Please guys NO support TO Macro users! ruins balance and fair fight on Cyrodiil, No macros to PVP!!

Erock25 · August 2014

killerintheline9 wrote: »

This i wonder ,and agree. but still i get regular macro deaths on cyrodiil.

Not sure what you aren't understanding about this but there is a skill delay and unless you are very slow, you can easily press all the required buttons within each skill delay or you could call it animation window. The only thing a macro will give you is the best speed of light attack into instant skill into block/bash and that is just as easy to accomplish without a macro. No matter what, there is a set delay between the timing of that chain of abilities and when you can do the next one. For example in the screen shot you posted, there are only four animation windows (activating Solar Prison, casting Unstable, and two Fire Ring casts) and two of them were precast so there are only two animation windows showing on the death recap and they are the two casts of Fire Ring. No matter what macros this guy had running, he did not cast those four spells faster than anyone else could considering people without macros can easily pre-load the next spell, making it fire as soon as the animation time would allow it.

Basically what looks to me that happened is you're a vamp or have very very low spell resist and went and jumped in some Templar's Unstable Wall AOE while they had Solar Prison running and were spamming Fire Ring attacks. Macros did not have anything to do with it, if they were used at all.

Circuitous · August 2014

killerintheline9 wrote: »

the fact that crit vet 12 dies within 2-3second is done by macro, not animation cancel.

I give up. Remind me never to bother posting in a thread like this again, people are genuinely delusional.

Arsenic_Touch · August 2014

Circuitous wrote: »

killerintheline9 wrote: »

the fact that crit vet 12 dies within 2-3second is done by macro, not animation cancel.

I give up. Remind me never to bother posting in a thread like this again, people are genuinely delusional.

But hacks man. It has to be hacks!

Anu_Saukko_Tutkija · August 2014

Erock25 wrote: »

killerintheline9 wrote: »

This i wonder ,and agree. but still i get regular macro deaths on cyrodiil.

Not sure what you aren't understanding about this but there is a skill delay and unless you are very slow, you can easily press all the required buttons within each skill delay or you could call it animation window. The only thing a macro will give you is the best speed of light attack into instant skill into block/bash and that is just as easy to accomplish without a macro. No matter what, there is a set delay between the timing of that chain of abilities and when you can do the next one. For example in the screen shot you posted, there are only four animation windows (activating Solar Prison, casting Unstable, and two Fire Ring casts) and two of them were precast so there are only two animation windows showing on the death recap and they are the two casts of Fire Ring. No matter what macros this guy had running, he did not cast those four spells faster than anyone else could considering people without macros can easily pre-load the next spell, making it fire as soon as the animation time would allow it.

Basically what looks to me that happened is you're a vamp or have very very low spell resist and went and jumped in some Templar's Unstable Wall AOE while they had Solar Prison running and were spamming Fire Ring attacks. Macros did not have anything to do with it, if they were used at all.

I might just have to agree with you. Thank you for proper answer and proper way to reason your fact

Edit : At least now there should not be any wrong thoughts out there. With or without macros you still die on 2-3 seconds if you are state 1 vampire with max fire res and with 2000 spell resistance.

Outcome: I wont play on cyrodiil, more fun to you guys, like that other guy said,
i to go eat some macro-oni and cheese.

GnatB · August 2014

Erock25 wrote: »

Basically what looks to me that happened is you're a vamp or have very very low spell resist and went and jumped in some Templar's Unstable Wall AOE while they had Solar Prison running and were spamming Fire Ring attacks. Macros did not have anything to do with it, if they were used at all.

To be fair, I don't really know how to translate death recaps, as I rarely see them, and never pay attention to them, but as far as I'm aware, aren't all of the skills in evidence DoT's? How does it indicate DoT damage? Does it show each tick individualy, or just aggregate them?

And does the final hit show all the damage you got hurt for, or just whatever it took to kill you?

My *assumption* is that it aggregates them when the ability ends (or you die), and places them in order in the death recap when the last damage from the ability hit you. (i.e. Solar Prison, according to google search, does damage every 1 second. I *highly* doubt it's 1300 damage every second, that would be a smidge OP, which strongly suggest aggregate.)

