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Vampires & the Justice System
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phreatophile✭✭✭✭✭
✭Morna, I watched most of episode 7. The most I heard was the possibility of assaulting or pick-pocketing an NPC on a full moon and getting a wolfish surprise.
That's a pretty nice touch actually. I hope there are other surprises like closet mini-boss necromancers, powerful vampires, capable retired soldiers, and so on as well as some easy marks.1 -
Have you people learned nothing yet? Unless it is actually in the game, stated by ZOS on this forum, or in writing in the patch notes, you are doing nothing but speculating.
And remember, when the patch comes out if it is different than the patch notes, then the patch notes are obviously wrong and are changed to reflect the actual functionality of the current game (removal of the Devour timer).
But it is nice for one of these threads to actually get a ZOS response.
1 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭phreatophile wrote: »Morna, I watched most of episode 7. The most I heard was the possibility of assaulting or pick-pocketing an NPC on a full moon and getting a wolfish surprise.
That's a pretty nice touch actually. I hope there are other surprises like closet mini-boss necromancers, powerful vampires, capable retired soldiers, and so on as well as some easy marks.
Yeah I remember them alluding to the possibility of your victim being a werewolf on the night of the full moons. I thought that was pretty awesome.
Of course it's still gonna drive me crazy if I can't figure out where I thought I heard that second mention of Stage 4 vampires being affected by the Justice System.
But even if I don't, hey we got a Dev response confirming that it is, in fact, in the works! Now if only I had cleverly come up with that ruse and done it on purpose... >.> LOL PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!0 -
WraithAzraiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭MornaBaine wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »So it's been confirmed that vampires in Stage 4 will be considered "criminals" once the Justice System is implemented.
Confirmed where? And when? We're still working out the details of how the Justice System will impact werewolf and vampire players.
Okay here's the first one. Now I have to go watch the most recent Livestream again.
OK here is the livestream link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGUOLSng-F8
Now Paul Sage's segment begins around 1:01:50. At aprox 1:00:16 Sage begins to talk about NPCs noticing transformed werewolves and Stage 4 vampires. What he says is, "Guards will not like that behavior."
Oh hey, is that the ESO live on which my question was asked and then cleverly diverted and left unanswered by the guest speaker shamelessly plugging the "upcoming updates to Werewolf OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooOOOOh"?
I'm not bitter or anything.....
This practice of circular talking and wordsmithing has got to go.
Just sayin'.Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade
Captain of the Black Howling
"There's no such thing as overkill..."
"No problem on the face of the Earth exists what can't be fixed with the proper application of enough duct tape and 550 cord."
P2PBetaTesters
#Tamriel_BETA_Team
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DominionMasterRace
#GOAHEADTHEYGOTCANDY
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WraithAzraiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭phreatophile wrote: »Paul was pretty specific (at 1:03 ) mentioning "transformed werewolves and 'phase 4' vampires" not being liked by guards. What was cryptic is the consequences.
Have you people learned nothing yet? Unless it is actually in the game, stated by ZOS on this forum, or in writing in the patch notes, you are doing nothing but speculating.ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »We're still working out the details of how the Justice System will impact werewolf and vampire players.
^ This is all you needed to know.
/thread
So words literally coming out from the mouth of the Almighty Sage is considered speculation?
Hmmmmmmmm.....does not compute.Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade
Captain of the Black Howling
"There's no such thing as overkill..."
"No problem on the face of the Earth exists what can't be fixed with the proper application of enough duct tape and 550 cord."
P2PBetaTesters
#Tamriel_BETA_Team
#BETA_TESTER4LYF
DominionMasterRace
#GOAHEADTHEYGOTCANDY
#SEEMSLEGIT2 -
dharbert✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WraithAzraiel wrote: »phreatophile wrote: »Paul was pretty specific (at 1:03 ) mentioning "transformed werewolves and 'phase 4' vampires" not being liked by guards. What was cryptic is the consequences.
Have you people learned nothing yet? Unless it is actually in the game, stated by ZOS on this forum, or in writing in the patch notes, you are doing nothing but speculating.ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »We're still working out the details of how the Justice System will impact werewolf and vampire players.
^ This is all you needed to know.
/thread
So words literally coming out from the mouth of the Almighty Sage is considered speculation?
Hmmmmmmmm.....does not compute.
