Any word on the ridiculous sneak speeds?

KleanZlate · August 2014

I'm a vampire NB with the Night's Silence set. Do I feel powerful in PvP? Heck no! Mostly because I'm not a very good player... yet!

While it's good to be able to travel long distances in sneak it has its drawbacks. It can be hard to be precise at that speed. I changed my Concealed Weapon to Surprise Attack because of this. The speed was just ridiculous. But it is addictive. I've made other sets for my main and the slow speed is just boring.

It doesn't really work as an escape mechanism either. As soon as you're in battle the speed bonus goes away, leaving you as a soft shell snail for the DKs, sorcs and templars to bully you. If you want to use the speed you have to go in, kill a target and get out. It's not like you can go from target to target at super speed.

eventide03b14a_ESO · August 2014

rophez_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Um...it's achieved by vampires that's why. They are not real. In most iterations, even the terrible "Twilight" series, they can move at preternatural speeds. Why is this an issue?

Okay, so just another issue of vampire benefit vs. drawback vs. werewolf balance. I can buy that. Well, I've said my piece, I'm assuming the devs are aware of this situation so we'll see how it plays out.

Cheers!

The werewolves in this game need some serious attention.

Xsorus · August 2014

It doesn't work inside of combat..I'd say its fine

Sharee · August 2014

It's really fast, however it does not hurt the game in any way. Sure, you can get from keep to keep hidden, almost as fast as on a horse. Why should that be a problem? A horse is still faster, and you give up a lot to achieve this.

You may be fast, but that does not help you in combat. Nor does it help in getting away, as the speed does not work while detected/in combat. The only practical use is that you can catch a guy riding a slow horse, that's it. And once the combat starts, he will hand you your behind because his set bonus does something to make him more powerful in combat.

I have tried the set. It was nice for moving around. But for most sneaky purposes, vampire bonus+concealed weapon is fast enough, and i don't have to gimp myself to achieve it.

OrangeTheCat · August 2014

I agree, sneaking faster than you can sprint (and faster than a horse run, if true) is wrong. Cap max sneak speed and anything above and beyond that cap could be applied to reducing stamina cost even further.

As a NB myself, I just want to be able to keep up with my party (who is usually running) while maintaining my sneak.

Aeratus · August 2014

I think the sneak speed IS overpowered.

It doesn't actually harm your combat stats as long as you don't use your sneaking set in combat. You can use the Outfitter addon to instantly switch sets just for the purposes of traveling. So press a button to equip sneak gear, then press another button to equip normal combat gear.

Meanwhile, sneak-traveling is way better than going on a horse because you don't get ganked along the way.

OrangeTheCat · August 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

Snip

Meanwhile, sneak-traveling is way better than going on a horse because you don't get ganked along the way.

Aww, but gankers actually perform a valuable service for which they get paid a little bit of XP: the majority of the time they get me to where I want to go a whole heck of a lot faster (usually a FC and sometimes just a castle). I often seek them out just for this purpose.

Just the other day I was gathering a rune in Cyrodiil and some enemy sorcerer came out of stealth right next to me. He didn't attack and I just stood there thinking I was about to get owned. We just stood there for a sec, nothing happening. I \wave and he \wave and then he started jumping in place. He wanted me to kill him so he could fast travel to wherever it was he wanted to go. I almost left but in the end I obliged him.

Aeratus · August 2014

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

Snip

Meanwhile, sneak-traveling is way better than going on a horse because you don't get ganked along the way.

Aww, but gankers actually perform a valuable service for which they get paid a little bit of XP: the majority of the time they get me to where I want to go a whole heck of a lot faster (usually a FC and sometimes just a castle). I often seek them out just for this purpose.

Just the other day I was gathering a rune in Cyrodiil and some enemy sorcerer came out of stealth right next to me. He didn't attack and I just stood there thinking I was about to get owned. We just stood there for a sec, nothing happening. I \wave and he \wave and then he started jumping in place. He wanted me to kill him so he could fast travel to wherever it was he wanted to go. I almost left but in the end I obliged him.

You're right - suicide-and-respawn-at-camp is even more overpowered than sneak traveling.

rophez_ESO · August 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

You're right - suicide-and-respawn-at-camp is even more overpowered than sneak traveling.

