Sword and Board: The new mandatory

Agrippa_Invisus · January 2015

Liea wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

The only issue I see with balance in a game is that people had the taste of power and will cause an uproar if it is revoked. Just look at the reflective scales issue. They went from infinite reflections to only 4.....and they are PISSED. Vampires are getting a pass over to make them more balanced, people are pissed. Ultimates, bringing them down to make them actually feel ultimate and people are pissed (no longer is it just another skill).

I am all for balance, rift had it right with how they balanced the game. ESO, sadly, does not seem like they get the concept of balance. They say they want balance but clearly they dont know what that means. Maybe 1.6 will bring us more in line with balance. Maybe 1.6 is the balance they wish to have?

Yes, this happened in Rift, too, when the re-balance took place: lots of uproar and rage quitting players. But in the end it proved the right way to go as the majority of players was very happy with the outcome. I wish Zenimax had the guts to see a shift to balance through to the end, because I believe most players will in the end appreciate the move.

Speaking as a DK --

The balance of this game badly needs re-adjustment in 1.6 and some hard, hard nerfs are going to have to come down across the board. If the day of the Light Armor wearing shield bearing DK ubertank ends with 1.6, it will not be soon enough, to be honest.

The current balance state of the game, while better in 1.5 than it has been, is laughably bad. Being better than 1.1 or 1.2 balance is such a low bar to clear, you can't see the bar for it being underground.

Gorthax · January 2015

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Liea wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

The only issue I see with balance in a game is that people had the taste of power and will cause an uproar if it is revoked. Just look at the reflective scales issue. They went from infinite reflections to only 4.....and they are PISSED. Vampires are getting a pass over to make them more balanced, people are pissed. Ultimates, bringing them down to make them actually feel ultimate and people are pissed (no longer is it just another skill).

I am all for balance, rift had it right with how they balanced the game. ESO, sadly, does not seem like they get the concept of balance. They say they want balance but clearly they dont know what that means. Maybe 1.6 will bring us more in line with balance. Maybe 1.6 is the balance they wish to have?

Yes, this happened in Rift, too, when the re-balance took place: lots of uproar and rage quitting players. But in the end it proved the right way to go as the majority of players was very happy with the outcome. I wish Zenimax had the guts to see a shift to balance through to the end, because I believe most players will in the end appreciate the move.

Speaking as a DK --

The balance of this game badly needs re-adjustment in 1.6 and some hard, hard nerfs are going to have to come down across the board. If the day of the Light Armor wearing shield bearing DK ubertank ends with 1.6, it will not be soon enough, to be honest.

The current balance state of the game, while better in 1.5 than it has been, is laughably bad. Being better than 1.1 or 1.2 balance is such a low bar to clear, you can't see the bar for it being underground.

I greatly thank you for that comment lol I do believe (and I am probably wrong) that you are the first person to admit that DK are seriously over powered (who plays a DK). Every other DK says "we are fine dont nerf us!!!! QQ L2P SCRUBS!"

So thank you @Agrippa_Invisus‌

EDIT: The combo in question to be exact! DK are fine ,to a degree, its just some things really need to be adjusted.

yodased · January 2015

Well that's not true. Plenty of people have acknowledged that DKs are significantly stronger than other classes.

In fact, I would go so far as to say its accepted fact by the majority of the playerbase that it goes DK->NB->TP->SC in terms of basic class strengths.

NB and TP can be switched if you are talking specifics like healing, but the above is pretty much how it goes.

This turned into an anti-DK thing here and I'm not sure why, I get it that the LA S+S DK is the FoTY, but this is a topic of S+S not DK right?

Gorthax · January 2015

Yes lol but it is what it is, somewhere down the line it turned into a DK thing. Much like every other thread gets derailed at some point. Stuff happens and you just go with it :P I am surprised NBs have not chimed in with their 2 cents as of yet :P Actually I am surprised this thread is still going.

People have acknowledged it yes, but no DK has ever come out and said that the combo in question was far to strong. Those who did (non DK) were told to stop QQ'ing, L2P, or told they are scrubs, noobs, pugs, etc etc. That is what I was thanking him for

Even said it in my edit sir yoda ^_^

Again, I did say as far as I know. Maybe someone else has and I never seen it. Who knows lol stuff happens and I am far too lazy to read a lot of threads and just skim them instead.

Shunravi · January 2015

Gorthax wrote: »

Yes lol but it is what it is, somewhere down the line it turned into a DK thing. Much like every other thread gets derailed at some point. Stuff happens and you just go with it :P I am surprised NBs have not chimed in with their 2 cents as of yet :P Actually I am surprised this thread is still going.

