Nightblade Update

Kypho · August 2014

OK another pair things what i didnt wanted to list, but after Vamp comment on WW update, i will do.
Lets speak about classes then.
Sorcerer vs NB.
1. Sorcerer has great shield like Templars, PLUS surge what gives selfbuff to boost weapon power, critical surge buff even healing self (critical charge and morphs always crits, so always heal, and heals BIG amount)
*** NB? umm no shield... no selfbuff what heals.... only killers blade and/or marktarget if you are lucky to kill the enemy.... still not so good as Sorc.

2. Templar Puncturing gives CC and selfheal, HAS BLAZING SHIELD, and a huuuuuge selfheal etc....(too many to list all)
*** NB? what twin slash for the small amount heal? Blinding furry for the small chance? Class skills? WHAT????

3. DK molten weapons gives buff to weapon dmg. NB again .... really only the powerdrain? its not a selfbuff because you need to do it on enemy so lost your ambush. ohh and AMBUSH... gerat one to start, but only the next dmg doing 30%.
DK has so many tanking abilities+reflect, i dont even want to write em, all know them.

DK has nice selfheal.... NB... Strife and morphs+refreshing path+sap essence what are all small amount HoT and you just cant heal up fast enough, and its not normal that you need to use multiple,where Sorc surge and dark exchange, Temp rushed ceremony etc... , DK dragon blood.
*** NB tanking? BLUR!!! AWESOME one.......worthless crap.... Cloak? lol broken crap.

So... Overall...
NB has no shield, too bad tanking abilities, we can say NO HEAL, no escaping ability since cloak is CRAP. CC is the worst exept fear, but enemy can maintain block while feared (LOL) and affecting 2 enemy, or you drop a stupid trap what will everyone avoid.
As for damage. yes. you are one shot class. That doesnt mean you kill with one shot, it means if you dont kill afker, or not battleready enemy, you better go away asap.

Kypho · August 2014

And ppl want NB to trials is because ultimate. thats all the NB awesomeness...

TheBull · August 2014

Code2501 wrote: »

So @ZOS_JessicaFolsom in the event the Dev team is still interested in feedback on the "nightblade update" here is some specific, clear and actionable data for you.
Heck knows its been /bugged many times, but its still not been resolved several months after the team put us on notice that they were aware of it.

As of tonight,
The DOT portion of these NB accessible skills consistently breaks invisibility when used on enemies:
Crippling grasp IV
Refreshing Path IV (just the DOT, the HOT works fine and does not break invis)

The DOT on Entropy IV is inconsistent when used on enemies. Sometimes it breaks invis, sometimes it will stay up through a tick.

And the below consistently do not break invisibility when used on enemies.
Soultrap IV
Veil of blades IV
Prolonged suffering IV

Other nighblades, please chime in on other morphs you have recently tested.

Devs, please let us know the status of this issue which was noted 2 months ago.

edited for clarity

Breaks-
Caltrops
Arrow Barrage
Casting Shades

edit- oh wtf, not like ZOS doesn't know this!

Darkonflare15 · August 2014

Kypho wrote: »

OK another pair things what i didnt wanted to list, but after Vamp comment on WW update, i will do.
Lets speak about classes then.
Sorcerer vs NB.
1. Sorcerer has great shield like Templars, PLUS surge what gives selfbuff to boost weapon power, critical surge buff even healing self (critical charge and morphs always crits, so always heal, and heals BIG amount)
*** NB? umm no shield... no selfbuff what heals.... only killers blade and/or marktarget if you are lucky to kill the enemy.... still not so good as Sorc.

2. Templar Puncturing gives CC and selfheal, HAS BLAZING SHIELD, and a huuuuuge selfheal etc....(too many to list all)
*** NB? what twin slash for the small amount heal? Blinding furry for the small chance? Class skills? WHAT????

