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Discussion: Templar's Dawn's Wrath Skill Line
Khivas_Carrick
✭✭✭✭✭
As done before with some form of great discussion effect, I am creating a thread to address (AGAIN DAMN IT @ZoS) just how bad Templar DPS capability is when it comes down to using this tree for such purposes. At the moment it's good for AoE and a caster using a Destro Staff, but it literally ends there, so let's try to fix that.
Actives:
They need work, a hell of a lot of work because for the most part this skill line is freaking terrible.
Sun Fire - Change the animation to travel faster, that's about it.
Reflective Light - Same as above, this ability has a purpose for a small bit of crowd control, which is ok. If anything I'd build in an ability for a small chance to immobilize an enemy.
Vampire's Bane - The DoT damage on this is almost kinda lame for the fact that it takes a morph to get a slightly higher amount on it. If anything I'd do one of two things, the first being to make the base damage of both the initial hit and the DoT higher, and not by some measly 2%, try more or less 15 to 20%. An alternative to that would be to have the skill do a small explosion at the end after the DoT duration ends, thus turning an enemy into a walking, burning bomb.
Backlash - Instant Cast may be debatable with this skill, but the one that isn't debatable in the slightest is how completely stupid and asinine it is to have it built so that only one Templar can use the move at a time, or else the move gets overridden by the next guy to cast the same Backlash/Morph right after the first guy. Who the *** designed that and said it was ok? That's like saying "This seat belt is loose in this car and comes off in even the slightest of crashes or fender benders. It's totally fine to send for production." What are you, General Motors? Get that *** out of here.
The only other way to make this ability not terrible is to make it so it does a small DoT while the move is charging up, which in fact I fail to see why it would be so bad to have both more than one able to be used at once AND the DoT (the DoT would NOT build towards the final boom of this ability, but would make it the bread and butter of the Dawn's Wrath DPS line), and really it's just...So much potential lost here.
Power Of The Light - It's fine if the prior issues are addressed.
Purifying Light - A puddle that is hard as all hell to stand in and barely heals. Yea, because that's smart. Note my bitter sarcasm here. If the Backlash issue is addressed then this move only needs one other thing to make it viable, which is to have the healing:
1) Be increased slightly.
2) Instantly heal everyone near it immediately, not just a small puddle to stand in. You guys have broken your game here with your own good intentions. Fix it, now, or risk losing yet more players for your already dwindling number of subs.
Solar Flare - Holy Flaming Mortar Fire Batman! This skill would be great if it actually worked like a support/DPS skill ought to! Your intention with the Templar class was to have it deal "massive damage" while "supporting their allies". You faceplanted hard with this one, real hard. You see, Solar Flare and by extension it's morphs seem to suffer from the issue that it works for everybody, i.e the weapon and spell power increase. This is bad because that means everybody can consume the buff immediately on their next light attack if they wanted to, which really makes things hard for the Templar and in turn the group because now they have to sit there and cast the same damn move and run out of Magicka faster than normal, even worse if you're not a Caster based Templar.
To that end, I propose the following changes:
1) Change the animation so it isn't a literal Holy Mortar Fire. Make it a Hadouken, or my personal favorite, GOUDOKEN- ahem, palm based energy blast.
2) Keep the cast time, but up the damage a little. It hits like a box of wet tissue paper thrown at a freight train when compared to other casted abilities of a similar nature.
3) The weapon and spell power bonus to people using it, make it a constant effect that lasts 10 seconds. That'd be very well and good and go a long way to making Templar's the Support DPS you wanted them to be.
Solar Barrage - Great for AoE DPS, terrible for everything else. Build in a tanking utility with this somehow, give Templar Tanks some love like you did with DK's and Burning Talons. Let this thing root people.
Dark Flare - Build in a proc to let it on chance be able to Instant Cast the same way Crystal Frags do. That's pretty much it because a healing debuff is pretty nice.
Eclipse - The fu- What? What is this? This ability has amazing potential except one little thing: It can be broken free from. It works only on spells (which is weak as hell when compared to Reflective Scale), and it has to be casted on a player, which means you have to aim and see them face to face to work, thus it's usefulness to defend against an enemy you don't readily seen is lost. This is just a bad ability through and through and nobody really uses this, at all, let alone the morphs.
Change it so it's casted on the caster, not a targeted attack for the base form of this skill so that it works similar to reflective scales. In fact, you might as well clone Reflective Scale because Reflective Scale is just downright OP as hell. In all seriousness, make it so it's casted on the user and not an enemy player, sort of defeats the purpose of a spell reflect.
Total Dark - Since the base form of this skill no longer targets other players, make it so the player that got hit by their own spell loses 10% of their damage from spells for 5 seconds. Bam, done, easy. Wonderful PvP move right there.
Unstable Core - This is where the ability becomes an attack, not a defense. In this morph you will not target an enemy player for them to reflect all single target spells back at them for 4 seconds, but they will also be suffering a magic DoT the entire time and the DoT will explode at the end of the attack. All of the numbers here will be extremely small mind you since the fact that their own attacks can also hurt them. Now to make this skill truly viable though, you need to do one, simple thing ZoS: Make it so it can't be undone by Break Free. This is not a CC, not a root, not a snare, none of that crap. Make it so the only way to remove the skill's effect is to get cleansed somehow. That. Simple.
And hire new Combat Team employees because your current ones suck if they think Eclipse as it is now is good.
Blinding Light - I think this is ok actually. Maybe make it last longer or something. I could see this easily as a good tank move or PvP skill, just need a tweak or two I think, like increasing the chance that it blinds a target surrounding you by 2% per second until it ends or some such.
Blinding Flashes - ...What? Blinding Light does this already, so does Blinding Flashes refresh the duration? Is that what I'm seeing here? If so, change this, it's sort of useless, sort of not, but all in all it can be better. Like make it so the first pulse of the ability stuns nearby enemies for a split second then pulsates for the usual effect.
Searing Light - Uh, not bad actually. This, this works, I think as is just fine.
Passive Skills:
These aren't terrible but they can gain great improvement from simple design changes, real simple ones.
Enduring Rays - Well, this isn't too too bad, on the right track, but a percentage for time based things is beyond messy and really silly. You end up making DoTs weaker due to duration issues and you also fail to get the full effect of time based things. For instance, 20% of 10 seconds is roughly 2 seconds, so it went from 10 to 12. Minor, but still convenient. This does not work so well for other skills, and thus you end up with things that resemble "Lasts for 4.2 Seconds". What? Are you not aware of how useless that is? For example by Purifying Light lasts 7.2 Seconds. What the hell is going to happen in that .2 second? If you don't know, I'll tell you; Not one damn thing. If you wanted to make this actually useful, do one of two things with Enduring Rays:
1) Flat increase to time, not a percentage. 1/2 Seconds per rank to all time based abilities.
2) Reduce the time on other things, such as DoTs and Cast Times by 20%. That would be beneficial to a magical skill line.
Prism - This is great, only one issue - It only works for Dawn's Wrath stuff, which is freaking terrible at the moment, and worse yet Dawn's Wrath Ultimates cost the most in the game. That's not even a joke, the cost of it is INSANE. But with further tweaks to the other passive skills I have in mind, it'll work out well.
Alternatively you could also change it so that it builds Ultimate every time a Dawn's Wrath ability deals damage, which would make the DoTs truly valuable.
Illuminate - This is a messy way to go about something very beneficial. Instead of making it so an attack attacking you suddenly has 500 more spell resist to go through to hurt you, just make it so that as long as one of your Dawn's Wrath abilities is in effect, you gain 500 Spell Resist as a flat, noticeable buff.
Restoring Spirit - Ah, the tricky one, the one passive that can make Templar's overpoweringly amazing or impossibly horrible. At the moment you have it set to the horrible setting, and many think a change to the better end is all but inevitable if you try to buff it even in the slightest.
I do not think this way.