People have acknowledged it yes, but no DK has ever come out and said that the combo in question was far to strong. Those who did (non DK) were told to stop QQ'ing, L2P, or told they are scrubs, noobs, pugs, etc etc. That is what I was thanking him for Even said it in my edit sir yoda ^_^

Again, I did say as far as I know. Maybe someone else has and I never seen it. Who knows lol stuff happens and I am far too lazy to read a lot of threads and just skim them instead.

Well, if you really want me to, I could hijack this...

Agrippa_Invisus · January 2015

Hahahah.

No need to thank me, but I do appreciate it.

It's no so much the DK class, though their sustainability abilities certainly contribute, but how the whole mess of S/B + Light Armor + DK rolls into one nasty, OP mess.

Gorthax · January 2015

Well to be fair they do surpass other class with that combo, but anyone can grab a sword and shield and become a bad ass in pvp :P

Durham · January 2015

Poxheart wrote: »

ads1 wrote: »

I agree with the block casting, most stupid thing in the game

Eliminating block casting would require Zenimax to completely rework tanking in PvE and I just don't see that happening.

Plus... 135425626626 bow users in PvP would be op as crap... PvP is bowville at

Agrippa_Invisus · January 2015

Durham wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

ads1 wrote: »

I agree with the block casting, most stupid thing in the game

Eliminating block casting would require Zenimax to completely rework tanking in PvE and I just don't see that happening.

Plus... 135425626626 bow users in PvP would be op as crap... PvP is bowville at

Just make certain, key abilities (like taunts) usable while blocking so tanks could still taunt. They're already going to have to break out of block to light attack to build ultimate with the new system coming in 1.6.

Then make everything else disabled while blocking.

frozywozy · January 2015

Once again, for all the sorcs who QQ about S&B being the only counter to S&B, that is not true. If you want a real counter, you should try 2hand / resto. Streak / Critical Charge / Curse combo drains the stamina really fast.

I have dueled many experienced players spec properly, with my S&B DK and there is no way I could beat them.

If I dare to go offensive, I die in 10-15 seconds.
If I focus on survivability, I can last 45 seconds top.

Gorthax · January 2015

frozywozy wrote: »

Once again, for all the sorcs who QQ about S&B being the only counter to S&B, that is not true. If you want a real counter, you should try 2hand / resto. Streak / Critical Charge / Curse combo drains the stamina really fast.

I have dueled many experienced players spec properly, with my S&B DK and there is no way I could beat them.

If I dare to go offensive, I die in 10-15 seconds.
If I focus on survivability, I can last 45 seconds top.

curse doesnt do nothing for stamina sorry. Most DKs will laugh at the damage and heal through it(only said DK because that is what you said you are). Streak cost way to much to try to break their stamina down that way and if they are blocking (which lets be honest most block cast) they wont get stunned.

you must be fighting people who dont block cast/perma block. I must find out where said people are!

frozywozy · January 2015

Gorthax wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Once again, for all the sorcs who QQ about S&B being the only counter to S&B, that is not true. If you want a real counter, you should try 2hand / resto. Streak / Critical Charge / Curse combo drains the stamina really fast.

I have dueled many experienced players spec properly, with my S&B DK and there is no way I could beat them.

If I dare to go offensive, I die in 10-15 seconds.
If I focus on survivability, I can last 45 seconds top.

curse doesnt do nothing for stamina sorry. Most DKs will laugh at the damage and heal through it(only said DK because that is what you said you are). Streak cost way to much to try to break their stamina down that way and if they are blocking (which lets be honest most block cast) they wont get stunned.

you must be fighting people who dont block cast/perma block. I must find out where said people are!

I am the DK and I am the one fighting the 2handed/resto sorcs and they own me even holding block. The build is just not very popular but it is very effective.

There is a split second where streak can still stun you during a weapon swap and a good sorc can manage to do it without too much troubles.

As a DK, you have to weapon swap alot so the chances to get stunned mid swap are larger than you can imagine.

Anyway, the main goal of streak is to teleport right away after being charged by the DK. a Sorc can spam streak much longer than a DK can spam invasion / shielded assault, believe it or not.

If the DK cannot be in range of the sorc, he will waste most of his stamina using his gap closer, and then he will die.

On a 7/7 LA impen/spell res soft cap full legendary gear/enchants holding block:

Velocious Curse : 450dmg
Streak : 550dmg
Critical Charge : 950dmg

GGWP

Gorthax · January 2015

I have never ran into a DK(or anyone) that I could streak through or away from when being charged. It always hits you. Nor have I ever been able to stun someone while weapon swapping.

Also, streak does NOT do 550 dmg lol if it did I would be streaking through people until my magicka was gone and they were dead. Velocious curse is about 575 for me and even then it is a timed thing that anyone can break or take the damage. Since most people shield stack the shields absorb said damage. So how someone buffed streak damage I do not know.

frozywozy · January 2015

Gorthax wrote: »

I have never ran into a DK(or anyone) that I could streak through or away from when being charged. It always hits you. Nor have I ever been able to stun someone while weapon swapping.

