Please do NOT bring back forward camps!

frozywozy

pvpaddict42 wrote: »

If they really need to bring Forward Camps back, how about make it so that the next X many alliance members can be revived by an ally 30% faster, or makes it so it doesn't cost a soul gem. None of this self revive stuff or teleporting around the map.

Here is how forward camps should work if they bring them back :

• Design specific areas around every keep including their respective ressources (one instance per faction).
• Design a camp/wayshrine/portal you could buy from a siege vendor which can only be deployed using 10 players channeling it for a certain amount of time (one person cast it and the others use the synergy to build it).
• The duration of that camp should not exceed 20 minutes and should allow 20 players to spawn on it.
• Add a timer of 1 hour in each area to build a camp/wayshrine/portal.
• Add a tooltip including the name of the person who deployed the camp/wayshrine/portal.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Bring forward camps back the way they were.
/end.

Cody

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Bring forward camps back the way they were.
/end.

NO. HECK NO.

Sanct16

Cody wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Bring forward camps back the way they were.
/end.

NO. HECK NO.

YES. PLEASE. BRING THEM BACK AS THEY WERE.

Or make a camp and a no-camp campaign.

Cody

Sanct16 wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Bring forward camps back the way they were.
/end.

NO. HECK NO.

YES. PLEASE. BRING THEM BACK AS THEY WERE.

Or make a camp and a no-camp campaign.

NOOOOOO

plz... no more endless zerg bombing.... plz.....

Almakor

I think understand why they took away the camps. They were being set up INSIDE keeps so they can be reinforced even after they get sieged. I remember in one Pact dominated campaign where every keep had a camp in it. That would make it harder for the other alliances to catch up. There was also the fact that players keep spawn at camps from ANYWHERE on on map and so long as they they aren't attacked camps can stay deployed almost INDEFINITELY, and I have to admit that's a bit unsportsmanlike. If they are brought back, they could make some adjustments like you can only spawn at camps if your with RANGE of it and they have LIFESPANS of say 15-30 minutes.
However, if they're not bring back the camps they should at least fix the outpost transit shrines. It's been months and still no one can warp FROM the outposts just to them. There is NO reason for that to happen as running across Cyrodil was already monotonous when they worked. They should also make it so you can revive at outposts and capture them for your guild.

ThyIronFist

They will come back and they will be revamped, removing FCs entirely was bad, but they needed a total revamp.

Right now with no FCs it's the same old boring rides, eventually you'll die, respawn, repeat. Small scale is dead aside from ganking, the rest it's just zergzergzerg. For the most part I'm fighting at the exact same areas over and over, Arrius, Chalman, Alessia bridge... some BRK here and there. I've done enough of that in beta and the past 8-9 months so... meh.

Like I said FCs will come back, but in a revamped state, deal with it.

miahq

Almakor wrote: »

I think understand why they took away the camps. They were being set up INSIDE keeps so they can be reinforced even after they get sieged. I remember in one Pact dominated campaign where every keep had a camp in it. That would make it harder for the other alliances to catch up. There was also the fact that players keep spawn at camps from ANYWHERE on on map and so long as they they aren't attacked camps can stay deployed almost INDEFINITELY, and I have to admit that's a bit unsportsmanlike. If they are brought back, they could make some adjustments like you can only spawn at camps if your with RANGE of it and they have LIFESPANS of say 15-30 minutes.
However, if they're not bring back the camps they should at least fix the outpost transit shrines. It's been months and still no one can warp FROM the outposts just to them. There is NO reason for that to happen as running across Cyrodil was already monotonous when they worked. They should also make it so you can revive at outposts and capture them for your guild.

It's not so much that it's unsportsmanlike, it's that they set up the entire map to work by limiting fast travel, to prevent endless sieges and try to encourage actual strategy rather than just mindless jumping into the zerg to suicide attack... then for some bizarre reason they decided, f*ck it. Let's just put these camps in that makes all that other work we did pointless.

