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Any word on the ridiculous sneak speeds?
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dsalter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rophez_ESO wrote: »Don't get me wrong. I'm actually enjoying using the nights silence plus vampire sneak passive. I'm just really wondering if it's intended. I know there are also nightblades that can achieve even faster speeds - almost horse speeds, while sneaking! I mean seriously, I don't even sprint anymore I just stay crouched and I run around almost as fast as my horse.
I understand people who really are enjoying themselves and don't want this to change - it is fun running superfast all the time, especially when you're hiding, but I just feel kind of dirty doing it.
I really think ZOS just needs to put a cap on sneak speed. It doesn't make sense to ever be able to sneak faster than you can sprint!
this set gives builds like mine an ability to actualy stealth initiate. without them, non-NB suck at stealthing. need to remember the 5 set is nullified when discovered, no invisibility potion nor invis move will reactivate it when your in combat and you cant stealth with a scroll so the only harm i see it doing is being fast. thats really it. your dumping an offensive or defencive combat 5 set to move faster while sneaking.PLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread
EU - [Arch Mage Dave] Altmer Sorcerer
Fight back at the crates and boxes, together we can change things.4 -
Leovolao✭✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Guys seriously what is the actual complaint? That it negates horses? It still eats your stamina even with medium armor passives you have to constantly consume stamina pots. It doesn't give you any bonuses to damage. Why would you think it's unintentional? The two abilities both increase movement speed while sneaking and they are from completely different things. How is this OP?
I don't have a problem with sneak speeds, but I do remember that the reasons for nerfing BE were very similar to what you are saying here and many people complained it was OP. Oh the internet.tea pot
"What if my problem wasn't that I don't understand people but that I don't like them?"1 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭rophez_ESO wrote: »
I'll let you in on a little secret: even if you aren't a NB, you can vanish. Just buy a stack of invis pots (3 seconds vanish + 30% speed boost). If you are in combat, hit crouch (CTRL), hit Q (invis potion), run away at super fast speed - you're out of combat before the vanish is gone. Cheers!
I'll let you in on a little secret.
I've been crafting and using invisibility potions since Beta.
They don't remove you from combat.
I suppose someone could use the speed burst to break aggro range from mobs though.
Invisibility potions are also easily countered by a Detection potion in PvP, which makes me laugh every time someone goes invisible (either potion or Nightblade Shadow Cloak) and I instantly am able to target and kill them anyway.
Night's Silence set won't activate at all while detected.smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Okay well, there is nothing wrong with it. You need 5 items, which means you are giving up a different set bonus for the speed and it still costs stamina. I'm sorry that it bothers you, but this is not something that needs correcting.rophez_ESO wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Are you serious?
Super seriously.
I galloped a speed-enhanced horse between 2 AD castles while another AD alongside me stealthed his way there.
[ETA: We did this to get to a castle that was under attack, so we were both making all possible haste.]
Are you really saying that the stealther ought to have gone the whole distance while stealthed at the same rate that my horse did?
I have tested racing against horses with the leather saddle (white, not brown) and I never beat them. That's with concealed weapon (which I swear sometimes causes me to slow down, it's buggy) night's silence set, and dark stalker.
I always lose the race, every time.
I don't know what people are talking about if they are going equal to or as fast as a horse.
If I use speed potions I can keep pace with people on horses for 10 seconds.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Guys seriously what is the actual complaint? That it negates horses? It still eats your stamina even with medium armor passives you have to constantly consume stamina pots. It doesn't give you any bonuses to damage. Why would you think it's unintentional? The two abilities both increase movement speed while sneaking and they are from completely different things. How is this OP?
I don't have a problem with sneak speeds, but I do remember that the reasons for nerfing BE were very similar to what you are saying here and many people complained it was OP. Oh the internet.
If the set bonus were available in combat, or activated with Nightblade's Cloak skill, I would say nerf it to the ground.
