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Block Casting *IS* Getting Nerfed In 1.6
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suycyco✭✭✭Currently you can't light or heavy attack while holding block. (It's basically the only thing you can't do while holding block.) In 1.6 you can't generate ultimate without light or heavy attacks.
You forget about the passive, when I am in my tank mode (mostly used in pve) with the ww ultimate, and my syphon NB passive, I up my ultimates blocking and using my aoe (hopefully it's doesn't rely on crit since on my tank I have something like 5% crit) , add this in pvp the assault passive ...
And not to forget most of permablocking player are using a resto staff in other weapon so they will cast a heal on other player who is fighting and then go to front with the buff on.
In my opinion this won't change so much things.
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Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I still love the fact that so few people understand how important block casting is to PvP and to PvE
But people always wanna look for a reason they died.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos5 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »
But on topic, this change won't be a nerf to block casting unless the only way to generate ultimate will be via the light/heavy attacks. And I don't believe that is the case.
But.... this is the case.
Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos1 -
drschplatt✭✭✭✭I'm a little sad that AOE won't generate more ultimate anymore. It won't matter if you're hitting 6 enemies at once you get the same ultimate as if you had just hit something once and ran away. It was a useful strategy with a destro staff to crit surge, and then run into a mess of enemies blasting away with AOE to quickly recover ultimate and throw a suppression down when things started to go pear shaped.
No more, no more. "Oh CRAP!" skills will be harder to come by.Foräois - Imperial Sorcerer of Ineptitude.
Widoch - Nord Dragon Knight of Ignorance.
Billy Bob - Dunmer Templar of Chicken and Noodles.
Blades of Vengeance2 -
Charadras✭✭What about if block can be bashed? If you hold block a player can bash you and you are out of balance and bash make damage like an interrupt.
War Inc - EU
Gilda Italiana PVP
Apply su www.warinccommunity.com/forum
Charadras DK vr 14 - Ebonheart Pact0 -
XEVENEX✭✭✭✭Oh? You might want to read THIS thread before you think I'm just speculating that current abilities/passives that generate additional Ultimate will continue to do so in 1.6. If you can't find it, Gina Bruno's response is the 6th reply down from the OP.
Why didnt you just quote it? Because that's not what it says at all. Show me where it says that:ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »That's not the only way to generate Ultimate; you can also use a few abilities to get more, such as Carve from the 2H skill line (and the amount of Ultimate that ability gives has been rebalanced as well) or healing another player with the Ultimate gain buff. You will not gain Ultimate by blocking or dodging.
No more ultimate from blocking or dodging as well.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ShannonM on January 14, 2015 5:51PM1 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
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There ARE only a FEW abilities/passives that generate additional Ultimate, EXACTLY what Gina said will still continue in 1.6.Oh? You might want to read THIS thread before you think I'm just speculating that current abilities/passives that generate additional Ultimate will continue to do so in 1.6. If you can't find it, Gina Bruno's response is the 6th reply down from the OP.
Why didnt you just quote it? Because that's not what it says at all. Show me where it says that:ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »That's not the only way to generate Ultimate; you can also use a few abilities to get more, such as Carve from the 2H skill line (and the amount of Ultimate that ability gives has been rebalanced as well) or healing another player with the Ultimate gain buff. You will not gain Ultimate by blocking or dodging.
No more ultimate from blocking or dodging as well.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ShannonM on January 14, 2015 5:52PM1 -
Lord_Bidr✭✭✭I have a sorceror that I love to use in pvp. He uses sword and shield for the passives that boosts survivability, but I tend to stay far away and use my class skills for damage. This change to how ultimates are generated is going to be pain in the butt...this means now I will have to either switch to a ranged weapon and do light attack every 8 seconds, or get close and try not to die by getting rooted/stunned as I land a light attack.
ZOS, how about changing the ultimate generation so that it generates the same way as you want it, but instead of going off just light and heavy attacks, it goes off any attack?~ The brightest lights often cast the darkest shadows. ~2 -
XEVENEX✭✭✭✭The only thing they are removing is Crit, Block, damage/healing done to gain Ultimate and gaining Ultimate outside of combat.
You just listed every single significant source of ultimate. All could be done while holding block. It's all gone. The main source of ultimate is now light & heavy attacks.That means 'Block-casting' isn't being nerfed like you think it is.
Yes, it's being nerfed exactly like I think it is.
