Why do people want veteran ranks removed?

EQBallzz · January 2015

Elloa wrote: »

Most people didn't like the Veteran rank, cause basically it's 14 more level, that separate players, and spread grouping possibilities.
The Veteran ranks have been added as an artificial way to increase the longevity of the game, but it was not well thoughs and didn't met a lot of enthousiasm.

Most of my friend stopped to play once they reach the veteran ranks cause they didn't enjoyed to be forced into the "other faction" questing with their main character.

The removal of the Veteran ranks and the addition of the Champion system will improve greatly the end game life of the players, and make things more interesting as players once they reach lvl 50 will have tons of activities to choose from instead of being forced into few....

Wrong. People will still need to do the other factions for skill points and likely will want to do them for all that XP to earn CP. Not to mention skyshards and achievements.

Cuyler · January 2015

EQBallzz wrote: »

Elloa wrote: »

Most people didn't like the Veteran rank, cause basically it's 14 more level, that separate players, and spread grouping possibilities.
The Veteran ranks have been added as an artificial way to increase the longevity of the game, but it was not well thoughs and didn't met a lot of enthousiasm.

Most of my friend stopped to play once they reach the veteran ranks cause they didn't enjoyed to be forced into the "other faction" questing with their main character.

The removal of the Veteran ranks and the addition of the Champion system will improve greatly the end game life of the players, and make things more interesting as players once they reach lvl 50 will have tons of activities to choose from instead of being forced into few....

Wrong. People will still need to do the other factions for skill points and likely will want to do them for all that XP to earn CP. Not to mention skyshards and achievements.

Well not totally wrong. She's right that it's too much separation in between the player base for too long a period of time and discourages grouping.

It's too much time between V1-12 where your a "vet" but no one wants you to group for vet content because your not a V12-14 vet.

tplink3r1 · January 2015

Some people want progression to be COMPLETELY removed from this game.

Cuyler · January 2015

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Some people want progression to be COMPLETELY removed from this game.

I agree that removing vertical progression would not be my first choice. But there was a large gap between V1-12 with what feels like being isolated or "banished" to endless PvE quests.

Scaling should have fixed this but the implementation of it was forced and rushed so that it wasn't scaled appropriately. It should of been on a player adjustable scale which would have improved grouping opportunities for those V1-12 making the steep climb to V14 more bearable.

I expect the CS to improve grouping, which is why I'm excited to see it. Everyone being L50 at least gets your foot in the door. Then it will be up to each other to determine if a player has enough CPs or experience to group with them.

WillhelmBlack · January 2015

I'm for it. It's probably designed around the new content Thieves/DB etc which essentially brings PvP to all zones. I prefer skills to levels also.
I know for a fact my VR6 Templar is already capable of taking out VR14's but not all of them by a long shot because they just have way more of everything at their disposal.
My fights in PvP are won by skill alone ATM and I wouldn't mind having a fairer chance without having to do a massive grind, which is the only way to get to max level if like me you refuse to do Cadwell's silver and gold. I did half of those zones on alts and in beta.

Kolache · January 2015

IMO, moderation is key. Replacing VRs with Champion Points is just slower vertical progression, (it would only be horizontal if you had to give up one bonus to replace it with another). Combined with seasonal gear refreshing, it's a good attempt at compromise.

If it works it will be a lot more sustainable than A) never adding progression for veteran players or

an ever-building power gap for fresh players.

Tavore1138 · January 2015

Do they want them removed?

I know many did not like having to quest through the other factions but I don't think they hated the ranks themselves.

I know some didn't like the cap being raised twice so close to launch but that didn't equate to hating the ranks theselves.

I know some were annoyed that the levels came with no skill or attrubute points but still not hating the levels themselves.

Many of these problems have been addressed.

To me I would keep VR levels and simply add CP as a parallel but seperate form of progression.

EQBallzz · January 2015

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Do they want them removed?

I know many did not like having to quest through the other factions but I don't think they hated the ranks themselves.

I know some didn't like the cap being raised twice so close to launch but that didn't equate to hating the ranks theselves.

