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Low Population Bonus Issues

  • Jeddite_Eso
    Read above. The only way a side can abuse this is if they have low population for several hours before that in which they are vulnarable have low map control and lose: points, map control and scrolls. And for the rest to not have the bonus means they const keep numbers in range for the bonus to not be active and they can defend or even take map control for longer period of time then the one with the bonus. So its working as intended indeed for short period a side get bonus to catch up. However the problem in this is when formula for how much is done with average number taken as constant.
    For example if on 1 campain low priority hours are 3:1 and on other 6:1 and for the formula overall bonus for all campain is taken X*4.4 in a campain where is 6:1 they wont get back the map control and points back no matter what but on the campain where is 3:1 with a bit organisation the disadvantage in numbers in this case can turn in to advantage with this system.
    (Those are just guesses i dont have 100% info how the system works anywhere.)

    There must be a some balance tho. I played only few weeks and as new player only vet 3 atm i get killed all the time everywhere. And if there was no support for the low numbers we had in AD side there wouldn't be any point for me to even think about trying to support my side trying to win. Would mean just to go on campain when really bored once i get vet 14 and trying to kill 1 or 2 enemy while the fight in the 2 side splited map, cause in that time everyone else would have given up and AD side will be dead. I played other games and to make balance for 3 side war is really hard. If one of the 3 side get even a bit lower in power problems start and most of the time ends with players moving to one of the other 2 sides. The max number per side is one of the solutions already added but need one where all are happy when numbers are low also. At the moment this is the low population bonus points. I understand also that to see fewer people to get much more then you normally get doesnt really boost morale also.
    Lets say most of the people fight in prime time for about 6h but campain is open 24h so if any side has higher overall number its normal for them to win by default.

    Will you pvp if you know no matter what you do you will always lose in the end? For me everyone who blames the system without giving at least 1 option how he thinks he will be better has no place here.
    Edited by Jeddite_Eso on December 5, 2014 9:40AM
  • Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
    Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
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    Just logged in and saw AD getting 660 points while holding most of the map.
    Right after tick it fell down to 150.

    Even IF AD was on low pop (which is NOT the case) this bonus
    is far to high. I'm not absolutely sure if AD figured out how to abuse the mechanic or if this
    is a stupid bug that benefits just one faction again and again, but this has to stop.

    Would be nice to qualify this will which campaign and region
    @Solar_Breeze
    NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
    EU ~ Izanagi: Banana Squad (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Roleplay Circle)
  • Haxnschwammer
    Haxnschwammer
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    It happend this morning around 09:00 on Thornblade EU
    Once I was a healer. Then I took a Wrobel to the knee.

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
  • Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
    Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
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    Wow sounds like it's going to be another fun campaign then ._. Probs my fault as I was lvling all last night rather than pvping
    Edited by Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO on December 5, 2014 1:21PM
    @Solar_Breeze
    NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
    EU ~ Izanagi: Banana Squad (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Roleplay Circle)
  • Aranita
    Aranita
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    I have two screenshots from today morning, short bevore tick. AD had most keeps and moste ressources and they had the bonus. Shortly after the tick the bonus went away to came again short before next tick.

    zzt9mqca8zpe.jpg

    mzdcs3hyl4o3.jpg
    Edited by Aranita on December 5, 2014 1:22PM
    Es kommt nicht darauf an, dem Leben mehr Jahre zu geben, sondern den Jahren mehr Leben. (Alexis Carrel)
  • Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
    Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
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    interesting why it was 4 more points the 2nd time...
    same number of keeps.
    @Solar_Breeze
    NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
    EU ~ Izanagi: Banana Squad (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Roleplay Circle)
  • Haxnschwammer
    Haxnschwammer
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    AD took one more of the resources, Arrius Lumbermill was under attack at that time...
    Once I was a healer. Then I took a Wrobel to the knee.