Neither applies though."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Guys seriously what is the actual complaint? That it negates horses? It still eats your stamina even with medium armor passives you have to constantly consume stamina pots. It doesn't give you any bonuses to damage. Why would you think it's unintentional? The two abilities both increase movement speed while sneaking and they are from completely different things. How is this OP?
I don't have a problem with sneak speeds, but I do remember that the reasons for nerfing BE were very similar to what you are saying here and many people complained it was OP. Oh the internet.
no the reason for nerfing BE is because the caster is actually displaced some distance away and can then spam it.
You actually have to move that distance with this set, and since you can't do it in combat, the complaint is not relevant. It's not a get out of jail free card liek BE was (and is.)Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.5 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just buff horse speed and sprint speed. Problem solved and you now can get across Cyrodill much easier all around.Edited by technohic on August 26, 2014 7:05PM1 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Guys seriously what is the actual complaint? That it negates horses? It still eats your stamina even with medium armor passives you have to constantly consume stamina pots. It doesn't give you any bonuses to damage. Why would you think it's unintentional? The two abilities both increase movement speed while sneaking and they are from completely different things. How is this OP?
I don't have a problem with sneak speeds, but I do remember that the reasons for nerfing BE were very similar to what you are saying here and many people complained it was OP. Oh the internet.
That would be great honestly! Slightly increase the cost in a way that it will be used exactly as much as before but add in the ability to pull others out of stealth when we go near them, damage them and stun them. I would take that trade in a heart beat!0 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Can we please put this matter to rest. I don't like Impulse but I don't rage about it constantly.stewie_801 wrote: »I've talked with custom support about the set, I use it on my NB vampire with concealed weapon, while asking about a few other things in the game. That person went and asked, came back, and said it was working as intended. This was just a week or two ago.
Personally I mentioned that there should be a counter to sorcerers bolt escaping away, and I mentioned both having to make a decision to be a vamp, with both its pros and cons, while also giving up a 5 piece set to get the bonus. Being as I am magicka based, getting a bonus of max stam and stam recovery does put a hamper into my stats elsewhere.
As far as catching speed horses, that does require a speed potion to do and depending on the distance, is still no guarantee to catch.
Edit: CS also said vampires were suppose to be fast in stealth, and since from whoever he asked said it was working as intended, if the team who works on balancing ever felt it was out of balance, then they would look at changing it.
:trollin:1 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Maybe the potions work like that. Unfortunately our invisibility isn't so reliable.rophez_ESO wrote: »
I'll let you in on a little secret: even if you aren't a NB, you can vanish. Just buy a stack of invis pots (3 seconds vanish + 30% speed boost). If you are in combat, hit crouch (CTRL), hit Q (invis potion), run away at super fast speed - you're out of combat before the vanish is gone. Cheers!
:trollin:1 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Dude are you serious? If you're trying to goad me into a fight you'll have to do better than that. You probably live 1,000 miles from me and I'd bank that you're 14 years old. But it is amusing.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
There were no words that I could offer that wouldn't have been insulting.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Wow...what a quality response.
Comes from a lifetime of hiding behind a computer screen I would guess...
Exactly. Keep hiding little child...
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EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭The stacking effect of all the sneak speed bonuses does provide some insane levels of sneak speed but it has ZERO use in combat and comes with serious penalties. None of them on their own is *that* fast but each one stacked adds to the speed because each of them also add additional penalties.
If you wear the set..you get a significant opportunity cost penalty of missing out on much more useful/powerful set bonuses for combat.
If you are a vampire..you have serious fire resist issues requiring FR gear that also has the opportunity cost of gear that could improve DPS, survivability or utility. You also have serious health regen issues that need to be compensated for as well. You also look ugly as hell (the worst penalty of all!)
If you use concealed weapon..you give up a much better morph option for combat and again..concealed weapon does nothing for you in combat.
The only real combat related use this stacked stealth speed has is an enhanced scout ability in Cyrodiil..which is really not a combat ability. Why not allow for some characters to excel in a non-combat role that could still be useful and for which they will be at a distinct disadvantage for once in combat? Diversity is a good thing.