There is an obvious way to make this skill viable and useful and it's not a flat reduction to skill and ulti costs. Make it do what the damn name actually implies, because "Restoring" means to actually give back, return something upon use, right now it'd be better called "Discounted Goods Spirit".
1) First option, make it actually do the thing where it restores stuff, in this case once every 5 Seconds for a Dawn's Wrath ability, you get 2% Max Magicka and Stamina back from casting it. This would also go a long way to helping Tanks out, especially those poor tanks, and even helping DPS Templars as well.
2) Second Option, have it increase Regeneration and Ultimate Production by 20% across the board. Possibly the more balanced option of the two options but nonetheless better than what it currently is now. As it stands this passive is a joke, mainly for one thing and one thing only....
The Ultimates - Dawn's Wrath has great ultimate skills, they hit like trucks, have amazing synergies, and hit for a pretty decent AoE. There's just one crippling problem: Other Ultimates do better things, some even do nearly the same thing as the Dawn's Wrath Ultimates, and do it cheaper.
To that end, I can only sit here and look at the development team and combat team in particular with worried and angry eyes, wondering "What the hell do you people smoke when you do your work? Are you pressured and held at gunpoint? Is that what it is?"
300 Ultimate. 300. That's insane. Nobody else has that, nobody. Sorcs make a close second with 200 and 250 and DK's a not too distant third with 200 on one of their Ultimates. Nightblades just laugh all the way to the bank on this one. The only suggestion I have for Dawn's Wrath Ultimate costs is to simply lower the cost of the Ultimate, because even with the current (and crappy) version of Restoring Spirit, you're still paying 288 Ultimate to use it.
I say reduce the cost to 250 before Restoring Spirit or possibly make it even 200. Just anything but 280-300, please.
Now that these are all posted, I'd like to again remind you that while I may be ranting a little with these, this is still a discussion, this still needs to be remain civil and we must talk with each other as or at least mostly as equals, or else nothing will get done.
Also tag as many @ZoS people as humanly possible. Let them know that nobody likes their current ideas and that they need to switch.
P.S, This here is the link to another discussion from over a month ago about the Aedric Spear line that I think still holds up for talking about today.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/131268/discussion-templar-part-1-aedric-spear?new=1
Actives:
They need work, a hell of a lot of work because for the most part this skill line is freaking terrible.
Sun Fire - Change the animation to travel faster, that's about it.
Reflective Light - Same as above, this ability has a purpose for a small bit of crowd control, which is ok. If anything I'd build in an ability for a small chance to immobilize an enemy.
Vampire's Bane - The DoT damage on this is almost kinda lame for the fact that it takes a morph to get a slightly higher amount on it. If anything I'd do one of two things, the first being to make the base damage of both the initial hit and the DoT higher, and not by some measly 2%, try more or less 15 to 20%. An alternative to that would be to have the skill do a small explosion at the end after the DoT duration ends, thus turning an enemy into a walking, burning bomb.
Backlash - Instant Cast may be debatable with this skill, but the one that isn't debatable in the slightest is how completely stupid and asinine it is to have it built so that only one Templar can use the move at a time, or else the move gets overridden by the next guy to cast the same Backlash/Morph right after the first guy. Who the *** designed that and said it was ok? That's like saying "This seat belt is loose in this car and comes off in even the slightest of crashes or fender benders. It's totally fine to send for production." What are you, General Motors? Get that *** out of here.
The only other way to make this ability not terrible is to make it so it does a small DoT while the move is charging up, which in fact I fail to see why it would be so bad to have both more than one able to be used at once AND the DoT (the DoT would NOT build towards the final boom of this ability, but would make it the bread and butter of the Dawn's Wrath DPS line), and really it's just...So much potential lost here.
Power Of The Light - It's fine if the prior issues are addressed.
Purifying Light - A puddle that is hard as all hell to stand in and barely heals. Yea, because that's smart. Note my bitter sarcasm here. If the Backlash issue is addressed then this move only needs one other thing to make it viable, which is to have the healing:
1) Be increased slightly.
2) Instantly heal everyone near it immediately, not just a small puddle to stand in. You guys have broken your game here with your own good intentions. Fix it, now, or risk losing yet more players for your already dwindling number of subs.
Solar Flare - Holy Flaming Mortar Fire Batman! This skill would be great if it actually worked like a support/DPS skill ought to! Your intention with the Templar class was to have it deal "massive damage" while "supporting their allies". You faceplanted hard with this one, real hard. You see, Solar Flare and by extension it's morphs seem to suffer from the issue that it works for everybody, i.e the weapon and spell power increase. This is bad because that means everybody can consume the buff immediately on their next light attack if they wanted to, which really makes things hard for the Templar and in turn the group because now they have to sit there and cast the same damn move and run out of Magicka faster than normal, even worse if you're not a Caster based Templar.
To that end, I propose the following changes:
1) Change the animation so it isn't a literal Holy Mortar Fire. Make it a Hadouken, or my personal favorite, GOUDOKEN- ahem, palm based energy blast.
2) Keep the cast time, but up the damage a little. It hits like a box of wet tissue paper thrown at a freight train when compared to other casted abilities of a similar nature.
3) The weapon and spell power bonus to people using it, make it a constant effect that lasts 10 seconds. That'd be very well and good and go a long way to making Templar's the Support DPS you wanted them to be.
Solar Barrage - Great for AoE DPS, terrible for everything else. Build in a tanking utility with this somehow, give Templar Tanks some love like you did with DK's and Burning Talons. Let this thing root people.
Dark Flare - Build in a proc to let it on chance be able to Instant Cast the same way Crystal Frags do. That's pretty much it because a healing debuff is pretty nice.
Eclipse - The fu- What? What is this? This ability has amazing potential except one little thing: It can be broken free from. It works only on spells (which is weak as hell when compared to Reflective Scale), and it has to be casted on a player, which means you have to aim and see them face to face to work, thus it's usefulness to defend against an enemy you don't readily seen is lost. This is just a bad ability through and through and nobody really uses this, at all, let alone the morphs.
Change it so it's casted on the caster, not a targeted attack for the base form of this skill so that it works similar to reflective scales. In fact, you might as well clone Reflective Scale because Reflective Scale is just downright OP as hell. In all seriousness, make it so it's casted on the user and not an enemy player, sort of defeats the purpose of a spell reflect.
Total Dark - Since the base form of this skill no longer targets other players, make it so the player that got hit by their own spell loses 10% of their damage from spells for 5 seconds. Bam, done, easy. Wonderful PvP move right there.
Unstable Core - This is where the ability becomes an attack, not a defense. In this morph you will not target an enemy player for them to reflect all single target spells back at them for 4 seconds, but they will also be suffering a magic DoT the entire time and the DoT will explode at the end of the attack. All of the numbers here will be extremely small mind you since the fact that their own attacks can also hurt them. Now to make this skill truly viable though, you need to do one, simple thing ZoS: Make it so it can't be undone by Break Free. This is not a CC, not a root, not a snare, none of that crap. Make it so the only way to remove the skill's effect is to get cleansed somehow. That. Simple.
And hire new Combat Team employees because your current ones suck if they think Eclipse as it is now is good.
Blinding Light - I think this is ok actually. Maybe make it last longer or something. I could see this easily as a good tank move or PvP skill, just need a tweak or two I think, like increasing the chance that it blinds a target surrounding you by 2% per second until it ends or some such.
Blinding Flashes - ...What? Blinding Light does this already, so does Blinding Flashes refresh the duration? Is that what I'm seeing here? If so, change this, it's sort of useless, sort of not, but all in all it can be better. Like make it so the first pulse of the ability stuns nearby enemies for a split second then pulsates for the usual effect.
Searing Light - Uh, not bad actually. This, this works, I think as is just fine.
Passive Skills:
These aren't terrible but they can gain great improvement from simple design changes, real simple ones.
