Is ESO making a comeback?

Neizir · October 2014

I just read this article on MMMORPG.com talking about the state of ESO 6 months on (Even though it's been 7 months since release, but close enough):
mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/9069/How-to-Rebound.html
It talks about ESO's total revenue figures since release (not including box sales) and I myself have also talked about the rough subscription numbers this equates to in this thread (1.2 Million, give or take about 100k.)
It also talks about what Zenimax is doing to improve ESO. They've been honest about the missteps and the mistakes they made pre and post-launch and are working to fix those issues.

However, it also talks about ESO rebounding, making a comeback.

In their article, they said this:

"The team was honest about having made some missteps, reading certain situations badly, and underestimating player wants and needs in others. The problem with MMORPGs is they don’t often get second reviews or in-depth looks, and while MMORPG.com does do this, the game will still have those critical reviews and scores that, in my opinion, don’t reflect the game as it stands now. While some games trim their update schedules, ESO keeps delivering on both new features, promised post-launch work (like the new facial animations currently on test server and included in the upcoming update), and improvements promised to the community after launch."

"The game is flourishing in spite of the initial issues. In numbers some will surely debate, SuperData Research released its 2015 MMO market report that includes revenue to date in 2014. The Elder Scrolls Online came in in 11th place with $111 million in estimated revenue in player spending this year. That doesn’t seem to include box sales, either. Sure, numbers came from Bethesda in any official way, but there are other ways you can tell the game has been doing well. Even though there is megaserver technology, the game is populated. People run around playing at all times of the day and night. Things feel alive in Tamriel. Like Destiny, a lot of people bought the game and people still play it, but unlike Destiny, there’s a lot to do solo in ESO, and a large world to explore and play in. Sure, Bungie plans to add to its game, but the rebound ZeniMax has seen comes from rolling up its sleeves and digging in."

After reading the whole thing, I absolutely agree with it all. Imo, ESO is making a big comeback. The population seems to be growing based on the influx of players in the starting zones, and the amount of posts, especially on Reddit, about players coming back and coming for the first time, bringing positive reviews. The console launch will only add to this rebound.

But what do you all think? Is ESO making a comeback?

Lord_Draevan · October 2014

Ooohhh, I think the haters are gonna have a field day on this thread...

Expect lots of "ESO failed" or my favorite,"It failed so hard it's become a cautionary tale in the video game industry of how not to make a game".

But I do also hope that ESO is making a comeback. Lot of empty zones that could use some filling.

Gedalya · October 2014

Reality check; ESO was never on the decline or failing. Angry players during the first few months posting "Goodbye" threads and other related posts on these forums does not equal failure. The same is true for Guild attrition; for example I was in a Guild that largely switched to ArcheAge; but for every player like that more bought and played the ESO.

Nestor · October 2014

I never understood all the negative boo hoo hoo's that were flying around. The game was not perfect and had some issues. However, none of the issues were game breaking, just annoying. And, for the most part, they got fixed.

There are still some things I want to see improved, the terrible inventory philosophy and being able to group with someone no matter what the quest status is are two of them. But beyond that, just give me more content, that I can do solo or with a group as I see fit, and I will be happy.

Lord_Draevan · October 2014

Nestor wrote: »

I never understood all the negative boo hoo hoo's that were flying around. The game was not perfect and had some issues. However, none of the issues were game breaking, just annoying. And, for the most part, they got fixed.

There are still some things I want to see improved, the terrible inventory philosophy and being able to group with someone no matter what the quest status is are two of them. But beyond that, just give me more content, that I can do solo or with a group as I see fit, and I will be happy.

Every game launch and afterwards has doom-and-gloom people. Even Skyrim did, and I think we can all agree it turned out pretty well. It's just a very vocal minority, most people playing the game seem to enjoy it. Obviously, or else they wouldn't be playing.

Fun fact: to post on these forums, you need an active account. Ergo, you're paying. So doom-and-gloom people clearly don't find it as bad as they claim, else they wouldn't still be paying for it.

Nestor · October 2014

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Every game launch and afterwards has doom-and-gloom people. Even Skyrim did, and I think we can all agree it turned out pretty well. It's just a very vocal minority, most people playing the game seem to enjoy it. Obviously, or else they wouldn't be playing.

