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Templars: Check the Class forums
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eserras7b16_ESO✭✭✭✭You may be a Trash Templar but I'm not
I can DPS in Trials, and there's Hybrid builds doing 1,1k+ DPS wich is more than enough. As both Hybrid DPS and Healer I don't have magicka management issues. Templar is Strong. Best Healer, Best Tank. Best support. Decent DPS.
Stop complaining.Eptackt - Argonian Templar
Belegrand - Redguard Nightblade6 -
Pmarsico9✭✭✭✭Ok, i am new to tanking. And i did a DK tank before.
Things like Dragonclaw and in Raids the tank ultimate make the DK to NR1.
I take the caltrops to gain initial aggro. That works.
Hel Rah first boss. I didn`t find a group yet, who wanted me to stand still in the -35% phase. I had to run.
All the DK`s? Just stand there and laugh without even bloking.
DD: Yes, there are Screenshots from Templars with 1,4k dps on first boss in AA. That is good, but boy you have to work it out...
I understand, that it is not easy to make enough dmg, like say... lava whip spam.
But it seems ungrateful to expect from ZOS to make us a perfect Tank, Healer and DD. Take 2 out of tree. Make the Tank work better.
Templars are already ahead of all other classes for heals. If ZoS gives them better magicka sustain, nothing will get in the way of templar healers for endgame PVE content.david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »Fix magicka management and Focused Charge, and I think Templars would be in a good place.
Seriously, just make Repentance return Magicka and Stamina rather than Health and Stamina (Templars already have lots of ways of restoring health; we don't need another!), and fix the self-imposed stunlock that is Focused Charge, and we'd be fine.
It was in June that ZoS said they had hear the message 'clear and loud' that the Templars needed help in the magicka management department. Nothing has been done since.
Yes, we need to be careful Templars are already powerful healers! If they are a little weaker in the other departments it might be okay cause they are such good healers. My templar is super survivable right now so idk what to say.
These work good in a vacuum, but the problem is that:
A) The tank role is entirely niche. There's plenty of bosses like the Spider engine at the end of Darkshade, where a tank's lack of DPS is more of a hindrance than a help. Moreover, I've personally done many bosses more easily simply having a DPS keep Inner Rage on their bars.
There's far more DPS slots available than tank or healing slots. Even in 12 mans, you run 1, maybe 2 healers tops, and no more than one pure tank.
C) Since there's no aggro table, tanking is about debuff maintenence, and as such, the role lacks depth in a major way. It also is why Crowd Control is preferred since it's impossible for a tank to do damage on par with DPS to hold mobs.
D) There is only one case of exclusive behavior in this game: It's Templars as healers. People clear trials and vet dungeons with other healers and other classes as tanks. But Templar DPS is so far behind that they straight up get excluded. This has personally happened to me many times.
E) Templars are the only class in the game with its only semi-viable DPS build being tied strictly to melee.0 -
eserras7b16_ESO✭✭✭✭Actually you can also have sustained DPS with a Bow, Stamina build and using magicka for Restoration aura. I've done it with blue gear, City of Ash or/and Hel-Ra. Using certain sets wich grant you Magicka management + Equilibrium you can also have decent sustained DPS with DestroStaff.
Look, Our DPS might be slightly worse than Nightblades or Dragonknights (200 DPS?). We lack Crowd Control + Some damage as Tank, but we get other benefits (Damage reduction, survavility). Our Healing is the best.
I've never seen DragonKnights healing and just 1 Nightblade friend wich does it as offspec. Templars are amazing, well balanced. While I agree there's work to be done, it's not gameBreaking at all.
If you ask me, Sorcerers need a rework right now. They've a real problem.
Eptackt - Argonian Templar
Belegrand - Redguard Nightblade3 -
Pmarsico9✭✭✭✭eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »Actually you can also have sustained DPS with a Bow, Stamina build and using magicka for Restoration aura. I've done it with blue gear, City of Ash or/and Hel-Ra. Using certain sets wich grant you Magicka management + Equilibrium you can also have decent sustained DPS with DestroStaff.
Look, Our DPS might be slightly worse than Nightblades or Dragonknights (200 DPS?). We lack Crowd Control + Some damage as Tank, but we get other benefits (Damage reduction, survavility). Our Healing is the best.
I've never seen DragonKnights healing and just 1 Nightblade friend wich does it as offspec. Templars are amazing, well balanced. While I agree there's work to be done, it's not gameBreaking at all.
If you ask me, Sorcerers need a rework right now. They've a real problem.
Dragonknights are awesome healers like Sorcs are great tanks. People don't play them, but I've cleared Veteran CoH with a DK healing.
Magicka based DPS still scales the best. It's that simple. And Templars don't have viable magicka based ranged caster DPS.
You are also greatly underplaying how far behind "slightly worse" is. "Slightly Worse" in this case is enough to encourage exclusive behavior from the player base.
Sorry, I've seen people other than Templars heals, they aren't even the best PVP healers (endless Magicka Sorcs and DKs say hi.) The class is niche. They are a support class when the game doesn't need them.0 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm sure some minor tweaks are needed to class skills for templars (they are needed for all classes), but I'm fairly certain the reason they fall a little short on dps is to compensate for their healing power. I don't think it would be very balanced with other classes to have templars putting out same dps as them and have the awesome healing power at their disposal.
Having played a templar, the class is at a pretty good spot for getting through all the content with no problem solo and can hang well in pvp. Sure, they have to be played a bit differently in some cases - which might be where some run into problems, but they are far from broken.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC0 -
Pmarsico9✭✭✭✭I'm sure some minor tweaks are needed to class skills for templars (they are needed for all classes), but I'm fairly certain the reason they fall a little short on dps is to compensate for their healing power. I don't think it would be very balanced with other classes to have templars putting out same dps as them and have the awesome healing power at their disposal.
Having played a templar, the class is at a pretty good spot for getting through all the content with no problem solo and can hang well in pvp. Sure, they have to be played a bit differently in some cases - which might be where some run into problems, but they are far from broken.
Then why aren't DK's penalized for being the best tanks?
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Merrak✭✭✭david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »Seriously, just make Repentance return Magicka and Stamina rather than Health and Stamina (Templars already have lots of ways of restoring health; we don't need another!)
So, a few personal notes about the ability in general.
The Repentance morph is useless in most boss fights, thanks to very little trash pulls during a majority of boss fights, especially when you would need this ability the most.
The Radiant Aura morph is extremely lacking as well, as a 6 meter range increase is somewhat meaningless in most situations, as you will always either be right on top of your melee, or everyone is so spread out they cannot receive the buff.