So, basically, we have *no* idea when the Solar Prison or Unstable Wall were cast. Since Solar Prison lasts for 8 seconds, and Unstable Wall lasts for 3.5, assuming my interpretation is correctly, they could easily have been cast before the death recap. Leaving, as you say, Two Fire Ring attacks (maybe 3? if the last 33 damage was a fire ring that only showed the amount of damage needed to kill, and not residual dot from the previous fire ring?) as the only skills actually cast during the recap. Quite feasible by simply button mashing the 1 skill.

Smiteye · August 2014

killerintheline9 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Macros can not make abilities fire off any faster than if you pressed them yourself. Macros hurt yourself in pvp because you can't adapt on the fly.

That is false information with right componation its always faster than you would press it yourself, and it completely removes chance for human error, it is faster way to cast, and that is not fair play.

Considering how easy it is to weave light attacks and an ability I have a hard time believing *ANYONE* saying they cant do it without a cheat macro. This is one of the funniest posts I've ever read on here.

Anu_Saukko_Tutkija · August 2014

First came some kind of stun, then solar prison then UNwall, fire ring spam 3445 health to 0 on 3 seconds well i am vampire, lvl 1 when this happen i have 1750spell res 1890 armor max fire res what can be ably on. had immovable on so somewhere 2350 armor and 2190 spellres, when he hit me. Idk maybe im just poor player i can handle that, no worries.

Ojustaboo · August 2014

I'm a vamp. It's just one of those things.

Running into an enemy PvP group who are all spamming impulse with a fire staff equiped, I'm dead in seconds as are any other vamps in my group.

Whether they are using macros or not makes zero difference.

Sure sometimes it's frustrating when they keep spamming that one spell, but it doesn't stop my fun, and when in a good group with good healers, I'm not dying anymore than most other players.

Anu_Saukko_Tutkija · August 2014

Ojustaboo wrote: »

I'm a vamp. It's just one of those things.

Running into an enemy PvP group who are all spamming impulse with a fire staff equiped, I'm dead in seconds as are any other vamps in my group.

Whether they are using macros or not makes zero difference.

Sure sometimes it's frustrating when they keep spamming that one spell, but it doesn't stop my fun, and when in a good group with good healers, I'm not dying anymore than most other players.

<--- this i understand my vamp my choice to make it walking grill,shame on me quite fun still, isnt it?

There were only one xD no group

Smiteye wrote: »

killerintheline9 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Macros can not make abilities fire off any faster than if you pressed them yourself. Macros hurt yourself in pvp because you can't adapt on the fly.

That is false information with right componation its always faster than you would press it yourself, and it completely removes chance for human error, it is faster way to cast, and that is not fair play.

Considering how easy it is to weave light attacks and an ability I have a hard time believing *ANYONE* saying they cant do it without a cheat macro. This is one of the funniest posts I've ever read on here.

im glad that i made you friday better, i hope you stay happy and be that happy N'wah

Araflin · August 2014

Makkir wrote: »

I like macro-oni and cheese

Large Japanese Demon and cheese? Yum!

bennysbeastb16_ESO2 · August 2014

ViciousWayz wrote: »

There should be no macro-ing of combat abilities. If you don't want to actually play, then don't play! It's like a game genie for MMOs really, sad kinda that people will actually use this in battle. It would be nice if ZOS took an official stance against this and had a way to detect it and make it a punishable offense.

before i state my comment i dont use macros, but i do know a few people that hav certain disabilities, those people have posted on forums about equipment that can help them, macro's are very usefull for various people that may not have full functionality of both hands, (missing fingers, cerebral palsy, etc) yes they might be a small part of the community, but just because u dont seem to want macros, doesnt mean that they can be used effectively. also lets be honest anyone can buy a mouse/keyboard with those functions at very cheap price.