Yes, it's pure speculation. Doesn't mean it's going to happen. Or do you believe everything someone tells you, or everything you hear on TV, etc? Just because he is "official" doesn't mean anything. The President Of The United States gets on TV all the time and gives us a load of malarkey that everyone knows he won't uphold. Until what he says is actually written into law (i.e. actually put into the game), it's nothing but words.Edited by dharbert on December 16, 2014 10:46AM0 -
Enaijo✭✭✭WraithAzraiel wrote: »So words literally coming out from the mouth of the Almighty Sage is considered speculation?
Hmmmmmmmm.....does not compute.
No, but he never said that vampires at stage 4 will be considered criminals and be killed on sight. He only said, that the guards don't like vampires at stage 4, that's all.
And that's exactly the same Jessica wrote right in this thread ... the guards will react, but it's not decided in which way.1 -
BloodStorm✭✭✭I hate mortals and hope stage 4 is KOS. I want to be feared and hated by the mortal races and become my own faction half the time or more I play. I think having stages last a day might be a good thing also because if you like stage 4 a lot you are sorta punished for feeding to go to towns, which halts that roleplay feel again. If the stage 4 does become KOS I will be chilling in Castle Volkihar when eastern skyrim zone is finally released in the future. If Lord Harkon and the castle is not in the game for some odd reason I will find the location where it should be lore wise and sit alone in the cold waiting for the ripe blood filled naive explorer to come my way in the cold night.Edited by BloodStorm on December 16, 2014 1:02PM2
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MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DagothMacellarius wrote: »I hate mortals and hope stage 4 is KOS. I want to be feared and hated by the mortal races and become my own faction half the time or more I play. I will be chilling in Castle Volkihar when eastern skyrim zone is finally released in the future. If Lord Harkon and the castle is not in the game for some odd reason I will find the location where it should be lore wise and sit alone in the cold waiting for the ripe blood filled naive explorer to come my way in the cold night.
I love it! Hopefully one day we'll be able to build our own spooky vampire strongholds complete with dank underground crypts! LOL
It does seem that vampire players are pretty strongly divided into 2 camps, those who are only vampires because of min/maxxing and PvP benefits and those of us who love them for the lore and story and find they add to our personal immersion. Hopefully ZOS can finally find a reasonable compromise between the two when it comes to our beloved vamps.Edited by MornaBaine on December 16, 2014 1:03PMPAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!3 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »So it's been confirmed that vampires in Stage 4 will be considered "criminals" once the Justice System is implemented.
Confirmed where? And when? We're still working out the details of how the Justice System will impact werewolf and vampire players.
My suggestion would be to do something very problematically easy like making vampires gain heat faster. 50% faster in Stage 3 and 75% faster in Stage 4.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)2 -
WraithAzraiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭WraithAzraiel wrote: »phreatophile wrote: »Paul was pretty specific (at 1:03 ) mentioning "transformed werewolves and 'phase 4' vampires" not being liked by guards. What was cryptic is the consequences.
Have you people learned nothing yet? Unless it is actually in the game, stated by ZOS on this forum, or in writing in the patch notes, you are doing nothing but speculating.ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »We're still working out the details of how the Justice System will impact werewolf and vampire players.
^ This is all you needed to know.
/thread
So words literally coming out from the mouth of the Almighty Sage is considered speculation?
Hmmmmmmmm.....does not compute.
Yes, it's pure speculation. Doesn't mean it's going to happen. Or do you believe everything someone tells you, or everything you hear on TV, etc? Just because he is "official" doesn't mean anything. The President Of The United States gets on TV all the time and gives us a load of malarkey that everyone knows he won't uphold. Until what he says is actually written into law (i.e. actually put into the game), it's nothing but words.
If the guy in charge of something tells me something, I'm more inclined to believe him over his subordinates or people who aren't in the hierarchy at all.
So specifics haven't been revealed - la dee f'rickin' da! fact of the matter is, there will be a reaction. That's not speculation - it's the only direction that makes any sense.Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade
Captain of the Black Howling
"There's no such thing as overkill..."
"No problem on the face of the Earth exists what can't be fixed with the proper application of enough duct tape and 550 cord."
