Update 6 - the last nail in the coffin for sorcerer DPS/Healer in PVE

GreyBrow · November 2014

xaade wrote: »

So, it looks like staves will increase spell damage, right?

If this all is true, then they need to introduce some stat diversity into class skills.
Absolutely no reason for all class to be based on spell damage, spell crit, and more, when you have nothing buffing that when you wear a sword.

I don't want to level staff just so my class skills scale.

Actually learn how to read properly. It is not enough to simply pronounce the words, you must understand the content contained within them.

Since you are obviously unable to do this, let me bring you up to speed:

1. Staves will not increase spell damage.
2. The damage of staff skills currently scales with weapon damage
3. Sorcerer DPS relies on increasing weapon damage through critical surge to be viable.
4. They intend to change staff skills so that they scale with spell power
5. If this happens, sorcerers will lose the one advantage they have as a caster DPS class.

GreyBrow · November 2014

The other issue here is that DPS is really the only viable role for a sorc. They're already the worst tanks and healers in the game. Why? Because we have No damage mitigation ultimates, No self heal, no dodge/miss chance skills, and no class abilities that heal/buff the group. Because of these things, sorcs are forced to DPS, and they're terrible at it. I've recently seen stamina templar builds pulling 1.2k DPS in trials.

If a NB walked in here QQing that he was the worst healing class in the game, you could brush it off, because nightblades are amazing tanks (shades+veil for 75% mitigation), and they're second out of four for DPS.

Same with templars QQing about DPS. No one cares, because they're number one for healing and top 2 for tanking.

DK's are number one for DPS, top two for tanking. If they complained that they were terrible healers, everyone would just LOL their faces off. Currently, DK healers are third, but still better than sorcs, with MUCH more utility (chains, igneous weapons, frag shield, magma armor synergy)

If you want to "rate" the overall utility of a class, rank it on healing, tanking, and DPS out of the 4 classes, add up the numbers, and compare them for a "utility score". The lower the number, the more generally useful the class compared to the others, the higher the number, the worse that class is compared to the others. A score of 12 is as bad as you can get.

IMO:

DK: 1 DPS, 1 Tank, 3 healer
Temp: 4 DPS, 2 Tank, 1 Healer
NB: 2 DPS, 3 Tank, 2 healer
Sorc: 3 DPS, 4 tank, 4 healer

Overall:
DK: 5
Temp: 7
NB: 7
Sorc: 11

When the sorc is four "utility points" away from its nearest neighbor, you know something is wrong. What it should look like:

DK: 3 DPS, 1 Tank, 4 healer
Temp: 4 DPS, 3 tank, 1 healer
NB: 2 DPS, 2 tank, 2 healer
Sorc: 1 DPS, 4 Tank, 3 healer

Overall:
DK: 8
Temp: 8
NB: 6
Sorc: 8

As you can see, three of the classes should have a clear "Niche" role, at which they perform optimally. In order for this power, however, they sacrifice the ability to do something else as well as the other classes. This should provide balance. If a class is ranked 1 for any role, the best they could be at any other role is a 3 in order to provide this balance. Similarly, if a class is ranked "second", they are given more balance by being ranked "second" in every role, and while they are not "best" at any one thing, they are "better" at everything than any class that is the "best" at that one thing.

What this would do is even the playing field, and ensure that no class could be considered "underpowered", because it would be the best at something.

Tanis-Stormbinder · November 2014

Great idea Vahrokh, a sorc passive ability for staffs would work.

Gyudan · November 2014

GreyBrow wrote: »

The other issue here is that DPS is really the only viable role for a sorc. They're already the worst tanks and healers in the game. Why? Because we have No damage mitigation ultimates, No self heal, no dodge/miss chance skills, and no class abilities that heal/buff the group. Because of these things, sorcs are forced to DPS, and they're terrible at it. I've recently seen stamina templar builds pulling 1.2k DPS in trials.

If a NB walked in here QQing that he was the worst healing class in the game, you could brush it off, because nightblades are amazing tanks (shades+veil for 75% mitigation), and they're second out of four for DPS.

Same with templars QQing about DPS. No one cares, because they're number one for healing and top 2 for tanking.