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

Camps are not needed. Wasting more time discussing this "issue" is really counter productive.

The removal of camps improved the game for many, and revealed some existing flaws in Cyrodill's design to others which makes them think the removal is the cause.

The proper way to solve these flaws is to actually address them head on rather than curcumventing them with reintriducing FCs.

For instance, camps or not, Cyrodill is just about keeps. With camps there is non stop action, without you noticed how skewed the system is.

Find ways to add meaning to the cities, add capturable stables buffing horse speed when captured, give roads faster travel speed. Add watchout towers with patroling mounted npcs with torches to detect gankers.

In short, rather than accepting a flaw and try to maximise keep battle uptime, try to give alternative and choices to players.

It will be harder, but the game will be improved by it. The Imperial City will be a very good first step in this direction.

Grim13

While I was originally against the removal of Fwd Camps, I've grown to appreciate Cyrodiil more without them.

Imo, 2 things would improve this change:

1) Remove all Fwd Camps from everyone's inventories. It's an unfair advantage.
2) Make Grand Soul Gems cheaper. 3600 AP is damned expensive.

Sanct16

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

Camps are not needed. Wasting more time discussing this "issue" is really counter productive.

The removal of camps improved the game for many, and revealed some existing flaws in Cyrodill's design to others which makes them think the removal is the cause.

The proper way to solve these flaws is to actually address them head on rather than curcumventing them with reintriducing FCs.

For instance, camps or not, Cyrodill is just about keeps. With camps there is non stop action, without you noticed how skewed the system is.

Find ways to add meaning to the cities, add capturable stables buffing horse speed when captured, give roads faster travel speed. Add watchout towers with patroling mounted npcs with torches to detect gankers.

In short, rather than accepting a flaw and try to maximise keep battle uptime, try to give alternative and choices to players.

It will be harder, but the game will be improved by it. The Imperial City will be a very good first step in this direction.

If course there are ways how having no camps would work. The current system does not work too well as it just turned it into zerging around outposts.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Cody wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Bring forward camps back the way they were.
/end.

NO. HECK NO.

YES. PLEASE. BRING THEM BACK AS THEY WERE.

Or make a camp and a no-camp campaign.

NOOOOOO

plz... no more endless zerg bombing.... plz.....

NOOOOOO

plz... no more mindless bridge fight drones.... plz.....

DisgracefulMind

I'm not pro-camps coming back as they were before, but I do look forward to them coming back in a re-vamped way, and this is why:

