Faugaun wrote: »

I gave you an insightful on that last one @Robocles‌

It will be interesting how end game group content will exists when all players are constantly getting strong and there is no system to group them as similar or different in power.

I imagine it will eventually end in "need 2000+ CP, please post link to live webcam to authenticate your CP".... Or something else equally nonsensical.

I note that you aren't responding to my replies, which is fine. Perhaps because you think I do not understanding your concern. I want to let you know that, at first, I thought you had a valid point. But then I started actually thinking about it.

Again, do you know what diminished returns means?

We've already been told that perhaps the first handful of points in a given sign in the Champion System will create somewhat of a power gap. After that, it may just be a .0x% increase in overall effect on gameplay.

Whilst Zenimax gave me a good laugh removing torchbugs and deer to lower the lag in Cyrodiil, this thread is also good for a laugh.
You will get your delay as Zenimax has not even got the new system on the PTS. If the Hybrid Champion system hits the main servers within a month then I suspect we will all be surprised.
Plenty of time for you to get some champion points if you play and not spend all your time posting.

Why is everyone so obsessed with the silver/gold quests and the xp they gain? I immediately completed both storylines, collected all skyshards, and I finished at VR4. It got 3 levels from it. I've gained levels faster in cyrodil since than I did with the silver/gold quests. And even faster in Crag. The xp for completing quests is usually like 3k. Or the same as attacking about 10 monsters in lower crag.

Bulldog1205 wrote: »

Why is everyone so obsessed with the silver/gold quests and the xp they gain? I immediately completed both storylines, collected all skyshards, and I finished at VR4. It got 3 levels from it. I've gained levels faster in cyrodil since than I did with the silver/gold quests. And even faster in Crag. The xp for completing quests is usually like 3k. Or the same as attacking about 10 monsters in lower crag.

You gained 3 Veteran levels from doing ALL the Silver and Gold Content? I call shenanigans.

19 zones of quests.

Impossible, you'd be horridly underleveled. You can't even access the Gold content until you finish all the Silver, and you're at least V6 when that happens, even if you're only doing the quest lines required by Cadwell's Almanac.

No way you were killing V7-V10 quest mobs as a V4. Skyshards I could believe, all at V6 or V7 I could believe. But fully completing Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold at V4. Nope.

And there's no way you gained levels faster in Cyrodiil. XP from PvP is absolutely atrocious.

Grinding Craglorn I believe. I've seen V1's and V2's and all the rest in there in grind groups.

Now lets pick apart your handle on how much XP the quests give. Unless you were doing this quests blindly while we were all experiencing the Great VP to XP Debacle of 2014 and without pausing to wonder why everything in the zone in which you were currently questing is 2-6 levels higher than you - your math is completely wrong.

So unless this post was meant to somehow be ironic or witty, you're flat out, unabashedly wrong.

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Bulldog1205 wrote: »

Why is everyone so obsessed with the silver/gold quests and the xp they gain? I immediately completed both storylines, collected all skyshards, and I finished at VR4. It got 3 levels from it. I've gained levels faster in cyrodil since than I did with the silver/gold quests. And even faster in Crag. The xp for completing quests is usually like 3k. Or the same as attacking about 10 monsters in lower crag.

You gained 3 Veteran levels from doing ALL the Silver and Gold Content? I call shenanigans.

19 zones of quests.

Impossible, you'd be horridly underleveled. You can't even access the Gold content until you finish all the Silver, and you're at least V6 when that happens, even if you're only doing the quest lines required by Cadwell's Almanac.

No way you were killing V7-V10 quest mobs as a V4. Skyshards I could believe, all at V6 or V7 I could believe. But fully completing Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold at V4. Nope.

And there's no way you gained levels faster in Cyrodiil. XP from PvP is absolutely atrocious.

Grinding Craglorn I believe. I've seen V1's and V2's and all the rest in there in grind groups.

Now lets pick apart your handle on how much XP the quests give. Unless you were doing this quests blindly while we were all experiencing the Great VP to XP Debacle of 2014 and without pausing to wonder why everything in the zone in which you were currently questing is 2-6 levels higher than you - your math is completely wrong.