If they changed this ability as you suggest by removing the passive for health, it will be an immediate nerf to Templar tanks who do use this ability actively and keep it on their bars for the regen boost.
I would suggest the following changes to the abilities. Feel free to disagree with me.
Restoring Aura should stay the same.- Passive: Regen increased by 15% for Stamina and Health
- Active: Increase Regen an additional 80% for Stamina and Health
Repentance should remain no cost, but change the per dead npc part to per number of group members in the circle, with a 20 second cooldown.- Passive: Regen increased by 15% for Stamina and Health
- Active: Restore ## Stamina and Health per group member within range. Can only work actively once every 20 seconds.
Radiant Aura should maybe have a lower cost, but with Magicka added to the stats.- Passive: Regen increased by 15% for Magicka, Stamina and Health
- Active: Increase Regen an additional 80% for Magicka, Stamina and Health.
Merrak | Templar Main
The Descendants | NA Server | Daggerfall Covenant1 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm sure some minor tweaks are needed to class skills for templars (they are needed for all classes), but I'm fairly certain the reason they fall a little short on dps is to compensate for their healing power. I don't think it would be very balanced with other classes to have templars putting out same dps as them and have the awesome healing power at their disposal.
Having played a templar, the class is at a pretty good spot for getting through all the content with no problem solo and can hang well in pvp. Sure, they have to be played a bit differently in some cases - which might be where some run into problems, but they are far from broken.
Then why aren't DK's penalized for being the best tanks?
You are talking to a guy that has a NB tank and DK tank and prefer his NB tank.
Though I get what you are saying about DKs. But two wrongs don't make a right. That class still probably needs some different kind of tweaks. Also: templars make excellent tanks.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC1 -
Merrak✭✭✭Ok, i am new to tanking. And i did a DK tank before.
Things like Dragonclaw and in Raids the tank ultimate make the DK to NR1.
I take the caltrops to gain initial aggro. That works.
Hel Rah first boss. I didn`t find a group yet, who wanted me to stand still in the -35% phase. I had to run.
All the DK`s? Just stand there and laugh without even bloking.
Hmm. I stand still and Blazing Shield spam through it. Have Shuffle on, throw Restoring Focus down, Shield Spam, and boss dies. Tell your group to lace up their boots because they are about to see some serious stuff!
Edited by Merrak on November 18, 2014 5:14PMMerrak | Templar Main
The Descendants | NA Server | Daggerfall Covenant3 -
Pmarsico9✭✭✭✭I'm sure some minor tweaks are needed to class skills for templars (they are needed for all classes), but I'm fairly certain the reason they fall a little short on dps is to compensate for their healing power. I don't think it would be very balanced with other classes to have templars putting out same dps as them and have the awesome healing power at their disposal.
Having played a templar, the class is at a pretty good spot for getting through all the content with no problem solo and can hang well in pvp. Sure, they have to be played a bit differently in some cases - which might be where some run into problems, but they are far from broken.
Then why aren't DK's penalized for being the best tanks?
You are talking to a guy that has a NB tank and DK tank and prefer his NB tank.
Though I get what you are saying about DKs. But two wrongs don't make a right. That class still probably needs some different kind of tweaks. Also: templars make excellent tanks.
How many tanks do you need in a run?
How many healers?
How many DPS?
How do you go about changing the paradigm that exists right now that Templars aren't viable DPSers for Veteran Speed runs and PUG Trials? Or is it by design that Templars shouldn't have the ability to get those slots and therefore not participate in end game the way the vast majority of ESO's population does because they can heal without a resto staff?
Also, do you feel it's fair that the class description should be altered at character creation to highlight the fact that the class has suppressed DPS because they can heal?
Or should we pretend for a moment that the DPS issue can be addressed through a creative manner without supporting the class' healing?
EDIT:
See, when it's not in a vacuum, there's no way it works as it's currently implemented in a means towards being fair to Templars. Nobody ever answers these questions.Edited by Pmarsico9 on November 18, 2014 5:33PM3 -
Lord_Kreegan✭✭✭✭✭My main is a Templar using a combination of Dawn's Wrath and Destruction Staff on one bar and healing skills on the other bar.
He doesn't kill as fast as a lot of other classes, but -- as long as I have room to kite a mob -- he does okay.
The only problems occur when (a) the leash on a mob is ridiculously short and the mob resets even when within aggro range; and (b) when the mob has those wonderful "insta-kill" mechanics with no tell/no animation.0 -
Iduyenn✭✭✭✭Ok, i am new to tanking. And i did a DK tank before.
Things like Dragonclaw and in Raids the tank ultimate make the DK to NR1.
I take the caltrops to gain initial aggro. That works.
Hel Rah first boss. I didn`t find a group yet, who wanted me to stand still in the -35% phase. I had to run.
All the DK`s? Just stand there and laugh without even bloking.
Hmm. I stand still and Blazing Shield spam through it. Have Shuffle on, throw Restoring Focus down, Shield Spam, and boss dies. Tell your group to lace up their boots because they are about to see some serious stuff!
:P
With Shuffle you mean "hold your shield" ? (Sorry my bad understanding).
Would love to have you post here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/140423/tank-sets-patch-1-5#latest
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Merrak✭✭✭No sir, I mean the medium armor ability Shuffle, the one that adds 20% Dodge Chance for 25 seconds. But yes, you should also hold your shield up to block as well.Merrak | Templar Main
The Descendants | NA Server | Daggerfall Covenant1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »As thomas.k.grayb14_ESO said The DPS for a templar is vampires bane, blazing spear, and biting jabs. (and in that order so all the passives trigger)
But most templars went down the other morph tree for soloing (reflective Light and Puncturing Sweep)and will not change it to get more dps.
Biting jabs means you are in melee range and have to do a lot of moving on boss fights. Blazing spears is hard to always keep the boss in the DOT (which procs Burning Light)
Its doable but not easy mode like some other classes. Most dungeons runs prefer everyone to be range except the tank and some think this is the only way it should be. With a little bit of practice with those three templar skills and some weaving in light\medium attacks. Templar DPS is not that bad, just harder to pull off.thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »
That only applies to Trials. Which are like...0.001% of the game, and which I do find...unbalanced, to put it one way.Seriously the amount of misinformation is ridiculous. Nightblades are holding 2K DPS sustained as casters and stamina based in trials right now.
DK's aren't far behind.
Anybody telling me there's no issue with Templars when you see "LFM AA run" and you shoot the guy a tell to get into the group and he tells you that he already has a healer and you can't come because of your class doesn't understand that it's metric imbalances.