I know some were annoyed that the levels came with no skill or attrubute points but still not hating the levels themselves.

Many of these problems have been addressed.

To me I would keep VR levels and simply add CP as a parallel but seperate form of progression.

I tend to agree. I think it would be better to just leave the vet levels in the game. They already lowered the difficulty significantly and the required XP to gain each level. They could just lay the CS system on top of it and award everyone 30 CP as planned and this would resolve most if not all of the issues ppl are complaining about. No issues with items or lost progression or crafting progression or any of that. This system *is* a vertical progression system after all so if you can't be bothered to replace what you remove..don't remove it to begin with.

Guppet · January 2015

Under the old system, Cadwells silver and gold were pretty much required to get to end game (the alternatives were grinding, which is not popular, or levelling via PVP, which takes far too long and involves being underpowered, getting your ass handed to you, the whole way). Under the new system, they will be optional. It was an artificial barrier to the end game that people wanted to join after beating the games end boss.

This apparently really hard for some people to understand.

It would be interesting to see the average weekly play time of those that supposedly don't understand this. Its probably far in excess of those that did not want to go through VR. Therein lies the real problem. A game that has some people putting in 80 hours a week (there are a few here with over 110 days played) and others putting in 5 or so, will find that the player base differs on what it considers an acceptable investment of time to get to end game.

Elloa · January 2015

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Some people want progression to be COMPLETELY removed from this game.

Why do you want progress once you are max level? Its boring... Once you reach max level its the moment you should see the end game content open to you, and be able to team up with all your other max level friend. Not to have another 14 levels with a different name to get before to be capable to enjoy same activities with your friend.

After that, I'm not against a "gear"/"champion point" progression to accomplish the most difficult content, like trials. But to enter Cyrodill, Craglorn and Veteran Dungeon, players should just have reach max level in my opinion.

shamallb14_ESO · January 2015

VR levels killed the main reason for rolling an alt for me. Instead of having a totally new play through with a different class and faction, you have a new class but you play through the same content you had to on your main character just to get to VR 14 to compete. If you ask me VR levels hurt the longevity of ESO more than helped it and was a very poor design. Not to mention killing faction pride. After leveling to 50 as one faction then going to another on the same character just didn't feel right to me.

Lynnessa · January 2015

I can't speak for everyone, but I always thought the veteran rank system was confusing and unnecessary. I mean, we have level 1-49, and then instead of levels we have veteran ranks...? Why not just call them levels? I mean, we're still basically just levelling up...

So I'm glad they're going away. I like things clear and easy to understand.

miahq · January 2015

Honestly it doesn't matter, as a replacement for end of game content it's absolutely no different a system from vet ranks. They just changed the rewards and tried to slow it down a bit, that's all. Even at 2100 cp, which I think is what it is, and 1 hour per point as they've stated, most people will have that done in 8 months or less. So by next Christmas we'll be right back where we are now. And bonus, you only have to do it once so... I'm not sure what end game content is supposed to be on all your other characters.

Short version, if this is eso version 2.0 then stay tuned for version 3.0 next Christmas! They'll be introducing the new "legendary" system... basically it'll be the same thing, just much slower. And new... well, new in the sense that it's new for this game. Not new in the sense that it's a new idea. It's sort of like TBS' old slogan for reruns, "if you missed it the first time, it's new to you!"

AlexDougherty · January 2015

Cuyler wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Some people want progression to be COMPLETELY removed from this game.

I agree that removing vertical progression would not be my first choice. But there was a large gap between V1-12 with what feels like being isolated or "banished" to endless PvE quests.

Nor mine either, I can patiently plod on until I get to the top, I was rather looking forward to getting to VR18 (I was going to take ages, so new levels would have been added)

miahq · January 2015

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Some people want progression to be COMPLETELY removed from this game.

I agree that removing vertical progression would not be my first choice. But there was a large gap between V1-12 with what feels like being isolated or "banished" to endless PvE quests.