3. DK molten weapons gives buff to weapon dmg. NB again .... really only the powerdrain? its not a selfbuff because you need to do it on enemy so lost your ambush. ohh and AMBUSH... gerat one to start, but only the next dmg doing 30%.
DK has so many tanking abilities+reflect, i dont even want to write em, all know them.

DK has nice selfheal.... NB... Strife and morphs+refreshing path+sap essence what are all small amount HoT and you just cant heal up fast enough, and its not normal that you need to use multiple,where Sorc surge and dark exchange, Temp rushed ceremony etc... , DK dragon blood.
*** NB tanking? BLUR!!! AWESOME one.......worthless crap.... Cloak? lol broken crap.

So... Overall...
NB has no shield, too bad tanking abilities, we can say NO HEAL, no escaping ability since cloak is CRAP. CC is the worst exept fear, but enemy can maintain block while feared (LOL) and affecting 2 enemy, or you drop a stupid trap what will everyone avoid.
As for damage. yes. you are one shot class. That doesnt mean you kill with one shot, it means if you dont kill afker, or not battleready enemy, you better go away asap.

Yes I agreed that we do not have a self heal or away to increase protection out right but we do have some skills.

We have four abilities that raises weapon damage. We Power Drain that boost our attack by 11% per enemy up to nine enemies that is not bad. We have ambush that boost our next attack damage. Also we have Reaper's Mark when we kill an opponent we get a boost of spell power and weapon damage for 16 and we get a bonus 60% of max health when we kill an opponent. The problem with the skill is the enemy has 70% resistance against our armor at the same time we get 70% resistance against there armor but that is not bad because I kill the opponent fast before they can take advantage of the debuff. We also have incapacitating morph of haste that allows us to do 12% more damage with heavy attacks.

We also have a lot debuffing skills for tanking. We have shades which debuffs the enemy for 15% less damage to us. You have mass hysteria which fears and debuffs the enemy attacks with 30% for 3 sec. We also have a passive which increases our armor and spell resistance when we are coming out of hidden or invisbilty. Which will work with our shadow cloak then we have an awesome ultimate which gives everybody in the team that is in range 30% while you get 100% plus this value. While as you said we can use blur to help evade enemies attacks. Now you add those skills with the weapon skills and passives from sword and sheild and heavy armor or medium armor if you prefer. Also with certain types set armor items pieces that raises armor or protects from damage. You can make pretty viable tanking nightblade.

So do not sell night blades too short. We have great skills.

Luvsfuzzybunnies · August 2014

@Darkonflare15‌ lets talk about what your ult can do cause mine only mitigates 60% of damage. "We have an awesome ultimate which gives a 100% less damage. While as you said we can use blur to help evade enemies attacks."

Darkonflare15 · August 2014

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

@Darkonflare15‌ lets talk about what your ult can do cause mine only mitigates 60% of damage. "We have an awesome ultimate which gives a 100% less damage. While as you said we can use blur to help evade enemies attacks."

Geez you think people cannot make mistakes. What i meant to say is it 30% less damage with an additional 100% more of this value. Which is 60%. Which is how it is explain in game.

Attorneyatlawl · September 2014

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

@Darkonflare15‌ lets talk about what your ult can do cause mine only mitigates 60% of damage. "We have an awesome ultimate which gives a 100% less damage. While as you said we can use blur to help evade enemies attacks."

Geez you think people cannot make mistakes. What i meant to say is it 30% less damage with an additional 100% more of this value. Which is 60%. Which is how it is explain in game.

EXCUSE ME! Perfection is required around here, no one can ever be wrong on the internet!

I thought it was a good pun.

Kypho · September 2014

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

@Darkonflare15‌ lets talk about what your ult can do cause mine only mitigates 60% of damage. "We have an awesome ultimate which gives a 100% less damage. While as you said we can use blur to help evade enemies attacks."