P2PBetaTesters
#Tamriel_BETA_Team
#BETA_TESTER4LYF
DominionMasterRace
#GOAHEADTHEYGOTCANDY
#SEEMSLEGIT2 -
ShadowHvo✭✭✭✭✭
✭timidobserver wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »So it's been confirmed that vampires in Stage 4 will be considered "criminals" once the Justice System is implemented.
Confirmed where? And when? We're still working out the details of how the Justice System will impact werewolf and vampire players.
My suggestion would be to do something very problematically easy like making vampires gain heat faster. 50% faster in Stage 3 and 75% faster in Stage 4.
Honestly this very thing is the best solution in my mind. It still doesn't force us who likes our roleplaying characters to be nasty vampires with masks covering their faces, to go on rampages throughout towns to clear them out before RP to avoid getting attacked under RP. But does make it more diffcult for them to steal stuff and get away with it.
Personally I will dislike the whole notion of KOS on stage four vampires, unless if they implement a system whereby the vampire can hide their stage by wearing a full mask / helmet. But since that is not very likely, I think your very ideá of having an increased heat / bounty rate would be the best solution.Nighren - The Shadow StrikerLeader of Bloodlines-- EU --
Want to roleplay in elder scrolls online? Check out eso-rp.com0 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »So it's been confirmed that vampires in Stage 4 will be considered "criminals" once the Justice System is implemented.
Confirmed where? And when? We're still working out the details of how the Justice System will impact werewolf and vampire players.
My suggestion would be to do something very problematically easy like making vampires gain heat faster. 50% faster in Stage 3 and 75% faster in Stage 4.
Honestly this very thing is the best solution in my mind. It still doesn't force us who likes our roleplaying characters to be nasty vampires with masks covering their faces, to go on rampages throughout towns to clear them out before RP to avoid getting attacked under RP. But does make it more diffcult for them to steal stuff and get away with it.
Personally I will dislike the whole notion of KOS on stage four vampires, unless if they implement a system whereby the vampire can hide their stage by wearing a full mask / helmet. But since that is not very likely, I think your very ideá of having an increased heat / bounty rate would be the best solution.
Not to be a contrarian...but why on earth would a Stage 4 vampire (or any vampire who is OBVIOUSLY a vampire of some sort, mechanics aside) NOT be KOS in any town they enter? I could certainly see a disguise being implemented but it would need to be susceptible to "breakage" just as most disguises currently are. In other words, it'd work just fine at first glance but would fail to stand up under scrutiny. Maybe with a random chance that certain guards are experienced with vampires and are therefore better at spotting them.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!1 -
Lokryn✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »So it's been confirmed that vampires in Stage 4 will be considered "criminals" once the Justice System is implemented.
Confirmed where? And when? We're still working out the details of how the Justice System will impact werewolf and vampire players.
My suggestion would be to do something very problematically easy like making vampires gain heat faster. 50% faster in Stage 3 and 75% faster in Stage 4.
Honestly this very thing is the best solution in my mind. It still doesn't force us who likes our roleplaying characters to be nasty vampires with masks covering their faces, to go on rampages throughout towns to clear them out before RP to avoid getting attacked under RP. But does make it more diffcult for them to steal stuff and get away with it.
Personally I will dislike the whole notion of KOS on stage four vampires, unless if they implement a system whereby the vampire can hide their stage by wearing a full mask / helmet. But since that is not very likely, I think your very ideá of having an increased heat / bounty rate would be the best solution.
Not to be a contrarian...but why on earth would a Stage 4 vampire (or any vampire who is OBVIOUSLY a vampire of some sort, mechanics aside) NOT be KOS in any town they enter? I could certainly see a disguise being implemented but it would need to be susceptible to "breakage" just as most disguises currently are. In other words, it'd work just fine at first glance but would fail to stand up under scrutiny. Maybe with a random chance that certain guards are experienced with vampires and are therefore better at spotting them.
Agree with Morna on this one. Choosing to be a vampire in ESO should have real consequences. I do think they need to relax the stages a bit though.
If they add a disguise, it should work like those spy quests where you have to stay away from certain NPCs (in this case guards).