-Our population in DC is dying, and dying very fast. This is due, and this could just be my opinion, to players getting tired of being zerged over by 30+ man groups. DC doesn't have the "organized" guilds that, say, EP has. We just don't. Most players in DC run around solo or in small 3-4 man groups, because, well, I just find that to be the DC playstyle, I don't really have another reason for it. DC has had a population disadvantage for a long time, so we're used to being outnumbered, and this isn't my main complaint, but, it seems now, with no camps, that the difference we used to be able to make during a keep defense with our low numbers is taken away almost completely. Sure, me and my two partners could pour oil at a breach, and we'll probably kill 5 or 10 enemies, but when 30, 40, 50, etc. run through all of that and then insta-kill you, and, there, your keep is gone, it IS a bit discouraging. No camps, to us, has meant that we don't have that extra chance, with our already small numbers, to call people for a quick save, to respawn and try to get back in the inner and do something, anything, to stall until reinforcements are able to spawn at your camp. Sure, we can stall while we wait for reinforcements to ride down from another keep, but, seriously, no camps has hurt the low population, and made it lower. No one enjoys getting mowed over by 30+ people over and over and over again.
-Cyrodiil just feels like it's dying. I would prefer PvP without camps, I really would, but it just doesn't seem reasonable with how bad PvP is already hurting...I mean, Thornblade will be pop-locked for DC for like, maybe 3 hours max, and then it's down to 2 bars....then 1...then we lose everything, and anyone who logs on the next morning or afternoon is forced into a long grind to try and attempt to get back anything from our gates or gate keeps. If camps bring back people's interest in PvP even slightly, then, please, by all means, put them back into the game. Perhaps we should all start considering the health of the game, which isn't very good at all right now
-I used to be able to find random encounters and random fun little fights in so many different areas of the map. There were times I would stumble upon a group of 5+ enemies, and, usually, there was a forward camp nearby. There seemed to always be something interesting going on. And while, yes, there were massive numbers at keep fights and all that, at least, in the end, you always felt a bit rewarded in some way. Whether it was that you lost the keep, but you fought hard, and long, and valiantly, or you won the keep battle, and felt accomplished at having pushed all those waves of enemies away, or conquered them. Now it just feels like whoever has the biggest, "organized" zerg wins. I have seen such a significant increase in zerging, it's ridiculous. Instead of those fun days of encountering 5+ groups of people running around, if I encounter anyone ever it's like...30 or more, and it gets old, very, very old. Perhaps the alliance(s) with the "organized" groups can't understand this, since, well, you run with groups, and don't see things from an unpopulated faction's view, idk. There are DC who will disagree with me, yes, but there are a lot who won't.
-Most arguments I have seen as to why camps should be kept away forever contain the notion that no camps encourages people to be in groups. This, in my opinion, is a ridiculous argument. Yes, this is an MMO, yes, we all understand that, but there are A LOT OF PLAYERS, who enjoy playing the actual campaigns, who don't like running in groups. Is there something wrong with this? Absolutely not. This is just a difference in playstyle. There are many of you who enjoy grouping, enjoy leading raids, and that is fine, but you cannot, absolutely cannot, expect everyone to want to play the way YOU play. We are all entitled to our own playstyles, and forcing players into groups, where they never had to do such as before, is not okay. Perhaps group players won't understand this, or understand the appeal to play solo or duo, but, be assured, players who play solo and duo don't understand the appeal to large groups.
-Another argument I've seen is that the people you kill stay dead. Yeah, until they ride back with their zerg and you sit there waiting in the same place for it because you know it's going to happen. The map is often stale for DC players, so usually we wait at Bleakers (since Ash isn't often a hotspot, though sometimes it can be), and that's...like...the only action we get....ever. It's getting old. It's boring. Just waiting for the zerg wave to come over and over again to Bleakers....*yawn*. At least with camps we had action. Never-ending action.

Really, my summary here, is that Cyrodiil just feels blah lately without camps. The bigger zergs are more successful, the population is declining, people are getting sick of it. If camps are what makes Cyrodiil fun for more people again, then bring them back. I'd rather have an active Cyrodiil with camps than an inactive Cyrodiil without camps. Just my opinion.

Lava_Croft

Camps should only return once there is a mechanic in place that actually punishes you for dying.

ghengis_dhan

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Camps should only return once there is a mechanic in place that actually punishes you for dying.

Why not charge AP to re-spawn at any place other than a wayshrines in the safe areas?

I'd also like to see you lose some points in your ranking. Honestly, do you want an emperor who dies all the time because they are completely reckless?

ghengis_dhan

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

Camps are not needed. Wasting more time discussing this "issue" is really counter productive.

The removal of camps improved the game for many, and revealed some existing flaws in Cyrodill's design to others which makes them think the removal is the cause.

The proper way to solve these flaws is to actually address them head on rather than curcumventing them with reintriducing FCs.

For instance, camps or not, Cyrodill is just about keeps. With camps there is non stop action, without you noticed how skewed the system is.

Find ways to add meaning to the cities, add capturable stables buffing horse speed when captured, give roads faster travel speed. Add watchout towers with patroling mounted npcs with torches to detect gankers.

In short, rather than accepting a flaw and try to maximise keep battle uptime, try to give alternative and choices to players.

It will be harder, but the game will be improved by it. The Imperial City will be a very good first step in this direction.

