Balance in PvP ESO the complete ability overhaul.

SRIBES · November 2014

I think the classes and builds in general in ESO are much better now compared to how they were when ESO first launched. I wanted to go over some skills I think that need nerfing/buffing, ideas, and game mechanics and hopefully you guys make similar comments and zos sees this thread. I will mainly be going over my concerns from a PvP perspective.

ESO advertised itself as a game where you could use any armor, weapon, race or class and be efficient. However this is still not the case. A NB using mainly S/S abilities in PvP is going to die. A nightblade in heavy armor and duel wield or a DK in heavy armor with a staff really is not all that effective. A DK in medium armor with a staff is not all that effective either. Magika builds use light armor, stamina builds use medium armor, and really heavy armor is only useful for PvE tanking. I believe if some class abilities are buffed and nerfed then this only magika builds use light armor/stam builds use medium armor thing gets fixed also it is possible to achieve complete balance in a game for once here are some class abilities/passives I think need buffing/nerfing.

NB: Needs buffs on abilities that are ***.
Blur - I really think this ability should become a solid 30% miss chance, not many NBs use it and the skills i'm going over are skills that aren't normally used in PvP.
Dark Cloak - Fix it Zos!
Path of darkness - I think this skill should become more like wall of elements to help accumulate ultimate fast and make this skill actually useful besides running faster.
Agony - Make this an instant cast like DK's fossilize, OR just take out this skill all together and add a new burst heal skill in here which is a touch on target and steals health from them.
Lotus Fan - Increase the immediate AoE damage.
Ambush - Nerf the 30% damage increase to next attack to 20% so people don't get hit with 1k surprise attacks.

DK: Balanced for the most part. Needs a small nerf on reflect and minor buffs/nerfs on other skills.
Reflect - Halts magika and stamina regeneration while ability is active and change one of the morphs so you only get 50% of your normal stamina/magika when using it. This skill gets complained about a lot but honestly if it wasn't for this skill DK would be completed wrecked in a 1vX and not even have a fighting chance.
Burning Embers - Heal for 60% of damage done instead of 30%.
Fiery Grip - Make it so people can be chained down from walls again with this ability and not give CC immunity on people pulled.
Inferno - Make it a one cast deal so it doesn't constantly drain magika and become useless in PvP.
Flame Lash - The follow up attack should either just cost nothing or restore health. Not both, maybe a random chance to do both?

Templar: Pretty balanced does not need to many nerfs/buffs overall.
Blazing Shield - Don't allow shield strength to increase per person around.
Nova - Increase duration by at least five seconds.
Backlack - Make it so this can't be purged.

Sorcerer: Needs buffs...
There really is nothing specific for sorcerer that they need but they lack so
many things other classes have. Good spammable like AoE aka un nerf bolt escape.. (Talons, Sap, Blazing) Melee DPS (flame lash, surprise attack, biting jabs) and a DoT (Vampires bane, cripple, Unstable flame.) If sorc just had one of each of these they would be on par but they seem the weakest as of now.

Some weapon skills:
Snipe - One hit kill pretty much, nuf said.
All stamina AoEs: They should be able to go through block, magika AoEs can so why shouldn't stamina?
Reduce ultimate gain slightly from skills like impulse and elemental blockade.
Add weapon ultimates and make the stamina ones have great AoE ultimates.

Do you agree with some of my ideas and what are some of yours? Hopefully if these skills don't get balanced spell crafting and champion system will work these things out on its own.

( Oh yeah and WW needs more buffs... And vampire needs some single target dot or burst skills..)

ThePlayer · November 2014

They changed something, but still not enough. Still many players in the end game, talking about dps, use light armor and healing stuff to reach the coveted 800-1000 dps; this means that the skills that use stamina must still be improved.
Regarding the armor i think that you can not ask for everything, medium armor for stamina, light armor for magika, heavy armor for tanking, that's okay.

