onlinegamer1 wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Part 1: Initial Champion Points

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As already discussed, debated, and confirmed by @ZOS_GinaBruno‌, @ZOS decided to break their promise that earned EXP now,

Surely, as a supposed software designer, you would recognize that a statement made about the current iteration of a project that is not only incomplete but untested and unbalanced is not a "promise".

It depends on the way a promise is worded. Maria's was not one about the current iteration on an incomplete, untested and unbalanced system. It was a promise of a value of our work being recognized.

Did you read something nobody else did? There was no promise made, she said how the current unfinished version was planned, and in the next two sentences spoke about how they still had no idea how it was all going to play out. How does that not come off as unfinished? As for untested - it's still not even on the pts.

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »
Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap.

Undeniably a promise.

Finish the quote. Undeniably a statement made about unfinished code.

Quote is finished, its clearly and undeniably a promise as worded.

Cherry picking from a full statement is cute and all, but I hope you realize the difference - even if you're too upset about the change to admit it right now.

I can understand your confusion, since you are not in our profession (software design), and as a layperson, you don't really understand the quote. For example, you think the quote is from Maria Aliprando. Of course, it's not, it's from Zenimax Online Studios via one of their employees. That is just one example of the kind of misunderstanding most players on this forum have about ZOS' promise.

The business implication in what ZOS wrote in that promise is financial gain via a false promise. As many others have mentioned, they would have simply canceled if they knew the truth.

I am in the profession, but I don't feel the need to express it because I don't fill my posts with useless fluff in an attempt to give it weight. The gaming background is especially hilarious:

It's clear that you are not in active development of non-user initiated content where you are not beholden to a spec that the user has purchased pre-development. This is developer initiated content - and they reserve the right to change anything and everything despite the tears that follow.

Please attempt to keep your "software experience" hard on in check, your voice means no more than anybody else's.

This is all moot anyway, as nowhere was there a double pinky super secret friends forever cross-my-heart promise made. Melodrama isn't constructive.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Part 1: Initial Champion Points

---

As already discussed, debated, and confirmed by @ZOS_GinaBruno‌, @ZOS decided to break their promise that earned EXP now,

Surely, as a supposed software designer, you would recognize that a statement made about the current iteration of a project that is not only incomplete but untested and unbalanced is not a "promise".

It depends on the way a promise is worded. Maria's was not one about the current iteration on an incomplete, untested and unbalanced system. It was a promise of a value of our work being recognized.

Did you read something nobody else did? There was no promise made, she said how the current unfinished version was planned, and in the next two sentences spoke about how they still had no idea how it was all going to play out. How does that not come off as unfinished? As for untested - it's still not even on the pts.

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »
Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap.

Undeniably a promise.

Finish the quote. Undeniably a statement made about unfinished code.

Quote is finished, its clearly and undeniably a promise as worded.

Cherry picking from a full statement is cute and all, but I hope you realize the difference - even if you're too upset about the change to admit it right now.

I can understand your confusion, since you are not in our profession (software design), and as a layperson, you don't really understand the quote. For example, you think the quote is from Maria Aliprando. Of course, it's not, it's from Zenimax Online Studios via one of their employees. That is just one example of the kind of misunderstanding most players on this forum have about ZOS' promise.

The business implication in what ZOS wrote in that promise is financial gain via a false promise. As many others have mentioned, they would have simply canceled if they knew the truth.

I am in the profession, but I don't feel the need to express it because I don't fill my posts with useless fluff in an attempt to give it weight. The gaming background is especially hilarious:

Nobody cares.

It's clear that you are not in active development of non-user initiated content where you are not beholden to a spec that the user has purchased pre-development. This is developer initiated content - and they reserve the right to change anything and everything despite the tears that follow.

Please attempt to keep your "software experience" hard on in check, your voice means no more than anybody else's.

This is all moot anyway, as nowhere was there a double pinky super secret friends forever cross-my-heart promise made. Melodrama isn't constructive.

Its ironic that you would imply that having 24 years of software design experience "doesn't make me more qualified than anyone else." Um, of course it does. I have more experience designing software than some of those people on ESO Live have been alive. Claiming that this vast experience doesn't carry more weight than some random 15 yr old posting on this forum is ridiculous on its face.

If there were exactly 0 threads about this 30CP issue, then maybe your opinion that "none of this matters" would hold some relevance. But its quite obvious to the rest of us that ZoS made a design decision that is both bad in terms of logic, and in terms of reputation/trust with its current player base.

I've suggested a fix to this problem in the OP of this thread that would fix the actual problem - one of breaking promises and eroding trust - without changing "game balance" in the slightest. All ZoS has to do, is admit it's a better option and implement it (or something like it).

You are forum member #xxxxxx, not a 24 year software experienced consultant that ZOS has hired and placed stake in. As such, even if it makes you frowny face, your opinion weighs as much as the tween who wants Nightblades to dual weild bows. Your claims for experience fall on deaf ears especially considering (if your claims are even taken at face value) the whole spectrum of poor to phenomenal system design mixed bag that career developers come in.

That said, the problem with the rebalancing to the Champion system is the lack of new landscape pve to eat through with release as Cadwell completionists have likely no questing option. This is purely for the sake of content diversity.

The whole business of "ZOS lied and broke their promise, they gave their word and now I can't trust them anymore" is false because no promise was made. If anything, ZOS should take away from this that the community is not mature enough to be told about any future content until 100% of the features are set in stone.

As for starting CP, imo the number is irrelevant as even your suggested 50 is so minute that players would still be more or less equal. I would be fine should your opinion turn out to be the direction ZOS internally decides to go as I mostly take issue with the notion that people were somehow deceived when in reality they don't understand the development process. If we take in to account that we were told how the system changed in ESO live we will have had a month+ window of knowledge of the changes - it's not like they kept quiet until update day and sprung it on the community. You can think it's a bad decision -feel free - but calling it a "broken promise" is just hyperbole.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Just a gentle reminder to stick to discussing the original topic presented and not stray into bickering and personal attacks. We understand that tensions can run high, but taking jabs at one another is not a constructive way to discuss the ideas laid out in the original post.

We encourage all posters to use the report feature to alert the moderation team of any suspected Code of Conduct violations rather than replying in-thread, as this can needlessly sidetrack and escalate a situation. And remember: sometimes it's best to agree to disagree.