What do you think of the PTS change of flaming oil?

RedTalon · October 2014

Glory to the zergs how it should be!

ZOS_AlanG · October 2014

This thread is getting rather heated, and a side discussion within it has been removed. Not all of the posts were problematic, but it made more sense to remove it in its entirety.

We welcome feedback of this change, and debate and disagreement are fine. However please keep any criticism, particularly of other's opinions, civil and constructive.

If anyone feels that posts on the forums are inappropriate please report them and then do not respond, as that just prolongs (and potentially escalates) the issue.

Braidas · October 2014

nvm

Siliconhobbit_ESO · October 2014

It's a good change and I support it.

Also, it causes more tears and I live off of your tears...

*cackles*

Cherryblossom · October 2014

Malveria wrote: »

And as for the people who say 'You shouldn't be able to pour oil at your feet and survive', we stand in our own AOE's. Our friendlies stand in it. We jump off cliffs. We shoot fire from large sticks. Come on. What a redundant argument. Unless you're willing to turn friendly fire on everything (including single target and even buffs and debuffs), that is pointless.

I agree oil should stay (may be add some of the ideas of less damage on ground and different AOE,
On PTS the Zergs are not big enough to warrant the use of OIL most can be countered by better tactics, so this is not being used much in these situations.

But I love the idea of Friendly fire, that would effectively completely stop Zerg Balls. It would however mean there would only be DK and Ganking NB

Junipus · October 2014

Regardless of people's view and opinions, the change is coming.

Even if we all complain about it and go into the PTS and do the same, I don't know of a single change to the game that didn't make it out of PTS and into the live server.

@ZOS_AlanG, I would recommend you take this thread back to the devs and their managers and tell them that this change will be the last straw for many many players who have hung on despite ZOS' continued stupidity and ineptitude.

They won't listen of course, but for once do the right thing you know in your heart to be true.

Komma · October 2014

Its the right choice regardless of whether people leave or not. They do however need to fix other things with this change. They have mostly been discussed in this thread. Pouring oil from the ground was and has always been the dumbest thing I have ever seen.

michaelb14a_ESO2 · October 2014

Teargrants wrote: »

It's a flaming load of crap. It will be impossible to defend the back flag from impulse groups unless you have your own impulse blob, and we all love that ability locking lag, right?

Oils in resource towers hasn't really been a problem for months, even pugs know how to storm the towers and take them out now. I have not seen a single tower camp last more than 60 seconds after taking the resource in quite a while.

Oil farms in keep towers was cheesy, but it's not game breaking, and stopping it isn't worth losing the ability to defend the back flags.

If ZOS would change flags so that they couldn't be capped when the NPCs are still alive on them and/or a number of defenders, I might have been ok with this.

Uhhh, news flash: Impulse bombsquads that you're talking about don't die from oil. They heal and/or purge over it so....

Trust me, I hate them as much as you too, but the cognitive dissonance in this thread is overwhelming.

Oil is used to wipe less experienced players and PUGs that DON'T bunch together and zerg/spam and squad. Oil is actually what makes taking a defended keep with any other method other than zerging... close to impossible.

tl;dr Oil is NOT a counter to zergs, zergs are the counter to oil.

michaelb14a_ESO2 · October 2014

Sypherpkub17_ESO wrote: »

Tell me how to set up an effective meat bag inside the flag room. Never seen that one before.

It called a Foulness (Disease) enchant

ThyIronFist · October 2014

At the moment? Bad change.

BUT

The current gameplay in PvP still mainly consists of zergballing and so long as this crap continues to exist, then I'm afraid this change will only cater to the zergballing monkeys that ruin the game every day for others. With this change, there is no way of defending the flags of a keep. Can't place oil anywhere now except on the walls.... might as well just let your enemies take the keep and don't even bother defending.

This is a good change, but so long as the mentality of zerging in this game continues to exist, I'm afraid it will only make the impulse zerg monkeys happy, cause there is one less thing they will have to worry about - and that is oil pots.

