Which do you prefer? Fixed bugs or New Content.

heyguyslol · August 2014

I want Zos to focus their efforts more on fixing in game bugs/exploits rather than adding new content to the game.

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Sorry misread lets try this again.

No worries bro not entirely your fault happens to me all the time especially when I haven't slept.

GnatB · August 2014

I like the bugs/exploits fine and I would rather them add more content to the game.

To date, I have only experienced a single significant* bug, and IIRC it was emergency patched within a week. (OOM crash after ~4 hours)

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

umm why is there no both option, because the teams working on them are not the same.

No offense, but I actually have to disagree. (slightly). Content bugs, (i.e. a quest getting broken) is likely going to be fixed by at least some members of the team responsible for adding new quests/zones. (technical designers/scripters, most likely... and odds are these would be many of the same folks handling balance issues), though yeah. The artists and audio guys on the team doing new content not so much.

And I'd strongly suspect the people adding the underlying infrastructure for portions of the arena and justice system are probably the same engineers who would be working on "real" bug fixing.

You definitely do *not* simply have 1 team fixing bugs with content/features/etc., and 1 team making new content/features/etc.

slopezgamesub17_ESO1 wrote: »

JessieColt wrote: »

OP, you seem not to understand how a game company works.

On the contrary it seems that you do not understand how the "Entertainment" industry works. I have a degree in 3D modeling/Animation for gaming/film production and while studying we were also educated on how the "Entertainment" industry works.

Sure they will want to keep their main dev directors but the guys actually doing all the grunt work are a dime a dozen in the industry and move from job to job all the time its called Freelance.

On any project "with legs" you do NOT want to be swapping people around. The best people for fixing a bug are people that know that system. And at least in my portion of the industry, companies that garner a reputation for treating employees as seasonal workers start finding it hard to find quality employees. *cough* LucasArts *cough*

That said, in my personal experience, modelers and animators (a.k.a. artists) are *far* more likely to be doing contract work than any of the other disciplines. Though it's also my understanding that the contracts are usually for a set period of time, which likely means you'd have to wait for the contract(s) to be up before shifting resources.

raglau · August 2014

GnatB wrote: »

On any project "with legs" you do NOT want to be swapping people around. The best people for fixing a bug are people that know that system.

By release the design effort (original game architecture and coding) will have rolled off and been replaced by build effort (deployment, test and bug-fixing). Therefore it is entirely likely that a select few people were taken from the original design team and assigned to a purely bug-fixing team. Rationale being that the new content being developed does not require anywhere near the effort required to develop the original game so resources can be re-assigned.

So they will have people that know the game inside out in the bug team as you say, but they will in all likelihood ring-fence the content development and bug fix resources. They would be in two separate teams to prevent the resources being swapped around, as you point out.

That's exactly what I would do, or instruct someone to do, on projects where I need to meet deadlines for two very different things - SLAs for bugs\defects and SLAs for new features (content releases). If you put both activities into the same team without protecting resources and prioritising the work, it very quickly becomes a mess and you deliver neither.

Crucially, they would be under two different managers\leads, and of course each manager will strongly protect his resource!

So I think the person who said it is likely to be two separate teams is spot on . The two modes of working are entirely different - design vs fix, build & test - and making resources swap in and out of those modes always slows them down.

Elvent · August 2014

I was going to vote both but no option, both are important to me.

Vaelen · August 2014

I want Zos to focus their efforts more on fixing in game bugs/exploits rather than adding new content to the game.

ZOS should fix the build balance and endgame content issues first before releasing new endgame content which will not fix the current endgame issues with the game.

Nox_Aeterna · August 2014

I like the bugs/exploits fine and I would rather them add more content to the game.

So ... if i prefer to get new content , because the game currently is clearly lacking some it really needs , i like bugs and exploits :P?

Anyway , yes , i prefer new content , since i mostly always play solo and the content there is ridiculous at endgame , zen better be doing a good work on that solo zone.

raglau · August 2014

Vaelen wrote: »

ZOS should fix the build balance and endgame content issues first before releasing new endgame content which will not fix the current endgame issues with the game.