What I meant to say is I would read the doom and gloom and then ask myself, are they playing the same game as me?

Voodoo · October 2014

I don't think it was ever in trouble. only a fraction of players post (good or bad) posts in forums/reddit/facebook, ect ..and there's a ton of posts daily which tells me there's a fraction of player base actively posting ..which equals large numbers (minority posters and majority non posters).

ers101284b14_ESO · October 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vimZj8HW0Kg

booksmcread · October 2014

We live in an age of sensationalism. For some people, they feel making doom-and-gloom posts, fabricating misinformation, and stirring up drama makes them important or makes their voice heard. When you have an entertainment industry based on this (reality television) and a media culture that thrives on this (biggest storm in forty years, don't change your channel or you will die!!!), it's to be expected.

If you are able to keep your head about you and not get sucked into it all, you'll get a lot more sustainable and long term enjoyment out of the game.

Darklord_Tiberius · October 2014

Neizir wrote: »

I just read this article on MMMORPG.com talking about the state of ESO 6 months on (Even though it's been 7 months since release, but close enough):
mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/9069/How-to-Rebound.html
It talks about ESO's total revenue figures since release (not including box sales) and I myself have also talked about the rough subscription numbers this equates to in this thread (1.2 Million, give or take about 100k.)
It also talks about what Zenimax is doing to improve ESO. They've been honest about the missteps and the mistakes they made pre and post-launch and are working to fix those issues.

However, it also talks about ESO rebounding, making a comeback.

In their article, they said this:

"The team was honest about having made some missteps, reading certain situations badly, and underestimating player wants and needs in others. The problem with MMORPGs is they don’t often get second reviews or in-depth looks, and while MMORPG.com does do this, the game will still have those critical reviews and scores that, in my opinion, don’t reflect the game as it stands now. While some games trim their update schedules, ESO keeps delivering on both new features, promised post-launch work (like the new facial animations currently on test server and included in the upcoming update), and improvements promised to the community after launch."

"The game is flourishing in spite of the initial issues. In numbers some will surely debate, SuperData Research released its 2015 MMO market report that includes revenue to date in 2014. The Elder Scrolls Online came in in 11th place with $111 million in estimated revenue in player spending this year. That doesn’t seem to include box sales, either. Sure, numbers came from Bethesda in any official way, but there are other ways you can tell the game has been doing well. Even though there is megaserver technology, the game is populated. People run around playing at all times of the day and night. Things feel alive in Tamriel. Like Destiny, a lot of people bought the game and people still play it, but unlike Destiny, there’s a lot to do solo in ESO, and a large world to explore and play in. Sure, Bungie plans to add to its game, but the rebound ZeniMax has seen comes from rolling up its sleeves and digging in."

After reading the whole thing, I absolutely agree with it all. Imo, ESO is making a big comeback. The population seems to be growing based on the influx of players in the starting zones, and the amount of posts, especially on Reddit, about players coming back and coming for the first time, bringing positive reviews. The console launch will only add to this rebound.

But what do you all think? Is ESO making a comeback?

From the moment I first played ESO in beta, I loved this game and realized the potential for greatness. What many young people and players do not understand is that a game like WOW was not built in a day. Its going on 9 long years for that game and ESO is in its infant stage; it has that potential. I started playing MMO's over 12 years ago DAOC, Guild Wars, WOW, Vanguard, Warhammer Online, Guild Wars 2, SWTOR, LOTR and the list goes on. I have played all of these for over a year and some up to 6 years; some until they closed the servers down ie vanguard and warhammer. I have been through countless Beta's and launches and seen some pretty bad game releases; ESO is far from the worst lol.

With that being said, something I have noticed for years, since wotlk days in WOW and it became prominent during GW2 launch. The MMO player base is changing from what it was when I got into gaming. I guess it could best correlate to a crackhead looking for their next fix after a month or two of gaming. Those that quit the game in the first few months, the "RAGE" type are exactly the crowd I am referring too. These types of players actually do more harm than good for any game and honestly I do not want my gaming experience clouded with more trolls and basement warriors. I could care less if some of those people came back.