PS- Sure there are special cases where the tank can use light armor using the rings and special spells that increase armor.

guybrushtb16_ESO · November 2014

[quote="AsweetRoll;141030"]
DK: Balanced for the most part. Needs a small nerf on reflect and minor buffs/nerfs on other skills.
Reflect - Halts magika and stamina regeneration while ability is active and change one of the morphs so you only get 50% of your normal stamina/magika when using it. This skill gets complained about a lot but honestly if it wasn't for this skill DK would be completed wrecked in a 1vX and not even have a fighting chance.
[/quote]

I really don't know why people insist that DKs somehow need this to be viable at range. True, they don't have ranged abilities in their class lines, but the best ranged abilities (crushing shock and snipe) aren't in the class lines anyway. Even those classes who do have ranged abilities use almost none of them because crushing shock is just straight better, and DKs even get a nice bonus to that due to their class passives. Should they decide to go melee, the best charge skill in the game again is available to them through the 1h+shield line, which synergizes very well with the rest of their loadout.

Really, there is no disadvantage to DKs that needs to be offset by having insanely strong permanent reflect available. It really should get a hit with the nerf bat, preferrably a treatment like bolt escape, so it can be used situationally but not permanently kept up for entire encounters.

Other then that, I'd agree with most of your points. My suggestions would be:

NB
Path of Darkness: If it has to have a speed buff, the buff should stay on people for the duration after touching the path once. Having a movement speed buff that is restricted to a very tiny area is really just a ridiculous idea IMO, and definitely not worth the time or resources to cast it for that.

Ambush: I like it as it is. The +30% does make for great numbers on the death recap, but in truth it doesn't do that much really. Ambush itself does lower damage than most of your arsenal, and you can't weave a light attack after it if you want to consume the buff for surprise attack, so it really looks like more than it does effectively.

DK
Fiery Grip: Being chained down from the wall right into the mob and not even getting cc immunity is rather cheap IMO, I for one don't miss that.

Templar
Sadly suffers from a lot of broken or redundant skills when it comes to dps, healing is standing out because of breath of life. Maybe spellcrafting could get a slightly weaker version of it (less raw healing and/or no secondary heals for example.

Dark Flare is a dps loss, could use a crystal fragments treating to justify using it even occasionally IMO, also procced instants need to lose their longer gcd.

Toppling Charge needs to lose the ridiculous gcd, fixes have already been promised, but I'm skeptical for now.

Power of the light should be instant and stack to one per templar, not one per mob, the damage actually is very good on this one, and it's a great opportunity for healers to squeeze in some dps because of it's very good per-cast damage and party scaling, purifying light would need to get a dramatically bigger radius along with being instant at the very least.

Sorc
Needs something, anything really, for dps.

Crystal Fragments is their "signature move" for dps, but sadly it's literally always a dps loss, even with proc, so it really only could see some use in pvp, maybe but that's about it already.

My best idea would be to collapse both current morphs of lightning splash into one for those who want it, and make the now free alternative morph a single target lightning dot similar to searing strike.

SRIBES · November 2014

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

[quote="AsweetRoll;141030"]
DK: Balanced for the most part. Needs a small nerf on reflect and minor buffs/nerfs on other skills.
Reflect - Halts magika and stamina regeneration while ability is active and change one of the morphs so you only get 50% of your normal stamina/magika when using it. This skill gets complained about a lot but honestly if it wasn't for this skill DK would be completed wrecked in a 1vX and not even have a fighting chance.

I really don't know why people insist that DKs somehow need this to be viable at range. True, they don't have ranged abilities in their class lines, but the best ranged abilities (crushing shock and snipe) aren't in the class lines anyway. Even those classes who do have ranged abilities use almost none of them because crushing shock is just straight better, and DKs even get a nice bonus to that due to their class passives. Should they decide to go melee, the best charge skill in the game again is available to them through the 1h+shield line, which synergizes very well with the rest of their loadout.

Really, there is no disadvantage to DKs that needs to be offset by having insanely strong permanent reflect available. It really should get a hit with the nerf bat, preferrably a treatment like bolt escape, so it can be used situationally but not permanently kept up for entire encounters.
[/quote]

Try to 1vX how most NBs and templars do with out reflect on your hot bar as a magika DK. I agree with everything else you said also for the most part except for chains, there is almost 0 point in using it in PvP. Being able to chain people down from walls that are trying to snipe people on ledges are bound to get hurt eventually standing there anyways. It will make chains have a point again, at least in group play.

