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A Vocal Minority - And Welcome New Interested Players!
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The_Great_Maldini wrote: »http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/21/health/sitting-will-kill-you/index.html
Sitting for more than 8 hours per day can increase your risk for type 2 diabetes mellitus by 90%. Stop playing video games, go outisde, and get some exercise!
Hooorayyy!
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130821094924.htm
Playing certain video games train your brain to become more agile and increase your strategic thinking.
Also, I didn't know being a gamer & going outside were mutually exclusive. Last I checked, days were composed of 24 hours.
Casual gaming is good for brain development and visuospatial awareness. The military has designed drone systems to mimic video games. Surgeons who have played video games are more proficient at laparoscopic surgeries. There are some benefits to casual gaming.
There have also been many deaths in Asia directly attributed to binge gaming. There are extremes in all things, especially in video games. There is video game addiction, which can be as disastrous as all other addictions.
Most hardcore gamers play games for more than 10 hours per day easily, and this is not healthy. You commented on people who play "2 hours per week" as if it were something negative; when in reality, it should be the norm.3 -
Rescorla_ESO✭✭✭✭4 pages, and still no empirical evidence that the people upset about this change are a "minority"?
You may criticize that the polls held in the forums are not representative (of what, exactly?), but that absolutely does not mean the inverse is true.
There is also no empirical evidence that the people upset about the change represent the majority.
I personally don't think the forum community is an accurate sample of the games population. I think the OP's assessment is correct. No way I can prove or disprove it but I do know last night in my guild's voice chat no one was ranting and raving with the kind of hyperbole and exaggeration you are seeing on the forums. The discussion was level headed, calm and discussed all the pros and cons of the change. No one was going to rage quit.
4 -
Roechacca✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There's real questions out there and just sit back an drink the Kool-Aid threads like this answer none of them .2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The_Great_Maldini wrote: »The_Great_Maldini wrote: »http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/21/health/sitting-will-kill-you/index.html
Sitting for more than 8 hours per day can increase your risk for type 2 diabetes mellitus by 90%. Stop playing video games, go outisde, and get some exercise!
Hooorayyy!
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130821094924.htm
Playing certain video games train your brain to become more agile and increase your strategic thinking.
Also, I didn't know being a gamer & going outside were mutually exclusive. Last I checked, days were composed of 24 hours.
Casual gaming is good for brain development and visuospatial awareness. The military has designed drone systems to mimic video games. Surgeons who have played video games are more proficient at laparoscopic surgeries. There are some benefits to casual gaming.
There have also been many deaths in Asia directly attributed to binge gaming. There are extremes in all things, especially in video games. There is video game addiction, which can be as disastrous as all other addictions.
Most hardcore gamers play games for more than 10 hours per day easily, and this is not healthy. You commented on people who play "2 hours per week" as if it were something negative; when in reality, it should be the norm.
A professional footballer doesn't train 2 hours per week, they train 2 hours a day (minimum).
The more you do something, the better you get at it (and the more benefits you should get from doing it).
Sure, you can play games (be it football or video games) casually, but don't call yourself a "footballer" or a "gamer" then, and do not disrespect people who do it more seriously (I don't see this happening much in sports actually, only gaming).Edited by DDuke on January 22, 2015 4:33PM5 -
Heruthema✭✭✭✭There's real questions out there and just sit back an drink the Kool-Aid threads like this answer none of them .
What REAL questions are out there. The majority of the questions are really rants on how this game is going down the toilet. ZOS has answered most of these but the ranters do not want to hear the answers.
People do not like change, they never have. This is a major change, not unexpected, but still major. People are in panic mode right now. But if they would stop and truly watch the Live video and really read the FAQ most of their questions are answered whether or not they like the answers.7 -
Desdemonte✭✭✭To the OP @Grapdjan, I will attempt to explain this to you. I do not know your past history with MMOs, but I have to guess you are somewhat new to them. This is going to be a long read, but if you really care about the topic you started and want to get an insight into the people here who are upset, you'll read it. I will attempt to be as neutral and non-condescending as I can.
My belief is that this all comes down to a matter of experience in the MMO world. Let me elaborate:
I see MMO players as one of 2 types- New and Old, with "Intermediate" kind of wavering between the two. Some of the Intermediate subset will be new enough to lean toward the New and optimistic viewpoint and some will be old enough to lean toward the more pessimistic (some would say realistic, or experienced) viewpoint. The Intermediate subset probably cancels itself out in general mindset, and things like polls, etc. Then there is the very small subset that can pretty much be ignored because they also balance each other out. These are the people who have no objectivity and are either absolute Fanbois or Haters.