Blur 15% misschance.... other classes have 50% etc... Blur my a$$

Kypho · September 2014

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Kypho wrote: »

OK another pair things what i didnt wanted to list, but after Vamp comment on WW update, i will do.
Lets speak about classes then.
Sorcerer vs NB.
1. Sorcerer has great shield like Templars, PLUS surge what gives selfbuff to boost weapon power, critical surge buff even healing self (critical charge and morphs always crits, so always heal, and heals BIG amount)
*** NB? umm no shield... no selfbuff what heals.... only killers blade and/or marktarget if you are lucky to kill the enemy.... still not so good as Sorc.

2. Templar Puncturing gives CC and selfheal, HAS BLAZING SHIELD, and a huuuuuge selfheal etc....(too many to list all)
*** NB? what twin slash for the small amount heal? Blinding furry for the small chance? Class skills? WHAT????

3. DK molten weapons gives buff to weapon dmg. NB again .... really only the powerdrain? its not a selfbuff because you need to do it on enemy so lost your ambush. ohh and AMBUSH... gerat one to start, but only the next dmg doing 30%.
DK has so many tanking abilities+reflect, i dont even want to write em, all know them.

DK has nice selfheal.... NB... Strife and morphs+refreshing path+sap essence what are all small amount HoT and you just cant heal up fast enough, and its not normal that you need to use multiple,where Sorc surge and dark exchange, Temp rushed ceremony etc... , DK dragon blood.
*** NB tanking? BLUR!!! AWESOME one.......worthless crap.... Cloak? lol broken crap.

So... Overall...
NB has no shield, too bad tanking abilities, we can say NO HEAL, no escaping ability since cloak is CRAP. CC is the worst exept fear, but enemy can maintain block while feared (LOL) and affecting 2 enemy, or you drop a stupid trap what will everyone avoid.
As for damage. yes. you are one shot class. That doesnt mean you kill with one shot, it means if you dont kill afker, or not battleready enemy, you better go away asap.

Yes I agreed that we do not have a self heal or away to increase protection out right but we do have some skills.

We have four abilities that raises weapon damage. We Power Drain that boost our attack by 11% per enemy up to nine enemies that is not bad. We have ambush that boost our next attack damage. Also we have Reaper's Mark when we kill an opponent we get a boost of spell power and weapon damage for 16 and we get a bonus 60% of max health when we kill an opponent. The problem with the skill is the enemy has 70% resistance against our armor at the same time we get 70% resistance against there armor but that is not bad because I kill the opponent fast before they can take advantage of the debuff. We also have incapacitating morph of haste that allows us to do 12% more damage with heavy attacks.

We also have a lot debuffing skills for tanking. We have shades which debuffs the enemy for 15% less damage to us. You have mass hysteria which fears and debuffs the enemy attacks with 30% for 3 sec. We also have a passive which increases our armor and spell resistance when we are coming out of hidden or invisbilty. Which will work with our shadow cloak then we have an awesome ultimate which gives everybody in the team that is in range 30% while you get 100% plus this value. While as you said we can use blur to help evade enemies attacks. Now you add those skills with the weapon skills and passives from sword and sheild and heavy armor or medium armor if you prefer. Also with certain types set armor items pieces that raises armor or protects from damage. You can make pretty viable tanking nightblade.

So do not sell night blades too short. We have great skills.

As i said. Power drain is effective at 3+ enemies, (and if you are in light armor its better still 3+) and you lose surprise. All can hit same hard as NB from stealth, what is other stupid crap from ZoS. So Power drain, 3+ enemy, its not as good as it sounds. Other classes have selfbuff, what can use in stealth so they can ambush opponent... Drain is crap.

Yes mark target and morphs are great, exept it heals you when opponent dies, WHEN IT DIES. You have 3 times less survivability than Templar, DK, or even Sorcerer. all can heal themself better, all have shield, you got Blur what is a big piece of [snip] with its small percentage.

Haste is a waste since you need to do normal attacks, and you probably get stunned because all class can stun you exept you, you need to be in cloak.... or fear em, but as i said, its crap. enemy keep blocking.... really.... why not even heal in fear ZOS?

Ultimate? Really. They are good, but Swarm etc.., all class ulti can be even good or better....

