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Does anybody else find the limitation to 5 skills at a time annoying?
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Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭R1ckyDaMan wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »R1ckyDaMan wrote: »I find the whole idea of a skillbar at all annoying.
REALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what would be the alternative Im very curious to your suggestion lol.
The elder scrolls way. you equip a spell if you want to use magic and use it.
OH you mean the Skyrim way....yea screw that how about he Oblivion way instead.3 -
Nocturnalis✭✭✭If there were enough hotkeys for everyone to keybind every skill, there wouldn't be any class builds other than different morphs and armor. Any meaningful choice would be gone and ZOS would just have to find another way to limit skills based on choosing some sort of archetype system.
The games that don't limit your options with keybinds just do so in another way. They do have to balance (and limit) whether it is keybinds, talent tree or archetype choices.Edited by Nocturnalis on September 14, 2014 7:08PM3 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭Nocturnalis wrote: »If there were enough hotkeys for everyone to keybind every skill, there wouldn't be any class builds other than different morphs and armor. Any meaningful choice would be gone and ZOS would just have to find another way to limit skills based on choosing some sort of archetype system.
The games that don't limit your options with keybinds just do so in another way. They do have to balance (and limit) whether it is keybinds, talent tree or archetype choices.
WOAH you cant just bring rationalization to an irrational conversation that's just not fair.3 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭Arsenic_Touch wrote: »Yes it's annoying and no it has nothing to do with balance. This is purely a console decision right there.
How can you say the skill bar is purely a console decision.
Was GW2 skill bar limit a console decision?
Was Secret Worlds skill bar limit a console decision?
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Laerania_ESO✭✭✭Limits, limits, limits. That's all this game is about. Elders Limits Online.
Annoying yes, because the consolitis disease and wrong designing decisions.3 -
Arsenic_Touch✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Arsenic_Touch wrote: »Yes it's annoying and no it has nothing to do with balance. This is purely a console decision right there.
How can you say the skill bar is purely a console decision.
Was GW2 skill bar limit a console decision?
Was Secret Worlds skill bar limit a console decision?
Secret world had 7 active skills and 7 passive. Didn't play it so I can't really comment on it but it's still more than this game.
Guild wars 2 had 5 skills for your weapon that you can't swap out, however you can swap weapons for 5 more skills on your alt weapon. Oh and don't forget the underwater weapons which is 5 more skills, with a weapon swap for 5 more after that. Then you have a slot for a heal that can be changed for a list of other heals and then 3 support skills that can be swapped for any of the other support and racial skills and an elite skill slot. Then you had the mechanic skills that were also there that changed things around, so nice try but it doesn't work.
It's clear it was a console decision by looking at how the UI is set up. I mean just look at the potion quick slot.Edited by Arsenic_Touch on September 14, 2014 7:22PM☠ Is it better to out-monster the monster or to be quietly devoured? ☠
╔═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╗
"Hope can drown lost in thunderous sound."
"Fear can claim what little faith remains."
"Death will take those who fight alone."
"But united we can break a fate once set in stone."
╚═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╝
NA // Ebonheart Pact // Leader of CORE Legion // Namira Beta Tester // VR11 NB2 -
GnatB✭✭✭✭1, If you don't have both bars with a toggle ability, you lose the ability when you flip bars.
I realize this, and I think it's stupid and should be changed.2. No one is stopping you from using the same weapon on both bars. Even the hints on the load screens says as much.
As others have said, same actual weapon, not same weapon type. If I want my dual wielder to have the same weapons on both bars, I need to make/upgrade 4 different weapons. It's silly. I should be able to say a weapon is used for both bars. Sure, it's technically phrased as a weapon swap, but that doesn't mean they can't just change the terminology to a skill bar swap.
Forgot one:
4. When you kill something/complete quest, the inactive weapon skill (and skills slotted into that bar) should gain some percentage of the exp.Arsenic_Touch wrote: »Yes it's annoying and no it has nothing to do with balance. This is purely a console decision right there.
To be fair, I like the 5+1 skill restriction. I have small hands, and it's easier to use a smaller number of keys. Nothing to do with console. Generally more abilities just end up with stupid things like 10 different damage skills that just have a bunch of differing cooldowns just to make sure you have to use 'em all.Edited by GnatB on September 14, 2014 7:28PMAchievements Suck1 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭Arsenic_Touch wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Arsenic_Touch wrote: »Yes it's annoying and no it has nothing to do with balance. This is purely a console decision right there.
How can you say the skill bar is purely a console decision.
Was GW2 skill bar limit a console decision?
Was Secret Worlds skill bar limit a console decision?