QFT!

Bramir · August 2014

This is a major advantage in pvp, that needs to be removed. I know it doesn't seem like a big deal for pve, which it probably isn't, but stealthed vamps moving as fast as a horse are beyond ridiculous for pvp competition.

Seriously doubt this is working as intended...

mips_winnt · August 2014

GO NIGHTBLADES!

SoulScream · August 2014

I have been surprised there hasn't been a downward adjustment to this issue.

TheBull · August 2014

This is a distraction concocted by manipulative, streaking sorcerers.

Saet · August 2014

We told them this would be crazy fast back on the PTS. It would be utterly stupid for them to go back and say "oops! It wasn't intended to be that way" now. But that honestly wouldn't surprise me.

Gilvoth · August 2014

theres nothing wrong with it, and to be honest it's not fast enough.
immediatly if im even 1 small HAIR eye open in sneak i will loose all sneak speeds. nothing about it is involved in pvp. it only works when traveling from point A to point B
and by the way since theres a complaint about it, let me ask you one simple question that i promise will end all this entire discussion.

when your being attacked by some one or when your traveling out in the OPEN and your horse or out in the OPEN walking or running to a place and right beside you is a nightblade on your side and in your alliance, totaly hidden and traveling right next to you in your alliance and your attacked and almost dead. do you prefer that nightblade be miles behind you trying desperately to catch up to you and help you? or do you prefer that nightblade who was on your side was right with you the whole way and he was able to help defend you and even made it to help you immediatly because he had high sneak speeds? i allready know the answer - i know for a fact your alliance members in sneak with the bonuses right next to you is what you would prefer.

- lets put this to rest -
there is nothing wrong or overpowered with the sneak speed bonus - it is helping every one involved on your own side and alliance and even protecting you when even you are unaware that a friendly nightblade is right nearby because he has a sneak speed.
- nothing wrong with sneak bonus because it's immediately broken if the eye of sneak is even in the Slightest is open.

GnatB · August 2014

It's pretty moronic that they implemented all the sneak improvements as a speed bonus in the first place, and not as a penalty reduction. I'm sorry to all those who really enjoy it, but you simply shouldn't be able to sneak regularly faster than you can run. Period. It just doesn't make any sort of logical sense. If a dev actually said it was working as intended, then they're just covering the fact that they're too lazy to fix it.

That said, I would argue you should be able to sprint while sneaking, at the cost of both sta wise, and with a larger detection circle. Which, if your penalty was reduced enough, could allow you to sneak faster than a run. But still not faster than a sprint.

None of the sneak described bonuses are some sort of active that turns you into a mist that can zoom unimpeded by friction, or magically makes your limbs capable of physically moving faster. Faster than run sneak is just illogical

Bramir · August 2014

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

theres nothing wrong with it, and to be honest it's not fast enough.
immediatly if im even 1 small HAIR eye open in sneak i will loose all sneak speeds. nothing about it is involved in pvp. it only works when traveling from point A to point B
and by the way since theres a complaint about it, let me ask you one simple question that i promise will end all this entire discussion.

when your being attacked by some one or when your traveling out in the OPEN and your horse or out in the OPEN walking or running to a place and right beside you is a nightblade on your side and in your alliance, totaly hidden and traveling right next to you in your alliance and your attacked and almost dead. do you prefer that nightblade be miles behind you trying desperately to catch up to you and help you? or do you prefer that nightblade who was on your side was right with you the whole way and he was able to help defend you and even made it to help you immediatly because he had high sneak speeds? i allready know the answer - i know for a fact your alliance members in sneak with the bonuses right next to you is what you would prefer.

- lets put this to rest -
there is nothing wrong or overpowered with the sneak speed bonus - it is helping every one involved on your own side and alliance and even protecting you when even you are unaware that a friendly nightblade is right nearby because he has a sneak speed.
- nothing wrong with sneak bonus because it's immediately broken if the eye of sneak is even in the Slightest is open.