Dracane · November 2014

I agree, Sorcerer definately needs the most love. And DK and Templar a few nerfs here and there (especially the insane self-heal of the 2 classes are too much and make them superior compared to Sorcs and NB's) And yes, DK's should stay melee fighters. Strong ranged spells would make them a bit too strong again.

guybrushtb16_ESO · November 2014

AsweetRoll wrote: »

Try to 1vX how most NBs and templars do with out reflect on your hot bar as a magika DK. I agree with everything else you said also for the most part except for chains, there is almost 0 point in using it in PvP. Being able to chain people down from walls that are trying to snipe people on ledges are bound to get hurt eventually standing there anyways. It will make chains have a point again, at least in group play.

I would assume that without reflect on their hotbar, magicka DKs would fare like every other class in the game in that situation, it's not like they just roll over and die when faced with anything ranged. They can still just shoot back or charge in like everybody else would.

Similarly, people who are trying to snipe from ledges can and should be fired at by the people below, because that's what everybody else has to do. Chains still very much has a point in pve to gather mobs in your parties' aoes, which in games with dedicated roles such as this often is a typical task for the tank. It won't be particularly good in pvp most of the time, but then there are lots of other skills which fare even worse against other players, and I still wouldn't call it useless.

Ohioastro · November 2014

Agony is a very powerful crowd control tool, and it's incredibly useful in PvE for turning groups of three into groups of two.

Gorthax · November 2014

I seriously hate when people say DK dont have ranged abilities.....you have stone fist! Boom! THERE is a range ability >_>

SRIBES · November 2014

Gorthax wrote: »

I seriously hate when people say DK dont have ranged abilities.....you have stone fist! Boom! THERE is a range ability >_>

It's not that it's the fact that it is almost impossible to do anything over a 1v3 on a really well played dragonknight without scales. The only thing they can run in and do is spam green dragon blood and wait to die. All other classes have a chace 1vX NB can tank and live FOREVER with sap essence if enough people are around and templar can sit there with searing light and blazing shield.

Astien · November 2014

+1

all excellent suggestions.

Gorthax · November 2014

AsweetRoll wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

I seriously hate when people say DK dont have ranged abilities.....you have stone fist! Boom! THERE is a range ability >_>

It's not that it's the fact that it is almost impossible to do anything over a 1v3 on a really well played dragonknight without scales. The only thing they can run in and do is spam green dragon blood and wait to die. All other classes have a chace 1vX NB can tank and live FOREVER with sap essence if enough people are around and templar can sit there with searing light and blazing shield.

I have seen DK take on 10+ people and WIN. Block casting is a thing ya know lol block cast + talons + lava whip ='s every standard DK pvp build. Don't have to mention RS as that's just mandatory for DK since it is abused to oblivion and back lol I said it before and I will say it again. DK are so strong they survived 5+ nerfs and are still (as some DK claim) "balanced" they are so strong they can survive Dev abilities lol

*edit* to clarify I'm NOT saying nerf DK as we have seen that doesn't work. Instead BUFF every other class!

SRIBES · November 2014

Gorthax wrote: »

AsweetRoll wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

I seriously hate when people say DK dont have ranged abilities.....you have stone fist! Boom! THERE is a range ability >_>

It's not that it's the fact that it is almost impossible to do anything over a 1v3 on a really well played dragonknight without scales. The only thing they can run in and do is spam green dragon blood and wait to die. All other classes have a chace 1vX NB can tank and live FOREVER with sap essence if enough people are around and templar can sit there with searing light and blazing shield.