As far as ESO making a comeback, I would say it never needed a comeback. Yes they lost players initially, but from the recent Meta numbers released ESO is doing extremely well compared to many MMO's 6 months after launch. At this point, ESO will only grow and I think the fair question to ask is; How much do you think ESO will grow? With the updates planned up to 2.0, which logically would be an expansion type of content, I think ESO will grow exponentially. Everyday new people join this community, if you go to the starter zones during prime time or on the weekends, the proof is the abundant of players. With the changes to Veteran levels in 1.5, I think this will help bring even more people back to the game new and old. Grinding to VR14 was not an issue for me due to my gaming experience, but to an average gamer it would seem to be a bit intense. What they talked about during QuakeCon and the Guild Summit, Champion system, Justice system, Thieves Guild/Dark brotherhood, Spell crafting and Imperial City PvP/PvE zone; will only bolster the numbers for ESO. These updates will carry the game through another 6 months and at that point, I feel ESO will be set.

On a final note, I think ZOS is doing a much better job listening to the community which will only add to their success, as long as they continue to do so. They are taking a step in a positive direction. Once PvP is addressed, should be 1.6 (it was supposed to be 1.5) and the next few updates, it will give a good idea as to the future of this game.

Stonesthrow · October 2014

Nestor wrote: »

There are still some things I want to see improved, … being able to group with someone no matter what the quest status is are two of them.

^ This.

I love this game, I really do.

My only real gripe is in Craglorn and the way the quests are prohibiting people from helping out because of having to back-track through quest logs and memory to figure out if they have done it already so they don't suddenly get blocked from moving forward and continuing to help. It leans towards a "why bother" attitude from people who normally like to help out.

Why can't player #4 pass through the door to help players 1,2 and 3 finish the last stage of the quest line? He's already done it… and that makes sense how?

If they just remove the restrictions on quest progression in relation to group members, there would be a lot more people attempting to complete them.

I am a completion-oriented person. I want to do everything, get all achieves, etc… and the number of quests I have left in Crag is really starting to get to me, lol.

Shaggygaming · October 2014

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

Neizir wrote: »

I just read this article on MMMORPG.com talking about the state of ESO 6 months on (Even though it's been 7 months since release, but close enough):
mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/9069/How-to-Rebound.html
It talks about ESO's total revenue figures since release (not including box sales) and I myself have also talked about the rough subscription numbers this equates to in this thread (1.2 Million, give or take about 100k.)
It also talks about what Zenimax is doing to improve ESO. They've been honest about the missteps and the mistakes they made pre and post-launch and are working to fix those issues.

However, it also talks about ESO rebounding, making a comeback.

In their article, they said this:

"The team was honest about having made some missteps, reading certain situations badly, and underestimating player wants and needs in others. The problem with MMORPGs is they don’t often get second reviews or in-depth looks, and while MMORPG.com does do this, the game will still have those critical reviews and scores that, in my opinion, don’t reflect the game as it stands now. While some games trim their update schedules, ESO keeps delivering on both new features, promised post-launch work (like the new facial animations currently on test server and included in the upcoming update), and improvements promised to the community after launch."

"The game is flourishing in spite of the initial issues. In numbers some will surely debate, SuperData Research released its 2015 MMO market report that includes revenue to date in 2014. The Elder Scrolls Online came in in 11th place with $111 million in estimated revenue in player spending this year. That doesn’t seem to include box sales, either. Sure, numbers came from Bethesda in any official way, but there are other ways you can tell the game has been doing well. Even though there is megaserver technology, the game is populated. People run around playing at all times of the day and night. Things feel alive in Tamriel. Like Destiny, a lot of people bought the game and people still play it, but unlike Destiny, there’s a lot to do solo in ESO, and a large world to explore and play in. Sure, Bungie plans to add to its game, but the rebound ZeniMax has seen comes from rolling up its sleeves and digging in."

After reading the whole thing, I absolutely agree with it all. Imo, ESO is making a big comeback. The population seems to be growing based on the influx of players in the starting zones, and the amount of posts, especially on Reddit, about players coming back and coming for the first time, bringing positive reviews. The console launch will only add to this rebound.

But what do you all think? Is ESO making a comeback?

