Please do NOT bring back forward camps!

miahq · December 2014

Why do they have to let people respawn in the first freaking place? I don't really care if people don't like running back, get over it. That's the whole point of such a large map, and it's not like you pay virtually any other real loss for dying. People can't even deal with five minutes of running?

Frankly it seemed like the whole purpose of them was to placate people complaining that they were in any way put out and not able to just teleport anywhere they wanted to go In 2 seconds, as many times as they wanted. Putting forward camps back with respawn? You might as well just go ahead and remove any limits on teleporting at all, because that's all people really want. At which point, I'll just leave pvp to devolve completely into the mindless zerg slap fight that it will inevitably become.

frozywozy · January 2015

Xiphyla wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Xiphyla wrote: »

To be honest without the foward camp , there's more zergballing compared to last time since most of the people are more afraid of dying. With or without forward camp , you still going to get zergs. Only differences is that with forward camp , you spread the fights more on any other areas of cyrodil.

I disagree. With forward camps, you allow people to regroup faster in one location, especially during a long keep assault. People drop 10-15-20camps and after a 30mins of battles, the whole population of 2 factions is concentrated in the same area lagging the server like crazy because they don't have to spawn back far inside another keep, thereby, reducing the latency in the hot zone.

Without the fc , people are already zerging more in 1 concentrated area most of the time anyway. It still going to lag out the server no matter what. What i mean is at least forward camp will bring more fights spread out (not in one concentrated area) in a good way. It benefit the opposition that is defending the keep as well. Maybe if zenimax setup the forwardcamp range = respawn within range only , then it might work out decent. Everyone got thier opinion , i'm just stating mine .

I understand that everyone has his opinion. But your opinion here is that you prefer to not give any true signification or importance to your death because you can respawn right back 40feets behind the battle. That is your opinion.

The fact remains that allowing people to respawn 40feets away from the battle rally everyone in the same hot zone after a 20-30mins fight instead of letting them ride from the closest keep, thereby, reducing latency in the hot zone and forcing people to be more careful and tactician before blindly charging in. It also strongly encourages people to find a group and not play by themselves because riding alone is exactly what gankers are looking for, thus, making you rage even more about horse simulator.

miahq · January 2015

Why not just have forward camps offer buffs to assault/support skills like increased range, radius, or duration. Or buffs to regen when within its radius. Also make them way more expensive, so people aren't just dropping them constantly.

Frankly, I don't understand why they even need to allow fast travel, other than to remove even the smallest of inconvenience from whiny players. You died? Omg, you might have to actuall ripen for a whole 3-5 minutes! Well... isn't that the point? Otherwise you might as well cut down the pvp area to the size of one keep. Anyone who does is instantly re spawned exactly where they fell with no ill effects at all. Then flowers and sunshine rain down from heaven...

Sanct16 · January 2015

miahq wrote: »

Why do they have to let people respawn in the first freaking place? I don't really care if people don't like running back, get over it. That's the whole point of such a large map, and it's not like you pay virtually any other real loss for dying. People can't even deal with five minutes of running?

Frankly it seemed like the whole purpose of them was to placate people complaining that they were in any way put out and not able to just teleport anywhere they wanted to go In 2 seconds, as many times as they wanted. Putting forward camps back with respawn? You might as well just go ahead and remove any limits on teleporting at all, because that's all people really want. At which point, I'll just leave pvp to devolve completely into the mindless zerg slap fight that it will inevitably become.

Oh yeah. Lets all take a bow and sneak on the keep wall. I bet it will be fun when noone attacks anyone because he is too afraid to die.

But hey, I guess thats what you do. Sneak around with a bow, trying to onehit everyone and rage if they don't die.

Xiphyla · January 2015

frozywozy wrote: »

Xiphyla wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Xiphyla wrote: »

To be honest without the foward camp , there's more zergballing compared to last time since most of the people are more afraid of dying. With or without forward camp , you still going to get zergs. Only differences is that with forward camp , you spread the fights more on any other areas of cyrodil.

I disagree. With forward camps, you allow people to regroup faster in one location, especially during a long keep assault. People drop 10-15-20camps and after a 30mins of battles, the whole population of 2 factions is concentrated in the same area lagging the server like crazy because they don't have to spawn back far inside another keep, thereby, reducing the latency in the hot zone.

