Nightblade Update

Jacques Berge · August 2014

Yeah, I'll upload it for you, give me a day or so

poupouilleb16_ESO · August 2014

Hi,

Maybe I'm not enought good with NB, actually there are skills that let NB to regain heal on kill (and stamina too). Why there are no skill to regain mana on kill ? Not full mana but something like increase mana regen of 50 % for 8 seconds ? (like vampire kiss set)

Thanks

Thejollygreenone · August 2014

poupouilleb16_ESO wrote: »

Hi,

Maybe I'm not enought good with NB, actually there are skills that let NB to regain heal on kill (and stamina too). Why there are no skill to regain mana on kill ? Not full mana but something like increase mana regen of 50 % for 8 seconds ? (like vampire kiss set)

Thanks

There is a passive that does relatively what you ask, in the assassin tree. Executioner: Killing an enemy with an assassination ability restores x-amount magicka over 6 seconds. Works well with impale/killers blade.

poupouilleb16_ESO · August 2014

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

There is a passive that does relatively what you ask, in the assassin tree. Executioner: Killing an enemy with an assassination ability restores x-amount magicka over 6 seconds. Works well with impale/killers blade.

I know but it's too low. Restore 168 pts of mana over 6 seconds (lvl50 in assa). I have 1900 mp it restore less than 10% of my mana in 6 seconds.

=> 28 pts per seconds. My default regen is 83.

I think with a restore of 50 % it will let NB "chain" enemies more quickly. And it's aligned on Vampire kiss skill set.

Then it's my opinion

Code2501 · August 2014

poupouilleb16_ESO wrote: »

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

There is a passive that does relatively what you ask, in the assassin tree. Executioner: Killing an enemy with an assassination ability restores x-amount magicka over 6 seconds. Works well with impale/killers blade.

I know but it's too low. Restore 168 pts of mana over 6 seconds (lvl50 in assa). I have 1900 mp it restore less than 10% of my mana in 6 seconds.

=> 28 pts per seconds. My default regen is 83.

I think with a restore of 50 % it will let NB "chain" enemies more quickly. And it's aligned on Vampire kiss skill set.

Then it's my opinion

It seems to work well enough for me to clear a group of 3-4 simply via rotating Shadowy Disguise, Concealed Weapon, Killers Blade, with the odd Ambush opener for those groups that cover each others backs.
Don't forget 2.9 seconds of invis is free ticks of mana regen while your out of combat.

You could use siphoning attacks if your happy will slower TTK, or supplement it with magicka draining weapon enchants, but both will require you to use more regular attacks to draw a good amount of mana. Works well with Sap essence/Steel Tornado spam against groups, but you might want to use blur/refreshing paths to mitigate damage that way or you will be torn apart in large groups. Leeching strikes rater than siphoning strikes can help with that, but you loose mana triggers on abilities that way and will need to use more light/heavy attacks woven in between.

Jacques Berge · August 2014

Here you go, v12 NB vs v12 DK.... Enjoy hahaha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EvnAalMFDU&feature=youtube_gdata

Jacques Berge · August 2014

For those who are interested. My daggers are crushing night mother daggers. Reduce armor by 20% on crit, reduce armor by 600 on wep proc, coupled with piercing mark which reduces armor by 75%. So, even if the guy had 3k armor at the start, I would have reduced him to a giant golden goose egg after 1 white hit... You guys saw the results. Also, if you value your stamina... Don't block when you have shades on you hahahahaha.

Selodaoc · August 2014

To bad noone is running around completly alone and without beeing stealthed. Everyone sticks with gank groups nowadays.

Jacques Berge · August 2014

So, you want me to post a video of me fighting 5 DKs, who get the jump on me? LMAO. We're not currently discussing NBs in group dynamics. The video is that, in a 1 vs 1 scenario, a NB can kill a DK, even if the DK knows he's there, and is ready for a fight.

lathbury · August 2014

Didn't look like the DK had a clue.

Jacques Berge · August 2014

It was a duel... He knew I was there lol

lathbury · August 2014

No I mean no cc or dragon blood.

Sharee · August 2014

lathbury wrote: »

No I mean no cc or dragon blood.

He also didn't use a detection potion, and does not wear impenetrable armor.

Nonetheless, it was a nice kill, and shows how nightblades should work

Jacques Berge · August 2014

He couldnt break cc cause he was out of stam from blocking the shades. That's why you should just let them hit you and take the extra damage from the sneak attack.

Code2501 · August 2014

Yeah, the DK was a mess of confusion, had no idea how to respond to the shades and ran around in a panic.
Least you could have done is toyed with him a little longer, poor sod.