I have seen DK take on 10+ people and WIN. Block casting is a thing ya know lol block cast + talons + lava whip ='s every standard DK pvp build. Don't have to mention RS as that's just mandatory for DK since it is abused to oblivion and back lol I said it before and I will say it again. DK are so strong they survived 5+ nerfs and are still (as some DK claim) "balanced" they are so strong they can survive Dev abilities lol

I have seen every class and every class I have played I have been able or seen people take on 10+. DK can not do that without reflect. I know how to play dragonknight and reflect is such a key ability to 1vX for them, the ability can not be nerfed to the ground just adjusted so it becomes less of a keep up 24/7. All I am stating is most people say the class is OP and only because of the skill which is true to some degree (not as much as they claim) and needs to be looked at but if it nerfed any more than it needs to DK will become the weakest class.

david.haypreub18_ESO · November 2014

Scales needs to be changed to only reflect physical projectiles. If DKs want to protect from magical ones they can use Harness Magicka or Defensive Posture, which is open to anyone.

Gorthax · November 2014

AsweetRoll wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

AsweetRoll wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

I seriously hate when people say DK dont have ranged abilities.....you have stone fist! Boom! THERE is a range ability >_>

It's not that it's the fact that it is almost impossible to do anything over a 1v3 on a really well played dragonknight without scales. The only thing they can run in and do is spam green dragon blood and wait to die. All other classes have a chace 1vX NB can tank and live FOREVER with sap essence if enough people are around and templar can sit there with searing light and blazing shield.

I have seen DK take on 10+ people and WIN. Block casting is a thing ya know lol block cast + talons + lava whip ='s every standard DK pvp build. Don't have to mention RS as that's just mandatory for DK since it is abused to oblivion and back lol I said it before and I will say it again. DK are so strong they survived 5+ nerfs and are still (as some DK claim) "balanced" they are so strong they can survive Dev abilities lol

I have seen every class and every class I have played I have been able or seen people take on 10+. DK can not do that without reflect. I know how to play dragonknight and reflect is such a key ability to 1vX for them, the ability can not be nerfed to the ground just adjusted so it becomes less of a keep up 24/7. All I am stating is most people say the class is OP and only because of the skill which is true to some degree (not as much as they claim) and needs to be looked at but if it nerfed any more than it needs to DK will become the weakest class.

This is too funny!! I have NEVER seen a sorc in a group of 10 people taking ALL the damage, dealing damage, AND healing back to full ever.....nor a NB. Templar yes. DK yes. DK are power houses. If they took away reflect (not saying they will or should just saying IF) then they would STILL be power houses. Just their stamina would go down slightly faster because they can not reflect all those projectiles anymore.

Also, I highly doubt you took on 10 people at once all damaging you AT ONCE and killed them while frolicking away laughing ( as a sorc). Just doesnt happen lol not with how bad sorcs are. Or did you mean any class can setup for tank and do that. If that is what you meant, then sure. DK still do it far

Hypertionb14_ESO · November 2014

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Scales needs to be changed to only reflect physical projectiles. If DKs want to protect from magical ones they can use Harness Magicka or Defensive Posture, which is open to anyone.

would be a good chance since more than 50% of all ranged attacks are magic based, but the most hard hitting ones are Physical (specifically Snipe)

Khivas_Carrick · November 2014

Seriously, people that aren't DK's think DKs are fine and/or actually need buffs? And People who aren't Templars, think Templars need nerfs.

Oh that's cute, real cute.

From a PvP standpoint I will say that yes, Templars are actually ok in the standings, but for PvE, it's a blatantly unfair contest that Templars and Sorcs got the short straw after it fell in the horse's crap pile. DKs and NBs by far surpass Templars and Sorcs for DPS in most builds, except for Sorcs that are casters. I saw a sorc solo a boss, but that's besides the point.

Templars need a little love here because as others have said, we suffer from redundant, useless, or simply bad mechanics when we really don't need to be suffering from that stuff, all the while a DK in PvE can't heal, and that's literally it. Even then it isn't literal because they can technically pop on a resto staff and use that to heal, it's just not as uber powerful.

I think Ima go take a nap, I'm too negative to be on the forums right now lol

Keep talking guys, discussions are always healthy.

Hypertionb14_ESO · November 2014

Sorcs have a PvE advantage not in DPS but in pure survability. Where other classes might struggle to stay alive while Doing damage, a Sorc with Crit surge can do DPS while healing themselves at the same time.