So unless this post was meant to somehow be ironic or witty, you're flat out, unabashedly wrong.

Is there really that much difference between VR4 and VR10? It's 6 levels. Probably made up the difference by crafting my own purple gear. Content was not challenging whatsoever. And I am by no means a "pro" player, either. Any properly equipped decent player should be able to do it.

Looks like Silver and Gold main story make up 55 quests. Woo-hoo, 55 quests. I gained 3 VR levels (I think it was about 3.8 or so, to be more exact. I was pretty close to VR5) from 55 quests and the exploration that comes with it. Why is that so hard to believe.

Also, Cyrodiil xp is not poor at all, at least during busy times. You get 12k for completing the kill players quest, which is about 3-4x more than a normal quest and really doesn't take any longer. Plus all the other repeatables.

Joejudas wrote: »

Listen....this forum is a place to express your opinion....but if it's silly and pointless....which most of us think it is then people will tell you it is. I grasp what your saying....and it's silly.

@Joejudas its not right to shut down peoples conversations because you disagree with what they say or because you feel it is silly. That is immature behaviour, BTW 15 CP earned, still feel this is a huge problem. I'll let you know how I feel at VR14....spoiler alert: I will still feel it is a big problem (just because a VR1 sees it doesn't mean it isn't a problem...

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

shanersimms_ESO wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

I would first like to say that while in the previous plan I would have received 30 cp and now I will receive 0 cp the newest CP conversions method by Zos seems to be more fair.

I am however concerned about the double bonus (temporarily) to VR 14 players (or any in the top bracket).

Please keep in mind this is from the view of a VR1 who has subbed since the beginning.

Under the VR system players with higher ranks are allowed much stronger gear compared to those at VR1. This by itself is fine, they progressed their gear and it is rightfully earned and I will suck it up, put on my big boy pants and cope.

Under the CS system the early points are much more valuable than the later points from the models I have read (example: 1.0%, 0.9%, 0.8%...) Due to diminishing returns. This is actually kinda cool as it longterm aims to balance the playing field (mostly). Further the account wide method is really cool and I love it (providing the skills themselves are likable, I am banking they will be).

All of the above is great and wonderful, my concern is just that overlapping the retro compensation with the VR system is way OP.

If I am a VR14, here is how I play this, I put each skill point in separate areas with desirable skills, netting as many 1.0% bonuses as possible which are then stacked on top of my VR14 gear (which is significantly stronger than VR1 gear).

OK so its becoming apparent that the strong get stronger and the weak cannot compete. Let me take it one step further.

Let's suppose the VR1 and VR14 grind exp at the exact same rate and the VR14 is 'forced' to place the next 70 cp into 0.9% increases while the VR1 gets the spiffy 1.0% increases.....you would think that the VR1 would be gaining ground, but this may not be the case since the 0.9% bonus on VR14 gear and with all the extra skill points they have likely acquired is actually much more beneficial than the 1.0% increase is for the VR1. (I admit eventually that same VR1 will level and be able to use VR14 gear....maybe, but in the in between time the VR14 becomes much more powerful (which has the effect of making it much more difficult for the VR1 to gain exp in PvP, and subsequently allows the VR14 to gain exp and thus CP much more rapidly than the VR1).

It is under this logic that I would like to see the CP points awarded for VR ranks (experience) only be awarded once the VR system is completely removed (very 1.7?).

I hope the community agree or at least gives constructive criticism of my views but I half expect to be flamed by VR14's for this suggestion.

Cheers,
A concerned VR1

P.S. Zos I know you guys listen it is evident in all your actions. Please consider this and make the best decision for the game.

I believe the OP has a legitimate concern. There is a very simple fix:

Upon release of the CS, go ahead and normalize all gear VR1+ to a single level 50 equivalent standard. Obviously those of use who have VR14 gear compared to the fresh VR1s would be getting the raw deal, so to compensate you should grant a set number (maybe 5?) CS points per veteran rank the player has achieved upon the release of the CS. (i.e. VR1 gets 5 CS points, VR6 gets 30, VR10 gets 50, VR14 gets 70, etc.)

