1.6 changes to ult gain is a slap in the face to PvE players

guybrushtb16_ESO · December 2014

danno816_ESO wrote: »

My kids lost some of the monopoly pieces and they asked me to play using different coloured paperclips instead of the actual pieces. I told them where they can shove their paperclips. I am a serious monopoly player. They wouldn't understand.

You were on the right track. You forgot to mention how it was a slap in the face of all the good monopoly players out there though, before threatening to leave the family taking your wallet with you.

mrkaco_ESO · December 2014

woodsro wrote: »

I'm sorry but generating ultimate by spamming healing springs outside of combat was never an intended mechanic and its about time they fixed this bug.

Ultimate is supposed to just that. It should be meaningful and use should be thought out, not just something you can have on demand like a potion.

I am looking forward for this change. Most of the builds now all center around maximum ultimate generation for pooping them out on top of each other. I do not think ESO meant to make this game Ultimate Pooping Online.

I refused to make a build that relied on ultimate pooping to make me effective and glad that I will now be able generate ultimate at the same pace as my opponents now.

The current system gave too many an always available "I win" button (for both PVE and PVP). Is this the best solution? I do not know, but learn to adapt to the changes or move on.

Samadhi · December 2014

Huggernaut wrote: »

This is exactly what happens every single time a company is stupid enough to try and balance pvp in a pve game.
...

Thought the changes to Ultimate generation were being made because PvE tanks frequently complained they were gaining Ultimate at a much slower rate than PvE DPS builds and wanted the system rebalanced to accommodate that.

Imbalance of ultimate generation rates has not been much of a point of complaint in PvP.

Jaerlach · December 2014

Samadhi wrote: »

Huggernaut wrote: »

This is exactly what happens every single time a company is stupid enough to try and balance pvp in a pve game.
...

Thought the changes to Ultimate generation were being made because PvE tanks frequently complained they were gaining Ultimate at a much slower rate than PvE DPS builds and wanted the system rebalanced to accommodate that.

Imbalance of ultimate generation rates has not been much of a point of complaint in PvP.

There are two issues being addressed:

PVE tanks who weren't werewolves with the Blood Spawn set don't generate ultimate fast enough.

PVP AOE ultimate-spam builds can achieve insane uptime on ultimates, especially ones from rank 19+ PVPers who have at least 1 rank of Combat Frenzy.

Ultimates should not be so rare as they are for PVE tanks (if you are fighting a no-adds boss and wiping in PVE, as a tank, you likely get 1 ultimate every 3 fights if you don't spam healing springs between attempts. Srsly), nor should they probably be cast as often as they can be maintained by certain PVP builds. Even without being a vampire or having former emperor cost reduction, I had the immense pleasure of tearing through an AD zerg on Christmas with my DK, a fight that lasted no more than about 35 seconds, and involved me dropping 3 dragonknight standards and killing about 15-20 people who chose to attack the retreating DC zerg instead of the single DK running in circles through their ranks in his own standard/cinder swarm, spamming impulse as fast as it could possibly be spammed. It was incrediby fun and made me feel like the really OP 1vX DKs, but the point where I had two overlapping DK standards in PVP as a non-Emperor is just not what the game is designed around.

That time felt like farming Spellscar with impulse on my DK, when I can have 3 ultimates down at once. Except it was other players.

Joy_Division · December 2014

Layenem wrote: »

I'd just like to point out that while I'm nervous about what ZOS will be doing with VR's and the quests we've completed and the POTENTIAL exp lost to all of them... There has been ZERO confirmation that we will not be awarded that exp when they finally remove VRs.

Yes there has.

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »
This is in contrast to earlier statements made that there will be more points champion and that this number would be based to a certain upper limit on the account far earned experience. The plan has changed in the meantime and we apologize for the confusion.

Leijona wrote: »
And we can probably assume that there are no plans to credit the account wide experience earned at a later date on the points champion , correct?

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »
This is not planned. As initially written , says that has occurred in the design process reducing the maximum possible points champion and increasing their importance to the originally planned generous distribution of start- Champion points for existing players .
But we want to make sure that players who have already completed most of the content , are not disadvantaged in earnings of other points champion.

Layenem wrote: »

I, for one though, am happy about most of the changes, especially to ultimate gain. Don't tell me you can run trials without it because I've got a guild full of mates that will tell you otherwise.

That's nice for you and your guild. Now try getting some pugs through the Praxis fight in Spindleclutch or the Fire-Breathing Daedroth in Ash City and get back to me.

The only issue I have with the "Ultimate Debacle" is that ZOS let it be a spammable ability for so long when it was originally meant to be used once a fight at the most.

Source? Because you would never assume that your preference would just happen to coincide with ZoS's intentions, would you?

But only the nerd rage.

Way to be objective and understanding of the other perspective.

Kerioko · December 2014

Jaerlach wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

There are two issues being addressed:

PVE tanks who weren't werewolves with the Blood Spawn set don't generate ultimate fast enough.

