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1.4 Shafts Solo Players !
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fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Of course it's relevant.KhajitFurTrader wrote: »fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »What's also killing solo play is they raised the level cap even higher than soloers can get than now .. VR14 is the new cap and soloable content ends at VR10.
And with the upcoming Champion system, where the VR system gets abolished, that's not even relevant anymore. So relax. ^_^
Whatever you call it, this is still clearly vertical progression which means if you don't keep up you'll be locked out of future content.0 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
1. Quest leveling to the new cap like 1-50, you know, how most other MMOs deal with leveling progress.What I haven't seen is a single person who wants more solo content actually say what they'd like to see in the game
2. End-game PVE dailies that are doable without having to 'group up'.
There's two to be going on with.
6 months since release and groupers have had both in spades added ... none in sight for others except vague references to unscheduled future content.
Q.E.D.Edited by fromtesonlineb16_ESO on August 27, 2014 10:57AM1 -
Phantax✭✭✭✭✭
✭What I haven't seen is a single person who wants more solo content actually say what they'd like to see in the game; just complaining about what there is already.
Haven't read this thread very much then have you? I've already posted a small list of things they could add to end-game to make is more solo friendly !
:O
Such as...
End-game Dailies
Crafting Dailies
Hard Mode Solo DungeonsEdited by Phantax on August 27, 2014 11:03AMHigh Elf Sorcerer VR12 - Destro / Resto Staff
I'm a werewolf. If you vamps don't like it.... Bite me !
We're not retreating... we're advancing in a different direction !2 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
[snip]Alphashado wrote: »It's the same 3 people every other day starting a new thread about the exact same thing, and it goes like this:
I want to play your
Massively
Multiplayer
Online
Game
all by myself. I want access to every single bit of content all by myself and I want it right now. How dare you create a multiplayer game that requires multiple people for a full 5% of the content? The nerve!
Don't suppose you even remember Zenimax promoting the concept of "Play the Game the Way You Want"
"Play the game the way you want to play it" doesn't translate into "have access to 100% of this multiplayer game as a single player".
ESO already has more freedom for a single player than any other MMO in history. I have said it before in this thread, and I will say it again. I challenge you or any other person to name one other successful MMO that has developed endgame group content that can also be solo'd.
Every other game has dungeons and raids that require (get ready, because you might find this shocking) groups to complete.
Nobody in their right mind would say that Craglorn is perfect. The phasing issues are borderline insane and make the group quests damned near impossible to complete. But you can still get a crapload of xp doing other group activities.
Just completing the public dungeons (w/o quests) will net you roughly 150,000 VR XP each. Completing burials or Anamolies will net you roughly 35,000-45,000 VR XP each. You don't need a grind group to do these. They can be done just fine with any old PUG of 4 semi-competent people.
You guys already have solo access to 98% of the game content. Do you really need 100% solo access? This argument just sounds selfish. Why should ZOS deviate from a formula that has proven successful time and time again?
Once again I challenge you to name me one successful MMO that has EVER created endgame group and raid content that was also designed to be solo'd.
[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on August 27, 2014 1:49PM3 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Good thing. Totally agree with previous post.Edited by TehMagnus on August 27, 2014 11:41AM1 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Group content belongs into an MMO to not have it would be pretty bad by ZO.
SWTOR on release was pretty well done, so was WOW. You had zones and at these zones you have regular quests for solo gamers, group / elite quests for smaller groups and world bosses for 20 or more people. It creates a whole new atmosphere for players and a rock solid community to work with in future.
The current system at WOW but also ESO is doomed as you do everything solo and only the raids require a group. Of course people will then get angry if in every patch only raid content is added, but the problem isn't that content its the lack of it pre VR 12 and its alternative on VR 14.
Quoted for truth. Games nowadays never even get to foster much of a community because 99% of the content is soloable easily, and no one really needs eachother but for competitive pvp and raids.arkansas_ESO wrote: »One of the bigger complaints people had about ESO was the lack of group based content. They're adding in what people asked for.
To be honest, solo players already have A LOT to do in ESO. Pretty much the entire game, apart from 4-man dungeons, Craglorn, and some parts of Cyrodiil, is made to be soloed, or at least can be. People even solo some of the Craglorn delves, surprisingly.
Also quoted for truth... I have solo'd as of patch 1.3 all but I think 2 craglorn delves + most of the craglorn quests, and back when craglorn came out they all could be solo'd (nerfs since have changed that to be basically undoable or close to it).
The only content in ESO that CANNOT be solo'd are some parts of cyrodiil PVP, 4-man vet dungeons, and the raids. Everything else IS solo. Solo'ers have more than enough content compared to people who want to group and have a challenge
. Edited by Attorneyatlawl on August 27, 2014 11:47AM-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.3 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Group content belongs into an MMO to not have it would be pretty bad by ZO.
SWTOR on release was pretty well done, so was WOW. You had zones and at these zones you have regular quests for solo gamers, group / elite quests for smaller groups and world bosses for 20 or more people. It creates a whole new atmosphere for players and a rock solid community to work with in future.
The current system at WOW but also ESO is doomed as you do everything solo and only the raids require a group. Of course people will then get angry if in every patch only raid content is added, but the problem isn't that content its the lack of it pre VR 12 and its alternative on VR 14.
Quoted for truth. Games nowadays never even get to foster much of a community because 99% of the content is soloable easily, and no one really needs eachother but for competitive pvp and raids.
That's why VR zones where HARD, to make you group. Problem IMO is and always has been that grouping isn't optimized yet in the game. ZOS mistake was to lower the difficulty instead of fixing grouping Edited by TehMagnus on August 27, 2014 11:48AM2 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Group content belongs into an MMO to not have it would be pretty bad by ZO.