Finally, a reasoned argument instead of the usual B.S. by players who don't want others to play the way they want. Although, I'm a fan of returning camps with changes, you make some good points.

I like your idea of boosting travel speed while on roads and adding patrolling guards with torches. It will give more of a home-field advantage to the faction controlling the nearby keep and make travel behind enemy lines more hazardous. (It always bothered my how easy it was for me to sneak deep into enemy-held territory and be completely safe most of the time.)

Cyrodiil is just too big to not have forward camps. So, instead of adding watch towers, how about adding more outposts. If we can cut the travel time in half by utilizing faster roads and more transit points we solve the "horse simulator" problem while adding more objectives. It might even spread the players out because they have to defend or take more places.

thelordoffelines

Did this thread respawn at a forward camp?

kevlarto_ESO

I don't really care any longer I have gotten used to not having them.

Sphinx2318

Columba wrote: »

I agree with the OP. The pvp has been much better without the FC crutches.

Lol Columba! Of course you would say that as a known ganker!!

Cervanteseric85ub17_ESO

If you spend all your time in cyrodil riding places I am afraid you might be doing it wrong. When I am in my guild group yes there is riding involved but it's never very long, with rapid and a max horse you can get anywhere pretty quickly. The only reason you would be playing a "horse simulator" is if your constantly dying, so instead of asking for forward camps to adjust for your reckless play style maybe reflect on your play style or maybe you just need to join a group with TS, that will go a long way

ghengis_dhan

Cervanteseric85ub17_ESO wrote: »

If you spend all your time in cyrodil riding places I am afraid you might be doing it wrong. When I am in my guild group yes there is riding involved but it's never very long, with rapid and a max horse you can get anywhere pretty quickly. The only reason you would be playing a "horse simulator" is if your constantly dying, so instead of asking for forward camps to adjust for your reckless play style maybe reflect on your play style or maybe you just need to join a group with TS, that will go a long way

It's not just reckless play style. As a healer, I find myself targeted an awful lot, seemingly more so than anyone else who's not a healer. Block casting only helps me so far. (My son specifically targets enemy healers.)

Further, in heavy fights, my client doesn't render all the enemy players in real time. I ran into areas I thought were safe, only to see from my death recap that I had run into a group of 4+ players.

frozywozy

ghengis_dhan wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

Camps are not needed. Wasting more time discussing this "issue" is really counter productive.

The removal of camps improved the game for many, and revealed some existing flaws in Cyrodill's design to others which makes them think the removal is the cause.

The proper way to solve these flaws is to actually address them head on rather than curcumventing them with reintriducing FCs.

For instance, camps or not, Cyrodill is just about keeps. With camps there is non stop action, without you noticed how skewed the system is.

Find ways to add meaning to the cities, add capturable stables buffing horse speed when captured, give roads faster travel speed. Add watchout towers with patroling mounted npcs with torches to detect gankers.

In short, rather than accepting a flaw and try to maximise keep battle uptime, try to give alternative and choices to players.

It will be harder, but the game will be improved by it. The Imperial City will be a very good first step in this direction.

Finally, a reasoned argument instead of the usual B.S. by players who don't want others to play the way they want. Although, I'm a fan of returning camps with changes, you make some good points.

I like your idea of boosting travel speed while on roads and adding patrolling guards with torches. It will give more of a home-field advantage to the faction controlling the nearby keep and make travel behind enemy lines more hazardous. (It always bothered my how easy it was for me to sneak deep into enemy-held territory and be completely safe most of the time.)

Cyrodiil is just too big to not have forward camps. So, instead of adding watch towers, how about adding more outposts. If we can cut the travel time in half by utilizing faster roads and more transit points we solve the "horse simulator" problem while adding more objectives. It might even spread the players out because they have to defend or take more places.

I don't know about you but when I have to ride from Sejanus all the way to Drake because it is flagged and I successfully defend the keep outnumbered 1 to 3 because obviously almost no one will do it, I feel very satisfied about it and I don't mind the ride at all. This is actually what I enjoy the most.

