Any word on the ridiculous sneak speeds?

eventide03b14a_ESO · August 2014

Samadhi wrote: »

twev wrote: »

@smeeprocketnub19_ESO;

@Samadhi;

As always, I appreciate being given info, and my understanding of situations being put on the correct path when needed.

Respects.

Glad to have been of help.

I've been testing and comparing speed bonuses from different passives and sets since before Night's Silence was put into game.
Getting the RavSpeed add on and being able to directly keep track of the exact %s was a huge benefit.

I've been using vampire + Concealed Weapon for 125% Sneak speed since before Night's Silence had a speed bonus on the set.
Before going vampire, I was using Shadow Dancer's Raiment set + Concealed Weapon for the same bonus speed combination.

Since both Vampire and Shadow Dancer's Raiment negate the sneak speed penalty, other bonuses stack on top of their effect.

The largest difference is that Shadow Dancer's Raiment is a 5 piece set; so it cannot be combined with Night's Silence 5 piece set like Vampire can be.

(Note:
sets like Seducer and Warlock can be combined for massive Magicka management bonuses because Warlock also has jewelery pieces; Shadow Dancer's Raiment does not)

You're right, but this more akin to Breton passives stacking with the Warlock set. We are not talking about two full sets we are talking about a full set and a vampire passive.

eventide03b14a_ESO · August 2014

naatokb14_ESO wrote: »

First, if ZOS nerfs the set bonuses by making it so race/vamp/ww passives won't stack with them, I'm going to hate on all you whiners. Two reasons:

First, I don't hear any complaints from the lot of you when your passives and set bonuses stack to burn my vampire character to ash with a single crit hit in PvP, even though my character was at FULL and FOOD AUGMENTED health!

Second, vampires are supposed to be faster, stronger and more agile than normal men and mer. The Night's Silence set specifically addresses this quite nicely as is. So my character moves faster than horses whose speed hasn't been buffed by that particular feeding. So what?! That is as should be!

And let's face it...once I am even "suspected" of being in the area by game code mechanics (when my stealth eye opens at all), the Night's Silence set speed buff drops completely and will not reactivate until I am fully stealthed again.

If you people can't find something to do other than attempting to ruin someone else's enjoyment of this game because you're a clueless n00b in PvP, your inane complaints WILL destroy this game...just like the inane complaints have destroyed nearly every other MMO in existence.

Best argument yet! And 100% true. Every argument against this comes from fear and misunderstand. These people have enjoyed their classes inherent benefits since launch and now they finally see Nightblades and vampires as a legitimate threat and they don't know how to do anything in PvP that doesn't involve rushing into a group in a dress with a destruction staff.

Samadhi · August 2014

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

...
The largest difference is that Shadow Dancer's Raiment is a 5 piece set; so it cannot be combined with Night's Silence 5 piece set like Vampire can be.

(Note:
sets like Seducer and Warlock can be combined for massive Magicka management bonuses because Warlock also has jewelery pieces; Shadow Dancer's Raiment does not)

You're right, but this more akin to Breton passives stacking with the Warlock set. We are not talking about two full sets we are talking about a full set and a vampire passive.

I drew the comparison with Seducer and Warlock because I specifically referenced why Night's Silence works with vampire, but doesn't work with the 5 piece Shadow Dancer's Raiment set.

If Shadow Dancer's Raiment had jewelry pieces like Warlock set has, it would be possible to combine this set with Night's Silence set to attain the same speed as a vampire is attaining, without being a vampire.
Shadow Dancer's Raiment has no jewelry pieces though; so it's impossible to pair it with the Night's Silence set because both are 5 piece bonuses.

My error for any confusion of clarity as to why I brought up the Seducer + Warlock (5 piece + 5 piece) combo.

eventide03b14a_ESO · August 2014

badmojo wrote: »

Big difference between crying for a nerf, and asking if something is working as intended.

I see more crying in here from the pro-sneak stacking folks.

The same sort of crying we hear from sorcerers when people complain about Bolt Escape? For the record I have repeated defended Bolt Escape against any sort of nerf.

eventide03b14a_ESO · August 2014

Samadhi wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

...
The largest difference is that Shadow Dancer's Raiment is a 5 piece set; so it cannot be combined with Night's Silence 5 piece set like Vampire can be.

(Note:
sets like Seducer and Warlock can be combined for massive Magicka management bonuses because Warlock also has jewelery pieces; Shadow Dancer's Raiment does not)

You're right, but this more akin to Breton passives stacking with the Warlock set. We are not talking about two full sets we are talking about a full set and a vampire passive.

