Is ESO making a comeback?

Gix

Nerouyn wrote: »

Gix wrote: »

You like Elder Scrolls games? Guess what? Bethesda is notorious for "abandoning" games once they deem them playable enough after a few patches.

I've always found that one curious.

My theory - because I generally don't assume idiocy as the culprit despite its terrifying prevalence - is this is a deliberate PR strategy to encourage modding and the modding community.

It's more like they take advantage that they have such robust (relatively speaking) modding tools and a strong modding community to allow themselves to move on to the next project.

I mean, making an Elder Scrolls Game takes Bethesda 4 years to make. That's a HUGE investment that doesn't really give them much profit after the initial release (+ expansions). It's one of the reasons why Bethesda also publishes games; because 1 game every 4 years isn't a "smart move" from a business standpoint. So they patch it up as best as they can before letting it go.

It's both a refreshing and a sad thing to do. On one hand you're abandoning one of your babies that you spent 4 years to make and, on the other, you get to work on something new. In their cases their new project is more likely another TES game but the visual kit and main concepts are different.

They take what they've learned and reapply them to a blank slate instead of trying to squeeze it in current (read: 4-years old) systems / mechanics.

Neizir

I can be anywhere, at any time, @Lord_Draevan.

Gyudan

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

I understand the issues and that people left. But with that said, within the next 3-4 months, by patch 1.6, this will be a majorly different game than it was when it released.

The Justice, Champion, Spell Crafting, and overall class systems will have been re-done in major ways. Don't get me wrong, 1.5 looks great, but 1.6 looks like where the rubber is really going to meet the road. Dead abilities and worthless passives will be dragged out back and shot. Another VR Dungeon will be likely and by the everything will scale to the group leader.

There's no doubt that ZOS has stuck to their timeline and has been both aggressive in releasing content and conservative in tweaking class imbalances.

So it's going to be interesting to watch and see if the ES IP and the further progression towards being more of an ES game than a MMO with the ES IP plastered onto it will in fact attract people who played previous ES games.

Easy there. Not all of those changes are sure to make it into 1.6
The upcoming content looks good though

Grunim

Workerdroid7 wrote: »

After having ignored MMOs for years, I specifically chose ESO as my first ever MMO experience because I'd thoroughly enjoyed all the previous Elder Scrolls games. I did this about 6 weeks ago, so I'm definitely new to the game (and the genre)- I've not reached Veteran levels, and I've not yet tried my hand at PvP. In some ways, the fact that this is my first MMO means I don't necessarily know enough to judge it's "worth", and in some ways it means I don't have any "baggage" either.
-
I bought the game without really reading reviews, started downloading the updates/patches... and started reading reviews while I waited for the updates to complete. I rapidly became disheartened, and was convinced I'd wasted my money buying a rubbish game. By the time the game had updated and was ready to play, I was almost too put off by the reviews to bother. I convinced myself that I might as well play an hour or two since I've spent money and many hours patching the game.... and so it began.

What an awesome game! Yes, there are issues (and I've not even experienced the problems most people are talking about: PVP, Craglorn, Vet levels etc), but this is an amazingly fun game to play. Maybe my opinion will be different 6 months from now, but at this exact point in time I am delighted that all the reviews I read were completely wrong!

Apart from the, so far, compelling story line, I've begun to enjoy the group gameplay - doing Dolmens and Group Bosses, Delves and Group Dungeons (well, I've only done Spindleclutch actually) has been a lot more interesting than I expected it to be. I look forward to exploring the group dynamics more in the coming months, although the solo content is still my primary interest right now. I can actually see the point of MMOs... and am actively anticipating more of this kind of experience.

Really, I just intended to say that my experience of the game is far more positive than I expected after reading the reviews. But, I am currently completely enthralled by this game... it as exceeded my expectations and I find it hard not to get overly effusive. And, judging by the interactions I've has with other "noobs" like myself in the lower levels, I am not alone. I have no idea how many more experienced players have left the game, but there are plenty of newer players well on the way to becoming experienced players.... we are on the way, and we are having fun with this game

@Workerdroid7 I very much enjoyed reading your comment and wanted to let you know that there is a sizable contingent of experienced long time MMO players who continue to play ESO and plan to for quite some time. Heck, I started off playing in the closed beta in July 2013 and I continue to be interested enough in this game to continue being a daily player.