I used to be new and optimistic. My first MMO was DDO. I found it completely by chance a couple weeks after it went F2P. I actually thought it was a scam at first. I'd never heard of this ability to play a game for free. I didn't even have to buy the base game! I thought it was awesome! I always wanted to try WoW but couldn't afford the sub. I had one buddy who tried out Everquest in college. It looked like a cool idea, but eventually he couldn't afford the sub either.
So as a total bright eyed newb, I joined the DDO forums to learn how to play the game. They were pretty good forums. I played that game like an addiction for 3 years. I frigging loved it. I was very passionate about it. But then the cash stop started pushing the boundaries a little bit, seeing what they could get away with selling for money. Experienced players started screaming P2W and began leaving the game. The game was hurt a little bit by losing those experienced players.
The recoil on the forums settled a bit. DDO bided it's time but then pushed their boundaries again. Same screaming, more people leaving. More brain drain. The game was hurt further and the player population suffered a bit more because of it.
The cycle repeated again and again and again. Most serious players were leaving in droves. The game became more and more built around casual players (and no, I am not using this term in a derogatory manner here). This made it into more of a Facebook type game. Everybody became self sufficient because the game became so easy. Most content could be soloed. There was no need to be social, so the Multiplayer aspect went down, down, down. The game became completely P2W, or Pay to not have to Play and Still Get What You Want. No challenge at all. The game is now a hollow shell of what it was when I joined when it just went F2P.
I tried other games along the way that have used the same or similar F2P or B2P models. In order, they were Aion, SWToR, GW2 and The Secret World. So, not a lot, but a pretty good representation of the most popular MMOs out there. I would consider myself of Intermediate experience, leaning toward the Old group of pessimists.
Moving away from a sub-based P2P model is generally great for a failing game initially. It brings many more people to the game and rejuvenates it. The problem is that over time, the company realizes they are not making a sustainable amount from the cash shop and need to add more stuff to it. It slowly becomes P2W.
At first, new players don't care about that. I didn't, that's for sure. But the longer I was in DDO, the better I got, the more experienced I got, the more time I spent making my characters incrementally better, the more I became sensitive to the changes happening around me to the game. Then one day I looked around and saw that they had completely ruined the challenge of the game and it became very boring. It's like having the cheat codes for a single player game. That's OK if you just want to see the story, but that part doesn't take long. The sustainability and replay-ability is gone. Most players don't like that and leave. The MMO then becomes a Facebook game.
It may take a year, or two or even three for this to happen if your lucky. But depending on your tolerance of the downside, the game you love will be ruined. Maybe this does not matter to you?
There is no TL;DR version of this. If you want to understand, then read it. If you want to remain ignorant, don't. I don't really give a damn.Edited by Desdemonte on January 22, 2015 4:53PM6 -
Roechacca✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There's real questions out there and just sit back an drink the Kool-Aid threads like this answer none of them .
What REAL questions are out there. The majority of the questions are really rants on how this game is going down the toilet. ZOS has answered most of these but the ranters do not want to hear the answers.
People do not like change, they never have. This is a major change, not unexpected, but still major. People are in panic mode right now. But if they would stop and truly watch the Live video and really read the FAQ most of their questions are answered whether or not they like the answers.
People are asking if they have to pay for Imperial city on top of their subscription cost . Their asking if other content updates and zones will be charged on top of subscriptions now . If yesthen the game costs even more now . Take the blinders off . Everything's not cool yet ...1 -
Heruthema✭✭✭✭There's real questions out there and just sit back an drink the Kool-Aid threads like this answer none of them .
What REAL questions are out there. The majority of the questions are really rants on how this game is going down the toilet. ZOS has answered most of these but the ranters do not want to hear the answers.
People do not like change, they never have. This is a major change, not unexpected, but still major. People are in panic mode right now. But if they would stop and truly watch the Live video and really read the FAQ most of their questions are answered whether or not they like the answers.
People are asking if they have to pay for Imperial city on top of their subscription cost . Their asking if other content updates and zones will be charged on top of subscriptions now . If yesthen the game costs even more now . Take the blinders off . Everything's not cool yet ...
