Bolt Escape - Just delete it

Vahrokh · September 2014

philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »

There is a big difference between all those teleports and Bolt Escape, being that all "normal" teleports need a target and only work towards a player.

Making Bolt-Escape require a target and making Sorcs only able to teleport towards someone, would be one of the easiest fixes.

You just forget a tiny detail: every other class wants to close to melee range TO the target. Sorcs want to go AWAY FROM the target. So, unless you give sorcs a portable third (friendly) guy to warp to, then you have to let them point to everywhere except to the guy they are going away from.

philip.ploegerb16_ESO · September 2014

Vahrokh wrote: »

philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »

There is a big difference between all those teleports and Bolt Escape, being that all "normal" teleports need a target and only work towards a player.

Making Bolt-Escape require a target and making Sorcs only able to teleport towards someone, would be one of the easiest fixes.

You just forget a tiny detail: every other class wants to close to melee range TO the target. Sorcs want to go AWAY FROM the target. So, unless you give sorcs a portable third (friendly) guy to warp to, then you have to let them point to everywhere except to the guy they are going away from.

This is untrue for "Streak" , so all that would be needed would be the invention of a 2nd offensive morph.

morvegil · September 2014

Woolenthreads wrote: »

Every class has a type of Teleport Perk.
The DK has "Fiery Grip", which teleports a target to the player, available at L1 of the skill line.

The NB has "Teleport Strike", which teleports the player to the target, at L4 on the skill line.

The Templar has "Focused Charge" which teleports the player to the target, at L20 on the skill line (and annoyingly puts you behind them)

The Sorcerer has "Bolt Escape", which teleports the player to a location, at L42 on the skill line

So you want to remove the Sorcerers teleport perk. What sort of perk would it be replaced with and will you remove all the other teleports, and replace them too? While we're at it, you should make them all the same level, after all we're talking about being "fair" right?

Alternatively lets just remove the teleports, or remove the fifth perk of every skill line. Fair, yes?

As everyone has pointed out, your logic is wrong. Everyone elses "Teleport" requires a target....you guys just get to click around and use it to kite, escape, or attack....how about we make it universal?

morvegil · September 2014

Artemiisia wrote: »

just delete morvegil

Says the FOTM player...typical.

morvegil · September 2014

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

morvegil wrote: »

Seriously most over used power. Once you get max magicka regen u can just zip around. Last night a guy named [snip] was zipping in and out like a night blade....also doign 500-600 a hit with his little lighting balls. Thats pretty messed up hes doing what a NB does but way better.

what lightning balls do 500-600 damage, unless you're talking about power overload, thats a ultimate which is our only real damage ult.

Crystal Fragments too...overload light attack? Every Sorc seems to have that up too.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Mojomonkeyman · September 2014

I had an awesome time reading through this thread, so many terrible players desperately seeking for excuses why they´re not performing as they would like to...

Funniest part is, how all of the whiners mix everything together in their posts, like:"Bolt escape so OP, i cant do nothing because he has immovable up all the time & stacks shields!11eleven!!!"

Please keep it going, @AlienDiplomat & rest, try harder with another well formated 9000 words that tell nothing but that you are not good at pvp. Your sorc build is crap, every good sorc has moved away from crit setup & surge months ago... Just another hint that it is not the game but the players who is causing the problems...

I duel a lot and streak certainly isn`t a match winner. Apart from that good DKs still shred good sorcs most of the time. Duel more, ask good players how to solve what you obviously can`t.

Lionxoft · September 2014

slopezgamesub17_ESO1 wrote: »

LunaRae wrote: »

So hope that bolt escape bolt's away and never comes back?

Every class has their annoying ability that no body likes, templar has blazing shield, dk has dragons blood, nb has their vanish and sorc has bolt esc.

Wait... Did he just really... No, this can't be happening... MAKE IT STOP!

TheBull · September 2014

It's pretty obvious that it needs to be nerfed again. The raising of the caps in 1.3 completely negated the original nerf.