I drew the comparison with Seducer and Warlock because I specifically referenced why Night's Silence works with vampire, but doesn't work with the 5 piece Shadow Dancer's Raiment set.

If Shadow Dancer's Raiment had jewelry pieces like Warlock set has, it would be possible to combine this set with Night's Silence set to attain the same speed as a vampire is attaining, without being a vampire.
Shadow Dancer's Raiment has no jewelry pieces though; so it's impossible to pair it with the Night's Silence set because both are 5 piece bonuses.

My error for any confusion of clarity as to why I brought up the Seducer + Warlock (5 piece + 5 piece) combo.

No harm. I think I misunderstood the point you were trying to make.

Supersun · August 2014

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

Big difference between crying for a nerf, and asking if something is working as intended.

I see more crying in here from the pro-sneak stacking folks.

The same sort of crying we hear from sorcerers when people complain about Bolt Escape? For the record I have repeated defended Bolt Escape against any sort of nerf.

People keep bringing BE up like it's the same thing.

They really aren't

I can't activate Magelight and stand on top of a sorc to stop them from Bolt Escaping.

I can't pop a potion of detection in the general zip code of a sorc to stop them from Bolt Escaping.

Stealth can be EASILY countered leaving the person at a dramatic disadvantage since they have no useful 5th armor set bonus for fighting.

Bolt Escape + Immovable has no realistic counter, and even if countered doesn't put the sorc at nearly ANY disadvantage besides just starting a fight short a couple hundred magicka.

I'm not saying that one deserves a nerf while the other doesn't. Balance, especially in this case, is relative. I'll I'm saying is that comparing the two isn't fair since stealth actually HAS counters.

rophez_ESO · August 2014

I would like to just say, for the record, that my original post really didn't have anything to do with PVP balance or a fear of Nightblades. My post was basically to call attention to the fact that a few passives were stacking to result in the rather comical situation of my character being able to sneak as fast as his horse can run, and faster and for less stamina than he could sprint.

You see what I'm saying? It's silly to think you can crouch and SNEAK around faster than you can SPRINT. It's clearly a bug. Get over it.

eNumbra · August 2014

rophez_ESO wrote: »

You see what I'm saying? It's silly to think you can crouch and SNEAK around faster than you can SPRINT. It's clearly a bug. Get over it.

You're using an enchanted armor set; magic can be used to explain lots of things; but hey, lets roll with this logic.

It's silly to think people can teleport, it's silly to find named quest bosses weaker than their normal counterparts in VR levels, it's silly to think that- no... you know what.

This is a *** fantasy realm. The game includes magic. Anything is possible, get over it.

rophez_ESO · August 2014

eNumbra wrote: »

rophez_ESO wrote: »

You see what I'm saying? It's silly to think you can crouch and SNEAK around faster than you can SPRINT. It's clearly a bug. Get over it.

You're using an enchanted armor set; magic can be used to explain lots of things; but hey, lets roll with this logic.

So a 2 trait "magic" armor set can make you travel super fast, but somehow the wizards haven't figured out how to make a "magic" armor set that can let you run fast openly? If the devs wanted you to have super speed, you really think they'd only give it to people that are sneaking? Does it really compute? It's a bug, bud.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

Even if some of the stuff stopped stacking, you'd still crouch faster than you can sprint. I don't think that's the deciding factor. I'm also pretty sure it was completely intended, since it was reported during beta many times and people have submitted tickets about it and were told it was intended. I think ZOS caved and is pretending it wasn't meant to work like that the entire time. But hey, they don't have more important things to do, like maybe fixing cloak, or anything.

Also, I would like to reiterate that you can not sneak faster or as fast as a horse. At least not one trained for speed. imperial speed horses still leave me in the dust rather quickly. Meanwhile I am eating up stamina to move slower.

I don't feel it gives me an unbalanced advantage versus other people. I became a vampire solely to take advantage of this set, because I like that the fact that I am very focused on stealth synergizes well with this.

But seriously, if they feel the need to nerf this, I want all sets that synergize with passives to be nerfed as well. There are far more powerful, unbalancing set/passive synergies out there. Fix them, too.

It's *** to fix something like this if you aren't going to also fix offenders that actually cause imbalance issues.

eNumbra · August 2014

"Super speed" is obtained through a very specialized build whose pros and cons have already been weighed a dozen times in this thread, the basic build still includes the vampire sneak passive which requires you to be a vampire.

