Why do people want veteran ranks removed?

LonePirate

I honestly do not understand the rationale for removing veteran ranks. Why are people salivating over and anticipating this change?

The game needs a vertical progression system, even if it is frozen for long periods of time such as with the current VR14 cap. It is impractical to leave the max level at 50 ad infinitum because the game will become static and not offer any progression - which is undesirable for its own reasons.

The current VR system is implemented and understood by most players. Plus, it allows for easy future expansions without radically overhauling the current system. If ZOS goes to all of the effort to remove veteran ranks, exactly how would the game expand in the future? ZOS would need to undo some, if not most of the work it would need to do in order to remove them in the first place. That's a waste of time.

With all of the far more important things ZOS needs to complete - Imperial City, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Spellcrafting, Housing, Consoles, Wrothgar, etc. - removing veteran ranks will only delay those far more important additions to the game. Aren't those things more important than removing veteran ranks?

I understand people may dislike all of the time and effort needed to reach the current max level; but this is a game that is not intended to be completed in a day or a week or even a month. Who wants to hit level 50 in Coldharbour and then never increase in level again despite the mountains of content that remains to be played after that point?

Removing veteran ranks makes absolutely no sense to me:

HxC

Have you level an Alt to VR14?
If not, you can't understand !

ers101284b14_ESO

Being VR14 forces you to do things you don't want to do.
So lets think about this.

1. You hit VR1 and can go to Cyrodill to level up to VR14 which is fine so long as you don't want to survive any fight with VR14 at all ever and be frustrated while you level. That will be frustrating

2. Go to craglorn. Ok except Craglorn is a VR10+ zone and most groups don't want to carry you. So you can grind but that isn't fun for everyone.

3. Gold and Silver which is currently the best way to level VR ranks. So congrats you just saved the world and brought some form of piece and everyone knows you you super amazing hero you. Now go do it 2 more times while no one knows you.

With the removal of vet ranks and going to 50

1. Be level 50 go to Cyrodill and be competitive.= It works
2. Get to 50 and Go to Craglorn= you don't have to be carried since you are not 13 levels away from everyone else
3. You can go to other territories if you want but you don't actually have to.= Gives the choice without feeling forced.

Constantly adding levels just puts new players farther away from existing players making a huge disconnect. Putting a cap allows newer players to play with existing players and makes everyone happy.

Imagine if you just started playing WoW and they didn't offer the level to 90 option. You start and there is no one in the starting zones. You are lonely and no one to group with. And now you have 10 years of content to complete by yourself. And you can't complete all of it because all the level 90+ is in the last zone spamming LFG while you are in a huge world....alone.

Make sense or did I ramble too much?

BBSooner

Did ZOS post that the removal of VR will set the level cap for the entire lifespan of the game to 50? The removal of VR simply makes repeating two other factions worth of content irrelevant for beginning endgame - for the time being.

Cuyler

BBSooner wrote: »

Did ZOS post that the removal of VR will set the level cap for the entire lifespan of the game to 50? The removal of VR simply makes repeating two other factions worth of content irrelevant for beginning endgame - for the time being.

Yes they stated that L50 will be new cap. L50+ and L50++ zones (i.e. silver and gold) will have the sole purpose of grinding xp for CPs (probably).

WraithAzraiel

I don't think it's US that wants Veteran Rank removed so much as the Devs saying, "Yea we don't want these anymore." Which further proves the theory that Veteran Rank were a further stopgap measure in the continuing payed beta to which we're all bound.

Cuyler

LonePirate wrote: »

I honestly do not understand the rationale for removing veteran ranks. Why are people salivating over and anticipating this change?

The game needs a vertical progression system, even if it is frozen for long periods of time such as with the current VR14 cap. It is impractical to leave the max level at 50 ad infinitum because the game will become static and not offer any progression - which is undesirable for its own reasons.

The current VR system is implemented and understood by most players. Plus, it allows for easy future expansions without radically overhauling the current system. If ZOS goes to all of the effort to remove veteran ranks, exactly how would the game expand in the future? ZOS would need to undo some, if not most of the work it would need to do in order to remove them in the first place. That's a waste of time.

With all of the far more important things ZOS needs to complete - Imperial City, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Spellcrafting, Housing, Consoles, Wrothgar, etc. - removing veteran ranks will only delay those far more important additions to the game. Aren't those things more important than removing veteran ranks?

I understand people may dislike all of the time and effort needed to reach the current max level; but this is a game that is not intended to be completed in a day or a week or even a month. Who wants to hit level 50 in Coldharbour and then never increase in level again despite the mountains of content that remains to be played after that point?

Removing veteran ranks makes absolutely no sense to me:

Personally, I like the idea because I don't want to play a sorc indefinitely and would like to try other classes. A DK for instance, in which I don't want to spend 3-6 months leveling to VR14 just to have fun competing in trials which is something I do regularly with my sorc.

I would never go back to play another class if it meant having to go back to questing to V14 (I would have to grind it to keep sane). Been there, done that, it takes too damn long. I put my time in with my sorcerer and feel that just wanting to try another class shouldn't require me to spend another 3-6 months to get there.

The idea with the CS is that once you put the time in with one class/character you don't have to duplicate that effort if you want to play another class. You stop at L50, yes, but you continue to "rank" up through the CS.

EDIT: Also, personally I feel that this has been a goal for ZOS for a while now and was meant to be implemented specifically for consoles and the "skyrim" crowd used to the CS style constellation UI. Were just the ones who have to pay, test, and deal with the changes. Consoles are there end all be all for this game its blatantly obvious.

kieso

Because veteran ranks were a stupid unneeded addition which bloats the current level system.

Honestly I don't see how people can even question the removal of these ranks.

Samadhi

Do not personally have issue with Veteran Ranks, but think a part of it was how dramatically the exp gains changed.