Also, streak does NOT do 550 dmg lol if it did I would be streaking through people until my magicka was gone and they were dead. Velocious curse is about 575 for me and even then it is a timed thing that anyone can break or take the damage. Since most people shield stack the shields absorb said damage. So how someone buffed streak damage I do not know.

Any class skill is based off spell damage.

You may be right though.

I probably reversed the damage of Velocious curse and Streak.

Streak should be 450dmg and Velocious curse 550dmg.

I have already seen streak hitting for 550 damage though.

*cough Pixystick*

And I never said that you could streak away when being charged. You changed my words. I said that you could get away after the charge, forcing the S&B player to charge you again, until he runs out of stamina.

Gorthax · January 2015

no crap.....I have over soft cap spell damage and it is NOT 550 damage lol

Xsorus · January 2015

Gorthax wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

p-biggipreeb18_ESO wrote: »

"You can play as you want" was the biggest lie i´ve ever heard in an mmmo! ***** YOU ZENIMAX! F*********************K YOU!

Im NOT gonna do this anymore. i restarted game 1-2 weeks ago. There is nearly no change since release.

Shields still op.

Only effective Weapons: Shield and Restoration Staff

This was the last MMORPG i started to play. Always just lies and lies and we idiots pay for it, hoping it get better.

NO THX!

You can play the way you want...Will it be effective is another story.

Also every weapon has its place..Just because you've not figured it out doesn't mean it isn't so

oh really? Tell me more about this theory of yours because all I ever see in pvp is Sword and Shield and bows. Staffs once in a while (outside of the healers of course and even then they still use sword and board if templar) a long with random other weapons but very rarely. I myself refuse to use sword and board simply because

A ) Melee is NOT my play style (i dont even use bows *barfs*)and I should not be forced to use it just to survive via block casting and damn near perma block.

B ) I do not agree with the crazy block reduction from it nor the reduced block cost from it which leads into perma blocking, NOR do I agree with it blocking in general blocking a ULTIMATE, you know those things that are supposed to feel, whats the word, ULTIMATE!

They need to give us more ways of countering it. Ice should have the bonus effect of snaring enemies and draining stamina AFTER block cost has been calculated. It should not be allowed to be reduced either. Much like other ES games.

If you argue that this is not the way to go (without nerfing the "set up") then you are simply wanting no ways to be countered outside of someone else picking up sword and board or rolling a NB(which you can still block while feared). As it sits right now something seriously needs to happen.

Lets see

1 Handed/Shield/Bow/Staff are all common setups, Pretty much if you're running any type of caster build you're going to have Either a Restro Staff or a Destro Staff for Crushing Shock.

2 Hander is Common in certain builds dealing with Sorcs/Templars (and a lesser extent Nightblades)

Dual Wield is common simply for the damage bonus it gives to most nightblades and you'll see it used in some of the heavy AOE nightblade builds (its less common on DK's/Sorcs/Templars as DK's usually can't run it because you need 1 Range Weapon usually on a DK, and your other weapon has to be either a 1handed/shield or two hander for the Charge...Sorcs and Templars generally prefer 2 hander for that type of build)

Also Blocking While Feared will cause you to lose stamina as they're going to beat on ya (plus you'll not get immunity to fear) so you're pretty much forced to break it.

RinaldoGandolphi · January 2015

I find restraining prison to be very good against block casters, either they:

Roll out using stamina and are stuck with a 6.6 second snare after rolling out.

They stay in it for 5.4 secs and are still snared for 6.6 seconds after the root expires, and during that time you can spam the aoe of your choice that they can't block.

Roots were put in this game to counter blocking, dragonknights spam talons to force you into burning stamina, sorcs can do the same. I'm not sure if other classes have roots, but destro staff destructive touch with an ice staff is a single target root that does good damage is an option as well.

I will say though, I don't think you should be able to use skills other the taunts while holding block, it really doesn't make much sense. I'm sure they will address this in a future update though.

Cody · January 2015

Domander wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Ras_Alghul wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

They need to remove the reduction in block costs from the 1h/Shield line and move them into the Heavy Armor line. Make it so someone in full HA w/ 1h+Shield has the same costs as current, but the pajama wearing masses can't block for bupkiss.

Shhhhhh! You're going to ruin Christmas for everyone!

It's time that being in pajamas came with the drawback that it's supposed to have -- survivability.

You want good magicka management AND good damage bonuses? Then suffer being squishy. I'm beyond tired of people in LA doing the most damage and being the best tanks. The balance in this game is awful.

That's the thing, I never understood how someone wearing a dress ISN'T a glass cannon.

Do you guys realize how squishy someone in light armor is to physical damage? (that isn't blocking, and without a damage shield)

I don't think you do.

also glass cannon kind of refers to being all offense and no defense, someone in light armor that has no heals/shields will go squish.