A supernatural entity that SHOCK is particularly fast, agile, and stealthy.
So yes, a vampire attaining an "unnatural" sneak speed computes just fine.

SirAndy · August 2014

rophez_ESO wrote: »

So you think it makes sense to sneak faster and cheaper than you can sprint?

Not just sprint, it's actually faster than sprinting on a horse *with* Rapid Maneuver.
;-)

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

SirAndy wrote: »

rophez_ESO wrote: »

So you think it makes sense to sneak faster and cheaper than you can sprint?

Not just sprint, it's actually faster than sprinting on a horse *with* Rapid Maneuver.
;-)

no, as I have now said several times, it is not at all. Especially not with rapid maneuver. Unless you mean the horse doesn't get rapid maneuver but the sneaker does, except that rapid maneuver would either have to be cast by someone else or eat through your stamina, severely limiting just how long you could sneak for.

I'm not even sure you actually can sneak faster than a fast horse even with rapid maneuver.

I have all the possible synergies, and I am regularly left behind by imperial horses with the leather speed harness.

You have no idea what you are talking about, so it is best if you stop posting erroneous information.

SirAndy · August 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

no, as I have now said several times

Just because you say it over and over doesn't make it true.

There's more than one video on youtube that compares the sneak speed to normal character speed and horse speed with and without rapid maneuver.

Iorail · August 2014

SirAndy wrote: »

rophez_ESO wrote: »

So you think it makes sense to sneak faster and cheaper than you can sprint?

Not just sprint, it's actually faster than sprinting on a horse *with* Rapid Maneuver.
;-)

Once again, you are posting incorrect information on a topic you have no idea on the mechanics, refrain from posting lies please.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

SirAndy wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

no, as I have now said several times

Just because you say it over and over doesn't make it true.

There's more than one video on youtube that compares the sneak speed to normal character speed and horse speed with and without rapid maneuver.

there is one way to get faster than the 65% horse. Because you obviously like spreading misinformation and ignoring what everyone who is capable of testing it tells you, I will fill you in.

You can use a 30% speed potion to match a 65% speed horse... for 10 seconds. Of course it has a cooldown, and iirc you will only match it, not go faster. You might be able to beat it with retreating maneuvers, but you can't sustain that speed. You will be low on stamina from maneuvers, and you won't be able to use the potion again for awhile. SO if you were racing a 100 yard dash against said horse, you -might- win.

Now let the people who have actually been able to test it talk, and stop making crap up. Just because you saw a youtube video of some dude going faster than a horse doesn't mean you have any clue what you are talking about.

Samadhi · August 2014

rophez_ESO wrote: »

...
So a 2 trait "magic" armor set can make you travel super fast, but somehow the wizards haven't figured out how to make a "magic" armor set that can let you run fast openly? ...

I'd fully support creation of a crafted gear set that increased Sprinting move speed and stacked on top of the Medium Armour passive.

SirAndy wrote: »

rophez_ESO wrote: »

So you think it makes sense to sneak faster and cheaper than you can sprint?

Not just sprint, it's actually faster than sprinting on a horse *with* Rapid Maneuver.
;-)

I tested using RavSpeed with a horse that had only 51% increase to speed, so not nearly as fast as a fully leveled Fast Horse.
I already documented the numbers, but to reiterate them:

Sprinting on my horse I went at 181% of regular (on foot) running speed.
At a dash (repeatedly tapping Sprint rather than holding it) on my horse I traveled at 200% of regular (on foot) running speed
Sprinting on the horse *with* rapid maneuvers had me travel at 210% of regular (on foot) running speed
At a dash *with* Rapid Maneuvers (repeatedly tapping Sprint rather than holding it in) on my horse I traveled at 230% of regular (on foot) running speed

Vampire with Night's Silence and Concealed Weapon traveled at 185% of regular (on foot) running speed.
With Rapid Maneuvers thrown in, I was at 216% of regular running speed

Of course, when I cast Rapid Maneuvers it takes away from how long I can sneak, but does not take away from how long my horse can sprint, but that is besides the point.

If my horse was fully built for speed, the horse would have remained faster and capable of doing so over unlimited distance.
It was my choice to put extra points in my horses Stamina stat so I would be harder to knock off of it though.

indigoblades · August 2014

rophez_ESO wrote: »

I would like to just say, for the record, that my original post really didn't have anything to do with PVP balance or a fear of Nightblades. My post was basically to call attention to the fact that a few passives were stacking to result in the rather comical situation of my character being able to sneak as fast as his horse can run, and faster and for less stamina than he could sprint.