I love how for so many folks this is their first or second MMO and many of us who have been playing these sort of games for awhile are more than willing to teach folks the ropes.

brandon

seancaputo_ESO wrote: »

Game Rocks -- The people that are hating on ESO, are actually Hating because there is no other better game out there. They are so full of hate, because they want the game to be exactly like they want it or perceived it was sold to them as -- but lack the skill to even create their own game -- they just spew B.S.

The facts are Wow and ESO are you main choices for MMO's - Or you can play crappy free to play Las Vegas style --hoping you get your gear, but you just end up buying in the end. RIFT... LOL

or

You can create your own game -- oppps

or

Stop paying and move on.... ( I have done that with Rift, Star Wars, Shelved GW1, 2 - Lotro, Secret World, DDO, Shelved COD Series, Ravens Shield, == the list goes on.... never could get passed the ultra Lame graphics of WoW --

BTW: As Wildstar and all the other games go down the toilet accept for Wow.... ESO keeps moving forward.

@seancaputo_ESO
Is wildstar really failing? I haven't kept much track of it, but i remember that it was pretty popular last i heard.

Sablemane

Just leveled my 7th character to 40, and I'm about to switch to my eighth to get her from 36 to 40. I have loved just about every moment of my game time. Sure, there were a handful of issues along the way. All were fixed in due time, and I still get excited to play when I hear the intro music. I understand many are frustrated at the veteran ranks, and PvP. From my perspective you did it wrong

ers101284b14_ESO

brandon wrote: »

seancaputo_ESO wrote: »

Game Rocks -- The people that are hating on ESO, are actually Hating because there is no other better game out there. They are so full of hate, because they want the game to be exactly like they want it or perceived it was sold to them as -- but lack the skill to even create their own game -- they just spew B.S.

The facts are Wow and ESO are you main choices for MMO's - Or you can play crappy free to play Las Vegas style --hoping you get your gear, but you just end up buying in the end. RIFT... LOL

or

You can create your own game -- oppps

or

Stop paying and move on.... ( I have done that with Rift, Star Wars, Shelved GW1, 2 - Lotro, Secret World, DDO, Shelved COD Series, Ravens Shield, == the list goes on.... never could get passed the ultra Lame graphics of WoW --

BTW: As Wildstar and all the other games go down the toilet accept for Wow.... ESO keeps moving forward.

@seancaputo_ESO
Is wildstar really failing? I haven't kept much track of it, but i remember that it was pretty popular last i heard.

its not doing well no. But they are a smaller team than ESO and need less subs and money so they can afford to not have hardly any players and still make a profit. I don't think they are shutting down any time soon but they seem to be in panic mode.

brandon

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

brandon wrote: »

seancaputo_ESO wrote: »

Game Rocks -- The people that are hating on ESO, are actually Hating because there is no other better game out there. They are so full of hate, because they want the game to be exactly like they want it or perceived it was sold to them as -- but lack the skill to even create their own game -- they just spew B.S.

The facts are Wow and ESO are you main choices for MMO's - Or you can play crappy free to play Las Vegas style --hoping you get your gear, but you just end up buying in the end. RIFT... LOL

or

You can create your own game -- oppps

or

Stop paying and move on.... ( I have done that with Rift, Star Wars, Shelved GW1, 2 - Lotro, Secret World, DDO, Shelved COD Series, Ravens Shield, == the list goes on.... never could get passed the ultra Lame graphics of WoW --

BTW: As Wildstar and all the other games go down the toilet accept for Wow.... ESO keeps moving forward.

