless quests in other factions to achieve championship points.

Did you just smash your head on the keyboard when you wrote that? It's been clearly stated that the champion system is going to replace the old one entirely. They are ripping out the old heart and placing in a new one, and not switching it up a few places here and there.

So peeps arnt going to have to troll though other factions to pick up championship points then lol.

I remember when a snicker use to be called a marathon, they just changed the name and added another layer of peanuts.

For weeks we had to explain to all the dumb arses that it was the same thing just with a different name and abit more gloss

Rofl

Anu_Saukko_Tutkija · September 2014

iaintoff wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

iaintoff wrote: »

emeraldbay wrote: »

...They are. The new Champion System coming within the next few major updates will completely replace Veteran Ranks. It's coming, be patient.

No they are just calling it a champion system. The methodology is the same the name has just changed, you will still have to troll thro endless quests in other factions to achieve championship points.

Did you just smash your head on the keyboard when you wrote that? It's been clearly stated that the champion system is going to replace the old one entirely. They are ripping out the old heart and placing in a new one, and not switching it up a few places here and there.

So peeps arnt going to have to troll though other factions to pick up championship points then lol.

I remember when a snicker use to be called a marathon, they just changed the name and added another layer of peanuts.

For weeks we had to explain to all the dumb arses that it was the same thing just with a different name and abit more gloss

Rofl

now now it aint the same

Soulborn_Solitude · February 2015

Don't worry he said after stating replacing veteran ranks...so don't worry!

NewBlacksmurf · February 2015

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

and remove the entire quest line for cadwell! My proposal? Expand the main quest line further after killing Molag Bal. Perhaps the new quest could be another threat or something as simple as resurrecting *SPOILER* whichever heroe you chose to sacrifice.

I really want to see major improvements to the leveling experience because grinding exp in the veteran zones was incredibly boring. The removal of veteran zones and veteran levels would further the idea of people rolling new alts on other factions (achievements etc).

There only negative with the removal of both veteran ranks and zones is the loss of skill points gained from skyshards and delve challenges. Obviously you would have to find a way to compensate us with extra skill points, perhaps increase the amount of skill points gained each level would suffice.

+1 and honestly there is no loss of skill points. When removing it, just grant them in another manner.

WraithAzraiel · February 2015

Holy necro, Batman

ferdiverbeekeb17_ESO2 · February 2015

What about keeping VR but somehow change things so that it is more attractive and addictive to play?

TheShadowScout · February 2015

VR's will be gone once they fully implement the chanpion system from what I hear, and good riddance.

Cadwells... I for one always liked being able to play throuigh the other alliances stories as well. And I expect other questing lovers will too. So I expect that one will stay...

...though there likely, hopefully, will be more opions coming our way, DLC or not. After all, not everyone enjoys cadwells, and many likely would like more choices in how to earn their post-50 prigression. And its always a good thing to have several possible ways...

AlexDougherty · February 2015

iaintoff wrote: »

emeraldbay wrote: »

...They are. The new Champion System coming within the next few major updates will completely replace Veteran Ranks. It's coming, be patient.

No they are just calling it a champion system. The methodology is the same the name has just changed, you will still have to troll thro endless quests in other factions to achieve championship points.

So you want to reach max level at level 50 and spend the rest of your time complaining that there is nothing to do??

Because if you are asking for what I think you are asking for, that's what you'll get.

Vizier · February 2015

They already have plans for removing veteran ranks, but if you think ESO will remain with a lvl 50 cap you are deluding yourself.

Additionally you want them to remove 2/3 of the PVE content per character by removing Cadwell's. LOL. What?

I'll agree they could stand to revise some of the quest lines but I'd rather see us be able to go to the enemy alliance territories as a spy or saboteur. You could pretty much do the quests as they are with a periodic quest to report to your handler and possibly have alternate endings for some key quests where you make them fail or something. Shrug. Easy and as a player I could get into those.

Additionally with 1.6 xp in pvp should be alot better so probably won't have to "grind" like you do now.

Welka · February 2015

Vet ranks need to go but we need to be able to quest the other factions.

The whole point of vet ranks removal is so you can access endgame stuff without the horrendous and loooooong vet grind. We'd all benefit from it since craglorn would then fill with all the players who never made v12-14 and never got to experience end game. It also means you can reroll more easily.

Can you imagine if you want to try all classes, you need to defeat the game... 12 times! No thanks.

Please @ZOS_GinaBruno‌, pass on to the powers at be. We do not want that horrible grind anymore. And while you're at it, please confirm vet ranks removal is still happening.

WraithAzraiel · February 2015

I'm still waiting for the area where we're able to group up with players from the other factions and quest/do PvE group content.

Is that area ever coming or no?