Blur even if you have 30% its for 3 sec and eating magicka, while templars can spam blazing shield what does decent damage. And after 3 sec its 15% what is a huge joke for a class what has almost zero selfheal, NO shield, NOTHING to survive, exept bugged, short, crapcloak.

OFC in pve its cool... in pve even a headless chicken can do anything with any class. In PvP its a big piece of [snip] compared to other classes. Yes you can do lightarmor restrostaff crap and kill NBs who doesnt using that, or a someone who doesnt using the class good, or most pve-ers, but as most NB who have other classes to play, will know what i am taling about. Most even stop playing NB because its such a weak [snip]. They play DK and they are awesome, others playing Templar and killing any type of NB, and they just gave up on NB because its weak, and much much harder to play than any other class. Its not normal...

FIX YOUR GAME ZOS...

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Darkonflare15 · September 2014

@kypho So what other classes have better heals. Other classes have better survivability. With your mentality Nightblades are just useless compare to other classes that is your problem. Night blades will never and I mean never be good for you. You might as well just not play night blades. Go play other classes and forget night blades because all you doing is producing negative things. When someone try to think of the positives of the class. You straight trash the good qualities. Newsflash there is people complaining about the other classes. They are not perfect. You are telling ZOS to fix their game. How about fix your perspective? You never have fun if you keep downing stuff all the time. You should probally quit or just get rid of your night blade.

Kypho · September 2014

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

@kypho So what other classes have better heals. Other classes have better survivability. With your mentality Nightblades are just useless compare to other classes that is your problem. Night blades will never and I mean never be good for you. You might as well just not play night blades. Go play other classes and forget night blades because all you doing is producing negative things. When someone try to think of the positives of the class. You straight trash the good qualities. Newsflash there is people complaining about the other classes. They are not perfect. You are telling ZOS to fix their game. How about fix your perspective? You never have fun if you keep downing stuff all the time. You should probally quit or just get rid of your night blade.

I have a templar and know what NB is compared to that. Templars are op like hell and they still want stuff. NB is bugged and dont get a fix, and you talk BS now to me, seems you dont have NB, and you just give a *** about this class. OFC it has positives, but ZoS failed to fix this class since start. So i should just give a *** and play it or not? that is what you say?

Its same as you would say to a werewolf as a vampire, that WW is fine its decent in pve and in pvp... thats just a lie... and ww should see the bright side... what????
BS going on for too long and ZoS doesnt do anything about it. Cloak is bugged very long time ago, still zero fix. swallow soul bugged etc... what is good? i can solo clagroln dungeons? WOW AWESOME.

Kypho · September 2014

You know, you have right. i give a ***. ZoS can give me a favor...if you think NB is soo good as the other classes, you are a joke, but fine for me.

Kypho · September 2014

You know, you have right. i give a ***. ZoS can give me a favor...if you think NB is soo good as the other classes, you are a joke, but fine for me.

Darkonflare15 · September 2014

@kypho I did not say it was as good as other classes. I said there is no point in belittling something even further then it already is. Its like stating information that is obvious already to make a point but since it is already been known its redundant and not helping the situation. You should at least come up with some positive information that a person would want to know but can't because of all the hate and negativity surrounding the subject. That is what I am trying to say.

Thejollygreenone · September 2014

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

@kypho I did not say it was as good as other classes. I said there is no point in belittling something even further then it already is. Its like stating information that is obvious already to make a point but since it is already been known its redundant and not helping the situation. You should at least come up with some positive information that a person would want to know but can't because of all the hate and negativity surrounding the subject. That is what I am trying to say.

I think the phrase 'beating a dead horse to death' would fit nicely here.

Grim13 · September 2014

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

@kypho I did not say it was as good as other classes. I said there is no point in belittling something even further then it already is. Its like stating information that is obvious already to make a point but since it is already been known its redundant and not helping the situation. You should at least come up with some positive information that a person would want to know but can't because of all the hate and negativity surrounding the subject. That is what I am trying to say.