Without the fc , people are already zerging more in 1 concentrated area most of the time anyway. It still going to lag out the server no matter what. What i mean is at least forward camp will bring more fights spread out (not in one concentrated area) in a good way. It benefit the opposition that is defending the keep as well. Maybe if zenimax setup the forwardcamp range = respawn within range only , then it might work out decent. Everyone got thier opinion , i'm just stating mine .

I understand that everyone has his opinion. But your opinion here is that you prefer to not give any true signification or importance to your death because you can respawn right back 40feets behind the battle. That is your opinion.

The fact remains that allowing people to respawn 40feets away from the battle rally everyone in the same hot zone after a 20-30mins fight instead of letting them ride from the closest keep, thereby, reducing latency in the hot zone and forcing people to be more careful and tactician before blindly charging in. It also strongly encourages people to find a group and not play by themselves because riding alone is exactly what gankers are looking for, thus, making you rage even more about horse simulator.

But what i had seen is just more ad/ep/dc blobbing up even more because they mostly are scared to die (no forward camp) and this cause more zergballing

. Correct me if i'm wrong

.

miahq · January 2015

Sanct16 wrote: »

Oh yeah. Lets all take a bow and sneak on the keep wall. I bet it will be fun when noone attacks anyone because he is too afraid to die.

But hey, I guess thats what you do. Sneak around with a bow, trying to onehit everyone and rage if they don't die.

Or you could just aim a catapult at that section of wall to clear out any archers, considering archers are generally what I'd expect to find on a keep wall. Or you could try blocking as you advance towards a downed wall. If that doesn't help relay the fears of some players about having to suffer the awful effects of actually dying, try hiding behind some of the bigger PCs until the fighting ends...

Seriously? You realize actual real life people have been jumping out of trenches or from behind barriers with the actual possibility of getting shot or killed in real life for centuries... you're too afraid to do it in a video game because it might mean having to inconvenience you for a few minutes? The entire point is supposed to be strategy wins. If you've absolutely no strategy then the numbers are going to shift in the defenders favor and you will lose. What you want is just mob vs mob. Whoever has the most people who can sit there infinitely respawning forever without getting bored and just quitting, wins.

reagen_lionel · January 2015

Xiphyla wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Xiphyla wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Xiphyla wrote: »

To be honest without the foward camp , there's more zergballing compared to last time since most of the people are more afraid of dying. With or without forward camp , you still going to get zergs. Only differences is that with forward camp , you spread the fights more on any other areas of cyrodil.

I disagree. With forward camps, you allow people to regroup faster in one location, especially during a long keep assault. People drop 10-15-20camps and after a 30mins of battles, the whole population of 2 factions is concentrated in the same area lagging the server like crazy because they don't have to spawn back far inside another keep, thereby, reducing the latency in the hot zone.

Without the fc , people are already zerging more in 1 concentrated area most of the time anyway. It still going to lag out the server no matter what. What i mean is at least forward camp will bring more fights spread out (not in one concentrated area) in a good way. It benefit the opposition that is defending the keep as well. Maybe if zenimax setup the forwardcamp range = respawn within range only , then it might work out decent. Everyone got thier opinion , i'm just stating mine .

I understand that everyone has his opinion. But your opinion here is that you prefer to not give any true signification or importance to your death because you can respawn right back 40feets behind the battle. That is your opinion.

The fact remains that allowing people to respawn 40feets away from the battle rally everyone in the same hot zone after a 20-30mins fight instead of letting them ride from the closest keep, thereby, reducing latency in the hot zone and forcing people to be more careful and tactician before blindly charging in. It also strongly encourages people to find a group and not play by themselves because riding alone is exactly what gankers are looking for, thus, making you rage even more about horse simulator.

But what i had seen is just more ad/ep/dc blobbing up even more because they mostly are scared to die (no forward camp) and this cause more zergballing . Correct me if i'm wrong .

A significant reason I just stay out of cyrodil altogether for pvp now. When the few times I do go, its no longer anything to do with pvp anymore. Its just unenjoyable than it was before (even with the exploits that were going on before). And small scale pvp is just not a reliable thing that happens realistically and no real incentive.

Its mostly always been zerg or get out. Just much more so now, I chose to get out. I usually play pvp quite considerably in every mmo I play. This is the first one I just moved away from altogether.

miahq · January 2015

Xiphyla wrote: »

But what i had seen is just more ad/ep/dc blobbing up even more because they mostly are scared to die (no forward camp) and this cause more zergballing . Correct me if i'm wrong .