As a pre-50 character, completing all the quests in a single zone will pass a player through several levels of character growth.

As soon as Veteran Ranks kick in, the rate of leveling becomes significantly more slow.

Think that a lot of players start feeling burnt out because each individual rank requires so much content in order to gain a single attribute and skill point.

If the post-50 zones were dramatically different from pre-50 zones it might have worked; however, they instead end up feeling like pre-50 stuck in molasses.

LonePirate

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Being VR14 forces you to do things you don't want to do.
So lets think about this.

1. You hit VR1 and can go to Cyrodill to level up to VR14 which is fine so long as you don't want to survive any fight with VR14 at all ever and be frustrated while you level. That will be frustrating

2. Go to craglorn. Ok except Craglorn is a VR10+ zone and most groups don't want to carry you. So you can grind but that isn't fun for everyone.

3. Gold and Silver which is currently the best way to level VR ranks. So congrats you just saved the world and brought some form of piece and everyone knows you you super amazing hero you. Now go do it 2 more times while no one knows you.

With the removal of vet ranks and going to 50

1. Be level 50 go to Cyrodill and be competitive.= It works
2. Get to 50 and Go to Craglorn= you don't have to be carried since you are not 13 levels away from everyone else
3. You can go to other territories if you want but you don't actually have to.= Gives the choice without feeling forced.

Constantly adding levels just puts new players farther away from existing players making a huge disconnect. Putting a cap allows newer players to play with existing players and makes everyone happy.

Imagine if you just started playing WoW and they didn't offer the level to 90 option. You start and there is no one in the starting zones. You are lonely and no one to group with. And now you have 10 years of content to complete by yourself. And you can't complete all of it because all the level 90+ is in the last zone spamming LFG while you are in a huge world....alone.

Make sense or did I ramble too much?

Let me provide a concise summary of this post. You don't like playing the game how it is currently designed. You also would prefer a complete overhaul of the game instead of offering a shortcut system like the one you mentioned or the one ZOS currently uses on the PTS which could be implemented on the live server with far less effort and no game overhaul?

Why in the world would any sensible person support your position?

ers101284b14_ESO

LonePirate wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Being VR14 forces you to do things you don't want to do.
So lets think about this.

1. You hit VR1 and can go to Cyrodill to level up to VR14 which is fine so long as you don't want to survive any fight with VR14 at all ever and be frustrated while you level. That will be frustrating

2. Go to craglorn. Ok except Craglorn is a VR10+ zone and most groups don't want to carry you. So you can grind but that isn't fun for everyone.

3. Gold and Silver which is currently the best way to level VR ranks. So congrats you just saved the world and brought some form of piece and everyone knows you you super amazing hero you. Now go do it 2 more times while no one knows you.

With the removal of vet ranks and going to 50

1. Be level 50 go to Cyrodill and be competitive.= It works
2. Get to 50 and Go to Craglorn= you don't have to be carried since you are not 13 levels away from everyone else
3. You can go to other territories if you want but you don't actually have to.= Gives the choice without feeling forced.

Constantly adding levels just puts new players farther away from existing players making a huge disconnect. Putting a cap allows newer players to play with existing players and makes everyone happy.

Imagine if you just started playing WoW and they didn't offer the level to 90 option. You start and there is no one in the starting zones. You are lonely and no one to group with. And now you have 10 years of content to complete by yourself. And you can't complete all of it because all the level 90+ is in the last zone spamming LFG while you are in a huge world....alone.

Make sense or did I ramble too much?

Let me provide a concise summary of this post. You don't like playing the game how it is currently designed. You also would prefer a complete overhaul of the game instead of offering a shortcut system like the one you mentioned or the one ZOS currently uses on the PTS which could be implemented on the live server with far less effort and no game overhaul?

Why in the world would any sensible person support your position?

No I would like a system that allows you to choose how you want to play it. Meaning you can do any and all content not be forced into one or have to pay to skip it if you don't like it. Taking out vet ranks is not going to make you skip any system its going to give you the option to do them instead of forcing you into it.

Lets put it this way

Player 1 hits VR1 and endgame to you is PVP so you want to PVP. Well great but you will get facerolled over by a VR14 everytime and continually losing is not fun.

Player 2 feels trials and raids are endgame they enjoy. They hit VR1 and want to do trials, Tough crap your aren't VR14 you will do nothing but die and hold your group back.

Player 3 wants to quest only. Great they can do silver and gold and get levels and progress through good for him.

2/3 players not happy.

With Champion System after level 50 scale

Player 1 wants to PVP hits 50 great he can PVP and earn Champion points. His character progresses while not getting murdered by everyone on the field every 10 seconds. Winning is fun

Player 2 Wants to do trials. Great now he can because everyone is level 50 and he holds no one back based on his level. He also earns Champion points and can still progress his character. He now has fun

Player 3 wants to quest. He does silver and gold while getting Champion points and can still progress his character. He is still happy

3/3 players happy.

LonePirate

kieso wrote: »

Because veteran ranks were a stupid unneeded addition which bloats the current level system.

Honestly I don't see how people can even question the removal of these ranks.

Unless you were one of the Beta testers in early to mid 2013, then you never played the game when veteran ranks did not exist. Your profile indicates you are not one of those people. You are in no position to say they are an unneeded addition because you have no experience of when they did not exist.

And while this is not directed specifically at you, are people unaware of the template system in the PTS that allows you to create a brand new VR14 character? Why aren't people clamoring for this option to be implemented, especially those complaining about the hassle of levelling alts? Wouldn't that be a better use of ZOS' limited time than a complete overhaul of the game?

Keiffo

Apparently tons of people haven't even enjoyed playing the game. 100% of groups I play with in craglorn skip through all the NPC talk and complain if I listen to it.

