Low Population Bonus Issues

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · December 2014

It seems I should always log early lol

always miss the pop bonus apart from that time it was 1400

Turelus · December 2014

So if the AD have rather reliably and regally been getting the population bonus from 00:00 - 08:00, what is stopping the following.

Sleep during the day and be ready for a night session of gameplay.
Wait outside Cyrodiil with a full raid, messing about having fun.
Have one scout inside Cyrodiil seeing what's happening, when low population bonus eventually kicks in tell the group.
Group joins campaign and starts capturing everything.
1400+ points unlocked again.
Campaign win.

Edit for more thoughts.

It seems to me that if this population bonus is working the way many of us see it and indeed as ZOS posted on Reddit back when it was implemented, a faction which knows it often gains this bonus regally and in a set time period could focus on the above to maximise their use of the bonus.

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

Thank you for staying patient, all. We have looked into the population bonus and everything seems to be working as designed. To give you a bit more insight into the mechanic, the population bonus is applied and dissolved over time and not immediately. Because of the gradual application, there isn't really a way for players to log in and out to raise or lower the bonus in a consistent way.

We can say after looking at the campaigns from the back end that the battles are often pretty close! That said, we will continue monitoring the campaigns to see if the population bonus needs to be tweaked.

@ZOS_TristanK said in his forums post that the mechanic couldn't be manipulated by players to enable it, however what stops a faction which knows it happens capitalising on it?

We've seen just how insane the points bonus can go if an AD group is claiming the map while it's active, and that it can take a few days for the other two factions to catch up. If this was the happen a couple of times in the final week, then a continues presence from AD players, they could in theory get a 8,000 point lead and win.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · December 2014

I've played every night from Thusday with the exception of last night, we didnt get a bonus during those nights so its not 'reliable'. This being said on every night we have been outnumbered by at least 3-1 if not 4-1 DC players for a good majority of that time. I haven't seen many EP but thats as a result of trying to hold the hordes of smurfs at bay. Its also always funny to me that Blues will always choose to defend against AD when it comes to both keeps and scrolls if its a choice between AD and EP.

Turelus · December 2014

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I've played every night from Thusday with the exception of last night, we didnt get a bonus during those nights so its not 'reliable'. This being said on every night we have been outnumbered by at least 3-1 if not 4-1 DC players for a good majority of that time. I haven't seen many EP but thats as a result of trying to hold the hordes of smurfs at bay. Its also always funny to me that Blues will always choose to defend against AD when it comes to both keeps and scrolls if its a choice between AD and EP.

Interesting, from what I was aware and heard from the EP players who don't sleep ever it was still ticking in rather reliably. Thanks for the information though.

DC are a strange bunch, we have often wondered what they're doing at times, when they've lost a scroll, AD is one keep away from Emperor and they fight at Kingscrest etc. I wonder if we can capture one and dissect it to see how they work.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · December 2014

Maybe it has and I haven't noticed it but I would have thought this post would be updated more as we get it as people normally notice it quite fast.

It could be manipulated however we don't have the population to do so - hence the bonus. In our weekend premade only 12 members turned up this week (more than last week). We used to have over 30.

Tbh if the lag continues I most likely wont be turning up much longer really fed up of trying to take a keep and be stopped only because of lag. At least I know that will only help AD win the campaign.

AbraXuSeXile · December 2014

The reason you guys claim your outnumbered isn't because your actually outnumbered;

A high bracket of your population is messing about at the bridge
Your raids are usually full with randoms tagging along consolidating all your forces to one area
Your raids usually turtle in one spot and hope for the best which in turn causes the lag you guys 'hate' so much

Personally i think it's real sad you guys complain about being outnumbered when it's clearly not the case and you guys do yourselves the world of hurt to yourselves.

Thudunblundur · December 2014

One of the things that amazes me about this is the claim that the bonus cannot be manipulated. I simply don't believe it: heck, the Enigma code was broken, we can put men on the Moon, and they truly believe people with an interest could not break their population bonus?

I shall assume it is a rather remarkable naivete, not stupidity or a lie.

Turelus · December 2014

Just to let everyone know I will be stepping away from this issue until the time ZOS get involved again.

I've spent the last five weeks posting, tweeting, reading, researching and doing everything I can to keep this issue alive and information about what's happening flowing. However I'm honestly just tired of it and where this thread ended up.

Initially I thought this was a broken system and something new which needed addressing, ZOS came forward and gave us the information that it was working as intended (meaning not a bug) and they would continue to watch over it. The last communication from them in regards to this issue was on page four, the 18th of November. Almost a month later, multiple threads, eight more pages and nothing has been said.

Since then the thread has gone from players speaking about the mechanic, reporting when it happened and thinking of better solutions to poo slinging and insinuations of exploiting.