Because this happens daily. I don't even inquire anymore.
They prefer DK tanks and the one thing they always have is their healer who is geared to hell. You guys don't get it, you get excluded.
I'm not going to suddenly want to play melee or be some holy archer thing that doesn't make thematic sense to me at all because some guy tells me to L2P because I'm doing it wrong.
I wanted to tank, that's out because tanking is essentially talons CC, and I don't want to have to go level medium armor and stamina based things I never wanted to play.
The Magicka based builds scale better, they have better AoE, and their weapons scale better, flat out. The Class simply doesn't have anything close to the passives of others nor do they have the abilities to support them.
It's that simple. Templar caster dps can't sustain crap and do crap damage anyway.
"Oh but you can heal without a resto staff." Yes and everybody else can heal with one and have class damage abilities to put on that same bar with those heals.
It's not about easy mode. It's about math.
If Trials are so important for you, then I'm sorry you feel that way. IMO the problem is more with the Trials makeup than that of templar class.
That story is completely different with other group content.
Except that their DPS sucks in Veteran Dungeon speed runs too.
It's noticeable. I don't know what level you are, or what your experience is, but go do veteran spindle clutch with 2 Templar DPS with the dungeon scaled up to VR12.
The game may have been advertised as being about more than metrics, but there's no way around it: Metrical imbalances are severe and exist. The content doesn't change that. DPS potentials are NB/DK and Sorcs and Good Templars maxing out in full stamina builds at half of that of the NB/DK.
This is not a small issue. People want to paint it that way, fine, it's not good design any way you shake it.
You play with bad templars, it's as simple as that. I laid out in an earlier post the abilities that are used to DPS on a magicka templar... they are all templar class abilities.
Would I PUG a templar DPS? No I wouldn't because then you end up with some nub wearing heavy armor, sporting sword and board, that spam casts dark flare like it's going out of style.
A magicka Templar's DPS rotation is harder to manage than a DK's or NB's rotation, primarily because one of the abilities is ground target and another is a channel. That doesn't mean it can't be done. Good templars are doing it.
And yes, it is sustainable for dungeons and trials... the same way a DK, NB, and Sorc sustain their DPS in longer fights... potions and spell sym.
There were no tweaks to Templar DPS scaling that suddenly made this viable.
You guys don't know what you are talking about. Nothing has been buffed or altered to make Templar casting DPS suddenly work. Otherwise they wouldn't be looking to fix Templar DPS.
Because they are:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/136047/discussion-templars-dawns-wrath-skill-line/p1
You guys are perpetuating nonsense: The only viable Templar DPS build doesn't use any of those abilities.
The only class abilities it uses is Radiant Aura/Repentance and Vamp's Bane:
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/crusader-templar-2h-pve-melee-dps-800-1400-single-target/
And even then, his claims are relative nonsense since the only 1K+ Templar that I know of is Khivas using a similar build.
The math proves ranged caster builds don't work and I've personally done testing on multiple rotations purely at range (which is almost mandatory in this game due to how heavily melee is punished by boss mechanics) and any backlash-based build will not crack more than 750-800. And that's in full VR 14 purple gear, 7 pieces of light armor, and using a Destruction staff with over 65% critical strike, and using spell damage/spell crit pots on CD with near-perfect animation cancelling and 0 downtime on Vamp's Bane's DoT.
I won't even get into Dark Flare aside from the fact that the ability is a complete and total DPS loss for pure-ranged-magicka-based Templars.
It's not about easy mode, it's about scaling and it's about the fact that the class doesn't and has major magicka issues on longer periods of time as well as stupid clipping and the inability of multiple Backlashes to exist on a target.
It's math. It's not conjecture. It mathematically doesn't work.
Looked at your link claiming they are working on templar DPS... that is players talking about changes they want, nothing stating that they are working on templar DPS.
I'll see if I can put together a video for you of Templar DPS using those abilities. As far as 1k+ I can do that in my healing gear with those abilites.
I, for one, eagerly await this video of a Templar DPS doing 1k+ sustained DPS vs a non-deadra/undead enemy in your healing gear while using those abilities. Especially considering how much talking and bragging you have done in this thread.
I'm not holding my breath...Edited by Joy_Division on November 18, 2014 6:53PMMake Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.0 -
cesmode✭✭✭Templar is my first character(lvl 34) and loving it..no down time. I just hate that I'll probably see mainly templars healing endgame...and a lack of templar DPS probably. Maybe Im wrong.
The one problem I have with templars are just a few small bugs, if you want to call them that. Elevation issues when using crescent sweep...swinging and missing...or sometimes when you are moving toward an enemy and use crescent sweep it misses. Using critical rush and puncturing sweep..sometimes you rush too far and end up behind the target facing the wrong way.
Little things like that.
Overall, fun class...and I never enjoyed the 'paladin' archetype in other MMOs before.
But if some of you say there are magicka issues or inherent class issues at endgame, I have no choice but to believe you.
Edited by cesmode on November 18, 2014 6:54PM0 -
Pmarsico9✭✭✭✭
The one problem I have with templars are just a few small bugs, if you want to call them that. Elevation issues when using crescent sweep...swinging and missing...or sometimes when you are moving toward an enemy and use crescent sweep it misses.
Nobody talks about this, but thanks for bringing it up. The stripe of Radial Sweep's actual damage is about a millimeter big.
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Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
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That only applies to Trials. Which are like...0.001% of the game, and which I do find...unbalanced, to put it one way.Seriously the amount of misinformation is ridiculous. Nightblades are holding 2K DPS sustained as casters and stamina based in trials right now.
DK's aren't far behind.
Anybody telling me there's no issue with Templars when you see "LFM AA run" and you shoot the guy a tell to get into the group and he tells you that he already has a healer and you can't come because of your class doesn't understand that it's metric imbalances.
Because this happens daily. I don't even inquire anymore.
They prefer DK tanks and the one thing they always have is their healer who is geared to hell. You guys don't get it, you get excluded.
I'm not going to suddenly want to play melee or be some holy archer thing that doesn't make thematic sense to me at all because some guy tells me to L2P because I'm doing it wrong.
I wanted to tank, that's out because tanking is essentially talons CC, and I don't want to have to go level medium armor and stamina based things I never wanted to play.
The Magicka based builds scale better, they have better AoE, and their weapons scale better, flat out. The Class simply doesn't have anything close to the passives of others nor do they have the abilities to support them.