Even as a player who is sitting close to 13k achieve pts, has played since beta, and has a great number of complete V14 gear sets, I believe this is a fair method upon release of the CS. This method would also foster the normalization process that will eventually have to occur to remove Vet ranks altogether.

No. Champion Points are being awarded in 1.6 TO TEST THE CHAMPION SYSTEM ON A MASSIVE SCALE.

WAITING TO GIVE CP OUT UNTIL VET RANKS GO AWAY RENDERS THE litmus test that is the 3rd stage of a 4 stage implementation - useless.


OP isn't going on about gear, isn't going on about this or that or blah blah blah, they are suggesting* (keyword) that the handing out of Champion Points be postponed until the 4th and final stage of the Champion System introduction - the removal of Veteran Ranks.


There is no information from ZOS on how itemization is going to be handled. How stats are going to be handle. How anything is going to be handled one Veteran Ranks go bye-bye.

They are taking this 1 step at a time.

What the OP is asking for is that they deviate from their 4 step process. Turning it into a 3 stage process and effectively a potential cluster@#$%! of problems for ZOS and their bug-squashing team.


LEAVE IT ALONE.

@WraithAzraiel‌

Nice try but no I am not asking that they deviate from their 4 step process. I am only suggesting that the CP that are from the pre 1.6 play period be postponed till VR is removed any that you earn once CS is live should be usable immediately. Any which Zos want to give us to test with should be given (similar to the 30 cp plan, if that is necessary) but compensation points (those 0-70 points that they freely give in apparent compensation for the player VR ranks) should be delayed until VR is removed (if it is removed).

What I am "Suggesting", as you so aptly put it... Is that giving VR 14 players 70 and VR 13 players 60 and VR2 players 5 and VR1 players 0 CP WHILE VR is active creates a larger power bias than that which is already present and this bias is unfair and inappropriate and will have a negative influence on the community (but a positive benefit, with regards to character strength, on the VR14 subgroup of the community).

This negative effect on the community hurts everyone who subscribes to the game equally. This is this point. The community as a whole suffers if the developer gives benefits to one subgroup over another arbitrarily, because while one subgroup benefits another is hurt an equal amount. This arbitrary hurt to a subgroup breeds dissatisfaction and distaste for the system....over the long haul it is stuff like this which creates holes in the bucket...to many holes and quickly you run out of water...no water ...well no way to put out the fire.

Bulldog1205 wrote: »

Why is everyone so obsessed with the silver/gold quests and the xp they gain? I immediately completed both storylines, collected all skyshards, and I finished at VR4. It got 3 levels from it. I've gained levels faster in cyrodil since than I did with the silver/gold quests. And even faster in Crag. The xp for completing quests is usually like 3k. Or the same as attacking about 10 monsters in lower crag.

@Bulldog1205‌

Perhaps they are talking full quest completion of all zones unlocked from the silver and gold quest lines + enemies killed etc....doing this in a completionist fashion over the past few days I have completed the VR1 and most of the VR2 zones and gained about 2.5 levels from doing so.

shanersimms_ESO wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

I don't think that is such a simple fix.

What happens to crafting when all gear is normalized to VR1+ (and also presumably potions, food, enchantments, etc.)? What happens to all the materials that are linked to VR levels and consequently to VR zones?

These considerations will form a large part of 1.7. ZOS have said they haven't fully figured out how to do all this for 1.7, let alone bringing some of it forward to 1.6.

Though one thing we do know... 1.6 will introduce VR10 foods, reinforcing the link between food and VR levels instead of removing it!

I fail to see the basis of the argument here. All that would happen is that current VR requirements would be removed from gear, food, enchantments etc. and simply have a blanket "Level 50" or "Veteran" requirement. What is currently VR5 food and pots would be as effective as VR1 food and pots after being normalized.