Nor mine either, I can patiently plod on until I get to the top, I was rather looking forward to getting to VR18 (I was going to take ages, so new levels would have been added)

You're never going to get rid of vertical progression, I mean what other direction are you going to go, down? I guess you could sort of go sideways, but you'd still be going up, just at an angle.

Honestly, I wish they'd stuck to something a little more like oblivion-- and they did to an extent, but capping leveling at 50, which controls your basic 3, and keeping separate progressions for each of your skill sets, but also making them twice as varied and 5-10 times as deep, would have been better to me.

You can't completely get rid of grinding, some people will always grind, but you can slow it down to the point there is no point in trying to grind to the end, instead people would level and grind to a certain point-- probably when their character level hits 50-- and the. Go play. But you'd still have another year or two of morphs skills to level individually.

Not all has to be about damage either, as I realize they don't want to put older players too far ahead of younger players. But you could easily take say, fiery breath and add a morph that makes it a slightly bigger cone or slightly longer reach for each rank. Maybe one that adds fear to it as well. Morph it into a 360 degrees ability where you spin and hit everyone around you, but at half range and damage. Hell, you could probably add a morph that does nothing but makes the flame like a dragon and people would probably love it.

Point is, if you make it pointless to try and grind out to the end, people will stop doing it and just go play the game. And they'll still have plenty of room to grow. Then you've just got to create a more immersive world to keep them interested and exploring. Why waste old zones as though they're one use only?

Elloa · January 2015

miahq wrote: »

(....)

Point is, if you make it pointless to try and grind out to the end, people will stop doing it and just go play the game. And they'll still have plenty of room to grow. Then you've just got to create a more immersive world to keep them interested and exploring. Why waste old zones as though they're one use only?

I think that the CHampion system is the right answer: player can still progress, but the difference between a player with 200 champion point and a player having 30 champion point will not be that game breaking and they will still be able to feel more or less equal while playing together. Which is my main reason to dislike Veteran ranks: separation between players and gates for content.

With this system players will still have enough reasons to play the game for their own individual progression, but also will have more occasion to team up with other players. This should be something more fun in the end!

miahq · January 2015

Elloa wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

(....)

Point is, if you make it pointless to try and grind out to the end, people will stop doing it and just go play the game. And they'll still have plenty of room to grow. Then you've just got to create a more immersive world to keep them interested and exploring. Why waste old zones as though they're one use only?

I think that the CHampion system is the right answer: player can still progress, but the difference between a player with 200 champion point and a player having 30 champion point will not be that game breaking and they will still be able to feel more or less equal while playing together. Which is my main reason to dislike Veteran ranks: separation between players and gates for content.

With this system players will still have enough reasons to play the game for their own individual progression, but also will have more occasion to team up with other players. This should be something more fun in the end!

The champion system is absolutely the same idea, I just think they need to do the same thing with skills so that they can progress and morph even beyond the level cap. It doesn't even have to be about increased damage morphs either, you could add a morph to fiery breath that makes it wider, bigger, or a longer reach for 4 ranks. You could add a fear component. You could make it target the ground and turn it into a cc. Just make it a good two years worth of grinding to finish the whole thing, and people will stop grinding so much and just play. You'd also end up with more diversity in builds, with added skills and morphs.

If I make fun of the champion system it's only because it's not that original. And some of the changes, like multiplying all of our stats by 10, are just kind of silly. I mean, everything will work the same. The numbers are just bigger now. We aren't idiots, I don't know why they think people will be more impressed by that.

EQBallzz · January 2015

Elloa wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

(....)

Point is, if you make it pointless to try and grind out to the end, people will stop doing it and just go play the game. And they'll still have plenty of room to grow. Then you've just got to create a more immersive world to keep them interested and exploring. Why waste old zones as though they're one use only?

I think that the CHampion system is the right answer: player can still progress, but the difference between a player with 200 champion point and a player having 30 champion point will not be that game breaking and they will still be able to feel more or less equal while playing together. Which is my main reason to dislike Veteran ranks: separation between players and gates for content.

With this system players will still have enough reasons to play the game for their own individual progression, but also will have more occasion to team up with other players. This should be something more fun in the end!