I prefer the opposing NB not be able to move that quickly in stealth, because it allows them to intercept me on my horse far more easily. I even passed a NB stealth-running last night (just barely) and made a point of choosing a different route because I assumed he was exploiting and wanted nothing to do with it. Obviously he wasn't exploiting, but the fact that his movements looked so 'wrong' that I thought he was is telling...

eventide03b14a_ESO · August 2014

Bramir wrote: »

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

theres nothing wrong with it, and to be honest it's not fast enough.
immediatly if im even 1 small HAIR eye open in sneak i will loose all sneak speeds. nothing about it is involved in pvp. it only works when traveling from point A to point B
and by the way since theres a complaint about it, let me ask you one simple question that i promise will end all this entire discussion.

when your being attacked by some one or when your traveling out in the OPEN and your horse or out in the OPEN walking or running to a place and right beside you is a nightblade on your side and in your alliance, totaly hidden and traveling right next to you in your alliance and your attacked and almost dead. do you prefer that nightblade be miles behind you trying desperately to catch up to you and help you? or do you prefer that nightblade who was on your side was right with you the whole way and he was able to help defend you and even made it to help you immediatly because he had high sneak speeds? i allready know the answer - i know for a fact your alliance members in sneak with the bonuses right next to you is what you would prefer.

- lets put this to rest -
there is nothing wrong or overpowered with the sneak speed bonus - it is helping every one involved on your own side and alliance and even protecting you when even you are unaware that a friendly nightblade is right nearby because he has a sneak speed.
- nothing wrong with sneak bonus because it's immediately broken if the eye of sneak is even in the Slightest is open.

I prefer the opposing NB not be able to move that quickly in stealth, because it allows them to intercept me on my horse far more easily. I even passed a NB stealth-running last night (just barely) and made a point of choosing a different route because I assumed he was exploiting and wanted nothing to do with it. Obviously he wasn't exploiting, but the fact that his movements looked so 'wrong' that I thought he was is telling...

Though it is amusing to see people complaining about Nightblades being OP for once.

stewie_801 · August 2014

I've talked with custom support about the set, I use it on my NB vampire with concealed weapon, while asking about a few other things in the game. That person went and asked, came back, and said it was working as intended. This was just a week or two ago.

Personally I mentioned that there should be a counter to sorcerers bolt escaping away, and I mentioned both having to make a decision to be a vamp, with both its pros and cons, while also giving up a 5 piece set to get the bonus. Being as I am magicka based, getting a bonus of max stam and stam recovery does put a hamper into my stats elsewhere.

As far as catching speed horses, that does require a speed potion to do and depending on the distance, is still no guarantee to catch.

Edit: CS also said vampires were suppose to be fast in stealth, and since from whoever he asked said it was working as intended, if the team who works on balancing ever felt it was out of balance, then they would look at changing it.

Samadhi · August 2014

Bramir wrote: »

I prefer the opposing NB not be able to move that quickly in stealth, because it allows them to intercept me on my horse far more easily. ...

So you take issue with the set because it allows players to gank you on your horse?
A Nightblade doesn't need this speed to gank you on a horse; Ambush is a ranged opener that applies Sneak Attack bonus and has worked fine for ganking solo players on horses since long before this set ever gave a speed buff.

The set is fine and working as intended.
There would be a problem with it if the bonus worked in combat, but it doesn't. It only works with Sneak.
If a player needs to swap sets in order to engage in combat, that reinforces how mediocre this set is.

When I read players complaining about this set all I can see behind their text is "scouting is OP." =/

rophez_ESO · August 2014

Samadhi wrote: »

When I read players complaining about this set all I can see behind their text is "scouting is OP." =/

Scouting is cool. My main gripe is that I think it's just kinda dumb that the top 2 legged speed in this game is achievable by stealthing.

stewie_801 · August 2014

Also, the only part of this stacking that is NB specific is using concealed weapon. Anyone can become a vamp and get nights silence. Concealed allows NBs another 25%speed boost, to which plenty of NBs still prefer surprise attack for the armor reductio.

Samadhi · August 2014

rophez_ESO wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

When I read players complaining about this set all I can see behind their text is "scouting is OP." =/

Scouting is cool. My main gripe is that I think it's just kinda dumb that the top 2 legged speed in this game is achievable by stealthing.

Achievable by sneaking only while not in combat.
This set is a scouting set.

rophez_ESO · August 2014

Samadhi wrote: »

rophez_ESO wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

When I read players complaining about this set all I can see behind their text is "scouting is OP." =/

Scouting is cool. My main gripe is that I think it's just kinda dumb that the top 2 legged speed in this game is achievable by stealthing.