Seriously though, I don't understand how people who are that afraid of having to suffer the rather bland inconvenience of dying in this game ever started playing to begin with. Getting rid of camps may have made it worse, but putting forward camps back won't get rid of the zerg ball, it will just make AvA less about strategy and more about the size of your zerg. There will still be zergs either way.

If they want to get rid of zerg balls, adding small AoE splash damage to allies is about the only way.

frozywozy · January 2015

reagen_lionel wrote: »

Xiphyla wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Xiphyla wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Xiphyla wrote: »

To be honest without the foward camp , there's more zergballing compared to last time since most of the people are more afraid of dying. With or without forward camp , you still going to get zergs. Only differences is that with forward camp , you spread the fights more on any other areas of cyrodil.

I disagree. With forward camps, you allow people to regroup faster in one location, especially during a long keep assault. People drop 10-15-20camps and after a 30mins of battles, the whole population of 2 factions is concentrated in the same area lagging the server like crazy because they don't have to spawn back far inside another keep, thereby, reducing the latency in the hot zone.

Without the fc , people are already zerging more in 1 concentrated area most of the time anyway. It still going to lag out the server no matter what. What i mean is at least forward camp will bring more fights spread out (not in one concentrated area) in a good way. It benefit the opposition that is defending the keep as well. Maybe if zenimax setup the forwardcamp range = respawn within range only , then it might work out decent. Everyone got thier opinion , i'm just stating mine .

I understand that everyone has his opinion. But your opinion here is that you prefer to not give any true signification or importance to your death because you can respawn right back 40feets behind the battle. That is your opinion.

The fact remains that allowing people to respawn 40feets away from the battle rally everyone in the same hot zone after a 20-30mins fight instead of letting them ride from the closest keep, thereby, reducing latency in the hot zone and forcing people to be more careful and tactician before blindly charging in. It also strongly encourages people to find a group and not play by themselves because riding alone is exactly what gankers are looking for, thus, making you rage even more about horse simulator.

But what i had seen is just more ad/ep/dc blobbing up even more because they mostly are scared to die (no forward camp) and this cause more zergballing . Correct me if i'm wrong .

A significant reason I just stay out of cyrodil altogether for pvp now. When the few times I do go, its no longer anything to do with pvp anymore. Its just unenjoyable than it was before (even with the exploits that were going on before). And small scale pvp is just not a reliable thing that happens realistically and no real incentive.

Its mostly always been zerg or get out. Just much more so now, I chose to get out. I usually play pvp quite considerably in every mmo I play. This is the first one I just moved away from altogether.

Most likely in every mmo you played before, they didn't have pvp released in the first 6months of the game. I remember how amazed I was when I first jumped in Cyrodiil. I could not believe they could come with such a beauty at release.

If large scale pvp is not your thing (zerging as you all call it), then you probably should have waited until they release new pvp content such as battlegrounds or arena.

Xiphyla · January 2015

miahq wrote: »

Xiphyla wrote: »

But what i had seen is just more ad/ep/dc blobbing up even more because they mostly are scared to die (no forward camp) and this cause more zergballing . Correct me if i'm wrong .

Seriously though, I don't understand how people who are that afraid of having to suffer the rather bland inconvenience of dying in this game ever started playing to begin with. Getting rid of camps may have made it worse, but putting forward camps back won't get rid of the zerg ball, it will just make AvA less about strategy and more about the size of your zerg. There will still be zergs either way.

If they want to get rid of zerg balls, adding small AoE splash damage to allies is about the only way.

The organised guilds are fine with no forward camp but it still come down to nurturing the pugs / casuals / solo players ( no players like to always die and run back from one side of the map to another side of the map). We can't just think of stuffs that only work for the organised group , had to think as a whole for this game to really maintain the population in long-term.

miahq · January 2015

Xiphyla wrote: »

The organised guilds are fine with no forward camp but it still come down to nurturing the pugs / casuals / solo players ( no players like to always die and run back from one side of the map to another side of the map). We can't just think of stuffs that only work for the organised group , had to think as a whole for this game to really maintain the population in long-term.