Ryzium · September 2014

TheBull wrote: »

It's pretty obvious that it needs to be nerfed again. The raising of the caps in 1.3 completely negated the original nerf.

So whenever all classes get stronger nerf one so that the bad players can be competitive. Sounds like a great plan, good insight.

TheBull · September 2014

Ryzium wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

It's pretty obvious that it needs to be nerfed again. The raising of the caps in 1.3 completely negated the original nerf.

So whenever classes get stronger Nerf them so that the bad players can be competitive. Sounds like a great plan, good insight.

No, but when a nerf is to resources in one patch and then you give 40% more resources the next patch it negates (no pun intended) the first patch.

Ryzium · September 2014

TheBull wrote: »

Ryzium wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

It's pretty obvious that it needs to be nerfed again. The raising of the caps in 1.3 completely negated the original nerf.

So whenever classes get stronger Nerf them so that the bad players can be competitive. Sounds like a great plan, good insight.

No, but when a nerf is to resources in one patch and then you give 40% more resources the next patch it negates (no pun intended) the first patch.

The nerf was to the ability cost. Which is still in effect. Every class has more resources to spam their spammable abilities. Should those abilities be given repeat use costs? Such as dragon blood, lava whip, swallow soul, concealed weapon, ambush, blazing shield, biting jabs. Everyone is OK justifying the nerf on BE but if it happened to their ability it would be ridiculous. I don't disagree with the BE nerf but if it gets nerfed again I call [snip]

[edited for profanity bypass]

Artemiisia · September 2014

morvegil wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

just delete morvegil

Says the FOTM player...typical.

I have always played sorcerer, so no not FOTM player

and I have veteran char of all classes, so pls get your facts right

Merlin13KAGL · September 2014

morvegil wrote: »

I call *** on you "anti-crybabies". There is no "l2P" factor here. If a dude can keep hiz around me and im supposed to "predict where he'll go"....im not a damn Jedi. Whats messed up is I did Ambush and hit him for like 300 dmg...then he whizzes off and no matter what damage i do its barely 200-300...yet hes hitting me for 400-700 which crystal fragments...or the OVERPOWERED OVERLOAD LIGHT ATTACK.

Such a crock...stop making excuses...I've played MMO's since the 90's...i know a broke class when i see it.

My hope is Zenimax is waiting to bump the NB with the Dark Brotherhood ***.

@morvegil‌, you needn't use the force for this. I can help out.

No prediction necessary, when the Sorc uses BE at you, he'll be 180 out from where he came from.

I recommend turning around.

It's like saying you can't predict whether someone will move left or right, and that's why you can't fight.

TheBull · September 2014

Ryzium wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Ryzium wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

It's pretty obvious that it needs to be nerfed again. The raising of the caps in 1.3 completely negated the original nerf.

So whenever classes get stronger Nerf them so that the bad players can be competitive. Sounds like a great plan, good insight.

No, but when a nerf is to resources in one patch and then you give 40% more resources the next patch it negates (no pun intended) the first patch.

The nerf was to the ability cost. Which is still in effect. Every class has more resources to spam their spammable abilities. Should those abilities be given repeat use costs? Such as dragon blood, lava whip, swallow soul, concealed weapon, ambush, blazing shield, biting jabs. Everyone is OK justifying the nerf on BE but if it happened to their ability it would be ridiculous. I don't disagree with the BE nerf but if it gets nerfed again I call [snip]

Nope, those abilities never were in question and still aren't. BE was, prior to the nerf and is now post 1.3 caps being raised.

[edited to remove quote]

Ryzium · September 2014

TheBull wrote: »

Ryzium wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Ryzium wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

It's pretty obvious that it needs to be nerfed again. The raising of the caps in 1.3 completely negated the original nerf.

So whenever classes get stronger Nerf them so that the bad players can be competitive. Sounds like a great plan, good insight.

No, but when a nerf is to resources in one patch and then you give 40% more resources the next patch it negates (no pun intended) the first patch.