We don't need more outposts, it is already way too easy for a guild group to ride back and defend most keeps.

WraithAzraiel

Is this a thing? Are they actually bringing them back?

Ezareth

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Is this a thing? Are they actually bringing them back?

If so I better find a reason to use my stockpile before they're deprecated.

ghengis_dhan

frozywozy wrote: »

I don't know about you but when I have to ride from Sejanus all the way to Drake because it is flagged and I successfully defend the keep outnumbered 1 to 3 because obviously almost no one will do it, I feel very satisfied about it and I don't mind the ride at all. This is actually what I enjoy the most.

We don't need more outposts, it is already way too easy for a guild group to ride back and defend most keeps.

What about all the other players?

We need to make Cyrodiil fun for more players, so ZOS will have more incentive to put more resources into improving it. I understand some players hated camps. Well, there are others who loved them. And, if we can't have camps, what is the problem with putting in more outposts to find a middle ground?

ZOS, I wish you would allow forward camps to only be purchased and placed in a single campaign. And while your at it, pick another campaign to remove the large group option so players who hate "zergs" can find a home. If either of these campaigns do not generate enough activity, then please drop them. These forums in no way represent the majority of players, so allow them to vote with their activity.

Rakshat

Ironically, people have become even more lazy without the camps. Players keep res'ing each other mid-fight even if the fight takes place right next to their own keep. I usually fight in a group of 6-8 players and at least once a day we end up in a situation where we can't kill a group of 15-20 players not because we lack the skill to do so, but because we don't have enough stamina/magicka to keep bashing/streaking through all the people just resurrecting each other. It's quite frustrating to lose a fighting like this because your enemies keep popping back to life right on the spot.

ZOS_BrianWheeler

Forward Camps are not coming back anytime soon, and while we have made some changes to them internally, they are still not being pushed for testing on PTS for quite some time.

As a recap, we have discussed/changed several things with them internally so far:

• We are reducing the radius of the camp to roughly the size of a keep
• Only allow player respawning within the radius of the camp
• A global cooldown/lockout of using any camp after rezzing at one for a period of X minutes

There have been other design chats about FC's and your feedback goes into those conversations for sure. Also to quell the rumor again; Camps are not, and have never been, considered for the crown store.

uso245

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Forward Camps are not coming back anytime soon, and while we have made some changes to them internally, they are still not being pushed for testing on PTS for quite some time.

As a recap, we have discussed/changed several things with them internally so far:

• We are reducing the radius of the camp to roughly the size of a keep
• Only allow player respawning within the radius of the camp
• A global cooldown/lockout of using any camp after rezzing at one for a period of X minutes

There have been other design chats about FC's and your feedback goes into those conversations for sure. Also to quell the rumor again; Camps are not, and have never been, considered for the crown store.

I noticed one person mentioned it earlier about having FC set up where it actually takes time to set one up say it takes 30 seconds to fully deploy a camp not the quick 10 seconds kneel to the ground and it is done. I know some people will complain saying it takes too long but it will certainly make someone think twice about setting one up near an enemy keep and they will have to find a secure spot to place one otherwise risk being taken down within the allotted time frame.

c0rp

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Forward Camps are not coming back anytime soon, and while we have made some changes to them internally, they are still not being pushed for testing on PTS for quite some time.

As a recap, we have discussed/changed several things with them internally so far:

• We are reducing the radius of the camp to roughly the size of a keep
• Only allow player respawning within the radius of the camp
• A global cooldown/lockout of using any camp after rezzing at one for a period of X minutes

There have been other design chats about FC's and your feedback goes into those conversations for sure. Also to quell the rumor again; Camps are not, and have never been, considered for the crown store.

Thanks for the update. But why do these things take MONTHS to get done? I think the PVP team needs to be moved to a "pay based on results" salary plan. I mean...what has pvp gotten since launch? The list is pretty short.

AbraXuSeXile

Games boring with no camps, same fights all the time.