It's no different. If you think there won't be a gap between players within a month or even weeks you are deluded. Do you think competitive trials groups that have 200 CP are going to not have a min CP level to join them? Do you think elite PvP groups/guilds will not require a min CP level or certain powers to run with them?

I love how people saying everything will be equal with the CS system because the difference between 200 and 30 CP is minimal are the same ones who don't want to award current vet players with CP that they already earned from non-repeatable content because it would create too big of a gap.

So let me get this straight..awarding 30 CP to V1 characters and 100 CP to V14 characters is a game breaking gap that can't be tolerated but people with 30 and 200 CP difference will be a big love fest of equality with rainbows and kittens for all? Make up your mind because you can't have it both ways. It's either a progression system or it isn't. People either earn the CP equally for doing the same things or it's on a foundation of inequality.

miahq · January 2015

EQBallzz wrote: »

Elloa wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

(....)

Point is, if you make it pointless to try and grind out to the end, people will stop doing it and just go play the game. And they'll still have plenty of room to grow. Then you've just got to create a more immersive world to keep them interested and exploring. Why waste old zones as though they're one use only?

I think that the CHampion system is the right answer: player can still progress, but the difference between a player with 200 champion point and a player having 30 champion point will not be that game breaking and they will still be able to feel more or less equal while playing together. Which is my main reason to dislike Veteran ranks: separation between players and gates for content.

With this system players will still have enough reasons to play the game for their own individual progression, but also will have more occasion to team up with other players. This should be something more fun in the end!

It's no different. If you think there won't be a gap between players within a month or even weeks you are deluded. Do you think competitive trials groups that have 200 CP are going to not have a min CP level to join them? Do you think elite PvP groups/guilds will not require a min CP level or certain powers to run with them?

I love how people saying everything will be equal with the CS system because the difference between 200 and 30 CP is minimal are the same ones who don't want to award current vet players with CP that they already earned from non-repeatable content because it would create too big of a gap.

So let me get this straight..awarding 30 CP to V1 characters and 100 CP to V14 characters is a game breaking gap that can't be tolerated but people with 30 and 200 CP difference will be a big love fest of equality with rainbows and kittens for all? Make up your mind because you can't have it both ways. It's either a progression system or it isn't. People either earn the CP equally for doing the same things or it's on a foundation of inequality.

It's the same as the legacy system in swtor, just scaled down. So all people have to do to answer the question of how effective will it be in balancing out old players and new players, as well as making end game pvp more enjoyable, need only look that far.

Guppet · January 2015

EQBallzz wrote: »

Elloa wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

(....)

Point is, if you make it pointless to try and grind out to the end, people will stop doing it and just go play the game. And they'll still have plenty of room to grow. Then you've just got to create a more immersive world to keep them interested and exploring. Why waste old zones as though they're one use only?

I think that the CHampion system is the right answer: player can still progress, but the difference between a player with 200 champion point and a player having 30 champion point will not be that game breaking and they will still be able to feel more or less equal while playing together. Which is my main reason to dislike Veteran ranks: separation between players and gates for content.

With this system players will still have enough reasons to play the game for their own individual progression, but also will have more occasion to team up with other players. This should be something more fun in the end!

It's no different. If you think there won't be a gap between players within a month or even weeks you are deluded. Do you think competitive trials groups that have 200 CP are going to not have a min CP level to join them? Do you think elite PvP groups/guilds will not require a min CP level or certain powers to run with them?

I love how people saying everything will be equal with the CS system because the difference between 200 and 30 CP is minimal are the same ones who don't want to award current vet players with CP that they already earned from non-repeatable content because it would create too big of a gap.

So let me get this straight..awarding 30 CP to V1 characters and 100 CP to V14 characters is a game breaking gap that can't be tolerated but people with 30 and 200 CP difference will be a big love fest of equality with rainbows and kittens for all? Make up your mind because you can't have it both ways. It's either a progression system or it isn't. People either earn the CP equally for doing the same things or it's on a foundation of inequality.