Medium and heavy will too, though heavy will last a little longer.

people in light armor should not be tanking: either in PvP or PvE.

oh, I see, players in heavy armor shouldn't be doing damage then. (this statement is as silly as the above about light armor)

Armor is only a small part of "tanking" and you can tank well in any armor you want if you build right.

active defense (abilities) vs passive (always on) defense ... you think passive defense should be better? I don't.

The next update should make more armor more useful though.

I cannot agree with anyone that thinks people in Light armor should be able to have the high defense they do now, given the fact Light armor already has high offense as well. I will not waste time explaining to you exactly why the armor imbalance is as it is, because I am sure you already know why, as you have played just as much as I have.

All I will say is that I hope the Champion system evens these issues out so these types of discussions no longer need to be had.

I am shutting up before this turns into a page long argument

Mojomonkeyman · January 2015

frozywozy wrote: »

Once again, for all the sorcs who QQ about S&B being the only counter to S&B, that is not true. If you want a real counter, you should try 2hand / resto. Streak / Critical Charge / Curse combo drains the stamina really fast.

I have dueled many experienced players spec properly, with my S&B DK and there is no way I could beat them.

If I dare to go offensive, I die in 10-15 seconds.
If I focus on survivability, I can last 45 seconds top.

Your DK skills must be underdeveloped.

Said combo costs the sorc around 450 Magicka and 200 Stam for the first use at least, in 7/7 light. If you want to pressure you have to repeat it in short sequence, means streak will cost double and no magicka regen for 4 seconds. So we are at 700 Magicka and 200 Stam for the follow up combo.

With s&b and def stance/absorb on bar you pay around a 100 stam per block without block reduc rings. So the first time the combo hits you trade 300 stam for 450 Mag and 200 stam - you win. Follow up combo you win by an even larger margin ressourcewise.

A full light sorc`s stam pool rarely exceeds 1.6k. Nonetheless he also has to waste stam offensively to pressure you and additionally pays a higher price for blocking than you do with s&b. Let`s say we go another route and assume the sorc is wearing some medium pieces to reduce the crit charge cost, his magicka expenses increase dramatically (5l/2m: 600 Magicka & 180 Stam first combo, 950 Magicka & 180 Stam follow up). Since streak is essential to put on pressure, he would be out of magicka within seconds going full pressure mode.

If your stam pool and stam regen have decent values as s&b dk and if you know how to abuse cinderstorm to make the light/heavy weaves miss after charge, there is no chance the sorc can keep the pressure up.

You shouldn`t even be in need to pop GDB before the sorc has to switch resto to regain ressources. The damage done by unblockable curse 450 every 4 secs is a joke. 50 HP regen and Mutagen ticks alone neglect that damage almost completely. Damage shields and stuff not even accounted for.

Yawn, I seriously doubt you and the sorc were as experienced as you think.

frozywozy · January 2015

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Once again, for all the sorcs who QQ about S&B being the only counter to S&B, that is not true. If you want a real counter, you should try 2hand / resto. Streak / Critical Charge / Curse combo drains the stamina really fast.

I have dueled many experienced players spec properly, with my S&B DK and there is no way I could beat them.

If I dare to go offensive, I die in 10-15 seconds.
If I focus on survivability, I can last 45 seconds top.

Your DK skills must be underdeveloped.

Said combo costs the sorc around 450 Magicka and 200 Stam for the first use at least, in 7/7 light. If you want to pressure you have to repeat it in short sequence, means streak will cost double and no magicka regen for 4 seconds. So we are at 700 Magicka and 200 Stam for the follow up combo.

With s&b and def stance/absorb on bar you pay around a 100 stam per block without block reduc rings. So the first time the combo hits you trade 300 stam for 450 Mag and 200 stam - you win. Follow up combo you win by an even larger margin ressourcewise.

A full light sorc`s stam pool rarely exceeds 1.6k. Nonetheless he also has to waste stam offensively to pressure you and additionally pays a higher price for blocking than you do with s&b. Let`s say we go another route and assume the sorc is wearing some medium pieces to reduce the crit charge cost, his magicka expenses increase dramatically (5l/2m: 600 Magicka & 180 Stam first combo, 950 Magicka & 180 Stam follow up). Since streak is essential to put on pressure, he would be out of magicka within seconds going full pressure mode.

If your stam pool and stam regen have decent values as s&b dk and if you know how to abuse cinderstorm to make the light/heavy weaves miss after charge, there is no chance the sorc can keep the pressure up.

You shouldn`t even be in need to pop GDB before the sorc has to switch resto to regain ressources. The damage done by unblockable curse 450 every 4 secs is a joke. 50 HP regen and Mutagen ticks alone neglect that damage almost completely. Damage shields and stuff not even accounted for.