I've completd about 15-20 quests in Craglorn and I couldn't tell you one thing about any of those quests. Everything had to be skipped. That describes a job and not a game.

With the removal of veteran ranks, people can listen to all NPC conversations outside of Craglorn, take their time in other alliances AND have the option to jump into end game content as soon as they feel like it.

Just grinding one area to VR14 should have equal efficiency to a quester listening to all the dialogue.

DeLindsay

The LEVEL cap was always 50. ZoS just added Veteran Ranks as a form of a gear grind (back when you got basically nothing for each new VR) like in most MMO's that have tiered gear once you hit level cap, that's Veteran gear for ESO. Even now with SO out, if you compare the stats of a drop from it vs a crafted item of = VR and = improvement tier, they are exactly the same, only the set bonuses are different/better. That means ESO's tiered gear (until the new "season" gear comes out in the future) is via the various Veteran Ranks. They only recently added a SP/AP bonus to each VR to give it a better feel of vertical progression, but up through when we had VR12 there was nothing but shiny gear/food/pots that made any difference between a VR1 and VR12.

The cap should have always been LvL 50 with nothing added. Cadwell's Silver/Gold should've been to sabotage/subvert/infiltrate the opposing Faction with that Faction's King/Queen as the final boss, not just do the exact same quests as if you were that Faction. ZoS realized they totally screwed up the system past Coldharbour and even though it was their dream of how the game would work they had massive outcry from players so they are changing it. Veteran Ranks will be removed and until we get an official xpac, LvL 50 will be the actual cap with horizontal progression via the Champion System. When we get an official xpac (maybe in 2015, maybe not) I would expect the actual level cap to increase to 55 or 60 while adding to the Champion System via new Constellations or additional points over the 100 per Star.

Minack

Grinding out veteran ranks is as appealing as an overflowing dumpster. Encouraging players to do it for multiple alts should be classified as a crime against humanity. It's just too bad that it took ZOS half a year to finally listen to their players.

Zorrashi

To the OP:

To be honest, it always seemed to me that the implementation of VR was, in a few ways, not really appealing since the beginning. The original vision included VR ranks being leveled only through PvP and group-oriented play. But through various accounts of player feedback, they determined that a large amount of the populace did not like that.
Hence the last-minuet implementation of Cadwell's Silver and Gold through a story loophole. Then there were complaints about the difficulty, which was in part meant to coerce and encourage players into grouping. So the VR-nerf came to make it more soloable. But still more compaints about the system arrived.

To a significant degree, the VR system was simply not appealing to many players. Some would even go so far as to call it a failure (not me, but others...).

For such a large part of the game, a part that effectively acts as a barrier to many, certain players find the content available at a lot of those levels as 'boring' or 'not really fun'. But for that content to be so prevalent and so long-lasting (unless you grind) the VR system effectively becomes a bog in the player's experience and hardly worthy of praise.

The discontent in the current VR system has apparently gained enough attention to warrant the VR-system's demise in favor of a new one. I hope this gives a bit of perspective.

kieso

LonePirate wrote: »

kieso wrote: »

Because veteran ranks were a stupid unneeded addition which bloats the current level system.

Honestly I don't see how people can even question the removal of these ranks.

Unless you were one of the Beta testers in early to mid 2013, then you never played the game when veteran ranks did not exist. Your profile indicates you are not one of those people. You are in no position to say they are an unneeded addition because you have no experience of when they did not exist.

And while this is not directed specifically at you, are people unaware of the template system in the PTS that allows you to create a brand new VR14 character? Why aren't people clamoring for this option to be implemented, especially those complaining about the hassle of levelling alts? Wouldn't that be a better use of ZOS' limited time than a complete overhaul of the game?

Hah that just says I wasn't one of the idiots who came out with a silly idea as Vet ranks; because you know the system is stupid hence why its being revamped. Also forum entry has nothing to do with game entry because I was in Beta I forgot when, perhaps summer of 2013 but I didn't play much and got to like level 12. so GG.

LonePirate

kieso wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

kieso wrote: »

Because veteran ranks were a stupid unneeded addition which bloats the current level system.

Honestly I don't see how people can even question the removal of these ranks.

Unless you were one of the Beta testers in early to mid 2013, then you never played the game when veteran ranks did not exist. Your profile indicates you are not one of those people. You are in no position to say they are an unneeded addition because you have no experience of when they did not exist.

And while this is not directed specifically at you, are people unaware of the template system in the PTS that allows you to create a brand new VR14 character? Why aren't people clamoring for this option to be implemented, especially those complaining about the hassle of levelling alts? Wouldn't that be a better use of ZOS' limited time than a complete overhaul of the game?

Hah that just says I wasn't one of the idiots who came out with a silly idea as Vet ranks; because you know the system is stupid hence why its being revamped.

On the contrary, I think the VR system is necessary.

I wouldn't have any problems if it were tweaked, such as cutting the XP per level from 1M to 500K or even 250K without changing the XP of quests or mobs. I would also be OK with allowing players to travel to both of the other alliances after defeating Molag Bal. Allowing players to unlock certain PTS style templates as soon as they hit VR1 or VR10 or VR14 or some other condition in order to speed up the leveling of alts is also fine by me.

I simply think the vertical character and gear progression is good to have in the game and it allows for the game to grow in the future. I think it is ridiculous and stupid for ZOS to overhaul the current level system because people are lazy, which is the primary reason people hate it.

cyclonus11

How else will I get those costumes?

OtarTheMad

At first when I read that ZOS was eventually going to get rid of the VR ranks I was a little confused and didn't like it. After thinking about it I think that it will open up the game a lot more and the Champion System will be your progression system now. As of right now I am excited for the change, even though it seems to have come to the expense of things we were all looking forward to since Quakecon, maybe before that: Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Imperial City, Spellcrafting, Wrothgar etc. I think it will mean people will try other classes/builds because it won't be such a grind to level them... the only thing that sucks right now about that is I would love to level my VR 1 NB or my VR 3 Templar when I'm bored of my main(s) but why waste the time?