From the moment I first played ESO in beta, I loved this game and realized the potential for greatness. What many young people and players do not understand is that a game like WOW was not built in a day. Its going on 9 long years for that game and ESO is in its infant stage; it has that potential. I started playing MMO's over 12 years ago DAOC, Guild Wars, WOW, Vanguard, Warhammer Online, Guild Wars 2, SWTOR, LOTR and the list goes on. I have played all of these for over a year and some up to 6 years; some until they closed the servers down ie vanguard and warhammer. I have been through countless Beta's and launches and seen some pretty bad game releases; ESO is far from the worst lol.

With that being said, something I have noticed for years, since wotlk days in WOW and it became prominent during GW2 launch. The MMO player base is changing from what it was when I got into gaming. I guess it could best correlate to a crackhead looking for their next fix after a month or two of gaming. Those that quit the game in the first few months, the "RAGE" type are exactly the crowd I am referring too. These types of players actually do more harm than good for any game and honestly I do not want my gaming experience clouded with more trolls and basement warriors. I could care less if some of those people came back.

As far as ESO making a comeback, I would say it never needed a comeback. Yes they lost players initially, but from the recent Meta numbers released ESO is doing extremely well compared to many MMO's 6 months after launch. At this point, ESO will only grow and I think the fair question to ask is; How much do you think ESO will grow? With the updates planned up to 2.0, which logically would be an expansion type of content, I think ESO will grow exponentially. Everyday new people join this community, if you go to the starter zones during prime time or on the weekends, the proof is the abundant of players. With the changes to Veteran levels in 1.5, I think this will help bring even more people back to the game new and old. Grinding to VR14 was not an issue for me due to my gaming experience, but to an average gamer it would seem to be a bit intense. What they talked about during QuakeCon and the Guild Summit, Champion system, Justice system, Thieves Guild/Dark brotherhood, Spell crafting and Imperial City PvP/PvE zone; will only bolster the numbers for ESO. These updates will carry the game through another 6 months and at that point, I feel ESO will be set.

On a final note, I think ZOS is doing a much better job listening to the community which will only add to their success, as long as they continue to do so. They are taking a step in a positive direction. Once PvP is addressed, should be 1.6 (it was supposed to be 1.5) and the next few updates, it will give a good idea as to the future of this game.

Sorry to call you out, but if you label the people quitting in the beginning as "RAGE" quitters then you're top of the fan boy pool. The reason those people quit was because the game was released in a terrible state. They didn't learn from previous MMO's which could of easily pointed out what not to do.

First, if they had actual servers where you could see server population this game would be considered DEAD. They're not dead because they hide those numbers behind a megaserver, but you can easily get a rough estimate of how many people are playing the game. Take PVP for example, you know exactly how many players are on a locked server and they only have 8 campaigns or so? Then go to any VR zones past the first town and it is completely empty. Try finding a quest group for any of the VR content past the first town. Okay, maybe people are not questing? Go to Craglorn and see how many people are questing in Craglorn? None.. Maybe they don't want to quest there, fine, see how many people are raiding or grinding in Craglorn. It is always the same people no matter what account you login or character you login it is only a handful of people playing.

PVP is just horrible. People who play PVP have been complaining since the first month that the game design of AOE abilities is complete trash. Zenimax takes FOREVER to make any adjustments to PVP and these adjustments needed to be made on the first month. Zenimax knows people who Home on a server with all scrolls then guest on another server and keep their buffs is completely *** yet they have still not fixed it. The game is already past 6 months and they still cannot fix simple no brainer issues.

I really hope they turn the game around. When they do I will honestly come back and play it again as I really loved the game and the Elder Scrolls series, but let's be honest.. If they didn't have the Elder Scrolls name behind it this game would of closed. Not fail or made enough money to continue like SWTOR, the game would of closed.

MAIN QUEST LINE BROKEN? Seriously? You had a year of beta testers who told you about these issues and they're still broken when the game went live. THE MAIN QUEST LINE.

Lord_Draevan · October 2014

Adonikam wrote: »

MAIN QUEST LINE BROKEN? Seriously? You had a year of beta testers who told you about these issues and they're still broken when the game went live. THE MAIN QUEST LINE.