Secret world had 7 active skills and 7 passive. Didn't play it so I can't really comment on it but it's still more than this game.
Guild wars 2 had 5 skills for your weapon that you can't swap out, however you can swap weapons for 5 more skills on your alt weapon. Oh and don't forget the underwater weapons which is 5 more skills, with a weapon swap for 5 more after that. Then you have a slot for a heal that can be changed for a list of other heals and then 3 support skills that can be swapped for any of the other support and racial skills and an elite skill slot. Then you had the mechanic skills that were also there that changed things around, so nice try but it doesn't work.
It's clear it was a console decision by looking at how basic and unfinished the UI is.
So the 2 examples I gave the answer is NO its not a console decision.
[Snip]
Your dislike for the UI has NO relevance on it being a console decision. Them making it to YOUR liking would of had NO effect towards console whatsoever.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]Edited by ZOS_AlvinM on September 14, 2014 7:51PM3 -
Soliss✭✭✭You know it is really bizarre and indeed poor design that if you wanted to use a Sword + Shield on one bar and Dual Wield Swords on the other.... you need THREE SWORDS!
Imagine needing to carry around three swords when you are only using 2 at a time!! Again, weak conceptual design and execution by the development team on this.2 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭You know it is really bizarre and indeed poor design that if you wanted to use a Sword + Shield on one bar and Dual Wield Swords on the other.... you need THREE SWORDS!
Imagine needing to carry around three swords when you are only using 2 at a time!! Again, weak conceptual design and execution by the development team on this.
OK this is one well thought out argument I feel I can accept but for this one only in regards to weapon swap.3 -
Arsenic_Touch✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »
So the 2 examples I gave the answer is NO its not a console decision.
As for the UI.... how can a GOOD UI even possibly effect console players that argument is just pure stupid.
Your dislike for the UI has NO relevance on it being a console decision. Them making it to YOUR liking would of had NO effect towards console whatsoever.
Your examples gave nothing. You provided two games with MORE skills than this game, if you're going to counter what I said, you would need to pick an mmo with equal or less.
I didn't say anything about a good UI, I said basic UI. To everyone that tested this game, it was abundantly clear that the limited information, UI set up and skill restrictions was intentionally designed for consoles in mind. My like or dislike of the UI has ultimately nothing to do with what I said.
It was a long running discussion back during the early beta testing and throughout the later testing and there are even discussions post launch about it.
Now you can run along with your insults and attitude.
edit: how cute, you were so flustered that you actually went around and hit LOL on a bunch of my posts. Stay classy. Now this is where you pretend that you didn't do it. /thumbs upEdited by Arsenic_Touch on September 14, 2014 8:00PM☠ Is it better to out-monster the monster or to be quietly devoured? ☠
╔═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╗
"Hope can drown lost in thunderous sound."
"Fear can claim what little faith remains."
"Death will take those who fight alone."
"But united we can break a fate once set in stone."
╚═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╝
NA // Ebonheart Pact // Leader of CORE Legion // Namira Beta Tester // VR11 NB6 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭Arsenic_Touch wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »
So the 2 examples I gave the answer is NO its not a console decision.
As for the UI.... how can a GOOD UI even possibly effect console players that argument is just pure stupid.
Your dislike for the UI has NO relevance on it being a console decision. Them making it to YOUR liking would of had NO effect towards console whatsoever.
Your examples gave nothing. You provided two games with MORE skills than this game, if you're going to counter what I said, you would need to pick an mmo with equal or less.
I didn't say anything about a good UI, I said basic UI. To everyone that tested this game, it was abundantly clear that the limited information, UI set up and skill restrictions was intentionally designed for consoles in mind. My like or dislike of the UI has ultimately nothing to do with what I said.
It was a long running discussion back during the early beta testing and throughout the later testing and there are even discussions post launch about it.
Now you can run along with your insults and attitude.
The example was the fact they are LIMITED not the actual number being used but limited.
The games I used as example could just as easily went the route of unlimited keybinds.
The fact this game is limited to 5 has NOTHING to do with console.
Which part of the UI was left out because you CANT put it on console????4 -
guybrushtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Which part of the UI was left out because you CANT put it on console????
Are you seriously saying this UI wasn't just made for consoles? Have you played any pc games yet? Did you not notice the tabs made for controllers or the giant panels for tooltips, or the interface elements that practically scream "skip through these points with a controller"? Do you really think they just started to plan the entire control scheme and interface design without spending any thoughts about the console release? I mean, really?
And yes, the amount of skills *is* certainly limiting, especially with weapon swapping being so unresponsive at times. I come from games like swtor and rift, and found the higher number of skills being directly accessible to be much more comfortable.5 -
MrMT✭✭✭Of course this game was made with consoles in mind; and PC is beta for the consoles.