Your making a massive assumption, that is completely wrong. Your assuming that joe average wants to join the competitive trials group's and the elite PVPers. The reality, is they could not give a stuff about your niche group's, they just want to get to the end game and play with people with the same interests and commitment level as themselves.

You really need to understand that the top trial times are not remotely interesting to anybody but the most dedicated hard-core players. There is a reason that there's a mod to ignore announcements. Its about as interesting as who won the local elections in Queensland.

Currently if a group of friends want to do DSA normal, they need to get to VR14, then they can do it, after the change, they only need to get to level 50, that's a massive change and gets them where they want to be in a third of the time.

Cody · January 2015

Because veteran ranks are a boring grindfest. If you are not at least VR6ish, you will have a hard time in PvP. Grind groups in grindlorn won't want to carry you at a low level, and cadwells crap is boring and is forced upon you.

Level 50 is a level everyone can reach in due time and still have fun in the game.

Alphashado · January 2015

With the current system there is just too much of a gap between the perceived "end of game" and actual "endgame content". As mentioned before, you have to be VR 12-14 in order to be competitive in ANY of the endgame activities. Yet you vanquish the bad guys and save the world from destruction at level 50.

1. The very rapid realization from new players that level 50 and saving the world means absolutely nothing.
2. The very rapid realization from new players realizing that there is basically 100+ levels to go after they hit level 50 before they can compete in PvP or are welcome to Trials and Arena.
3. Having to go through all of that again just to experience what it's like to play a different class. Leveling an alt to level 50 is fun. Leveling an alt to 150 sucks.
4. The current system also forces a mandatory very linear progressive path. The CS and removal of VRs will allow people to explore and complete all of this content at their own pace and in their own direction giving ESO much more of a sandbox feel while still maintaining a vertical progression. Also, lets not forget about seasonal gear for additional vertical progression.

At the end of the day, ZOS envisioned the VR content to be some kind of endgame. It very clearly is not endgame, but rather a long grindy road towards the REAL endgame.

apostate9 · January 2015

LonePirate wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Being VR14 forces you to do things you don't want to do.
So lets think about this.

1. You hit VR1 and can go to Cyrodill to level up to VR14 which is fine so long as you don't want to survive any fight with VR14 at all ever and be frustrated while you level. That will be frustrating

2. Go to craglorn. Ok except Craglorn is a VR10+ zone and most groups don't want to carry you. So you can grind but that isn't fun for everyone.

3. Gold and Silver which is currently the best way to level VR ranks. So congrats you just saved the world and brought some form of piece and everyone knows you you super amazing hero you. Now go do it 2 more times while no one knows you.

With the removal of vet ranks and going to 50

1. Be level 50 go to Cyrodill and be competitive.= It works
2. Get to 50 and Go to Craglorn= you don't have to be carried since you are not 13 levels away from everyone else
3. You can go to other territories if you want but you don't actually have to.= Gives the choice without feeling forced.

Constantly adding levels just puts new players farther away from existing players making a huge disconnect. Putting a cap allows newer players to play with existing players and makes everyone happy.

Imagine if you just started playing WoW and they didn't offer the level to 90 option. You start and there is no one in the starting zones. You are lonely and no one to group with. And now you have 10 years of content to complete by yourself. And you can't complete all of it because all the level 90+ is in the last zone spamming LFG while you are in a huge world....alone.

Make sense or did I ramble too much?

Let me provide a concise summary of this post. You don't like playing the game how it is currently designed. You also would prefer a complete overhaul of the game instead of offering a shortcut system like the one you mentioned or the one ZOS currently uses on the PTS which could be implemented on the live server with far less effort and no game overhaul?

Why in the world would any sensible person support your position?

Uhhh...way to miss the boat there buddy. Let me make my post equally concise:

more or less anyone who actually *played* to VR14 DOES support it, and it isn't an issue of want. This is happening. Adjust.

Voodoo · January 2015

One form of progression that is NOT done very much in MMO's (TSW does this) is not the tradional level progression but one of deeper character skill sets. I believe this is what CP system is trying to do. A way to build your character in a more in depth skill or atribute points system.