They should be doing both, that is why they are paid a subscription. In theory to provide us with a higher quality release model than a F2P game, right now I don't really see they are doing that.

GnatB · August 2014

I like the bugs/exploits fine and I would rather them add more content to the game.

You're making the assumption that they aren't developing new content that also requires new infrastructure. However they are.

As for rolling off a "select few" into a bug fixing team? In any big project *nobody* knows every system, and the best person to fix a bug is somebody that knows that system.

No, I'm sorry. You want the person that knows the system best fixing the system. It'll take anybody else far more time to fix it. (which is admittedly somewhat inevitable, regardless of what is ideal there is always some turnover)

Odds are each and every person has a list of prioritized tasks, whether that task be "fix X bug" or "implement Y feature". With the person that initially implemented and "owns" X feature getting the bugs for it. Switching from bug fix to feature implement is negligable, (particularly since feature implementation is always also part bug fix). Swapping around features? Now that's inefficient.

raglau · August 2014

GnatB wrote: »

(particularly since feature implementation is always also part bug fix).

No it is not. Bug fix is a function and feature release (properly called release management) is a process that all functions requiring deployment must gate. Perhaps on a small project with a 20 or so resources you may find a company tries to save some pennies by foregoing good practise but I get the feeling ESO is probably a reasonably large bit of work for the game industry.

I will concede I don't know the ins and outs of the game industry and perhaps they cut some corners at times. But I do know that many such developers are trying to use software industry standard good and best practise now. And that would dictate ring-fencing problem and design. The bug team may have an escalation path into the design team, but you would not mix the two, it is bad management practise. Remember, being Accountable (owning) is not the same is being Responsible (doing).

Those projects where a PM assigns tasks to resources in the unstructured way you say are usually tin-pot little projects run by poorly qualified people. Whatever we may think of how the game was released, I personally imagine there was a large team in place which would have required formal structure and formal management.

But hey, I wasn't there so perhaps I am hugely wrong, which in itself may explain the rather bungled release!

stumpy999 · August 2014

I want Zos to focus their efforts more on fixing in game bugs/exploits rather than adding new content to the game.

This long in, we approach Update 4, there should be no basic bugs like broken quests left.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO · August 2014

I want Zos to focus their efforts more on fixing in game bugs/exploits rather than adding new content to the game.

I want what's here fixed, but as soon as that's done I WANT MY HAND-TO-HAND SKILL LINE!!!!

Vaelen · August 2014

I want Zos to focus their efforts more on fixing in game bugs/exploits rather than adding new content to the game.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

I want what's here fixed, but as soon as that's done I WANT MY HAND-TO-HAND SKILL LINE!!!!

H2H would be utterly useless like 2H and DW until they fix Stamina builds.

GnatB · August 2014

I like the bugs/exploits fine and I would rather them add more content to the game.

squicker wrote: »

GnatB wrote: »

(particularly since feature implementation is always also part bug fix).

No it is not. Bug fix is a function and feature release (properly called release management) is a process that all functions requiring deployment must gate. Perhaps on a small project with a 20 or so resources you may find a company tries to save some pennies by foregoing good practise but I get the feeling ESO is probably a reasonably large bit of work for the game industry.

There is no such thing as adding a feature without adding additional bugs that need fixing as part of adding the feature. Quite frequently bugs in interactions with existing features, or exposing bugs in existing features.

And I'm curious, exactly what about assigning issues with a feature to the person most knowledgeable about the feature is "unstructured"?

Vizier · August 2014

Invalid poll. The choice is: I want Zos to work on fixing bugs or "I like bugs" and want to have Zos work on content? I have to "like bugs" if I don't care that ZOS doesn't apply every asset at their disposal to fixing them? Come on. I think there's a reasonable middle ground there. Perhaps ZOS could prioritize an extra team or two to fixing bugs. I wouldn't mind seeing that. At the same time I still want them to keep working on content.

heyguyslol · August 2014

I want Zos to focus their efforts more on fixing in game bugs/exploits rather than adding new content to the game.