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Kolache✭✭✭✭
There aren't really a whole lot of ways I can imagine Guards, (a specific type of NPC meant to do one thing), openly "not liking" Vampires, especially when mentioned in the context of a "Justice" system. Is there a signed/witnessed legal document stating exactly what will happen? No. Is there enough information to hazard a guess? Definitely.No, but he never said that vampires at stage 4 will be considered criminals and be killed on sight. He only said, that the guards don't like vampires at stage 4, that's all.Something being unbalanced in 1v1 does not imply that it is balanced in group play.2 -
GTech_1✭✭✭✭@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JasonLeavey
What worries me more than the potential issues with Vamps and WW's is:
Guards that are completely invulnerable ... not much sport or fun in that.
Only punishment for actively choosing to participate in the new Justice system.
From what I saw in the live stream, the Justice system is *far* too heavily focused on punitive measures, rather than the active *fun* that a system like this can promote.
Since it is a new system, and one in high demand, I would *expect* the system to *reward* participation.
Hope my feedback helps,
GTech_1
Edit: Stuff ... Words ... Spellin' ... Hard!Edited by GTech_1 on December 17, 2014 5:27PM1 -
MrGhosty✭✭✭✭✭I wouldn't be surprised if the compromise is paired with the ability to opt into the justice system itself. They said in one of the recent ESO live episodes that provisioners wouldn't be hurt by having every lootable container marked as stealing in town as they would be able to opt out of the system and it will function the same as it always has.
From a balance perspective, I consider it unlikely stage 4 vamps will be considered kill on sight as there is no where else for people to do their crafting/banking/vendors etc and I doubt they'll be able to make all new content. Now, if the fence facility you enter to sell your stolen goods serves multiple functions (has a bank, crafting stations, etc) then it could be a possibility but one I would still consider unlikely to occur.
From my personal perspective with a vamp character, I would have no issue being forced to hide in the wilderness so long as there was somewhere I could handle my business outside of town. I only have so much time in a day and have to visit towns to clear inventory while questing several times in a session and forcing a waiting time or such mechanics would create needless complications and would negatively impact my game time (which we all are paying for)
"It is a time of strife and unrest. Armies of revenants and dark spirits manifest in every corner of Tamriel. Winters grow colder and crops fail. Mystics are plagued by nightmares and portents of doom."0 -
ShadowHvo✭✭✭✭✭
✭MornaBaine wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »So it's been confirmed that vampires in Stage 4 will be considered "criminals" once the Justice System is implemented.
Confirmed where? And when? We're still working out the details of how the Justice System will impact werewolf and vampire players.
My suggestion would be to do something very problematically easy like making vampires gain heat faster. 50% faster in Stage 3 and 75% faster in Stage 4.
Honestly this very thing is the best solution in my mind. It still doesn't force us who likes our roleplaying characters to be nasty vampires with masks covering their faces, to go on rampages throughout towns to clear them out before RP to avoid getting attacked under RP. But does make it more diffcult for them to steal stuff and get away with it.
Personally I will dislike the whole notion of KOS on stage four vampires, unless if they implement a system whereby the vampire can hide their stage by wearing a full mask / helmet. But since that is not very likely, I think your very ideá of having an increased heat / bounty rate would be the best solution.
Not to be a contrarian...but why on earth would a Stage 4 vampire (or any vampire who is OBVIOUSLY a vampire of some sort, mechanics aside) NOT be KOS in any town they enter? I could certainly see a disguise being implemented but it would need to be susceptible to "breakage" just as most disguises currently are. In other words, it'd work just fine at first glance but would fail to stand up under scrutiny. Maybe with a random chance that certain guards are experienced with vampires and are therefore better at spotting them.
Because ALL ORDINARY people in Tamriel has absolutely no idea about what a vampire looks like. A vampire in ESO looks extremely sick, and that is rather clear. Hell, if sickness was an actual thing in the game and people could become deadly sick, and only a few ever became a vampire while keeping it a top secret, none of us players would know whos characters are vampires, or just extremely sick people who is in dire need of a priest.
That's the whole point everyone seems to forget, espically lore wise, none of those people knows it's a god damn vampire, for all they know it could simply be sick person or a street entertainer trying to scare the non-existing children.
Few in Tamriel are true vampire hunters, and even said vampire hunters are OFTEN fooled by vampires who one way or the other disguises themselves as mortals. If these pro-people who slaughter (Or claim so) vampires for a living, sure as hell can a deadly-sick-looking vampire walk around on the streets with a hood casting a shadow over their disgusting face.