Yawn, I seriously doubt you and the sorc were as experienced as you think.

There is always a counter to everything so you are not prouving anything by saying that there is a way to kill that sorc. Of course it is possible, because everything has a hard counter.

First of all, I am not resto, I am S&B + Destro. Second, I don't use Cinder Storm. Third, did I mention that Critical Charge hits for 950dmg even if I hold block? 950dmg. So if I dare to go offensive and forget to refresh Igneous Shield only one second, I'm screwed.

Another point, it is very easy for a sorc to stun a DK by streaking. A DK has to constantly weapon swap and it happens very often that I get caught off guard. If I get stunned by streak, I MUST cc break it otherwise I'm dead. That's already alot of stamina spent right there.

Once again, if you don't believe me, I challenge you to duel Skaffa ingame and talk to me about it after.

I'm not really in theory crafting so you kinda lost me with all your numbers. On the other side, I know how and when to use my abilities to be efficient and I have a good situation awareness in general. I have several recordings of me killing multiple vr14s in the same battle 1vX so I would not consider myself an unexperienced player.

Derra · January 2015

frozywozy wrote: »

Once again, for all the sorcs who QQ about S&B being the only counter to S&B, that is not true. If you want a real counter, you should try 2hand / resto. Streak / Critical Charge / Curse combo drains the stamina really fast.

I have dueled many experienced players spec properly, with my S&B DK and there is no way I could beat them.

If I dare to go offensive, I die in 10-15 seconds.
If I focus on survivability, I can last 45 seconds top.

From a dueling only point of view this might (or might not as someone above stated - i have to admit having trouble believing this without blaming it on bad play on the dks side) be true. The problem is the inability to fight open field with builds like these.

Mojomonkeyman · January 2015

frozywozy wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Once again, for all the sorcs who QQ about S&B being the only counter to S&B, that is not true. If you want a real counter, you should try 2hand / resto. Streak / Critical Charge / Curse combo drains the stamina really fast.

I have dueled many experienced players spec properly, with my S&B DK and there is no way I could beat them.

If I dare to go offensive, I die in 10-15 seconds.
If I focus on survivability, I can last 45 seconds top.

Your DK skills must be underdeveloped.

Said combo costs the sorc around 450 Magicka and 200 Stam for the first use at least, in 7/7 light. If you want to pressure you have to repeat it in short sequence, means streak will cost double and no magicka regen for 4 seconds. So we are at 700 Magicka and 200 Stam for the follow up combo.

With s&b and def stance/absorb on bar you pay around a 100 stam per block without block reduc rings. So the first time the combo hits you trade 300 stam for 450 Mag and 200 stam - you win. Follow up combo you win by an even larger margin ressourcewise.

A full light sorc`s stam pool rarely exceeds 1.6k. Nonetheless he also has to waste stam offensively to pressure you and additionally pays a higher price for blocking than you do with s&b. Let`s say we go another route and assume the sorc is wearing some medium pieces to reduce the crit charge cost, his magicka expenses increase dramatically (5l/2m: 600 Magicka & 180 Stam first combo, 950 Magicka & 180 Stam follow up). Since streak is essential to put on pressure, he would be out of magicka within seconds going full pressure mode.

If your stam pool and stam regen have decent values as s&b dk and if you know how to abuse cinderstorm to make the light/heavy weaves miss after charge, there is no chance the sorc can keep the pressure up.

You shouldn`t even be in need to pop GDB before the sorc has to switch resto to regain ressources. The damage done by unblockable curse 450 every 4 secs is a joke. 50 HP regen and Mutagen ticks alone neglect that damage almost completely. Damage shields and stuff not even accounted for.

Yawn, I seriously doubt you and the sorc were as experienced as you think.

There is always a counter to everything so you are not prouving anything by saying that there is a way to kill that sorc. Of course it is possible, because everything has a hard counter.

First of all, I am not resto, I am S&B + Destro. Second, I don't use Cinder Storm. Third, did I mention that Critical Charge hits for 950dmg even if I hold block? 950dmg. So if I dare to go offensive and forget to refresh Igneous Shield only one second, I'm screwed.

Another point, it is very easy for a sorc to stun a DK by streaking. A DK has to constantly weapon swap and it happens very often that I get caught off guard. If I get stunned by streak, I MUST cc break it otherwise I'm dead. That's already alot of stamina spent right there.

Once again, if you don't believe me, I challenge you to duel Skaffa ingame and talk to me about it after.

I'm not really in theory crafting so you kinda lost me with all your numbers. On the other side, I know how and when to use my abilities to be efficient and I have a good situation awareness in general. I have several recordings of me killing multiple vr14s in the same battle 1vX so I would not consider myself an unexperienced player.