Crafting tables would have to eventually be reformatted to compensate for the lost levels, but for now, as soon as you get to "Level 50" or "Veteran" tier craftables, they become unlocked as well as all tiers that were originally higher than this level. Again with the plan to remove veteran ranks altogether eventually, these are hurdles that must be cleared regardless and inevitably.

Now I never said it would be a "simple" fix, and I agree there are lots of areas they would have to address, but my response to that is to simply push back 1.6 until those areas have been covered. Being that it isn't even on the PTS yet, I'm guessing pushing it back 3-4 more weeks would be enough time to address your areas of concern without any major harm done.

Oh and VR zones would simply have the level requirements removed. For example in WoW you could go to any zone regardless your level. All they would have to do is make the respective quests for Caldwell's SIlver and Gold that relate to progression inactive to the player who hasn't yet completed the main story in their first faction, for example.

@shanersimms_ESO‌ this crowd doesn't seem to like the idea of delaying 1.6. There is a lot of anticipation, my personal view is that if Zos needs more time to get it right then take more time...I do think there are possible solutions available which do not result in a delay and I (and probably the majority of players) would prefer no needless delays. I agree it is a very complicated matter, something I learned in grad school ... "Everything is simple" you just have to break it down into its most simple pieces and continually simplify until it is understandable.

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Bulldog1205 wrote: »

Why is everyone so obsessed with the silver/gold quests and the xp they gain? I immediately completed both storylines, collected all skyshards, and I finished at VR4. It got 3 levels from it. I've gained levels faster in cyrodil since than I did with the silver/gold quests. And even faster in Crag. The xp for completing quests is usually like 3k. Or the same as attacking about 10 monsters in lower crag.

You gained 3 Veteran levels from doing ALL the Silver and Gold Content? I call shenanigans.

19 zones of quests.

Impossible, you'd be horridly underleveled. You can't even access the Gold content until you finish all the Silver, and you're at least V6 when that happens, even if you're only doing the quest lines required by Cadwell's Almanac.

No way you were killing V7-V10 quest mobs as a V4. Skyshards I could believe, all at V6 or V7 I could believe. But fully completing Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold at V4. Nope.

And there's no way you gained levels faster in Cyrodiil. XP from PvP is absolutely atrocious.

Grinding Craglorn I believe. I've seen V1's and V2's and all the rest in there in grind groups.

Now lets pick apart your handle on how much XP the quests give. Unless you were doing this quests blindly while we were all experiencing the Great VP to XP Debacle of 2014 and without pausing to wonder why everything in the zone in which you were currently questing is 2-6 levels higher than you - your math is completely wrong.

So unless this post was meant to somehow be ironic or witty, you're flat out, unabashedly wrong.

@WraithAzraiel‌ you two are talking different things @Bulldog1205‌ is talking about the actual silver/gold quests you @WraithAzraiel‌ are talking full zone completion of the other two factions.

pete5210b14_ESO wrote: »

pete5210b14_ESO wrote: »

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

So saying a person is a troll is against the rules? Michelle, because a players is crying and acting like a child and causing actual issues to others players is the actual issue, not us others that are trying to teach the "trolls" how to play. And I'm only assuming the OP is the one that flag this, due to acting like a child. I'm not saying he/she is a child, just the actions that person is taking

You know what they say about assumptions? Well it wasn't me Maybe moderators actually read the forums? Maybe Zos is actually interested in this discussion?

Who knows? Not me.

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

I can only speak from my experience. Cadwell's Silver and Gold got me from V6 starting in Deshaan (am Dominion player) to V13. To ding 14 I ran around lower Crag.

No idea why I got 7 levels out of content of which you only received 4.

So why is this 7 levels of content so precious?

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

Joejudas wrote: »

Listen....this forum is a place to express your opinion....but if it's silly and pointless....which most of us think it is then people will tell you it is. I grasp what your saying....and it's silly.

@Joejudas its not right to shut down peoples conversations because you disagree with what they say or because you feel it is silly. That is immature behaviour, BTW 15 CP earned, still feel this is a huge problem. I'll let you know how I feel at VR14....spoiler alert: I will still feel it is a big problem (just because a VR1 sees it doesn't mean it isn't a problem...