It's that simple. Templar caster dps can't sustain crap and do crap damage anyway.
"Oh but you can heal without a resto staff." Yes and everybody else can heal with one and have class damage abilities to put on that same bar with those heals.
It's not about easy mode. It's about math.
If Trials are so important for you, then I'm sorry you feel that way. IMO the problem is more with the Trials makeup than that of templar class.
That story is completely different with other group content.
Except that their DPS sucks in Veteran Dungeon speed runs too.
It's noticeable. I don't know what level you are, or what your experience is, but go do veteran spindle clutch with 2 Templar DPS with the dungeon scaled up to VR12.
The game may have been advertised as being about more than metrics, but there's no way around it: Metrical imbalances are severe and exist. The content doesn't change that. DPS potentials are NB/DK and Sorcs and Good Templars maxing out in full stamina builds at half of that of the NB/DK.
This is not a small issue. People want to paint it that way, fine, it's not good design any way you shake it.
So go as tank or heals? These are always in demand for vet dungeons. Unlike sorc healers and tanks, for example. You make it sound like if everyone else can just do any of the 3 roles perfectly, but that's not true.
The whole "play the way you want" idea is obviously not entirely true, but making it sound like purely templar problem is kind of selfish. You guys are great at 2 most demanded dungeon roles. I'm only really good at ONE.
Sorc tanks are bad? That's news. Very few play tanks, but they are largely considered the best tanks after DKs since they are the only class with CC even close to talons. Try it.
Tried it. Tanked(successfully) vet COH and most of Upper Crag. No self heals and horrible stamina management. #2 can be bypassed with certain sets, stamina pots and/or templar spears, #1 cannot. It means that if a situation arises where healer goes down/gets cc'd/distracted/too far and boss hits hard, I'm screwed. I can shield myself a lot, but once my health goes down, there's no way for me to get it back up.
I assume by CC you mean Encase which costs quite a bit and only works in frontal cone. And CC cannot define a good tank on its own since a lot of bosses are without ads and immune to CC.Edited by Magdalina on November 18, 2014 7:16PM0 -
Khivas_Carrick✭✭✭✭✭As thomas.k.grayb14_ESO said The DPS for a templar is vampires bane, blazing spear, and biting jabs. (and in that order so all the passives trigger)
But most templars went down the other morph tree for soloing (reflective Light and Puncturing Sweep)and will not change it to get more dps.
Biting jabs means you are in melee range and have to do a lot of moving on boss fights. Blazing spears is hard to always keep the boss in the DOT (which procs Burning Light)
Its doable but not easy mode like some other classes. Most dungeons runs prefer everyone to be range except the tank and some think this is the only way it should be. With a little bit of practice with those three templar skills and some weaving in light\medium attacks. Templar DPS is not that bad, just harder to pull off.thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »
That only applies to Trials. Which are like...0.001% of the game, and which I do find...unbalanced, to put it one way.Seriously the amount of misinformation is ridiculous. Nightblades are holding 2K DPS sustained as casters and stamina based in trials right now.
DK's aren't far behind.
Anybody telling me there's no issue with Templars when you see "LFM AA run" and you shoot the guy a tell to get into the group and he tells you that he already has a healer and you can't come because of your class doesn't understand that it's metric imbalances.
Because this happens daily. I don't even inquire anymore.
They prefer DK tanks and the one thing they always have is their healer who is geared to hell. You guys don't get it, you get excluded.
I'm not going to suddenly want to play melee or be some holy archer thing that doesn't make thematic sense to me at all because some guy tells me to L2P because I'm doing it wrong.
I wanted to tank, that's out because tanking is essentially talons CC, and I don't want to have to go level medium armor and stamina based things I never wanted to play.
The Magicka based builds scale better, they have better AoE, and their weapons scale better, flat out. The Class simply doesn't have anything close to the passives of others nor do they have the abilities to support them.
It's that simple. Templar caster dps can't sustain crap and do crap damage anyway.
"Oh but you can heal without a resto staff." Yes and everybody else can heal with one and have class damage abilities to put on that same bar with those heals.
It's not about easy mode. It's about math.
If Trials are so important for you, then I'm sorry you feel that way. IMO the problem is more with the Trials makeup than that of templar class.
That story is completely different with other group content.
Except that their DPS sucks in Veteran Dungeon speed runs too.
It's noticeable. I don't know what level you are, or what your experience is, but go do veteran spindle clutch with 2 Templar DPS with the dungeon scaled up to VR12.
The game may have been advertised as being about more than metrics, but there's no way around it: Metrical imbalances are severe and exist. The content doesn't change that. DPS potentials are NB/DK and Sorcs and Good Templars maxing out in full stamina builds at half of that of the NB/DK.
This is not a small issue. People want to paint it that way, fine, it's not good design any way you shake it.
You play with bad templars, it's as simple as that. I laid out in an earlier post the abilities that are used to DPS on a magicka templar... they are all templar class abilities.
Would I PUG a templar DPS? No I wouldn't because then you end up with some nub wearing heavy armor, sporting sword and board, that spam casts dark flare like it's going out of style.
A magicka Templar's DPS rotation is harder to manage than a DK's or NB's rotation, primarily because one of the abilities is ground target and another is a channel. That doesn't mean it can't be done. Good templars are doing it.
And yes, it is sustainable for dungeons and trials... the same way a DK, NB, and Sorc sustain their DPS in longer fights... potions and spell sym.
There were no tweaks to Templar DPS scaling that suddenly made this viable.
You guys don't know what you are talking about. Nothing has been buffed or altered to make Templar casting DPS suddenly work. Otherwise they wouldn't be looking to fix Templar DPS.
Because they are:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/136047/discussion-templars-dawns-wrath-skill-line/p1
You guys are perpetuating nonsense: The only viable Templar DPS build doesn't use any of those abilities.
The only class abilities it uses is Radiant Aura/Repentance and Vamp's Bane:
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/crusader-templar-2h-pve-melee-dps-800-1400-single-target/
And even then, his claims are relative nonsense since the only 1K+ Templar that I know of is Khivas using a similar build.
The math proves ranged caster builds don't work and I've personally done testing on multiple rotations purely at range (which is almost mandatory in this game due to how heavily melee is punished by boss mechanics) and any backlash-based build will not crack more than 750-800. And that's in full VR 14 purple gear, 7 pieces of light armor, and using a Destruction staff with over 65% critical strike, and using spell damage/spell crit pots on CD with near-perfect animation cancelling and 0 downtime on Vamp's Bane's DoT.