Enduring Rays - Well, this isn't too too bad, on the right track, but a percentage for time based things is beyond messy and really silly. You end up making DoTs weaker due to duration issues and you also fail to get the full effect of time based things. For instance, 20% of 10 seconds is roughly 2 seconds, so it went from 10 to 12. Minor, but still convenient. This does not work so well for other skills, and thus you end up with things that resemble "Lasts for 4.2 Seconds". What? Are you not aware of how useless that is? For example by Purifying Light lasts 7.2 Seconds. What the hell is going to happen in that .2 second? If you don't know, I'll tell you; Not one damn thing. If you wanted to make this actually useful, do one of two things with Enduring Rays:
1) Flat increase to time, not a percentage. 1/2 Seconds per rank to all time based abilities.
2) Reduce the time on other things, such as DoTs and Cast Times by 20%. That would be beneficial to a magical skill line.
Prism - This is great, only one issue - It only works for Dawn's Wrath stuff, which is freaking terrible at the moment, and worse yet Dawn's Wrath Ultimates cost the most in the game. That's not even a joke, the cost of it is INSANE. But with further tweaks to the other passive skills I have in mind, it'll work out well.
Alternatively you could also change it so that it builds Ultimate every time a Dawn's Wrath ability deals damage, which would make the DoTs truly valuable.
Illuminate - This is a messy way to go about something very beneficial. Instead of making it so an attack attacking you suddenly has 500 more spell resist to go through to hurt you, just make it so that as long as one of your Dawn's Wrath abilities is in effect, you gain 500 Spell Resist as a flat, noticeable buff.
Restoring Spirit - Ah, the tricky one, the one passive that can make Templar's overpoweringly amazing or impossibly horrible. At the moment you have it set to the horrible setting, and many think a change to the better end is all but inevitable if you try to buff it even in the slightest.
I do not think this way.
There is an obvious way to make this skill viable and useful and it's not a flat reduction to skill and ulti costs. Make it do what the damn name actually implies, because "Restoring" means to actually give back, return something upon use, right now it'd be better called "Discounted Goods Spirit".
1) First option, make it actually do the thing where it restores stuff, in this case once every 5 Seconds for a Dawn's Wrath ability, you get 2% Max Magicka and Stamina back from casting it. This would also go a long way to helping Tanks out, especially those poor tanks, and even helping DPS Templars as well.
2) Second Option, have it increase Regeneration and Ultimate Production by 20% across the board. Possibly the more balanced option of the two options but nonetheless better than what it currently is now. As it stands this passive is a joke, mainly for one thing and one thing only....
The Ultimates - Dawn's Wrath has great ultimate skills, they hit like trucks, have amazing synergies, and hit for a pretty decent AoE. There's just one crippling problem: Other Ultimates do better things, some even do nearly the same thing as the Dawn's Wrath Ultimates, and do it cheaper.
To that end, I can only sit here and look at the development team and combat team in particular with worried and angry eyes, wondering "What the hell do you people smoke when you do your work? Are you pressured and held at gunpoint? Is that what it is?"
300 Ultimate. 300. That's insane. Nobody else has that, nobody. Sorcs make a close second with 200 and 250 and DK's a not too distant third with 200 on one of their Ultimates. Nightblades just laugh all the way to the bank on this one. The only suggestion I have for Dawn's Wrath Ultimate costs is to simply lower the cost of the Ultimate, because even with the current (and crappy) version of Restoring Spirit, you're still paying 288 Ultimate to use it.
I say reduce the cost to 250 before Restoring Spirit or possibly make it even 200. Just anything but 280-300, please.
Now that these are all posted, I'd like to again remind you that while I may be ranting a little with these, this is still a discussion, this still needs to be remain civil and we must talk with each other as or at least mostly as equals, or else nothing will get done.
Also tag as many @ZoS people as humanly possible. Let them know that nobody likes their current ideas and that they need to switch.
P.S, This here is the link to another discussion from over a month ago about the Aedric Spear line that I think still holds up for talking about today.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/131268/discussion-templar-part-1-aedric-spear?new=1
Bobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!
8
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Khivas_Carrick✭✭✭✭✭O_O
Pardon me, I forgot to pack a change of underwear because it's not everyday I see one of these.
In fact, I have literally never-
*faints*Bobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!3 -
Tailger✭✭✭Hey just wanted to say thanks for this and your other write-up on templar class skills. The only character I have in this game is a templar so its really interesting stuff to me.
Would love to see the dawns wrath line get some love, I rarely ever use skills from it.
0 -
Khivas_Carrick✭✭✭✭✭I use skills from it, but only ever so often in a manner that's very sparingly.
And you're welcome.Bobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!0 -
Sasky✭✭✭A bit of a different perspective. Trying to focus on improvements without making the skills OP.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Sun Fire - Change the animation to travel faster, that's about it.
Reflective Light - Same as above, this ability has a purpose for a small bit of crowd control, which is ok. If anything I'd build in an ability for a small chance to immobilize an enemy.
Vampire's Bane - The DoT damage on this is almost kinda lame for the fact that it takes a morph to get a slightly higher amount on it. If anything I'd do one of two things, the first being to make the base damage of both the initial hit and the DoT higher, and not by some measly 2%, try more or less 15 to 20%. An alternative to that would be to have the skill do a small explosion at the end after the DoT duration ends, thus turning an enemy into a walking, burning bomb.
Travel time is similar to crystal fragments, which actually hits like a truck, so could definitely use a speedup. For reflective light, an immobilize chance really wouldn't add much, and in AoE situations isn't great anyways. What would make it useful is fixing that it counts as a single-target spell for reflects. If cast through eclipse or onto reflective scales it's reflected. It's a 3-target spell, not a single-target.
Vampire's bane needs the DoT increased NOT the duration. Currently the increase is due to a longer duration which really doesn't help in DPS. Since you're giving up hitting 2 additional targets, it should do at least 50% more damage. Explosion at the end just mixes purpose -- it's single-target DPS and an explosion is superfluous.
Backlash is an odd support skill that might just need to be completely reworked. It looks like it's supposed to be a damage multiplier from a single utility, but ends up not working at all due to horrific cast time and rather low cap for the duration. Increasing the cast time a lot would make it OP, and the damage cap still depends on other players.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Backlash ...
Power Of The Light - It's fine if the prior issues are addressed.
Purifying Light - A puddle that is hard as all hell to stand in and barely heals. ...
2) Instantly heal everyone near it immediately, not just a small puddle to stand in. You guys have broken your game here with your own good intentions. Fix it, now, or risk losing yet more players for your already dwindling number of subs.
Perhaps just switch it to an instant-cast buff along the lines of
- Backlash: Enemy takes 5% more damage from all sources and 10% more from caster. Instant-cast, 10s duration.
- PotL: Keep weapon power increase
- Purifying Light: make it a HoT to allies within 5/10m of affected enemy while it's active. This works regardless actually. The issue with changing to an instant-heal is you change it from a HoT. Having it heal while active will help offset in-close players taking more damage.
The main issue is this ability is kinda in-between for what it tries to do. It tries to do a group buff and do damage and really fails at either one. Templars do have DoTs (albiet a bit underpowered DoTs) but really lack a skill to just cast while not needing to refresh DoTs. I think it should be that Backlash is made the group damage buff, with little to no damage but a % increase. Then solar flare should be the strong short-cast damage skill.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Solar Flare - ...
To that end, I propose the following changes:
1) Change the animation so it isn't a literal Holy Mortar Fire. Make it a Hadouken, or my personal favorite, GOUDOKEN- ahem, palm based energy blast.
2) Keep the cast time, but up the damage a little. It hits like a box of wet tissue paper thrown at a freight train when compared to other casted abilities of a similar nature.
3) The weapon and spell power bonus to people using it, make it a constant effect that lasts 10 seconds. That'd be very well and good and go a long way to making Templar's the Support DPS you wanted them to be.