In real life we don't just kill people for being disgusting, we kill them for comitting terrible crimes like slaughters, school shootings and sexoffenders. (At least if you live in a country with death-sentences, which I sadly do not) Even Skyrim figured this out when they updated Vampirism to no longer be KOS on sight in stage 4, but only if they transformed into a monster which only blind people would mistake for a real person.
The whole vampire being hidden in public is a rather big fact throughout Elder Scrolls lore, and even while you, nor others believe said characters to be disgusting, people in Tamriel can see no differences between them, or deadly sick people who needs a healer.
Yes vampires are hatred across most of Tamriel, but I sure as hell would prefer the guards to catch a mass murderer, than kill some innocent vampire who lives on the blood from a camels ass, if I were a citizen in any town in Tamriel.
King Emeric after all were wise enough to see that not all vampires are monsters, that could be the very reason for him to outright state that no vampire who is innocent should be attacked immediately by the guards, but only those who feed on the living shall.Nighren - The Shadow StrikerLeader of Bloodlines-- EU --
Want to roleplay in elder scrolls online? Check out eso-rp.com0 -
ShadowHvo✭✭✭✭✭
✭double post.Edited by ShadowHvo on December 17, 2014 6:38PMNighren - The Shadow StrikerLeader of Bloodlines-- EU --
Want to roleplay in elder scrolls online? Check out eso-rp.com0 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »So it's been confirmed that vampires in Stage 4 will be considered "criminals" once the Justice System is implemented.
Confirmed where? And when? We're still working out the details of how the Justice System will impact werewolf and vampire players.
My suggestion would be to do something very problematically easy like making vampires gain heat faster. 50% faster in Stage 3 and 75% faster in Stage 4.
Honestly this very thing is the best solution in my mind. It still doesn't force us who likes our roleplaying characters to be nasty vampires with masks covering their faces, to go on rampages throughout towns to clear them out before RP to avoid getting attacked under RP. But does make it more diffcult for them to steal stuff and get away with it.
Personally I will dislike the whole notion of KOS on stage four vampires, unless if they implement a system whereby the vampire can hide their stage by wearing a full mask / helmet. But since that is not very likely, I think your very ideá of having an increased heat / bounty rate would be the best solution.
Not to be a contrarian...but why on earth would a Stage 4 vampire (or any vampire who is OBVIOUSLY a vampire of some sort, mechanics aside) NOT be KOS in any town they enter? I could certainly see a disguise being implemented but it would need to be susceptible to "breakage" just as most disguises currently are. In other words, it'd work just fine at first glance but would fail to stand up under scrutiny. Maybe with a random chance that certain guards are experienced with vampires and are therefore better at spotting them.
Because ALL ORDINARY people in Tamriel has absolutely no idea about what a vampire looks like. A vampire in ESO looks extremely sick, and that is rather clear. Hell, if sickness was an actual thing in the game and people could become deadly sick, and only a few ever became a vampire while keeping it a top secret, none of us players would know whos characters are vampires, or just extremely sick people who is in dire need of a priest.
That's the whole point everyone seems to forget, espically lore wise, none of those people knows it's a god damn vampire, for all they know it could simply be sick person or a street entertainer trying to scare the non-existing children.
Few in Tamriel are true vampire hunters, and even said vampire hunters are OFTEN fooled by vampires who one way or the other disguises themselves as mortals. If these pro-people who slaughter (Or claim so) vampires for a living, sure as hell can a deadly-sick-looking vampire walk around on the streets with a hood casting a shadow over their disgusting face.
In real life we don't just kill people for being disgusting, we kill them for comitting terrible crimes like slaughters, school shootings and sexoffenders. (At least if you live in a country with death-sentences, which I sadly do not) Even Skyrim figured this out when they updated Vampirism to no longer be KOS on sight in stage 4, but only if they transformed into a monster which only blind people would mistake for a real person.
The whole vampire being hidden in public is a rather big fact throughout Elder Scrolls lore, and even while you, nor others believe said characters to be disgusting, people in Tamriel can see no differences between them, or deadly sick people who needs a healer.
Yes vampires are hatred across most of Tamriel, but I sure as hell would prefer the guards to catch a mass murderer, than kill some innocent vampire who lives on the blood from a camels ass, if I were a citizen in any town in Tamriel.
King Emeric after all were wise enough to see that not all vampires are monsters, that could be the very reason for him to outright state that no vampire who is innocent should be attacked immediately by the guards, but only those who feed on the living shall.
