Have you people learned nothing yet? Unless it is actually in the game, stated by ZOS on this forum, or in writing in the patch notes, you are doing nothing but speculating.
phreatophile wrote: »Morna, I watched most of episode 7. The most I heard was the possibility of assaulting or pick-pocketing an NPC on a full moon and getting a wolfish surprise.
That's a pretty nice touch actually. I hope there are other surprises like closet mini-boss necromancers, powerful vampires, capable retired soldiers, and so on as well as some easy marks.
MornaBaine wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »So it's been confirmed that vampires in Stage 4 will be considered "criminals" once the Justice System is implemented.
Confirmed where? And when? We're still working out the details of how the Justice System will impact werewolf and vampire players.
Okay here's the first one. Now I have to go watch the most recent Livestream again.
OK here is the livestream link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGUOLSng-F8
Now Paul Sage's segment begins around 1:01:50. At aprox 1:00:16 Sage begins to talk about NPCs noticing transformed werewolves and Stage 4 vampires. What he says is, "Guards will not like that behavior."
phreatophile wrote: »Paul was pretty specific (at 1:03 ) mentioning "transformed werewolves and 'phase 4' vampires" not being liked by guards. What was cryptic is the consequences.
Have you people learned nothing yet? Unless it is actually in the game, stated by ZOS on this forum, or in writing in the patch notes, you are doing nothing but speculating.ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »We're still working out the details of how the Justice System will impact werewolf and vampire players.
^ This is all you needed to know.
/thread
WraithAzraiel wrote: »phreatophile wrote: »Paul was pretty specific (at 1:03 ) mentioning "transformed werewolves and 'phase 4' vampires" not being liked by guards. What was cryptic is the consequences.
Have you people learned nothing yet? Unless it is actually in the game, stated by ZOS on this forum, or in writing in the patch notes, you are doing nothing but speculating.ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »We're still working out the details of how the Justice System will impact werewolf and vampire players.
^ This is all you needed to know.
/thread
So words literally coming out from the mouth of the Almighty Sage is considered speculation?
Hmmmmmmmm.....does not compute.
WraithAzraiel wrote: »So words literally coming out from the mouth of the Almighty Sage is considered speculation?
Hmmmmmmmm.....does not compute.
DagothMacellarius wrote: »I hate mortals and hope stage 4 is KOS. I want to be feared and hated by the mortal races and become my own faction half the time or more I play. I will be chilling in Castle Volkihar when eastern skyrim zone is finally released in the future. If Lord Harkon and the castle is not in the game for some odd reason I will find the location where it should be lore wise and sit alone in the cold waiting for the ripe blood filled naive explorer to come my way in the cold night.
ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »So it's been confirmed that vampires in Stage 4 will be considered "criminals" once the Justice System is implemented.
Confirmed where? And when? We're still working out the details of how the Justice System will impact werewolf and vampire players.
WraithAzraiel wrote: »phreatophile wrote: »Paul was pretty specific (at 1:03 ) mentioning "transformed werewolves and 'phase 4' vampires" not being liked by guards. What was cryptic is the consequences.
Have you people learned nothing yet? Unless it is actually in the game, stated by ZOS on this forum, or in writing in the patch notes, you are doing nothing but speculating.ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »We're still working out the details of how the Justice System will impact werewolf and vampire players.
^ This is all you needed to know.
/thread
So words literally coming out from the mouth of the Almighty Sage is considered speculation?
Hmmmmmmmm.....does not compute.
Yes, it's pure speculation. Doesn't mean it's going to happen. Or do you believe everything someone tells you, or everything you hear on TV, etc? Just because he is "official" doesn't mean anything. The President Of The United States gets on TV all the time and gives us a load of malarkey that everyone knows he won't uphold. Until what he says is actually written into law (i.e. actually put into the game), it's nothing but words.
timidobserver wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »So it's been confirmed that vampires in Stage 4 will be considered "criminals" once the Justice System is implemented.
Confirmed where? And when? We're still working out the details of how the Justice System will impact werewolf and vampire players.
My suggestion would be to do something very problematically easy like making vampires gain heat faster. 50% faster in Stage 3 and 75% faster in Stage 4.
timidobserver wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »So it's been confirmed that vampires in Stage 4 will be considered "criminals" once the Justice System is implemented.
Confirmed where? And when? We're still working out the details of how the Justice System will impact werewolf and vampire players.
My suggestion would be to do something very problematically easy like making vampires gain heat faster. 50% faster in Stage 3 and 75% faster in Stage 4.