RIP oil pots 2014-2014

Junipus · October 2014

michaelb14a_ESO2 wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

It's a flaming load of crap. It will be impossible to defend the back flag from impulse groups unless you have your own impulse blob, and we all love that ability locking lag, right?

Oils in resource towers hasn't really been a problem for months, even pugs know how to storm the towers and take them out now. I have not seen a single tower camp last more than 60 seconds after taking the resource in quite a while.

Oil farms in keep towers was cheesy, but it's not game breaking, and stopping it isn't worth losing the ability to defend the back flags.

If ZOS would change flags so that they couldn't be capped when the NPCs are still alive on them and/or a number of defenders, I might have been ok with this.

Uhhh, news flash: Impulse bombsquads that you're talking about don't die from oil. They heal and/or purge over it so....

Trust me, I hate them as much as you too, but the cognitive dissonance in this thread is overwhelming.

Oil is used to wipe less experienced players and PUGs that DON'T bunch together and zerg/spam and squad. Oil is actually what makes taking a defended keep with any other method other than zerging... close to impossible. [/b
]

tl;dr Oil is NOT a counter to zergs, zergs are the counter to oil.

Zergs can heal/purge through oil, but the initial hit of upto 800 from each oil, when combined with 4 oils in a flag room can seriously dent a zerg's health. Finish it off with ultimate dumps and AoEs and the zerg melts. I've seen it many a time happen.

The issue still remains that without an unsilenced AoE with large initial damage and high AoE cap, zerg balls will have impunity on flags if they keep silences going for as long as they need to.

michaelb14a_ESO2 · October 2014

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

michaelb14a_ESO2 wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

It's a flaming load of crap. It will be impossible to defend the back flag from impulse groups unless you have your own impulse blob, and we all love that ability locking lag, right?

Oils in resource towers hasn't really been a problem for months, even pugs know how to storm the towers and take them out now. I have not seen a single tower camp last more than 60 seconds after taking the resource in quite a while.

Oil farms in keep towers was cheesy, but it's not game breaking, and stopping it isn't worth losing the ability to defend the back flags.

If ZOS would change flags so that they couldn't be capped when the NPCs are still alive on them and/or a number of defenders, I might have been ok with this.

Uhhh, news flash: Impulse bombsquads that you're talking about don't die from oil. They heal and/or purge over it so....

Trust me, I hate them as much as you too, but the cognitive dissonance in this thread is overwhelming.

Oil is used to wipe less experienced players and PUGs that DON'T bunch together and zerg/spam and squad. Oil is actually what makes taking a defended keep with any other method other than zerging... close to impossible. [/b
]

tl;dr Oil is NOT a counter to zergs, zergs are the counter to oil.

Zergs can heal/purge through oil, but the initial hit of upto 800 from each oil, when combined with 4 oils in a flag room can seriously dent a zerg's health. Finish it off with ultimate dumps and AoEs and the zerg melts. I've seen it many a time happen.

The issue still remains that without an unsilenced AoE with large initial damage and high AoE cap, zerg balls will have impunity on flags if they keep silences going for as long as they need to.

Yes a dent. Zergs wipe for one reason, because they fragment and don't stay together and THIS is when oil is effective. Oil demolishes the single file and loose knit cells of players (the outer fragments of the zerg if you will)

A Zerg that doesn't stay together and cluster is uncoordinated is just a failed zerg... PERIOD. Just b/c oils happen to wipe a failed zerg doesn't mean it's what counters a zerg. You can just as easily counter a *failed* and loose zerg train with strong single target DPS and AOE. Ironically, by stacking a keeps defenses with the oil methods you just outlined, you effectively make zergballing the ONLY way to take a keep (b/c you WILL wipe do anything else GUARANTEED). You're also not doing anything to actually protect it from a clustered, coordinated zergball, the very thing you're trying to get rid of.