DK's are number one for DPS, top two for tanking. If they complained that they were terrible healers, everyone would just LOL their faces off. Currently, DK healers are third, but still better than sorcs, with MUCH more utility (chains, igneous weapons, frag shield, magma armor synergy)

If you want to "rate" the overall utility of a class, rank it on healing, tanking, and DPS out of the 4 classes, add up the numbers, and compare them for a "utility score". The lower the number, the more generally useful the class compared to the others, the higher the number, the worse that class is compared to the others. A score of 12 is as bad as you can get.

IMO:

DK: 1 DPS, 1 Tank, 3 healer
Temp: 4 DPS, 2 Tank, 1 Healer
NB: 2 DPS, 3 Tank, 2 healer
Sorc: 3 DPS, 4 tank, 4 healer

Overall:
DK: 5
Temp: 7
NB: 7
Sorc: 11

When the sorc is four "utility points" away from its nearest neighbor, you know something is wrong. What it should look like:

DK: 3 DPS, 1 Tank, 4 healer
Temp: 4 DPS, 3 tank, 1 healer
NB: 2 DPS, 2 tank, 2 healer
Sorc: 1 DPS, 4 Tank, 3 healer

Overall:
DK: 8
Temp: 8
NB: 6
Sorc: 8

As you can see, three of the classes should have a clear "Niche" role, at which they perform optimally. In order for this power, however, they sacrifice the ability to do something else as well as the other classes. This should provide balance. If a class is ranked 1 for any role, the best they could be at any other role is a 3 in order to provide this balance. Similarly, if a class is ranked "second", they are given more balance by being ranked "second" in every role, and while they are not "best" at any one thing, they are "better" at everything than any class that is the "best" at that one thing.

What this would do is even the playing field, and ensure that no class could be considered "underpowered", because it would be the best at something.

I fully agree with this comment.

seanvwolf · November 2014

GreyBrow wrote: »

DK: 3 DPS, 1 Tank, 4 healer
Temp: 4 DPS, 3 tank, 1 healer
NB: 2 DPS, 2 tank, 2 healer
Sorc: 1 DPS, 4 Tank, 3 healer

Overall:
DK: 8
Temp: 8
NB: 6
Sorc: 8

I agree with this assessment, but should also point out that the classes should also be able to reach similar numbers regardless of their class if their builds are similar.

This can be accomplished by careful planning on ZOS' part. The idea is to allow competitive skill bar sets for DPS, healing and tanking for each of the classes, with some optional allowances depending on the type of class you are going for.

SBC = Skill Bar Combinations

DK
2 DPS SBC
3 Tank SBC
1 Healer SBC

Temp
1 DPS SBC
2 Tank SBC
3 Healer SBC

Sorc
3 DPS SBC
1 Tank SBC
2 Healer SBC

NB
2 DPS SBC
2 Tank SBC
2 Healer SBC

These combinations should be on par with one another for the purposes of promoting "playing how you want to play". But, if ZOS knows how to make comparable single target DPS builds with a sorcerer that can compete with the other classes, they should share builds they know will reach it, as a proof of concept.

Aeratus · November 2014

Gyudan wrote: »

ericprydz82ub17_ESO wrote: »

Just looking at the top AA time on NA server and I am seeing 5, yes 5, sorcs on the top leaderboard time. Not only is it the best time but it is the best time by a mile: 8m41s750ms compared to the next best time which is 9m12s140ms.

Current best EU for AA (8m11s) and Hel Ra (7m57s)
- 6 nightblades
- 4 dragonknights
- 2 sorcerers
- 0 templars

So i'm guessing the healer spot(s) was the sorc? At least sorc is doing something good.

Gyudan · November 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

So i'm guessing the healer spot(s) was the sorc? At least sorc is doing something good.

Could be sorcerer (3rd best healer class) or nightblade (2nd best).
The amount of health restored by 6 nightblades using funnel health would be quite high as well, so maybe they only needed a few heals here and there.

ThisOnePosts · November 2014

I just wanted to post and say.. LMAO @ those picture references. Accurate or not, they made me laugh.

Not for nothing..... your references to feeling like your class would be best played using weapons you don't want to use, is exactly how most Nightblades have felt since launch.

As someone with 1 of each class, I can say it's true although I don't succumb to using staves on my NB unless it's for trials, etc..

ZOS, just roll out spell-crafting already, that is the best balancing that is in the works that we know of so far.