Honestly this very thing is the best solution in my mind. It still doesn't force us who likes our roleplaying characters to be nasty vampires with masks covering their faces, to go on rampages throughout towns to clear them out before RP to avoid getting attacked under RP. But does make it more diffcult for them to steal stuff and get away with it.
Personally I will dislike the whole notion of KOS on stage four vampires, unless if they implement a system whereby the vampire can hide their stage by wearing a full mask / helmet. But since that is not very likely, I think your very ideá of having an increased heat / bounty rate would be the best solution.
MornaBaine wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »So it's been confirmed that vampires in Stage 4 will be considered "criminals" once the Justice System is implemented.
Confirmed where? And when? We're still working out the details of how the Justice System will impact werewolf and vampire players.
My suggestion would be to do something very problematically easy like making vampires gain heat faster. 50% faster in Stage 3 and 75% faster in Stage 4.
Honestly this very thing is the best solution in my mind. It still doesn't force us who likes our roleplaying characters to be nasty vampires with masks covering their faces, to go on rampages throughout towns to clear them out before RP to avoid getting attacked under RP. But does make it more diffcult for them to steal stuff and get away with it.
Personally I will dislike the whole notion of KOS on stage four vampires, unless if they implement a system whereby the vampire can hide their stage by wearing a full mask / helmet. But since that is not very likely, I think your very ideá of having an increased heat / bounty rate would be the best solution.
Not to be a contrarian...but why on earth would a Stage 4 vampire (or any vampire who is OBVIOUSLY a vampire of some sort, mechanics aside) NOT be KOS in any town they enter? I could certainly see a disguise being implemented but it would need to be susceptible to "breakage" just as most disguises currently are. In other words, it'd work just fine at first glance but would fail to stand up under scrutiny. Maybe with a random chance that certain guards are experienced with vampires and are therefore better at spotting them.
There aren't really a whole lot of ways I can imagine Guards, (a specific type of NPC meant to do one thing), openly "not liking" Vampires, especially when mentioned in the context of a "Justice" system. Is there a signed/witnessed legal document stating exactly what will happen? No. Is there enough information to hazard a guess? Definitely.No, but he never said that vampires at stage 4 will be considered criminals and be killed on sight. He only said, that the guards don't like vampires at stage 4, that's all.
MornaBaine wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »So it's been confirmed that vampires in Stage 4 will be considered "criminals" once the Justice System is implemented.
Confirmed where? And when? We're still working out the details of how the Justice System will impact werewolf and vampire players.
My suggestion would be to do something very problematically easy like making vampires gain heat faster. 50% faster in Stage 3 and 75% faster in Stage 4.
Honestly this very thing is the best solution in my mind. It still doesn't force us who likes our roleplaying characters to be nasty vampires with masks covering their faces, to go on rampages throughout towns to clear them out before RP to avoid getting attacked under RP. But does make it more diffcult for them to steal stuff and get away with it.
Personally I will dislike the whole notion of KOS on stage four vampires, unless if they implement a system whereby the vampire can hide their stage by wearing a full mask / helmet. But since that is not very likely, I think your very ideá of having an increased heat / bounty rate would be the best solution.
Not to be a contrarian...but why on earth would a Stage 4 vampire (or any vampire who is OBVIOUSLY a vampire of some sort, mechanics aside) NOT be KOS in any town they enter? I could certainly see a disguise being implemented but it would need to be susceptible to "breakage" just as most disguises currently are. In other words, it'd work just fine at first glance but would fail to stand up under scrutiny. Maybe with a random chance that certain guards are experienced with vampires and are therefore better at spotting them.
MornaBaine wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »So it's been confirmed that vampires in Stage 4 will be considered "criminals" once the Justice System is implemented.
Confirmed where? And when? We're still working out the details of how the Justice System will impact werewolf and vampire players.
My suggestion would be to do something very problematically easy like making vampires gain heat faster. 50% faster in Stage 3 and 75% faster in Stage 4.
Honestly this very thing is the best solution in my mind. It still doesn't force us who likes our roleplaying characters to be nasty vampires with masks covering their faces, to go on rampages throughout towns to clear them out before RP to avoid getting attacked under RP. But does make it more diffcult for them to steal stuff and get away with it.
Personally I will dislike the whole notion of KOS on stage four vampires, unless if they implement a system whereby the vampire can hide their stage by wearing a full mask / helmet. But since that is not very likely, I think your very ideá of having an increased heat / bounty rate would be the best solution.