The only thing I am worried about with the elimination of VR ranks, in probably Update 7, is all of the material needed to make VR 1-14 stuff, what happens to those things? They get eliminated from the game? Changed to mean something else? That is something I would love to know.

Alphashado

OtarTheMad wrote: »

is all of the material needed to make VR 1-14 stuff, what happens to those things? They get eliminated from the game? Changed to mean something else? That is something I would love to know.

That is a very good question that many of us are also wondering and I don't believe they have fully decided yet. If they have, I don't believe they have said anything about it. Personally I am in full support of removing Vet Ranks. That grind is a huge part of the reason many people left ESO. It is a very linear mandatory progression grind.

But in regards to your question, I would like to know as well what they plan on doing with all of the tiered crafting materials and crafting in general once VR are removed. Perhaps it will be incoorperated into the Seasonal gear bracket that has been mentioned in the past.

EQBallzz

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Being VR14 forces you to do things you don't want to do.
So lets think about this.

1. You hit VR1 and can go to Cyrodill to level up to VR14 which is fine so long as you don't want to survive any fight with VR14 at all ever and be frustrated while you level. That will be frustrating

2. Go to craglorn. Ok except Craglorn is a VR10+ zone and most groups don't want to carry you. So you can grind but that isn't fun for everyone.

3. Gold and Silver which is currently the best way to level VR ranks. So congrats you just saved the world and brought some form of piece and everyone knows you you super amazing hero you. Now go do it 2 more times while no one knows you.

With the removal of vet ranks and going to 50

1. Be level 50 go to Cyrodill and be competitive.= It works
2. Get to 50 and Go to Craglorn= you don't have to be carried since you are not 13 levels away from everyone else
3. You can go to other territories if you want but you don't actually have to.= Gives the choice without feeling forced.

Constantly adding levels just puts new players farther away from existing players making a huge disconnect. Putting a cap allows newer players to play with existing players and makes everyone happy.

Imagine if you just started playing WoW and they didn't offer the level to 90 option. You start and there is no one in the starting zones. You are lonely and no one to group with. And now you have 10 years of content to complete by yourself. And you can't complete all of it because all the level 90+ is in the last zone spamming LFG while you are in a huge world....alone.

Make sense or did I ramble too much?

Let me provide a concise summary of this post. You don't like playing the game how it is currently designed. You also would prefer a complete overhaul of the game instead of offering a shortcut system like the one you mentioned or the one ZOS currently uses on the PTS which could be implemented on the live server with far less effort and no game overhaul?

Why in the world would any sensible person support your position?

No I would like a system that allows you to choose how you want to play it. Meaning you can do any and all content not be forced into one or have to pay to skip it if you don't like it. Taking out vet ranks is not going to make you skip any system its going to give you the option to do them instead of forcing you into it.

Lets put it this way

Player 1 hits VR1 and endgame to you is PVP so you want to PVP. Well great but you will get facerolled over by a VR14 everytime and continually losing is not fun.

Player 2 feels trials and raids are endgame they enjoy. They hit VR1 and want to do trials, Tough crap your aren't VR14 you will do nothing but die and hold your group back.

Player 3 wants to quest only. Great they can do silver and gold and get levels and progress through good for him.

2/3 players not happy.

With Champion System after level 50 scale

Player 1 wants to PVP hits 50 great he can PVP and earn Champion points. His character progresses while not getting murdered by everyone on the field every 10 seconds. Winning is fun

Player 2 Wants to do trials. Great now he can because everyone is level 50 and he holds no one back based on his level. He also earns Champion points and can still progress his character. He now has fun

Player 3 wants to quest. He does silver and gold while getting Champion points and can still progress his character. He is still happy

3/3 players happy.

You are proving the point of why this change SUCKS for some ppl. Your 3/3 only counts for player 3 if he hasn't done silver/gold already. If he has when this goes live (even if he has done it multiple times) it will count for NOTHING. No CP AT ALL. Player 3 most certainly NOT HAPPY. Sure, new players will be fine because they haven't completed it yet but that is not everyone by any stretch.

EQBallzz

Keiffo wrote: »

Apparently tons of people haven't even enjoyed playing the game. 100% of groups I play with in craglorn skip through all the NPC talk and complain if I listen to it.

I've completd about 15-20 quests in Craglorn and I couldn't tell you one thing about any of those quests. Everything had to be skipped. That describes a job and not a game.

With the removal of veteran ranks, people can listen to all NPC conversations outside of Craglorn, take their time in other alliances AND have the option to jump into end game content as soon as they feel like it.

Just grinding one area to VR14 should have equal efficiency to a quester listening to all the dialogue.

Uhhh..V1-14 is all solo content now. You can listen to whatever you want. Craglorn will be group content later. You will still have ppl rushing you to not listen to quest dialog. Nothing you are talking about will change with the system but points for imagination I guess?

ers101284b14_ESO

EQBallzz wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Being VR14 forces you to do things you don't want to do.
So lets think about this.

1. You hit VR1 and can go to Cyrodill to level up to VR14 which is fine so long as you don't want to survive any fight with VR14 at all ever and be frustrated while you level. That will be frustrating

2. Go to craglorn. Ok except Craglorn is a VR10+ zone and most groups don't want to carry you. So you can grind but that isn't fun for everyone.

3. Gold and Silver which is currently the best way to level VR ranks. So congrats you just saved the world and brought some form of piece and everyone knows you you super amazing hero you. Now go do it 2 more times while no one knows you.

With the removal of vet ranks and going to 50

1. Be level 50 go to Cyrodill and be competitive.= It works
2. Get to 50 and Go to Craglorn= you don't have to be carried since you are not 13 levels away from everyone else
3. You can go to other territories if you want but you don't actually have to.= Gives the choice without feeling forced.