Achievable by sneaking only while not in combat.
This set is a scouting set.

I'll let you in on a little secret: even if you aren't a NB, you can vanish. Just buy a stack of invis pots (3 seconds vanish + 30% speed boost). If you are in combat, hit crouch (CTRL), hit Q (invis potion), run away at super fast speed - you're out of combat before the vanish is gone. Cheers!

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

twev wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

rophez_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Are you serious?

Super seriously.

Okay well, there is nothing wrong with it. You need 5 items, which means you are giving up a different set bonus for the speed and it still costs stamina. I'm sorry that it bothers you, but this is not something that needs correcting.

I galloped a speed-enhanced horse between 2 AD castles while another AD alongside me stealthed his way there.

[ETA: We did this to get to a castle that was under attack, so we were both making all possible haste.]

Are you really saying that the stealther ought to have gone the whole distance while stealthed at the same rate that my horse did?

I have tested racing against horses with the leather saddle (white, not brown) and I never beat them. That's with concealed weapon (which I swear sometimes causes me to slow down, it's buggy) night's silence set, and dark stalker.

I always lose the race, every time.

I don't know what people are talking about if they are going equal to or as fast as a horse.

kitsinni · August 2014

First off when running you have to stop for stamina which is also put at 0 regen while doing it. You will never keep up with a horse over the long haul even popping potions.

Second you can't keep up with even the slow horses with full speed.

Third go get the set and become vampire if it is so powerful sacrifice your current set bonus and go get it.

Bramir · August 2014

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

This is a major advantage in pvp, that needs to be removed. I know it doesn't seem like a big deal for pve, which it probably isn't, but stealthed vamps moving as fast as a horse are beyond ridiculous for pvp competition.

Seriously doubt this is working as intended...

Wow...what a quality response. Comes from a lifetime of hiding behind a computer screen I would guess...

There were no words that I could offer that wouldn't have been insulting.

Exactly. Keep hiding little child...

kitsinni · August 2014

Bramir wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

This is a major advantage in pvp, that needs to be removed. I know it doesn't seem like a big deal for pve, which it probably isn't, but stealthed vamps moving as fast as a horse are beyond ridiculous for pvp competition.

Seriously doubt this is working as intended...

Wow...what a quality response. Comes from a lifetime of hiding behind a computer screen I would guess...

There were no words that I could offer that wouldn't have been insulting.

Exactly. Keep hiding little child...

Nothing sounds less adult than calling someone a child.

GaldorP · August 2014

Yesterday I saw someone in Cyrodiil from my own alliance who could sneak just as fast as I could sprint on my lv 50 Light Horse (75% speed bonus). He wasn't using speed potions or that path skill from the NB that boosts speed even further just regular sneaking with the same retreating maneuver iv buff I had. We were going in the same direction for about half a minute. Was funny to watch.

Bramir · August 2014

Samadhi wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

I prefer the opposing NB not be able to move that quickly in stealth, because it allows them to intercept me on my horse far more easily. ...

So you take issue with the set because it allows players to gank you on your horse?
A Nightblade doesn't need this speed to gank you on a horse; Ambush is a ranged opener that applies Sneak Attack bonus and has worked fine for ganking solo players on horses since long before this set ever gave a speed buff.

The set is fine and working as intended.
There would be a problem with it if the bonus worked in combat, but it doesn't. It only works with Sneak.
If a player needs to swap sets in order to engage in combat, that reinforces how mediocre this set is.

When I read players complaining about this set all I can see behind their text is "scouting is OP." =/

I get ganked on my horse all the time, and I'm fine with it. However, I'm not one of those brainless zergers who rides their horse to death and then complains when they get knocked off and die. Most players fail to kill me if they are solo, so that is really not where I'm coming from.

Stealth is silly enough in pvp with the movement speed being severely reduced. You can hide in the open as easily as behind a rock, even in full heavy armor with a group of 20 people. Having stealthed players moving nearly as fast as a horse is just too much, even without the fail logic of having players move faster when stealthed than when they aren't. And as usual, the vampire skill line is a big part of the problem...