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

shanersimms_ESO wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

I would first like to say that while in the previous plan I would have received 30 cp and now I will receive 0 cp the newest CP conversions method by Zos seems to be more fair.

I am however concerned about the double bonus (temporarily) to VR 14 players (or any in the top bracket).

Please keep in mind this is from the view of a VR1 who has subbed since the beginning.

Under the VR system players with higher ranks are allowed much stronger gear compared to those at VR1. This by itself is fine, they progressed their gear and it is rightfully earned and I will suck it up, put on my big boy pants and cope.

Under the CS system the early points are much more valuable than the later points from the models I have read (example: 1.0%, 0.9%, 0.8%...) Due to diminishing returns. This is actually kinda cool as it longterm aims to balance the playing field (mostly). Further the account wide method is really cool and I love it (providing the skills themselves are likable, I am banking they will be).

All of the above is great and wonderful, my concern is just that overlapping the retro compensation with the VR system is way OP.

If I am a VR14, here is how I play this, I put each skill point in separate areas with desirable skills, netting as many 1.0% bonuses as possible which are then stacked on top of my VR14 gear (which is significantly stronger than VR1 gear).

OK so its becoming apparent that the strong get stronger and the weak cannot compete. Let me take it one step further.

Let's suppose the VR1 and VR14 grind exp at the exact same rate and the VR14 is 'forced' to place the next 70 cp into 0.9% increases while the VR1 gets the spiffy 1.0% increases.....you would think that the VR1 would be gaining ground, but this may not be the case since the 0.9% bonus on VR14 gear and with all the extra skill points they have likely acquired is actually much more beneficial than the 1.0% increase is for the VR1. (I admit eventually that same VR1 will level and be able to use VR14 gear....maybe, but in the in between time the VR14 becomes much more powerful (which has the effect of making it much more difficult for the VR1 to gain exp in PvP, and subsequently allows the VR14 to gain exp and thus CP much more rapidly than the VR1).

It is under this logic that I would like to see the CP points awarded for VR ranks (experience) only be awarded once the VR system is completely removed (very 1.7?).

I hope the community agree or at least gives constructive criticism of my views but I half expect to be flamed by VR14's for this suggestion.

Cheers,
A concerned VR1

P.S. Zos I know you guys listen it is evident in all your actions. Please consider this and make the best decision for the game.

I believe the OP has a legitimate concern. There is a very simple fix:

Upon release of the CS, go ahead and normalize all gear VR1+ to a single level 50 equivalent standard. Obviously those of use who have VR14 gear compared to the fresh VR1s would be getting the raw deal, so to compensate you should grant a set number (maybe 5?) CS points per veteran rank the player has achieved upon the release of the CS. (i.e. VR1 gets 5 CS points, VR6 gets 30, VR10 gets 50, VR14 gets 70, etc.)

Even as a player who is sitting close to 13k achieve pts, has played since beta, and has a great number of complete V14 gear sets, I believe this is a fair method upon release of the CS. This method would also foster the normalization process that will eventually have to occur to remove Vet ranks altogether.

No. Champion Points are being awarded in 1.6 TO TEST THE CHAMPION SYSTEM ON A MASSIVE SCALE.

WAITING TO GIVE CP OUT UNTIL VET RANKS GO AWAY RENDERS THE litmus test that is the 3rd stage of a 4 stage implementation - useless.


OP isn't going on about gear, isn't going on about this or that or blah blah blah, they are suggesting* (keyword) that the handing out of Champion Points be postponed until the 4th and final stage of the Champion System introduction - the removal of Veteran Ranks.


There is no information from ZOS on how itemization is going to be handled. How stats are going to be handle. How anything is going to be handled one Veteran Ranks go bye-bye.

They are taking this 1 step at a time.

What the OP is asking for is that they deviate from their 4 step process. Turning it into a 3 stage process and effectively a potential cluster@#$%! of problems for ZOS and their bug-squashing team.


LEAVE IT ALONE.