@seancaputo_ESO
Is wildstar really failing? I haven't kept much track of it, but i remember that it was pretty popular last i heard.

its not doing well no. But they are a smaller team than ESO and need less subs and money so they can afford to not have hardly any players and still make a profit. I don't think they are shutting down any time soon but they seem to be in panic mode.

Thanks!

Preyfar

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Preyfar wrote: »

2) People wanted Elder Scrolls 6, and this is not what they got. Or thought they did

Oh Lord, I just remembered all the winning when ESO was announced and lots of people were saying "No, make TES VI, not an MMO", and people didn't realise ZOS and Bethesda are two different companies and the existence of ESO does not it any way, shape or form affect the release date of TES IV. Even today some people don't know that and whine about it -_-

Full disclosure: I was one of those people. And it wasn't just that they were making Elder Scrolls Online rather than a "proper" sequel, but making Elder Scrolls an online game in general seemed like a ridiculous notion. It just didn't seem like the one title/franchise that needed to go online.

I was wrong. Never been more wrong about something. I sat down, gave Elder Scrolls a chance... and, uh...

http://raptr.com/Preyfar/games

550+ hours later... yeah, I'm gonna go with "I love this game". I had to just re-adjust my expectations, and when I did, well, damn!

Note: I quoted proper because, face it, if you've played all the Elder Scrolls games they have almost nothing in common except the Lore, they amazing open world environments and the fact the games are 20% bugs, 80% mind blowing immersion.

I love Bethesda, but they've got a track record (both good and bad!). And thankfully, ZOS (just like Bethesda) has proven beyond dedicated to making things right and really shining the game into something fantastic. I can't think of many companies that would outright declare Tabula Rasa on the endgame just a few months end.

Nerouyn

Gix wrote: »

It's more like they take advantage that they have such robust (relatively speaking) modding tools and a strong modding community to allow themselves to move on to the next project.

I mean, making an Elder Scrolls Game takes Bethesda 4 years to make. That's a HUGE investment that doesn't really give them much profit after the initial release (+ expansions). It's one of the reasons why Bethesda also publishes games; because 1 game every 4 years isn't a "smart move" from a business standpoint. So they patch it up as best as they can before letting it go.

It's both a refreshing and a sad thing to do. On one hand you're abandoning one of your babies that you spent 4 years to make and, on the other, you get to work on something new. In their cases their new project is more likely another TES game but the visual kit and main concepts are different.

They take what they've learned and reapply them to a blank slate instead of trying to squeeze it in current (read: 4-years old) systems / mechanics.

I appreciate your taking the time to come up with and lay out this theory but we know for a fact that it's horribly wrong.

Skyrim's sales were phenomenal - grossing well over $600 million by the end of 2011, and it didn't stop selling then. As a private company can we put a definite number on their profits? No. But unless you want to suggest they spent in excess of $600 million making the game, then their profits were ungodly. I reckon even given the success of Oblivion, it's unlikely they spent more than $100 million on development.

They absolutely could have afforded to pay staff fix all of those bugs in an official patch - especially as I pointed out much of that work had already been done as part of the community mod. And it's not exactly best industry practice to leave your game riddled with known bugs.

People who make that much money - generally not idiots. So I think my theory is sound.

egosumacunnus

Call me when the 'Comeback' has the justice system, Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild instead of generic VR content.

seanvwolf

Grunim wrote: »

@Workerdroid7 I very much enjoyed reading your comment and wanted to let you know that there is a sizable contingent of experienced long time MMO players who continue to play ESO and plan to for quite some time. Heck, I started off playing in the closed beta in July 2013 and I continue to be interested enough in this game to continue being a daily player.

I love how for so many folks this is their first or second MMO and many of us who have been playing these sort of games for awhile are more than willing to teach folks the ropes.

I have enjoyed showing the ropes to even seasoned MMO players who are either unfamiliar with just how different ESO is or are bringing in their sour experiences from some other triple-A titles.

Rylana

Gyudan wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Adonikam wrote: »

MAIN QUEST LINE BROKEN? Seriously? You had a year of beta testers who told you about these issues and they're still broken when the game went live. THE MAIN QUEST LINE.