You see what I'm saying? It's silly to think you can crouch and SNEAK around faster than you can SPRINT. It's clearly a bug. Get over it.

Your OPINION of what makes sense does not determine what is a bug. Its just your opinion.

Example, it does not make sense my horse can sprint infinitely. It does not make sense i can block with a staff-bow/light armor and mitigate more damage than non-blocking while wearing heavy armor. Other things that don't make sense in our fantasy game are i can block with two hands while casting spells but i cant sprint with both hands free and cast a spell. I could go on and on.

Anyway i can imagine a vampire who is fast creature, who then specializes in sneaking with special clothing (night silence) being faster than running but that doesn't matter lots of game mechanics in any mmo make no sense. If he is nightblade also specializing in sneaking him being faster than Avg horse is not big deal to me. Oh this is only for short distances because horses can gallop at zero stamina. All that specializations is going to make one weaker in this game as has been pointed out by many in previous post. t

If fast sneak is only out of the least detection ( & out of combat) , and its a 5 piece set buff this is no way even approaching OP, its a novelty in my mind. A fun toy maybe useful in a very few cases. Losing Five traits is a huge downgrade unless you are stamina build. Also with all the whining about stamina being weak this is one the last things ZOS should even consider looking at much less changing. If night blade vampires like this, leave them alone and let them have one small thing that makes them happy.

If it only takes one post to get the set bonus changed after it was noticed and seen on PTS, then a month goes by, well it is shame and clear sign of how devs only react to whiny forum post and have no real plan or direction for this game. With all the other bugs/problems in this game, even giving this a 2nd thought to this is ridiculous.

GnatB · August 2014

eNumbra wrote: »

A supernatural entity that SHOCK is particularly fast, agile, and stealthy.
So yes, a vampire attaining an "unnatural" sneak speed computes just fine.

'k, but then it should still be even FASTER when not sneaking.

Which is already doable via mist form. +45% movement speed in Elusive Mist.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Even if some of the stuff stopped stacking, you'd still crouch faster than you can sprint.

Problem isn't stuff stacking. Problem is all the various improvements should have been implemented as a reduction of the existing penalty instead of as an actual % bonus. That said, I'll bite. If it stopped stacking, how could you crouch faster than you can sprint?

eNumbra · August 2014

GnatB wrote: »

eNumbra wrote: »

A supernatural entity that SHOCK is particularly fast, agile, and stealthy.
So yes, a vampire attaining an "unnatural" sneak speed computes just fine.

'k, but then it should still be even FASTER when not sneaking.

Which is already doable via mist form. +45% movement speed in Elusive Mist.

Elusive mist used to be even faster. Zenimax categorically nerfed the vampire a while back. I was against it's nerf at the time, so...

GnatB · August 2014

indigoblades wrote: »

rophez_ESO wrote: »

I would like to just say, for the record, that my original post really didn't have anything to do with PVP balance or a fear of Nightblades. My post was basically to call attention to the fact that a few passives were stacking to result in the rather comical situation of my character being able to sneak as fast as his horse can run, and faster and for less stamina than he could sprint.

You see what I'm saying? It's silly to think you can crouch and SNEAK around faster than you can SPRINT. It's clearly a bug. Get over it.

Your OPINION of what makes sense does not determine what is a bug. Its just your opinion.

True. It does however make it likely a bug. If ZoS agrees and fixes it, then that would confirm it being a bug.

Guess what...

And seriously, doesn't anybody else find it completely absurd that people are actually comparing sneak speed vs fastest possible horse speed? Who the heck cares that when you bring out the yardstick, sneak speed actually isn't faster. The fact that it's even in the same ballpark is absurd enough.

That's like some people saying skill X is overpowered because it one shots the final boss of the hardest trial. And everybody liking the skill defends it by saying "no it doesn't, it leaves 1hp left. You still have to hit it with a light attack".

The fact that it's faster than the slowest horse is silly.

The fact that it's faster than sprint is silly.

The fact that it's faster than run is silly.

The fact that people are defending it by saying it's not as fast as the fastest possible horse is absurd.

That said, sure. Have a set that increases movement speed by 30%. Fine. Have a vampire passive that reduces the sneaking penalty (possibly to 0). Fine. Having vampires sneak at the resulting 130% speed, which is the same speed they run at, fine.