@WraithAzraiel‌

Nice try but no I am not asking that they deviate from their 4 step process. I am only suggesting that the CP that are from the pre 1.6 play period be postponed till VR is removed any that you earn once CS is live should be usable immediately. Any which Zos want to give us to test with should be given (similar to the 30 cp plan, if that is necessary) but compensation points (those 0-70 points that they freely give in apparent compensation for the player VR ranks) should be delayed until VR is removed (if it is removed).

What I am "Suggesting", as you so aptly put it... Is that giving VR 14 players 70 and VR 13 players 60 and VR2 players 5 and VR1 players 0 CP WHILE VR is active creates a larger power bias than that which is already present and this bias is unfair and inappropriate and will have a negative influence on the community (but a positive benefit, with regards to character strength, on the VR14 subgroup of the community).

This negative effect on the community hurts everyone who subscribes to the game equally. This is this point. The community as a whole suffers if the developer gives benefits to one subgroup over another arbitrarily, because while one subgroup benefits another is hurt an equal amount. This arbitrary hurt to a subgroup breeds dissatisfaction and distaste for the system....over the long haul it is stuff like this which creates holes in the bucket...to many holes and quickly you run out of water...no water ...well no way to put out the fire.

Bulldog1205 wrote: »

Why is everyone so obsessed with the silver/gold quests and the xp they gain? I immediately completed both storylines, collected all skyshards, and I finished at VR4. It got 3 levels from it. I've gained levels faster in cyrodil since than I did with the silver/gold quests. And even faster in Crag. The xp for completing quests is usually like 3k. Or the same as attacking about 10 monsters in lower crag.

@Bulldog1205‌

Perhaps they are talking full quest completion of all zones unlocked from the silver and gold quest lines + enemies killed etc....doing this in a completionist fashion over the past few days I have completed the VR1 and most of the VR2 zones and gained about 2.5 levels from doing so.

shanersimms_ESO wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

I don't think that is such a simple fix.

What happens to crafting when all gear is normalized to VR1+ (and also presumably potions, food, enchantments, etc.)? What happens to all the materials that are linked to VR levels and consequently to VR zones?

These considerations will form a large part of 1.7. ZOS have said they haven't fully figured out how to do all this for 1.7, let alone bringing some of it forward to 1.6.

Though one thing we do know... 1.6 will introduce VR10 foods, reinforcing the link between food and VR levels instead of removing it!

I fail to see the basis of the argument here. All that would happen is that current VR requirements would be removed from gear, food, enchantments etc. and simply have a blanket "Level 50" or "Veteran" requirement. What is currently VR5 food and pots would be as effective as VR1 food and pots after being normalized.

Crafting tables would have to eventually be reformatted to compensate for the lost levels, but for now, as soon as you get to "Level 50" or "Veteran" tier craftables, they become unlocked as well as all tiers that were originally higher than this level. Again with the plan to remove veteran ranks altogether eventually, these are hurdles that must be cleared regardless and inevitably.

Now I never said it would be a "simple" fix, and I agree there are lots of areas they would have to address, but my response to that is to simply push back 1.6 until those areas have been covered. Being that it isn't even on the PTS yet, I'm guessing pushing it back 3-4 more weeks would be enough time to address your areas of concern without any major harm done.

Oh and VR zones would simply have the level requirements removed. For example in WoW you could go to any zone regardless your level. All they would have to do is make the respective quests for Caldwell's SIlver and Gold that relate to progression inactive to the player who hasn't yet completed the main story in their first faction, for example.

@shanersimms_ESO‌ this crowd doesn't seem to like the idea of delaying 1.6. There is a lot of anticipation, my personal view is that if Zos needs more time to get it right then take more time...I do think there are possible solutions available which do not result in a delay and I (and probably the majority of players) would prefer no needless delays. I agree it is a very complicated matter, something I learned in grad school ... "Everything is simple" you just have to break it down into its most simple pieces and continually simplify until it is understandable.