After playing wow for 7 years the only reason I left was when they implemented thier dumbed down skill system. It went from quite a bit of choice (even if some skills lacked depth) to this terrible choice between 3 options of skills every 5 levels. So now the only progression is level and gear. You could almost close your eyes and choose it just didnt matter much.

I am really looking forward to leaving behind the cookie cutter builds and putting serious thought to which direction I am going with my character with focus in certain areas of the CP system tree.

Hortator Mopa · January 2015

LonePirate wrote: »

I honestly do not understand the rationale for removing veteran ranks. Why are people salivating over and anticipating this change?

The game needs a vertical progression system, even if it is frozen for long periods of time such as with the current VR14 cap. It is impractical to leave the max level at 50 ad infinitum because the game will become static and not offer any progression - which is undesirable for its own reasons.

The current VR system is implemented and understood by most players. Plus, it allows for easy future expansions without radically overhauling the current system. If ZOS goes to all of the effort to remove veteran ranks, exactly how would the game expand in the future? ZOS would need to undo some, if not most of the work it would need to do in order to remove them in the first place. That's a waste of time.

With all of the far more important things ZOS needs to complete - Imperial City, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Spellcrafting, Housing, Consoles, Wrothgar, etc. - removing veteran ranks will only delay those far more important additions to the game. Aren't those things more important than removing veteran ranks?

I understand people may dislike all of the time and effort needed to reach the current max level; but this is a game that is not intended to be completed in a day or a week or even a month. Who wants to hit level 50 in Coldharbour and then never increase in level again despite the mountains of content that remains to be played after that point?

Removing veteran ranks makes absolutely no sense to me:

Its actually really simple. People don't want to work for things.

I got v10 only 6 days after release doing 100% of the content almost.. I got v12 in one day after crag doing all the quests and content there. Then v14 the day after it released the update (Had work so couldnt on day 1) by doing the quests and like 20 minutes of grinding to finish it off).

Its a lot of work but by finishing a zone 100% before moving on and putting in time and effort I go to max levels very fast.

TL;DR - People are lazy. FREE PLEZ

Cody · January 2015

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

I honestly do not understand the rationale for removing veteran ranks. Why are people salivating over and anticipating this change?

The game needs a vertical progression system, even if it is frozen for long periods of time such as with the current VR14 cap. It is impractical to leave the max level at 50 ad infinitum because the game will become static and not offer any progression - which is undesirable for its own reasons.

The current VR system is implemented and understood by most players. Plus, it allows for easy future expansions without radically overhauling the current system. If ZOS goes to all of the effort to remove veteran ranks, exactly how would the game expand in the future? ZOS would need to undo some, if not most of the work it would need to do in order to remove them in the first place. That's a waste of time.

With all of the far more important things ZOS needs to complete - Imperial City, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Spellcrafting, Housing, Consoles, Wrothgar, etc. - removing veteran ranks will only delay those far more important additions to the game. Aren't those things more important than removing veteran ranks?

I understand people may dislike all of the time and effort needed to reach the current max level; but this is a game that is not intended to be completed in a day or a week or even a month. Who wants to hit level 50 in Coldharbour and then never increase in level again despite the mountains of content that remains to be played after that point?

Removing veteran ranks makes absolutely no sense to me:

Its actually really simple. People don't want to work for things.

I got v10 only 6 days after release doing 100% of the content almost.. I got v12 in one day after crag doing all the quests and content there. Then v14 the day after it released the update (Had work so couldnt on day 1) by doing the quests and like 20 minutes of grinding to finish it off).

Its a lot of work but by finishing a zone 100% before moving on and putting in time and effort I go to max levels very fast.

TL;DR - People are lazy. FREE PLEZ

really? took me 3 months to hit VR12, by doing all the vet content and repeated vet dungeon runs, and another month to hit VR14 thru PvP.

how the heck did you do all of cadwells crap, PLUS craglorn, PLUS the 1-50 content, in only 6 days?

do tell, im very curious

Hortator Mopa · January 2015

Cody wrote: »

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

I honestly do not understand the rationale for removing veteran ranks. Why are people salivating over and anticipating this change?