It still defeats the entire idea behind the pvp though. All you're saying is we can't just think of what works for group 1, but then essentially saying we should think about what works best for group 2. Maybe the focus on nurturing them should be to convince more to become more organized. AvAvA works as long as 60-70% of the people are organized at least in to small groups-- and more importantly are willing to work together. But that's what it really comes down to, a lot of people who have no desire to work with anyone. They just want to go around killing everything and being awesome. Then when they die they complain because it's an inconvenience. Why not just ask zos to removing dying entirely, since no one seems to like it?

Forward camps completely defeated the entire porting system between keeps. It made it pointless. And they were so cheap people would be placing 4-5 in a row... In absurdly crazy places. Not to mention a few people could sneak deep into enemy teritory, set up a forward camp and suddenly have dozens of people porting in.

Xiphyla · January 2015

miahq wrote: »

Xiphyla wrote: »

The organised guilds are fine with no forward camp but it still come down to nurturing the pugs / casuals / solo players ( no players like to always die and run back from one side of the map to another side of the map). We can't just think of stuffs that only work for the organised group , had to think as a whole for this game to really maintain the population in long-term.

It still defeats the entire idea behind the pvp though. All you're saying is we can't just think of what works for group 1, but then essentially saying we should think about what works best for group 2. Maybe the focus on nurturing them should be to convince more to become more organized. AvAvA works as long as 60-70% of the people are organized at least in to small groups-- and more importantly are willing to work together. But that's what it really comes down to, a lot of people who have no desire to work with anyone. They just want to go around killing everything and being awesome. Then when they die they complain because it's an inconvenience. Why not just ask zos to removing dying entirely, since no one seems to like it?

Forward camps completely defeated the entire porting system between keeps. It made it pointless. And they were so cheap people would be placing 4-5 in a row... In absurdly crazy places. Not to mention a few people could sneak deep into enemy teritory, set up a forward camp and suddenly have dozens of people porting in.

Exactly that's how you start to spread the fight out throughout cyrodil. A few guys sneak into deep enemy territory get some people spawn in and try to lure some "organised" groups out of the concentrated zergballing area (if only they want some good fights). Maybe 1 forward camp should be 100k to 300k ap range and make the forward camp spawn range only @ small radius within the fc.

miahq · January 2015

But being able to use it like that completely negates the entire purpose of the keep porting system and how it works. If you can easily buy as many items as you want that act as a portable teleport, what is the point of the entire built in system for teleports in all of cyrodiil? You might as well just get rid of it entirely, because you've just rendered the restrictions pointless. Just let people teleport wherever they want whenever they want, at which point you've basically just broken the game to satisfy a mob whose biggest complaint is dying is too inconvenient... In a game where the entire goal... is to kill people.

AvAvA is supposed to favor organized groups, that's the whole point. If you're breaking that up to satisfy a few people people who happen to tell the loudest, then it's not AvAvA anymore. It's just some place you go to kill other players and occasionally... I guess you take a keep or something? Though there's really no reason at that point, it's not central to the play.

RinaldoGandolphi · January 2015

The way forward camps were implemented before, no way.

They could bring them back with a radius restriction, and no blooporting across the map.

Forward camping has been a staple of warfare from the middle ages to present day. It makes sense for them to be in the game, but they should never be returned like they were. If they make it where you have to die in a radius of the camp, it would be fine for small-medium engagements,and strategy, blood porting across the map like folks did before? No way.

To be honest It don't matter to me if they bring them back or not, as long as they don't bring back bloodporting all over the map I'd probably be ok with it.

miahq · January 2015

woodsro wrote: »

The way forward camps were implemented before, no way.

They could bring them back with a radius restriction, and no blooporting across the map.

Forward camping has been a staple of warfare from the middle ages to present day. It makes sense for them to be in the game, but they should never be returned like they were. If they make it where you have to die in a radius of the camp, it would be fine for small-medium engagements,and strategy, blood porting across the map like folks did before? No way.

To be honest It don't matter to me if they bring them back or not, as long as they don't bring back bloodporting all over the map I'd probably be ok with it.

Forward camps may be a real thing, but how they got teleported out of that I've no idea. Just make it give battle field bonuses...

Sanct16 · January 2015

miahq wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Oh yeah. Lets all take a bow and sneak on the keep wall. I bet it will be fun when noone attacks anyone because he is too afraid to die.

But hey, I guess thats what you do. Sneak around with a bow, trying to onehit everyone and rage if they don't die.