Constantly adding levels just puts new players farther away from existing players making a huge disconnect. Putting a cap allows newer players to play with existing players and makes everyone happy.

Imagine if you just started playing WoW and they didn't offer the level to 90 option. You start and there is no one in the starting zones. You are lonely and no one to group with. And now you have 10 years of content to complete by yourself. And you can't complete all of it because all the level 90+ is in the last zone spamming LFG while you are in a huge world....alone.

Make sense or did I ramble too much?

Let me provide a concise summary of this post. You don't like playing the game how it is currently designed. You also would prefer a complete overhaul of the game instead of offering a shortcut system like the one you mentioned or the one ZOS currently uses on the PTS which could be implemented on the live server with far less effort and no game overhaul?

Why in the world would any sensible person support your position?

No I would like a system that allows you to choose how you want to play it. Meaning you can do any and all content not be forced into one or have to pay to skip it if you don't like it. Taking out vet ranks is not going to make you skip any system its going to give you the option to do them instead of forcing you into it.

Lets put it this way

Player 1 hits VR1 and endgame to you is PVP so you want to PVP. Well great but you will get facerolled over by a VR14 everytime and continually losing is not fun.

Player 2 feels trials and raids are endgame they enjoy. They hit VR1 and want to do trials, Tough crap your aren't VR14 you will do nothing but die and hold your group back.

Player 3 wants to quest only. Great they can do silver and gold and get levels and progress through good for him.

2/3 players not happy.

With Champion System after level 50 scale

Player 1 wants to PVP hits 50 great he can PVP and earn Champion points. His character progresses while not getting murdered by everyone on the field every 10 seconds. Winning is fun

Player 2 Wants to do trials. Great now he can because everyone is level 50 and he holds no one back based on his level. He also earns Champion points and can still progress his character. He now has fun

Player 3 wants to quest. He does silver and gold while getting Champion points and can still progress his character. He is still happy

3/3 players happy.

You are proving the point of why this change SUCKS for some ppl. Your 3/3 only counts for player 3 if he hasn't done silver/gold already. If he has when this goes live (even if he has done it multiple times) it will count for NOTHING. No CP AT ALL. Player 3 most certainly NOT HAPPY. Sure, new players will be fine because they haven't completed it yet but that is not everyone by any stretch.

So the only thing that current VR14 player want is to go back and do quests they already have? Cause as a VR 14 I do trials, repeatable quests, some PVP. YOu already completed it. So if all you want is to go back and re-do all those quests yet again you are going to have to go make an alt anyway. if you make an alt to do gold and silver guess what! Your still going to get CP!. So what are you doing as a VR14?

LtCrunch

This is where seasonal gear is going to come into play. It will offer a form of vertical progression to strive towards in the form of gear. Champion points are also another form of vertical progression(and better than Vet ranks IMO). Just because there isn't a higher level attached to your name doesn't mean there isn't vertical progression.

Plus nobody has said we won't ever see a level cap increase in the future. The only thing stated is that the level cap is going to be 50 once vet ranks are gone.

LtCrunch

EQBallzz wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Being VR14 forces you to do things you don't want to do.
So lets think about this.

1. You hit VR1 and can go to Cyrodill to level up to VR14 which is fine so long as you don't want to survive any fight with VR14 at all ever and be frustrated while you level. That will be frustrating

2. Go to craglorn. Ok except Craglorn is a VR10+ zone and most groups don't want to carry you. So you can grind but that isn't fun for everyone.

3. Gold and Silver which is currently the best way to level VR ranks. So congrats you just saved the world and brought some form of piece and everyone knows you you super amazing hero you. Now go do it 2 more times while no one knows you.

With the removal of vet ranks and going to 50

1. Be level 50 go to Cyrodill and be competitive.= It works
2. Get to 50 and Go to Craglorn= you don't have to be carried since you are not 13 levels away from everyone else
3. You can go to other territories if you want but you don't actually have to.= Gives the choice without feeling forced.

Constantly adding levels just puts new players farther away from existing players making a huge disconnect. Putting a cap allows newer players to play with existing players and makes everyone happy.

Imagine if you just started playing WoW and they didn't offer the level to 90 option. You start and there is no one in the starting zones. You are lonely and no one to group with. And now you have 10 years of content to complete by yourself. And you can't complete all of it because all the level 90+ is in the last zone spamming LFG while you are in a huge world....alone.

Make sense or did I ramble too much?

Let me provide a concise summary of this post. You don't like playing the game how it is currently designed. You also would prefer a complete overhaul of the game instead of offering a shortcut system like the one you mentioned or the one ZOS currently uses on the PTS which could be implemented on the live server with far less effort and no game overhaul?

Why in the world would any sensible person support your position?

No I would like a system that allows you to choose how you want to play it. Meaning you can do any and all content not be forced into one or have to pay to skip it if you don't like it. Taking out vet ranks is not going to make you skip any system its going to give you the option to do them instead of forcing you into it.

Lets put it this way

Player 1 hits VR1 and endgame to you is PVP so you want to PVP. Well great but you will get facerolled over by a VR14 everytime and continually losing is not fun.

Player 2 feels trials and raids are endgame they enjoy. They hit VR1 and want to do trials, Tough crap your aren't VR14 you will do nothing but die and hold your group back.

Player 3 wants to quest only. Great they can do silver and gold and get levels and progress through good for him.

2/3 players not happy.

With Champion System after level 50 scale

Player 1 wants to PVP hits 50 great he can PVP and earn Champion points. His character progresses while not getting murdered by everyone on the field every 10 seconds. Winning is fun

Player 2 Wants to do trials. Great now he can because everyone is level 50 and he holds no one back based on his level. He also earns Champion points and can still progress his character. He now has fun

Player 3 wants to quest. He does silver and gold while getting Champion points and can still progress his character. He is still happy

3/3 players happy.