The nerf was to the ability cost. Which is still in effect. Every class has more resources to spam their spammable abilities. Should those abilities be given repeat use costs? Such as dragon blood, lava whip, swallow soul, concealed weapon, ambush, blazing shield, biting jabs. Everyone is OK justifying the nerf on BE but if it happened to their ability it would be ridiculous. I don't disagree with the BE nerf but if it gets nerfed again I call [snip]

Nope, those abilities never were in question and still aren't. BE was, prior to the nerf and is now post 1.3 caps being raised.

Glad you can say that swallow soul which does 450 damage not critting and BE which does 300 not critting and costs more and takes longer to use needs to be nerfed when i can simply spam swallow souls 20 times and kill someone while holding block where as BE allows me to what? run away and survive. If you had a good build you could easily chase after that person running away or just kill them if they ever came back. BE after 1.4 when they cap the players hit to 6 like all other AoEs will balance it. Nothing else needs to be done.

[edited to remove quote]

morvegil · September 2014

I love the elitest player mindset here. "You just suck, learn to play....blah blah blah" Instead of offering real solutions.

Artemiisia · September 2014

thats because there aint any real solutions to it, being and becoming an elite player aint just about giving you the skills to put in your cast bar for max dps, if you dont know how they work, when to use them and when not to use them.

same being an elite player means studering every race and class, to know how to stack their abilities, which makes stronger synergy and such.

so well the solutions is, study every class/race and every skill with knowing what both morphs does and have the interact with everything else.

sounds time consuming dont it?, it is for sure.

take Age of Conan, I have over 1900 hours of game play, and im still not an elite player there, why because I didnt aim for it.

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO · September 2014

morvegil wrote: »

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

morvegil wrote: »

Seriously most over used power. Once you get max magicka regen u can just zip around. Last night a guy named 'supermad' was zipping in and out like a night blade....also doign 500-600 a hit with his little lighting balls. Thats pretty messed up hes doing what a NB does but way better.

what lightning balls do 500-600 damage, unless you're talking about power overload, thats a ultimate which is our only real damage ult.

Crystal Fragments too...overload light attack? Every Sorc seems to have that up too.

Because WE LITERALLY HAVE NO OTHER OFFENSIVE SPELLS AT ALL.

Artemiisia · September 2014

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO thats why I cant take Morvegil seriously, and NBs can do more damage than that, if its in the hand on a player that knows the class

Woolenthreads · September 2014

morvegil wrote: »

Woolenthreads wrote: »

Every class has a type of Teleport Perk.
The DK has "Fiery Grip", which teleports a target to the player, available at L1 of the skill line.

The NB has "Teleport Strike", which teleports the player to the target, at L4 on the skill line.

The Templar has "Focused Charge" which teleports the player to the target, at L20 on the skill line (and annoyingly puts you behind them)

The Sorcerer has "Bolt Escape", which teleports the player to a location, at L42 on the skill line

So you want to remove the Sorcerers teleport perk. What sort of perk would it be replaced with and will you remove all the other teleports, and replace them too? While we're at it, you should make them all the same level, after all we're talking about being "fair" right?

Alternatively lets just remove the teleports, or remove the fifth perk of every skill line. Fair, yes?

As everyone has pointed out, your logic is wrong. Everyone elses "Teleport" requires a target....you guys just get to click around and use it to kite, escape, or attack....how about we make it universal?

Said precisely one other person after my post but before yours.

I didn't bother replying to that. I will point out that I never stated a case for or against. What I ask at the end of my post still stands; if you delete it, What.are.you.going.to.replace.it.with? That is part of the title of the thread, "Delete". You can defend the idea that there is something bad about it as much as you like, I don't care. However, you should state what you think it ought to be replaced with and it needs to be at least as good as any other end of skill-line perk. You will also have to then find space for a teleport of some kind for the Sorcerer. Give a positive suggestion not a negative one.

Nightreaver · September 2014

morvegil wrote: »

As everyone has pointed out, your logic is wrong. Everyone elses "Teleport" requires a target....you guys just get to click around and use it to kite, escape, or attack....how about we make it universal?