Having vampires run at 100% speed, sprint at whatever speed (130%?) and sneak at 185% speed? Silly.

ItsMeToo · August 2014

Then let us sprint faster than the fastest horse and not be seen. Plus have unlimited stamina to do it.

I would like that.

hamon · August 2014

rophez_ESO wrote: »

I would like to just say, for the record, that my original post really didn't have anything to do with PVP balance or a fear of Nightblades. My post was basically to call attention to the fact that a few passives were stacking to result in the rather comical situation of my character being able to sneak as fast as his horse can run, and faster and for less stamina than he could sprint.

You see what I'm saying? It's silly to think you can crouch and SNEAK around faster than you can SPRINT. It's clearly a bug. Get over it.

you talk complete garbage. its a magically enhanced set. you need to forego many usefull 5 set magical bonus buffs to have this. and that hinders you in combat .. so because you think it looks silly you decided its a bug?

please just stop posting your embarrassing yourself.

hamon · August 2014

GnatB wrote: »

indigoblades wrote: »

rophez_ESO wrote: »

I would like to just say, for the record, that my original post really didn't have anything to do with PVP balance or a fear of Nightblades. My post was basically to call attention to the fact that a few passives were stacking to result in the rather comical situation of my character being able to sneak as fast as his horse can run, and faster and for less stamina than he could sprint.

You see what I'm saying? It's silly to think you can crouch and SNEAK around faster than you can SPRINT. It's clearly a bug. Get over it.

Your OPINION of what makes sense does not determine what is a bug. Its just your opinion.

True. It does however make it likely a bug. If ZoS agrees and fixes it, then that would confirm it being a bug.

Guess what...

And seriously, doesn't anybody else find it completely absurd that people are actually comparing sneak speed vs fastest possible horse speed? Who the heck cares that when you bring out the yardstick, sneak speed actually isn't faster. The fact that it's even in the same ballpark is absurd enough.

That's like some people saying skill X is overpowered because it one shots the final boss of the hardest trial. And everybody liking the skill defends it by saying "no it doesn't, it leaves 1hp left. You still have to hit it with a light attack".

The fact that it's faster than the slowest horse is silly.

The fact that it's faster than sprint is silly.

The fact that it's faster than run is silly.

The fact that people are defending it by saying it's not as fast as the fastest possible horse is absurd.

That said, sure. Have a set that increases movement speed by 30%. Fine. Have a vampire passive that reduces the sneaking penalty (possibly to 0). Fine. Having vampires sneak at the resulting 130% speed, which is the same speed they run at, fine.

Having vampires run at 100% speed, sprint at whatever speed (130%?) and sneak at 185% speed? Silly.

having vampires silly, having magical stuff silly. having a horse you pull out your bag when you need it silly. having siege weapons in a bag silly. self rezzerecting after death silly. dragons silly. demons silly. if you take everything out the game that someone argues is silly you aint left with much.

i think you should perhaps stick to playing FifA or tiger woods. if its messing up your day just cos someone can move fast in a world with wizards and vampires and talking cats and lizards.

lathbury · August 2014

I think green dragon blood looks silly.

kitsinni · August 2014

It is not a bug. They knew it worked this way and multiple ZOS employees confirm it isn't. Concealed weapons always stacked with vamp and plenty of people reported how it worked on the test server. They may change it but it's not a bug. Every single part is doing exactly what the description says it does how is that a bug?

Alebelly_FotN · August 2014

You have got to be kidding me. You people want to cry about stealth speed....
My snipe from stealth hits for 1/2 what it did a week ago and no ones answered me on that bug report.. My cloak is a buggy piece of junk STILL. I have to eat thru 1k point shields on every class but my own in pvp before I do any damage. On top of all that I play a Vampire, stamina build, medium armor, duel wield with a bow. I refuse to use shields and block all day while spamming siphon spells. I refuse to wear a dress and hit you with a stick. I enjoy the feeling of my toon. I'm not near "optimal" however I have one thing,

I run fast ....OMG NERF ME.

Really people?