I think the phrase 'beating a dead horse to death' would fit nicely here.

There wouldn't be a dead horse to beat if ZOS would just GET OFF THEIR BLOODY ARSES AND FIX NBs ALREADY!

Varicite · September 2014

Grim13 wrote: »

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

@kypho I did not say it was as good as other classes. I said there is no point in belittling something even further then it already is. Its like stating information that is obvious already to make a point but since it is already been known its redundant and not helping the situation. You should at least come up with some positive information that a person would want to know but can't because of all the hate and negativity surrounding the subject. That is what I am trying to say.

I think the phrase 'beating a dead horse to death' would fit nicely here.

There wouldn't be a dead horse to beat if ZOS would just GET OFF THEIR BLOODY ARSES AND FIX NBs ALREADY!

A large part of the problem is that everybody wants NBs "fixed", but even in this thread, there isn't really any sort of consensus on what is actually broken, aside from Shadow Cloak.

The rest of it is basically just a lot of misconceptions, outright falsehoods, and "Sorc has this, give me this, DK has this, give me this."

ZOS has been pushing fixes out to the class slowly over time, and NBs are in a pretty good place overall when comparing actual ability to play the game.

Cloth/staff NBs are doing excellently in both PvE and PvP, there are some pretty good stamina-based NB builds floating around now that are able to consistently break the 1k DPS wall in Trials, and of course the NB is still the best class in the game for stealth ganking.

Defensively, they are lacking compared to some other classes, as it was designed to be more elusive via use of Cloak, teleports, speed boosts, etc. If the major crux of NB defense (Shadow Cloak) was fixed, this would be a lot more viable, imo.

Offensively in PvP, NBs have access to a few choice actions that other classes don't, like a CC that works even while your opponent is blocking, shades (teleport or stamina drain morphs), etc.

I think that as long as they continue to move in the right direction, things are fine. There are some really great NB builds out there, and some awesome NB players.

Of course, as w/ any class, your mileage may vary. I honestly believe that NBs were seen as the underdog for so long, that even now when they are MUCH, MUCH better than at launch, some players fail to grasp some of the potential of the class' strengths and then simply blame the tools instead of their own skill.

I'm not the best NB out there, but most often when things go wrong, I try to see what I have at my disposal and what I did wrong in the situation, and usually there are things that I could have done better.

eventide03b14a_ESO · September 2014

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Ilterendi wrote: »

Kypho wrote: »

Ilterendi wrote: »

Blinding Flurry ( 7% chance to proc Off-ballance) which procs usually every 2:3 times. Followed with Incapacitate on your bar reducing charge time and increasing the damage for Heavy Attacks, makes this combo lethal in most situations. I've been using it throughout boss fights and public dungeons (3-6 mob packs) and have been taking down mobs faster than Cloak n Stab. I've also been decimating the DKs that rely more heavily on single target dps. In AoE situations I'll spam Sap Essence and Steel Tornado with liberal application of Veil of Blades.

The sky isn't falling on NBs. 1.3.3 made life much better in terms of Stamina builds. NB could still use a bit of work (I'm looking at you Blur), but overall Stamina based NB can wreck. I've been getting 800-950 with my stamina build, it isn't the best way to do good dps but it's still in the lower dps bracket that's good enough to take to AA or trials.

PvE is fine. I killed worldboss who hit me twice. wow. and? it wont work in pvp that much. Yes Blur. 15% miss ohh what a waste ZoS. Morph it, you get 30% for 2 sec and 15% after.... waste...
AoE situations, well. Sapp essence with siphoning strikes are nice... if you are in light armor, its is. in medium it works but mehh.
But umm we talk about NB or about DW, because all could use Blinding Flurry, its not specially NB. The problem starts when other class can use it while he has other, better abilities, like a blowing up shield, a huge mitigation ulti, a heal what gives you stamina too, etc... you have what? Siphoning with -22% dmg? lolzeni... Blur with 15% miss? more lol. Bugged cloak? lol again. You have a execution ability what if you push wrong time, it wont work, while someone has one, what just autoexecute when enemy health drops low, so ehhm...
maybe you are awesome, better than all ppl in game as NB, you have to work still much more than other classes, and its not fair IMO. Its not a big problem, but powercreep will be higher with every patch where NB get nothing. Seems soon Sorcs will feel the same.
Dont need much, but make cloak better, i mean dark cloak is a bugged mess. Blur, its a big joke as it is etc.