Edited by XEVENEX on January 14, 2015 5:26PM3 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ArconSeptim wrote: »Now I'm interested on how will Tanks generate ultimate
Tanks are in melee range usually. Just stop blocking each 8 seconds and perform a light attack
simple as that. Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos4 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
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Nope, both NB and DK can generate crazy amounts of Ultimate with very little crit/block/etc due to additional gain via abilities/passives (3 SoM simultaneously ring a bell?). As an example I can be in a "grinding spec" that gives me hardly any crit, stand still holding block and block-cast Sap Essence and be capable of dropping VoB before the first one expired as long as there are 5-6 enemies, which is under 15 seconds. This is with zero set bonuses to reduce Ultimate cost. Sap Essence is one of those few abilities that will continue to generate additional Ultimate in 1.6 due to the passive in the Siphoning Tree.You just listed every single significant source of ultimate. All could be done while holding block. It's all gone. The main source of ultimate is now light & heavy attacks.
At current Sap Essence gives up to 12 Ultimate every 1.3 seconds (via the passive alone, with 6 enemies). That means with ONLY the passive working and there being 6 targets present, a NB could drop VoB every ~22 seconds with NO other mechanic to generate Ultimate or any set bonuses to reduce it's cost. This will likely change in 1.6 as both Maria and Gina talked about some balancing needed for those few abilities/passives that generate additional Ultimate.
Now, will I add a single LA every 8 seconds for an additional 24 Ultimate gain, you bet, but it sure as hell is no nerf to block-casting to drop block for less than 0.5s to tap LMB.
Tanks will be able to drop Ultimates more often on ST fights than they can now. How much faster will depend on what "balancing" ZoS does to abilities/passives that currently generate additional Ultimate like Funnel Health for NB's that Tanks sometimes use.ArconSeptim wrote: »Now I'm interested on how will Tanks generate ultimateEdited by DeLindsay on January 14, 2015 6:06PM3 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
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Right. I understand that. This forces you to take your finger off of block for a split second once every 8 seconds. I dont necessarily see people blocking less, I see block casters generating less ultimate.
I don't. It's not hard to cancel 1 light attack every 8 seconds and still not lose any real defense from blocking.
People who think this will mean anything for block casting's prevalence are just being overly hopeful and/or kidding themselves.4 -
XEVENEX✭✭✭✭Now, will I add a single LA every 8 seconds for an additional 24 Ultimate gain, you bet, but it sure as hell is no nerf to block-casting to drop block for less than 0.5s to tap LMB.
Of course it is. It's one more thing you have to remember to do between reflective scales. Oh hey I know how to help you remember. Drop block and light attack once for every two reflective scales.
You think it's not, I think it is, and that's ok. I can't wait to see what you block casters do after 1.7... (When they DIRECTLY nerf block casting.)
Edited by XEVENEX on January 14, 2015 6:39PM3 -
GrimMauKin✭✭✭✭I'm still confused about the Ultimate generation in 1.6; my bread and butter attack is Blood Craze, it's a skill not a light or heavy mouse click attack; currently it generates Ultimates will it stop doing this in 1.6?I am one of The Great Mediocracy, those whose role in life is to provide the baseline by which The Few deem themselves Great.0 -
XEVENEX✭✭✭✭GrimMauKin wrote: »I'm still confused about the Ultimate generation in 1.6; my bread and butter attack is Blood Craze, it's a skill not a light or heavy mouse click attack; currently it generates Ultimates will it stop doing this in 1.6?
The ultimate gained from Blood Craze was from the damage/crit it did. Ultimate from damage/crit is gone, so yes.
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XEVENEX✭✭✭✭Frenkthevile wrote: »In 1.6 you'll be able to block AoE, tell me agian where is that ''nerf'' :P ?
This is actually a nerf, as block casters will soon see. They simply will not have the stamina to keep up. I can't wait.Edited by XEVENEX on January 14, 2015 7:09PM2 -
Ommamar✭✭✭✭GrimMauKin wrote: »I'm still confused about the Ultimate generation in 1.6; my bread and butter attack is Blood Craze, it's a skill not a light or heavy mouse click attack; currently it generates Ultimates will it stop doing this in 1.6?
Wait and see when update 6 drops. The ultimate was from crit but sounds like heavy changes coming so might still produce ultimate from a different path.0 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭Frenkthevile wrote: »In 1.6 you'll be able to block AoE, tell me agian where is that ''nerf'' :P ?
This is actually a nerf, as block casters will soon see. They simply will not have the stamina to keep up. I can't wait.
Yea at first I hated the fact that AoE was going to be blockable. Now that I have had time to reflect on all that was said I welcome the change to this. ONLY because it is going to drain stamina faster which I am 100% behind when it comes to stupid permablockcasters.
I hate when people try to defend that broken play style. "Fear counters it" I am not a NB. "2H swords get through it" thats not my play style. "Grab sword and shield and do it yourself" again no not my play style. For anything other than those three cookie cutter statements there really is no hope. *looking at you sorc*
The only thing that would make this better and I feel would GREATLY increase the risk vs reward aspect of this game; would be to add stamina draining to ALL forms of frost attacks and magicka drain to ALL forms of lightning attacks.