The game needs a vertical progression system, even if it is frozen for long periods of time such as with the current VR14 cap. It is impractical to leave the max level at 50 ad infinitum because the game will become static and not offer any progression - which is undesirable for its own reasons.

The current VR system is implemented and understood by most players. Plus, it allows for easy future expansions without radically overhauling the current system. If ZOS goes to all of the effort to remove veteran ranks, exactly how would the game expand in the future? ZOS would need to undo some, if not most of the work it would need to do in order to remove them in the first place. That's a waste of time.

With all of the far more important things ZOS needs to complete - Imperial City, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Spellcrafting, Housing, Consoles, Wrothgar, etc. - removing veteran ranks will only delay those far more important additions to the game. Aren't those things more important than removing veteran ranks?

I understand people may dislike all of the time and effort needed to reach the current max level; but this is a game that is not intended to be completed in a day or a week or even a month. Who wants to hit level 50 in Coldharbour and then never increase in level again despite the mountains of content that remains to be played after that point?

Removing veteran ranks makes absolutely no sense to me:

Its actually really simple. People don't want to work for things.

I got v10 only 6 days after release doing 100% of the content almost.. I got v12 in one day after crag doing all the quests and content there. Then v14 the day after it released the update (Had work so couldnt on day 1) by doing the quests and like 20 minutes of grinding to finish it off).

Its a lot of work but by finishing a zone 100% before moving on and putting in time and effort I go to max levels very fast.

TL;DR - People are lazy. FREE PLEZ

really? took me 3 months to hit VR12, by doing all the vet content and repeated vet dungeon runs, and another month to hit VR14 thru PvP.

how the heck did you do all of cadwells crap, PLUS craglorn, PLUS the 1-50 content, in only 6 days?

do tell, im very curious

I got really lucky and had 12 days off when the game released. So that allowed me to play a lot for 6 days. I also have three screens so I would have a map with every location, possible achievement, shard etc on it on one screen and another with guides to finishing the zone 100% (with the exception to things best left to come back to).

As for crag 10-12 and 12-14 they are pretty small content updates and the quests get you close to the new cap and the rest you just grind out for like 30 mins top.

By far the slowest thing to complete is some of the grindy achievements.

The new update may make any completionist like me want to quit due to the wait times... we already have achievements that cant be completed within 100 days and thats if you NEVER miss a pledge... its dumb.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO · January 2015

all i have to say is have u played skyrim, the champion system in a way takes ur level past v14, each person build through the system is going to be different, no two builds should be the same, giving the game play like in pvp a more player skilled base. it also in a way gives a very high level cap if none

Hortator Mopa · January 2015

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

all i have to say is have u played skyrim, the champion system in a way takes ur level past v14, each person build through the system is going to be different, no two builds should be the same, giving the game play like in pvp a more player skilled base. it also in a way gives a very high level cap if none

There will always be class based op builds. I say 2 days after it comes out someone will have mastered the best path and the good players will be using it. Just like now if I have a NB join my group and he/she is not the same build as me I know he/she wont be as helpful to the group as he/she should be..

Sounds elitest when really its just a case of me not wanting my time wasted by people who dont play well or need a carry.

Darkonflare15 · January 2015

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

all i have to say is have u played skyrim, the champion system in a way takes ur level past v14, each person build through the system is going to be different, no two builds should be the same, giving the game play like in pvp a more player skilled base. it also in a way gives a very high level cap if none

There will always be class based op builds. I say 2 days after it comes out someone will have mastered the best path and the good players will be using it. Just like now if I have a NB join my group and he/she is not the same build as me I know he/she wont be as helpful to the group as he/she should be..

Sounds elitest when really its just a case of me not wanting my time wasted by people who dont play well or need a carry.

^ This proves why people do not want to play with others and just want to solo things on their on because of people with this mentally. Should is not the word you should be using. Could should be the word. As a person should not be playing a certain way because another person tells them to or wants them to. A good player should not need a cookie cutter build to be good. There should be multiple of ways to be good. Not one best way.