SWTOR on release was pretty well done, so was WOW. You had zones and at these zones you have regular quests for solo gamers, group / elite quests for smaller groups and world bosses for 20 or more people. It creates a whole new atmosphere for players and a rock solid community to work with in future.
The current system at WOW but also ESO is doomed as you do everything solo and only the raids require a group. Of course people will then get angry if in every patch only raid content is added, but the problem isn't that content its the lack of it pre VR 12 and its alternative on VR 14.
Quoted for truth. Games nowadays never even get to foster much of a community because 99% of the content is soloable easily, and no one really needs eachother but for competitive pvp and raids.arkansas_ESO wrote: »One of the bigger complaints people had about ESO was the lack of group based content. They're adding in what people asked for.
To be honest, solo players already have A LOT to do in ESO. Pretty much the entire game, apart from 4-man dungeons, Craglorn, and some parts of Cyrodiil, is made to be soloed, or at least can be. People even solo some of the Craglorn delves, surprisingly.
Also quoted for truth... I have solo'd as of patch 1.3 all but I think 2 craglorn delves + most of the craglorn quests, and back when craglorn came out they all could be solo'd (nerfs since have changed that to be basically undoable or close to it).
The only content in ESO that CANNOT be solo'd are some parts of cyrodiil PVP, 4-man vet dungeons, and the raids. Everything else IS solo. Solo'ers have more than enough content compared to people who want to group and have a challenge.
Indeed. There are a few people here upset that they cannot solo 100% of the game content.
SWTOR was a perfect example as quoted above. If there isn't enough group content at endgame, there would be armies of upset people on this forum. I've seen it.
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Morvoldo✭✭but this games Unfair to those that enjoy questing and its so hard to get a group to even quest in craglorn, especially when your only Vet 7,8,9 below V12.
i've just got to Vet 9 and now unless i can get into groups i'm stuck.
This should not be the case all MMO's i've played you play to top level then you Raid except i cant even do any of that because i'm to low level even if new content comes out I'm to low level.
dont get me wrong i love to raid and do group stuff but i dont want to FORCED to do if i dont want to, unfortunately i Am in this game. 1-50 was awesome
tho latly been slowly starting to hate this game anyways, i had friends try it, they hated it some lasted to Vet2 then quit. tho there hardcore raiders and leveling 1-50 then basically leveling 1-50 again because thats what the Vet area's are basic 1-50 twice with Major Problems wasent there idea of Fun
and most moan about wow but then were do we all end up, back in wow lol when everyone jumped the SWTOR ship all or most ended up back in wow, where do we go when this gets anoying hehehe.
besides this game should of been Solo right till top level VR 12 (incl craglorn) and made the raids in Craglorn as well the Vet dungeons everything else should of been Solo, thats how normal MMO's work. Not one big group for 2 level's questing area.Edited by Morvoldo on August 27, 2014 11:58AM4 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭but this games Unfair to those that enjoy questing and its so hard to get a group to even quest in craglorn, especially when your only Vet 7,8,9 below V12.
i've just got to Vet 9 and now unless i can get into groups i'm stuck.
This should not be the case all MMO's i've played you play to top level then you Raid except i cant even do any of that because i'm to low level even if new content comes out I'm to low level.
tho latly been slowly starting to hate this game anyways, i had friends try it, they hated it some lasted to Vet2 then quit. tho there hardcore raiders and leveling 1-50 then basically leveling 1-50 again because thats what the Vet area's are basic 1-50 twice with Major Problems wasent there idea of Fun
and most moan about wow but then were do we all end up, back in wow lol when everyone jumped the SWTOR ship all or most ended up back in wow, where do we go when this gets anoying hehehe.
besides this game should of been Solo right till top level VR 12 (incl craglorn) and made the raids in Craglorn as well the Vet dungeons everything else should of been Solo, thats how normal MMO's work. Not one big group for 2 level's questing area.
Well that is the problem here. It's all about perception. ZOS wanted to do something a little different from most MMOs. Instead of having only Vet Dungeons and Raids (instanced) for group content, they created an entire zone for group content. So people like you (no offense intended) perceive Craglorn as just another zone. People are so accustomed to seeing endgame dungeons and raids bottled up inside some stuffy instance that when they walk into a zone, they just assume it should be solo content.
If you just view Craglorn as one big raid, (which was the intent) then it might be easier to understand.
The one argument that I will agree with is that there should be more ways to acquire VR XP as a solo player. If you do every single bit of solo content in the game, you should be somewhere between V10-V12. So the problem here is that many people are finding themselves short on VR XP and they see Craglorn as the only way to get to V12. There is some merit to this. Part of the problem is that ZoS has blended the lvling gameplay with the endgame gameplay.
Most MMOs provide plenty of ways to get to lvl cap w/o grouping. Then endgame is to be done after lvl cap. ESO has a big grey area here. They have admitted this was a mistake, hense the implementation of the Champion system.
Should there be more ways to get your character to lvl cap w/o being forced into a group? Yes.
Does that mean you should be allowed to solo every ounce of content in the game? No.
5 -
Soulshine✭✭✭✭✭
✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Group content belongs into an MMO to not have it would be pretty bad by ZO.
SWTOR on release was pretty well done, so was WOW. You had zones and at these zones you have regular quests for solo gamers, group / elite quests for smaller groups and world bosses for 20 or more people. It creates a whole new atmosphere for players and a rock solid community to work with in future.
The current system at WOW but also ESO is doomed as you do everything solo and only the raids require a group. Of course people will then get angry if in every patch only raid content is added, but the problem isn't that content its the lack of it pre VR 12 and its alternative on VR 14.