That said, I rather like the limited skill bars - it forces decisions - although, I agree with the toggle point entirely.1 -
ers101284b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Console limitations? Really? Fine go ask the console players how much they are enjoying the game......We will wait.
DC universe online had more than 5 skills and was made with console in mind. Final Fantasy 14 was made with console and uses more than 5 skills. The console argument is ridiculous. There is no reason to be able to have 100 skill bars just so you can macro them into 5 slots. This game is all about resource management and planning which is why they only had 5. Also the radial menu everyone complains about was in other ES games as well as both Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas. The only reason they have it as a quickslot instead of having to go through the menu to use it is because as an MMO you can not pause the game.1 -
Zorrashi✭✭✭✭✭The current skill bar is not annoying at all. It would be if there were cooldowns, but there are none of those.
It would be annoying however, if there were 10 or more abilities on one bar. I don't want that.1 -
Greatfellow✭✭✭I htink the current setup is a really excellent balance between having a variety of choices, and strategizing the use of very few of them at a time. You know, you go into battle you do not carry the whole weaponry of your army with you. You are one piece of it only, and should only be able to wield a small portion of that military wealth at any given time. Also, you could strive to become so good that you can do these two things:
1) Choose your equipment (and Abilities) well for the upcoming engagement
2) be able to work well with less than ideal equipment in ANY given situation.
Semper Fi.
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dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭In skyrim we didn't have all this weapon slotting and 10+2+ Heavy/Light Attacks. If you wanted to change up there you had to pause. In this came you could theoretically dodge roll, stick and move while slotting -or- you could try to strategize a build for each tray that works in the widest variety of situations. I like the system the way it is. I understand, coming from a game where you are accustomed to 5 trays of 10 buttons that you macro-chain on your g510 keyboard, or your razor naga mouse might be what you're looking for. I can tell you though, that this game TSW and DC Online just play differently (and probably others I haven't thought of). They are totally different animals. Combat is more peppy, and you're not going to need wrist surgery for carpal tunnel from your fingers playing wildly over the keyboard like Beethoven at a concert. I know its hard to understand, but don't expect this game to play like the old model of mmo's, and you'll be fine. Many of us are actually glad that MMO's are making the games more action-based. Characters still have all that variety of skills that they learn and know, they just can't use them all the time. Its a paradigm shift. Its like complaining that soccer doesn't have a hockey stick, or that Hockey could use a baseball.
P.S.: I'm really tired of people begging to get the bonus of their toggle powers for free on the tray, without it actually occupying a slot. Not every class gets toggles, so the ones that have a plethora of toggles would be vastly overpowered with respect to classes that do not. That would absolutely not be fair. Throw in the fact that spellcrafting will allow players to make a huge variety of combat pets of their own design and people could have 6 flame atronachs, 6 scamps, 6 Ogrims, 6 Frost atronachs, 6 Senche Tigers, etc. Does that make sense? Even now, imagine the sorcerers running around with Inner Light, Bound Armor, Volatile Familiar, and their Twilight. Sorcerers are already frighteningly powerful, what more do you want, the Awesome Button?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yff3jH8NECs Edited by dodgehopper_ESO on September 14, 2014 10:31PMUS/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>1 -
Greatfellow✭✭✭dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »In skyrim we didn't have all this weapon slotting and 10+2+ Heavy/Light Attacks. If you wanted to change up there you had to pause. In this came you could theoretically dodge roll, stick and move while slotting -or- you could try to strategize a build for each tray that works in the widest variety of situations. I like the system the way it is. I understand, coming from a game where you are accustomed to 5 trays of 10 buttons that you macro-chain on your g510 keyboard, or your razor naga mouse might be what you're looking for. I can tell you though, that this game TSW and DC Online just play differently (and probably others I haven't thought of). They are totally different animals. Combat is more peppy, and you're not going to need wrist surgery for carpal tunnel from your fingers playing wildly over the keyboard like Beethoven at a concert. I know its hard to understand, but don't expect this game to play like the old model of mmo's, and you'll be fine. Many of us are actually glad that MMO's are making the games more action-based. Characters still have all that variety of skills that they learn and know, they just can't use them all the time. Its a paradigm shift. Its like complaining that soccer doesn't have a hockey stick, or that Hockey could use a baseball.
Yeah, I feel like I'm much more involved in the second-to-second combat in this game, and in the on-the-spot strategy. I REALLY like that. I have my preferred starting moves, but from there I just flow with the wind of battle, and when I win in those conditions I feel like I really thought my way through it.0 -
whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭No I like it that way. It forces players to think and select the most interesting spells for their builds. The limitation is part of the strategy. I like it.