BOOM! well @ZOS_GinaBruno :P make it so :P just like every other elder scrolls game before eso! Frost drains stamina and lightning drained magicka!6 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
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This should've been in the game from day 1.The only thing that would make this better and I feel would GREATLY increase the risk vs reward aspect of this game; would be to add stamina draining to ALL forms of frost attacks and magicka drain to ALL forms of lightning attacks.
BOOM! well @ZOS_GinaBruno :P make it so :P just like every other elder scrolls game before eso! Frost drains stamina and lightning drained magicka!4 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
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This should've been in the game from day 1.The only thing that would make this better and I feel would GREATLY increase the risk vs reward aspect of this game; would be to add stamina draining to ALL forms of frost attacks and magicka drain to ALL forms of lightning attacks.
BOOM! well @ZOS_GinaBruno :P make it so :P just like every other elder scrolls game before eso! Frost drains stamina and lightning drained magicka!
Exactly, which is why I keep throwing it out there EVERYWHERE lol so many people disagree with it though. Why, well there is only one reason as to why and we all know what that is.0 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭then those frost and lightning enchantments would be greatly coveted and actually have a use outside of getting crafting xp for making it. Then there would be no need to fix block casting as those two mechanics would fix the issue and force players to think about what they are doing.
Edited by Gorthax on January 14, 2015 7:44PM2 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭then those frost and lightning enchantments would be greatly coveted and actually have a use outside of getting crafting xp for making it. Then there would be no need to fix block casting as those two mechanics would fix the issue and force players to think about what they are doing.
Absolutely. If these were in game, it would go a long way towards fixing these problems. No nerfs or buffs necessary. A lightning or a frost build could be a counter to 1vX and zergbombs as well as a whole host of other things people complain about.
Sorcerers would have an awesome place as being able to shut down casters. Though, that's probably one of the reasons why it's not in game....This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!1 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭yea sorcs would have an advantage thats for sure, but lets be real. THEY NEED IT! p.s. currently AoE from sorcs (and destro) are so laughable that people literally stand in them and soak the damage because one resto skill cast can negate the damage coming in.
HOWEVER! With the added change of frost draining stamina and lightning draining magicka, it would make standing in the AoE an actual threat. A sorc using lightning skills with frost staff would be a considerable threat, and it SHOULD be a option. I say if people want to block cast all day long, and people who DONT want to use melee or bows should have this as the way to counter said permablockcasters.
Make this one change happen @ZOS_GinaBruno and then you can keep permablockcasting in the game for all I care lol then mages, TRUE mages (sorry S&S block casters), would have a viable counter to it.
EDIT: It would add more depth to the game in pvp. Support sorcs would be a viable option, and they wouldnt suffer 1v1 either. They would stand a chance! Again, not talking sword and shield or any form of melee sorcs or bow sorcs. TRUE caster sorcs is what I am referring to
Edited by Gorthax on January 14, 2015 8:04PM1 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭To make it work properly though it would have to be a base amount drained from all forms of those attacks. That way if you enchant your weapon with it you can get the same drain affect as a caster. Or just grab the corresponding element for the affect you want. A frost staff with frost enchantment could NOT proc double drain. That could not be allowed. However, a frost staff with lightning enchant could proc both. No need to worry Dragonknights, you flap your wings enough so frost staffs will be useless against you via light and heavy attacks, even after the only 4 projectile buff :P (yea I said buff)
Also doing this would make people drop block to restore magicka or stamina effectively making pvp not a skill/spell spam macro game. Light attacks and heavy attacks would actually be used more often than what we see currently.Edited by Gorthax on January 14, 2015 8:09PM0 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that those effects were origonaly intended to be ingame. But somewhere along the line, things changed. I am sure that along these lines, the sorcerer was intended to be a disruption/controller class. The only things that remain of that are the dark magic line, notably negate.
This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!1 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agreed. Bring it back. Make the sorcs how they were supposed too! KILL MANY BIRDS WITH ONE ADDITION!0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭What about if block can be bashed? If you hold block a player can bash you and you are out of balance and bash make damage like an interrupt.
I'd actually love to see something like this implemented.
Strangely enough, I was thinking about something similar just the other night, though I was thinking more of something like a "Throw" move (showing my fighting game-era roots right here, lol).
In most games where players can block and turtle, there is a counter mechanic that allows you to get through this kind of lame defense, ensuring that players can't just hold down the block button indefinitely. In ESO, stamina drain from blocking was supposed to be this limiting function, but obviously that has been a complete and utter failure.
Something like what @Charadras has mentioned here would be a nice solution, imo. I was personally considering a move that you could use that costs stamina to throw a blocking opponent to the ground, causing them to be vulnerable for 2-3 seconds.
That way, blocking becomes a more dynamic occurrence for fear of leaving yourself open to unmitigated damage if you rely too heavily on holding down your block button.0