I get where you are coming from, really, I promise. So let's examine some of this. Say that people DON'T know your vampire IS a vampire at Stage 4. I can actually buy that if I try to forget that bloodfiends, who look VERY like Stage 3 and 4 vampires are ubiquitous throughout the world and decimate entire regions on a regular basis. We'll go ahead and chalk that up to "because MMO." So, okay, MOST people don't know that a Stage 4 vampire is a vampire. But imagine you are a common townie going about your regular townie life and you see one of these "people" for the very first time. Dude, they LOOK like death! They look like plague ravaged corpses that are obviously only still walking because they just don't know they're dead yet! LOL I'm sorry, but if I am doing my Xmas shopping at the local mall (I don't, but let's just go with that) and I am suddenly confronted by a fellow shopper in the very last stages of the Black Plague (making cheerful resurgences at Third World countries even now) you can BET I am going to freak right the hell out! I will, at the very least, be getting my behind AWAY from them and dialing 911 for an ambulance! My reaction is NOT going to be, "Gosh Mister, you don't look so good. Maybe you should sit down? Can I get you a glass of water?" And I'm a fairly "cool under pressure" kind of person. I know PLENTY of people would, at the very least, flat out scream and run...at least after ascertaining that The Walking Dead was not filming at the mall that day. There's just absolutely no logical way this dreadful appearance does NOT draw strong reactions! Now, we're talking about this taking place in a world where, even if they think they've never met one, PEOPLE KNOW VAMPIRES EXIST. I may NEVER have actually SEEN a tiger. BUT I KNOW THEY EXIST. And if I happen to see one strolling loose through the mall one day I'm going to be pretty darned CONCERNED! In fact, I'm pretty sure I'm going to FLEE while screaming, "TIGER!" at the top of my lungs to warn my fellow mall goers. So I really have a hard time buying that in a world where people KNOW that vampires, werewolves and zombies all exist are going to take a look at a Stage 4 vampire and react with nothing more than polite concern.
Also, your comment about living off the blood of camel's is totally nonsensical. We know for a fact that vampires cannot prey on animals, that they DO, in fact, exist solely on the blood of men and mer. I don't care how enlightened you think you are (nor how many episodes of True Blood you have seen), NO ONE is going to react favorably towards a creature that uses them as a food source, often with fatal results. The awareness that some vampires take pains NOT to kill their prey or try to ONLY prey upon those whose removal from the gene pool is a public service is a RARE thing. And even IF people (despite not knowing enough about vampires to know a Stage 4 vampire is a vampire in the first place) DO know that SOME vampires are that way... the DEFAULT position is STILL going to be , "OH MY GOD! BURN IT!" for the VAST majority of people.
Lastly, I just don't buy that Stage 4 vampires just look like "sick" people. Because they don't. They look like MONSTERS. And NOBODY likes a monster. Even the enlightened King Emeric, friend to Ravenwatch, is smart enough to know this and tells his vampire friend to HIDE his condition. Why? Because he rightly understands that NOT doing so is going to get his friend killed.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!1 -
Robocles✭✭✭✭✭Their biggest issue is going to be the idea of making a PVE player PVP targetable, once the full system goes live. In theory, you could be crafting/banking/what have you... then have to go afk for some reason and come back to being PVP flagged because your stage changed.
I like Morna's ideas about swapping the stage 1 and stage 3 timers... that would be a tremendous boon.
We have to wait to see what they decide, though. Maybe on this they will take the whole range of possible outcomes into account before making a decision.
One can always hope, right?1 -
Lokryn✭✭✭✭Both sides of the argument have valid points. From what I can tell, Guards are actually really present and active in each city, it wouldn't take much for them to put up a flier or warn their citizens of the threat of vampires. Even the fighter's guild, while new in the timeline of ESO, could educate the towns they work for. Even priests of Arkay are always talking about vampires. Then you have books on vampires. Tamriel citizens are a paranoid bunch after all and vampires are generally feared and reviled among the populace. This paranoia will vary among the various races/cultures. I imagine it would be much more difficult for a vampire to walk down the streets of Mournhold because of the general hatred Dunmer have for the undead.
With the justice system, townsfolk will be reporting crimes left and right. I mean, you can get a bounty for killing a darn chicken.