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Bulldog1205 wrote: »

Why is everyone so obsessed with the silver/gold quests and the xp they gain? I immediately completed both storylines, collected all skyshards, and I finished at VR4. It got 3 levels from it. I've gained levels faster in cyrodil since than I did with the silver/gold quests. And even faster in Crag. The xp for completing quests is usually like 3k. Or the same as attacking about 10 monsters in lower crag.

You gained 3 Veteran levels from doing ALL the Silver and Gold Content? I call shenanigans.

19 zones of quests.

Impossible, you'd be horridly underleveled. You can't even access the Gold content until you finish all the Silver, and you're at least V6 when that happens, even if you're only doing the quest lines required by Cadwell's Almanac.

No way you were killing V7-V10 quest mobs as a V4. Skyshards I could believe, all at V6 or V7 I could believe. But fully completing Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold at V4. Nope.

And there's no way you gained levels faster in Cyrodiil. XP from PvP is absolutely atrocious.

Grinding Craglorn I believe. I've seen V1's and V2's and all the rest in there in grind groups.

Now lets pick apart your handle on how much XP the quests give. Unless you were doing this quests blindly while we were all experiencing the Great VP to XP Debacle of 2014 and without pausing to wonder why everything in the zone in which you were currently questing is 2-6 levels higher than you - your math is completely wrong.

So unless this post was meant to somehow be ironic or witty, you're flat out, unabashedly wrong.

@WraithAzraiel‌ you two are talking different things @Bulldog1205‌ is talking about the actual silver/gold quests you @WraithAzraiel‌ are talking full zone completion of the other two factions.

pete5210b14_ESO wrote: »

pete5210b14_ESO wrote: »

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

So saying a person is a troll is against the rules? Michelle, because a players is crying and acting like a child and causing actual issues to others players is the actual issue, not us others that are trying to teach the "trolls" how to play. And I'm only assuming the OP is the one that flag this, due to acting like a child. I'm not saying he/she is a child, just the actions that person is taking

You know what they say about assumptions? Well it wasn't me Maybe moderators actually read the forums? Maybe Zos is actually interested in this discussion?

Who knows? Not me.

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

I can only speak from my experience. Cadwell's Silver and Gold got me from V6 starting in Deshaan (am Dominion player) to V13. To ding 14 I ran around lower Crag.

No idea why I got 7 levels out of content of which you only received 4.

So why is this 7 levels of content so precious?

Negative. After Deshaan, I only did the required quests in Cadwell's Almanac. But this was WELL before the Great VP to XP Conversion Debacle of 2014. Back when you could get a Veteran level and then some for completing a whole zone in it's entirety.


Look pal, I get it. You want a balanced and even playing field. You don't want a giant disparity between veterans and fresh players. Admirable, but if the Champion System works as I believe it will, the disparity won't be astronomical.

For instance, take 2 V14's give one of them 70 CP and the other say 30. Only the first few points spent in each line of passives will count the most, I believe they said it'd be a whole 1% increase to whatever stat. After that, it's basically diminishing returns.

No one knows how powerful it's going to be, hence why they should launch it now (in 1.6) so it can be tweaked.

If it's too overpowered? Damn, then I guess they have to dial it back. If there's no discernible difference? Then I guess they'll have to crank it up.


That's the point of it's launch with 1.6. It's not some ulterior motive to finally reward those who spent the time to do this or do that.

It's to test a system that's built around EQUAL OPPORTUNITY. Everyone that plays will have the same max amount of Champion Points to acquire. Everyone that plays will take the same amount of play time to acquire said points, some will take even less time with the Enlightment system.

Pushing it back to the removal of Veteran Ranks serves no purpose other than to create the illusion of an even playing field.

Also stop digging into my conversations with other individuals on this thread in order to find something even minutely insulting. Rise above.

Granted they were a tangent and not at all adherent to your thread but they were in no way aimed at or had anything to do with you. Those remarks were for that individual to quote and discussed, not for you to try to use as ammunition.