If you read the FAQ and watch the Live video you will hear and see that all that content is included in the subscription when it becomes available.
From the FAQ regarding subscriptions:Access to all downloadable content for the duration of membership.
Again read and listen to more than just what people are saying on the forum.0 -
Roechacca✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There's real questions out there and just sit back an drink the Kool-Aid threads like this answer none of them .
What REAL questions are out there. The majority of the questions are really rants on how this game is going down the toilet. ZOS has answered most of these but the ranters do not want to hear the answers.
People do not like change, they never have. This is a major change, not unexpected, but still major. People are in panic mode right now. But if they would stop and truly watch the Live video and really read the FAQ most of their questions are answered whether or not they like the answers.
People are asking if they have to pay for Imperial city on top of their subscription cost . Their asking if other content updates and zones will be charged on top of subscriptions now . If yesthen the game costs even more now . Take the blinders off . Everything's not cool yet ...
If you read the FAQ and watch the Live video you will hear and see that all that content is included in the subscription when it becomes available.
From the FAQ regarding subscriptions:Access to all downloadable content for the duration of membership.
Again read and listen to more than just what people are saying on the forum.
So no one has to pay for future expansions past subscription . Cool . I'll book mark this thread for future refrence .0 -
Roechacca✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There's real questions out there and just sit back an drink the Kool-Aid threads like this answer none of them .
What REAL questions are out there. The majority of the questions are really rants on how this game is going down the toilet. ZOS has answered most of these but the ranters do not want to hear the answers.
People do not like change, they never have. This is a major change, not unexpected, but still major. People are in panic mode right now. But if they would stop and truly watch the Live video and really read the FAQ most of their questions are answered whether or not they like the answers.
People are asking if they have to pay for Imperial city on top of their subscription cost . Their asking if other content updates and zones will be charged on top of subscriptions now . If yesthen the game costs even more now . Take the blinders off . Everything's not cool yet ...
If you read the FAQ and watch the Live video you will hear and see that all that content is included in the subscription when it becomes available.
From the FAQ regarding subscriptions:Access to all downloadable content for the duration of membership.
Again read and listen to more than just what people are saying on the forum.
ZOS_GinaBrunoZOS_GinaBruno admin
8:40AM Staff Post
Tamriel Unlimited is going to include all content from Updates 1-6, which includes the Champion System and the PvE component of the Justice System. We're not quite ready to discuss the exact details of what future DLC will contain, but Tamriel Unlimited will be everything up to Update 6.
Gina Bruno
Assistant Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
Facebook | Twitter | Google+ | Tumblr | Pinterest | YouTube
Flag Quote · 2Insightful 1Agree Awesome 3LOL
That's not exactly reassuring Champ2 -
Heruthema✭✭✭✭There's real questions out there and just sit back an drink the Kool-Aid threads like this answer none of them .
What REAL questions are out there. The majority of the questions are really rants on how this game is going down the toilet. ZOS has answered most of these but the ranters do not want to hear the answers.
People do not like change, they never have. This is a major change, not unexpected, but still major. People are in panic mode right now. But if they would stop and truly watch the Live video and really read the FAQ most of their questions are answered whether or not they like the answers.
People are asking if they have to pay for Imperial city on top of their subscription cost . Their asking if other content updates and zones will be charged on top of subscriptions now . If yesthen the game costs even more now . Take the blinders off . Everything's not cool yet ...
If you read the FAQ and watch the Live video you will hear and see that all that content is included in the subscription when it becomes available.
From the FAQ regarding subscriptions:Access to all downloadable content for the duration of membership.
Again read and listen to more than just what people are saying on the forum.
ZOS_GinaBrunoZOS_GinaBruno admin
8:40AM Staff Post
Tamriel Unlimited is going to include all content from Updates 1-6, which includes the Champion System and the PvE component of the Justice System. We're not quite ready to discuss the exact details of what future DLC will contain, but Tamriel Unlimited will be everything up to Update 6.
Gina Bruno
Assistant Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
Facebook | Twitter | Google+ | Tumblr | Pinterest | YouTube
Flag Quote · 2Insightful 1Agree Awesome 3LOL
That's not exactly reassuring Champ
Well CHAMP they have said it will include all DLC's. What and when each will be available has not been stated. So what? They are not going to release that content now, no company would. Especially when they are hounded every time a schedule slips.