So:
- reduce cast time to 0.3s max (and increase animation speed)
- reduce cost so can be spammed
- remove damage buff from base skill
It's always struck me as odd to have the morph completely change the nature of a skill. Currently it's used to buff a follow-up AoE attack (or get better ult) but the damage itself is minimal. Perhaps have this morph drop fully to instant-cast and make the follow-up damage a self-buff for whatever skill you use. Viable in ST and AoE both.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Solar Barrage - Great for AoE DPS, terrible for everything else. Build in a tanking utility with this somehow, give Templar Tanks some love like you did with DK's and Burning Talons. Let this thing root people.
If this is spammed, a heal debuff loses value since you'd just be refreshing. Perhaps add-in an execute if the heal debuff is up:Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Dark Flare - Build in a proc to let it on chance be able to Instant Cast the same way Crystal Frags do. That's pretty much it because a healing debuff is pretty nice.
- If target is affected by dark flare and below 20% health, deals double damage.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Eclipse - The fu- What? What is this? This ability has amazing potential except one little thing: It can be broken free from. It works only on spells (which is weak as hell when compared to Reflective Scale), and it has to be casted on a player, which means you have to aim and see them face to face to work, thus it's usefulness to defend against an enemy you don't readily seen is lost. This is just a bad ability through and through and nobody really uses this, at all, let alone the morphs.
Change it so it's casted on the caster, not a targeted attack for the base form of this skill so that it works similar to reflective scales. In fact, you might as well clone Reflective Scale because Reflective Scale is just downright OP as hell. In all seriousness, make it so it's casted on the user and not an enemy player, sort of defeats the purpose of a spell reflect.
Eclipse is a support version of reflective scales. Scales is intended for the one taking the damage. Eclipse lets you single out high-damage ranged targets and remove their damage from the group. It works great, except it can be CC-broken in PvP and doesn't work on bosses in PvE. Also, Reflective Scales is OP and should be nerfed a bit, not this brought up to a similar OP-clone.
- Make it removable by purge, but not CC. Also, no immunity since damage still gets through.
- Change both this and reflective scales so they only reflect/block part of the damage. (Negates 50% damage from projectiles and returns 70% of that to caster.)
- Have a cap of 1000 damage negated per attack (pre-block). All skills up to 2k damage would take full effect (almost all player attacks) but boss-based damage would spill over.
Can leave total dark and unstable core morph changes as-is.
Have you used it? Blinding light affects enemies so that with their next attack they have a miss chance. One skill. (Jabs all 4 will hit or miss together). They'll be off-balance but can keep attacking just fine. As such, the base and searing light are rather weak, especially when compared to DK cinder storm. Flashes re-applies so if you're being attacked repeatedly (as most enemies tend to do) they have a new chance to miss.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Blinding Light - I think this is ok actually. Maybe make it last longer or something. I could see this easily as a good tank move or PvP skill, just need a tweak or two I think, like increasing the chance that it blinds a target surrounding you by 2% per second until it ends or some such.
Blinding Flashes - ...What? Blinding Light does this already, so does Blinding Flashes refresh the duration? Is that what I'm seeing here? If so, change this, it's sort of useless, sort of not, but all in all it can be better. Like make it so the first pulse of the ability stuns nearby enemies for a split second then pulsates for the usual effect.
Searing Light - Uh, not bad actually. This, this works, I think as is just fine.
Switch blinding flashes to the base.
Make searing pulse damage on each hit
Not sure about flashes morph, but perhaps make it longer duration.
With suggested changes to backlash not being a store-up-damage, no longer negatively impacted. Just make sure all DoTs gain damage from at least 1 extra tick at level 1 and at least 2 extra ticks at level 2.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Passive Skills:
These aren't terrible but they can gain great improvement from simple design changes, real simple ones.
Enduring Rays ...
In-line with other ultimate-on-cast. Fine as-is for Prism. Would work even better with solar flare as a short-cast spammable skill. Nova is a separate issue.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Prism - This is great, only one issue - It only works for Dawn's Wrath stuff, which is freaking terrible at the moment, and worse yet Dawn's Wrath Ultimates cost the most in the game. That's not even a joke, the cost of it is INSANE. But with further tweaks to the other passive skills I have in mind, it'll work out well.
[/quote]
Already gain spell resistance as a flat buff in aedric spear. Should really just do away with this and get a damage passive. The DK one is good synergy for +% to fire damage. NBs get good synergy for +% max magicka (among others) for having skills slotted. Perhaps something along one of those lines.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Illuminate - This is a messy way to go about something very beneficial. Instead of making it so an attack attacking you suddenly has 500 more spell resist to go through to hurt you, just make it so that as long as one of your Dawn's Wrath abilities is in effect, you gain 500 Spell Resist as a flat, noticeable buff.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Restoring Spirit - Ah, the tricky one, the one passive that can make Templar's overpoweringly amazing or impossibly horrible.
...
1) First option, make it actually do the thing where it restores stuff, in this case once every 5 Seconds for a Dawn's Wrath ability, you get 2% Max Magicka and Stamina back from casting it. This would also go a long way to helping Tanks out, especially those poor tanks, and even helping DPS Templars as well.
That's around what it was in beta and was OP. Do revisit all skill costs, as a lot of the skills didn't have their cost reduced to compensate for the switch, but leave roughly as-is.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »2) Second Option, have it increase Regeneration and Ultimate Production by 20% across the board. Possibly the more balanced option of the two options but nonetheless better than what it currently is now. As it stands this passive is a joke, mainly for one thing and one thing only....
20% across the board is a bit crazy. Templars can already get outstanding stamina regen. Ultimate generation, especially with all the DoTs possible from the changes is already fast. The issue is the cost of nova, so just reduce nova's cost.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »The Ultimates - Dawn's Wrath has great ultimate skills, they hit like trucks, have amazing synergies, and hit for a pretty decent AoE. There's just one crippling problem: Other Ultimates do better things, some even do nearly the same thing as the Dawn's Wrath Ultimates, and do it cheaper.
...
300 Ultimate. 300. That's insane. Nobody else has that, nobody. Sorcs make a close second with 200 and 250 and DK's a not too distant third with 200 on one of their Ultimates. Nightblades just laugh all the way to the bank on this one. The only suggestion I have for Dawn's Wrath Ultimate costs is to simply lower the cost of the Ultimate, because even with the current (and crappy) version of Restoring Spirit, you're still paying 288 Ultimate to use it.
I say reduce the cost to 250 before Restoring Spirit or possibly make it even 200. Just anything but 280-300, please.
Yes, it's comprable to DK standard and should be 200-225 base ultimate. It ticks higher than standard, but has about half the duration. Veil of blades is 200 ultimate with same damage reduction, higher snare, slightly longer duration. It does less damage, but ticks twice as fast (for more ultimate gain).3 -
tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
✭http://www.esohead.com/skills/28738-blinding-flashes
5 meters range on this MUST be a joke.
this one should be a self-buff or have at least 12 meters range.
melee templars cant do anything but spam blazing shield in large scale pvp, that takes 0 skill and its not fun.
Edited by tplink3r1 on October 15, 2014 9:57PMVR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer0 -
Khivas_Carrick✭✭✭✭✭A bit of a different perspective. Trying to focus on improvements without making the skills OP.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Sun Fire - Change the animation to travel faster, that's about it.
Reflective Light - Same as above, this ability has a purpose for a small bit of crowd control, which is ok. If anything I'd build in an ability for a small chance to immobilize an enemy.
Vampire's Bane - The DoT damage on this is almost kinda lame for the fact that it takes a morph to get a slightly higher amount on it. If anything I'd do one of two things, the first being to make the base damage of both the initial hit and the DoT higher, and not by some measly 2%, try more or less 15 to 20%. An alternative to that would be to have the skill do a small explosion at the end after the DoT duration ends, thus turning an enemy into a walking, burning bomb.