Pushing the bonus does not create an illusion, it keeps the bonus (read: compensation for VR) from doubling up with the actual VR. This is by definition double dipping you get the VR benefits and then you get additional benefit for that VR .....by only giving the bonus after what it is supposed to compensate for is removed is the way to maintain an equal playing field at all times......if not then the time where the bonus and the VR gear overlap provide additional skewing of the system....yeah at the end when people have 1000 CP then 70 CP won't make much difference is probably true, but to give some players 70 * 1% bonuses while weaker players get 0 bonuses ....you can try to play down how small an edge this is but any edge against no edge is absolutely better.....

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

I can only speak from my experience. Cadwell's Silver and Gold got me from V6 starting in Deshaan (am Dominion player) to V13. To ding 14 I ran around lower Crag.

No idea why I got 7 levels out of content of which you only received 4.

That's because he only did the bare minimum to get through cadwell's silver and gold (if he did actually solo it 100% of the way) maybe a few quests here and there, but there's no way he did all the quests in every zone to only get to V4. I did all the quests I could reasonably wander into and was v13 when I finished Cadwell's Gold. You're assessment, @WraithAzraiel‌, is correct according to my experience.

@WraithAzraiel‌ OK so let me give a different perspective....

We agree that we have differing opinions, we also agree that my scenario is plausible you, just as I suppose yours is plausible to me (like 0.01% chance). Both sides have a fair number of supporters. Whenever there is disagreement which may have negative consequences it is wise to take a conservative approach. In order to do this we must examine the realm of possibilities.

Here are the possibilities as I see them:

First Zos can take (for simplicity sake) two actions
1) They can give CP when CS is introduced to compensate for the loss of VR

or

2) They can give CP once VR is removed to compensate for the loss of VR

and under each of these scenarios there are (for simplicity sake) two outcomes

1A) Zos takes action 1, and my opponents are correct and there is no impact

1B) Zos takes action 1 and I am correct and (taking the worst case scenario) it fatally ruins the community

2A) Zos takes action 2, and my opponents are correct and it doesn't make a difference (except that there is a slight delay when the most powerful players in the game receive their buff)

2B) Zos takes action 2 and I am right the system is more balanced and fair everyone is happy and the community is saved.

*note: all of these options are in reality on a sliding scale and the actual outcome is likely between one extreme or the other.

Now of all of these choices and outcomes there is only one which is absolutely horrible. This is 1B where the community is negatively impacted in a severe way. The remaining outcomes are either no impact (1A), positive impact (2B) or minor inconvience (2A)

So to continue the evaluation

Choice 1 - results in either no effect or catastrophe (or more likely something in-between)
Choice 2 - results in either saving the community from catastrophe or a minor inconvenience (or again more likely something in-between)

So Catastrophe (1B) vs Averting Catastrophe (2A)

and No Effect (1A) vs Minor Inconvenience (2B)

Personally my vote is for Averting Catastrophe (2A) to minor Inconvenience (2B) - Zos Choice 2

instead of

Catastrophe (1B) to No effect (1A) - Zos Choice 1

The only reasonable solution is to choose choice 2 and be conservative and delay the bonus CP.

We'll see. If they muck it up, they'll unmuck it.

Personally I just want to be closer to the Thieves Guild being released.

Ok so as promised I am working on VR to hit VR14 and still maintain my belief...here is the progress report,

Currently I am VR 9 and now get 40 CP (at this time I gain more than with the previous system) I still maintain that there should be a delay and I should not receive my compensation CP until VR system is removed. This is despite the fact that I would benefit from more from receiving the CP sooner....the system is biased against the smaller players and that is wrong....I will continue to proGres towards 70 CP, probably getting there before 1.6 hits pts and I still maintain my belief.

Just dinged VR13 and I still maintain that we should not receive the CP until VR system is removed.

I think you guys are smoking crack if you think it will be less than 1 million xp.

my guild member earned 2 million xp in just over 3 hours grinding. seriously, @ 100k he will max out in less then 2 weeks. Eric Wrobul said it should take a long time to get them all. if anyone thinks you will see anyone maxed in less than 2 months, your crazy. if they are then this champion system is crap for letting US do it.