So read doom if you want, I choose not to.
From the FAQ CHAMP!
What is downloadable content (also known as DLC)?
DLC for The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited consists of game packs with optional adventuring content (zones, quests, etc.) added to the game to enhance your game play experience should you choose. It is not required.1 -
VardamirSoul ShrivenThe people concerned about the cash shop have every reason to be concerned. Look at what happened with LotRO and SWTOR, within a year of adding cash shops both pretty much devolved into "maintenance mode" a.k.a. less and less money put towards developing actual content for the game and instead focusing more and more on centering the game around the cash shop.
For the first 6 months or so the game is still pretty good, but as time goes on content updates are few and far between, bugs and real issues go unresolved, but somehow the cash shop is updated weekly...lol... Trust me, when a AAA game like this goes B2P/F2P with a cash shop it inevitably degenerates into maintenance mode/cash shop centered, which IMO is a really awful business model. Sure, it's great for the publishers who get to milk people with microtransactions until the game dies, but terrible for the future outlook of the game and any players looking for a quality MMO with longevity.
SWTOR for example made around $150 million dollars from the cash shop in the first year, yet people had to wait a year and a half for a sorry excuse of an "expansion" that was totally anemic content wise and a lagfest filled with serious bugs. It was painfully obvious that only an extremely minimal part of those profits from the cash shop went towards developing "content" for the actual game.
I'm not saying 100% that this will happen with ESO, but if we look at recent MMO history it doesn't look very promising.1 -
Grapdjan✭✭✭✭Cheers Des, I appreciate your effort to edumacate me.
AndI did read all of this, as I was interested as to what a new mmo players take was on things.
Have you ever actually payed subscription to any of the games you listed other than ESO? TSW, SWtOR, Aion and GW2 are very poor examples of the genre, having played them all to endgame I don't think they compare well with games such as UO, EQ, EQ2, WoW, Rift and even possibly LotRO, AoC or VSoH. Which I have also played to endgame.
When you talk about old and new players and the pessimism or as you call it realism of older players, what I think you are confusing it with is simply nostalgia. Many long term gamers yearn back to the days of a nice simple business model ie. monthly subscription and an annual purchase of the relevant expansion.
What is important to remember though is that 'back in the day' of the rose tinted spectacles etc, there simply was't as much competition as there is now, and MMO publishers weren't as desperate for people to log in and play their product.
Now, you spoke of you and your college friend who tried EQ but ultimately could't justify the expense, and your desire to play WoW but inability to pay for it. This is relevant because unlike myself and many of my former hardcore guilders (now retired to 'casual' haha gamers) who had maybe 2 or 3 or as many 6 subscriptions running in some cases, there were many more people who didn't play at all.
Then WoW blossomed into a world devouring and competition stifling megagame, meaning many of the subs that could have gone around to new developers simply went straight into WoW. This led to the sad state of affairs where people would design and release ok-ish games, DDO, Aion, VSoH, EQ2 etc as mentioned above, but couldn't draw people into paying a sub for their game.
So you then entered the scenarios like the one surrounding the launch of GW2, AoC, VSoH - the SUPERHYPE of the WOWKILLER! A few thousand people would get hyped to hell over a game, play it to hell and come and worry on the forums that not enough people were playing. Faced with dwindling cash input to the game developers could fold (A la VSoH) or introduce and alternative payment system.
This is where the f2p/b2p model finds it's niche. In an overhyped game failing to meet the initial subscription target, or in an ageing game where a lot of the player base have decided that paying a sub is no longer justifiable in the face of the emerging 'next best thing' MMO that is sub only.
Remember those 'old, pessimistic(realistic) gamers? They tend to embrace subscription only games like a return to youth, a saviour from mundanity which they have experience in games such as described, and jump right on them. Only to have a terrible disappointment when said game realises that - wait a minute - they need a cash shop/b2p or f2p as they have not got anywhere near half the players they were expecting.
It usually starts out with fluff, and insignificant fluff items and account services such as name change etc, combined with some sort of bit currency that is used as an exchange for RL to game, and sometimes this can be traded, or used to by 'premium' sub membership, or gifted to people and so on.
Sometimes however, if the game really is a turkey and not going anywhere, even this doesn't help, and then the dev might push the boundaries even further to basically milk the few remaining addicts/enthusiasts for the last few bucks before they leave.