Quoted for truth. Games nowadays never even get to foster much of a community because 99% of the content is soloable easily, and no one really needs eachother but for competitive pvp and raids.
That's why VR zones where HARD, to make you group. Problem IMO is and always has been that grouping isn't optimized yet in the game. ZOS mistake was to lower the difficulty instead of fixing grouping
See this right here is the real problem. NO, it was NOT hard actually. It was exactly where it needed to be. I enjoyed the heck out of it too, way more that the 1-50 stuff. Let alone vet dungeons and Trials which were very nice for a raider like me.
Yet as usual, there is always the din of voices clammoring that this or that is "too hard" - players that group as well as solo players do this.
The expectation is that one should just faceroll everything in the game all the time and never die once, or have to stop for two lousy seconds on the fast track to insta-cap and actually use some noodle before going in all Leroy Jenkins into a pack of mobs that just might kick their booty if they didn't consider a different approach.
Trust me, those of us playing here who feel this way about content - group or solo content - spend far more time feeling "shafted" than any other subset of players I can think of. You really think there should be a string a videos from guilds posted with naked runs of AA because the content is just too hard?? Come on....lol
Meh ---- in the end the problem with MMOs in general is that because they have to cater all playstles they are virtually required to make content that on the one hand requires no skill or forethought whatsoever to complete along with more challenging content. Then we end up with the inevitable rift between groups of alienated players attacking each other for"doing it wrong" either way.
All this being said, the endless arguing over more or less solo content does nothing. Content for everyone and all types is a challenge to produce and unfortunately in ZoS's case, they have not proven to be particularly skilled in developing and delivering that in a consistent manner let alone with good timing. The game is still incredibly new and it has a long way to go before it gets optimized down to clockwork - if it ever gets there. What game did?Edited by Soulshine on August 27, 2014 12:11PM3 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Group content belongs into an MMO to not have it would be pretty bad by ZO.
SWTOR on release was pretty well done, so was WOW. You had zones and at these zones you have regular quests for solo gamers, group / elite quests for smaller groups and world bosses for 20 or more people. It creates a whole new atmosphere for players and a rock solid community to work with in future.
The current system at WOW but also ESO is doomed as you do everything solo and only the raids require a group. Of course people will then get angry if in every patch only raid content is added, but the problem isn't that content its the lack of it pre VR 12 and its alternative on VR 14.
Quoted for truth. Games nowadays never even get to foster much of a community because 99% of the content is soloable easily, and no one really needs eachother but for competitive pvp and raids.
That's why VR zones where HARD, to make you group. Problem IMO is and always has been that grouping isn't optimized yet in the game. ZOS mistake was to lower the difficulty instead of fixing grouping
See this right here is the real problem. NO, it was NOT hard actually. It was exactly where it needed to be. I enjoyed the heck out of it too, way more that the 1-50 stuff. Let alone vet dungeons and Trials which were very nice for a raider like me.
Yet as usual, there is always the din of voices clammoring that this or that is "too hard" - players that group as well as solo players do this.
The expectation is that one should just faceroll everything in the game all the time and never die once, or have to stop for two lousy seconds on the fast track to insta-cap and actually use some noodle before going in all Leroy Jenkins into a pack of mobs that just might kick their booty if they didn't consider a different approach.
Trust me, those of us playing here who feel this way about content - group or solo content - spend far more time feeling "shafted" than any other subset of players I can think of. You really think there should be a string a videos from guilds posted with naked runs of AA because the content is just too hard?? Come on....lol
Meh ---- in the end the problem with MMOs in general is that because they have to cater all playstles they are virtually required to make content that on the one hand requires no skill or forethought whatsoever to complete along with more challenging content. Then we end up with the inevitable rift between groups of alienated players attacking each other for"doing it wrong" either way.
All this being said, the endless arguing over more or less solo content does nothing. Content for everyone and all types is a challenge to produce and unfortunately in ZoS's case, they have not proven to be particularly skilled in developing and delivering that in a consistent manner let alone with good timing. The game is still incredibly new and it has a long way to go before it gets optimized down to clockwork - if it ever gets there. What game did?
Why did SWTOR fail? It had a great solo-play story line but end game content was a flop so people just didn't stick to the game and left. Remember that in an MMORPG, the solo content is supposed to be a learning curve to develop your character & hone your skills before engaging in grouped, end game multiplayer content.
TESO was clearly released unfinished and lacking any endgame content which is what ZOS is trying to address with increasing levels of difficulty. AA & Hel Ra made people rethink their builds and actually use and understand why they where using their ultimates like Negate, nova etc etc..
The release of Hard Modes was made to quench the thirst for even harder content for groups that did runs after runs of AA in ~13 min, where fully stuffed and had nothing else to do than speedruns.
Now they are releasing Arena for groups of 4 players who want to engage in actual challenging content (Crypt of Hearts is a joke compared to Arena, even Normal Mode) and a new trial that no guild has been able to complete yet (granted if we all had our characters & stuff from live server, things would probably go faster).
This means that ZOS has learn't from SWTOR failure, that they are satisfied with the extend of the easy-solo content and are aiming to please the more hardcore/endgame players (note that a great number of Hardcore guilds quit the game before summer because the game just wasn't challenging enough for them). Hardcore guilds create content & publicity, communitiesn they bring players, they make content that makes non hardcore players dream (in the good way) and try harder to be on par.
In the end it's all about money. Solo players will never be satisfied in an MMORPG because some content will never be accessible to them and will end up unsubing. MMO players and hardcore players will keep playing as long as they have challenging multiplayer content to do and a nice side story on the side for those who like that.