This being effective vs AOE and Singletarget is something no other class has. Templar and DK have to use an ability that only heals, and Nightblade has to either rely on a kill or a far weaker HoT.

In Trials, This is no realy use however, and in Dungoens, if you have a good tank and healer its also better to have higher DPS..

as a Result, the greatest power of sorcs is in soloing... which in a MMO is by far the worst thing to focus a class on..

SRIBES · November 2014

Gorthax wrote: »

AsweetRoll wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

AsweetRoll wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

I seriously hate when people say DK dont have ranged abilities.....you have stone fist! Boom! THERE is a range ability >_>

It's not that it's the fact that it is almost impossible to do anything over a 1v3 on a really well played dragonknight without scales. The only thing they can run in and do is spam green dragon blood and wait to die. All other classes have a chace 1vX NB can tank and live FOREVER with sap essence if enough people are around and templar can sit there with searing light and blazing shield.

I have seen DK take on 10+ people and WIN. Block casting is a thing ya know lol block cast + talons + lava whip ='s every standard DK pvp build. Don't have to mention RS as that's just mandatory for DK since it is abused to oblivion and back lol I said it before and I will say it again. DK are so strong they survived 5+ nerfs and are still (as some DK claim) "balanced" they are so strong they can survive Dev abilities lol

I have seen every class and every class I have played I have been able or seen people take on 10+. DK can not do that without reflect. I know how to play dragonknight and reflect is such a key ability to 1vX for them, the ability can not be nerfed to the ground just adjusted so it becomes less of a keep up 24/7. All I am stating is most people say the class is OP and only because of the skill which is true to some degree (not as much as they claim) and needs to be looked at but if it nerfed any more than it needs to DK will become the weakest class.

This is too funny!! I have NEVER seen a sorc in a group of 10 people taking ALL the damage, dealing damage, AND healing back to full ever.....nor a NB. Templar yes. DK yes. DK are power houses. If they took away reflect (not saying they will or should just saying IF) then they would STILL be power houses. Just their stamina would go down slightly faster because they can not reflect all those projectiles anymore.

Also, I highly doubt you took on 10 people at once all damaging you AT ONCE and killed them while frolicking away laughing ( as a sorc). Just doesnt happen lol not with how bad sorcs are. Or did you mean any class can setup for tank and do that. If that is what you meant, then sure. DK still do it far

You obviously don't PvP much, I will link 2 NB and 2 sorc videos of some of them doing a 1vX. I don't even see what point you are trying to make.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EBjIxlTW_rc

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn92Vj_HDl4

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FmfQp77Iv90

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wxaYMQhl64w

Terror · November 2014

looks to me like this thread has the typical attitude of "I cant beat class A, nerf it, Buff class B (my class)." Love these threads.

Personally, I would like to see an armor or spell resistance buff for nightblades, Evasion is a joke, Mirage is alright.. but to rely on a miss chance or dodge chance is ignorant at best. Armor is solid physical damage mitigation, Spell resistance is solid spell damage mitigation. Every other class seems to have some sort of ability to assist in these areas, I'd like to see one for NB as well. (I do not play a nightblade, but something I've noticed.)

I do play a dragon knight, I would not be opposed to an 8 second cooldown on reflective scales, for the simple fact that it will be a complaint if we ever get real dueling in effect and I can't agree that it should have 100% up time.

People complaining about snipe... just stop. Its not the only somewhat powerful attack in this game, and there are plenty ways to mitigate it.

SRIBES · November 2014

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Seriously, people that aren't DK's think DKs are fine and/or actually need buffs? And People who aren't Templars, think Templars need nerfs.

Oh that's cute, real cute.

From a PvP standpoint I will say that yes, Templars are actually ok in the standings, but for PvE, it's a blatantly unfair contest that Templars and Sorcs got the short straw after it fell in the horse's crap pile. DKs and NBs by far surpass Templars and Sorcs for DPS in most builds, except for Sorcs that are casters. I saw a sorc solo a boss, but that's besides the point.

Templars need a little love here because as others have said, we suffer from redundant, useless, or simply bad mechanics when we really don't need to be suffering from that stuff, all the while a DK in PvE can't heal, and that's literally it. Even then it isn't literal because they can technically pop on a resto staff and use that to heal, it's just not as uber powerful.