I won't even get into Dark Flare aside from the fact that the ability is a complete and total DPS loss for pure-ranged-magicka-based Templars.
It's not about easy mode, it's about scaling and it's about the fact that the class doesn't and has major magicka issues on longer periods of time as well as stupid clipping and the inability of multiple Backlashes to exist on a target.
It's math. It's not conjecture. It mathematically doesn't work.
Aww, my name got dropped, Senpai notices me!eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »You may be a Trash Templar but I'm not I can DPS in Trials, and there's Hybrid builds doing 1,1k+ DPS wich is more than enough. As both Hybrid DPS and Healer I don't have magicka management issues. Templar is Strong. Best Healer, Best Tank. Best support. Decent DPS.
Stop complaining.
No, just no. We are not the best tanks. We're viable, yes, but a Sorc is just as good as someone recently proved to me. We are the best healers of course, even best off healers, but that's besides the point here.
Yes, I can reach 1k-1.2k DPS, but my avg is a flat 1k becuase my min is only 750, which ironically is all that's needed to continue and win most if not all fights in this game at the present moment. I've also done 99% of the speed challenges, with CoA being the only one I don't have due to not finding that group symmetry yet.
And speaking of Group Symmetry, that's important, extremely so. Want to know why my guild brings along a lowly Templar Melee DPS like myself to damn near everything that goes on? It's because that I can keep up a decent enough DPS Threshold while at the same time providing small scale CC with my weapon and aiding the other Stamina Based Classes, i.e the Nightblades and Dragonknights with Blazing Spears. They don't even need to ask for it, they just get one because it's part of my rotation, and they know that, and I know that, it's just how we work.
Play together for so long and things simply begin to run like clockwork, in my case my guild, <Sheogortah's Few>, playing so well together that *** just blends and works. We know each other, and frankly the reason a lot of PUGS don't bring Templars for DPS or Tanks is because they want the easy way out, they don't want to use their heads or work together 100%, just 50/50 until the bosses are dead, and you can't do that with a diverse group, you simply can't, and that's why PUG Templars can't show off as much, simply because they don't know what the group does and doesn't need.
As a DPS Templar who loves the Paladin playstyle, I can safely say that I do not want an easy mode button, I just want the option to not be excluded because others can't work together as a team and learn to fight a different way. This is literally the cream of every single "Equality Argument" ever conceived; No to stereotyped class roles and end game segregation, and sadly that's not 100% a joke statement.
In light of this though I am going to copy and paste a submission to the Battlemaster's Corner, something I wrote up in hopes of having ZoS themselves break the stupid trope that every single Templar build be built around healing (because that's the dumbest *** thing I have ever seen, DnD doesn't even do that ***) and to show that they can indeed DPS, even if it's harder than the other classes.
That said, I'm going to do it in another discussion, and when it's posted, I'll post here with the link.Bobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!1 -
Khivas_Carrick✭✭✭✭✭And voila, thread is up.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/140492/the-vagrant-jaeger-templar-2h-bow-dps-build?new=1
OH! And to the guy that said about the link that was given saying something along the lines of "Oh that's not a Dev post saying they're fixing it, that's just some guy listing what he wants":
Go F*** yourself. If there was nothing to fix then a majority of the class' population wouldn't be posting issues about it, and a Staffer wouldn't have taken the time to read a detailed, popular, well read thread and reply to it. That acknowledges that there's a problem, and hopefully it's one that gets fixed soon.
Also, don't think I don't realize that Sorcs are also getting *** on lately, because I do, I really do, and I feel for you them. Hopefully ZoS gets their stuff together and we can all be on our merry way on the Balance Train.Bobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!2 -
Pmarsico9✭✭✭✭Khivas_Carrick wrote: »And voila, thread is up.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/140492/the-vagrant-jaeger-templar-2h-bow-dps-build?new=1
OH! And to the guy that said about the link that was given saying something along the lines of "Oh that's not a Dev post saying they're fixing it, that's just some guy listing what he wants":
Go F*** yourself. If there was nothing to fix then a majority of the class' population wouldn't be posting issues about it, and a Staffer wouldn't have taken the time to read a detailed, popular, well read thread and reply to it. That acknowledges that there's a problem, and hopefully it's one that gets fixed soon.
Also, don't think I don't realize that Sorcs are also getting *** on lately, because I do, I really do, and I feel for you them. Hopefully ZoS gets their stuff together and we can all be on our merry way on the Balance Train.
You'll probably get reprimanded by ZOS, but you are 100% right. And what you said about Sorcs is true too. They need to address passives and coefficients and then they need to go a step further and drag backlash out back and kill it with the fury of 1000 suns.0 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm sure some minor tweaks are needed to class skills for templars (they are needed for all classes), but I'm fairly certain the reason they fall a little short on dps is to compensate for their healing power. I don't think it would be very balanced with other classes to have templars putting out same dps as them and have the awesome healing power at their disposal.
Having played a templar, the class is at a pretty good spot for getting through all the content with no problem solo and can hang well in pvp. Sure, they have to be played a bit differently in some cases - which might be where some run into problems, but they are far from broken.
Then why aren't DK's penalized for being the best tanks?
You are talking to a guy that has a NB tank and DK tank and prefer his NB tank.
Though I get what you are saying about DKs. But two wrongs don't make a right. That class still probably needs some different kind of tweaks. Also: templars make excellent tanks.
How many tanks do you need in a run?
How many healers?
How many DPS?
How do you go about changing the paradigm that exists right now that Templars aren't viable DPSers for Veteran Speed runs and PUG Trials? Or is it by design that Templars shouldn't have the ability to get those slots and therefore not participate in end game the way the vast majority of ESO's population does because they can heal without a resto staff?
Also, do you feel it's fair that the class description should be altered at character creation to highlight the fact that the class has suppressed DPS because they can heal?
Or should we pretend for a moment that the DPS issue can be addressed through a creative manner without supporting the class' healing?
EDIT:
See, when it's not in a vacuum, there's no way it works as it's currently implemented in a means towards being fair to Templars. Nobody ever answers these questions.
In my opinion, the only way templars should get equal DPS to the other classes if they lost their healing power difference. That would make it even, if you could do that kind of dps with a templar, plus have access to those heals, why would anyone play any other class?
They already make one of the best tanks in the game, the make THE best healer in the game (yes, I've run with great healers from other classes) and do decent dps. (Apply a DoT from your skills, then rotate crushing shock and light attack like every other class does). They also have some other unique tools at their disposal in fights like the bubble and the beam thing, rune focus, etc. (sorry, not on game atm and can't remember names lol). It's an outstanding class at the moment.