Despite the cry and rage we can see in forums, there are probably more MMO & Hardcore players than solo players (like in any MMO) and ZOS clearly wants to please them with the new updates that are coming in order to avoid a SWTOR-like fisaco.
The difference between this MMO and the others (just like SWTOR) is that it's based on the lore and history introduced in solo games.
Let's hope ZOS keeps doing what they are doing and doesn't end up like SWTOR. It's better to loose some solo-players that to go F2P because all the players that reach endgame stop playing.4 -
Gedalya✭✭✭✭✭Like all MMOs, this game needs both group (social) content, and also solo content. I'm glad for the features offered in 1.4 (even if it is Craglorn Part Deux), however I am suspicious like OP that with the talk of Adventure Zones, we may find solo content waning as this game evolves.1 -
yiasemi✭✭✭✭Yep, both. I'm solo. I like people, I'm extremely sociable in real life and can be the life and soul of wakes. I am a manager of adults and a leader of vast hordes of little peeps (I'm a senior educator) for most of my working life. I'm a mom, a lover, and a sporty and swimming type. But when I log in I enter that personal space. I love eso because it is an integral part of that personal space Beth and now ZOS have gifted me over the years (along with all the other rpg makers). So look, I'll group up now and then. Happily and I guarantee I will entertain. But give me that space. Or I'm gone. Accommodate me, or I'm vacating. I want groupers to flounder too. (I like fishing only in ESO, it's antisocial, in real life I'd chat all day and party with beer and fish all night). But in ESO I have negotiated private time. PLZ let me , don't make me spend my ebbing social powerz charming you too, I need a break.Edited by yiasemi on August 27, 2014 1:52PM0 -
LonePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Group content belongs into an MMO to not have it would be pretty bad by ZO.
SWTOR on release was pretty well done, so was WOW. You had zones and at these zones you have regular quests for solo gamers, group / elite quests for smaller groups and world bosses for 20 or more people. It creates a whole new atmosphere for players and a rock solid community to work with in future.
The current system at WOW but also ESO is doomed as you do everything solo and only the raids require a group. Of course people will then get angry if in every patch only raid content is added, but the problem isn't that content its the lack of it pre VR 12 and its alternative on VR 14.
Quoted for truth. Games nowadays never even get to foster much of a community because 99% of the content is soloable easily, and no one really needs eachother but for competitive pvp and raids.
That's why VR zones where HARD, to make you group. Problem IMO is and always has been that grouping isn't optimized yet in the game. ZOS mistake was to lower the difficulty instead of fixing grouping
See this right here is the real problem. NO, it was NOT hard actually. It was exactly where it needed to be. I enjoyed the heck out of it too, way more that the 1-50 stuff. Let alone vet dungeons and Trials which were very nice for a raider like me.
Yet as usual, there is always the din of voices clammoring that this or that is "too hard" - players that group as well as solo players do this.
The expectation is that one should just faceroll everything in the game all the time and never die once, or have to stop for two lousy seconds on the fast track to insta-cap and actually use some noodle before going in all Leroy Jenkins into a pack of mobs that just might kick their booty if they didn't consider a different approach.
Trust me, those of us playing here who feel this way about content - group or solo content - spend far more time feeling "shafted" than any other subset of players I can think of. You really think there should be a string a videos from guilds posted with naked runs of AA because the content is just too hard?? Come on....lol
Meh ---- in the end the problem with MMOs in general is that because they have to cater all playstles they are virtually required to make content that on the one hand requires no skill or forethought whatsoever to complete along with more challenging content. Then we end up with the inevitable rift between groups of alienated players attacking each other for"doing it wrong" either way.
All this being said, the endless arguing over more or less solo content does nothing. Content for everyone and all types is a challenge to produce and unfortunately in ZoS's case, they have not proven to be particularly skilled in developing and delivering that in a consistent manner let alone with good timing. The game is still incredibly new and it has a long way to go before it gets optimized down to clockwork - if it ever gets there. What game did?
Why did SWTOR fail? It had a great solo-play story line but end game content was a flop so people just didn't stick to the game and left. Remember that in an MMORPG, the solo content is supposed to be a learning curve to develop your character & hone your skills before engaging in grouped, end game multiplayer content.
TESO was clearly released unfinished and lacking any endgame content which is what ZOS is trying to address with increasing levels of difficulty. AA & Hel Ra made people rethink their builds and actually use and understand why they where using their ultimates like Negate, nova etc etc..
The release of Hard Modes was made to quench the thirst for even harder content for groups that did runs after runs of AA in ~13 min, where fully stuffed and had nothing else to do than speedruns.
Now they are releasing Arena for groups of 4 players who want to engage in actual challenging content (Crypt of Hearts is a joke compared to Arena, even Normal Mode) and a new trial that no guild has been able to complete yet (granted if we all had our characters & stuff from live server, things would probably go faster).
This means that ZOS has learn't from SWTOR failure, that they are satisfied with the extend of the easy-solo content and are aiming to please the more hardcore/endgame players (note that a great number of Hardcore guilds quit the game before summer because the game just wasn't challenging enough for them). Hardcore guilds create content & publicity, communitiesn they bring players, they make content that makes non hardcore players dream (in the good way) and try harder to be on par.
In the end it's all about money. Solo players will never be satisfied in an MMORPG because some content will never be accessible to them and will end up unsubing. MMO players and hardcore players will keep playing as long as they have challenging multiplayer content to do and a nice side story on the side for those who like that.
Despite the cry and rage we can see in forums, there are probably more MMO & Hardcore players than solo players (like in any MMO) and ZOS clearly wants to please them with the new updates that are coming in order to avoid a SWTOR-like fisaco.
The difference between this MMO and the others (just like SWTOR) is that it's based on the lore and history introduced in solo games.