Or you could just aim a catapult at that section of wall to clear out any archers, considering archers are generally what I'd expect to find on a keep wall. Or you could try blocking as you advance towards a downed wall. If that doesn't help relay the fears of some players about having to suffer the awful effects of actually dying, try hiding behind some of the bigger PCs until the fighting ends...

Seriously? You realize actual real life people have been jumping out of trenches or from behind barriers with the actual possibility of getting shot or killed in real life for centuries... you're too afraid to do it in a video game because it might mean having to inconvenience you for a few minutes? The entire point is supposed to be strategy wins. If you've absolutely no strategy then the numbers are going to shift in the defenders favor and you will lose. What you want is just mob vs mob. Whoever has the most people who can sit there infinitely respawning forever without getting bored and just quitting, wins.

You do realize that comparing a video game to a real war is probably the most stupid comparision made in 2015? CONGRATULATIONS!

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Apart from that, you do realize that camps could get destroyed so saying you had an infinite amount of resurrections is just wrong. Especially as pugs usually never replaced camps. Hunting down enemy FC was actually a tactical aspect. I remember great fights in the courtyard of keeps defending your own camp/hunting down enemy camps. Now sieges are just plain linear. Siege down outer. Siege down inner. Zerg inside. Hope you don't get wiped. Full wipe or keep taken. You don't need great tactics.
mob vs mob is exactly what the game is right now. Whoever has the bigger zerg probably wins. Forward camps allowed you to make up inferior numbers by the possibility to respawn. So even with a small group you could push out, even after the keep was sieged, repairing the outer and clear the enemies inside.

Sanct16 · January 2015

miahq wrote: »

But being able to use it like that completely negates the entire purpose of the keep porting system and how it works. If you can easily buy as many items as you want that act as a portable teleport, what is the point of the entire built in system for teleports in all of cyrodiil? You might as well just get rid of it entirely, because you've just rendered the restrictions pointless. Just let people teleport wherever they want whenever they want, at which point you've basically just broken the game to satisfy a mob whose biggest complaint is dying is too inconvenient... In a game where the entire goal... is to kill people.

AvAvA is supposed to favor organized groups, that's the whole point. If you're breaking that up to satisfy a few people people who happen to tell the loudest, then it's not AvAvA anymore. It's just some place you go to kill other players and occasionally... I guess you take a keep or something? Though there's really no reason at that point, it's not central to the play.

So how does a death penalty increase the fun of playing the game? Knowing that my opponent has to ride several unenjoyable minutes in order to get to a fight again after I killed him is not making me happy in any way. I am happy because I defeated someone and got AP for killing him. If it was up to me he could join the fun again from a close by spawn point.
If you feel pleasure forcing the opponent to have a bad time you are a horrible person imo.

Everyone can make use of camps. If you are organized, you will have always camps up. If you arent, you wont have camps. voila, organized group is favored.

Sanct16 · January 2015

woodsro wrote: »

The way forward camps were implemented before, no way.

They could bring them back with a radius restriction, and no blooporting across the map.

Forward camping has been a staple of warfare from the middle ages to present day. It makes sense for them to be in the game, but they should never be returned like they were. If they make it where you have to die in a radius of the camp, it would be fine for small-medium engagements,and strategy, blood porting across the map like folks did before? No way.

To be honest It don't matter to me if they bring them back or not, as long as they don't bring back bloodporting all over the map I'd probably be ok with it.

On the other hand, bloodporting helps to spread out the action more widely around the map. With a respawn radius, you wont be able to get away from the keep you are at if you dont want to ride to the other keep.

Whats so bad about bloodporting in detail? Everyone could do it so it just made the game faster which I appreciate.

miahq · January 2015

Well I guess it's official then, zos just needs to remove death entirely... It's destroying the game enjoyment. Dying is just unfair.

miahq · January 2015

Sanct16 wrote: »

You do realize that comparing a video game to a real war is probably the most stupid comparision made in 2015? CONGRATULATIONS!

Trying to be snarky isn't going to change the fact you're complaining about a game built around war being too much like a war. The word you should've taken from that comparison is IRONY. Something which apparently competely goes over people's heads. Next time someone comes with that argument I'll just save myself the time, call them lazy, and move on.

miahq · January 2015

Sanct16 wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

But being able to use it like that completely negates the entire purpose of the keep porting system and how it works. If you can easily buy as many items as you want that act as a portable teleport, what is the point of the entire built in system for teleports in all of cyrodiil? You might as well just get rid of it entirely, because you've just rendered the restrictions pointless. Just let people teleport wherever they want whenever they want, at which point you've basically just broken the game to satisfy a mob whose biggest complaint is dying is too inconvenient... In a game where the entire goal... is to kill people.