Rune_Relic · November 2014

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Maybe critical surge will be good for sorca who like to use melee weapons and the skills for them.... like they can now.

My only question, to @ZOS_JoeBlackburn‌, will you add more abilities to the weapon lines or change various class spells to cost stamina instead of magicka. Because skills such as lava whip, ambush, etc, would be better off costing stam and going by stam rules.

I think it really depends on them classifying the classes.
DK = Health / Fighter guild
NB = Stamina / Assassin guild
Sorc = Magicka / Mage guild

If this is not the aim goal of the classes and they are supposed to be generic..
..then the only option is to have 1x magicka tree + 1x stamina tree + 1x health tree for all the classes.

Sooo... make dk skills cost health :? If you are thinking that then know if the game star ocean: till the end of time. They thought making health a common attack resource was a good idea too but that game ended up being so bad because of it. Its a bad idea, period. Health is for taking hits ant the occasional conversion skill to attack resources, thats it.

No you couldnt use health as a dynamic resource while its currently used for lifeforce. You would have to tie lifeforce to character level instead.

olemanwinter · November 2014

You lost me at "Sorcerer".

Since the removal of FC in pvp, everyone has to be sooo careful, except Sorc.

Bolt escape is so insanely OP.

All I encounter in PvP now is "Impulse, Impulse, Fire Ring, Impulse, Bats."

Not to mention your ability to pull everyone and anyone out of stealth through an entire field by just crisscross bolting across it 10 times in 5 seconds.

cschwingeb14_ESO · November 2014

Hyperbole much? The sharpened fix has take a lot of the sting out of batswarm....and that's not a sorc ability. Why do sorcs use it so much? Because it's the only heal we can have on our DPS bar

Gyudan · November 2014

olemanwinter wrote: »

You lost me at "Sorcerer".

Since the removal of FC in pvp, everyone has to be sooo careful, except Sorc.

Bolt escape is so insanely OP.

All I encounter in PvP now is "Impulse, Impulse, Fire Ring, Impulse, Bats."

Not to mention your ability to pull everyone and anyone out of stealth through an entire field by just crisscross bolting across it 10 times in 5 seconds.

You lost me at "PVP".
Please read the title of the thread again. Thanks.

Crescent · November 2014

This is not just a caster sorcerer issue, it's a stamina sorcerer issue.

Most of the class skills outside critical surge, storm form, and mage's wrath/bolt escape are garbage.

The entirety of Daedric Summoning is really bad, Dark Magic is just a crappier version of the DK CC skills and Dark Exchange is the crappiest heal in the game as it CC's you in a long, stationary channel and wipes out your other resources. The pets are terrible, and even many of the sorcerer passives are terrible too and incredibly niche outside the good ones like power stone.

The sorcerer is the only class whose class skills don't benefit stamina builds. You got crit surge, which is an inferior igneous weapons that doesn't buff the group, costs nearly double the magicka, and lasts a third of the time igneous weapons last.

Lightning Flood is terrible, with a pitiful range unless morphed and it does no damage whatsoever unless someone else activates the synergy.

Stamina sorcerers get no class skills that boost their stamina roles like a nightblade or DK do, and ironically their ranged centric spells don't even work on a spellcaster build! We are the only class without a spammable instant cast damage nuke -- nightblades have surprise attack, dk fire lash, templar biting jabs. We instead get stuck with crystal fragments and daedric curse, two subpar skills and daedric curse in particular a total disgrace that's terrible when not morphed and mediocre on the verge of useless when morphed.

And now with build 6 they're killing build variety futher by continuint to increase the divide between spell and weapon crit instead of merging them!

RIP Spellsword builds, get ready for your bar to consist of crit surge and the rest of weaponskills because none of your sorcerer class abilities will ever be useful. And for caster sorcerers they will sit with mage's wrath instead.

They should have done away with the stupid divide of stats and just made all abilities scale their damage and crit off of whichever was higher, weapon or spell power.

Now all classes will be the boring same crap, especially sorcerer, because all the sorcerer class skills lack utility so while a stamina nightblade doesn't get much damage from surprise attack (even though it scales with weapon crit), they get their armor debuff off it and the same goes for haste affecting all their skills as do their passives.

I am pretty disgusted that I rolled a sorcerer to play a battlemage like the NPC's you see around with a 2 hander that do lightning floods and strikes and ports, and yet all I do is put on surge and spam steel tornado or flying blade and never use any of my class skills.