My hope is that ZOS can understand that the system itself while not bugged is working in a way which isn't good for the game, especially on large populated campaigns like EU Thornblade.

I can't say much that I haven't already said in previous posts, I plan now to just continue posting in threads where I feel I could add something constructive or a stupid comment (I want my 1000 lol's badge!) and focus on finding the love I had for this game six months ago.

I might be seen in PVP again soon, but I don't plan to try and win a campaign, I'll be there for the AP, achievements and good fights.

Thanks to all those who support this thread and helped me keep it alive so long.

KBKB · December 2014

Turelus wrote: »

Just to let everyone know I will be stepping away from this issue until the time ZOS get involved again.

I've spent the last five weeks posting, tweeting, reading, researching and doing everything I can to keep this issue alive and information about what's happening flowing. However I'm honestly just tired of it and where this thread ended up.

Initially I thought this was a broken system and something new which needed addressing, ZOS came forward and gave us the information that it was working as intended (meaning not a bug) and they would continue to watch over it. The last communication from them in regards to this issue was on page four, the 18th of November. Almost a month later, multiple threads, eight more pages and nothing has been said.

Since then the thread has gone from players speaking about the mechanic, reporting when it happened and thinking of better solutions to poo slinging and insinuations of exploiting.

My hope is that ZOS can understand that the system itself while not bugged is working in a way which isn't good for the game, especially on large populated campaigns like EU Thornblade.

I can't say much that I haven't already said in previous posts, I plan now to just continue posting in threads where I feel I could add something constructive or a stupid comment (I want my 1000 lol's badge!) and focus on finding the love I had for this game six months ago.

I might be seen in PVP again soon, but I don't plan to try and win a campaign, I'll be there for the AP, achievements and good fights.

Thanks to all those who support this thread and helped me keep it alive so long.

Classic Zenimax, I'm shocked we are still surprised at how terrible their communication is.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · December 2014

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

The reason you guys claim your outnumbered isn't because your actually outnumbered;
A high bracket of your population is messing about at the bridge

Your raids are usually full with randoms tagging along consolidating all your forces to one area

Your raids usually turtle in one spot and hope for the best which in turn causes the lag you guys 'hate' so much

Personally i think it's real sad you guys complain about being outnumbered when it's clearly not the case and you guys do yourselves the world of hurt to yourselves.

Im going off numbers in my 3 pvp guilds. 1 doesnt run at all any more. 1 runs once a week with maybe 10 members showing up consistently (used to be 3 times a week) and final one has about 13 members showing up consistently when theres over 50 people online. All doing PVE.

Also im not complaining about being outnumbered im just saying that it could actually be correct to give us the bonus that is designed. just the numbers are too high (by design).

AbraXuSeXile · December 2014

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

The reason you guys claim your outnumbered isn't because your actually outnumbered;
A high bracket of your population is messing about at the bridge

Your raids are usually full with randoms tagging along consolidating all your forces to one area

Your raids usually turtle in one spot and hope for the best which in turn causes the lag you guys 'hate' so much

Personally i think it's real sad you guys complain about being outnumbered when it's clearly not the case and you guys do yourselves the world of hurt to yourselves.

Im going off numbers in my 3 pvp guilds. 1 doesnt run at all any more. 1 runs once a week with maybe 10 members showing up consistently (used to be 3 times a week) and final one has about 13 members showing up consistently when theres over 50 people online. All doing PVE.

Also im not complaining about being outnumbered im just saying that it could actually be correct to give us the bonus that is designed. just the numbers are too high (by design).

Gone are the days of premades i'm afraid! Most raids are filled with pugs, However i'm too stubborn to succumb to unorganised crapola

The timing of the bonus and the ammount is the real issue, A low pop bonus wouldn't be too bad, But +1460? When you guys was *** us near our homebase was funny as hell.

Isbilen · December 2014

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Its also always funny to me that Blues will always choose to defend against AD when it comes to both keeps and scrolls if its a choice between AD and EP.

That's what you do when you realize you have to sacrifice one or lose both, and giving AD one will give 4x the point increase as it would to EP.

Nermy · December 2014

*oopps* Nearly disappeared there...

Haxnschwammer · December 2014

Will there ever be an honest response from ZOS?

Nicko_Lps · December 2014

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

The reason you guys claim your outnumbered isn't because your actually outnumbered;
A high bracket of your population is messing about at the bridge

Your raids are usually full with randoms tagging along consolidating all your forces to one area

Your raids usually turtle in one spot and hope for the best which in turn causes the lag you guys 'hate' so much

Personally i think it's real sad you guys complain about being outnumbered when it's clearly not the case and you guys do yourselves the world of hurt to yourselves.

So if AD are on a bridge fight and not on the keep fight the system does not take them as they are iside cyrodiill but thinks for instance they are on Auridon?