Let's hope ZOS keeps doing what they are doing and doesn't end up like SWTOR. It's better to loose some solo-players that to go F2P because all the players that reach endgame stop playing.
There is so much pompous bombast and nonsense in this post that my head is spinning faster than a tornado. Why exactly must this game be like every other MMO out there? Why can it not create its own identity and rules? More importantly, why does it need to obey the MMO rules which exist in your head?
I do need to give you credit for making me laugh when you said hardcore players/guilds create publicity for games. You then went on to top yourself by saying there are more hardcore players than solo players in this game - a fact that is easily disputed by wandering into any zone in this game. I thought ZOS was clueless about this game's player base but you may have just trumped them with that whopper of a delusion.7 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LonePirate wrote: »Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Group content belongs into an MMO to not have it would be pretty bad by ZO.
SWTOR on release was pretty well done, so was WOW. You had zones and at these zones you have regular quests for solo gamers, group / elite quests for smaller groups and world bosses for 20 or more people. It creates a whole new atmosphere for players and a rock solid community to work with in future.
The current system at WOW but also ESO is doomed as you do everything solo and only the raids require a group. Of course people will then get angry if in every patch only raid content is added, but the problem isn't that content its the lack of it pre VR 12 and its alternative on VR 14.
Quoted for truth. Games nowadays never even get to foster much of a community because 99% of the content is soloable easily, and no one really needs eachother but for competitive pvp and raids.
That's why VR zones where HARD, to make you group. Problem IMO is and always has been that grouping isn't optimized yet in the game. ZOS mistake was to lower the difficulty instead of fixing grouping
See this right here is the real problem. NO, it was NOT hard actually. It was exactly where it needed to be. I enjoyed the heck out of it too, way more that the 1-50 stuff. Let alone vet dungeons and Trials which were very nice for a raider like me.
Yet as usual, there is always the din of voices clammoring that this or that is "too hard" - players that group as well as solo players do this.
The expectation is that one should just faceroll everything in the game all the time and never die once, or have to stop for two lousy seconds on the fast track to insta-cap and actually use some noodle before going in all Leroy Jenkins into a pack of mobs that just might kick their booty if they didn't consider a different approach.
Trust me, those of us playing here who feel this way about content - group or solo content - spend far more time feeling "shafted" than any other subset of players I can think of. You really think there should be a string a videos from guilds posted with naked runs of AA because the content is just too hard?? Come on....lol
Meh ---- in the end the problem with MMOs in general is that because they have to cater all playstles they are virtually required to make content that on the one hand requires no skill or forethought whatsoever to complete along with more challenging content. Then we end up with the inevitable rift between groups of alienated players attacking each other for"doing it wrong" either way.
All this being said, the endless arguing over more or less solo content does nothing. Content for everyone and all types is a challenge to produce and unfortunately in ZoS's case, they have not proven to be particularly skilled in developing and delivering that in a consistent manner let alone with good timing. The game is still incredibly new and it has a long way to go before it gets optimized down to clockwork - if it ever gets there. What game did?
Why did SWTOR fail? It had a great solo-play story line but end game content was a flop so people just didn't stick to the game and left. Remember that in an MMORPG, the solo content is supposed to be a learning curve to develop your character & hone your skills before engaging in grouped, end game multiplayer content.
TESO was clearly released unfinished and lacking any endgame content which is what ZOS is trying to address with increasing levels of difficulty. AA & Hel Ra made people rethink their builds and actually use and understand why they where using their ultimates like Negate, nova etc etc..
The release of Hard Modes was made to quench the thirst for even harder content for groups that did runs after runs of AA in ~13 min, where fully stuffed and had nothing else to do than speedruns.
Now they are releasing Arena for groups of 4 players who want to engage in actual challenging content (Crypt of Hearts is a joke compared to Arena, even Normal Mode) and a new trial that no guild has been able to complete yet (granted if we all had our characters & stuff from live server, things would probably go faster).
This means that ZOS has learn't from SWTOR failure, that they are satisfied with the extend of the easy-solo content and are aiming to please the more hardcore/endgame players (note that a great number of Hardcore guilds quit the game before summer because the game just wasn't challenging enough for them). Hardcore guilds create content & publicity, communitiesn they bring players, they make content that makes non hardcore players dream (in the good way) and try harder to be on par.
In the end it's all about money. Solo players will never be satisfied in an MMORPG because some content will never be accessible to them and will end up unsubing. MMO players and hardcore players will keep playing as long as they have challenging multiplayer content to do and a nice side story on the side for those who like that.
Despite the cry and rage we can see in forums, there are probably more MMO & Hardcore players than solo players (like in any MMO) and ZOS clearly wants to please them with the new updates that are coming in order to avoid a SWTOR-like fisaco.
The difference between this MMO and the others (just like SWTOR) is that it's based on the lore and history introduced in solo games.
Let's hope ZOS keeps doing what they are doing and doesn't end up like SWTOR. It's better to loose some solo-players that to go F2P because all the players that reach endgame stop playing.
There is so much pompous bombast and nonsense in this post that my head is spinning faster than a tornado. Why exactly must this game be like every other MMO out there? Why can it not create its own identity and rules? More importantly, why does it need to obey the MMO rules which exist in your head?
I do need to give you credit for making me laugh when you said hardcore players/guilds create publicity for games. You then went on to top yourself by saying there are more hardcore players than solo players in this game - a fact that is easily disputed by wandering into any zone in this game. I thought ZOS was clueless about this game's player base but you may have just trumped them with that whopper of a delusion.
I'm saying it mustn't be like other games, aka SWTOR which was a failure. Making more solo content and not end game content in a game that cleary needs end game and not solo content, would be being like some other MMO games who failed
.