I don't understand why a game who trumpeted build variety is killing it by pigeonholing people into certain stats to derive benefits for certain skills.

There will be no flavor whatsoever, just a generic caster with destro staff skills, rogue/warrior with DW/2H skills, and healer with resto staff skills.

I rolled a sorcerer in ESO to be a blattlemage that exists in every ESO franchise, but apparently Zenimax thinks sorcerers should only use destruction staff and other weaponskills instead of their iconic class skills.

GreyBrow · November 2014

@Crescent‌

The issue with being a battlemage is the armor passives. They're horribly thought out. In previous TES games, the armor skills/passives affected only your skill with that particular armor, and not your DPS.

In ESO, wearing light armor is the main modifier of spell casting DPS, and medium armor is the main modifier of physical DPS... in previous TES games, armor passives/skills modified ONLY your armor.

In ESO, you gain like a 50% DPS increase by using light armor as opposed to heavy armor.

What they need to do is separate the DPS modifiers out of the armor skill trees and put them into the various weapon trees. Add "class" passives to the "world" skill tree. Call them "Mage/warrior/Thief" or some such thing, and make the light armor 10% crit chance passive a 5 point passive under "mage", put the medium armor weapon crit/damage passive under "thief", and so on and so forth.

Then, include a stance toggle so that you can change whichever set of passives you are currently using.

You should also change the way armor works so that there are negative consequences to wearing each armor type. Some ideas:

Heavy armor: triple sprinting cost, reduced physical damage, increased magical damage, increased health regen

Medium armor: increased stamina regen, normal physical/magical damage, reduced roll dodge cost

Light armor: increased magicka regen, half sprint cost, reduced magical damage, increased physical damage.

The problem is that the light armor passives are just too good, pushing everyone towards light armor, because all class abilities use magicka

Rune_Relic · November 2014

GreyBrow wrote: »

@Crescent‌

The issue with being a battlemage is the armor passives. They're horribly thought out. In previous TES games, the armor skills/passives affected only your skill with that particular armor, and not your DPS.

In ESO, wearing light armor is the main modifier of spell casting DPS, and medium armor is the main modifier of physical DPS... in previous TES games, armor passives/skills modified ONLY your armor.

In ESO, you gain like a 50% DPS increase by using light armor as opposed to heavy armor.

What they need to do is separate the DPS modifiers out of the armor skill trees and put them into the various weapon trees. Add "class" passives to the "world" skill tree. Call them "Mage/warrior/Thief" or some such thing, and make the light armor 10% crit chance passive a 5 point passive under "mage", put the medium armor weapon crit/damage passive under "thief", and so on and so forth.

Then, include a stance toggle so that you can change whichever set of passives you are currently using.

You should also change the way armor works so that there are negative consequences to wearing each armor type. Some ideas:

Heavy armor: triple sprinting cost, reduced physical damage, increased magical damage, increased health regen

Medium armor: increased stamina regen, normal physical/magical damage, reduced roll dodge cost

Light armor: increased magicka regen, half sprint cost, reduced magical damage, increased physical damage.

The problem is that the light armor passives are just too good, pushing everyone towards light armor, because all class abilities use magicka

QFT for the most part....

Class skills ~ Magicka + Spell damage
Mages Guild ~ Magicka + Spell Damage
Undaunted ~ Magicka + Spell Damage
Vampire line ~ Magicka + Spell Damage
World line ~ Magicka + Spell Damage

Fighters Guild ~ Stamina + Spell Damage
Werewolf ~ Stamina + Spell Damage

Dual, 2h, 1h+s, bow class (+ all light/heavy attacks) ~ Stamina + Weapon Damage

Resto/Destro class ~ Magicka + Weapon Damage

Hence classless medium armour stamina users = Weapons / Werewolf / Fighters Guild
Everyone else wears skirt and stick.

Crescent · November 2014

Yeah and for sorcerer it's worse because sorcerer skills are all damage skills (subpar at that), not utility skills.

A nightblade who's built for stamina gets a benefit from mark target or shades or surprise attack (armor debuff) or haste or leeching strikes (restores all resources). The nightblade and DK passive traits are also far more universal.