*Not to say things probably don't need work, all classes do really.
Also, I, and our group healer templar, has also dps'd (refusing to use crushing shock and only templar powers - I'm not that restrictive). Again, you are right, it's not as high as other classes, but yes, you can hang in vet dungeons (we only do gold run pledges everyday at v12). They can hang, but again - you are right - they are just hanging, they aren't kicking butt at it. But if you make every class equal, then you lose some of what makes them unique.
Every class has certain roles they are stronger at than others, some even a couple roles.
You are also always going to have players that want cookie cutter builds to do certain runs because they either 1. don't want to take chances b/c they don't trust themselves with pugs or 2. don't know any better (or both). I have people that won't let me tank with my NB tank and I have no qualms saying I'm probably one of the better tanks in the game. I also had groups that wouldn't let me join up on my stamina dps NB back before the buffs (I ran him up at launch, before any changes or nerfs to vet and did excellent dps). Part of that is player ignorance or unwillingness to take a chance and part of that is zos' fault for the trials. There is more endgame that trials, but the guys that do those a lot are some of the worst offenders of the cookie cutter beliefs. I've run with them in trials, it's all stack and burn, get heals constantly and sit in veils constantly and very little skill is involved (maybe Sanctum is better). We've taken them in dungeon runs and they are terrible. Give me a player that does a couple hundred less dps but knows how to stay alive or help his group over someone bragging about doing insane dps on some random group pull (favorite question when they are dead: What's your dps now?).
I get what you are saying, I really do. I just don't agree that they should have dps equal to what the other classes can do when they are already the best at one or two roles (one by far).
As for changing the description on the class: I guess I could see some minor changes. I didn't realize they sold it as the greatest dps class or anything. Seeing as it can definitely do all the solo content perfectly fine, handle pvp great and hang in most any good dungeon group - that's not exactly in the 'sucking' department. I haven't talked to anyone with or tried a solid stamina based build with them (other than the bowplar I played in pts long ago), which could do good dps while augmenting their healing and protection with templar powers.
Not sure what questions you aren't getting answered, if none of my ramblings did, then I probably didn't understand the question. Or I do, and we just disagree.
I mean, if you make templars equal to the other classes in dps, then what do you do to make the other classes equal to templars in healing power or tanking power (DK not counting on the tanking question).-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC0 -
Pmarsico9✭✭✭✭I'm sure some minor tweaks are needed to class skills for templars (they are needed for all classes), but I'm fairly certain the reason they fall a little short on dps is to compensate for their healing power. I don't think it would be very balanced with other classes to have templars putting out same dps as them and have the awesome healing power at their disposal.
Having played a templar, the class is at a pretty good spot for getting through all the content with no problem solo and can hang well in pvp. Sure, they have to be played a bit differently in some cases - which might be where some run into problems, but they are far from broken.
Then why aren't DK's penalized for being the best tanks?
You are talking to a guy that has a NB tank and DK tank and prefer his NB tank.
Though I get what you are saying about DKs. But two wrongs don't make a right. That class still probably needs some different kind of tweaks. Also: templars make excellent tanks.
How many tanks do you need in a run?
How many healers?
How many DPS?
How do you go about changing the paradigm that exists right now that Templars aren't viable DPSers for Veteran Speed runs and PUG Trials? Or is it by design that Templars shouldn't have the ability to get those slots and therefore not participate in end game the way the vast majority of ESO's population does because they can heal without a resto staff?
Also, do you feel it's fair that the class description should be altered at character creation to highlight the fact that the class has suppressed DPS because they can heal?
Or should we pretend for a moment that the DPS issue can be addressed through a creative manner without supporting the class' healing?
EDIT:
See, when it's not in a vacuum, there's no way it works as it's currently implemented in a means towards being fair to Templars. Nobody ever answers these questions.
In my opinion, the only way templars should get equal DPS to the other classes if they lost their healing power difference. That would make it even, if you could do that kind of dps with a templar, plus have access to those heals, why would anyone play any other class?
They already make one of the best tanks in the game, the make THE best healer in the game (yes, I've run with great healers from other classes) and do decent dps. (Apply a DoT from your skills, then rotate crushing shock and light attack like every other class does). They also have some other unique tools at their disposal in fights like the bubble and the beam thing, rune focus, etc. (sorry, not on game atm and can't remember names lol). It's an outstanding class at the moment.
*Not to say things probably don't need work, all classes do really.
Also, I, and our group healer templar, has also dps'd (refusing to use crushing shock and only templar powers - I'm not that restrictive). Again, you are right, it's not as high as other classes, but yes, you can hang in vet dungeons (we only do gold run pledges everyday at v12). They can hang, but again - you are right - they are just hanging, they aren't kicking butt at it. But if you make every class equal, then you lose some of what makes them unique.
Every class has certain roles they are stronger at than others, some even a couple roles.
You are also always going to have players that want cookie cutter builds to do certain runs because they either 1. don't want to take chances b/c they don't trust themselves with pugs or 2. don't know any better (or both). I have people that won't let me tank with my NB tank and I have no qualms saying I'm probably one of the better tanks in the game. I also had groups that wouldn't let me join up on my stamina dps NB back before the buffs (I ran him up at launch, before any changes or nerfs to vet and did excellent dps). Part of that is player ignorance or unwillingness to take a chance and part of that is zos' fault for the trials. There is more endgame that trials, but the guys that do those a lot are some of the worst offenders of the cookie cutter beliefs. I've run with them in trials, it's all stack and burn, get heals constantly and sit in veils constantly and very little skill is involved (maybe Sanctum is better). We've taken them in dungeon runs and they are terrible. Give me a player that does a couple hundred less dps but knows how to stay alive or help his group over someone bragging about doing insane dps on some random group pull (favorite question when they are dead: What's your dps now?).
I get what you are saying, I really do. I just don't agree that they should have dps equal to what the other classes can do when they are already the best at one or two roles (one by far).
As for changing the description on the class: I guess I could see some minor changes. I didn't realize they sold it as the greatest dps class or anything. Seeing as it can definitely do all the solo content perfectly fine, handle pvp great and hang in most any good dungeon group - that's not exactly in the 'sucking' department. I haven't talked to anyone with or tried a solid stamina based build with them (other than the bowplar I played in pts long ago), which could do good dps while augmenting their healing and protection with templar powers.
Not sure what questions you aren't getting answered, if none of my ramblings did, then I probably didn't understand the question. Or I do, and we just disagree.