Mendoze · August 2014

I have met couple of players in Cyrodiil who I think use macros too. Worst case is when fully decked NB uses them, since you are dead about the time you hear the sound they made the ambush. There's 3 skills in inhuman speed and every time the exact same order and speed with same result: About 2600k health gone in a second. Like I said, you are dead about the same time your hear the sound that somebody attacked you, and then death recap comes up, so there is no time to do anything.

Normally there's at least some lag that prevents these kind of deaths, but some players seem to be able to pull this off every time. Not blaming anybody as a cheater, and maybe they just live next to the server farm and have 0 ping, but it sure raises my suspicions.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · August 2014

Mendoze wrote: »

Normally there's at least some lag that prevents these kind of deaths, but some players seem to be able to pull this off every time. Not blaming anybody as a cheater, and maybe they just live next to the server farm and have 0 ping, but it sure raises my suspicions.

GCDs and SCDs exist to prevent this sort of thing, to ensure the speed of attacks is normalised across all players, if the activity you're claiming happens (the NB attacks you refer to) then it's the game's fault that it doesn't have the mechanics to prevent it.

TBH what you describe seems way beyond 'macros' and well into game hacking territory.

Attorneyatlawl · August 2014

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Mendoze wrote: »

Normally there's at least some lag that prevents these kind of deaths, but some players seem to be able to pull this off every time. Not blaming anybody as a cheater, and maybe they just live next to the server farm and have 0 ping, but it sure raises my suspicions.

GCDs and SCDs exist to prevent this sort of thing, to ensure the speed of attacks is normalised across all players, if the activity you're claiming happens (the NB attacks you refer to) then it's the game's fault that it doesn't have the mechanics to prevent it.

TBH what you describe seems way beyond 'macros' and well into game hacking territory.

I can use Ambush from sneak on my Nightblade (with 75%+ crit and if it is a target I recognize I usually pop another 20% from a potion right before) for about 1350 on many targets then belt out a Surprise Attack for another 700-1000+ depending on the target or critting within about a second (36% dmg buff from ambush) + 1 light attack immediately after for a couple of hundred. By the time you've ported from the ambush your internal GCD is basically done bar about a tenth of a second lag at times which lets you hit the Surprise Attack, and then you cancel it into a light attack with a quick click right after pressing the hotkey for that ability. It's a simple thing to do but it does require good gear to put out that kind of damage, and/or a target with low resists/armor who is a glass cannon rather than adding any defenses like an armor rating ring.

killedbyping · August 2014

Samadhi wrote: »

I use the macro program on my Razer products in order to make it easy to use potions.

When I press a button on my mouse, Greymind add-on swaps to the potion I need, and it automatically presses Q afterward to use it.

I suppose I may get banned for it due to angry players, but it's still a better option than using the Q-Wheel.

So this is why middle mouse on Razor and Logitech mouses no longer work for Quick Slot items ?

Sindala · August 2014

If you feel the need to have/use macros in this game then I pity you.
You are obviously one of the worst PVP'ers in history and should probably go play Hello Kitty instead.

Soloeus · August 2014

Macros give an unfair timing advantage to Macroers over Non Macroers. This is cheating and needs to end.

AshySamurai · August 2014

I remembered that in FPS those who use macros are mostly banned. But this is in FPS, and with macros you gain really big advantage (almost no recoil). But in MMO macros always was a thing that not necessary, but not forbidden. And you cant hit faster than animation.I know about canceling animation, but

GnatB wrote:

Sure, you may be able to animation cancel 1/100th of a second faster. Big friggin' whoop. That isn't going to be the deciding factor in who wins.

So I dont think you get a really big advantage with macros, even with animation canceling.
BTW

it took 3,2315 seconds to death, 2 times spam cast.

In 3 sec is more than possible to die IMO.

killedbyping · August 2014

There is a delay about 1 second betwin casting spells and half a second before you can light attack after block. No macro programs can bypass that, just NO.

Using macro wont give you much advantage, you can press button with that speed by your hands no problem.
If you see freaking alot of damage in few secs, it is not Macro, it is some kind of speed hack and you should report that immediatly.