Edited by EQBallzz on August 26, 2014 7:31PM9 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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The reason is because they fear us vampire Nightblades are now granted some sort of godmode with the Night's Silence set and they are scared s***less of us now. I for one find the entire thing amusing that this is such a big deal to anyone. I'm guessing someone already opened a tick that went something like this:The stacking effect of all the sneak speed bonuses does provide some insane levels of sneak speed but it has ZERO use in combat and comes with serious penalties. None of them on their own is *that* fast but each one stacked adds to the speed because each of them also add additional penalties.
If you wear the set..you get a significant opportunity cost penalty of missing out on much more useful/powerful set bonuses for combat.
If you are a vampire..you have serious fire resist issues requiring FR gear that also has the opportunity cost of gear that could improve DPS, survivability or utility. You also have serious health regen issues that need to be compensated for as well. You also look ugly as hell (the worst penalty of all!)
If you use concealed weapon..you give up a much better morph option for combat and again..concealed weapon does nothing for you in combat.
The only real combat related use this stacked stealth speed has is an enhanced scout ability in Cyrodiil..which is really not a combat ability. Why not allow for some characters to excel in a non-combat role that could still be useful and for which they will be at a distinct disadvantage for once in combat?
"How can we AoE zerg now with impulse if we can't see those super fast Nightblade Vampires?? Don't you realize they are going to snipe us and we have to <gasp> play tactically?! This so unfair!! Wahhh!"
Or something like that. (I added the emoji for flavor.)
:trollin:5 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don't want the set to be nerfed, but I do think that what is going on with vampires and this set is ridiculous.
I just wish they would make it so sneak bonuses don't stack with each other.2 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rophez_ESO wrote: »
I'll let you in on a little secret: even if you aren't a NB, you can vanish. Just buy a stack of invis pots (3 seconds vanish + 30% speed boost). If you are in combat, hit crouch (CTRL), hit Q (invis potion), run away at super fast speed - you're out of combat before the vanish is gone. Cheers!
The set bonus only works while you are sneaking(not just crouching, but sneaking, that means undetected). It doesn't work while you are invisible, but not sneaking. So just using an invisibility potion mid-fight won't apply the set speed, you will only get the 30% from the potion.2 -
rophez_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
The set bonus only works while you are sneaking(not just crouching, but sneaking, that means undetected). It doesn't work while you are invisible, but not sneaking. So just using an invisibility potion mid-fight won't apply the set speed, you will only get the 30% from the potion.
And the vampire, and retreating maneuver - you'll be zipped so far away in 3 seconds that when the invis drops, your combat status will drop and you'll full stealth and still have 30+30+60+whatever vamp gives you (60?). Just takes a little practice
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Guys seriously what is the actual complaint? That it negates horses? It still eats your stamina even with medium armor passives you have to constantly consume stamina pots. It doesn't give you any bonuses to damage. Why would you think it's unintentional? The two abilities both increase movement speed while sneaking and they are from completely different things. How is this OP?
I don't have a problem with sneak speeds, but I do remember that the reasons for nerfing BE were very similar to what you are saying here and many people complained it was OP. Oh the internet.
The reason for nerfing BE was that it allowed a sorc to get out of combat a little too easily. People complained that the sorc could disengage from combat and disappear into the sunset anytime the fight was starting to go south.
The set bonus does not allow this as it only works when not in combat. So i don't agree there's a similarity here.5 -
Aesthier✭✭✭✭✭Perhaps we should nerf the vampire speed buff instead of Nights silence.
Hows that for fun?3 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rophez_ESO wrote: »
The set bonus only works while you are sneaking(not just crouching, but sneaking, that means undetected). It doesn't work while you are invisible, but not sneaking. So just using an invisibility potion mid-fight won't apply the set speed, you will only get the 30% from the potion.