PVP AOE ultimate-spam builds can achieve insane uptime on ultimates, especially ones from rank 19+ PVPers who have at least 1 rank of Combat Frenzy.

I completely agree with you, AOE ultimate generation is crazy. As a VR1 NB, I could go into spellscar, pull 20+ mobs, drop veil of blades, spam sap essence, and have enough ultimate generation to chain cast bat swarms inside the veil (with fighter's guild passives, stage 4 vamp, and ultimate cost reduction gear).

A person shouldn't be able to drop ultimates on-top of ultimates, as it causes players to become to dependent on them.

For these to truly be ultimate abilities, I think they need to be managed in a way that you don't have permanent upkeep, forcing you to make choices of when to use them.

At the same time, I do think they are overdoing there changes to ult generation...A first nice fix would have been to stop ult generation outside of combat!

LtCrunch · December 2014

While the new changes to the ult generation mechanics might be a tad overly simplified the current system is pretty bad when talking about build diversity and ult generation parity. The new system is going to open the door for more build diversity. There are gonna be people who still wanna drop ultimates like crazy, but if they want to do that they're going to have to sacrifice somewhere else in their build to accomplish that(set bonuses, werewolf/vampire, etc.).

yodased · December 2014

Joejudas wrote: »

People invested money in this company over multiple months based on things they said they would deliver in official statements...and they just said nope never mind about any of that. Companies get sued all the time for stuff like that.

Well noone invested in the company since its privately held. You paid them for a service which they specifically state you have no guarantee of, which you agreed to by logging into the game accepting the terms of service.

Companies certainly do not get 'sued all the time' for upholding the specifics of a contract.

Joejudas · December 2014

@yodased im surprised that you...of all people...would defend this companies terrible decision. Do you think this is going to make your end game pve more enjoyable.....cause it definitely isnt.

yodased · December 2014

Oh, you misread me sir. I am not defending their choices, nor their delivery of said choices.

I am simply saying that threatening a lawsuit or wishing a lawsuit in this context really lowers the chance that your concerns will be taken seriously

We have to make sure, if we choose to let a company know we don't approve of their choices, that its done in such a way that they can take action or converse about it.

In my experience, when empty threats like frivolous lawsuits are thrown around it immediately gets put into either the 1. conjecture or 2. legal department bins.

Also, what I feel is inconsequential to the discussion. It's a video game and I take it as such so honestly it doesn't affect me to the point where I get upset about choices I have no control over.

If I DID however take issue with something they were doing, I would do what I actually have control over and leave the game, since no matter the amount of complaining I do, if I still give them my money every billing cycle they will always win.

Joejudas · December 2014

i agree and i would never take the time to sue a gaming company.....it just seems legally risky to say and do some of the things they did. im not a lawyer though so im talking out of my butt.

yodased · December 2014

Joejudas wrote: »

i agree and i would never take the time to sue a gaming company.....it just seems legally risky to say and do some of the things they did. im not a lawyer though so im talking out of my butt.

My intention was helping ensure we don't approach situations exactly like this again in the future.

olemanwinter · December 2014

Thanks random internet person for proving the other random internet person was not a lawyer. I was about to start asking him probate advice. Whew.

yodased · December 2014

Glad to be of service.

Vizier · December 2014

Teargrants wrote: »

themizario wrote: »

There will be a lot of dead wolves in Cyrodiil.

Bruh, how do you think I build ulti in pvp currently? Cyrodiil is littered w/ dead wolves. Come 1.6, whole raids can just build ulti off of wolf packs, you'll see them just standing there 5 ppl to a wolf just light attacking every 8 sec. 1st step when setting siege? "Everyone stand around the guards and begin your light attack rotation!". Taking a resource? "Light attacks on mender now!" Going into the breach? "Sorcs turn your light attack macro on, we go in in 2 min. Rest of you guys can take a bio." Truly improved game design.

Sure. And when the fighting starts you'll have an ultimate you can't spam. Damn strait it's improved game design. Will be interesting to see what comes of fewer Pulse Monkey, AOE spamming trains dropping continuous ultimate. I'm looking forwards to seeing some different tactics from about 50% of the server.

BBSooner · December 2014

Joejudas wrote: »

I left like three eso fan pages on Facebook tonight over this issue and I'll need to have a conversation with my guild about the possibility I won't be around the game much longer.

Oh .. oh god ... not the eso Facebook fan pages

abigfishy · December 2014

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

I've always read, especially in official announcements preceeding the release of the game, that ESO was designed to be a massive PVP game. ZOS has even built his own graphics engine so as to make sure that they will be able to address the constraints relative to a massive PVP game: their engine has the ability to smoothly display complex graphic scene where 200 players or more are present in the same area. A great technical success in my opinion.