I mean, dark magic requires a target be affected by dark magic for the extra crit chance. What's that? Oh so only the ultimate or restraining prison (which costs a metric *** ton of magicka, so its use is prohibitive for a stamina build). The ultimate doesn't even work on many CC immune mobs.

Then you have blood magic, it's a paltry 5% hp return when you use dark magic spells very sparsely, especially since they cost so much magicka.

Hell, all sorcerer class skills cost way too much magicka, daedric mines and restraining prison are major offenders, but so are the pets when they die and you have to resummon even with the rebate passive returning magicka.

Sorcerer class skills are really, really bad outside bolt escape/lightning form/mage's fury/crit surge (which is still a worse igneous weapons). But since sorcerers have been using only those and the rest staves, pvpers have made sure to whine loudly enough so that the sorcerer class skills and trait lines will never be fixed.

GorraShatan · November 2014

Please don't make this change. Just give us a tool tip to let us know what stats affect what, that's all. Don't dumb down the whole game because the tool tips are incomplete.

Natjur · November 2014

Have you compared the base damage skills across the different classes? Sure some sorcerer skills do have higher casting costs, but the mana per damage of sorcerer are not bad compared to other classes.

GreyBrow · November 2014

da

morvegil · November 2014

orcs need a nerf anyways

Gorthax · November 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

GreyBrow wrote: »

"Hmm, well at least I broke the 1k DPS mark"

*DK Friend links DPS*

"So you're telling me that the archetype I want to play is so horrendously executed that I had to switch to something else at VR1 to complete content, and even though I did that, I'm still half as good as that guy? Screw that"

*Rolls DK, hit vr14, put on the same gear as my sorc, and hit 1.6k single target DPS the first time I walk into AA*

If you can't beat em, join em

lol clearly exaggerating. I hope ZOS sees through this QQ.

Don't tell me this crap about DKs getting 2k dps. Show me a 2k parse on on any final boss of AA, HR, or any main boss in vet DSA or SO.

1.6k single target on storm atro? Sorc can get that too, and if you don't know how, the problem isn't with sorc.

you do know not EVERYONE wants to play cookie cutter B.S. spamming crushing shock right? Sorcs have a plethora of skills to use.....the only one worth a damn is from the destro line lol hmmmm something seems not right with this.....

Nope! working as intended!

Tanis-Stormbinder · November 2014

Maybe a passive on the Storm Calling tree giving us a damage bonus much like the DK's Kindling and World of Flame.

PBpsy · November 2014

Gorthax wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

GreyBrow wrote: »

"Hmm, well at least I broke the 1k DPS mark"

*DK Friend links DPS*

"So you're telling me that the archetype I want to play is so horrendously executed that I had to switch to something else at VR1 to complete content, and even though I did that, I'm still half as good as that guy? Screw that"

*Rolls DK, hit vr14, put on the same gear as my sorc, and hit 1.6k single target DPS the first time I walk into AA*

If you can't beat em, join em

lol clearly exaggerating. I hope ZOS sees through this QQ.

Don't tell me this crap about DKs getting 2k dps. Show me a 2k parse on on any final boss of AA, HR, or any main boss in vet DSA or SO.

1.6k single target on storm atro? Sorc can get that too, and if you don't know how, the problem isn't with sorc.

you do know not EVERYONE wants to play cookie cutter B.S. spamming crushing shock right? Sorcs have a plethora of skills to use.....the only one worth a damn is from the destro line lol hmmmm something seems not right with this.....

Nope! working as intended!

Well that was the demand of the players. Everyone wanted to nerf resto damage bonus and spell power. They did it and now the only way to be a competitive end game magicka user dps is to go Crushing Shock on each all classes. Before that fully class based magicka builds were possible and competitive even though the Crushing Shock builds were better. Now not so much . Enjoy.

Only plausible thing that will change the rule of CS for magicka DPS is the Spell Crafting system when we will all have to get the exact same damn spell each and all classes if we want to be effective end game DPS.

NordJitsu · November 2014

DezIsDead wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone. While we aren’t quite ready to discuss all the changes and improvements going into Update 6, we can tell you that many of these changes will specifically address the concerns brought up in this thread. Our primary goal is that regardless of your class and build, you can feel like you can be competitive in the archetype you want to play as.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

If you really want every style of class to be competitive (even in PVP), then both the Sorc and NB need access to a self heal that does not require resto staff.