As for laughing you could start by laughing at your amazingly low reading skills, I said there are more MMO & hardcore players than solo players, most of them being ofc MMO players, didn't think I had to clarify this but obviously some people are just...
I hope you do realize Your whole post is a failure since your two points come from nowhere mr @LonePirate
Credit to you for making me laugh about how ridiculous your flame attempt was though Edited by TehMagnus on August 27, 2014 2:09PM4 -
Morvoldo✭✭But Like SWTOR it was still single player with OPtional group dungeons and you still leveled to top level at time 50 (now 55 Makeb) which we all know was a waste of time.
But you still solo leveled to top level before Hard instances was available
SWTOR failed on several things =
No extended Class Story
Not enough end game content
Too Linear driven world with no exploration for a standard MMO
too name a few
plus EA planed to make it F2P in fact B2W because they got more money for it (greedy company)
Now WOW may be easymode now but it still has entertaining aspects like=
Solo Daily's
Group daily's
Tones of PVP
arenas
and end game content ie RAIDS with very rewarding items
now pokemon (still entertainingly funny)
and thats only a fraction of it
but most of those still had the Single player leveling aspect to 90 (top level now)
and you dont have to Group for any of it until Endgame if u dont want to, Unlike this game.
i love ESO but they shouldnt have done it like this.Edited by Morvoldo on August 27, 2014 2:33PM0 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Group content belongs into an MMO to not have it would be pretty bad by ZO.
SWTOR on release was pretty well done, so was WOW. You had zones and at these zones you have regular quests for solo gamers, group / elite quests for smaller groups and world bosses for 20 or more people. It creates a whole new atmosphere for players and a rock solid community to work with in future.
The current system at WOW but also ESO is doomed as you do everything solo and only the raids require a group. Of course people will then get angry if in every patch only raid content is added, but the problem isn't that content its the lack of it pre VR 12 and its alternative on VR 14.
Quoted for truth. Games nowadays never even get to foster much of a community because 99% of the content is soloable easily, and no one really needs eachother but for competitive pvp and raids.
That's why VR zones where HARD, to make you group. Problem IMO is and always has been that grouping isn't optimized yet in the game. ZOS mistake was to lower the difficulty instead of fixing grouping
See this right here is the real problem. NO, it was NOT hard actually. It was exactly where it needed to be. I enjoyed the heck out of it too, way more that the 1-50 stuff. Let alone vet dungeons and Trials which were very nice for a raider like me.
Yet as usual, there is always the din of voices clammoring that this or that is "too hard" - players that group as well as solo players do this.
The expectation is that one should just faceroll everything in the game all the time and never die once, or have to stop for two lousy seconds on the fast track to insta-cap and actually use some noodle before going in all Leroy Jenkins into a pack of mobs that just might kick their booty if they didn't consider a different approach.
Trust me, those of us playing here who feel this way about content - group or solo content - spend far more time feeling "shafted" than any other subset of players I can think of. You really think there should be a string a videos from guilds posted with naked runs of AA because the content is just too hard?? Come on....lol
Meh ---- in the end the problem with MMOs in general is that because they have to cater all playstles they are virtually required to make content that on the one hand requires no skill or forethought whatsoever to complete along with more challenging content. Then we end up with the inevitable rift between groups of alienated players attacking each other for"doing it wrong" either way.
All this being said, the endless arguing over more or less solo content does nothing. Content for everyone and all types is a challenge to produce and unfortunately in ZoS's case, they have not proven to be particularly skilled in developing and delivering that in a consistent manner let alone with good timing. The game is still incredibly new and it has a long way to go before it gets optimized down to clockwork - if it ever gets there. What game did?
Why did SWTOR fail? It had a great solo-play story line but end game content was a flop so people just didn't stick to the game and left. Remember that in an MMORPG, the solo content is supposed to be a learning curve to develop your character & hone your skills before engaging in grouped, end game multiplayer content.
TESO was clearly released unfinished and lacking any endgame content which is what ZOS is trying to address with increasing levels of difficulty. AA & Hel Ra made people rethink their builds and actually use and understand why they where using their ultimates like Negate, nova etc etc..
The release of Hard Modes was made to quench the thirst for even harder content for groups that did runs after runs of AA in ~13 min, where fully stuffed and had nothing else to do than speedruns.
Now they are releasing Arena for groups of 4 players who want to engage in actual challenging content (Crypt of Hearts is a joke compared to Arena, even Normal Mode) and a new trial that no guild has been able to complete yet (granted if we all had our characters & stuff from live server, things would probably go faster).
This means that ZOS has learn't from SWTOR failure, that they are satisfied with the extend of the easy-solo content and are aiming to please the more hardcore/endgame players (note that a great number of Hardcore guilds quit the game before summer because the game just wasn't challenging enough for them). Hardcore guilds create content & publicity, communitiesn they bring players, they make content that makes non hardcore players dream (in the good way) and try harder to be on par.
In the end it's all about money. Solo players will never be satisfied in an MMORPG because some content will never be accessible to them and will end up unsubing. MMO players and hardcore players will keep playing as long as they have challenging multiplayer content to do and a nice side story on the side for those who like that.
Despite the cry and rage we can see in forums, there are probably more MMO & Hardcore players than solo players (like in any MMO) and ZOS clearly wants to please them with the new updates that are coming in order to avoid a SWTOR-like fisaco.
The difference between this MMO and the others (just like SWTOR) is that it's based on the lore and history introduced in solo games.
Let's hope ZOS keeps doing what they are doing and doesn't end up like SWTOR. It's better to loose some solo-players that to go F2P because all the players that reach endgame stop playing.