Oh wow, you are a DK that has a video killing multiple v14s? That`s all the proof I need, I see now I was totally wrong, sensei. How dare I questioning you...

Silly me.

Derra · January 2015

frozywozy wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Once again, for all the sorcs who QQ about S&B being the only counter to S&B, that is not true. If you want a real counter, you should try 2hand / resto. Streak / Critical Charge / Curse combo drains the stamina really fast.

I have dueled many experienced players spec properly, with my S&B DK and there is no way I could beat them.

If I dare to go offensive, I die in 10-15 seconds.
If I focus on survivability, I can last 45 seconds top.

Your DK skills must be underdeveloped.

Said combo costs the sorc around 450 Magicka and 200 Stam for the first use at least, in 7/7 light. If you want to pressure you have to repeat it in short sequence, means streak will cost double and no magicka regen for 4 seconds. So we are at 700 Magicka and 200 Stam for the follow up combo.

With s&b and def stance/absorb on bar you pay around a 100 stam per block without block reduc rings. So the first time the combo hits you trade 300 stam for 450 Mag and 200 stam - you win. Follow up combo you win by an even larger margin ressourcewise.

A full light sorc`s stam pool rarely exceeds 1.6k. Nonetheless he also has to waste stam offensively to pressure you and additionally pays a higher price for blocking than you do with s&b. Let`s say we go another route and assume the sorc is wearing some medium pieces to reduce the crit charge cost, his magicka expenses increase dramatically (5l/2m: 600 Magicka & 180 Stam first combo, 950 Magicka & 180 Stam follow up). Since streak is essential to put on pressure, he would be out of magicka within seconds going full pressure mode.

If your stam pool and stam regen have decent values as s&b dk and if you know how to abuse cinderstorm to make the light/heavy weaves miss after charge, there is no chance the sorc can keep the pressure up.

You shouldn`t even be in need to pop GDB before the sorc has to switch resto to regain ressources. The damage done by unblockable curse 450 every 4 secs is a joke. 50 HP regen and Mutagen ticks alone neglect that damage almost completely. Damage shields and stuff not even accounted for.

Yawn, I seriously doubt you and the sorc were as experienced as you think.

There is always a counter to everything so you are not prouving anything by saying that there is a way to kill that sorc. Of course it is possible, because everything has a hard counter.

First of all, I am not resto, I am S&B + Destro. Second, I don't use Cinder Storm. Third, did I mention that Critical Charge hits for 950dmg even if I hold block? 950dmg. So if I dare to go offensive and forget to refresh Igneous Shield only one second, I'm screwed.

Well obviously you are not as good as you think. Critical Charge will never ever hit you for 950 dmg if you hold block and are actually blocking (note there is a bug where your char displays the animation but you don´t actually block).
Why is that? Because you can not score a critical hit on block. If it hits you for 500 that would be much. It still won´t because you block and the dmg is reduced.
Please stop making up numbers out of your head or atleast do yourself and us the favor to actually make up numbers that make some kind of sense.

I´m sorry to say this is a classic user error on your part.

Edit: Btw you can´t crit on shields either.

frozywozy · January 2015

Allright I'm a very bad DK and I make up numbers. For the other sorcs who are curious about how to kill a S&B DK, you can whisper me ingame and I will be glad to provide some guidance with my friend Skaffa who has a sorc on the AD side spec properly.

Have a good day.

risen1981 · January 2015

Alright here is my cents since some of you started to call out that it is the DK that is so OP...

I'm a DK... heavy armor...stamina build and a 2 hander in both tool bars... and i sure as hell do NOT feel OP.... just sayin...

Cody · January 2015

frozywozy wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Once again, for all the sorcs who QQ about S&B being the only counter to S&B, that is not true. If you want a real counter, you should try 2hand / resto. Streak / Critical Charge / Curse combo drains the stamina really fast.

I have dueled many experienced players spec properly, with my S&B DK and there is no way I could beat them.

If I dare to go offensive, I die in 10-15 seconds.
If I focus on survivability, I can last 45 seconds top.

Your DK skills must be underdeveloped.

Said combo costs the sorc around 450 Magicka and 200 Stam for the first use at least, in 7/7 light. If you want to pressure you have to repeat it in short sequence, means streak will cost double and no magicka regen for 4 seconds. So we are at 700 Magicka and 200 Stam for the follow up combo.

With s&b and def stance/absorb on bar you pay around a 100 stam per block without block reduc rings. So the first time the combo hits you trade 300 stam for 450 Mag and 200 stam - you win. Follow up combo you win by an even larger margin ressourcewise.

A full light sorc`s stam pool rarely exceeds 1.6k. Nonetheless he also has to waste stam offensively to pressure you and additionally pays a higher price for blocking than you do with s&b. Let`s say we go another route and assume the sorc is wearing some medium pieces to reduce the crit charge cost, his magicka expenses increase dramatically (5l/2m: 600 Magicka & 180 Stam first combo, 950 Magicka & 180 Stam follow up). Since streak is essential to put on pressure, he would be out of magicka within seconds going full pressure mode.