Was that an issue for everyone or just a small-moderate percentage? I remember playing through 2 characters in the first month and never ran accross an uncompletable main quest mission. Only problem I had was with Balreth's quest in Stonefalls in early access, and ZOS fixed in the next day and I was able to progress.

Lord_Draevan · October 2014

Kind of off-topic, but does anyone remember just how PACKED the starting zones were in early access? Holy crap, if player-to-player collision had been turned on no one would've been able to move :disagree:

Shaggygaming · October 2014

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Adonikam wrote: »

MAIN QUEST LINE BROKEN? Seriously? You had a year of beta testers who told you about these issues and they're still broken when the game went live. THE MAIN QUEST LINE.

Was that an issue for everyone or just a small-moderate percentage? I remember playing through 2 characters in the first month and never ran accross an uncompletable main quest mission. Only problem I had was with Balreth's quest in Stonefalls in early access, and ZOS fixed in the next day and I was able to progress.

Multiple issues with the quest line along the way. There was one part in the quest line where you had to jump off a pillar a certain way or you couldn't even get it. People were removing all their armor so they wouldn't have to repair. At least that part let you go past, but the Balreth quest you're talking about was broken for people several weeks after release. They put a fix in a few days after official launch, but it still didn't work for everyone.

Nestor · October 2014

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Kind of off-topic, but does anyone remember just how PACKED the starting zones were in early access? Holy crap, if player-to-player collision had been turned on no one would've been able to move :disagree:

The post you are referring to is a perfect example of blowing things all out of proportion. I searched here for Main Quest Bug and saw 2 threads from April, and that issue was fixed rather quickly. He also goes on to state the game is dead because there is a lack of players in the VR Instances, there has always been less players in the VR Instances. However I see enough to get people to show up for bosses and dolmens most evenings.

The poster is also not playing the game currently so anything he is reporting is historical, not current. One would expect the VR zones to have lower population after the first month or two as the content inhalers and race to the top level players went through. The rest of the players take their time and get to things when they get to things.

PvP has some issues and PvP will always have some issues. But those don't affect me, just the folks who are taking keeps. I believe they have a plan in place to fix this, and it would be nice if it was out sooner rather than later.

So the post your asking about is a perfect example of the doom and gloom threads we have been talking about. A small problem gets blown all out of proportion and is repeated by someone who is not playing the game.

Gyudan · October 2014

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Adonikam wrote: »

MAIN QUEST LINE BROKEN? Seriously? You had a year of beta testers who told you about these issues and they're still broken when the game went live. THE MAIN QUEST LINE.

Was that an issue for everyone or just a small-moderate percentage? I remember playing through 2 characters in the first month and never ran accross an uncompletable main quest mission. Only problem I had was with Balreth's quest in Stonefalls in early access, and ZOS fixed in the next day and I was able to progress.

Oh come on, all the early April veterans remember the time spent naked in the Coldharbour library trying to jump from a bookshelf to light the unreachable brazier.
Good memories

cyqa · October 2014

I was never a doom-and-gloom-er per say, but I did have a lot of friends who were very excited about this game, talked about it constantly in the year up to its release and participated in the beta weekends with me, who were amongst those that left within the first month and "Elder Scrolls Online" became anathema in their minds. They were pretty insistent that the game was dead to them and they would never re-subscribe, so they were the rage quitters personified (just without the drama posts on the forum).

Now, quite a few of them are considering re-subscribing because the promised updates have given them that light in their eye again. I think a lot of people will wait for things like the justice and champion systems, Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild, spellcrafting, etc. to be implemented but as these things get added to the game I can only foresee the subscriber base exponentially growing from its initial post-release decline.

I've personally been consistently enjoying the game and feel positive about the future of ESO.

Lord_Draevan · October 2014

Nestor wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Kind of off-topic, but does anyone remember just how PACKED the starting zones were in early access? Holy crap, if player-to-player collision had been turned on no one would've been able to move :disagree:

The post you are referring to is a perfect example of blowing things all out of proportion. I searched here for Main Quest Bug and saw 2 threads from April, and that issue was fixed rather quickly. He also goes on to state the game is dead because there is a lack of players in the VR Instances, there has always been less players in the VR Instances. However I see enough to get people to show up for bosses and dolmens most evenings.