Was that an issue for everyone or just a small-moderate percentage? I remember playing through 2 characters in the first month and never ran accross an uncompletable main quest mission. Only problem I had was with Balreth's quest in Stonefalls in early access, and ZOS fixed in the next day and I was able to progress.

Oh come on, all the early April veterans remember the time spent naked in the Coldharbour library trying to jump from a bookshelf to light the unreachable brazier.
Good memories

Oh christ, do not remind me of that. I fell off that thing over 20 times to light it.

Once I finally did I vowed to never ever roll a new toon.

Then they fixed it, yay.

seanvwolf

Gyudan wrote: »

Oh come on, all the early April veterans remember the time spent naked in the Coldharbour library trying to jump from a bookshelf to light the unreachable brazier.
Good memories

I remember those days. However, I should say that I actually ended up standing on the edge of the platform, between the bookshelf and edge and was able to light the brazier normally. It was just a ridiculously tight line between success and death.

Heishi

Preyfar wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Preyfar wrote: »

2) People wanted Elder Scrolls 6, and this is not what they got. Or thought they did

Oh Lord, I just remembered all the winning when ESO was announced and lots of people were saying "No, make TES VI, not an MMO", and people didn't realise ZOS and Bethesda are two different companies and the existence of ESO does not it any way, shape or form affect the release date of TES IV. Even today some people don't know that and whine about it -_-

Full disclosure: I was one of those people. And it wasn't just that they were making Elder Scrolls Online rather than a "proper" sequel, but making Elder Scrolls an online game in general seemed like a ridiculous notion. It just didn't seem like the one title/franchise that needed to go online.

I was wrong. Never been more wrong about something. I sat down, gave Elder Scrolls a chance... and, uh...

http://raptr.com/Preyfar/games

550+ hours later... yeah, I'm gonna go with "I love this game". I had to just re-adjust my expectations, and when I did, well, damn!

Note: I quoted proper because, face it, if you've played all the Elder Scrolls games they have almost nothing in common except the Lore, they amazing open world environments and the fact the games are 20% bugs, 80% mind blowing immersion.

I love Bethesda, but they've got a track record (both good and bad!). And thankfully, ZOS (just like Bethesda) has proven beyond dedicated to making things right and really shining the game into something fantastic. I can't think of many companies that would outright declare Tabula Rasa on the endgame just a few months end.

I agree with this. Really ESO's player population is following the same rollercoaster course almost every major MMO goes through. Lots of excited people at launch. People start leaving over a variety of reason (burn through all the content in 2 weeks and get bored, irritated by bugs, just going trial days and don't renew, and so on). Then major content patches come and people come back and some new people who were waiting for the "initial bugs" to get hammered out join up. These burnout or get bored and such and leave. Then more content and people come. Certain things like putting it on steam also bolster these numbers.

Also I see your 550+ hours on raptr there and raise you 600 I have 1100+ haha

http://raptr.com/Heishi_x/games

Skylandra

ESO is not a bad game - and I think it will get better and better as the years go by.

Sure Zeni have made some mistakes - and so have we the users.

I feel they have changed the gear and game skill's too many times in the short time the game has been live... I have done 3 gear grinds in 6 months and felt no sooner did I get my toons to the way I wanted them I had to change it all again. I never got time to just enjoy what I had.

We petitioned like crazy for camps to be fixed... now that they have been I feel the overall impact on PvP to be a negative.

Animation cancelling is an issue - as an unintended side effect of prioritisation, content should not be being made that requires it - I have yet to see a report of players completing AA without it. It annoys me because I have friends I cant enjoy the content with because they
a) Don't have the right build
b) Don't have the skill to do it properly
c) Refuse to do it as it breaks immersion for them.

Crafting is simple - while not an issue - it is not a reason to keep playing ESO. Other MMO's have had much better crafting systems that I felt were a far more important part of the game.