If your stam pool and stam regen have decent values as s&b dk and if you know how to abuse cinderstorm to make the light/heavy weaves miss after charge, there is no chance the sorc can keep the pressure up.

You shouldn`t even be in need to pop GDB before the sorc has to switch resto to regain ressources. The damage done by unblockable curse 450 every 4 secs is a joke. 50 HP regen and Mutagen ticks alone neglect that damage almost completely. Damage shields and stuff not even accounted for.

Yawn, I seriously doubt you and the sorc were as experienced as you think.

There is always a counter to everything so you are not prouving anything by saying that there is a way to kill that sorc. Of course it is possible, because everything has a hard counter.

First of all, I am not resto, I am S&B + Destro. Second, I don't use Cinder Storm. Third, did I mention that Critical Charge hits for 950dmg even if I hold block? 950dmg. So if I dare to go offensive and forget to refresh Igneous Shield only one second, I'm screwed.

Another point, it is very easy for a sorc to stun a DK by streaking. A DK has to constantly weapon swap and it happens very often that I get caught off guard. If I get stunned by streak, I MUST cc break it otherwise I'm dead. That's already alot of stamina spent right there.

Once again, if you don't believe me, I challenge you to duel Skaffa ingame and talk to me about it after.

I'm not really in theory crafting so you kinda lost me with all your numbers. On the other side, I know how and when to use my abilities to be efficient and I have a good situation awareness in general. I have several recordings of me killing multiple vr14s in the same battle 1vX so I would not consider myself an unexperienced player.

There is a counter to perma block shield builds.... get a shield yourself!! and its about all most people can do:D shows the glorious balance ESO has....

thelordoffelines · January 2015

Cody wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Once again, for all the sorcs who QQ about S&B being the only counter to S&B, that is not true. If you want a real counter, you should try 2hand / resto. Streak / Critical Charge / Curse combo drains the stamina really fast.

I have dueled many experienced players spec properly, with my S&B DK and there is no way I could beat them.

If I dare to go offensive, I die in 10-15 seconds.
If I focus on survivability, I can last 45 seconds top.

Your DK skills must be underdeveloped.

Said combo costs the sorc around 450 Magicka and 200 Stam for the first use at least, in 7/7 light. If you want to pressure you have to repeat it in short sequence, means streak will cost double and no magicka regen for 4 seconds. So we are at 700 Magicka and 200 Stam for the follow up combo.

With s&b and def stance/absorb on bar you pay around a 100 stam per block without block reduc rings. So the first time the combo hits you trade 300 stam for 450 Mag and 200 stam - you win. Follow up combo you win by an even larger margin ressourcewise.

A full light sorc`s stam pool rarely exceeds 1.6k. Nonetheless he also has to waste stam offensively to pressure you and additionally pays a higher price for blocking than you do with s&b. Let`s say we go another route and assume the sorc is wearing some medium pieces to reduce the crit charge cost, his magicka expenses increase dramatically (5l/2m: 600 Magicka & 180 Stam first combo, 950 Magicka & 180 Stam follow up). Since streak is essential to put on pressure, he would be out of magicka within seconds going full pressure mode.

If your stam pool and stam regen have decent values as s&b dk and if you know how to abuse cinderstorm to make the light/heavy weaves miss after charge, there is no chance the sorc can keep the pressure up.

You shouldn`t even be in need to pop GDB before the sorc has to switch resto to regain ressources. The damage done by unblockable curse 450 every 4 secs is a joke. 50 HP regen and Mutagen ticks alone neglect that damage almost completely. Damage shields and stuff not even accounted for.

Yawn, I seriously doubt you and the sorc were as experienced as you think.

There is always a counter to everything so you are not prouving anything by saying that there is a way to kill that sorc. Of course it is possible, because everything has a hard counter.

First of all, I am not resto, I am S&B + Destro. Second, I don't use Cinder Storm. Third, did I mention that Critical Charge hits for 950dmg even if I hold block? 950dmg. So if I dare to go offensive and forget to refresh Igneous Shield only one second, I'm screwed.

Another point, it is very easy for a sorc to stun a DK by streaking. A DK has to constantly weapon swap and it happens very often that I get caught off guard. If I get stunned by streak, I MUST cc break it otherwise I'm dead. That's already alot of stamina spent right there.

Once again, if you don't believe me, I challenge you to duel Skaffa ingame and talk to me about it after.

I'm not really in theory crafting so you kinda lost me with all your numbers. On the other side, I know how and when to use my abilities to be efficient and I have a good situation awareness in general. I have several recordings of me killing multiple vr14s in the same battle 1vX so I would not consider myself an unexperienced player.