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
  • WolfingHour
    WolfingHour
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    Resources are worth one point. With a low pop multiplier of 4, it give the 4 points diff.
  • Lava_Croft
    Lava_Croft
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    It's probably best to just ignore the scoring altogether and do nothing but farm AP for your personal gain.
  • sphane
    sphane
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    So i would suggest to bring mess in the PVE buffed campains as guests and come back the last day of the Thornblade EU campain to dispute the victory.
  • Gargragrond
    Gargragrond
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    I don't really understand the reasons behind tick-based scoring instead of just continuous scoring, could someone enlighten me? Anyway, it seems like we should all have a buzzer that alarms 5 min before the scoring tick so that everyone knows to log off and get some coffee, if it really works this way.
  • Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
    Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
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    sphane wrote: »
    So i would suggest to bring mess in the PVE buffed campains as guests and come back the last day of the Thornblade EU campain to dispute the victory.

    Please do I like a challenge, I'm not going to abandon the campaign because of the bug but it is disappointing :(
    @Solar_Breeze
    NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
    EU ~ Izanagi: Banana Squad (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Roleplay Circle)
  • Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
    Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
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    @ZOS_MattFiror‌ - Can we have some more investigation on this issue please. Perhaps we can start a kickstarter for 1 days dev investigation pay ;)?
    @Solar_Breeze
    NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
    EU ~ Izanagi: Banana Squad (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Roleplay Circle)
  • daemonios
    daemonios
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    This is bulls***. A faction that actively plays has no chance of getting a +660 tick even if they held all scrolls, keeps, outposts and resources. Haven't been to Cyrodiil since the end of last campaign and my interest in PvP is going through the floor.

    Oh, well... At least I've started clearing Craglorn delves and Undaunted pledges...
  • sphane
    sphane
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    sphane wrote: »
    So i would suggest to bring mess in the PVE buffed campains as guests and come back the last day of the Thornblade EU campain to dispute the victory.

    Please do I like a challenge, I'm not going to abandon the campaign because of the bug but it is disappointing :(

    At the end, I know, I will not leave... My head is very hard (even when you guys are walking/kicking/jumping on it). I'm playing this campain since the beginning after the end of bloodthorne, it's my homeland, and the challenge of the 3rd round you won was very exciting despite the lags and crash and scrollback. I would like to find this challenge again on this campain even if we have to wait 30 minutes to queue on it... But a lot of us are leaving, and this crappy bug is just killing PVP. I could farm AP, but this is boring as hell. And what for at the end ?

    In any case the bonus should not be over the total of the points others factions are gaining in true unbalance situations.

    But to be honnest I would prefer a full removal of any kind of bonus. There is (was) enough people on this campain to manage night capping risk. And you AD have proven you have the best team to recover score without any kind of help (end of the 2nd round and full 3rd round).

    Or adding a lot of other bonuses :
    - One for the team who is cornered the most by the others (such a kind of orange/purple/green alliance penaly)
    -One for the team who have an excess of Nords : we know they are drunk all the day
    - One for the team who have an excess of Khajit : we know they are lazy and sleeping all the day.
    - One for the team who have an excess of Orcs : they are very too stupid.
    - One for the team who is holding Chalman or Drake or Dragon the longest
    - One for the team who is holding Alessia Bridge the longest
    - One for the team who is failing the most in ninja of Glade Faregyl or Arrius
    - One for the team who is camping Kingcrest Lumber the most
    - One for the team who have the highest number of guys who are hiting walls with ice treb
    - and so on : i'm sure there is a lot of idea we all might have. It would be nice we would have at the end a more complex and unpredictible system than the French Tax system.
  • Aranita
    Aranita
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    And again a nice screenshot who shows this unfair low population bonus. AD owns nearly the complete map, almost all scrolls AND gets this bonus.

    Please stop ASAP this unfair advantage for AD. (a few minutes later the bonus is at 1288)

    2s3mquf1qpkt.jpg
    Edited by Aranita on December 6, 2014 5:18AM
    Es kommt nicht darauf an, dem Leben mehr Jahre zu geben, sondern den Jahren mehr Leben. (Alexis Carrel)
  • Aranita
    Aranita
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    Now 1460 bonus. Please stop this.