Feynn · February 2015

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

I'm still waiting for the area where we're able to group up with players from the other factions

Same here. Please make the new areas inter-faction areas. I don't think there is anyone in the community who could possibly be against that. @ZOS_GinaBruno, is this something in the plans? Is this something Zenimax would consider? Are there any insurmountable technical issues that would prevent that?

Speaking from a roleplay point of view, it would be great to be able to use those areas to RP with members of the other factions. Thanks!

AlexDougherty · February 2015

Feynn wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

I'm still waiting for the area where we're able to group up with players from the other factions

Same here. Please make the new areas inter-faction areas. I don't think there is anyone in the community who could possibly be against that. @ZOS_GinaBruno, is this something in the plans? Is this something Zenimax would consider? Are there any insurmountable technical issues that would prevent that?

Speaking from a roleplay point of view, it would be great to be able to use those areas to RP with members of the other factions. Thanks!

Craglorn and Coldharbour should allow this, as well as new area's like Orsinium and Clockwork City. I can understand if bits of it are faction locked, but majority should allow us to group like normal human beings.

But keep a Gamesmasters in the areas for idiots who like to insult others for no reason bar faction, being given a warning or teleported to the naughty step should work wonders there.

TheShadowScout · February 2015

Makes one wish they had done coldharbour and craglorn fraction-mixing from the very beginning, they story would support all three otherwise warring alliances working together under the aegis of the fighters&mages guilds in coldharbor to, you know, save the whole of nirn, while in craglorn the threat of the celestrial troubles also might being otherwise sworn enemies together to combat a greater evil...

Of course, who knows what the future may bring? Maybe someday we shall have zones just like that... quest with people from the other fractions in one zone, fighting a common foe, then wayshrine to cyrodil and fight against the very same people... it could happen...

NewBlacksmurf · February 2015

ferdiverbeekeb17_ESO2 wrote: »

What about keeping VR but somehow change things so that it is more attractive and addictive to play?

What ideas do you have?

NewBlacksmurf · February 2015

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Feynn wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

I'm still waiting for the area where we're able to group up with players from the other factions

Same here. Please make the new areas inter-faction areas. I don't think there is anyone in the community who could possibly be against that. @ZOS_GinaBruno, is this something in the plans? Is this something Zenimax would consider? Are there any insurmountable technical issues that would prevent that?

Speaking from a roleplay point of view, it would be great to be able to use those areas to RP with members of the other factions. Thanks!

Craglorn and Coldharbour should allow this, as well as new area's like Orsinium and Clockwork City. I can understand if bits of it are faction locked, but majority should allow us to group like normal human beings.

But keep a Gamesmasters in the areas for idiots who like to insult others for no reason bar faction, being given a warning or teleported to the naughty step should work wonders there.

I keep suggesting a PvE version of Cyrodil to replace the gold and silver quest areas...it's been months and still no changes like this.

WraithAzraiel · February 2015

There was an article on Massively, a good long while before launch, an interview with Paul Sage. And I think the VERY BEGINNING OF THEIR WORDSMITHERY .

May 19th 2013:

By Richie Procopio

Richie Procopio - Massively wrote:

While a three-alliance system works perfectly for ZeniMax's PvP plans, I was skeptical about its impact on other areas of the game. Part of the reason the megaserver technology was designed is to eliminate issues that always creep up during MMO launches with groups of friends ending up on different servers. Having three separate alliances (each with three different races) shifts the problem from needing to coordinate server choice to which faction are your friends going to be.

I was curious to hear Sage's take on the impact of three-way PvP, and he agreed that the studio had to make some concessions in order for players to feel a certain allegiance to their faction. We were told during an open Q&A session that communication across factions won't be permitted. At this point, I started to get nervous about a possible design misstep because splitting your playerbase into thirds can be detrimental when you're trying to get a group together for any cooperative activity, such as a dungeon run.

Sage assuaged most of my fears, however, when he mentioned that once you hit level 50 and decide to play in another alliance's areas, you'll be able to play with friends in that faction. So at the endgame, things begin to open up and you can group up, chat, and run dungeons with players of other factions. The one area where things remain separate is, of course, the Alliance War in Cyrodiil.

Bolded the relevant area.

Note how the Great and Powerful Sage states (though not a direct quote) that once you hit level 50 and decide to play in anohter alliance's area, you'll be able to play with friends IN that faction. NOT OF THAT FACTION.

Did Procopio, like the rest of his readers, fall victim to a cleverly worded response that allowed them to infer something about the game that was incorrect?

I sure as hell though I'd be able to quest and group with people from other factions after lvl 50 before the game came out. After launch and reaching 50, however, it was a much different story.

Here's the whole article for those interested: http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/19/the-elder-scrolls-online-interview-paul-sage/