I knew this would be coming when they caved into the whiners and nerfed BE.

I actually thought it was cool that Sorcs and NBs didn't have a self heal while Temps and DKs did. Sorcs weren't supposed to stand and fight, they were supposed to run (the same way NBs can with Dark Cloak.)

Now they have no class based self-heal and no way to escape.

The overall balance "strategy" (quotations because I doubt they have one) is baffling.

It seems that they just respond to whatever is being complained about at the time on the forums.

I actually agree with you. They have catered to whoever complained the most. But at this point I'm willing to scream and cry in the forums to not have to reroll a third VR toon to be competitive in PvP and endgame. I quit the game for a month because I was so frustrated with NB at launch, came back rolled a sorc turned my NB into a crafter, and now sorc is the most broken class. Literally I only get into groups because of my negate. I can only out DPS people who really have no clue on how to play their toons. I am embarrassed that an average DK can out dps my sorc. It's frustrating as hell.

You're doing it wrong though.

You're posting numbers, facts, making rational arguments, ect. ZOS doesn't respond to that.

What you need to do is lie, exaggerate, troll anyone who disagrees with you, threaten to quit, start multiple threads about the same topics, ect.

That's what the posters did when they convinced ZOS to nerf BE.

See below for an example:

olemanwinter wrote: »

You lost me at "Sorcerer".

Since the removal of FC in pvp, everyone has to be sooo careful, except Sorc.

Bolt escape is so insanely OP.

All I encounter in PvP now is "Impulse, Impulse, Fire Ring, Impulse, Bats."

Not to mention your ability to pull everyone and anyone out of stealth through an entire field by just crisscross bolting across it 10 times in 5 seconds.

thesilverball_ESO · November 2014

Original post with pictures made me laugh my ass off. Awesome way to make a point and funny as hell. Thanks Gyudan.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · November 2014

Gorthax wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

GreyBrow wrote: »

"Hmm, well at least I broke the 1k DPS mark"

*DK Friend links DPS*

"So you're telling me that the archetype I want to play is so horrendously executed that I had to switch to something else at VR1 to complete content, and even though I did that, I'm still half as good as that guy? Screw that"

*Rolls DK, hit vr14, put on the same gear as my sorc, and hit 1.6k single target DPS the first time I walk into AA*

If you can't beat em, join em

lol clearly exaggerating. I hope ZOS sees through this QQ.

Don't tell me this crap about DKs getting 2k dps. Show me a 2k parse on on any final boss of AA, HR, or any main boss in vet DSA or SO.

1.6k single target on storm atro? Sorc can get that too, and if you don't know how, the problem isn't with sorc.

you do know not EVERYONE wants to play cookie cutter B.S. spamming crushing shock right? Sorcs have a plethora of skills to use.....the only one worth a damn is from the destro line lol hmmmm something seems not right with this.....

Nope! working as intended!

You understand Critical Surge is what makes the Crushing Shock weave so devastating for sorcs I hope. You will need Sotcapped Max Magic and Magic Regen, Inner Light and 50% Spell Critical to play

I can stand in 8 mobs with 3000hp and just Ring em' to death. That's not Impulse doing that, I'd never survive, it's Critical Surge returning vast amounts of health. That with Crushing Shock makes a very powerful fighting machine. Pop Hardened Ward and for fun Immovable (Streak is normal for me here) and go play in the trash.

More:

This is giving me ideas. I'm a PvE guy now so that's what I know.

One could run Unstoppable with a couple of bits of Heavy Armor, my sorc runs 5 Light 2 Medium now. I have lots of Spell Resist, etc and pushing those numbers further into the orange with 7 Light seemed a waste. So I could run 2 Heavy easy. Then with 10 secs on Unstoppable and using Vampire Drain once in a while, returns Health and Stamina, one could keep it up indefinitely. A sorc running Rings with the above in mind could pretty well go where she wanted and do as she pleased in anything outside of serious boss situations. Timing is of course critical, screw up, you die fast.

Of course 7 Heavy gives you 15 sec Unstoppable .....

seanvwolf · November 2014

Crescent wrote: »

Hell, all sorcerer class skills cost way too much magicka, daedric mines and restraining prison are major offenders, but so are the pets when they die and you have to resummon even with the rebate passive returning magicka.