I think ESO will be around for a long time - could it be better - sure.
I'll be back with the champion system - I have a love hate relationship with ESO, but I am not done yet.

infraction2008b16_ESO

JKorr wrote: »

Best part; he isn't playing the game. He's still here to post old information, spread misinformation and raise the negativity on the forums, but he isn't playing the game.

Remove the tin foil hat, that was an old bug with beta players that was fixed.

Valen_Byte

I like ESO

DanielMaxwell

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

DragonWitch wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Fun fact: to post on these forums, you need an active account.

No you don't...

If you're able to, you're the exception. I had my subscription cancelled until two weeks ago and when I tried to sign in I was told "Permission Denied". When I re-subscribed, I was able to sign in.

EDIT: If you have game time remaining but no active subscription, you can post. Once you run out, you get the "Permission Denied" message when you try to sign in.

I canceled my sub at the end of the early access period and recieved a full refund of my purchase at that time , and for several months I was able to log in and post on these forums . I purchased a box edition of the game (from walmart that had the explorers pack) and updated to the digital imperial edition on 7-26-2014 .

from 4-9-2014 to 7-26-2014 I was able to post on these forums without having an active account .

I was one of the beta stress testers and i still encounter the same lag issues (combat actions not fireing when i have sufficient resources , and the going off several seconds later, lockpicking chests and not getting the wiggle animation till after I pass the lock point causing the lockpick to break or the attempt to fail ) , interactive objects not being usable either the NPC or actual object, failure of quests completion points to show as useable (the "E" button control not showing up).

yes Zeni has fixed many things but they have not released any numbers that support the OP's post or conclusions , nor have they released any numbers that support the opposing views either .

Louis

i quit for a few months because afew of my friends left and most quests were bugging 6 months ago upon release, now as a player coming back to ESO i feel that alot of things has changed slowly over time and it will get better from here on. IMO

pecheckler

Please make ESO cross platform so we don't end up with an even more empty world then we have now. Segregating the population is only going to negatively affect the already bad population problems.

Elsonso

pecheckler wrote: »

Please make ESO cross platform so we don't end up with an even more empty world then we have now. Segregating the population is only going to negatively affect the already bad population problems.

The last anyone heard, and this was a long time ago, the consoles were to be separate from each other and PC/Mac. The PC/Mac crowd are the only ones that get to co-mingle, not that the PC people want to hang out with the mangy Mac people.

I would like it if they merged them all together at some point. I would like them to plan for it, even if they don't think they will never be doing it. First step will be unique character names across all megaservers. Blizzard did not plan ahead in this respect. ZOS can learn from them.

I can't speak for the Veteran areas, and it is unlikely that I will ever experience them first hand, but the main quest leveling areas are quite populated.

Lord_Draevan

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

I canceled my sub at the end of the early access period and recieved a full refund of my purchase at that time , and for several months I was able to log in and post on these forums . I purchased a box edition of the game (from walmart that had the explorers pack) and updated to the digital imperial edition on 7-26-2014 .

from 4-9-2014 to 7-26-2014 I was able to post on these forums without having an active account .

I was one of the beta stress testers and i still encounter the same lag issues (combat actions not fireing when i have sufficient resources , and the going off several seconds later, lockpicking chests and not getting the wiggle animation till after I pass the lock point causing the lockpick to break or the attempt to fail ) , interactive objects not being usable either the NPC or actual object, failure of quests completion points to show as useable (the "E" button control not showing up).

yes Zeni has fixed many things but they have not released any numbers that support the OP's post or conclusions , nor have they released any numbers that support the opposing views either .

You're the exception to the rule then, cause ZOS themselves said you're not supposed to be able to post or even log in without an active account or game-time left.

TehMagnus

Except the 1.2Million subs is based on Maths that came out of someone with the math knowledge/understanding of a 5y/o.

Crumpy

seancaputo_ESO wrote: »

Game Rocks -- The people that are hating on ESO, are actually Hating because there is no other better game out there. They are so full of hate, because they want the game to be exactly like they want it or perceived it was sold to them as -- but lack the skill to even create their own game -- they just spew B.S.