Travel time is similar to crystal fragments, which actually hits like a truck, so could definitely use a speedup. For reflective light, an immobilize chance really wouldn't add much, and in AoE situations isn't great anyways. What would make it useful is fixing that it counts as a single-target spell for reflects. If cast through eclipse or onto reflective scales it's reflected. It's a 3-target spell, not a single-target.
I still stand by what I said as it does something more than what it currently does. if anything your suggestion makes Reflective Scale that much stronger, and while it's a 3-Target spell, the fireball only hits once, hence one hit is reflected back upon use. Also Crystal Fragments is casted with a chance to be instant, Sun Fire always is instant, so the reasoning as to why you want it sped up can be easily misconstrued. I want it faster so it compared to other magic and ranged skills such as Venom Arrow or even Staff Attacks.
Vampire's bane needs the DoT increased NOT the duration. Currently the increase is due to a longer duration which really doesn't help in DPS. Since you're giving up hitting 2 additional targets, it should do at least 50% more damage. Explosion at the end just mixes purpose -- it's single-target DPS and an explosion is superfluous.
You misread what I said quite a bit there and misunderstood the other half. I said an increase to the Damage portions, which means both the attack itself and the DoT. I didn't say crap about it's duration in the actual skill itself, I mentioned that in the passives. Also Vampire's Bane only hits one target, I don't know where you're getting your information from, but it's quite off base on that.
Oh and as for the explosion, that's an actual debuff in the game. Fiery Weapons and Fire Spells do that, and in this case the "explosion" would be a single target boom that ends when the spell's duration ends.
Backlash is an odd support skill that might just need to be completely reworked. It looks like it's supposed to be a damage multiplier from a single utility, but ends up not working at all due to horrific cast time and rather low cap for the duration. Increasing the cast time a lot would make it OP, and the damage cap still depends on other players.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Backlash ...
Power Of The Light - It's fine if the prior issues are addressed.
Purifying Light - A puddle that is hard as all hell to stand in and barely heals. ...
2) Instantly heal everyone near it immediately, not just a small puddle to stand in. You guys have broken your game here with your own good intentions. Fix it, now, or risk losing yet more players for your already dwindling number of subs.
Perhaps just switch it to an instant-cast buff along the lines of
- Backlash: Enemy takes 5% more damage from all sources and 10% more from caster. Instant-cast, 10s duration.
- PotL: Keep weapon power increase
- Purifying Light: make it a HoT to allies within 5/10m of affected enemy while it's active. This works regardless actually. The issue with changing to an instant-heal is you change it from a HoT. Having it heal while active will help offset in-close players taking more damage.
Backlash only soaks up damage from you, the only one casting it. It's made worse when two people try to cast it because the first one to cast it loses out when the second one casting overrides the first. That said, your suggestions actually aren't bad at all, and I might even like the second option more. However a HoT that heals strongly while it's in effect, while also making the enemy take more damage runs a large risk of becoming very overpowering, allowing for bad situations in PvP. This is why I preferred the burst form of it, which only comes in one boom and that's it, you'll have to wait again for another.
If anything, your option for Backlash isn't bad, but I would lower it to 5% for everybody and make it a fast burning DoT that deals damage every .5 Seconds.
The main issue is this ability is kinda in-between for what it tries to do. It tries to do a group buff and do damage and really fails at either one. Templars do have DoTs (albiet a bit underpowered DoTs) but really lack a skill to just cast while not needing to refresh DoTs. I think it should be that Backlash is made the group damage buff, with little to no damage but a % increase. Then solar flare should be the strong short-cast damage skill.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Solar Flare - ...
To that end, I propose the following changes:
1) Change the animation so it isn't a literal Holy Mortar Fire. Make it a Hadouken, or my personal favorite, GOUDOKEN- ahem, palm based energy blast.
2) Keep the cast time, but up the damage a little. It hits like a box of wet tissue paper thrown at a freight train when compared to other casted abilities of a similar nature.
3) The weapon and spell power bonus to people using it, make it a constant effect that lasts 10 seconds. That'd be very well and good and go a long way to making Templar's the Support DPS you wanted them to be.
So:
- reduce cast time to 0.3s max (and increase animation speed)
- reduce cost so can be spammed
- remove damage buff from base skill
.3 Seconds? Dude that's insane, you'll see people spamming this and only this with light armor on in PvP all day err'day destroying people left and right. Even Crystal Fragments can't get that kind of big badda boom and that skill is borderline nuts as is. No, I can't really see that being a good idea, no way, no how.
It's always struck me as odd to have the morph completely change the nature of a skill. Currently it's used to buff a follow-up AoE attack (or get better ult) but the damage itself is minimal. Perhaps have this morph drop fully to instant-cast and make the follow-up damage a self-buff for whatever skill you use. Viable in ST and AoE both.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Solar Barrage - Great for AoE DPS, terrible for everything else. Build in a tanking utility with this somehow, give Templar Tanks some love like you did with DK's and Burning Talons. Let this thing root people.
Ehh, I'd rather see this fulfill a Tank's needs or become a powerful PvP skill instead of a mini-impulse spam as it is now.
If this is spammed, a heal debuff loses value since you'd just be refreshing. Perhaps add-in an execute if the heal debuff is up:Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Dark Flare - Build in a proc to let it on chance be able to Instant Cast the same way Crystal Frags do. That's pretty much it because a healing debuff is pretty nice.
- If target is affected by dark flare and below 20% health, deals double damage.
That's not too bad but as it stands now if this move was Instant Cast proc-able, and had a heal debuff AND an execute baked in, I can't begin to tell you the amount of hell these forums would see from people getting their *** kicked in by Templars. Hell I'd probably be among them and I'm a Templar. Healing Debuff and a chance to shoot this again quickly is more than enough, especially when as a a full on HP/Stam Character, mine hits for 550-650 Damage. Imagine a full magicka character shooting this thing in full Light Armor and other buffs running. Some guy blasts you with Focused Aim from stealth then shoots you with the fireball, then gets the instant cast proc? Done, DONE SON, #GAWT.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Eclipse - The fu- What? What is this? This ability has amazing potential except one little thing: It can be broken free from. It works only on spells (which is weak as hell when compared to Reflective Scale), and it has to be casted on a player, which means you have to aim and see them face to face to work, thus it's usefulness to defend against an enemy you don't readily seen is lost. This is just a bad ability through and through and nobody really uses this, at all, let alone the morphs.
Change it so it's casted on the caster, not a targeted attack for the base form of this skill so that it works similar to reflective scales. In fact, you might as well clone Reflective Scale because Reflective Scale is just downright OP as hell. In all seriousness, make it so it's casted on the user and not an enemy player, sort of defeats the purpose of a spell reflect.
Eclipse is a support version of reflective scales. Scales is intended for the one taking the damage. Eclipse lets you single out high-damage ranged targets and remove their damage from the group. It works great, except it can be CC-broken in PvP and doesn't work on bosses in PvE. Also, Reflective Scales is OP and should be nerfed a bit, not this brought up to a similar OP-clone.
- Make it removable by purge, but not CC. Also, no immunity since damage still gets through.
- Change both this and reflective scales so they only reflect/block part of the damage. (Negates 50% damage from projectiles and returns 70% of that to caster.)
- Have a cap of 1000 damage negated per attack (pre-block). All skills up to 2k damage would take full effect (almost all player attacks) but boss-based damage would spill over.
Can leave total dark and unstable core morph changes as-is.
Heh, this one I'll roll with you on it.
Have you used it? Blinding light affects enemies so that with their next attack they have a miss chance. One skill. (Jabs all 4 will hit or miss together). They'll be off-balance but can keep attacking just fine. As such, the base and searing light are rather weak, especially when compared to DK cinder storm. Flashes re-applies so if you're being attacked repeatedly (as most enemies tend to do) they have a new chance to miss.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Blinding Light - I think this is ok actually. Maybe make it last longer or something. I could see this easily as a good tank move or PvP skill, just need a tweak or two I think, like increasing the chance that it blinds a target surrounding you by 2% per second until it ends or some such.