Not to be a contrarian...but why on earth would a Stage 4 vampire (or any vampire who is OBVIOUSLY a vampire of some sort, mechanics aside) NOT be KOS in any town they enter? I could certainly see a disguise being implemented but it would need to be susceptible to "breakage" just as most disguises currently are. In other words, it'd work just fine at first glance but would fail to stand up under scrutiny. Maybe with a random chance that certain guards are experienced with vampires and are therefore better at spotting them.
Because ALL ORDINARY people in Tamriel has absolutely no idea about what a vampire looks like. A vampire in ESO looks extremely sick, and that is rather clear. Hell, if sickness was an actual thing in the game and people could become deadly sick, and only a few ever became a vampire while keeping it a top secret, none of us players would know whos characters are vampires, or just extremely sick people who is in dire need of a priest.
That's the whole point everyone seems to forget, espically lore wise, none of those people knows it's a god damn vampire, for all they know it could simply be sick person or a street entertainer trying to scare the non-existing children.
Few in Tamriel are true vampire hunters, and even said vampire hunters are OFTEN fooled by vampires who one way or the other disguises themselves as mortals. If these pro-people who slaughter (Or claim so) vampires for a living, sure as hell can a deadly-sick-looking vampire walk around on the streets with a hood casting a shadow over their disgusting face.
In real life we don't just kill people for being disgusting, we kill them for comitting terrible crimes like slaughters, school shootings and sexoffenders. (At least if you live in a country with death-sentences, which I sadly do not) Even Skyrim figured this out when they updated Vampirism to no longer be KOS on sight in stage 4, but only if they transformed into a monster which only blind people would mistake for a real person.
The whole vampire being hidden in public is a rather big fact throughout Elder Scrolls lore, and even while you, nor others believe said characters to be disgusting, people in Tamriel can see no differences between them, or deadly sick people who needs a healer.
Yes vampires are hatred across most of Tamriel, but I sure as hell would prefer the guards to catch a mass murderer, than kill some innocent vampire who lives on the blood from a camels ass, if I were a citizen in any town in Tamriel.
King Emeric after all were wise enough to see that not all vampires are monsters, that could be the very reason for him to outright state that no vampire who is innocent should be attacked immediately by the guards, but only those who feed on the living shall.
I wouldn't be surprised if the compromise is paired with the ability to opt into the justice system itself. They said in one of the recent ESO live episodes that provisioners wouldn't be hurt by having every lootable container marked as stealing in town as they would be able to opt out of the system and it will function the same as it always has.
From a balance perspective, I consider it unlikely stage 4 vamps will be considered kill on sight as there is no where else for people to do their crafting/banking/vendors etc and I doubt they'll be able to make all new content. Now, if the fence facility you enter to sell your stolen goods serves multiple functions (has a bank, crafting stations, etc) then it could be a possibility but one I would still consider unlikely to occur.
From my personal perspective with a vamp character, I would have no issue being forced to hide in the wilderness so long as there was somewhere I could handle my business outside of town. I only have so much time in a day and have to visit towns to clear inventory while questing several times in a session and forcing a waiting time or such mechanics would create needless complications and would negatively impact my game time (which we all are paying for)
MornaBaine wrote: »I wouldn't be surprised if the compromise is paired with the ability to opt into the justice system itself. They said in one of the recent ESO live episodes that provisioners wouldn't be hurt by having every lootable container marked as stealing in town as they would be able to opt out of the system and it will function the same as it always has.
From a balance perspective, I consider it unlikely stage 4 vamps will be considered kill on sight as there is no where else for people to do their crafting/banking/vendors etc and I doubt they'll be able to make all new content. Now, if the fence facility you enter to sell your stolen goods serves multiple functions (has a bank, crafting stations, etc) then it could be a possibility but one I would still consider unlikely to occur.
From my personal perspective with a vamp character, I would have no issue being forced to hide in the wilderness so long as there was somewhere I could handle my business outside of town. I only have so much time in a day and have to visit towns to clear inventory while questing several times in a session and forcing a waiting time or such mechanics would create needless complications and would negatively impact my game time (which we all are paying for)
I, for one, am super curious as to what they EXACTLY mean when they say the Justice System will be "opt out" (as they did say the default is Justice System is Enabled). I am all for the PVP aspect of it being opt out because I really don't want to see that forced on people who really just don't want to PvP. But what about the PvE aspect? It just seems a little silly to me that those who choose NOT to participate will be able to loot away from containers that would otherwise count as theft with absolutely no ill effects while the guy next to them reaches for the same radish and the next thing he knows he's being chased by guards. I kind of don't like that idea. And I'm a Provisioner! LOL
Their biggest issue is going to be the idea of making a PVE player PVP targetable, once the full system goes live. In theory, you could be crafting/banking/what have you... then have to go afk for some reason and come back to being PVP flagged because your stage changed.