The poster is also not playing the game currently so anything he is reporting is historical, not current. One would expect the VR zones to have lower population after the first month or two as the content inhalers and race to the top level players went through. The rest of the players take their time and get to things when they get to things.

PvP has some issues and PvP will always have some issues. But those don't affect me, just the folks who are taking keeps. I believe they have a plan in place to fix this, and it would be nice if it was out sooner rather than later.

So the post your asking about is a perfect example of the doom and gloom threads we have been talking about. A small problem gets blown all out of proportion and is repeated by someone who is not playing the game.

I think you quoted the wrong person :P

Lord_Draevan · October 2014

Gyudan wrote: »

Oh come on, all the early April veterans remember the time spent naked in the Coldharbour library trying to jump from a bookshelf to light the unreachable brazier.
Good memories

I remember going through that part without issue. I'd never heard of that issue until you mentioned it...

Nestor · October 2014

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

I think you quoted the wrong person :P

I meant to quote you as we were talking about the doom and gloom threads and blowing things out of proportion. So, I was talking to the theme of the thread you quoted, not the content you posted as a response to what you quoted. If that makes any sense.

Nox_Aeterna · October 2014

This is really just you bringing the same thing up from yesterdays discussion to a new thread OP.

I keep my opinion ,there is no reason whatsoever to trust there second hand newsites which claim to have said info that zen never gave , until zen itself comes foward and give the numbers , i will not believe it really.

In the end , to me atleast , if the numbers were good i believe zen would report them.

And yes , i would believe in the numbers zen gave, if they said "We have X active subs and Y are 1 month , Z are 3 months ..." i would say those were the real numbers.

KhajitFurTrader · October 2014

How can it be making a comeback when it never went away?

Kronuxx · October 2014

Dear ZOS, I truly enjoy your game. Please don't pay attention to the haters. They'll stick around for a bit, trying to have others join in on their foul comments for misery loves company, but soon they too must move on. For they will move on, some out of boredom, some will find a new hobby, and those who are the paradox of "spare the rod, spoil the child" will find a new thing to hate on.

So I say to you ZOS, continue what you're doing. I look forward to the changes coming with patch 1.5. But please, if there is one important distinction I hope you can keep in mind, please realize, that it shouldn't always be the case that the squeaky wheel gets the oil. I say this because those that hate on ESO are typically the most vocal (and a lot of times, the minority), as opposed to those who enjoy the game, who are usually busy playing the game rather than persistently posting "nerf" or hate comments. I also hope that you continue look at Reddit and Tamriel Foundry because the posts on those sites usually contain more constructive criticism compared to the forums here.

Razour · October 2014

I'm not fully bought in to the idea that ESO is "rebounding" just yet as that implies that the population is growing at an appreciable rate in the same way that the number of people quitting was appreciable.

Right now I think I would more characterize the current situation as a stabilization. It feels like the number of people leaving is slowing down and I've started to notice one or two people re-subbing; I've not really noticed anyone coming new to the game just yet but the overall population feels relatively stable now.

Kayo1 · October 2014

I hope so. I was actually surprised by it after coming back recently. Im still going through the learning process I guess, but having a blast which I honestly did not expect after my initial first month.

Even that controversial "more expensive edition" exclusive race they sold seems to not have encouraged any further paygate or similar MT-like content so im actually finding myself rooting for them now.

GG Zenimax. Keep up the good work.

morvegil · October 2014

this game will be F2P in a year

ers101284b14_ESO · October 2014

morvegil wrote: »

this game will be F2P in a year

Zorrashi · October 2014

morvegil wrote: »

this game will be F2P in a year

I was wondering when someone like this was going to show up....and for a second I thought we were going to get through the first page without one.

Armitas · October 2014

I think it is the incredible capacity of the ZOS team to rapidly grow and improve the game that is, and will continue to be, the cornerstone of ESO's success. Knowing how rocky things were at release I sometimes sit back in amazement on how far ESO has moved forward from that. There are still some familiar bugs that need fixing but they will soon be swept away in the tidal waves of improvement that have been pouring out since release.

bedlom · October 2014

As far as I can tell it never went away lol