Brizz · August 2014

Also worth mentioning - not all good players are using macros. Just because you see someone using abilities quickly and are fast at animation canceling, doesn't mean they are cheating. Good players do exist.

k9mouse · August 2014

Yet another attempt of trying to turn ESO into a WoW clone... How very sad

Also, another reason I think almost all addons are just cheats. So no Macro support in addons.

ZOS can not do much about hardware support (buttons on certain KB's) for Macro use, but they can stop it by taking ingame support for it.

It is not matter of fast button clicking, my fear this will let to queuing of skills with one button click. That will be bad for the game.

cromica81_ESO · August 2014

Don't need a macro to be quick with key presses, my wife constantly gives me crap because with my mechanical keyboard the spamming of the buttons i do until the abilities go off is loud to her.

Samadhi · August 2014

killedbyping wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

I use the macro program on my Razer products in order to make it easy to use potions.

When I press a button on my mouse, Greymind add-on swaps to the potion I need, and it automatically presses Q afterward to use it.

I suppose I may get banned for it due to angry players, but it's still a better option than using the Q-Wheel.

So this is why middle mouse on Razor and Logitech mouses no longer work for Quick Slot items ?

No idea what you mean. On my 2014 Naga, I find the mouse wheel serves me far better set up for dodge roll.
Scroll forward --> Dodge forward
Scroll backward --> Dodge backward
Tilt mouse wheel right --> Dodge right
Tilt mouse wheel left --> Dodge left

I have my scroll wheel on my Nostromo.
If I scroll forward and back it zooms me in and out, as the default mouse wheel. If I hold down Q and scroll it does the same.

Could you better describe what effect the middle mouse previously had?

Obscure · August 2014

killedbyping wrote: »

There is a delay about 1 second betwin casting spells and half a second before you can light attack after block. No macro programs can bypass that, just NO.

Using macro wont give you much advantage, you can press button with that speed by your hands no problem.
If you see freaking alot of damage in few secs, it is not Macro, it is some kind of speed hack and you should report that immediatly.

Animation canceling with block and double tapping light attack then blocking again negates the delay. Hard to do with a mouse, easier to do if you use your keys, effortless if you use a macro. Makes a macro even more potent if it looks like:

1) Light Attack
2) Block
3) Light Attack
4) Light Attack
5) Block
4) Instant cast ability
5) Block
Key Press Delay 32 ms (or whatever your average ping is to the server)

It looks like your character model is having a seizure, but it worked back in the PTS when I thought what is currently considered "acceptable animation canceling", to be an exploitable design bug. Ultimately macros only confer an advantage if they exploit animation canceling. Remove animation canceling, and the ability to cast while blocking, you remove the advantage of a macro. You want to cancel an animation? You cancel the skill. You want to block instead of cast? You cancel the cast (and cannot cast until you drop your block...just like how you can't cast while you sprint or dodge).

It's truly not a problem with chaining different things together, as you mentioned there is a delay built into the game. However this delay can be circumvented with animation canceling and can be outright exploited by a macro. It's very obvious if someone is using this type of macro and it should be reported as an exploit when you see it.

Macros are otherwise harmless tools for people to optimize common key combinations, and are a scrubs scape goat to point at for the reason they lose in a fight, refusing to accept that any other player might just be better than them...I hope they leave PvP macros or not. Good riddance to bad rubbish! Unless they're AD or DC, then I hope those bad players keep showing up despite that... I could use the AP

Xanthro · August 2014

Erock25 wrote: »

Macros can not make abilities fire off any faster than if you pressed them yourself. Macros hurt yourself in pvp because you can't adapt on the fly.

Yes, they can. It doesn't always work, but you can get off spells/abilities much faster with a macro than by hand.

Erock25 · August 2014

Xanthro wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Macros can not make abilities fire off any faster than if you pressed them yourself. Macros hurt yourself in pvp because you can't adapt on the fly.

Yes, they can. It doesn't always work, but you can get off spells/abilities much faster with a macro than by hand.