I think Ima go take a nap, I'm too negative to be on the forums right now lol

Keep talking guys, discussions are always healthy.

I'm talking about this from a PvP only point of view as I don't spend enough time in PvE to have an opinion lol. Enjoy your nap

SRIBES · November 2014

Terror wrote: »

looks to me like this thread has the typical attitude of "I cant beat class A, nerf it, Buff class B (my class)." Love these threads.

Personally, I would like to see an armor or spell resistance buff for nightblades, Evasion is a joke, Mirage is alright.. but to rely on a miss chance or dodge chance is ignorant at best. Armor is solid physical damage mitigation, Spell resistance is solid spell damage mitigation. Every other class seems to have some sort of ability to assist in these areas, I'd like to see one for NB as well. (I do not play a nightblade, but something I've noticed.)

I do play a dragon knight, I would not be opposed to an 6 second cooldown on reflective scales, for the simple fact that it will be a complaint if we ever get real dueling in effect.

People complaining about snipe... just stop. Its not the only somewhat powerful attack in this game, and there are plenty ways to mitigate it. - Sure beats getting ambushed.

I play/played several classes and the things i've gone over are mainly what I have seen others talk about and some of my opinion. I think zos advertised ESO as a game where you can be effective with any weapon in any armor and they should hold true to that statement and balance the skills people cry nerfs about. If you don't agree with something particular I said feel free to try and change my mind or tell me about another skill you think needs balancing and I would edit it in.

Joy_Division · November 2014

Gorthax wrote: »

This is too funny!! I have NEVER seen a sorc in a group of 10 people taking ALL the damage, dealing damage, AND healing back to full ever.....nor a NB. Templar yes. DK yes. DK are power houses. If they took away reflect (not saying they will or should just saying IF) then they would STILL be power houses. Just their stamina would go down slightly faster because they can not reflect all those projectiles anymore.

Also, I highly doubt you took on 10 people at once all damaging you AT ONCE and killed them while frolicking away laughing ( as a sorc). Just doesnt happen lol not with how bad sorcs are. Or did you mean any class can setup for tank and do that. If that is what you meant, then sure. DK still do it far

To enter Cyrodiil, you need to hit the "Alliance War" tab (defaults to L) and then choose a home campaign. There is a brief tutorial I'd recommend completing as it will net you some XP, alliance points and some gold.

When first gaming in Cyrodiil, I'd recommend joining a group as these veterans can offer helpful advice and there is safety in numbers as you will need to be prepared to faced the many challenges that are in PvP.

Then you can actually spend some time in Cyrodiil and objectively see what all the classes are capable of rather than parrot simplistic narratives from frustrated people with bruised egos.

SRIBES · November 2014

Joy_Division wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

This is too funny!! I have NEVER seen a sorc in a group of 10 people taking ALL the damage, dealing damage, AND healing back to full ever.....nor a NB. Templar yes. DK yes. DK are power houses. If they took away reflect (not saying they will or should just saying IF) then they would STILL be power houses. Just their stamina would go down slightly faster because they can not reflect all those projectiles anymore.

Also, I highly doubt you took on 10 people at once all damaging you AT ONCE and killed them while frolicking away laughing ( as a sorc). Just doesnt happen lol not with how bad sorcs are. Or did you mean any class can setup for tank and do that. If that is what you meant, then sure. DK still do it far

To enter Cyrodiil, you need to hit the "Alliance War" tab (defaults to L) and then choose a home campaign. There is a brief tutorial I'd recommend completing as it will net you some XP, alliance points and some gold.

When first gaming in Cyrodiil, I'd recommend joining a group as these veterans can offer helpful advice and there is safety in numbers as you will need to be prepared to faced the many challenges that are in PvP.

Best thing i've read all day.

Pmarsico9 · November 2014

Templars in PVE have extreme prejudice against them as DPS.