ESO has now followed this pattern and changed to b2p. I personally hope that will be enough to prevent it having to move to more p2w items, and that the console release players will help to pay for future content, and that it will continue to be fun - as it is a good game, and fun to play. However, if it does go down the road of p2w then it ultimately may crash and burn.
At which point many will leave for the Next Big Thing, and a few will stay till they switch it off.
Now dez, to quote you -Desdemonte wrote: »
There is no TL;DR version of this. If you want to understand, then read it. If you want to remain ignorant, don't. I don't really give a damn.
3 -
briandivisionb16_ESO✭✭✭✭I find your post extremely patronizing. You're basically saying that we players that are offering input are idiots for having an opinion, and expressing what we feel is good or bad for the game.
Like in politics where politicians say "Oh, that was a protest vote." No, we actually have an opinion and don't like where the game is headed. We'll continue to express that while you, Grapdjan, roll over and watch the game go pay-to-win.If your group is bigger than 6 members gain 75% damage reduction.
Write this on the back of your box and see how many sales you get!
You won't get any new PvP players until this archaic AoE crap is fixed.
I for one won't resub until:
1.) You fix lag.
2.) You remove AOE caps we voted against.
3.) 12 months have passed (this is how long we've waited for you to 'get with it')[/b]2 -
Grapdjan✭✭✭✭I'm saying nothing of the sort. All I was saying was - if you are new to the forums, don't pay much attention to a few people who are posting doomsaying death of ESO posts. Cos it'll be ok. I just wish it could all be expressed in one thread called 'why we don't want b2p'
-1 -
SteveCampsOut✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You'll be seeing a lot of this for a while....
@ֆȶɛʋɛƈǟʍքֆօʊȶ⍟
Sanguine & Psijic Group Beta Tester.
NA Server:Steforax Soulstrong CH782 Sorcerer ADEU Server:
Grumpy Kahjiti CH782 Dragonknight AD
Rheticia Le Drakisius CH782 Nightblade DC
Razmuzan Thrasmas CH782 Templar EP
Sheenara Soulstrong CH782 Dragonknight DC
Erik Ramzey CH782 Nightblade AD
Growling Kahjiti CH782 Nightblade EP
One of Many Faces CH782 Sorcerer DC
Grumpasaurus Rex CH782 Warden DCGuildmaster of Pacrooti's Hirelings AD Based LGBT Friendly Guild.
Stefrex Souliss CH701 Sorcerer AD
Grumpy Kahjiti CH701 Dragonknight DC
Slithisi Ksissi CH701 Nightblade EP
Pokes-With-Fire CH701 Dragonknight AD
Josie-The-Pussi-Cat CH701 Templar AD
Stug-Grog M'God CH701 Templar DC
One With Many Faces CH701 Nightblade DC
Trixie Truskan CH701 Sorcerer EP
Grumpetasaurus Rex CH701 Warden EP2 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cheese?Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"1 -
someuser✭✭✭✭DON'T PANIC! The people posting all the rage/betrayal/I quit threads on here, and voting in silly polls are the equivalent of the crazy white bearded hobo walking through your city with a board round his neck that says 'The End is Nigh'!
The other 95% of people are happily enjoying the game and are not even registered to post on the forums as they don't feel the need.
95% percent of people either do not care or are happy with the B2P change? Based on what numbers or is that just your optimistic attitude (spin)??
Maybe this change was necessary or maybe it was out of greed. Either way I am disappointed. The focus WILL increasingly shift to micro-transactions... Which is fine (not to everyone, but to me) if atleast that content is original and interesting... However, its usually fluff and garbage designed to require minimum design time with maximum return.
I'll be happy to eat my words if good actually comes from it, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.
But there is no doubt this model is here to stay.To make ESO look and feel like a PC MMO check out the following:
PhinixUI addon-powered interface for ESO1 -
SteveCampsOut✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Edited by SteveCampsOut on January 22, 2015 6:11PM@ֆȶɛʋɛƈǟʍքֆօʊȶ⍟
Sanguine & Psijic Group Beta Tester.
NA Server:Steforax Soulstrong CH782 Sorcerer ADEU Server:
Grumpy Kahjiti CH782 Dragonknight AD
Rheticia Le Drakisius CH782 Nightblade DC
Razmuzan Thrasmas CH782 Templar EP
Sheenara Soulstrong CH782 Dragonknight DC
Erik Ramzey CH782 Nightblade AD
Growling Kahjiti CH782 Nightblade EP
One of Many Faces CH782 Sorcerer DC
Grumpasaurus Rex CH782 Warden DCGuildmaster of Pacrooti's Hirelings AD Based LGBT Friendly Guild.