Vizier wrote: »

Invalid poll. The choice is: I want Zos to work on fixing bugs or "I like bugs" and want to have Zos work on content? I have to "like bugs" if I don't care that ZOS doesn't apply every asset at their disposal to fixing them? Come on. I think there's a reasonable middle ground there. Perhaps ZOS could prioritize an extra team or two to fixing bugs. I wouldn't mind seeing that. At the same time I still want them to keep working on content.

Doesn't appear to be invalid as over 100 ppl have voted and the majority want bugs/exploits/game stability fixed over adding new content. The poll is doing its job and tells me that I'm not the only player who feels zos is not prioritizing their game dev/objectives accordingly.

SirAndy · August 2014

slopezgamesub17_ESO1 wrote: »

Which do you prefer? Fixed bugs or New Content.

Yes!

michaelb14a_ESO2 · August 2014

I want Zos to focus their efforts more on fixing in game bugs/exploits rather than adding new content to the game.

Sindala wrote: »

*sighs* .....every week a new post like this and every week we have to explain they are 2 different departments, both working on separate things.....not the same department sharing work desks...... *sigh*

Why do you assume that it's two completely different departments? While I agree that they may have been split up into teams or AOR's (areas of responsibilities), I don't agree with the assessment that b/c of this the new content team CAN'T or is somehow technically unable to be refocused to instead work on existing bugs/stability/mechanics and balance.

By your logic, the engineer/team that designed, wrote & developed "X" feature, is/are not the same that is currently responsible for it's fixing b/c that guy is now working on new content and it's now left his "department". IF that's the case then either:

a) Now we know why the systems are not being fixed. They are missing the most qualified person to debug and fix the problem, the ones that wrote & designed it to begin with. Prioritizing content over quality.

OR

b) They have the same engineer doing both. Again, prioritizing content over quality.

In both cases, by halting work on new content to instead focus resources on the existing contents quality... would lead to things being fixed quicker, cleaner, and will also improve the quality of new content to come.

edit: or to over

grimjim398 · August 2014

This is just a dumb poll. As people have mentioned, there are different teams working on each.

heyguyslol · August 2014

I want Zos to focus their efforts more on fixing in game bugs/exploits rather than adding new content to the game.

michaelb14a_ESO2 wrote: »

Sindala wrote: »

*sighs* .....every week a new post like this and every week we have to explain they are 2 different departments, both working on separate things.....not the same department sharing work desks...... *sigh*

Why do you assume that it's two completely different departments? While I agree that they may have been split up into teams or AOR's (areas of responsibilities), I don't agree with the assessment that b/c of this the new content team CAN'T or is somehow technically unable to be refocused to instead work on existing bugs/stability/mechanics and balance.

By your logic, the engineer/team that designed, wrote & developed "X" feature, is/are not the same that is currently responsible for it's fixing b/c that guy is now working on new content and it's now left his "department". IF that's the case then either:

a) Now we know why the systems are not being fixed. They are missing the most qualified person to debug and fix the problem, the ones that wrote & designed it to begin with. Prioritizing content or quality.

OR

b) They have the same engineer do both. Again, prioritizing content over quality.

In both cases, by halting work on new content to instead focus resources on the existing contents quality... would lead to things being fixed quicker, cleaner, and will also improve the quality of new content to come.

/amen

It's just unfortunate that most players just don't grasp this concept. Quality > Quanity imo.

Mormo · August 2014

I like the bugs/exploits fine and I would rather them add more content to the game.

This is a poorly worded poll. Who would "like" bugs? Some of you people need to take a class on survey's apparently...

Spottswoode · August 2014

I prefer a balance between the two, but I place a mildly higher priority on fixing bugs.

Csub · August 2014

We already had this poll, I think even the title was same(ish), and so is my comment: Working on bug fixes and on new content are not mutually exclusive.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · August 2014

I like the bugs/exploits fine and I would rather them add more content to the game.

Mormo wrote: »

This is a poorly worded poll. Who would "like" bugs? Some of you people need to take a class on survey's apparently...

Lies! This survey clearly proves the op is right!! It is time we storm Zeni with our list of demands!

I cant wait for the next poll:
Would you:

1. Like 50 dollars
or
2. I have a small ***, id like 100 dollars.

It should be equally as telling as this fine poll.

heyguyslol · August 2014

I want Zos to focus their efforts more on fixing in game bugs/exploits rather than adding new content to the game.