You are proving the point of why this change SUCKS for some ppl. Your 3/3 only counts for player 3 if he hasn't done silver/gold already. If he has when this goes live (even if he has done it multiple times) it will count for NOTHING. No CP AT ALL. Player 3 most certainly NOT HAPPY. Sure, new players will be fine because they haven't completed it yet but that is not everyone by any stretch.

Trials, Dungeons, PVP, daily quests(Undaunted, Cyrodiil, Craglorn), etc. are all ways to progress within the champion system even if you have already done silver/gold. My main is a VR14 and I can't wait until 1.6.

PBpsy

You are right. The vet system removal was made just to bring back the most lazy in fickle type of mmo player.This of course will not be enough to satisfy them since these are the type of players that scream for nerfs and are appalled that /godmode and /addlevel isn't a thing.

EQBallzz

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Being VR14 forces you to do things you don't want to do.
So lets think about this.

1. You hit VR1 and can go to Cyrodill to level up to VR14 which is fine so long as you don't want to survive any fight with VR14 at all ever and be frustrated while you level. That will be frustrating

2. Go to craglorn. Ok except Craglorn is a VR10+ zone and most groups don't want to carry you. So you can grind but that isn't fun for everyone.

3. Gold and Silver which is currently the best way to level VR ranks. So congrats you just saved the world and brought some form of piece and everyone knows you you super amazing hero you. Now go do it 2 more times while no one knows you.

With the removal of vet ranks and going to 50

1. Be level 50 go to Cyrodill and be competitive.= It works
2. Get to 50 and Go to Craglorn= you don't have to be carried since you are not 13 levels away from everyone else
3. You can go to other territories if you want but you don't actually have to.= Gives the choice without feeling forced.

Constantly adding levels just puts new players farther away from existing players making a huge disconnect. Putting a cap allows newer players to play with existing players and makes everyone happy.

Imagine if you just started playing WoW and they didn't offer the level to 90 option. You start and there is no one in the starting zones. You are lonely and no one to group with. And now you have 10 years of content to complete by yourself. And you can't complete all of it because all the level 90+ is in the last zone spamming LFG while you are in a huge world....alone.

Make sense or did I ramble too much?

Let me provide a concise summary of this post. You don't like playing the game how it is currently designed. You also would prefer a complete overhaul of the game instead of offering a shortcut system like the one you mentioned or the one ZOS currently uses on the PTS which could be implemented on the live server with far less effort and no game overhaul?

Why in the world would any sensible person support your position?

No I would like a system that allows you to choose how you want to play it. Meaning you can do any and all content not be forced into one or have to pay to skip it if you don't like it. Taking out vet ranks is not going to make you skip any system its going to give you the option to do them instead of forcing you into it.

Lets put it this way

Player 1 hits VR1 and endgame to you is PVP so you want to PVP. Well great but you will get facerolled over by a VR14 everytime and continually losing is not fun.

Player 2 feels trials and raids are endgame they enjoy. They hit VR1 and want to do trials, Tough crap your aren't VR14 you will do nothing but die and hold your group back.

Player 3 wants to quest only. Great they can do silver and gold and get levels and progress through good for him.

2/3 players not happy.

With Champion System after level 50 scale

Player 1 wants to PVP hits 50 great he can PVP and earn Champion points. His character progresses while not getting murdered by everyone on the field every 10 seconds. Winning is fun

Player 2 Wants to do trials. Great now he can because everyone is level 50 and he holds no one back based on his level. He also earns Champion points and can still progress his character. He now has fun

Player 3 wants to quest. He does silver and gold while getting Champion points and can still progress his character. He is still happy

3/3 players happy.

You are proving the point of why this change SUCKS for some ppl. Your 3/3 only counts for player 3 if he hasn't done silver/gold already. If he has when this goes live (even if he has done it multiple times) it will count for NOTHING. No CP AT ALL. Player 3 most certainly NOT HAPPY. Sure, new players will be fine because they haven't completed it yet but that is not everyone by any stretch.

So the only thing that current VR14 player want is to go back and do quests they already have? Cause as a VR 14 I do trials, repeatable quests, some PVP. YOu already completed it. So if all you want is to go back and re-do all those quests yet again you are going to have to go make an alt anyway. if you make an alt to do gold and silver guess what! Your still going to get CP!. So what are you doing as a VR14?

Wow. You really have trouble comprehending this stuff. NO, we don't want to go back and do what we already did again. We want *some* form of compensation for the immense effort it took to do it the first time. Whether that's a ratio of the XP it took converted into CP or some flat CP value per vet level. Something. *ANYTHING*.

As a V14 if you want to do trials, PvP and a few repeatable quests you will not be earning very many CP points compared to the millions of XP already earned in silver/gold..that's the point. At least with some credit for that huge amount of consumed content you are not starting at a huge disadvantage for already having completed it.

ers101284b14_ESO

EQBallzz wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Being VR14 forces you to do things you don't want to do.
So lets think about this.

1. You hit VR1 and can go to Cyrodill to level up to VR14 which is fine so long as you don't want to survive any fight with VR14 at all ever and be frustrated while you level. That will be frustrating

2. Go to craglorn. Ok except Craglorn is a VR10+ zone and most groups don't want to carry you. So you can grind but that isn't fun for everyone.

3. Gold and Silver which is currently the best way to level VR ranks. So congrats you just saved the world and brought some form of piece and everyone knows you you super amazing hero you. Now go do it 2 more times while no one knows you.

With the removal of vet ranks and going to 50

1. Be level 50 go to Cyrodill and be competitive.= It works
2. Get to 50 and Go to Craglorn= you don't have to be carried since you are not 13 levels away from everyone else
3. You can go to other territories if you want but you don't actually have to.= Gives the choice without feeling forced.