    [img][/img]cg90ov9esv5z.jpg
    Edited by Aranita on December 6, 2014 6:02AM
    Es kommt nicht darauf an, dem Leben mehr Jahre zu geben, sondern den Jahren mehr Leben. (Alexis Carrel)
  • mainmaneb17_ESO
    mainmaneb17_ESO
    Soul Shriven
    Hey everyone,

    Thank you for your patience while we've been looking into this report. At this time, we haven't found any bugs or behavior to indicate that something is not working as intended, but our team will continue to look into this issue. We'll update you as soon as we have more information.

    Thank you again for your patience.


    Im going to assume that this mechanics is fairly easy to be creative with. If the script checks for population at the same time as the score evaluation kicks in then all you need to do is get your faction to log off 1min before it counts down to 0 and log on 1min after it started counting again. So far I’ve only seen this happen at late night or early morning and usually at those hours you have more or less the same weirdoes playing so it’s easier to coordinate compared to primetime.

    If you, zeno, actually care about the longevity of the game then i advice you to disable this script immediately. If you don’t want to do that and your “team” is still “looking into this issue” then save yourself some work and pm me a number to call when this is occurring and I’ll be more than happy to call you guys.




  • Reverb
    Reverb
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    Now 1460 bonus. Please stop this.

    [img][/img]cg90ov9esv5z.jpg

    This has to be a joke.

    Or maybe ESO is not a game, it's a well funded social experiment to see how many bugs, and of what type, the gaming community will endure in a mmo before reaching 90% attrition. We are determing the issue threshold for future gaming development. That's the only reasonable explanation for the craptastic degradation of pvp we continually see here.

    Edited to add : To be clear, I play on the NA servers, and we have seen issues with the low pop bonus, but nothing like the mind boggling examples you guys are posting from the eu campaigns.
    Edited by Reverb on December 6, 2014 6:54AM
    Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche
  • Rasimir
    Rasimir
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    Fact is, people see very high bonus numbers. These numbers are much higher than those anybody can achieve by fighting and owning the map. We don't understand this and it starts arguments about exploits and finally results in naming and shaming.

    At this point it is irrelevant if the mechanic works as intended and the numbers may be justified by for example a population sample over 12 hours. The reputation of the system is damaged beyond repair.

    I suggest a new system: sample population averages over the one hour between score evaluations. Then make the keeps some factions owns count less according to the population difference between the current owner and the faction whose home keep it is. For example, if DC owns Chalman (an EP home keep) at score evaluation, and EP has had a much lower population during the last hour, reduce the points DC gets for Chalman.

    That way, winning a keep / scroll still counts, but it counts less against a low pop faction. Night capping against absent factions won't give much points this way, and fighting still counts.
  • daemonios
    daemonios
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    I played on Thornblade EU last night until past 1am GMT and yellows were fighting over Nikel/Brindle/Ash on one side and over Blue Road Keep/Arrius/Sejanus on the other. No way they were vastly outnumbered, nor were their keeps and resources taken. They were also far from being underdog, since they were in second place. Yet they pull this stunt of +1400 in the middle of the night WITH a full map cap?

    Screw this. The last post from any CS Rep on this issue was 3 weeks ago. If this is working as designed, it was designed badly. If it's being abused, they've had ample time to research the abuse. In any case, they SHOULD have told us something else by now. Since they haven't, I have no choice but to think that ZOS are both clueless and incompetent.
  • sphane
    sphane
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    There is no more word to explain how it's ridiculous.
  • Koma Vicici
    Koma Vicici
    Soul Shriven
    ZOS what is wrong with you?
    i cant belive things like this.
    Koma Vicici - VR16 DK
    Koma Vicicii - VR16 Templar
    Koma Blade - VR16 NB

    playing for eXile
    Gaming Community - Est. 1999
    http://www.exile-corp.com
    http://www.twitch.tv/exilecorp.
  • Haxnschwammer
    Haxnschwammer
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    For the 17 years of online gaming I never played PVP.I felt disgusted. This game managed to make me enjoy PvP. I had fun for many hours.
    But now? I refuse to enter Cyrodiil while this bonus is abused.
    Once I was a healer. Then I took a Wrobel to the knee.

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
  • Turelus
    Turelus
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    Now 1460 bonus. Please stop this.