I agree with you whole heartedly
Signed, Kotaro Atani.PS5 NAVR16/ CP 160 Khajiit Nightblade of the Aldmeri Dominion, Guildmaster and Assassin of the Queen's Hand guild on NA PC. PvP Officer in the WOLF guild on NA PS5, and of course Master Thief. Currently 3600 CP out of 3600 CP on NA PS5. Currently 810 CP on NA PC (used for PTS testing purposes only). On PS5 I am also a Master Crafter, all traits done and learned, Jewelry crafting done. all Motifs learned on PS5 except for maybe two-three Motifs. All Companions are Max level as are their Skills.Warrior, Lover, Thief.... Nightblade. Aldmeri Dominion For Life! For the Queen!! Go Dominion or go home ! "I have no hatred for the races of Man, but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age. I would sooner place an Altmer infant on the Ruby Throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims. The Altmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit share the common traits of intelligence, patience and reason. We do not seek riches or plunder. Domination is not our goal, nor is the acclamation of power for its own sake. Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines. Stand with us." ―Your Queen Commands, Ayrenn Arana Aldmeri.(All 18 characters are AD only! This one is a AD Loyalist)Member of ESO Since January 29, 2014, started early Access 3/30/14 on PC, currently subbed on NA PS5 and on NA PC. Note- I only use PC for PTS testing purposes, the PS5 is my dedicated Game Platform.Note- for those that don't know how to say Kotaro Atani it's "Ko tar row Ah ta ni" (Ko with a Oh sound, tar which sounds like the sticky black tar stuff, row like rowing a boat, Ah with a AHHHH sound, Ta with a Tahhh sound, Neeee which sounds like knee)"The blowing sands of time wipe clean the footprints of the past...""Moonsugar may be the key to paradise, but it is through a false door...""A perfect society is always elsewhere..."- Unknown book of Khajiiti proverbs.2 -
I find it pointless to have access to 12 actions but only display 6 at one time2
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Elf_Boy✭✭✭OK --
So why cant we separate the weapon switch from the skill bars?
Make it 10 + 2 fixed and have ` just swap weapons with no skill bar changes?
Same number of total skills. Still able to use the exact same builds. Still able to use the exact same weapons.
No more having to double-slot toggles.
Would that make everyone happy?
I suspect it wont make EVERYONE happy but would work for the majority.** Asus Crosshair VI Hero, Ryzen 1800x, 64GB DDR4 @ 3000, GTX 1080 ti, 4K Samsung 3d Display m.2 Sata 3 Boot Drive, m.2 x4 nvme Game Drive **0 -
ers101284b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭OK --
So why cant we separate the weapon switch from the skill bars?
Make it 10 + 2 fixed and have ` just swap weapons with no skill bar changes?
Same number of total skills. Still able to use the exact same builds. Still able to use the exact same weapons.
No more having to double-slot toggles.
Would that make everyone happy?
I suspect it wont make EVERYONE happy but would work for the majority.
No. 1-5 while attacking with mouse and using wasd is doable. Trying to dodge while attacking with mouse and trying to hit 0 not doable. Keeping the the left hand in one central area makes the combat possible.1 -
renton1x1x1✭✭✭This one says - noRenton Sc Breton Sorcerer VR14
Renton Tp Argonian Templar VR14
Renton Dk Imperial DragonKnight VR14
Renton Nb Khajiit Nightblade VR10 Vampire
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http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/190077/the-traveling-merchant-eu-craglorn-trading-guild
So let me get this straight: You want to ride on a magic carpet to see the king of the potato people and beg with him for your freedom. And you're telling me that you're completely sane? - Rimmer - Red Dwarf V - Quarantine0 -
Probitas✭✭✭When they updated Lord of the Rings to remove most of the skills, they claim was it was "TOO HARD" to manage all those skills. Let's forget that those who took the time to learn them used them all the time, no, that's not at all important.
I see most new games now do this for two reasons. 1- Make it extremely difficult to use skill synergy to bust up another player in PVP, 2 - Consoles.Edited by Probitas on September 17, 2014 2:23AM0 -
Mendoze✭✭✭I wouldn't mind if ZOS would add couple more skill slots, but I still like current system. If I could change it, I'd go for couple of weapon independent extra buttons for armor spells, mage light and such "passive" skills. 5 active skills is plenty enough, but it annoys me that I have to spend those slots for "passive" skills too....in both skill bars.0 -
Mondo✭✭✭✭Game was designed for Console. Controller dont has that much buttons.
Get over itIm not the Hero you need, im the Troll you deserve!
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L2P = Accept that DK is OP and stop complaining2