Blinding Flashes - ...What? Blinding Light does this already, so does Blinding Flashes refresh the duration? Is that what I'm seeing here? If so, change this, it's sort of useless, sort of not, but all in all it can be better. Like make it so the first pulse of the ability stuns nearby enemies for a split second then pulsates for the usual effect.
Searing Light - Uh, not bad actually. This, this works, I think as is just fine.
Switch blinding flashes to the base.
Make searing pulse damage on each hit
Not sure about flashes morph, but perhaps make it longer duration.
High chance on Flashes, other then that this isn't a terrible suggestion either.
With suggested changes to backlash not being a store-up-damage, no longer negatively impacted. Just make sure all DoTs gain damage from at least 1 extra tick at level 1 and at least 2 extra ticks at level 2.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Passive Skills:
These aren't terrible but they can gain great improvement from simple design changes, real simple ones.
Enduring Rays ...
In-line with other ultimate-on-cast. Fine as-is for Prism. Would work even better with solar flare as a short-cast spammable skill. Nova is a separate issue.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Prism - This is great, only one issue - It only works for Dawn's Wrath stuff, which is freaking terrible at the moment, and worse yet Dawn's Wrath Ultimates cost the most in the game. That's not even a joke, the cost of it is INSANE. But with further tweaks to the other passive skills I have in mind, it'll work out well.
Like I said, works well, but our ultimates for Dawn's Wrath cost an arm and a leg. Both Anakin Skywalker and Edward Elric are kind of running low on those.
Already gain spell resistance as a flat buff in aedric spear. Should really just do away with this and get a damage passive. The DK one is good synergy for +% to fire damage. NBs get good synergy for +% max magicka (among others) for having skills slotted. Perhaps something along one of those lines.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Illuminate - This is a messy way to go about something very beneficial. Instead of making it so an attack attacking you suddenly has 500 more spell resist to go through to hurt you, just make it so that as long as one of your Dawn's Wrath abilities is in effect, you gain 500 Spell Resist as a flat, noticeable buff.
You gain very little, and this change goes along with my other changes to that skill line that I've discussed. You could also of course do something for Templars to increase Spell Damage by a percentage since Balanced Warrior already does Weapon Damage, but in my rewrite of the Aedric Spear line, you already get a buff to both weapon and spell damage. An idea you just gave me however would be to have it so that it when you have a Dawn's Wrath Ability active, you're magicka skills cost 2/4% less to use, essentially taking Restoring Spirit's old effect and placing it here.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Restoring Spirit - Ah, the tricky one, the one passive that can make Templar's overpoweringly amazing or impossibly horrible.
...
1) First option, make it actually do the thing where it restores stuff, in this case once every 5 Seconds for a Dawn's Wrath ability, you get 2% Max Magicka and Stamina back from casting it. This would also go a long way to helping Tanks out, especially those poor tanks, and even helping DPS Templars as well.
That's around what it was in beta and was OP. Do revisit all skill costs, as a lot of the skills didn't have their cost reduced to compensate for the switch, but leave roughly as-is.
You could do that, but that's something that should be done anyway. More to the point, the thing in Beta didn't have a CD, it proced ALL the time. That's what made it OP and it felt like you never ran out of resources. In this one, 5 seconds is a long time and you can burn a good bit in 5 seconds, and if that really isn't enough, then make it every 10 seconds this goes off.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »2) Second Option, have it increase Regeneration and Ultimate Production by 20% across the board. Possibly the more balanced option of the two options but nonetheless better than what it currently is now. As it stands this passive is a joke, mainly for one thing and one thing only....
20% across the board is a bit crazy. Templars can already get outstanding stamina regen. Ultimate generation, especially with all the DoTs possible from the changes is already fast. The issue is the cost of nova, so just reduce nova's cost.
Other than a skill from Restoring Light, Templar's do not have amazing stamina regeneration, trust me on that one. I'll agree that 20% is too much, but 10% sounds about right and frankly removing a skill that you had to place on your bar in order to actually do more stuff will go a hell of a long way in making Templar DPS, Heals, and Tanking better.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »The Ultimates - Dawn's Wrath has great ultimate skills, they hit like trucks, have amazing synergies, and hit for a pretty decent AoE. There's just one crippling problem: Other Ultimates do better things, some even do nearly the same thing as the Dawn's Wrath Ultimates, and do it cheaper.
...
300 Ultimate. 300. That's insane. Nobody else has that, nobody. Sorcs make a close second with 200 and 250 and DK's a not too distant third with 200 on one of their Ultimates. Nightblades just laugh all the way to the bank on this one. The only suggestion I have for Dawn's Wrath Ultimate costs is to simply lower the cost of the Ultimate, because even with the current (and crappy) version of Restoring Spirit, you're still paying 288 Ultimate to use it.
I say reduce the cost to 250 before Restoring Spirit or possibly make it even 200. Just anything but 280-300, please.
Yes, it's comprable to DK standard and should be 200-225 base ultimate. It ticks higher than standard, but has about half the duration. Veil of blades is 200 ultimate with same damage reduction, higher snare, slightly longer duration. It does less damage, but ticks twice as fast (for more ultimate gain).[/quote]
Yea on this one you see me, which is good because this is a pretty basic and easy to see thing. Dawn's Wrath Ultimates simply put cost more buck than the bang they produce, so either give us a bigger bang or reduce the buck we need to pay.
Everything else is already in the quoted sections, my responses that is.Bobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!1 -
Sasky✭✭✭Reflective Light: Meant that in live it currently it acts like a single spell and is reflected if cast through eclipse. It's a 3 target spell, where eclipse reads it reflects single-target attacks. Guess reflective scales should still apply to the one projectile that hits the DK.
Vampires Bane: Mostly against current state (where it just extends the DoT). Guess I misread what you meant by explosion when finishes, thinking it meant AoE damage like unstable core does on end.
Backlash: I was intending the damage buff to flat-out replace the stored-up damage. That's a bit like what the skill does currently, and would be similar to engulfing flames' fire damage debuff. For the HoT amount, I'm thinking probably along the lines of the heal you get from extended ritual on a very small radius so you have to be right on top of the enemy to receive it.
Solar & Dark Flare: I was thinking along the lines of the DK whip for a instant-cast decent damage skill. DK base is lower, so guess would have to drop damage to keep that inline. While it may hit currently hard, you lose out on light attack weaving which is an additional 200+ damage per missed light attack. Really aren't any decent instant-cast damage skills in the templar currently and flare imo is the best candidate can convert to that. (PS: Focused aim is being switched to only affect bow abilities.)
Flashes: Actually a decent tanking utility atm. Perhaps have the non-damage morph do some sort of CC on initial cast to increase tank utility. (Closest skill to this is cinder storm which has large snare, %miss, and either DoT or disorient on cast).
Illuminate: I just feel 2 class passives for spell resist is a bit much. Can't think of other duplicates. I think +% to either max magicka or magicka regen for each dawn's wrath slotted is way to go for this.
Restoring Spirit: Yeah, it's a tricky one. The issue with pushing too much into regen or reduction is how it affects non-class skills. I think it'd be enough to just re-visit skill costs and reduce them across the board. As far as stamina regen, was referring to that stat itself. With only one set bonus and a racial for +sp regen, I can cast that to put my regen at softcap. Only NB with siphoning strikes have better stamina back within non-ultimate skills.0 -
Soris✭✭✭✭✭
✭bah i need a new mause now
good points tho, and nice to see it passed to gameplay team instantlyWelkynd [Templar/AD/EU]0 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Making eclipse unbreakable would be OP, even more OP as reflecting scales, because you lock down a caster completely, instead of just unable to attack the ones using scales with projectiles. Nevertheless, it being breakable makes it worthless. Hard to fix this one.
Also, I 100% agree ln the backlash thing. FOR GODS SAKE ZOS, let multiple templars use this skill al the same time. This is a highly stupid and clunky mechanic atm.