I agree and as a Sorcerer I support this suggestion 100%, lets make those abilities all universal......remove target from all of them.
/sarcasm off

Melee characters want to close any gap between them and their target.
Ranged players want to widen that gap between them and their target.
You want to delete the ability to widen the gap then you need to eliminate all abilities intended to close the gap.
You can't have one without the other.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · September 2014

Artemis wrote: »

Kirsika wrote: »

Artemis wrote: »

Nerfs in previous patched don't mean anything now, when they raised soft caps. BE needs to be nerfed again.

I have 400 more magicka now, that equates to the cost of 1 additional BE w/ the cost increase debuff. And I get about 33 more in combat magicka regen which equates to 1 additional BE about every 25 seconds.

How does this make the previous nerfs meaningless, or is that just what you tell yourself?

I'll tell you how. I was chasing this sorc all the way from one keep to another. He was running+BE, I was on 75% speed horse. Noticed him when he started running away from someone else from my faction, so I headed there.
He would cast BE couple of times and then just run. Whenever I feel like I'm getting closer (and it takes some time to cover the difference in distances) he just casts his BE again. Rinse and repeat. I never caught him. That is so broken..
Should I mention, that they can streak back and forth? and when you break that stun and are supposed to be immune to cc, they still will stun you?
Anyways, idk where you got your numbers from, but I told what I experienced in practice. And I was on a horse. Of course, given there was a longer distance, I would probably catch him eventually.. or not? However, there is no reason to consider longer distances in this game. Moreover, I should be able to catch him even without a horse somehow. Or wtf? Ppl can see invisible NBs, but then sorcs don't care about crippling grasp and just teleport away. And it can't be countered. ONLY if you have retreating maneuvers on your bar.. Which is not something a solo player would have, whereas almost any sorc would use Streak because it's just too good and is offensive and defensive(escaping) at the same time!

It, of course, depends on max magic and magic regen. The sorc you described understands how to manage his magic/stamina and can probably do that indefinitely. Most of good sorc use is resource management and the better you get at that the more deadly and hard to kill you become.

If I pull out the 'execute boss' bar I can reliably kill most normal bosses without taking damage. The heavy casters get a few licks in. This is because I can literally cast Crystal Fragments forever, if I am very careful. The timing is everything. So it never really gets up and if it does Restraining Prison will nail it back down.

If I get excited none of this works. I have to be very careful indeed. Your Bolt Escape guy just does this well. He can carefully manage stamina so that he can always run and that is enough time with softcapped magic regen and a big magic max, probably well fed, to get his magic back.

Ripping up Cadwell at VR6.

Artis · September 2014

Omg I know that he can manage stamina and magicka. It's not difficult at all if the only thing you do is just run. Moreover, what do you mean by

He can carefully manage stamina so that he can always run

? Of course he can always run. All the time you sprint - you sprint. When you don't sprint - you just run and your stamina is regenerated. No matter in which proportions you do it. It's all additive. It is very simple math/physics.

is enough time with softcapped magic regen and a big magic max, probably well fed, to get his magic back.

And this is the issue. It is not related to his skill or anything like that. He just has high number. Mathematically, it's enough to regen magicka faster. So the previous nerf is NO longer valid. Need to nerf it again, because you can't counter bolt escape now. Or are you saying that it is supposed to be like that?
Then make it so that I can spam dark cloak and no one can ever see me! But no, in stamina build I can't. And anyone with magelight can counter me. Whereas using Crippling Grasp(supposed to root a target and accelerate me) - I can't catch a sorc. I can't even catch a sorc on a horse.

Soulharvester · September 2014

I have a solution, in stead of a bolt, do a blink. So they go within 20meters in a random direction. No more straight lines...

Or, when they bolt, they have a 50% chance at dropping armor/loot/gold which players can pickup! even the bound stuff, just make it unbound when it falls off!

If they happen to bolt and a horse is in the path, well, that will stop em for a while... (police academy 1)

Woolenthreads · September 2014

Soulharvester wrote: »

I have a solution, in stead of a bolt, do a blink. So they go within 20meters in a random direction. No more straight lines...