This is one of the most delusional calls i ever saw on a MMO forum.
Mate , get real.
The amount of casuals , be them solo/group... ANY GROUP of casuals really , will blast the amount of harcore ANYTHING out of the window , on any themepark MMO like ESO lols.
I never saw someone actually try to make a call that the hardcore are a majority group, because it is just ridiculous really.
And dont lump MMO players in that mess , many MMO player are SOLO PLAYERS , ESO just sucks on this endgame, which is not a flaw every game share.Alphashado wrote: »Should there be more ways to get your character to lvl cap w/o being forced into a group? Yes.
Does that mean you should be allowed to solo every ounce of content in the game? No.
Which IS the issue and it is the reason solo player are shafted.
They did it once with VR12 and they are doing it again with VR14 , which many thought they wouldnt do since they like you said recognize it was a mistake.
But even then they are doing the same mistake AGAIN.
The simple reality is , ESO has no endgame solo PvE content , which many can accept and wait for the new zone while they hunt achivs and so on , BUT the only way to lvl cap shoundt be by doing craglorn.
Which is the reason tons of players will be once again forced to grind the crap out of that place even the content there is completely irrelevant to them.Edited by Nox_Aeterna on August 27, 2014 2:46PM"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor4 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »Once again I challenge you to name me one successful MMO that has EVER created endgame group and raid content that was also designed to be solo'd.
The others games don't even try creating endgame group content that is also designed to be soloed because... well... they always provide a soloable path to max level (including many Korean grinders).
People are asking for solo content because otherwise they simply can't level up.
Also, you can claim all the good XP in 4 men Craglorn instances and it's still irrelevant, since by dumb boss grinding you make 10+ times more and quicker while not dying once. In fact, guess what, I can ALWAYS (even deep in the night) find groups for XP grinding of all kinds (bosses / anomalies / Hircine), whereas in 2 months I have found 3 groups for 4 men. One of those 3 groups was my guild mates, the only day we could not do trials so they reluctantly accepted to do Craglorn instances. For 2 hours.
Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO1 -
leandro.800ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭I got to VR12 only doing solo stuff so..... apart from occasional group for dungeon or anchorEdited by leandro.800ub17_ESO on August 27, 2014 2:47PM3 -
LonePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Nox_Aeterna wrote: »The simple reality is , ESO has no endgame solo PvE content , which many can accept and wait for the new zone while they hunt achivs and so on , BUT the only way to lvl cap shoundt be by doing craglorn.
All of the Cyrodiil city and Fighters Guild quests could be described as end-game content. They were the primary means of how I leveled my character from VR1 to VR8.5 before Craglorn hit. I would have used them to hit VR10 if Craglorn had not arrived and raised the level cap to VR12.
With 1.4, three endgame crafting quests are being added so I guess that is a start.
Edited by LonePirate on August 27, 2014 2:57PM1 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »I got to VR12 only doing solo stuff so..... apart from occasional group for dungeon or anchor
How so? There are people on this thread that say such a thing is impossible.
/Sarcasm off. Of course it is possible. Just not very easy. ZoS just needs more time to balance things out. They can't do everything at once.
Edited by Alphashado on August 27, 2014 3:04PM1 -
DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sure this was already said, but...
You are annoyed that they are putting in more group content for an MMO...
Hmmm interesting.3 -
LonePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »I got to VR12 only doing solo stuff so..... apart from occasional group for dungeon or anchor
How so? There are people on this thread that say such a thing is impossible.
See my previous post. It can be done via plenty of repetition of the Cyrodiil city and Fighters Guild quests.
1 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Two new preferences (three, sorta), one new option:
Implement scaling. All content, solo or group, then has replay value. You don't come in too strong (bored solo VR12's), and you don't come in too weak.
Correct phasing (this is currently in test in 1.4) so you can get group help when you need to.
Implement optional phasing, so you can solo when you don't want as much help or want more challenge.
Lastly have the option to earn/employee the services of NPC's (gold only or via quest, no real $ here) to fill in some of the group blanks.
This would be similar to what was available in Oblivion (TES IV) and not usable in PvP (I know the mercenary issue was a touchy one) but perhaps or PvE areas.
You'd have to pay them, you'd have a certain reduction in loot/XP's/VP's accordingly, but it would be an alternative.
This would allow people to peruse group areas while remaining effectively solo.
Granted, the NPC's should be less effective (and would be, by default, I'm sure) than another actual individual.Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS1 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Group content belongs into an MMO to not have it would be pretty bad by ZO.
SWTOR on release was pretty well done, so was WOW. You had zones and at these zones you have regular quests for solo gamers, group / elite quests for smaller groups and world bosses for 20 or more people. It creates a whole new atmosphere for players and a rock solid community to work with in future.
The current system at WOW but also ESO is doomed as you do everything solo and only the raids require a group. Of course people will then get angry if in every patch only raid content is added, but the problem isn't that content its the lack of it pre VR 12 and its alternative on VR 14.
Quoted for truth. Games nowadays never even get to foster much of a community because 99% of the content is soloable easily, and no one really needs eachother but for competitive pvp and raids.
That's why VR zones where HARD, to make you group. Problem IMO is and always has been that grouping isn't optimized yet in the game. ZOS mistake was to lower the difficulty instead of fixing grouping
See this right here is the real problem. NO, it was NOT hard actually. It was exactly where it needed to be. I enjoyed the heck out of it too, way more that the 1-50 stuff. Let alone vet dungeons and Trials which were very nice for a raider like me.
Yet as usual, there is always the din of voices clammoring that this or that is "too hard" - players that group as well as solo players do this.