1 -
Jacques Berge✭✭✭✭Letting a group of Templars all cast backlash would be insane. Would backlash #2 store the damage from back last #1. This would kill the crap out of bosses... Now, imagine a trials boss has 12 backlashes on him... 1st one goes off and boom!!! Sets of all 11 after wards, all at the same time. I'd bet money that your game crashes."Shadow hide you"
Jacques Berge - v14 NB - DC1 -
JLB✭✭✭✭@Khivas_Carrick
Very nice post. Pretty much echoes many of the best suggestions that have been thrown in the Templar Developer Discussion & Templar's related posts for the past 4-5 months, and then some new interesting stuff. Good job.
@ZOS: print it and stick it on the screen, you have pretty much everything you need to fix Templars right there in 1 single post.2 -
KenjiJU✭✭✭I've never picked up Backlash or Eclipse. I hadn't thought about how well they might work in a group setting, but for my playstyle, they just never seemed attractive at all. They seem too specific. I'd rather have something I can use on a broader scale and keep on my bar than feeling like it's something I should be switching out constantly.0 -
BugCollector✭✭✭✭ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Thank you for the very detailed post, @Khivas_Carrick. Passed along a link to the Gameplay team.
Not that I'm whining or anything. Well, I actually am whining, but these kind of posts have been done a thousand times over by me and others.
Now let me sum up the most important aspects the OP posted:
1. Faster flying Sun Fire, Reflective Light, Vampire's Bane
2. Dark Flare ability to be instant casted like Crystal Fragments
3. Lowered Nova ulti cost to 200
4. He didn't mention this but.... Magicka management!
Thx for reading
May knowledge guide you to enlightenment0 -
Khivas_Carrick✭✭✭✭✭Making eclipse unbreakable would be OP, even more OP as reflecting scales, because you lock down a caster completely, instead of just unable to attack the ones using scales with projectiles. Nevertheless, it being breakable makes it worthless. Hard to fix this one.
Also, I 100% agree ln the backlash thing. FOR GODS SAKE ZOS, let multiple templars use this skill al the same time. This is a highly stupid and clunky mechanic atm.
No no, I don't want Eclipse to be unable to completely be removed, just no use of Break Free. Purges and Purifies and things of that nature will work just fine and if anything put an increased worth on those skills, thus making the players who use them bigger targets, changing the battlefield/strats, etc.Jacques Berge wrote: »Letting a group of Templars all cast backlash would be insane. Would backlash #2 store the damage from back last #1. This would kill the crap out of bosses... Now, imagine a trials boss has 12 backlashes on him... 1st one goes off and boom!!! Sets of all 11 after wards, all at the same time. I'd bet money that your game crashes.
If I recall correctly, and I'm hoping I do here, Backlash and it's morphs only take the damage you do, nothing else. I say this because from reading my meters during boss battles I see that I'll cast a Backlash on a boss but be forced to run away (I'm melee), leaving only my DoTs, which are either Vampire's Bane/Blazing Spear or VB/Carve up on the boss, but my often times ranged friend and guildie (I tend to run with the same people) and more often than not super-meat-shield tank on the boss, and the damage does not go up on Backlash at all.
If what you think was true, then Backlash would always be maxed out and I'd never actually have to worry about hitting a single damn thing because the tank alone could do what I need done.
Other words, it'd be the perfect "Carry me!" button.BugCollector wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Thank you for the very detailed post, @Khivas_Carrick. Passed along a link to the Gameplay team.
Not that I'm whining or anything. Well, I actually am whining, but these kind of posts have been done a thousand times over by me and others.
Now let me sum up the most important aspects the OP posted:
1. Faster flying Sun Fire, Reflective Light, Vampire's Bane
2. Dark Flare ability to be instant casted like Crystal Fragments
3. Lowered Nova ulti cost to 200
4. He didn't mention this but.... Magicka management!
Thx for reading
Yea I did, well sort of. I mentioned more or less a solution that should allude to the fact that Templar's have the absolute worst freaking Magicka Management around. I think Sorcs and DKs are a close second in that regard, keyword there is think though, can never be too sure.Bobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!0 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Backlash can only do 1400 ot 1500 at max, per cast, over a duration of about 8,5 seconds (cast time included). So it will never be OP. That would be like 175 dps per cast backlash. Its not like the damage stacks endlessly, like you imply. And even without backlash#2 storing dmg from #1, it will easily cap the damage from other dps done by group mates at this moment.Jacques Berge wrote: »Letting a group of Templars all cast backlash would be insane. Would backlash #2 store the damage from back last #1. This would kill the crap out of bosses... Now, imagine a trials boss has 12 backlashes on him... 1st one goes off and boom!!! Sets of all 11 after wards, all at the same time. I'd bet money that your game crashes.
Right now, many templars cannot utilize their build completely, because they constantly have to wait for their turn to cast backlash and many simultaneous casts will happen. And what if a healer wants to use the purifying light morph, while dps wants to use power of the light morph? They should be able to coexist. This is just gimping templars atm.
Oh yea @Khivas_Carrick , Making eclipse only able to be removed by a purge would be OP. It lasts for a good 7 sec, plus it is not THAT expensive. In a duel with a sorc for example you would be able to completely lock him down, AND be able to sustain it... If it would be like that, it either needs to have a shorter duration and/or a higher cost.
Also, funny that you say blinding flashes is useless and searing light is okay... Blinding flashes is awsome in PvP, where you can run into groups and everyone ia affected by it, because every 2 seconds it reaplies the effect. Blinding light only applies it once and that is for 1 attack, and remember its a 50% chance. No, blinding flashes is awsome. Its actually searing light that is useless. Its basically the same as unmorphed, but then with a really lackluster damage effect.
Edited by Koensol on October 16, 2014 3:00PM0 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭the heal debuff of darkflare needs to be investigated as it only debuffs for ~3sec in pvp opposed to the 6sec the tooltip states... pve cant betested at all thx to api restrictions.
piercing javelin even though its not a dawns skill needs to be adressed as well, its the templars range cc skill but thx to its low range wich makes it uneffected by the pvp range extension it becomes nearly useless.(cant remember the last time i´ve seen one in use...)
it does 1/5th of the dmg of crystal shards but thx to its horrible range its not that usefull at all. so either increase its dmg to reasonable values(200-300% increasement) or extend its range to match minimum values for the pvp range extension to kick in. it would still have the lowest range of all range abilities but it would not been that harsh difference it has now.
spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
Khivas_Carrick✭✭✭✭✭I can be swayed on Flashes simply since I'm not entirely versed in it's use. Eclipse on the other hand pretty much acts as a Templars single target talon spam. Only that it isn't a root and once you pop out of it out can't be used on you again, whereas everything else in this game can be.
It's great as is for PvE, but I fall to see why everyone loves it for PvP when instead of messing up a caster it just makes it that harder to control then once they simply break free.
My idea is to let multiple magical skills remove it, of which those can be spammed if need be and will let eclipse retain it's PvE effectiveness PvP.
And imho the javelin skills should get a minor rework, of which I addressed in another topicBobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!0 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Khivas_Carrick wrote: »I can be swayed on Flashes simply since I'm not entirely versed in it's use. Eclipse on the other hand pretty much acts as a Templars single target talon spam. Only that it isn't a root and once you pop out of it out can't be used on you again, whereas everything else in this game can be.
It's great as is for PvE, but I fall to see why everyone loves it for PvP when instead of messing up a caster it just makes it that harder to control then once they simply break free.
our talon spam pendant is blazing spear/luminous shard as its as talons does not create cc imunity and deals compareable dmg. but only affects one target with its cc and thus thx to the mortar style animation needs servere targetting skills.
beside that i do agree eclipse needs to be taken off the cc line its a cheap way to not make it effect bossmobs but crippling it entirly in pvp for no other reason than sparing coding time.
blinding flashes is awesome - it affects up to 18 players (6 on each of its 3 flashes) one target can be affected multiple times if it breaks free and is unlucky with fumbling twice or thrice(? does that word exist in english?).
spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
Pmarsico9✭✭✭✭Amazing, you got a response!