Or, when they bolt, they have a 50% chance at dropping armor/loot/gold which players can pickup! even the bound stuff, just make it unbound when it falls off!

If they happen to bolt and a horse is in the path, well, that will stop em for a while... (police academy 1)

Interesting solution, however every other teleport does damage and some form of stun. I like the idea of blink, but how about it also explodes at the start point for some damage equal to 75% of "Inferno's" non-persistent damage and does 1s stun? *amusement at juggling grenades*

morvegil · September 2014

i wear medium armour so i run out of stamina and magicka regen all tehj time

Merlin13KAGL · September 2014

Nightreaver wrote: »

morvegil wrote: »

As everyone has pointed out, your logic is wrong. Everyone elses "Teleport" requires a target....you guys just get to click around and use it to kite, escape, or attack....how about we make it universal?

I agree and as a Sorcerer I support this suggestion 100%, lets make those abilities all universal......remove target from all of them.
/sarcasm off

Melee characters want to close any gap between them and their target.
Ranged players want to widen that gap between them and their target.
You want to delete the ability to widen the gap then you need to eliminate all abilities intended to close the gap.
You can't have one without the other.

@Nightreaver, exactly. @morvegil, Streak does require a target.

In the case of desired stun, the target is you.

In the case of desired departure, the target is: that rock, that stream, that anything-that's-somewhere-other-than-here,

Mages trade Stamina, Health, and Armor Class for Magicka. Plain and simple.

If you're telling us there is no downside, why is it mages still die?

Soulharvester wrote: »

I have a solution, in stead of a bolt, do a blink. So they go within 20meters in a random direction. No more straight lines...

Or, when they bolt, they have a 50% chance at dropping armor/loot/gold which players can pickup! even the bound stuff, just make it unbound when it falls off!

If they happen to bolt and a horse is in the path, well, that will stop em for a while... (police academy 1)

@Soulharvester‌, you bet. This is genius. Blink right off a cliff, into another mob...

DK chains should sometimes grab the tree I'm standing beside too, Templar's spear should occasionally pin his own foot to the ground (in glowing glory, of course), and NB's stealth bow attacks should sometimes cause the bowstring to flip them in the eye, stunning and causing temporary blindness.

You should get a 50% chance to lose your gear when you stealth, spike armor, or focus charge.

Give me a break.

Gorthax · September 2014

Woolenthreads wrote: »

Every class has a type of Teleport Perk.
The DK has "Fiery Grip", which teleports a target to the player, available at L1 of the skill line.

The NB has "Teleport Strike", which teleports the player to the target, at L4 on the skill line.

The Templar has "Focused Charge" which teleports the player to the target, at L20 on the skill line (and annoyingly puts you behind them)

The Sorcerer has "Bolt Escape", which teleports the player to a location, at L42 on the skill line

So you want to remove the Sorcerers teleport perk. What sort of perk would it be replaced with and will you remove all the other teleports, and replace them too? While we're at it, you should make them all the same level, after all we're talking about being "fair" right?

Alternatively lets just remove the teleports, or remove the fifth perk of every skill line. Fair, yes?

Dont even include the DK's fiery grip. A) it is a 50/50 on if it will actually work, majority of the time i hit the button (spam it sometimes) and NOTHING comes out. B ) it only works ONCE on the same target. Not the same as the other listed skills. therefor it should NOT be in the list of "teleport" perks.....cuz it only works ONCE.

Potenza · September 2014

If they delete or change Bolt Escape just because of uninformed threads like this then I will just "delete" my account altogether.

Digiman · September 2014

morvegil wrote: »

Seriously most over used power. Once you get max magicka regen u can just zip around. Last night a guy named [snip] was zipping in and out like a night blade....also doign 500-600 a hit with his little lighting balls. Thats pretty messed up hes doing what a NB does but way better.

A ranged sorcerer teleporting around firing fireballs and killing people? Stop the presses this is serious news /sarcasm

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]