Stefrex Souliss CH701 Sorcerer AD
Grumpy Kahjiti CH701 Dragonknight DC
Slithisi Ksissi CH701 Nightblade EP
Pokes-With-Fire CH701 Dragonknight AD
Josie-The-Pussi-Cat CH701 Templar AD
Stug-Grog M'God CH701 Templar DC
One With Many Faces CH701 Nightblade DC
Trixie Truskan CH701 Sorcerer EP
Grumpetasaurus Rex CH701 Warden EP0 -
Grapdjan✭✭✭✭
95% percent of people either do not care or are happy with the B2P change? Based on what numbers or is that just your optimistic attitude (spin)??
I chose 95% as a very low estimate based on the amount of people who had voted on the weighted, but I guess most used player generated forum poll. Meaning that ESO has a population of around 16,720 people if the 826 that bothered to vote was 5% of the entire player base.2 -
Desdemonte✭✭✭Heh heh, touché
Yes, I did read what you wrote and you have some valid points. There definitely is a rose coloured glasses effect, but that doesn't negate the fact that those people are usually correct in their predictions that the games that go this route ultimately fail to do all that well. Sure, people may play, but I would guess it is more a "come and go" population, and the game degenerates to something of little substance.
To answer your question, I did actually sub to DDO for about 6 months to see if it was worth it. It wasn't. And that was before the game began to really go downhill but was still a crap- tonne of fun.
Your are correct that in the current market, there is fierce competition to attract and retain players. I understand *why* ZOS and others do what they do, but the difference here is that they *promised* they wouldn't. With knowledge of what generally happens when a game goes in this direction, and the fact that ZOS continue to bald-face lie,........ Well....... I put zero faith in them and zero stock on their ability to maintain any quality in this game. As it already has been, they've made a mess of it.Cheers Des, I appreciate your effort to edumacate me.
AndI did read all of this, as I was interested as to what a new mmo players take was on things.
Have you ever actually payed subscription to any of the games you listed other than ESO? TSW, SWtOR, Aion and GW2 are very poor examples of the genre, having played them all to endgame I don't think they compare well with games such as UO, EQ, EQ2, WoW, Rift and even possibly LotRO, AoC or VSoH. Which I have also played to endgame.
When you talk about old and new players and the pessimism or as you call it realism of older players, what I think you are confusing it with is simply nostalgia. Many long term gamers yearn back to the days of a nice simple business model ie. monthly subscription and an annual purchase of the relevant expansion.
What is important to remember though is that 'back in the day' of the rose tinted spectacles etc, there simply was't as much competition as there is now, and MMO publishers weren't as desperate for people to log in and play their product.
Now, you spoke of you and your college friend who tried EQ but ultimately could't justify the expense, and your desire to play WoW but inability to pay for it. This is relevant because unlike myself and many of my former hardcore guilders (now retired to 'casual' haha gamers) who had maybe 2 or 3 or as many 6 subscriptions running in some cases, there were many more people who didn't play at all.
Then WoW blossomed into a world devouring and competition stifling megagame, meaning many of the subs that could have gone around to new developers simply went straight into WoW. This led to the sad state of affairs where people would design and release ok-ish games, DDO, Aion, VSoH, EQ2 etc as mentioned above, but couldn't draw people into paying a sub for their game.
So you then entered the scenarios like the one surrounding the launch of GW2, AoC, VSoH - the SUPERHYPE of the WOWKILLER! A few thousand people would get hyped to hell over a game, play it to hell and come and worry on the forums that not enough people were playing. Faced with dwindling cash input to the game developers could fold (A la VSoH) or introduce and alternative payment system.
This is where the f2p/b2p model finds it's niche. In an overhyped game failing to meet the initial subscription target, or in an ageing game where a lot of the player base have decided that paying a sub is no longer justifiable in the face of the emerging 'next best thing' MMO that is sub only.
Remember those 'old, pessimistic(realistic) gamers? They tend to embrace subscription only games like a return to youth, a saviour from mundanity which they have experience in games such as described, and jump right on them. Only to have a terrible disappointment when said game realises that - wait a minute - they need a cash shop/b2p or f2p as they have not got anywhere near half the players they were expecting.