The facts are Wow and ESO are you main choices for MMO's - Or you can play crappy free to play Las Vegas style --hoping you get your gear, but you just end up buying in the end. RIFT... LOL

or

You can create your own game -- oppps

or

Stop paying and move on.... ( I have done that with Rift, Star Wars, Shelved GW1, 2 - Lotro, Secret World, DDO, Shelved COD Series, Ravens Shield, == the list goes on.... never could get passed the ultra Lame graphics of WoW --

BTW: As Wildstar and all the other games go down the toilet accept for Wow.... ESO keeps moving forward.

This made me laugh

zaria

Nerouyn wrote: »

Gix wrote: »

You like Elder Scrolls games? Guess what? Bethesda is notorious for "abandoning" games once they deem them playable enough after a few patches.

I've always found that one curious.

My theory - because I generally don't assume idiocy as the culprit despite its terrifying prevalence - is this is a deliberate PR strategy to encourage modding and the modding community.

It doesn't make much sense otherwise especially when community bug fix mods exist which theoretically the developer could either adopt wholesale or at least use to drastically speed up the process.

As a new player I can't speak to bug fixing speed but their CS are, if not always able to immediately fix a problem, polite, professional and helpful. That's such a breath of fresh air after the last few games I played where my experience with CS has ranged from comical to criminal (literally). I had to threaten legal action to get a bugged character fixed after waiting almost a year.

Do they abandon many games? Morrowind got two expansions, Oblivion a lot of stuff of various size including the expansion. Fallout got 5 DLC some who was pretty large.
Skyrim is the only example, high problem it was abandoned because they was unable to get more expansions to run on consoles. PS3 had problems from the start.
Game sold very well, looks like the DLC was also well received, they had time, why should they not make more DLC unless the 512 MB memory limit hit them hard.

Cherryblossom

Nestor wrote: »

The post you are referring to is a perfect example of blowing things all out of proportion. I searched here for Main Quest Bug and saw 2 threads from April, and that issue was fixed rather quickly.

I don't think you looked hard enough! There were more bugged quests than working quests back in April. For the most part the bugs were caused by server load. But there were many main faction based quest lines which were also bugged on top of the naked jumping Cold harbour bug.
There are still the weapon swap and ability failure bugs, most people have had occassion where pressing E to get through a door or interact fails.
So it's wrong to say that it's being blown out of proportion!
This game had quite simply an awful game launch, but the game has a lot of promise which is why many have stuck with it.
But I think the game is seriously lacking in end game and PVP, so once people hit Veteran they move back to what they were playing before.

I like the game otherwise I wouldn't be here, but I'm not stupid enough to pretend everything is rosey and there are not serious issues.

and to point this out here's one which still exists
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/125494/broken-quest-the-endless-war-coldharbour#latest

Ranger

lol

The only reason WoW is popular is because it runs on crap computers and its sold at WalMart....were those people bought they're crap computers.

JKorr

infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Best part; he isn't playing the game. He's still here to post old information, spread misinformation and raise the negativity on the forums, but he isn't playing the game.

Remove the tin foil hat, that was an old bug with beta players that was fixed.

Right. It was fixed. So what is being accomplished by complaining about it as though its still an issue? Which you would know if you were playing the game.
The only reason to continue harping on an issue that isn't an issue anymore is because you want to complain about the game. Your reason for doing that is your own.

No tinfoil hat needed.

If I think a game is bad, riddled with bugs, has devs that don't care, aren't listening and aren't patching anything, I LEAVE. I don't hang around the game's forums complaining about problems that have already been patched.

zaria

Ranger wrote: »

lol

The only reason WoW is popular is because it runs on crap computers and its sold at WalMart....were those people bought they're crap computers.

WOW came at the right time and as you say everybody could play it, was also the time where decent Internet became common.

it also managed to get so many players that everybody knew somebody playing it and talked about it, this created an snowball effect.
Don't think any MMO will reach 12 million again, at least not in the west.
Marked is to fragmented.