Oil is its own worst enemy.

Sleep · October 2014

michaelb14a_ESO2 wrote: »

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

michaelb14a_ESO2 wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

It's a flaming load of crap. It will be impossible to defend the back flag from impulse groups unless you have your own impulse blob, and we all love that ability locking lag, right?

Oils in resource towers hasn't really been a problem for months, even pugs know how to storm the towers and take them out now. I have not seen a single tower camp last more than 60 seconds after taking the resource in quite a while.

Oil farms in keep towers was cheesy, but it's not game breaking, and stopping it isn't worth losing the ability to defend the back flags.

If ZOS would change flags so that they couldn't be capped when the NPCs are still alive on them and/or a number of defenders, I might have been ok with this.

Uhhh, news flash: Impulse bombsquads that you're talking about don't die from oil. They heal and/or purge over it so....

Trust me, I hate them as much as you too, but the cognitive dissonance in this thread is overwhelming.

Oil is used to wipe less experienced players and PUGs that DON'T bunch together and zerg/spam and squad. Oil is actually what makes taking a defended keep with any other method other than zerging... close to impossible. [/b
]

tl;dr Oil is NOT a counter to zergs, zergs are the counter to oil.

Zergs can heal/purge through oil, but the initial hit of upto 800 from each oil, when combined with 4 oils in a flag room can seriously dent a zerg's health. Finish it off with ultimate dumps and AoEs and the zerg melts. I've seen it many a time happen.

The issue still remains that without an unsilenced AoE with large initial damage and high AoE cap, zerg balls will have impunity on flags if they keep silences going for as long as they need to.

Yes a dent. Zergs wipe for one reason, because they fragment and don't stay together and THIS is when oil is effective.

Another reason is that lag is not on their side but that seldom happens.

PlagueMonk · October 2014

EdTerra wrote: »

Zenimax, oil on the top of a keep has never exist in the reality, it's just a myth from movies

You don't have the "reality" excuse.

I don't like it. This change only favors big groups.

And zenimax will understand only the majority of players, Noobs pulsar bombsquad.
they will win all their battles with this unwanted (I know no player who want it) nerf.

Zenimax will destroy their game before they fixed it.

Sorry but hot oil as a defensive weapon has been a viable tactic for thousands of years. (not so common anymore though

)

It's only limitation is it was expensive and often just as dangerous to the user.

As for the OPs question......I'm also torn.

I absolutely hate the [snip] groups who stand on top of towers spamming 10 oils and continually healing themselves, making their removal costly while giving them tons of AP because they can hit one button and heal.

On the other hand, oil is a good but not foolproof way to deal with things like wall breaches, especially if you a smaller group defending against larger zergs.

I would say.......yes to the new implementation (with the caveat we need something to help fill the void of that keep defensive ability that can't be abused)

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Suru · October 2014

Justafiable nerf, with drawbacks ofc. Defending keeps will be a pain in the ass now with less oil spots. I suggest reworking the inner keeplayout slightly and putting a hole on the opposite side of the postern ledge inside the inner keep (upstairs) facing towards the back flags. Shrinks how bad it seems like it could be so its not so bad and you can still defend the back flag with oil.

Cody · October 2014

if ZOS implements this: they MUST have a fix for these impulse blobs/zergs when/if they do. if they don't have a fix for these blobs, then PvP will literally be almost ruined by these lag inducing blobs.

on the bright side, setting up oil in tiny keep tower rooms was a bit ridiculous in my opinion. will be nice to see that crap go.

Ifthir_ESO · October 2014

Answer to OP:

Too little, too late.

NadiusMaximus · October 2014

Good. Now double the walls hp and double the damage done by siege. It makes no sense that someone can live after being hit in the head by a bowling ball going 100mph.

Jabbar · October 2014

This is how it should be. At the very least if you use oil on the ground it should damage you as well.