Constantly adding levels just puts new players farther away from existing players making a huge disconnect. Putting a cap allows newer players to play with existing players and makes everyone happy.

Imagine if you just started playing WoW and they didn't offer the level to 90 option. You start and there is no one in the starting zones. You are lonely and no one to group with. And now you have 10 years of content to complete by yourself. And you can't complete all of it because all the level 90+ is in the last zone spamming LFG while you are in a huge world....alone.

Make sense or did I ramble too much?

Let me provide a concise summary of this post. You don't like playing the game how it is currently designed. You also would prefer a complete overhaul of the game instead of offering a shortcut system like the one you mentioned or the one ZOS currently uses on the PTS which could be implemented on the live server with far less effort and no game overhaul?

Why in the world would any sensible person support your position?

No I would like a system that allows you to choose how you want to play it. Meaning you can do any and all content not be forced into one or have to pay to skip it if you don't like it. Taking out vet ranks is not going to make you skip any system its going to give you the option to do them instead of forcing you into it.

Lets put it this way

Player 1 hits VR1 and endgame to you is PVP so you want to PVP. Well great but you will get facerolled over by a VR14 everytime and continually losing is not fun.

Player 2 feels trials and raids are endgame they enjoy. They hit VR1 and want to do trials, Tough crap your aren't VR14 you will do nothing but die and hold your group back.

Player 3 wants to quest only. Great they can do silver and gold and get levels and progress through good for him.

2/3 players not happy.

With Champion System after level 50 scale

Player 1 wants to PVP hits 50 great he can PVP and earn Champion points. His character progresses while not getting murdered by everyone on the field every 10 seconds. Winning is fun

Player 2 Wants to do trials. Great now he can because everyone is level 50 and he holds no one back based on his level. He also earns Champion points and can still progress his character. He now has fun

Player 3 wants to quest. He does silver and gold while getting Champion points and can still progress his character. He is still happy

3/3 players happy.

You are proving the point of why this change SUCKS for some ppl. Your 3/3 only counts for player 3 if he hasn't done silver/gold already. If he has when this goes live (even if he has done it multiple times) it will count for NOTHING. No CP AT ALL. Player 3 most certainly NOT HAPPY. Sure, new players will be fine because they haven't completed it yet but that is not everyone by any stretch.

So the only thing that current VR14 player want is to go back and do quests they already have? Cause as a VR 14 I do trials, repeatable quests, some PVP. YOu already completed it. So if all you want is to go back and re-do all those quests yet again you are going to have to go make an alt anyway. if you make an alt to do gold and silver guess what! Your still going to get CP!. So what are you doing as a VR14?

Wow. You really have trouble comprehending this stuff. NO, we don't want to go back and do what we already did again. We want *some* form of compensation for the immense effort it took to do it the first time. Whether that's a ratio of the XP it took converted into CP or some flat CP value per vet level. Something. *ANYTHING*.

As a V14 if you want to do trials, PvP and a few repeatable quests you will not be earning very many CP points compared to the millions of XP already earned in silver/gold..that's the point. At least with some credit for that huge amount of consumed content you are not starting at a huge disadvantage for already having completed it.

All you got are insults? Really. I did Gold and silver before the nerf as far as I'm concerned none of you have earned anything at all. And I know you people weren't there cause I was alone during all of it.

Also they already said that lower VR zones are going to have less XP than upper VR zones. That means you as a VR 14 will be earning XP faster than a fresh VR1.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments.

EQBallzz

Brandalf wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Being VR14 forces you to do things you don't want to do.
So lets think about this.

1. You hit VR1 and can go to Cyrodill to level up to VR14 which is fine so long as you don't want to survive any fight with VR14 at all ever and be frustrated while you level. That will be frustrating

2. Go to craglorn. Ok except Craglorn is a VR10+ zone and most groups don't want to carry you. So you can grind but that isn't fun for everyone.

3. Gold and Silver which is currently the best way to level VR ranks. So congrats you just saved the world and brought some form of piece and everyone knows you you super amazing hero you. Now go do it 2 more times while no one knows you.

With the removal of vet ranks and going to 50

1. Be level 50 go to Cyrodill and be competitive.= It works
2. Get to 50 and Go to Craglorn= you don't have to be carried since you are not 13 levels away from everyone else
3. You can go to other territories if you want but you don't actually have to.= Gives the choice without feeling forced.

Constantly adding levels just puts new players farther away from existing players making a huge disconnect. Putting a cap allows newer players to play with existing players and makes everyone happy.

Imagine if you just started playing WoW and they didn't offer the level to 90 option. You start and there is no one in the starting zones. You are lonely and no one to group with. And now you have 10 years of content to complete by yourself. And you can't complete all of it because all the level 90+ is in the last zone spamming LFG while you are in a huge world....alone.

Make sense or did I ramble too much?

Let me provide a concise summary of this post. You don't like playing the game how it is currently designed. You also would prefer a complete overhaul of the game instead of offering a shortcut system like the one you mentioned or the one ZOS currently uses on the PTS which could be implemented on the live server with far less effort and no game overhaul?

Why in the world would any sensible person support your position?

No I would like a system that allows you to choose how you want to play it. Meaning you can do any and all content not be forced into one or have to pay to skip it if you don't like it. Taking out vet ranks is not going to make you skip any system its going to give you the option to do them instead of forcing you into it.

Lets put it this way

Player 1 hits VR1 and endgame to you is PVP so you want to PVP. Well great but you will get facerolled over by a VR14 everytime and continually losing is not fun.

Player 2 feels trials and raids are endgame they enjoy. They hit VR1 and want to do trials, Tough crap your aren't VR14 you will do nothing but die and hold your group back.