It's not too much of a stretch for a citizen to see something off/wrong about a person who looks like a stage 4 vampire and report it to the authorities. 1 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I wouldn't be surprised if the compromise is paired with the ability to opt into the justice system itself. They said in one of the recent ESO live episodes that provisioners wouldn't be hurt by having every lootable container marked as stealing in town as they would be able to opt out of the system and it will function the same as it always has.
From a balance perspective, I consider it unlikely stage 4 vamps will be considered kill on sight as there is no where else for people to do their crafting/banking/vendors etc and I doubt they'll be able to make all new content. Now, if the fence facility you enter to sell your stolen goods serves multiple functions (has a bank, crafting stations, etc) then it could be a possibility but one I would still consider unlikely to occur.
From my personal perspective with a vamp character, I would have no issue being forced to hide in the wilderness so long as there was somewhere I could handle my business outside of town. I only have so much time in a day and have to visit towns to clear inventory while questing several times in a session and forcing a waiting time or such mechanics would create needless complications and would negatively impact my game time (which we all are paying for)
I, for one, am super curious as to what they EXACTLY mean when they say the Justice System will be "opt out" (as they did say the default is Justice System is Enabled). I am all for the PVP aspect of it being opt out because I really don't want to see that forced on people who really just don't want to PvP. But what about the PvE aspect? It just seems a little silly to me that those who choose NOT to participate will be able to loot away from containers that would otherwise count as theft with absolutely no ill effects while the guy next to them reaches for the same radish and the next thing he knows he's being chased by guards. I kind of don't like that idea. And I'm a Provisioner! LOLPAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!1 -
Robocles✭✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »I wouldn't be surprised if the compromise is paired with the ability to opt into the justice system itself. They said in one of the recent ESO live episodes that provisioners wouldn't be hurt by having every lootable container marked as stealing in town as they would be able to opt out of the system and it will function the same as it always has.
From a balance perspective, I consider it unlikely stage 4 vamps will be considered kill on sight as there is no where else for people to do their crafting/banking/vendors etc and I doubt they'll be able to make all new content. Now, if the fence facility you enter to sell your stolen goods serves multiple functions (has a bank, crafting stations, etc) then it could be a possibility but one I would still consider unlikely to occur.
From my personal perspective with a vamp character, I would have no issue being forced to hide in the wilderness so long as there was somewhere I could handle my business outside of town. I only have so much time in a day and have to visit towns to clear inventory while questing several times in a session and forcing a waiting time or such mechanics would create needless complications and would negatively impact my game time (which we all are paying for)
I, for one, am super curious as to what they EXACTLY mean when they say the Justice System will be "opt out" (as they did say the default is Justice System is Enabled). I am all for the PVP aspect of it being opt out because I really don't want to see that forced on people who really just don't want to PvP. But what about the PvE aspect? It just seems a little silly to me that those who choose NOT to participate will be able to loot away from containers that would otherwise count as theft with absolutely no ill effects while the guy next to them reaches for the same radish and the next thing he knows he's being chased by guards. I kind of don't like that idea. And I'm a Provisioner! LOL
Remember, with the exception of the heavy sacks, those are all instanced to you.0 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Their biggest issue is going to be the idea of making a PVE player PVP targetable, once the full system goes live. In theory, you could be crafting/banking/what have you... then have to go afk for some reason and come back to being PVP flagged because your stage changed.
I like Morna's ideas about swapping the stage 1 and stage 3 timers... that would be a tremendous boon.
We have to wait to see what they decide, though. Maybe on this they will take the whole range of possible outcomes into account before making a decision.
One can always hope, right?
Well supposedly the Justice System is going to be "Opt Out" so we may really be worried for nothing. Say you want to go craft for a couple hours, take a phone call and leave your computer... all you have to do is toggle "Justice System OFF" and you can progress all the way to Stage 4 and, just as it is now, no one will notice and it'll have NO effect on either PvP OR PvE. But personally, if that's really the way they are going to do it, I'm going to be really disappointed. I think it's important to have the PvP portion of the Justice system be voluntary... but I really feel it ought to just be a regular part of the game for PvE once it's in.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!1 -
Robocles✭✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »Their biggest issue is going to be the idea of making a PVE player PVP targetable, once the full system goes live. In theory, you could be crafting/banking/what have you... then have to go afk for some reason and come back to being PVP flagged because your stage changed.