A massive LOL to you. Go to any PvP zone outside Thornblade and it is a wasteland. Deserted. I have ridden around various campaigns for ages trying to find a single player and eventually decided I am the only person on there.

Then if you get into Thronblade even then how many players are there? 300? And what do you get? Massive lag, freezes and the occasional kick from the server. And of the 300 players 250 are running the same build! What a joke.

So what about the other zones? Heck there are often that many people just in Daggerfall let alone the rest of Glenumbra. Multiply that by how many zones? So don't tell me that right now this is a PvP game. This is a PvE game that has a tough of (buggy) PvP and it should remain as such. I am not saying PvP isn't important and shouldn't be fixed but NEVER at the expense of PvE balance.

abigfishy · December 2014

Joejudas wrote: »

Im not saying i would try to stand in court over this...i have better things to do in life.....but the even start your talking about completely alienates everyone who played this game from day 1....and the ult gain nerf makes it even worse. So because a small portion of casual players complained...we all need to learn to play the game all over again and not have a single thing we did count towards anything after the company said it would. How can you possibly defend that ?

not have a single thing we did count towards anything...

Lol at you. So you didn't get a single skillpoint? You didn't get any gear? Not any gold? You didn't get any achievements? You didn't get to go to PvP with your OP FOTM builds and farm Emperors? You didn't get the fun of running trials or playing in the arena?

Nothing? really?

Lol.

Vordae · December 2014

This change is being made only because of PvE. It has nothing to do with PvP. Right now every good pve build in the game is focused on generating the most ult possible besides the tanks. This is a huge problem. The best players shouldn't be be the people who generate the most ult. The good players should be the people who do the most dps, use there CC correctly, target the right mobs, and position correctly. The reason light attacking was picked as the trigger is because to maximize you dps you light attack in between everything even aoe. This will balance out ult generation. So instead of you dps ulting 4-5 times in a fight and your tank only being able to ult once everyone will be at an even rate. This will make it so the tanks get to ult as often as everyone else and have more fun being a tank. This also means they dont have to make every single Trial fight about generating your ult as fast as possible for that next 1 shot mechanic. This change will prove who the really good pve players really are and who was just able to generate ult quickly.

KBKB · December 2014

Welcome to how PvP players feel every patch slugger.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · December 2014

Joejudas wrote: »

People invested money in this company over multiple months based on things they said they would deliver in official statements...and they just said nope never mind about any of that. Companies get sued all the time for stuff like that.

your sub is not an investment its a payment for a service that you received. sorry to tell you the facts. If your in university you pay them, but you are not the boss; you cant just say hey your class is *** change it! Im paying for this, you better do it. reality check. you are buying a product as is and and can choose not to purchase it again. go read the agreement you signed.

Valencer · December 2014

This is going to be a direct nerf to Dragonknights everywhere. How am I supposed to activate my Battle Roar passive every 10 seconds now?

I might get killed now. Why is nobody mentioning this? Why isn't ZOS clarifying why I won't be able to play as I want in Update 6?

I hope this is all just a grave misunderstanding.

Artemiisia · December 2014

its no surprise that DKs will get the nerf hammer sooner or later, if you look at the damage and survivability of all 4 classes. They are for sure the next in line.

eventide03b14a_ESO · December 2014

I don't understand the outrage. The PvE in this game is a faceroll. Anytime I see people fail in PvE it's because they didn't learn how master basic fuctions like dodging and blocking. I'm glad for the change. The way we gained ultimate was just stupid, it trivialized the whole point of them. I honestly hope those that are threatening to quit over this actually do. I want this game to be more challenging than blocking while spamming an AoE and dropping an ultimate every 15 seconds.

Hypertionb14_ESO · December 2014

Because of this topic i googled "Ultimate Pooping GIF" to find something snarky

plenty of stuff but i would like to bring attention to the concept of "Glitter Pills"

search at your own risk.

renton1x1x1 · December 2014

i'd slap myself in the face but i'm too busy learning how to weave properly

Joejudas · January 2015

So I'll say it once again ...everyone complaining about ults dropping to fast should post their best completion time for SO ....I'll wait !

Jaerlach · January 2015

Joejudas wrote: »

So I'll say it once again ...everyone complaining about ults dropping to fast should post their best completion time for SO ....I'll wait !

The current content is tuned for the current system. If ultimates are rarer, the content can be tuned to hinge on less spam and be more punishing if you dont use one at the right times. For ex, people would want to save ults on warrior for the big aoe only and other aoe mechanics might have to be tamed in other ways. But theyre free to adjust content to not require a barrier and veil for every raid wide aoe.

Agree it's the way now but it isn't necessary to keep the content the same.

Joejudas · January 2015

i actually like it explained that way. hmmmmmm

miahq · January 2015

Artemiisia wrote: »

its no surprise that DKs will get the nerf hammer sooner or later, if you look at the damage and survivability of all 4 classes. They are for sure the next in line.

Why not just make the other three better, that's my question...