I mean, if you make templars equal to the other classes in dps, then what do you do to make the other classes equal to templars in healing power or tanking power (DK not counting on the tanking question).
Templars get excluded from content for the vast amount of available roles.
How do you fix that without making the class equal DPS?
You think nobody would play another class if Templars could do equal DPS to even Sorcs? Really?
Making things equal doesn't mean you give up uniqueness.
And what if I told you that it's been suggested numerous times, as a fix, to simply attach this as a passive to the class:
"When you have 5 damaging abilities on your bars and a non-restoring Light ultimate, you gain 20% magicka regen and do 25% extra damage."
Doesn't that work? Because even if the Templar has heals on its other bar, that's commisserate with having to use a Resto staff, is it not? And the abilities hit like garbage as it stands without a bonus like that and they can't sustain anything.
The bottom line is: Your line of thinking is only really applicable to PVP, where even then, they aren't nearly as flagrantly overpowered as the Dragon Knight is. Are they strong? Sure. But not like DK's. Suggesting that the class has to be pigeonholed to the two lowest population roles and be viewed as such by those organizing group content due to "uniqueness" is a cop out.
There is no excuse, homogenization or otherwise, where a class shouldn't be capable to act as an equal DPS in PVE content. In PVP? Yeah you need checks and balances. But to exclude a class from consideration of an entire role?
That's poppycock. If that's going to be the case, and DK's are the best tanks, then where's the posts about nerfing DK DPS? Or buffing Sorcs? Because your reality isn't working as it stands now. DK's pay no penalties for being great tanks. Sorcs pay penalties for having easy access to endless magicka. It's all very stupid and they need to fix all these inequalities and understand that 9 times out of 10, you need to be able to do equivalent DPS mathematically. The delivery systems are where you can create differentiation.
With that said, you will always have cookie cutter builds because Math is real.Edited by Pmarsico9 on November 18, 2014 9:54PM3 -
someuser✭✭✭✭david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »Fix magicka management and Focused Charge, and I think Templars would be in a good place.
Seriously, just make Repentance return Magicka and Stamina rather than Health and Stamina (Templars already have lots of ways of restoring health; we don't need another!), and fix the self-imposed stunlock that is Focused Charge, and we'd be fine.
@zos when will focused charged be fixed? This has been an issue for a long time now. I recently spec'ed out of focused charge because, ontop of the lag and unreliability of weapon swapping, getting stunlocked in the middle of a fight is just the last straw.
This has been an issue for months. Are you going to address this or will it only matter if the issue is brought up on reddit where you have potential subs you want to impress (as opposed to all of us loyal customers who you already have our money)?
Can we get ANY official word on this issue???
Thank youTo make ESO look and feel like a PC MMO check out the following:
PhinixUI addon-powered interface for ESO2 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm sure some minor tweaks are needed to class skills for templars (they are needed for all classes), but I'm fairly certain the reason they fall a little short on dps is to compensate for their healing power. I don't think it would be very balanced with other classes to have templars putting out same dps as them and have the awesome healing power at their disposal.
Having played a templar, the class is at a pretty good spot for getting through all the content with no problem solo and can hang well in pvp. Sure, they have to be played a bit differently in some cases - which might be where some run into problems, but they are far from broken.
Then why aren't DK's penalized for being the best tanks?
You are talking to a guy that has a NB tank and DK tank and prefer his NB tank.
Though I get what you are saying about DKs. But two wrongs don't make a right. That class still probably needs some different kind of tweaks. Also: templars make excellent tanks.
How many tanks do you need in a run?
How many healers?
How many DPS?
How do you go about changing the paradigm that exists right now that Templars aren't viable DPSers for Veteran Speed runs and PUG Trials? Or is it by design that Templars shouldn't have the ability to get those slots and therefore not participate in end game the way the vast majority of ESO's population does because they can heal without a resto staff?
Also, do you feel it's fair that the class description should be altered at character creation to highlight the fact that the class has suppressed DPS because they can heal?
Or should we pretend for a moment that the DPS issue can be addressed through a creative manner without supporting the class' healing?
EDIT:
See, when it's not in a vacuum, there's no way it works as it's currently implemented in a means towards being fair to Templars. Nobody ever answers these questions.
In my opinion, the only way templars should get equal DPS to the other classes if they lost their healing power difference. That would make it even, if you could do that kind of dps with a templar, plus have access to those heals, why would anyone play any other class?
They already make one of the best tanks in the game, the make THE best healer in the game (yes, I've run with great healers from other classes) and do decent dps. (Apply a DoT from your skills, then rotate crushing shock and light attack like every other class does). They also have some other unique tools at their disposal in fights like the bubble and the beam thing, rune focus, etc. (sorry, not on game atm and can't remember names lol). It's an outstanding class at the moment.
*Not to say things probably don't need work, all classes do really.
Also, I, and our group healer templar, has also dps'd (refusing to use crushing shock and only templar powers - I'm not that restrictive). Again, you are right, it's not as high as other classes, but yes, you can hang in vet dungeons (we only do gold run pledges everyday at v12). They can hang, but again - you are right - they are just hanging, they aren't kicking butt at it. But if you make every class equal, then you lose some of what makes them unique.
Every class has certain roles they are stronger at than others, some even a couple roles.
You are also always going to have players that want cookie cutter builds to do certain runs because they either 1. don't want to take chances b/c they don't trust themselves with pugs or 2. don't know any better (or both). I have people that won't let me tank with my NB tank and I have no qualms saying I'm probably one of the better tanks in the game. I also had groups that wouldn't let me join up on my stamina dps NB back before the buffs (I ran him up at launch, before any changes or nerfs to vet and did excellent dps). Part of that is player ignorance or unwillingness to take a chance and part of that is zos' fault for the trials. There is more endgame that trials, but the guys that do those a lot are some of the worst offenders of the cookie cutter beliefs. I've run with them in trials, it's all stack and burn, get heals constantly and sit in veils constantly and very little skill is involved (maybe Sanctum is better). We've taken them in dungeon runs and they are terrible. Give me a player that does a couple hundred less dps but knows how to stay alive or help his group over someone bragging about doing insane dps on some random group pull (favorite question when they are dead: What's your dps now?).
I get what you are saying, I really do. I just don't agree that they should have dps equal to what the other classes can do when they are already the best at one or two roles (one by far).
As for changing the description on the class: I guess I could see some minor changes. I didn't realize they sold it as the greatest dps class or anything. Seeing as it can definitely do all the solo content perfectly fine, handle pvp great and hang in most any good dungeon group - that's not exactly in the 'sucking' department. I haven't talked to anyone with or tried a solid stamina based build with them (other than the bowplar I played in pts long ago), which could do good dps while augmenting their healing and protection with templar powers.