I like Morna's ideas about swapping the stage 1 and stage 3 timers... that would be a tremendous boon.
We have to wait to see what they decide, though. Maybe on this they will take the whole range of possible outcomes into account before making a decision.
One can always hope, right?
Well supposedly the Justice System is going to be "Opt Out" so we may really be worried for nothing. Say you want to go craft for a couple hours, take a phone call and leave your computer... all you have to do is toggle "Justice System OFF" and you can progress all the way to Stage 4 and, just as it is now, no one will notice and it'll have NO effect on either PvP OR PvE. But personally, if that's really the way they are going to do it, I'm going to be really disappointed. I think it's important to have the PvP portion of the Justice system be voluntary... but I really feel it ought to just be a regular part of the game for PvE once it's in.
I will agree 100% with that. I don't mind the PVE side of it being in place at all times. I just don't want to come back to my toon flagged for every tool who just sits and waits to wtfpwn some unsuspecting noob just because I had to go check the grill.1 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »Their biggest issue is going to be the idea of making a PVE player PVP targetable, once the full system goes live. In theory, you could be crafting/banking/what have you... then have to go afk for some reason and come back to being PVP flagged because your stage changed.
I like Morna's ideas about swapping the stage 1 and stage 3 timers... that would be a tremendous boon.
We have to wait to see what they decide, though. Maybe on this they will take the whole range of possible outcomes into account before making a decision.
One can always hope, right?
Well supposedly the Justice System is going to be "Opt Out" so we may really be worried for nothing. Say you want to go craft for a couple hours, take a phone call and leave your computer... all you have to do is toggle "Justice System OFF" and you can progress all the way to Stage 4 and, just as it is now, no one will notice and it'll have NO effect on either PvP OR PvE. But personally, if that's really the way they are going to do it, I'm going to be really disappointed. I think it's important to have the PvP portion of the Justice system be voluntary... but I really feel it ought to just be a regular part of the game for PvE once it's in.
I will agree 100% with that. I don't mind the PVE side of it being in place at all times. I just don't want to come back to my toon flagged for every tool who just sits and waits to wtfpwn some unsuspecting noob just because I had to go check the grill.
Right? Yeah that would be super annoying. But really, there's no reason for the Justice System NOT to be enabled at all times on the PvE level. And if it is (as I hope) then they really WILL need to give players more control over what Stage their vampire is in. And after having considered what might literally be EVERY possible way to do that, I still think flipping the times of the Stages between 1 and 3 to be the best possible compromise that will make the largest number of people, (even both PvPers and RPers) happy.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!0 -
Robocles✭✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »Their biggest issue is going to be the idea of making a PVE player PVP targetable, once the full system goes live. In theory, you could be crafting/banking/what have you... then have to go afk for some reason and come back to being PVP flagged because your stage changed.
I like Morna's ideas about swapping the stage 1 and stage 3 timers... that would be a tremendous boon.
We have to wait to see what they decide, though. Maybe on this they will take the whole range of possible outcomes into account before making a decision.
One can always hope, right?
Well supposedly the Justice System is going to be "Opt Out" so we may really be worried for nothing. Say you want to go craft for a couple hours, take a phone call and leave your computer... all you have to do is toggle "Justice System OFF" and you can progress all the way to Stage 4 and, just as it is now, no one will notice and it'll have NO effect on either PvP OR PvE. But personally, if that's really the way they are going to do it, I'm going to be really disappointed. I think it's important to have the PvP portion of the Justice system be voluntary... but I really feel it ought to just be a regular part of the game for PvE once it's in.
I will agree 100% with that. I don't mind the PVE side of it being in place at all times. I just don't want to come back to my toon flagged for every tool who just sits and waits to wtfpwn some unsuspecting noob just because I had to go check the grill.
Right? Yeah that would be super annoying. But really, there's no reason for the Justice System NOT to be enabled at all times on the PvE level. And if it is (as I hope) then they really WILL need to give players more control over what Stage their vampire is in. And after having considered what might literally be EVERY possible way to do that, I still think flipping the times of the Stages between 1 and 3 to be the best possible compromise that will make the largest number of people, (even both PvPers and RPers) happy.
Well... they could make the stage lengths actually make sense when compared to the game world time elapsed... but, well...0