There is a counter to perma block shield builds.... get a shield yourself!! and its about all most people can do:D shows the glorious balance ESO has....

"How do we put out that fire? Its so out of control it seems like it doesn't have a counter!"~fireman 1

"uhhh hmmm.... Throw a fire on it!"~fireman 2

Cody · January 2015

thelordoffelines wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Once again, for all the sorcs who QQ about S&B being the only counter to S&B, that is not true. If you want a real counter, you should try 2hand / resto. Streak / Critical Charge / Curse combo drains the stamina really fast.

I have dueled many experienced players spec properly, with my S&B DK and there is no way I could beat them.

If I dare to go offensive, I die in 10-15 seconds.
If I focus on survivability, I can last 45 seconds top.

Your DK skills must be underdeveloped.

Said combo costs the sorc around 450 Magicka and 200 Stam for the first use at least, in 7/7 light. If you want to pressure you have to repeat it in short sequence, means streak will cost double and no magicka regen for 4 seconds. So we are at 700 Magicka and 200 Stam for the follow up combo.

With s&b and def stance/absorb on bar you pay around a 100 stam per block without block reduc rings. So the first time the combo hits you trade 300 stam for 450 Mag and 200 stam - you win. Follow up combo you win by an even larger margin ressourcewise.

A full light sorc`s stam pool rarely exceeds 1.6k. Nonetheless he also has to waste stam offensively to pressure you and additionally pays a higher price for blocking than you do with s&b. Let`s say we go another route and assume the sorc is wearing some medium pieces to reduce the crit charge cost, his magicka expenses increase dramatically (5l/2m: 600 Magicka & 180 Stam first combo, 950 Magicka & 180 Stam follow up). Since streak is essential to put on pressure, he would be out of magicka within seconds going full pressure mode.

If your stam pool and stam regen have decent values as s&b dk and if you know how to abuse cinderstorm to make the light/heavy weaves miss after charge, there is no chance the sorc can keep the pressure up.

You shouldn`t even be in need to pop GDB before the sorc has to switch resto to regain ressources. The damage done by unblockable curse 450 every 4 secs is a joke. 50 HP regen and Mutagen ticks alone neglect that damage almost completely. Damage shields and stuff not even accounted for.

Yawn, I seriously doubt you and the sorc were as experienced as you think.

There is always a counter to everything so you are not prouving anything by saying that there is a way to kill that sorc. Of course it is possible, because everything has a hard counter.

First of all, I am not resto, I am S&B + Destro. Second, I don't use Cinder Storm. Third, did I mention that Critical Charge hits for 950dmg even if I hold block? 950dmg. So if I dare to go offensive and forget to refresh Igneous Shield only one second, I'm screwed.

Another point, it is very easy for a sorc to stun a DK by streaking. A DK has to constantly weapon swap and it happens very often that I get caught off guard. If I get stunned by streak, I MUST cc break it otherwise I'm dead. That's already alot of stamina spent right there.

Once again, if you don't believe me, I challenge you to duel Skaffa ingame and talk to me about it after.

I'm not really in theory crafting so you kinda lost me with all your numbers. On the other side, I know how and when to use my abilities to be efficient and I have a good situation awareness in general. I have several recordings of me killing multiple vr14s in the same battle 1vX so I would not consider myself an unexperienced player.

There is a counter to perma block shield builds.... get a shield yourself!! and its about all most people can do:D shows the glorious balance ESO has....

"How do we put out that fire? Its so out of control it seems like it doesn't have a counter!"~fireman 1

"uhhh hmmm.... Throw a fire on it!"~fireman 2

"better yet, nuke it"

Tankqull · January 2015

frozywozy wrote: »

Allright I'm a very bad DK and I make up numbers. For the other sorcs who are curious about how to kill a S&B DK, you can whisper me ingame and I will be glad to provide some guidance with my friend Skaffa who has a sorc on the AD side spec properly.

Have a good day.

i´m by far not an awsome Sorc (wave Derra (*●⁰ꈊ⁰●)ﾉ ) even though i have had my fair share of killed DKs but your numbers are totally out of line. all the amounts you listed are critical values wich simply do not happen in cyrodiil against anyone with half a braincell thx to impenetrable, shild spells and physical shields wich all negate any possible crit and on top blocking drastically lower the dmg dealt.

and as a small hint you can switch weapons while blocking

Observant · January 2015

frozywozy wrote: »

Allright I'm a very bad DK and I make up numbers. For the other sorcs who are curious about how to kill a S&B DK, you can whisper me ingame and I will be glad to provide some guidance with my friend Skaffa who has a sorc on the AD side spec properly.

Have a good day.

S'okay frozy, I believe you. If they only knew how much play time you had in Cyrodiil.. baha.

Fun read, thanks fellas.