AvAvA is supposed to favor organized groups, that's the whole point. If you're breaking that up to satisfy a few people people who happen to tell the loudest, then it's not AvAvA anymore. It's just some place you go to kill other players and occasionally... I guess you take a keep or something? Though there's really no reason at that point, it's not central to the play.

So how does a death penalty increase the fun of playing the game? Knowing that my opponent has to ride several unenjoyable minutes in order to get to a fight again after I killed him is not making me happy in any way. I am happy because I defeated someone and got AP for killing him. If it was up to me he could join the fun again from a close by spawn point.
If you feel pleasure forcing the opponent to have a bad time you are a horrible person imo.

Everyone can make use of camps. If you are organized, you will have always camps up. If you arent, you wont have camps. voila, organized group is favored.

That's not the point of AvAvA, you're basically trying to turn it into continent wide arena. And it should make you happy because at some point you should remember that you're there to take or defend a keep... you know, the actual objective which is somehow completely not a big part of the fun you just outlined. Which.., that says a lot.

Sanct16 · January 2015

miahq wrote: »

Well I guess it's official then, zos just needs to remove death entirely... It's destroying the game enjoyment. Dying is just unfair.

I know that you are just trolling and probably try to cover your lack of arguments.

However being not able to kill your enemy would remove the whole point of PVP and decrease the enjoyment of winning over your opponent. Having the loser not being forced to run a long way but being able to return to battle sooner shouldn't decrease the joy of winning over him but increase the enjoyment for him.

miahq · January 2015

Sanct16 wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

Well I guess it's official then, zos just needs to remove death entirely... It's destroying the game enjoyment. Dying is just unfair.

I know that you are just trolling and probably try to cover your lack of arguments.

However being not able to kill your enemy would remove the whole point of PVP and decrease the enjoyment of winning over your opponent. Having the loser not being forced to run a long way but being able to return to battle sooner shouldn't decrease the joy of winning over him but increase the enjoyment for him.

... But you're not actually winning then. At all. The whole point is to defend or take keeps, you do that by killing people until you cleaned out their forces. If they just teleport back immediately then the numbers never change... you're just mindlessly killing everyone with no actual point other than to farm AP, which if that's really your goal then check out PvE. That's basically all it is.

And ignoring my arguments isn't really as clever a retort as you'd think. My point is still the same as it's been in nearly every post. The only thing that's clear is some people either don't get the point of AvAvA, or just don't care and want it to be arena so they ignore the entire point and just demand it be changed to what they want it to be. You have to run back because this isn't arena, this isn't just some mindless slugfest with no point.

Domander · January 2015

Orchish wrote: »

They have already confirmed that camps are coming back. Possibly with a shorter radius and respawn timer.

Yeah, well, they also confirmed they were "tracking xp". I guess things change after being confirmed.

frozywozy · January 2015

Sanct16 wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

Well I guess it's official then, zos just needs to remove death entirely... It's destroying the game enjoyment. Dying is just unfair.

I know that you are just trolling and probably try to cover your lack of arguments.

However being not able to kill your enemy would remove the whole point of PVP and decrease the enjoyment of winning over your opponent. Having the loser not being forced to run a long way but being able to return to battle sooner shouldn't decrease the joy of winning over him but increase the enjoyment for him.

The point is not to make our enemy suffer by giving them a long and boring ride back on their horse. You are seeing it the other way around. The point is to convince people to not mindlessly zerg into another group without precautions because they can safely spawn back in a camp nearby. People actually need to analyze and use tactics more before jumping into a fight.

If you want to just kill stuff and smash your keyboard, you haven't found the right game, go back to FPS deathmatch games such as CS or CoD.

Cathexis · January 2015

I don't know why not being able to access content is viewed as a good thing. More transport = more battles = more fun. Zerging should be mitigated by game mechanics not by simply killing content access. Who the *** cares if camps allow zerg waves? If keeps allow for a defensive posture to repell zerg waves its a non issue.