@Xanthro‌ How? Describe the scenario or chain of commands which would allow you to use spells faster. Are you talking about the same thing as Obscure before you?

GnatB · August 2014

killerintheline9 wrote: »

Normally there's at least some lag that prevents these kind of deaths, but some players seem to be able to pull this off every time. Not blaming anybody as a cheater, and maybe they just live next to the server farm and have 0 ping, but it sure raises my suspicions.

Just to point out the obvious, but macros tend to be far *less* tolerant of lag than a human player is.

Samadhi wrote: »

No idea what you mean. On my 2014 Naga, I find the mouse wheel serves me far better set up for dodge roll.
Scroll forward --> Dodge forward
Scroll backward --> Dodge backward
Tilt mouse wheel right --> Dodge right
Tilt mouse wheel left --> Dodge left

Oooh, macroer! Burn him, BURN HIM!
(Afaik there's no keymapping for specific dodges, you have to macro the double click)

Though actually, that's a pretty good use for macros in this game (IMO). And seriously, if you've got a problem with that "macro", you need to seek help.

GnatB · August 2014

Obscure wrote: »

Animation canceling with block and double tapping light attack then blocking again negates the delay. Hard to do with a mouse, easier to do if you use your keys, effortless if you use a macro. Makes a macro even more potent if it looks like:

Curious, I haven't spent time messing with animation cancelling much, (I don't really PvP, or do high end PvE, so not really all that neccessary) but aren't you making it *way* more complex than it needs to be? Unless it's been changed, AFAIK, any skill will animation cancel a regular attack, and any block will animation cancel a skill.

So it's just light->skill->block, repeat. (with the correct timing depending on lag/skill) Easy Peasy.

Super_Sonico · August 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Banned for using the software that comes with your keyboard to make one button switch to the potion you want and use it in one click?

A bit harsh don't you think?

No. I agree that use like you describe should be banned. Why? Because you're exploiting your specific hardware features for in-game benefit that obviously no one else can do without that same (or similar) hardware.

I agree OP. Ban people who use macros, period. Whether in Cyrodil or in PvE space.

Personally, even addons make me weary. I use the FTC addon because I like to see numbers and know what's really happening in the game. But otherwise that's it. I am very leery of many addons as they seem to provide additional functionality that the game does not intend.

ozmorgudduth · August 2014

killerintheline9 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

I dont mind if someone uses macros. Why not? TBH I'm dont use it, but I could. First of all, we have only 6 skills. Not so much to use macros. And you dont use ultimate all time, so now we have 5 skills that we use all time (+ swap). I dont feel like I need it. But if someone want to use it - again why not?
And one more thing. If your macros "press buttons" to fast/often - you'll get kick from server. That was happend when I experimented whith quick slot wheel. So current system pretty fair for me.

You are absolutely wrong

And here is why:

Thats why you make THE delay between commands so accurate that human cant cast that fast, but macro can. And you don't have to cast often, one to 2 times is Enougth 2 players dead (1 player one fire res 1350. healt 3475, heavy armor vet 6 pink, with crit stone.1800spel res) (player 2. healt 2850 spel res 2100. ect light armor vet 11 pink stuff critstones)

on this picture example, http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=ibxmx1&s=8#.U_a6z_mSxmM

it took 3,2315 seconds to death, 2 times spam cast.

Are you really so naive to think that someone macroed 3 skills to spam them?
There is animation speed limit, you can't "spam" faster. No matter what you are doing if you mash the keyboard you spam it out exactly as fast as macro will.

1800 spell res is nothing if you will get debuffed, sometimes I melt like snow with 2.5k armor and 2.5k spell resist, and I'm no vamp.

You can easily debuff around 1000 armor in pvp without anything fancy. If you are vr12 I think you could take off around 1800 armor of a player for 5 seconds or even far more, I'm only VR9 so I'm not bothered with this yet, so the values I'm giving might be lower then they can actually get. Think about it...

Some people know what they are doing and you will die, record your pvp and analyze it, learn from your defeats...

Especially when you are made from wood soaked in gasoline, which you are as a vamp...