It usually starts out with fluff, and insignificant fluff items and account services such as name change etc, combined with some sort of bit currency that is used as an exchange for RL to game, and sometimes this can be traded, or used to by 'premium' sub membership, or gifted to people and so on.
Sometimes however, if the game really is a turkey and not going anywhere, even this doesn't help, and then the dev might push the boundaries even further to basically milk the few remaining addicts/enthusiasts for the last few bucks before they leave.
ESO has now followed this pattern and changed to b2p. I personally hope that will be enough to prevent it having to move to more p2w items, and that the console release players will help to pay for future content, and that it will continue to be fun - as it is a good game, and fun to play. However, if it does go down the road of p2w then it ultimately may crash and burn.
At which point many will leave for the Next Big Thing, and a few will stay till they switch it off.
Now dez, to quote you -Desdemonte wrote: »
There is no TL;DR version of this. If you want to understand, then read it. If you want to remain ignorant, don't. I don't really give a damn.
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RianaTheBosmer✭✭✭
So you will need to buyMjollnir_NL wrote: »It is B2P :-)
Now i can get my gf to play it. She does not like the play a monthly fee. But she does like to Buy to play.
- Imperial City
- House system
- Spellcrafting
- Each new zones
- Thief guild
and also mimimi dresses *
You have no idea how they are going to do it or what the prices will be. Housing, I have not heard anything about housing except from wishful thinkers. Costing 30.00 for each DLC, no one from ZOS has said that either.
Edited by RianaTheBosmer on January 22, 2015 8:03PM0 -
Tazzoc✭✭I've come full circle on this topic since yesterday. I was one with a knee jerk reaction, possibly becasue I came from Swtor and what I perceive a failure BtP. The TESO model moving forward looks viable, and yes nothing really changes for those that sub. It improves actually. I'll look forward to it.1 -
Heruthema✭✭✭✭I am not sure what everyone is crying about. You have nothing to lose at this point. You own the game so play it, dont sub if you want, you have that choice now. If the game sucks later, leave, if not stay. No One Knows how this will turn out.
I really do not care what happen to SWOTR, LOTR, whatever MMO you name. You still do not know how it will turn out.
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I am not sure what everyone is crying about. You have nothing to lose at this point. You own the game so play it, dont sub if you want, you have that choice now. If the game sucks later, leave, if not stay. No One Knows how this will turn out.
I really do not care what happen to SWOTR, LOTR, whatever MMO you name. You still do not know how it will turn out.
Maybe there are players more invested in the game than you, who don't want to wave away thousands of hours of character progression?
There's some food for thought...3 -
Razzak✭✭✭✭✭I've come full circle on this topic since yesterday. I was one with a knee jerk reaction, possibly becasue I came from Swtor and what I perceive a failure BtP. The TESO model moving forward looks viable, and yes nothing really changes for those that sub. It improves actually. I'll look forward to it.
Items will not be better than crafted ones. But will crafting stil be as viable? Will the materials for crafting still drop at the same rate? They will almost definitely hold to that part of their promise. But that is all they promised. A quality comparison. They said nothing about changes to the way you get those items outside of cash shop.
What do you think will happen if crafters will hold higher sell numbers than cash shop? They will slowly but surely squize the life out of them. One way or the other. Cash shop will be their biggest money making routine, not subs. Because they can
simply create one new item and sell it by the millions if need be. They know they can't sell millions of subs.0 -
Heruthema✭✭✭✭I am not sure what everyone is crying about. You have nothing to lose at this point. You own the game so play it, dont sub if you want, you have that choice now. If the game sucks later, leave, if not stay. No One Knows how this will turn out.
I really do not care what happen to SWOTR, LOTR, whatever MMO you name. You still do not know how it will turn out.
Maybe there are players more invested in the game than you, who don't want to wave away thousands of hours of character progression?
There's some food for thought...
I have as much if not more time invested in this game as you. So take your elitist attitude and ...
My statement still stands, what do you have to lose? Nothing! And you do not KNOW how this will turn out no matter how many MMO's you have under your elitist belt.3 -
Hrafnar✭✭And who says what side is a minority? What empirical data do you rely on when coming to the conclusion that your side is the majority? Exactly, you can't come to that conclusion without bias guessing.No Retreat, No Surrender0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-r-V0uK4u0