    [img][/img]cg90ov9esv5z.jpg

    WHAT THE **** !?!

    Don't worry everyone, the fact only one faction has had this bonus for over a month now, the fact it goes higher that 3x total map control, the fact members of my guild are leaving PVP and the game isn't an issue at all.

    Because... this mechanic is....

    Working...
    ... As....
    INTENDED!!! *crowed cheers wildly*


    Yeah, I am being a sarcastic jerk ZOS, because I made how many civil, constructive and informative posts, I was polite to the developers replying.

    You know how @ZOS_MattFiror posted in the recent road ahead "Worked to increase our overall transparency and communication with you, our community, which is also a continuing effort" well I will out right tell you, no your communication with your community sucks.

    It's the same half-arsed effort every large MMO company has and thinks is good, because 80% of their player based don't care. Leaving this dumb mechanic behind a moment here is an example of how you deal with your community and issues that come up. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=search&devbadge=1&gmbadge=1

    You see that? You see how many developer, community reps, GM's and other members of the CCP staff post there with their players? Also go and take a look at #tweetfleet on Twitter, see how CCP developers post in there, joke laugh and answer questions?

    This issue is over a month old now, it's pissed off pretty much every member of the PVP community and all we have heard is two token posts of "we will look into it, but it seems fine."

    I'm so angry right now, I cancelled my sub over it earlier this month and reactivated again when it seemed we were getting somewhere, however maybe I should just do what members of my guild and friends in the community have done, close it fully and go play other games.

    Tell me why I should pay you any money when the aspect of the game I pay you for, actively works to screw me over. Maybe even tell me why this mechanic is allowed to break the max points limit, why should players not playing the game have better chances to win PVP than players like me who dedicate hours a day to defending and attacking keeps?

    What do we have to actually do to get this looked into seriously, to have a member of the ZOS team come in here and start talking about this, create a back and forth about the idea, ask us what we think about x and if y could help as well. If you find their getting bombarded by the toxic and moronic members of this community, ban those people from the forums and let players like me, who want to have a talk about making this game better for everyone actually worth with you to fix it.

    /endrant
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • sphane
    sphane
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    I want a flower gathering bonus for my potions ! I am at low pop for picking flowers since months when I was trying to do fair PVP !

    "Je me presse de rire de tout avant d'être obligé d'en pleurer"
    Beaumarchais, Le Mariage de Figaro
  • Lava_Croft
    Lava_Croft
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    The worst thing of all is that this obvious bug with scoring creates a toxicity among players that is just bad for the community as a whole.
  • seneferab16_ESO
    seneferab16_ESO
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    Now 1460 bonus. Please stop this.

    [img][/img]cg90ov9esv5z.jpg

    @ZOS_mattfiror Are you absolutely SURE this is working as intended??
    Aerin Treerunner, pre dinner snack
  • Lava_Croft
    Lava_Croft
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    Just keep coughing up the dough, people! It's a very small indie studio so cut them some slack!
  • Nicko_Lps
    Nicko_Lps
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    Lava_Croft wrote: »
    Nicko_Lps wrote: »
    You lost for 1k i was in both when the bonus proced and when we won you. The bonus was irrelevant,if you want my opinion without it we would had won you easyer cause after if you purples were fighting us for like 5 straight hours?


    Enjoy the 50vs20 zergs?

    Enjoy low population bonus?

    Hm
    Losing by a 1000 points to a faction that received (conservative estimate) 5000 points through a broken low population bonus does not make it look that irrelevant at all.

    You were always loosing from that faction except from once that we were on haderus and switched thornblade plus most of our guilds were pve-ing for a least half of campain duration. Sorry that ur hope to win was ruined but that life. But i can guarantee you that in the next majorpve update you will win a campain again. Best wishes untill then :)

    When you carry ur tail dear argonian with the dark elfs 70xraid against 20 its fair, u like it now with the low population bonus you dont like.

    Jfyi when the last bonus proc 2 people at the same time on ts said wahaha kriss is gonna post pics and whine on the forum lol.

    Kriss----> eternal forum whiner with attidute (lol)
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