Cool one mate lol

heng14rwb17_ESO · December 2014

strange, we didn't have this low pop bonus issue when there is still forward camp.

AbraXuSeXile · December 2014

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

The reason you guys claim your outnumbered isn't because your actually outnumbered;
A high bracket of your population is messing about at the bridge

Your raids are usually full with randoms tagging along consolidating all your forces to one area

Your raids usually turtle in one spot and hope for the best which in turn causes the lag you guys 'hate' so much

Personally i think it's real sad you guys complain about being outnumbered when it's clearly not the case and you guys do yourselves the world of hurt to yourselves.

So if AD are on a bridge fight and not on the keep fight the system does not take them as they are iside cyrodiill but thinks for instance they are on Auridon?

Cool one mate lol

You actually have 10IQ.

Turelus · December 2014

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ just answered that there will be changes in Update 6 regarding this issue on the ESO Live show Q&A.

Turelus · December 2014

Double post due to forums error.

Nicko_Lps · December 2014

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

The reason you guys claim your outnumbered isn't because your actually outnumbered;
A high bracket of your population is messing about at the bridge

Your raids are usually full with randoms tagging along consolidating all your forces to one area

Your raids usually turtle in one spot and hope for the best which in turn causes the lag you guys 'hate' so much

Personally i think it's real sad you guys complain about being outnumbered when it's clearly not the case and you guys do yourselves the world of hurt to yourselves.

So if AD are on a bridge fight and not on the keep fight the system does not take them as they are iside cyrodiill but thinks for instance they are on Auridon?

Cool one mate lol

You actually have 10IQ.

Can you at least let me know which IQ measuring scale you used to make this result?

Thanks in advance.

Turelus · December 2014

@AbraxuseXile and @Nick_Lps please find your big boy/girl pants and put them on or leave this thread.

This childish arguing is the reason I stopped caring for the thread. Please focus on the topic/issue feel free to debate its workings but stop posting just to argue.

Thudunblundur · December 2014

Changes in update 6????!!!! Really???

Now, should I laugh or cry?

edit: Bit cynical, I suppose....it's a great thing they are finally addressing some of our concerns...but I have little faith that these will actually work as advertised when implemented and if they DO then they will probably introduce so many bugs it'll take another 6 months to get an idea of what they actually intended.

And no mention of the low pop bonus...?

Turelus · December 2014

Thudunblundur wrote: »

Changes in update 6????!!!! Really???

Now, should I laugh or cry?

edit: Bit cynical, I suppose....it's a great thing they are finally addressing some of our concerns...but I have little faith that these will actually work as advertised when implemented and if they DO then they will probably introduce so many bugs it'll take another 6 months to get an idea of what they actually intended.

And no mention of the low pop bonus...?

They mentioned low pop bonus directly and stated there would be a change for it in update six. However no more information than that.

Aranita · December 2014

And again:

Rasimir · December 2014

@ZOS_GinaBruno I heard this will be adressed somehow with Update 6. This update is probably 6 weeks away, perhaps even more because of the mass of changes coming with U6 and the time it needs testing. Please note that people currently are not playing because of the randomness of scores.

Since it is now known how the explot works, please consider disabling the bonus until we get the fix. 6 weeks means we have to endure this for at least another complete campaign cycle. I fear those players who took a break will not come back if this situation lasts any longer.

Lava_Croft · December 2014

This low population bonus arrived after AD took the entire map with a large night shift and while there will still more AD around than for example EP.

The screenshot also doesn't show the new record score: 1572 points per hour.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO · December 2014

daoc.cyrrob16_ESO wrote: »

And again:

Seems legit. One cannot take the entire map without being heavily outnumbered. Everyone knows that.

daemonios · December 2014

daoc.cyrrob16_ESO wrote: »

And again:

And this is why this month I've been doing writs, pledges, trials and other stuff. Thanks to this, AD has reduced the score difference from about 10k to 4k in one night. That's another 6k points in a few hours. Impossible to pull off without this bonus+map grab exploit.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · December 2014

daemonios wrote: »

daoc.cyrrob16_ESO wrote: »

And again:

And this is why this month I've been doing writs, pledges, trials and other stuff. Thanks to this, AD has reduced the score difference from about 10k to 4k in one night. That's another 6k points in a few hours. Impossible to pull off without this bonus+map grab exploit.

Map grab wasn't an 'exploit' we saw an opportunity to crown emp and took it with coordination from 5 guilds + some zone pugs this then enabled us to cap the map.

The fact we got the bonus after doing this if it is based off last 2 days + activity is valid.

The amount of the bonus is the only questionable area.

Turelus · December 2014

And this is what killed PVP for me in this game.

Also for those saying this is an exploit remember that the mechanic is working as intended (not bugged) so no exploiting is happening, just the fact it's a horribly unbalanced mechanic.