Not sure what questions you aren't getting answered, if none of my ramblings did, then I probably didn't understand the question. Or I do, and we just disagree.
I mean, if you make templars equal to the other classes in dps, then what do you do to make the other classes equal to templars in healing power or tanking power (DK not counting on the tanking question).
Templars get excluded from content for the vast amount of available roles.
How do you fix that without making the class equal DPS?
You think nobody would play another class if Templars could do equal DPS to even Sorcs? Really?
Making things equal doesn't mean you give up uniqueness.
And what if I told you that it's been suggested numerous times, as a fix, to simply attach this as a passive to the class:
"When you have 5 damaging abilities on your bars and a non-restoring Light ultimate, you gain 20% magicka regen and do 25% extra damage."
Doesn't that work? Because even if the Templar has heals on its other bar, that's commisserate with having to use a Resto staff, is it not? And the abilities hit like garbage as it stands without a bonus like that and they can't sustain anything.
The bottom line is: Your line of thinking is only really applicable to PVP, where even then, they aren't nearly as flagrantly overpowered as the Dragon Knight is. Are they strong? Sure. But not like DK's. Suggesting that the class has to be pigeonholed to the two lowest population roles and be viewed as such by those organizing group content due to "uniqueness" is a cop out.
There is no excuse, homogenization or otherwise, where a class shouldn't be capable to act as an equal DPS in PVE content. In PVP? Yeah you need checks and balances. But to exclude a class from consideration of an entire role?
That's poppycock. If that's going to be the case, and DK's are the best tanks, then where's the posts about nerfing DK DPS? Or buffing Sorcs? Because your reality isn't working as it stands now. DK's pay no penalties for being great tanks. Sorcs pay penalties for having easy access to endless magicka. It's all very stupid and they need to fix all these inequalities and understand that 9 times out of 10, you need to be able to do equivalent DPS mathematically. The delivery systems are where you can create differentiation.
With that said, you will always have cookie cutter builds because Math is real.
eh, my line of thinking is as a PvEr, I PvP a very small percentage of my overall time.
Like I said before, I could see some small tweaks to the powers, but nothing substantial that would make them out dps other classes easily. They already can do better dps than most people think.
Also: There are countless threads still talking about DKs being OP and threads asking for buffs to sorcs.
And cookie cutter builds don't exist b/c of math, they exist b/c only one or two people do the math and everyone follows their lead until someone comes along and shows they can do math too.
-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC0 -
Dubah✭✭✭Here's how I see the different classes for each possible role in PVE. Feel free to disagree, but I think templars are not that bad.
Templar
- DPS 2/4 (good DPS scores from hybrid builds but not sustained)
- Heal 4/4 (no contest here, best healing abilities even if they need the proper gear for better sustain)
- Tank 3/4 (sturdy, self heals and shields)
Sorcerer
- DPS 3/4 (good sustain and self-heals with surge, but lower DPS score than others because of the lack of DoT, good execute)
- Heal 2/4 (0 class specific abilities, good sustain)
- Tank 2/4 (can increase its armor/spell resist and that's it)
DK
- DPS 4/4 (I don't play DK, just guessing here based on DPS scores)
- Heal 1/4 (not played)
- Tank 4/4 (not played)
Nightblade
- DPS 4/4 (good DoT, high DPS scores, very good execute)
- Heal 3/4 (not as good as templars but effective)
- Tank 3/4 (not played, seems effective in trials though)
Wow this is all screwed up. How is sorc as a tank 2/4? I'd rate it at 3/4 or 4/4 and if you really want to know why, check out Twitch.tv/layenem and pay some close attention... Sorc tank in light armor, we even did a dungeon run last night with him without bound armor and did just the same. I will say I have healed for every tank this game has to offer and by far the best has been a sorc tank... Should look more at can a tank survive.
As far as magicka management I do just fine. I mostly play healer, rarely use the heals from templar, only when i really need to. I second as a magicka based dps although ive never really put much thought into it seeing as i dont like to do it, so i generally get about 400 dps single target and thats sustained, but then again i havent really tried. Magicka management has never been my concern1 -
Thechemicals✭✭✭✭✭Templar base class is not supposed to be a dps based class....thats how balanc eis offset when you can remove debuffs and heal, core.Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
Vr14 Dk bow/2h
Brayan Blackthunder
Goddick
Daggerfall Covenant0 -
Pmarsico9✭✭✭✭Thechemicals wrote: »Templar base class is not supposed to be a dps based class....thats how balanc eis offset when you can remove debuffs and heal, core.
So why isn't it in the class description? Why when I rolled my main did I read this nowhere? Because it's completely excluded by PUGs as a viable DPSer at end game.2 -
manny254✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree that damage needs to be buffed, but magic issues are fine. If you are a healer you should be heavy attacking, and I feel people don't understand rune focus.
Rune focus gives 5 magic every .5 seconds. So it gives you 20 magic every 2 seconds. Regen in this games is counted every 2 seconds. So you get 20 regen unaffected by soft caps.- Mojican0 -
Iduyenn✭✭✭✭Thechemicals wrote: »Templar base class is not supposed to be a dps based class....thats how balanc eis offset when you can remove debuffs and heal, core.
Ok, but why do we have dmg abbilities, which are usless in many ways?
You cant give us just some random skillines like Aedric Speer and dont give us the possibility to make it viable.
I tried today very hard to do a good amount of dps and i have to say, you realy have to break your fingers to do so.
BUT: I dont want ppl to have the possibility to be everyhting at any time.
Even templars need to have some restrictions in Role.
If you focus on doing dmg, you do just that, but you should not be able to heal and tank in the same time.
Even if you make a hybrid, you have to take the consequences and not want to to both perfectly.
The synergy between the roles and classes has to be a good part in your gameplay.
And yes.... i dont like it, that Zenimax implements a soft-version of the holy trinity and expect then, that the ratio Tank:Heal:DD is 1:10:1
That sucks. 1:1:2 in normal dungeons is ok.
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Pmarsico9✭✭✭✭I agree that damage needs to be buffed, but magic issues are fine. If you are a healer you should be heavy attacking, and I feel people don't understand rune focus.
Rune focus gives 5 magic every .5 seconds. So it gives you 20 magic every 2 seconds. Regen in this games is counted every 2 seconds. So you get 20 regen unaffected by soft caps.
Magicka Management for Templars while DPSing is putrid.0