Sorcerer class skills are really, really bad outside bolt escape/lightning form/mage's fury/crit surge (which is still a worse igneous weapons). But since sorcerers have been using only those and the rest staves, pvpers have made sure to whine loudly enough so that the sorcerer class skills and trait lines will never be fixed.

I have never depended on mage's fury, lightning form or bolt escape as a dw sorc. I can solo most world bosses just fine and that's enough for me until I get my teeth into trials. Trials build will likely go skirt and stick, but I don't want to solo that way, and I don't have to. Don't forget that crit surge heals you on crits and since I'm currently sitting on 71% crit chance, that gives my sorc more effective hit points than a heal spamming templar.

Gyudan · November 2014

If you followed this topic, I suggest you take a look at these suggestions for Sorcerer improvement.
Lots of good ideas to make sorcerers competitive with other classes.

Gorthax · November 2014

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

GreyBrow wrote: »

"Hmm, well at least I broke the 1k DPS mark"

*DK Friend links DPS*

"So you're telling me that the archetype I want to play is so horrendously executed that I had to switch to something else at VR1 to complete content, and even though I did that, I'm still half as good as that guy? Screw that"

*Rolls DK, hit vr14, put on the same gear as my sorc, and hit 1.6k single target DPS the first time I walk into AA*

If you can't beat em, join em

lol clearly exaggerating. I hope ZOS sees through this QQ.

Don't tell me this crap about DKs getting 2k dps. Show me a 2k parse on on any final boss of AA, HR, or any main boss in vet DSA or SO.

1.6k single target on storm atro? Sorc can get that too, and if you don't know how, the problem isn't with sorc.

you do know not EVERYONE wants to play cookie cutter B.S. spamming crushing shock right? Sorcs have a plethora of skills to use.....the only one worth a damn is from the destro line lol hmmmm something seems not right with this.....

Nope! working as intended!

You understand Critical Surge is what makes the Crushing Shock weave so devastating for sorcs I hope. You will need Sotcapped Max Magic and Magic Regen, Inner Light and 50% Spell Critical to play

I can stand in 8 mobs with 3000hp and just Ring em' to death. That's not Impulse doing that, I'd never survive, it's Critical Surge returning vast amounts of health. That with Crushing Shock makes a very powerful fighting machine. Pop Hardened Ward and for fun Immovable (Streak is normal for me here) and go play in the trash.

More:

This is giving me ideas. I'm a PvE guy now so that's what I know.

One could run Unstoppable with a couple of bits of Heavy Armor, my sorc runs 5 Light 2 Medium now. I have lots of Spell Resist, etc and pushing those numbers further into the orange with 7 Light seemed a waste. So I could run 2 Heavy easy. Then with 10 secs on Unstoppable and using Vampire Drain once in a while, returns Health and Stamina, one could keep it up indefinitely. A sorc running Rings with the above in mind could pretty well go where she wanted and do as she pleased in anything outside of serious boss situations. Timing is of course critical, screw up, you die fast.

Of course 7 Heavy gives you 15 sec Unstoppable .....

I do know what makes it so powerful :P Speaking of immovable, I wish they would make the armor skills 5 pieces to use to be honest ^_~ but hey that is neither here nor there and I would NOT want to open that can of worms up here on the forums lol got enough backlash because I want crushing shock to stop being reflected....

Aeratus · November 2014

seanvwolf wrote: »

Crescent wrote: »

Hell, all sorcerer class skills cost way too much magicka, daedric mines and restraining prison are major offenders, but so are the pets when they die and you have to resummon even with the rebate passive returning magicka.

Sorcerer class skills are really, really bad outside bolt escape/lightning form/mage's fury/crit surge (which is still a worse igneous weapons). But since sorcerers have been using only those and the rest staves, pvpers have made sure to whine loudly enough so that the sorcerer class skills and trait lines will never be fixed.

I have never depended on mage's fury, lightning form or bolt escape as a dw sorc. I can solo most world bosses just fine and that's enough for me until I get my teeth into trials. Trials build will likely go skirt and stick, but I don't want to solo that way, and I don't have to. Don't forget that crit surge heals you on crits and since I'm currently sitting on 71% crit chance, that gives my sorc more effective hit points than a heal spamming templar.

No, don't go stick and dress. Dual wield is likely to be better in terms of dps for a sorc.