Player 3 wants to quest only. Great they can do silver and gold and get levels and progress through good for him.

2/3 players not happy.

With Champion System after level 50 scale

Player 1 wants to PVP hits 50 great he can PVP and earn Champion points. His character progresses while not getting murdered by everyone on the field every 10 seconds. Winning is fun

Player 2 Wants to do trials. Great now he can because everyone is level 50 and he holds no one back based on his level. He also earns Champion points and can still progress his character. He now has fun

Player 3 wants to quest. He does silver and gold while getting Champion points and can still progress his character. He is still happy

3/3 players happy.

You are proving the point of why this change SUCKS for some ppl. Your 3/3 only counts for player 3 if he hasn't done silver/gold already. If he has when this goes live (even if he has done it multiple times) it will count for NOTHING. No CP AT ALL. Player 3 most certainly NOT HAPPY. Sure, new players will be fine because they haven't completed it yet but that is not everyone by any stretch.

Trials, Dungeons, PVP, daily quests(Undaunted, Cyrodiil, Craglorn), etc. are all ways to progress within the champion system even if you have already done silver/gold. My main is a VR14 and I can't wait until 1.6.

If you really believe that trials (which require an organized, balanced and skilled team of 12 people all online at the same time) is equal to 14 vet levels of solo content with huge XP rewards for the story missions is the same..there is little hope for you. Most people don't have the opportunity to access trials for numerous reasons so no it's not equal. Undaunted and Craglorn are also GROUP content so no..it's not an substitute for XP-rich SOLO content. Cyrodiil is PvP which by it's very definition is not PvE content and has historically provided terrible XP gain. Your examples of alternative XP sources = FAIL.

LonePirate

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Being VR14 forces you to do things you don't want to do.
So lets think about this.

1. You hit VR1 and can go to Cyrodill to level up to VR14 which is fine so long as you don't want to survive any fight with VR14 at all ever and be frustrated while you level. That will be frustrating

2. Go to craglorn. Ok except Craglorn is a VR10+ zone and most groups don't want to carry you. So you can grind but that isn't fun for everyone.

3. Gold and Silver which is currently the best way to level VR ranks. So congrats you just saved the world and brought some form of piece and everyone knows you you super amazing hero you. Now go do it 2 more times while no one knows you.

With the removal of vet ranks and going to 50

1. Be level 50 go to Cyrodill and be competitive.= It works
2. Get to 50 and Go to Craglorn= you don't have to be carried since you are not 13 levels away from everyone else
3. You can go to other territories if you want but you don't actually have to.= Gives the choice without feeling forced.

Constantly adding levels just puts new players farther away from existing players making a huge disconnect. Putting a cap allows newer players to play with existing players and makes everyone happy.

Imagine if you just started playing WoW and they didn't offer the level to 90 option. You start and there is no one in the starting zones. You are lonely and no one to group with. And now you have 10 years of content to complete by yourself. And you can't complete all of it because all the level 90+ is in the last zone spamming LFG while you are in a huge world....alone.

Make sense or did I ramble too much?

Let me provide a concise summary of this post. You don't like playing the game how it is currently designed. You also would prefer a complete overhaul of the game instead of offering a shortcut system like the one you mentioned or the one ZOS currently uses on the PTS which could be implemented on the live server with far less effort and no game overhaul?

Why in the world would any sensible person support your position?

No I would like a system that allows you to choose how you want to play it. Meaning you can do any and all content not be forced into one or have to pay to skip it if you don't like it. Taking out vet ranks is not going to make you skip any system its going to give you the option to do them instead of forcing you into it.

Lets put it this way

Player 1 hits VR1 and endgame to you is PVP so you want to PVP. Well great but you will get facerolled over by a VR14 everytime and continually losing is not fun.

Player 2 feels trials and raids are endgame they enjoy. They hit VR1 and want to do trials, Tough crap your aren't VR14 you will do nothing but die and hold your group back.

Player 3 wants to quest only. Great they can do silver and gold and get levels and progress through good for him.

2/3 players not happy.

With Champion System after level 50 scale

Player 1 wants to PVP hits 50 great he can PVP and earn Champion points. His character progresses while not getting murdered by everyone on the field every 10 seconds. Winning is fun

Player 2 Wants to do trials. Great now he can because everyone is level 50 and he holds no one back based on his level. He also earns Champion points and can still progress his character. He now has fun

Player 3 wants to quest. He does silver and gold while getting Champion points and can still progress his character. He is still happy

3/3 players happy.

You are proving the point of why this change SUCKS for some ppl. Your 3/3 only counts for player 3 if he hasn't done silver/gold already. If he has when this goes live (even if he has done it multiple times) it will count for NOTHING. No CP AT ALL. Player 3 most certainly NOT HAPPY. Sure, new players will be fine because they haven't completed it yet but that is not everyone by any stretch.

So the only thing that current VR14 player want is to go back and do quests they already have? Cause as a VR 14 I do trials, repeatable quests, some PVP. YOu already completed it. So if all you want is to go back and re-do all those quests yet again you are going to have to go make an alt anyway. if you make an alt to do gold and silver guess what! Your still going to get CP!. So what are you doing as a VR14?

Wow. You really have trouble comprehending this stuff. NO, we don't want to go back and do what we already did again. We want *some* form of compensation for the immense effort it took to do it the first time. Whether that's a ratio of the XP it took converted into CP or some flat CP value per vet level. Something. *ANYTHING*.

As a V14 if you want to do trials, PvP and a few repeatable quests you will not be earning very many CP points compared to the millions of XP already earned in silver/gold..that's the point. At least with some credit for that huge amount of consumed content you are not starting at a huge disadvantage for already having completed it.

I did Gold and silver before the nerf as far as I'm concerned none of you have earned anything at all. And I know you people weren't there cause I was alone during all of it.

Um, you are not the only one in this thread who did that.