As for it not being a kill and smash game, without any fluent combat, the game is boring as ***.

Just two cents.

Cathexis · January 2015

Sanct16 wrote: »

Whats so bad about bloodporting in detail? Everyone could do it so it just made the game faster which I appreciate.

Hard core mmo'ers always want to protect their builds/items/groups/earned titles. If things don't get harder for other players to achieve, they qq cos they look the same over time instead of better. If things get more convenient for the avg player, that's even worse because it devalues their work.

God forbid games should be fun/enjoyable/playable and achievements should be reasonable to attain instead of slagging.

ALSO just realized for anyone who says camps lead to endless zerg raids that is NOT TRUE. Zergs are dependent on a continuous supply of placed camps which are FINITE due to player organization, baggage capacity, and ap (among other limits). Camp battles actually MEAN something because they give victory to the side with the most DEDICATED players, not the ones who can pull off the quickest speed run.

While I like that rezing actually matters now, camp based keep seiges lasted WAY longer and were WAY more fun.

miahq · January 2015

Cathexis wrote: »

I don't know why not being able to access content is viewed as a good thing. More transport = more battles = more fun. Zerging should be mitigated by game mechanics not by simply killing content access. Who the *** cares if camps allow zerg waves? If keeps allow for a defensive posture to repell zerg waves its a non issue.

As for it not being a kill and smash game, without any fluent combat, the game is boring as ***.

Just two cents.

Then why are you playing it? That's the whole point of AvAvA, so if you find the concept boring and want it to be different I don't understand that at all. Would you play monopoly and then complain it's not like the game of life? I hope not, I'd hope you'd just go play the game of life.

AvAvA is supposed to be about organized groups using strategy to take and hold territory. There is plenty of room for those who want to solo, but changing the entire mechanic simply to appease those who aren't interested in the alliance system and just want mindless pvp and point farming, that doesn't make any sense. You can't placate one group without destroying the AvA set up and pissing off the other group. You might as well toss the whole subplot behind cyrodiil and get rid of the keeps, because apparently a lot of people just don't care if they're there at all. How is the mindless button mashing of zerg ball vs zerg ball even fun? I could just write a bot script to do that for me, then go get a doughnut. It wouldn't even have to be a very complicated bot.

Cathexis · January 2015

Zerg balls are fun when you learn to survive zerg balls and destroy them despite being outnumbered. I'm not saying do away with tactics or keep systems, but tactical keep combat shouldn't be the only valuable type of play. There should be room for zerging and open warfare. Right now, the keep system itself is very unappealing. During my entire experience playing it has offered little overarching benefit, yet continues to be the focal point of PvP. Why not make alliance points hinge more on open world achievements by players and relegate keep combat to the emp chasing groups (since they are really the only ones who benefit from that combat system anyway).

You used to be able to play for the sake of PvP. With every patch this becomes less and less possible.

miahq · January 2015

Cathexis wrote: »

Zerg balls are fun when you learn to survive zerg balls and destroy them despite being outnumbered. I'm not saying do away with tactics or keep systems, but tactical keep combat shouldn't be the only valuable type of play. There should be room for zerging and open warfare. Right now, the keep system itself is very unappealing. During my entire experience playing it has offered little overarching benefit, yet continues to be the focal point of PvP. Why not make alliance points hinge more on open world achievements by players and relegate keep combat to the emp chasing groups (since they are really the only ones who benefit from that combat system anyway).

You used to be able to play for the sake of PvP. With every patch this becomes less and less possible.

I will agree that the keep system as it is now doesn't do a good job of making people interested in them. Here basically empty, meaningless buildings for most people. And since the big reward is to become emperor, and the quickest way to do that is AP farming and basically not caring who controls what as much, the pvp is a bit broken.

There is still room for open warfare already though. And with few exceptions, there really isn't a lot they can do to completely banish the zerg. The problem is open warfare actually requires organization. Or just a bit of hunting. My problem isn't that people want to go around solo and kill people out around cyrodiil, it's the constant complaining about how the map is too big. Running is boring. Dying is inconvenient.

Complaints that would probably make even a little more sense to me if it wasn't for soul gems. I realize that may be a problem for people who spend literally every minute in pvp, but maybe the solution to that is to say give alliance members gold salary based on number of keeps they control and how long they remain in pvp zone. Or AP, whatever. Point is, incentivize holding keeps and learn to use soul gems.