And the vampire, and retreating maneuver - you'll be zipped so far away in 3 seconds that when the invis drops, your combat status will drop and you'll full stealth and still have 30+30+60+whatever vamp gives you (60?). Just takes a little practice
That has nothing to do with the set bonus tho. To get the set bonus, you need to be out of combat. If mist+maneuver+potion gets you so far that the enemy stops hitting you long enough for you to drop out of combat, then you no longer need the set bonus - you are already over the hills.1 -
rophez_ESO✭✭✭✭✭That has nothing to do with the set bonus tho. To get the set bonus, you need to be out of combat. If mist+maneuver+potion gets you so far that the enemy stops hitting you long enough for you to drop out of combat, then you no longer need the set bonus - you are already over the hills.
Yeah, I agree, the set bonus is fine by itself, it's the stacking that is the issue. People argue that you can't use it to get away form combat, but invis/vanish + crouch + move away = night's silence kicks in after 3 seconds, then you can really zoom away. I'm gonna stop repeating myself, if you don't believe me, go give it a few tries.2 -
ZOS_GinaBrunoCommunity ManagerHey guys! Just want to let you know that this shouldn't actually be happening, and will be fixed once we release Update 4. Hope that clears up any confusion!26 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rophez_ESO wrote: »That has nothing to do with the set bonus tho. To get the set bonus, you need to be out of combat. If mist+maneuver+potion gets you so far that the enemy stops hitting you long enough for you to drop out of combat, then you no longer need the set bonus - you are already over the hills.
Yeah, I agree, the set bonus is fine by itself, it's the stacking that is the issue. People argue that you can't use it to get away form combat, but invis/vanish + crouch + move away = night's silence kicks in after 3 seconds, then you can really zoom away. I'm gonna stop repeating myself, if you don't believe me, go give it a few tries.
I have been playing a NB vamp as my main since release. If you can invis/vanish+crouch+move away without being detected long enough to drop out of combat, then you are already safe, and do not need the set bonus to save you.1 -
rophez_ESO✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys! Just want to let you know that this shouldn't actually be happening, and will be fixed once we release Update 4. Hope that clears up any confusion!
Thanks, Gina! Anyone with common sense could see that this stacking issue was a bit too good to be true!7 -
rophez_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I have been playing a NB vamp as my main since release. If you can invis/vanish+crouch+move away without being detected long enough to drop out of combat, then you are already safe, and do not need the set bonus to save you.
Not really - at that point a detect potion or magelight user might get lucky and move in the right direction, but with super speed, that won't be an issue.1 -
ShadowHvo✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys! Just want to let you know that this shouldn't actually be happening, and will be fixed once we release Update 4. Hope that clears up any confusion!
@ZOS_GinaBruno
Can you tell us what is going to change with it? I surely do hope you're not going to nerf vampires because people can abuse this by using a setbonus and a couple of skills just like the ultimate spam abuse?
Sorry, but it seems unfair that you guys nerf the best features of a skill-line simply because there is one specific armor set and one specific pair of skills which all combines to do "amazing" stuff.
I'm saying Amazing since you're sacrificing stupidly good stats and other setbonuses in order to achieve this specific Stealth Speed.
Please @ZOS_GinaBruno, don't whack every vampire in the face because a few decides to abuse this. Rather change the setbonus to give you something like extra damage while attacking from stealth or something, just don't nerf every single vampire out there because a few abuse this like you guys did with the Ultimate spam..Nighren - The Shadow StrikerLeader of Bloodlines-- EU --
Want to roleplay in elder scrolls online? Check out eso-rp.com9 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys! Just want to let you know that this shouldn't actually be happening, and will be fixed once we release Update 4. Hope that clears up any confusion!
No... that actually doesn't clear anything up lol., its actually quite vague.(as always)
What exactly are you fixing? Because independent of each other, the set bonus and the vampire passive are fine. The two stacking together is the problem, and hopefully what you guys will be changing.