The expectation is that one should just faceroll everything in the game all the time and never die once, or have to stop for two lousy seconds on the fast track to insta-cap and actually use some noodle before going in all Leroy Jenkins into a pack of mobs that just might kick their booty if they didn't consider a different approach.
Trust me, those of us playing here who feel this way about content - group or solo content - spend far more time feeling "shafted" than any other subset of players I can think of. You really think there should be a string a videos from guilds posted with naked runs of AA because the content is just too hard?? Come on....lol
Meh ---- in the end the problem with MMOs in general is that because they have to cater all playstles they are virtually required to make content that on the one hand requires no skill or forethought whatsoever to complete along with more challenging content. Then we end up with the inevitable rift between groups of alienated players attacking each other for"doing it wrong" either way.
All this being said, the endless arguing over more or less solo content does nothing. Content for everyone and all types is a challenge to produce and unfortunately in ZoS's case, they have not proven to be particularly skilled in developing and delivering that in a consistent manner let alone with good timing. The game is still incredibly new and it has a long way to go before it gets optimized down to clockwork - if it ever gets there. What game did?
Why did SWTOR fail? It had a great solo-play story line but end game content was a flop so people just didn't stick to the game and left. Remember that in an MMORPG, the solo content is supposed to be a learning curve to develop your character & hone your skills before engaging in grouped, end game multiplayer content.
TESO was clearly released unfinished and lacking any endgame content which is what ZOS is trying to address with increasing levels of difficulty. AA & Hel Ra made people rethink their builds and actually use and understand why they where using their ultimates like Negate, nova etc etc..
The release of Hard Modes was made to quench the thirst for even harder content for groups that did runs after runs of AA in ~13 min, where fully stuffed and had nothing else to do than speedruns.
Now they are releasing Arena for groups of 4 players who want to engage in actual challenging content (Crypt of Hearts is a joke compared to Arena, even Normal Mode) and a new trial that no guild has been able to complete yet (granted if we all had our characters & stuff from live server, things would probably go faster).
This means that ZOS has learn't from SWTOR failure, that they are satisfied with the extend of the easy-solo content and are aiming to please the more hardcore/endgame players (note that a great number of Hardcore guilds quit the game before summer because the game just wasn't challenging enough for them). Hardcore guilds create content & publicity, communitiesn they bring players, they make content that makes non hardcore players dream (in the good way) and try harder to be on par.
In the end it's all about money. Solo players will never be satisfied in an MMORPG because some content will never be accessible to them and will end up unsubing. MMO players and hardcore players will keep playing as long as they have challenging multiplayer content to do and a nice side story on the side for those who like that.
Despite the cry and rage we can see in forums, there are probably more MMO & Hardcore players than solo players (like in any MMO) and ZOS clearly wants to please them with the new updates that are coming in order to avoid a SWTOR-like fisaco.
The difference between this MMO and the others (just like SWTOR) is that it's based on the lore and history introduced in solo games.
Let's hope ZOS keeps doing what they are doing and doesn't end up like SWTOR. It's better to loose some solo-players that to go F2P because all the players that reach endgame stop playing.
This is one of the most delusional calls i ever saw on a MMO forum.
Mate , get real.
The amount of casuals , be them solo/group... ANY GROUP of casuals really , will blast the amount of harcore ANYTHING out of the window , on any themepark MMO like ESO lols.
I never saw someone actually try to make a call that the hardcore are a majority group, because it is just ridiculous really.
And dont lump MMO players in that mess , many MMO player are SOLO PLAYERS , ESO just sucks on this endgame, which is not a flaw every game share.
People are really blind, I said MMO AND Hardcore players > to pure solo players. I never implied there where more HC than solo players.
As much as I understand it's enjoyable to say "Nonesence, Hardcore Players are never more in number than solo players", please o PLEASE, LEARN TO READ.
And the amount of casuals that want to play in an MMOG aka with grouped content sure as hell is higher than the amount of casuals that want to solo the game and have nothing to do with grouping or playing with other people (since it's not the purpose of an MMORPG).
Edited by TehMagnus on August 27, 2014 3:08PM2 -
yiasemi✭✭✭✭I presume the shafting needs an add on btw? How odd and may I say refreshing that so many posts are censored but the image of rogered soloists smoking in post-coital bliss with the latest patch remains.2
-
leandro.800ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭
I took my time around all zones , did not rush anything , looked for achievements ,chests , books, some theory crafting , almost no PVP (just pve quests and dungeons)Alphashado wrote: »leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »I got to VR12 only doing solo stuff so..... apart from occasional group for dungeon or anchor
How so? There are people on this thread that say such a thing is impossible.
/Sarcasm off. Of course it is possible. Just not very easy. ZoS just needs more time to balance things out. They can't do everything at once.
To be honest i got to 75% of VR11 but that's pretty much the same2 -
Emeliana✭✭✭LonePirate wrote: »In case anyone was unaware, the current 1.4 update on the PTS contains new one time only certification quests for all six crafting skills which new low level players and existing players (even VR12s) can complete as solo quests. VR (all?) layers also have three new repeatable crafting quests for Blacksmithing, Clothing and Woodworking which require the player to craft some gear and deliver it to Craglorn. The certification quests offer 47 gold, quest XP, crafting inspiration points and some crafting related items like hemming or water, for instance. The tea crafting quests pay 302 gold and offer quest XP. I am unsure if non-VR characters have alternatives to these gear crafting quests.
Could you please explain this a little further? Because there's n.o.t.h.i.n.g. said about this in the official patch-notes, only that Enchanting leveling/extraction is going to be changed.
To me this sounds as if crafters have to 're-learn' their trade by questing for a Certificate. What with my crafting levels which nearly all of them are up to lvl 50? I won't be allowed to craft without questing first??
0