I like Morna's ideas about swapping the stage 1 and stage 3 timers... that would be a tremendous boon.
We have to wait to see what they decide, though. Maybe on this they will take the whole range of possible outcomes into account before making a decision.
One can always hope, right?
MornaBaine wrote: »Their biggest issue is going to be the idea of making a PVE player PVP targetable, once the full system goes live. In theory, you could be crafting/banking/what have you... then have to go afk for some reason and come back to being PVP flagged because your stage changed.
I like Morna's ideas about swapping the stage 1 and stage 3 timers... that would be a tremendous boon.
We have to wait to see what they decide, though. Maybe on this they will take the whole range of possible outcomes into account before making a decision.
One can always hope, right?
Well supposedly the Justice System is going to be "Opt Out" so we may really be worried for nothing. Say you want to go craft for a couple hours, take a phone call and leave your computer... all you have to do is toggle "Justice System OFF" and you can progress all the way to Stage 4 and, just as it is now, no one will notice and it'll have NO effect on either PvP OR PvE. But personally, if that's really the way they are going to do it, I'm going to be really disappointed. I think it's important to have the PvP portion of the Justice system be voluntary... but I really feel it ought to just be a regular part of the game for PvE once it's in.
MornaBaine wrote: »Their biggest issue is going to be the idea of making a PVE player PVP targetable, once the full system goes live. In theory, you could be crafting/banking/what have you... then have to go afk for some reason and come back to being PVP flagged because your stage changed.
I like Morna's ideas about swapping the stage 1 and stage 3 timers... that would be a tremendous boon.
We have to wait to see what they decide, though. Maybe on this they will take the whole range of possible outcomes into account before making a decision.
One can always hope, right?
Well supposedly the Justice System is going to be "Opt Out" so we may really be worried for nothing. Say you want to go craft for a couple hours, take a phone call and leave your computer... all you have to do is toggle "Justice System OFF" and you can progress all the way to Stage 4 and, just as it is now, no one will notice and it'll have NO effect on either PvP OR PvE. But personally, if that's really the way they are going to do it, I'm going to be really disappointed. I think it's important to have the PvP portion of the Justice system be voluntary... but I really feel it ought to just be a regular part of the game for PvE once it's in.
I will agree 100% with that. I don't mind the PVE side of it being in place at all times. I just don't want to come back to my toon flagged for every tool who just sits and waits to wtfpwn some unsuspecting noob just because I had to go check the grill.
MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »Their biggest issue is going to be the idea of making a PVE player PVP targetable, once the full system goes live. In theory, you could be crafting/banking/what have you... then have to go afk for some reason and come back to being PVP flagged because your stage changed.
I like Morna's ideas about swapping the stage 1 and stage 3 timers... that would be a tremendous boon.
We have to wait to see what they decide, though. Maybe on this they will take the whole range of possible outcomes into account before making a decision.
One can always hope, right?
Well supposedly the Justice System is going to be "Opt Out" so we may really be worried for nothing. Say you want to go craft for a couple hours, take a phone call and leave your computer... all you have to do is toggle "Justice System OFF" and you can progress all the way to Stage 4 and, just as it is now, no one will notice and it'll have NO effect on either PvP OR PvE. But personally, if that's really the way they are going to do it, I'm going to be really disappointed. I think it's important to have the PvP portion of the Justice system be voluntary... but I really feel it ought to just be a regular part of the game for PvE once it's in.
I will agree 100% with that. I don't mind the PVE side of it being in place at all times. I just don't want to come back to my toon flagged for every tool who just sits and waits to wtfpwn some unsuspecting noob just because I had to go check the grill.
Right? Yeah that would be super annoying. But really, there's no reason for the Justice System NOT to be enabled at all times on the PvE level. And if it is (as I hope) then they really WILL need to give players more control over what Stage their vampire is in. And after having considered what might literally be EVERY possible way to do that, I still think flipping the times of the Stages between 1 and 3 to be the best possible compromise that will make the largest number of people, (even both PvPers and RPers) happy.