Jaxom · August 2014

Jacques Berge wrote: »

For those who are interested. My daggers are crushing night mother daggers. Reduce armor by 20% on crit, reduce armor by 600 on wep proc, coupled with piercing mark which reduces armor by 75%. So, even if the guy had 3k armor at the start, I would have reduced him to a giant golden goose egg after 1 white hit... You guys saw the results. Also, if you value your stamina... Don't block when you have shades on you hahahahaha.

Well done. After this discussion, I was toying around with it, and was pretty funny. 1H/Shield. Shades, Mass Hysteria, Shielded Charge, Impale, Absorb Magic. I call it, "Screwing with You".

Kiljaz · August 2014

Ok I can kill DKs on my NB too, I think the game is pretty balanced actually, but LoL, that had to be one of the worst DKs I've ever seen.

Selodaoc · August 2014

Jacques Berge wrote: »

So, you want me to post a video of me fighting 5 DKs, who get the jump on me? LMAO. We're not currently discussing NBs in group dynamics. The video is that, in a 1 vs 1 scenario, a NB can kill a DK, even if the DK knows he's there, and is ready for a fight.

No, just that you will hardly ever meet a player who you can fight 1v1 like that in Cyrodiil anymore.
Was a nice fight though, but one that took very long time.

Jacques Berge · August 2014

These are my thoughts... The NB requires more skill than other classes to be effective, there are still certain skills (i.e. magelight) that need to be rebalanced, and that those of us with more experience as NBs need to help those who are unsure of what build/play-style they should go for. The last part is the only thing we, as a NB community can do to make our class a force to reckon with, make those other classes with there OP skills rethink their "Oh, it's just a NB, I got this" mentality... I've killed my fair share of those pricks and I'm sure there are others out there who have done the same... What I'm saying is we need to start posting builds on this thing... Let those who are unsure see new, fresh ways to fight like a completely underhanded jerk!!!

Selodaoc · August 2014

You also have to make sure they are out of stamina so they cant block or break cc before you attack it seems.
I could kill alot of players when i played melee NB with the usual suprise attack>somthing in between>impale combo.

Problem was, that if you didnt kill them in that time they were stunned/broke out of stunn, they could easily heal themselves up to max and retaliate hard.

Melee NBs have a very time to "sustain" a fight becouse the limited dmg mitigation (very few skills to stop enemy dmg) and very few ways to stop enemy CC.
Actually any NB have huge problems with that, melee or ranged.
Its like "kill before they can fight back or notice you, or get killed"
Most other classes have shields, reflects, heals etc but Nightblades dont.
We only have measly heal dots based on our own attacks that hardly makes any differance in a fight.

I would like to see more "utility" for both melee and ranged nightblades.

Melee needs more ways to avoid dmg, and disabling enemies, maybe a silence for spells.

The typical ranged caster nightblade with grasping and swallow/funnel spam is extremly boring, it would be nice to have some utility that benefits the group built into it (swallow/funnel heals a little bit thats not huge)
Would be nice if it lowered something on the enemy, or increased your magica regen or whatever.
Staff Nightblades have HUGE problems with magicka.
I chugg potions and use spell symetry like a maniac.

ALL nightblade skills should be lowered about 30% in resource cost.
400+ magicka for cloak, and 300-400 for each spell is to much.

Jacques Berge · August 2014

... I'm just going to post a bunch of videos... A nice mixture between being underhanded and being in open combat with multiple opponents... It just takes the right build and strategic mind. I'm a Breton vamp with 5/2 med/light. The video will be up in 6 hrs. After I post, anyone interested in more specific build info can send me mail in game... Jacques Berge is my main char.

Code2501 · August 2014

Selodaoc wrote: »

*snip*

Just going to put this out there re: damage mitigation

In short, NB has skills for this already, some of these suffer from bugs which need to be squashed, and some could be tweaked for better synergy/strength, but you can't reasonably argue that NB does not have survivability, and your chances of getting small tweaks and bug fixes are far greater than of complete skill re-writes. If you want new skills, use spell-crafting or join the fighters guild.

NB is one of the best tanking classes if played with a modest level of skill.
NB has a wicked combination of mitigation/avoidance, utility and damage woven together across many skills, some are very powerful, some are lesser. They do exist and taken together they are effective if survive ability is what your concerned with.

Killers Blade - Heal on kill
Blur - Enemy has chance to miss altogether
Mark target - Heal on kill
Master Assassin - longer stun from stealth (CC is a form of damage avoidance)
Shadow Cloak - Invisibility is a powerful form of damage avoidance, especially as it acts as a ranged interrupt, not affected by CC immunity.
Veiled Strike - Stun from stealth (see above re CC)
Refreshing Path - movement speed helps you dodge attacks+heals
Aspect of terror - More CC.
Summon Shade - Enemy damage debuff.
Consuming Darkness Ultimate- 60% damage mitigation for ~16 seconds PLUS snare.
Shadow Barrier - Garunteed to overcharge your Armour and Spell Resist for 4 seconds after stealth/invis
Strife - Self Heal ticks on a DD skill
Agony - yet more CC.
Cripple - even more cc, on a hefty dot.
Leeching Strikes - self heal, albeit with hefty dps self-debuff.
Sap essence - weak AOE DD+ group heal which scales off # of enemies hit.