Backlash blows guys. Make it a high damage DoT effect baseline. It is then dispellable and a non-factor in PVP but addresses Templar sustained ranged caster DPS.
Make one morph allow the DoT ticks to proc a buff on the Templar that makes the Temp's next ability Auto Crit and make the DoT insta-cast.
The second morph should be power of the light because that's actually not bad in PVP.
Purifying light is trash, just dump it.
Dark Flare needs a chance to proc instant cast and higher damage on any Dawn's Wrath DoT. So now the class has two interesting procs to watch for Single target from the Backlash DoT and the instant cast Dark Flares. With the ultimate goal being to have weapon attacks be higher DPS than Dark Flare without the instant cast proc and Vamp Bane/Reflective Light and Dark Flare to be relatively even with just the damage buff from the Backlash DoT proc.
Solar Barrage is a solid tanking move to bolster Tank DPS. However, it should also have another effect that is more defensive in nature. I don't know about the root, because I think that should go in Spear Shards or maybe the other Blinding Flashes morph. This should probably provide something like +Healing received per enemy hit or something that jives very well with tanking.
Blinding Flashes needs a range increase. The other morph needs something. It's completely unappealing.
Eclipse needs dragged around back and shot. It's worthless. Absorb Magic is so much more useful, when this spell should at least be worth leveling.
As such, I recommend getting creative there and replacing the idea entirely with something more geared for an involving and interesting Templar Damage delivery system, or perhaps the AoE crowd control that Templar tanks need.
Well done @Khivas_Carrick
I posted a lot of these myself and am very glad you finally got a response!0 -
Khivas_Carrick✭✭✭✭✭To be honest, I think a lot of these are looked at by the Devs but only a few actually get attention based on the level of detail involved with each. Now if only the Devs would look at the Heavy Armor and Two-Handed skill line threads me and another have made.
Which reminds me I need to go post on the PTS forums because the buffs to 2H are rather abysmal and borderline insulting.Bobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!1 -
BugCollector✭✭✭✭Dark Flare needs a chance to proc instant cast and higher damage on any Dawn's Wrath DoT. So now the class has two interesting procs to watch for Single target from the Backlash DoT and the instant cast Dark Flares. With the ultimate goal being to have weapon attacks be higher DPS than Dark Flare without the instant cast proc and Vamp Bane/Reflective Light and Dark Flare to be relatively even with just the damage buff from the Backlash DoT proc.
Dark Flare just needs to be adjusted, so Templars have a (semi) nuke attack.--> Faster flying speed and chance to instant cast. that's enough really.
The faster flying speed is equally important as the proc chance, because as it is now, it's too easy to dodge.
May knowledge guide you to enlightenment0 -
Pmarsico9✭✭✭✭BugCollector wrote: »Dark Flare needs a chance to proc instant cast and higher damage on any Dawn's Wrath DoT. So now the class has two interesting procs to watch for Single target from the Backlash DoT and the instant cast Dark Flares. With the ultimate goal being to have weapon attacks be higher DPS than Dark Flare without the instant cast proc and Vamp Bane/Reflective Light and Dark Flare to be relatively even with just the damage buff from the Backlash DoT proc.
Dark Flare just needs to be adjusted, so Templars have a (semi) nuke attack.--> Faster flying speed and chance to instant cast. that's enough really.
The faster flying speed is equally important as the proc chance, because as it is now, it's too easy to dodge.
The damage is sub par at the moment, too. It really depends on if there's something providing sustained DPS without Magicka issues while you get the procs.
Assuming they go that route with having procs.0 -
JLB✭✭✭✭I don't know about the proc. It's too Sorcererish in my opinion.
I'd rather just have the animation work faster and maybe lower the casting time a tiny bit.
With the 6s heal debuff & the increased power on the next attack both working properly, this skill would already be very potent without adding extra damage or proc chance.Edited by JLB on October 16, 2014 6:27PM0 -
Pmarsico9✭✭✭✭I don't know about the proc. It's too Sorcererish in my opinion.
I'd rather just have the animation work faster and maybe lower the casting time a tiny bit.
With the 6s heal debuff & the increased power on the next attack both working properly, this skill would already be very potent without adding extra damage or proc chance.
The bolded has been tested and it works on the next attack, not just the Templar's anybody's next attack. So it doesn't bolster the Templar's damage. It's really a crappy debuff anyway. If it was worth a crap, Templar's would be expected to spam Solar Barrage in the middle of a pack. But it's a bad debuff, it doesn't scale and it's too weak. There's better applications of the healing debuff already in game.
Procs are a staple of the genre and just because Sorcs are the only class with one in ESO doesn't mean that no other class should ever have procs. It's when your DPS metagame is entirely based on them (aka WoW's trinkets) and utilization of said procs is how you differentiate bad players from good that the game gets lame.
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booksmcread✭✭✭✭I agree with a lot of what has been said. I had posted a similar thread not too long ago, though apparently not in a visible enough place to garner any attention (or maybe it just sucked
). But yes, Dawn's Wrath needs a lot of attention. I'm not sure that it needs much in the way of buffs so much as tweaks to make it effective.
Sun Fire (+morphs): YES, much faster travel time! Vampire's Bane: An increase on initial damage would be most welcome.
Backlash: At the very least, both morphs should stack with one another. Also, Power of the Light needs a visual animation to the end. The suggestion of a small DoT is a good one.
Solar Flare: Agreed, improvements are really needed. An animation/cast time/travel time udpate is necessary. In theory, I like the animation of Solar Flare/Dark Flare. I feel like I'm launching little cruise missiles. But the animation and travel time really hurt this ability's effectiveness. And the ineffective buff hurts too. Would giving the Templar the buff on their character for 2.5-3 seconds be easier to implement? For Dark Flare please cut down on both animation and travel time or eliminate one. For Solar Barrage, adding in a tanking utility is a great idea. If not a root, maybe a snare to make it different than DKs Talons. But you are spot on with adding some tanking utility to this.
Eclipse: I don't use this spell in PVE because it can't be used on any mob of significance--I don't need to use it on simple landscape mobs. I don't use it in PVP because it can just be removed with ease. Maybe as suggested, classify it as a negative effect and not hard CC? But that has a chance to make it too strong in PVP. Maybe leave as is and make it do decent damage if it is removed via CC break or purge?
Blinding Light: I like this skill though I think it's radius really needs to be increased to 8m (same radius as Solar Barrage). Blinding Flashes should last longer, maybe 2 more seconds than it does now and Searing should have it's damage increased a tiny bit, but not too much OR, if the target is not affected by the CC, they take a little extra damage on expiration.
Nova: Agreed, I don't understand why it costs 300 ultimate. It is almost the same skill as Veil of Blades. But VoB costs 100 less ultimate. Why? Nova should be reduced by at least 50 ultimate if not less. How much kinda depends on what happens with Restoring Spirit.Edited by booksmcread on October 16, 2014 8:07PM1 -
JLB✭✭✭✭Don't make this post too long, or devs will just ignore it and forget it and will take 4+ months to answer on why no changes have been made on all the things every Templar seems to agree at some extent. Like you can see in the Templar Developer Discussion.
Sorry if I'm bitter, but had to say it because some of us have spent a lot of time to get to the same conclusions long time ago, posted suggestions, and have been plainly ignored for months.4 -
BugCollector✭✭✭✭Can we get a confirmation that these proposed changes will get implemented BEFORE Update 5?May knowledge guide you to enlightenment0
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Francescolg✭✭✭✭Has the 30% heal bonus while standing in puryfying ritual (and morphs) started working correctly for every player?
Did you mention this in your thread TE!? I wonder, because it would be SO important to fix that if it hasn't need done yet.1 -
Khivas_Carrick✭✭✭✭✭30% heal bonus?Bobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!0