Elf_Boy · August 2014

IMO - the speed is ok, the stamina drain while going that fast should increase quite a bit. Can do bursts of fast stealth only.

dodgehopper_ESO · August 2014

So people are complaining that sneak speed shouldn't be as fast as horse speed. The reality is though, horse speed really doesn't feel like actual horse speed. That is the bigger problem. Honestly, I'd have preferred the game didn't have mounts anyway. How do they magically come from out of nowhere like that? Did you store a horse in your pocket or something? I've many times outrun a friend (sprint mind you) who was on his horse, to his chagrin. The horse speed is ridiculously bad unless you have invested in a speedy horse, in which case you can indeed beat a speedster stealthy vampire nightblade with happy 5 part set bonus. If you have a problem with anything here, it should be that horse speeds are innately too slow. You shouldn't be able to keep apace with a horse for that long, period. Even slow horses. We're not riding around on Donkeys. The reason horses don't go faster in the game, is that it would make the world seem too small, which is precisely why I think perhaps they shouldn't have existed in the first place. Nevertheless, they're in the game, its not a big deal. Its preposterous to compare vampiric magical superstealthing nightblade magic speed with magical clothing to help you move fast while stealthed, with ridiculously slow horses.

I'm defending the speed stealth and I only use it on an alt. As everyone who teams with me knows, my main character is an Imperial Templar, mostly tank but occasionally heals. I actually favor heavy armor, but I'll sport light if I have to. I don't have a dog in the race, except that I do enjoy farming materials from time to time on my hyper fast nightblade vampire argonian. I'm saying all this for full disclosure.

Yes, I like the speed. I also do not see a problem with it. As I've stated earlier in other posts, my only problem with the stealth speed is that there's no way to achieve similar speeds with sprint. Finally, Horse speed is terribly slow, although my 75% speed horse can beat a vampire nightblade with 5 part set bonus. I really don't see what the big problem with it is. If stealth weren't fragile, it might be a problem. If stealth didn't take time to reacquire, then I'd see it being a problem. As it stands there are built in features to the game which make it not a big deal. Its fluff. Get over it. I'm more concerned about a nasty sneak attack gank from some nightblade that's prepared, than his ability to run away from me. If I survive that attack, that same nightblade has a lot to worry about. It would be interesting to know how many nightblade players use this combination of stealth-speed stacking in pvp. I imagine not very many of them.

lathbury · August 2014

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

So people are complaining that sneak speed shouldn't be as fast as horse speed. The reality is though, horse speed really doesn't feel like actual horse speed. That is the bigger problem. Honestly, I'd have preferred the game didn't have mounts anyway. How do they magically come from out of nowhere like that? Did you store a horse in your pocket or something? I've many times outrun a friend (sprint mind you) who was on his horse, to his chagrin. The horse speed is ridiculously bad unless you have invested in a speedy horse, in which case you can indeed beat a speedster stealthy vampire nightblade with happy 5 part set bonus. If you have a problem with anything here, it should be that horse speeds are innately too slow. You shouldn't be able to keep apace with a horse for that long, period. Even slow horses. We're not riding around on Donkeys. The reason horses don't go faster in the game, is that it would make the world seem too small, which is precisely why I think perhaps they shouldn't have existed in the first place. Nevertheless, they're in the game, its not a big deal. Its preposterous to compare vampiric magical superstealthing nightblade magic speed with magical clothing to help you move fast while stealthed, with ridiculously slow horses.

I'm defending the speed stealth and I only use it on an alt. As everyone who teams with me knows, my main character is an Imperial Templar, mostly tank but occasionally heals. I actually favor heavy armor, but I'll sport light if I have to. I don't have a dog in the race, except that I do enjoy farming materials from time to time on my hyper fast nightblade vampire argonian. I'm saying all this for full disclosure.

Yes, I like the speed. I also do not see a problem with it. As I've stated earlier in other posts, my only problem with the stealth speed is that there's no way to achieve similar speeds with sprint. Finally, Horse speed is terribly slow, although my 75% speed horse can beat a vampire nightblade with 5 part set bonus. I really don't see what the big problem with it is. If stealth weren't fragile, it might be a problem. If stealth didn't take time to reacquire, then I'd see it being a problem. As it stands there are built in features to the game which make it not a big deal. Its fluff. Get over it. I'm more concerned about a nasty sneak attack gank from some nightblade that's prepared, than his ability to run away from me. If I survive that attack, that same nightblade has a lot to worry about. It would be interesting to know how many nightblade players use this combination of stealth-speed stacking in pvp. I imagine not very many of them.

Not me I'm the other kind stacked for damage with 5 pieces of Stygian for 20% more damage from stealth. Had the other set when ppl told me about used a couple of times racing my mates horse for kicks then deconned it.