My personal test: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/141103/i-spent-a-week-and-a-half-talking-to-various-gms-about-running-trials-on-my-templar

How screwed up the Templar damage delivery system is and has absolutely garbage abilities in it:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/136047/discussion-templars-dawns-wrath-skill-line

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/131268/discussion-templar-part-1-aedric-spear

Are Templars strong in PVP? Of course, because Resto Staff is underpowered and Templars are the only source of a true big, burst heal. Combine that with a bubble that scales based on what's around and explodes for the damage it eats, you have some things which sound cool in a vacuum but in reality are impossible to balance. Backlash and Eclipse are further examples of this.

The other thing that nobody ever talks about is the Tanking Role in ESO and the mechanics of tanking:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/129384/the-tanking-issue-there-arent-tanks-the-tank-role-is-non-existent

It needs major work. Simply applying and maintaining a debuff and holding up your shield is not really that engaging and the necessity of tanks is arguable in a lot of cases.

SUGGESTIONS:

In Regards to Templars:

Read the threads and notice the hundreds of amazing suggestions to fix bad or non-working abilities.

In Regards to tanking:

Provide a means to hold threat, necessitate heavy armor, allow Sword and Shield and Heavy Armor equipped at the same time to increase damage mitigation beyond 50% and let tanks have threat modifiers. There's enough variation in the game, necessitating one thing for one role isn't the end of the world, provided you let people actually do things and provide some resource regeneration for tanks..........right now it's about CC on AoE and holding down your right mouse button on bosses on single target and hitting a hotkey every 15 seconds. Make threat matter and make it real and able to be manipulated. Make mitigation more active. Provide a means to differentiate between good and bad tanks.

In regards to Healing:

Swap Rushed Ceremony and Blessing of Protection: Add this to Blessing of Protection:
Heals you for an additional 30% and let the Mending passive and rituals take care of the rest.

By the way, this helps PVP alot, too. A NB swapping to a resto staff blasting himself with Rushed Ceremony when he gets low addresses a lot of the issues that exist for sorcs and NB's right now. Nobody wants binary gameplay.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · November 2014

Gorthax wrote: »

I seriously hate when people say DK dont have ranged abilities.....you have stone fist! Boom! THERE is a range ability >_>

have you ever looked at the range? sure you can call it that but... 10m really. seeing that many point blank moves are 8m the extra 2 is hardly range, even if you take the morph that adds range, its still half the range of most ranged abilities.

eliisra · November 2014

What are we talking about here though? I think it's sort of relevant to mention ones perspective when talking about class buffs and nerfs.

Is this about 1v1, large scale PvP, solo'ing or endgame PvE, for example?

Like reading this: "templar is pretty balanced" is sort of like someone taking a dump in your face, if you're into endgame PvE. Current top guilds- and groups running timed trials, aren't even using one single templar lol. At least on EU.

While a 1v1 niche dueller, probably agrees, that templars are in a good spot. Especially if that dueller happens to be a DK, struggling with blazing stuff in mele range. He might even feel that templar could use a nerf beating.

Same can be said for all classes. Nightblade is god-mode in endgame PvE, but could use some skill-fixes in PvP.

Anyway, based on what I'm getting from OP, this thread is purely based on PvP. Considering that, I can agree on most of it.

Terror · November 2014

AsweetRoll wrote: »

Terror wrote: »

looks to me like this thread has the typical attitude of "I cant beat class A, nerf it, Buff class B (my class)." Love these threads.

Personally, I would like to see an armor or spell resistance buff for nightblades, Evasion is a joke, Mirage is alright.. but to rely on a miss chance or dodge chance is ignorant at best. Armor is solid physical damage mitigation, Spell resistance is solid spell damage mitigation. Every other class seems to have some sort of ability to assist in these areas, I'd like to see one for NB as well. (I do not play a nightblade, but something I've noticed.)

I do play a dragon knight, I would not be opposed to an 6 second cooldown on reflective scales, for the simple fact that it will be a complaint if we ever get real dueling in effect.

People complaining about snipe... just stop. Its not the only somewhat powerful attack in this game, and there are plenty ways to mitigate it. - Sure beats getting ambushed.