Invisibility alone is a massive tool, they really just need to make it work reliably!
You can use it to interrupt spells and heavy attacks, trigger "from stealth or invis" bonuses and either dot stripping or 100% crit hit.
Also, 3-400 magicka for cloak is not really that much, if you wait the duration of the cloak you get 1.5 in-combat magicka regen ticks, and with the recent change to magicka regen overcharge numbers you can regen about half the magicka back in 2.9 seconds. Timing is important.

dafraorb16_ESO · August 2014

Jacques Berge wrote: »

Here you go, v12 NB vs v12 DK.... Enjoy hahaha. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EvnAalMFDU&feature=youtube_gdata

wtf what a *** video, DK aren't *** like this one on the video

Jacques Berge · August 2014

I've got plenty of other videos... I just like this one cause it's funny... I'm holding my breath for your backlog of constructive insight to show up. If all you have is F@$king excuses as to why this worked or that worked in this super specific situation, if you're just gonna get on here and complain and nitpick and not help, well, you can STFU and GTFO

Erlindur · August 2014

Code2501 wrote: »

Selodaoc wrote: »

*snip*

Just going to put this out there re: damage mitigation

In short, NB has skills for this already, some of these suffer from bugs which need to be squashed, and some could be tweaked for better synergy/strength, but you can't reasonably argue that NB does not have survivability, and your chances of getting small tweaks and bug fixes are far greater than of complete skill re-writes. If you want new skills, use spell-crafting or join the fighters guild.

NB is one of the best tanking classes if played with a modest level of skill.
NB has a wicked combination of mitigation/avoidance, utility and damage woven together across many skills, some are very powerful, some are lesser. They do exist and taken together they are effective if survive ability is what your concerned with.

Killers Blade - Heal on kill
Blur - Enemy has chance to miss altogether
Mark target - Heal on kill
Master Assassin - longer stun from stealth (CC is a form of damage avoidance)
Shadow Cloak - Invisibility is a powerful form of damage avoidance, especially as it acts as a ranged interrupt, not affected by CC immunity.
Veiled Strike - Stun from stealth (see above re CC)
Refreshing Path - movement speed helps you dodge attacks+heals
Aspect of terror - More CC.
Summon Shade - Enemy damage debuff.
Consuming Darkness Ultimate- 60% damage mitigation for ~16 seconds PLUS snare.
Shadow Barrier - Garunteed to overcharge your Armour and Spell Resist for 4 seconds after stealth/invis
Strife - Self Heal ticks on a DD skill
Agony - yet more CC.
Cripple - even more cc, on a hefty dot.
Leeching Strikes - self heal, albeit with hefty dps self-debuff.
Sap essence - weak AOE DD+ group heal which scales off # of enemies hit.

Invisibility alone is a massive tool, they really just need to make it work reliably!
You can use it to interrupt spells and heavy attacks, trigger "from stealth or invis" bonuses and either dot stripping or 100% crit hit.
Also, 3-400 magicka for cloak is not really that much, if you wait the duration of the cloak you get 1.5 in-combat magicka regen ticks, and with the recent change to magicka regen overcharge numbers you can regen about half the magicka back in 2.9 seconds. Timing is important.

All of the above sounds nice, but they are about some other game. You know, a game that has 12 slots in a bar, coupled with more skill choices on shift, control and alt. Now talk about survivability with 5 slots and an ultimate.

It feels like that the guy designing the class, forgot about that little fact. Yes, on paper, NBs have everything they need to address every obstacle. The problem is that usually, those obstacles come in a rapid succession while you are in combat. No wonder everyone ends up playing with his stick in an up and down palindromic motion. At least that seems to work. most of the time.

Selodaoc · August 2014

Exactly that, and some skills are spell dmg and weapon crit, while some are spell dmg and spell crit, so you need different setups to utilize them.

Most of the skills, jsut like i said, requires a kill, or opening from stealth, the fight between that, theres not much.
Fear is quite useless, its also breaks as soon as hit.
Consuming darkness, enemies move out of.
Cloak breaks on everything, and doesnt work if enemy uses magelight once your in combat.
Blur is just a slotwaster.
Every time you cast cloak, it drains your magicka pool of 400+ magicka.

Theres also such a thing as cc immunity.

I didnt say we dont have skills to open fights with, or close a fight with.
The problem is what you do after your opener, and until you can use impale.