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Mormo wrote: »

This is a poorly worded poll. Who would "like" bugs? Some of you people need to take a class on survey's apparently...

Lies! This survey clearly proves the op is right!! It is time we storm Zeni with our list of demands!

I cant wait for the next poll:
Would you:

1. Like 50 dollars
or
2. I have a small ***, id like 100 dollars.

It should be equally as telling as this fine poll.

Trolling is always welcome, keep'em coming guys don't let me down.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · August 2014

I like the bugs/exploits fine and I would rather them add more content to the game.

slopezgamesub17_ESO1 wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Mormo wrote: »

This is a poorly worded poll. Who would "like" bugs? Some of you people need to take a class on survey's apparently...

Lies! This survey clearly proves the op is right!! It is time we storm Zeni with our list of demands!

I cant wait for the next poll:
Would you:

1. Like 50 dollars
or
2. I have a small ***, id like 100 dollars.

It should be equally as telling as this fine poll.

Trolling is always welcome, keep'em coming guys don't let me down.

If you think that is trolling how do you honestly not think the way you phrased your questions is not trolling?

heyguyslol · August 2014

I want Zos to focus their efforts more on fixing in game bugs/exploits rather than adding new content to the game.

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

slopezgamesub17_ESO1 wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Mormo wrote: »

This is a poorly worded poll. Who would "like" bugs? Some of you people need to take a class on survey's apparently...

Lies! This survey clearly proves the op is right!! It is time we storm Zeni with our list of demands!

I cant wait for the next poll:
Would you:

1. Like 50 dollars
or
2. I have a small ***, id like 100 dollars.

It should be equally as telling as this fine poll.

Trolling is always welcome, keep'em coming guys don't let me down.

If you think that is trolling how do you honestly not think the way you phrased your questions is not trolling?

You are certainly entitled to your opinion and point of view but it looks like most of us out number content by nearly 3 to 1 vote :P Whether my wording meets your expectations or not the players understand and get the message.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · August 2014

I like the bugs/exploits fine and I would rather them add more content to the game.

slopezgamesub17_ESO1 wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

slopezgamesub17_ESO1 wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Mormo wrote: »

This is a poorly worded poll. Who would "like" bugs? Some of you people need to take a class on survey's apparently...

Lies! This survey clearly proves the op is right!! It is time we storm Zeni with our list of demands!

I cant wait for the next poll:
Would you:

1. Like 50 dollars
or
2. I have a small ***, id like 100 dollars.

It should be equally as telling as this fine poll.

Trolling is always welcome, keep'em coming guys don't let me down.

If you think that is trolling how do you honestly not think the way you phrased your questions is not trolling?

You are certainly entitled to your opinion and point of view but it looks like most of us out number content by nearly 3 to 1 vote :P

At least we know where you stand. So i guess my next question is why didn't you make the options

1. The game needs fixed, and every bug fix an angel gets it wings.
2. I like the crappy broken junk, and every time content is added a puppy gets punched in the face, so give me more content!

You could have had a clean sweep.

Stx · August 2014

I want Zos to focus their efforts more on fixing in game bugs/exploits rather than adding new content to the game.

I hate having that feeling about every single ability, tooltip, set bonus, passive, or anything really. That feeling of, "okay, should I invest in this, or is it bugged?".

I have never played a game where I have to go to the internet and double check that something actually works before investing skill points/gold into it...

FIX THE BUGS!

heyguyslol · August 2014

I want Zos to focus their efforts more on fixing in game bugs/exploits rather than adding new content to the game.

Stx wrote: »

I hate having that feeling about every single ability, tooltip, set bonus, passive, or anything really. That feeling of, "okay, should I invest in this, or is it bugged?".

I have never played a game where I have to go to the internet and double check that something actually works before investing skill points/gold into it...

FIX THE BUGS!

I know the feeling I've wasted so much gold because of broken/bugged passives or abilities. I could rage about it but that time has passed.

dennissomb16_ESO · August 2014

I prefer the method that ZOS is doing. maintenance with a certain amount of small patch fixes and larger content patches that include a crap load of fixes that people don't bother to read because they are more interested in the content part