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rophez_ESO wrote: »I have been playing a NB vamp as my main since release. If you can invis/vanish+crouch+move away without being detected long enough to drop out of combat, then you are already safe, and do not need the set bonus to save you.
Not really - at that point a detect potion or magelight user might get lucky and move in the right direction, but with super speed, that won't be an issue.
If they have a detect potion or magelight then you won't be able to get out of combat in the firstplace.1 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭rophez_ESO wrote: »
The set bonus only works while you are sneaking(not just crouching, but sneaking, that means undetected). It doesn't work while you are invisible, but not sneaking. So just using an invisibility potion mid-fight won't apply the set speed, you will only get the 30% from the potion.
And the vampire, and retreating maneuver - you'll be zipped so far away in 3 seconds that when the invis drops, your combat status will drop and you'll full stealth and still have 30+30+60+whatever vamp gives you (60?). Just takes a little practice
None of those effects have anything to do with vampire or Night's Silence.
Changing how the bonuses stack will not change the ability to perform this combo.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys! Just want to let you know that this shouldn't actually be happening, and will be fixed once we release Update 4. Hope that clears up any confusion!
@ZOS_GinaBruno
This provides more confusion by adding new questions.
Does this mean that all bonuses should not be stacking?
Night's Silence shouldn't stack with Concealed Weapon without vampire in the equation?
Concealed Weapon shouldn't stack with Vampire?
Concealed Weapon shouldn't stack with Shadow Dancer's Raiment set?
Some of these bonuses are stackable and have been stackable since before Night's Silence was ever given Sneak speed bonuses.
Is everything changing, or will the changes only be applied to certain bonuses stacking with each other?
What about other stacking speed bonuses, such as stacking Rapid Maneuvers with horseback riding; or stacking Rapid Maneuvers with Speed potions?
Should we put in a /bug report for these stacking effects as well?
Edited by Samadhi on August 26, 2014 10:00PM"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Brizz✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys! Just want to let you know that this shouldn't actually be happening, and will be fixed once we release Update 4. Hope that clears up any confusion!
@ZOS_GinaBruno
Please reconsider this change. I played around with the Night Silence Set plus vampire sneak set and it was very fun. In no way is it any different than a sorcerers ability to disengage from a fight *if built around it*. The best part is that any class can become a vampire and use this set if they choose to be a stealthy type player, but they have to sacrifice a number of things - which I feel is very balanced and very fun.
PROS:- Able to easily set up sneak attacks for bonus damage
- Faster travel than low level horse if built around stamina/medium armor
- Quick escape *IF* able to kill first target engaged with quickly to re-enter stealth (note that nightblades dark cloak or sorcerers bolt escape does not reset combat)
- Very vulnerable to fire damage and Fighter's Guild abilities (due to vampire)
- Less weapon/spell damage due to most vampires utilizing a fire resist jewelry enchant
- Sacrifice 5 items bonus to achieve Night Silence.
- Weaker while engaged in large scale/group battle due to prolonged combat
While I had a lot of fun playing this type of build, I decided that in the end I wanted more sustained damage and survivability, so I ended up dropping it for my morag tong and Ashen Grip sets. This is GOOD design, giving players diversity among different set types and play styles. I feel like this does not need a change and the game would benefit to leave it in.:.,_,.:*"'"*:.,_,.:*"'"* Guild of Shadows *"'":.,_,.:*"'"*:.,_,.:
Briizz - v14 EP Werewolf Nightblade <Former Emperor - Chillrend NA>
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Selique✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys! Just want to let you know that this shouldn't actually be happening, and will be fixed once we release Update 4. Hope that clears up any confusion!
Can you clarify that for me? Is Vampire+Night's Silence not supposed to stack? Or does it include Concealed Weapon? What is supposed to stack and what isn't?
I run Night's Silence with Concealed Weapon, and it doesn't seem to be that bad. I don't know about Vampire because I don't have the skill line. I can still sprint faster than stealthing with Night's Silence and Concealed Weapon, so I don't know if you mean they aren't supposed to stack. Just wondering
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