I play/played several classes and the things i've gone over are mainly what I have seen others talk about and some of my opinion. I think zos advertised ESO as a game where you can be effective with any weapon in any armor and they should hold true to that statement and balance the skills people cry nerfs about. If you don't agree with something particular I said feel free to try and change my mind or tell me about another skill you think needs balancing and I would edit it in.

I wasn't directing that at you. It just seems to happen in these types of threads. And I do agree each skill should be looked at from the aspect of every play type before being toyed with. I agree every play style should be viable, we know they can never be equal.

SRIBES · November 2014

eliisra wrote: »

What are we talking about here though? I think it's sort of relevant to mention ones perspective when talking about class buffs and nerfs.

Is this about 1v1, large scale PvP, solo'ing or endgame PvE, for example?

Like reading this: "templar is pretty balanced" is sort of like someone taking a dump in your face, if you're into endgame PvE. Current top guilds- and groups running timed trials, aren't even using one single templar lol. At least on EU.

While a 1v1 niche dueller, probably agrees, that templars are in a good spot. Especially if that dueller happens to be a DK, struggling with blazing stuff in mele range. He might even feel that templar could use a nerf beating.

Same can be said for all classes. Nightblade is god-mode in endgame PvE, but could use some skill-fixes in PvP.

Anyway, based on what I'm getting from OP, this thread is purely based on PvP. Considering that, I can agree on most of it.

I'm directing this thread at all around PvP; Dueling/1v1, Group PvP, 1vX, etc. I think it would be great to have a PvE discussion but I don't PvE enough to know the balance of it so I don't want to put my opinion in. I think of all things in PvP though player skill needs a buff but the things I mentioned in the thread are mostly things i've seen other threads about, my friends/guildiesbin game or on streams I watch discuss about and some of it is my opinion. Just an all around discussion on balancing in PvP.

Dyride · November 2014

*Disclosure: I play a Sorc.

I generally agree in concept with most of the points everyone has raised above.

For Nightblades:
I think the there could be a boost to the Shadow Barrier passive so you get increased armor spell resist+small health regen coming out of Shadow Cloak.
Really NBs just need the spell to work, amirite?

I think a nerf to Ambush would need to tread lightly, maybe only a 5% reduction (+25% damage). Probably not necessary though.

I like the idea for Path of Shadows speed buff to apply for a few seconds at least after leaving the path. I think it would make for a good strafing mechanic. Throw in a small dodge or miss chance on the path too. This would be great for NB tanks in PvE.

The other morph could have a stamina cost reduction mechanic. Less stamina needed for blocking, dodgerolling, and weapon abilities.

For Templars:
Mostly balanced, except the Global cooldowns need to be reduced by half at least.

I don't agree with PoL stacking, cause it would be so OP in PvP.

I like the idea of Dark flare procc'ing insta-cast. Solar barrage needs either a short duration or something like full power boost on first attack, half boost on 2nd attack before fading.

You could possibly reduce the heal from Breath of Life if you also boosted the synergy from being inside Restoring Light AoEs to balance.

I mostly don't like this idea, but it could be a necessary offset to reduce the power of off-heals if they got a needed bump in DPS.

For Dragon Knights:
Don't take away Scales against spell projectiles, you will take away my last challenge.

I could see a cost increase similar to Bolt Escape but not quite as severe. Then again, I can Bolt Escape 8+ times from full magicka without hitting a pot. Maybe +30% magicka cost if cast within 3 seconds.

Really, I just think some abilities are mis-labelled projectiles. I don't think Scales should reflect an Ultimate like Meteor or Soul Assault, but should still reflect the Overload light attacks.

I don't think it should affect a few other skills either, Cripple comes to mind.

tplink3r1 · November 2014

Blazing Shield does not increase its own strenght when theres enemies near you...

RinaldoGandolphi · November 2014

I think the answer is buffing the other classes and skills. Give back the sorcerer pre-Nerf bolt escape and that class is perfectly balanced.

Give templar a mana regen or spell cost reduction passive and remove the cool downs and they are good.

Fix the night made cloak so it only breaks from damage, damage over time, aoe, or magelight and they good. Cloak should not break any otherwise.