During that time, Nightblades dont have much to stop an enemy from making a comeback, much better heals that dont requires attacks, more lock CC (Knockdown is better then stunn) and better shields to absorb damage.

Bow NBs are a bit easier, if your lucky, you can snipe an enemy down before they know where the arrows are comming from. However, your even more dead if enemy engages first.

Ive been quite succesful in PvP on my NB in melee, but often i found myself thinking "phew i was lucky i killed him before he got out of my cc and healed himself up to max again"

Stunlocking someone from 100%-0% isnt really a fun playstyle, but its pretty much the only thing there is.

Grim13 · August 2014

Selodaoc wrote: »

Exactly that, and some skills are spell dmg and weapon crit, while some are spell dmg and spell crit, so you need different setups to utilize them.

Most of the skills, jsut like i said, requires a kill, or opening from stealth, the fight between that, theres not much.
Fear is quite useless, its also breaks as soon as hit.
Consuming darkness, enemies move out of.
Cloak breaks on everything, and doesnt work if enemy uses magelight once your in combat.
Blur is just a slotwaster.
Every time you cast cloak, it drains your magicka pool of 400+ magicka.

Theres also such a thing as cc immunity.

I didnt say we dont have skills to open fights with, or close a fight with.
The problem is what you do after your opener, and until you can use impale.

During that time, Nightblades dont have much to stop an enemy from making a comeback, much better heals that dont requires attacks, more lock CC (Knockdown is better then stunn) and better shields to absorb damage.

Bow NBs are a bit easier, if your lucky, you can snipe an enemy down before they know where the arrows are comming from. However, your even more dead if enemy engages first.

Ive been quite succesful in PvP on my NB in melee, but often i found myself thinking "phew i was lucky i killed him before he got out of my cc and healed himself up to max again"

Stunlocking someone from 100%-0% isnt really a fun playstyle, but its pretty much the only thing there is.

This is exactly how I feel! Well said.

Jacques Berge · August 2014

Selodaoc wrote: »

Ive been quite succesful in PvP on my NB in melee, but often i found myself thinking "phew i was lucky i killed him before he got out of my cc and healed himself up to max again"

Stunlocking someone from 100%-0% isnt really a fun playstyle, but its pretty much the only thing there is.

That's the name of the game in pvp though. Every class relies on CC effects to win in fights. Sorcs have streak and shards, most DKs use some sort of shield charge-talons-whip combo, Templars rely on the spear class for dps and NBs have cloak+CW/SA. Preventing attacks is it's own sort of damage mitigation.

Jaxom · August 2014

Selodaoc wrote: »

Exactly that, and some skills are spell dmg and weapon crit, while some are spell dmg and spell crit, so you need different setups to utilize them.

Most of the skills, jsut like i said, requires a kill, or opening from stealth, the fight between that, theres not much.
Fear is quite useless, its also breaks as soon as hit.
Consuming darkness, enemies move out of.
Cloak breaks on everything, and doesnt work if enemy uses magelight once your in combat.
Blur is just a slotwaster.
Every time you cast cloak, it drains your magicka pool of 400+ magicka.

Theres also such a thing as cc immunity.

I didnt say we dont have skills to open fights with, or close a fight with.
The problem is what you do after your opener, and until you can use impale.

During that time, Nightblades dont have much to stop an enemy from making a comeback, much better heals that dont requires attacks, more lock CC (Knockdown is better then stunn) and better shields to absorb damage.

Bow NBs are a bit easier, if your lucky, you can snipe an enemy down before they know where the arrows are comming from. However, your even more dead if enemy engages first.

Ive been quite succesful in PvP on my NB in melee, but often i found myself thinking "phew i was lucky i killed him before he got out of my cc and healed himself up to max again"

Stunlocking someone from 100%-0% isnt really a fun playstyle, but its pretty much the only thing there is.

I agree with everything you said except for one thing. Fear (Aspect of Terror and it's morphs) do not break on damage. It's actually a very useful skill when applied and wouldn't have it off my bar. It's one of the few ways I'm able to kill DKs as you cannot block it.

I like to Ambush, Soul Harvest, Flying Blade, Fear (Mass Hysteria), Flying Blade, Impale. Most times they are dead. If they happen to survive it, I can fear them again and finish them off. 1v1 that fear is king. It's just very underutilized (4s of cc + weapon power reduction + snare). If they break out of it, they take a large chunk of stamina away and it's done it's job.

Jacques Berge · August 2014

For those who are interested, the night silence 5 piece set bonus (movement speed increased by 60% while sneaking) stacks with both vampire's dark stalker passive (increased movement speed when crouched) and the concealed weapons passive (movement speed increased by 25% while hidden). This will make you faster than all but the fastest horses.