Yes, DKs Fragmented Shield is dandy. Good mitigation, decent aoe. Yes, they also have a heal that grants a TEMPORARY stamina regen boost. NBs have a permanent stamina regen boost, that's better, not to mention Funnel Health that does damage of an adequate amount and has exceptional ability to generate Ultimate. DKs do not have an execute (to my knowledge) and Templars have Biting Jabs, Killer's Blade is easily preferred over this. Sorcs have Mages Wrath, which despite what you claim is not an auto - execute, they push a button and health goes down just like Impale/Killer's Blade, again NBs execute is still preferred.

It sounds to me that you are overly unhappy with this game, maybe a break for you is in order?

I agree, NBs still need bug fixes. Why the devs can't get this right, along with better communication, I don't know. NBs are not a dead class, despite your feelings.

Yeah NB needs bug fixes and some changes to skills but what bothers me is that for a mage you can have a magic barrier that works, for a warrior you can have armor increases or buffs but for sneak characters you are suppose to have a way to dodge attacks since we do not have agility in this game. We need to a have a affective dodge skill. Night blades have blur which only raise our dodge rating for 15% not bad for the first skill but the morphs should be better instead we get one morph, Mirage, that stays the same but gives opponents a chance to be set off balance. A chance dodge with a chance to set off balance is stupid. In a battle I dodge maybe one or two attacks but I never get a chance to set off balance. Then you have the other morph, Double take, which gives 15% extra for 3.5 seconds. This would be better if it last longer like maybe 14 secs or something because the skill itself last 26 secs. Its just ridiculous how unuseful this skill is.

Why is this not a toggle anyway? It's no different in concept to bound armor and 15% isn't so fantastic as to not have it all the time.

Darkonflare15 · September 2014

Varicite wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

@kypho I did not say it was as good as other classes. I said there is no point in belittling something even further then it already is. Its like stating information that is obvious already to make a point but since it is already been known its redundant and not helping the situation. You should at least come up with some positive information that a person would want to know but can't because of all the hate and negativity surrounding the subject. That is what I am trying to say.

I think the phrase 'beating a dead horse to death' would fit nicely here.

There wouldn't be a dead horse to beat if ZOS would just GET OFF THEIR BLOODY ARSES AND FIX NBs ALREADY!

A large part of the problem is that everybody wants NBs "fixed", but even in this thread, there isn't really any sort of consensus on what is actually broken, aside from Shadow Cloak.

The rest of it is basically just a lot of misconceptions, outright falsehoods, and "Sorc has this, give me this, DK has this, give me this."

ZOS has been pushing fixes out to the class slowly over time, and NBs are in a pretty good place overall when comparing actual ability to play the game.

Cloth/staff NBs are doing excellently in both PvE and PvP, there are some pretty good stamina-based NB builds floating around now that are able to consistently break the 1k DPS wall in Trials, and of course the NB is still the best class in the game for stealth ganking.

Defensively, they are lacking compared to some other classes, as it was designed to be more elusive via use of Cloak, teleports, speed boosts, etc. If the major crux of NB defense (Shadow Cloak) was fixed, this would be a lot more viable, imo.

Offensively in PvP, NBs have access to a few choice actions that other classes don't, like a CC that works even while your opponent is blocking, shades (teleport or stamina drain morphs), etc.

I think that as long as they continue to move in the right direction, things are fine. There are some really great NB builds out there, and some awesome NB players.

Of course, as w/ any class, your mileage may vary. I honestly believe that NBs were seen as the underdog for so long, that even now when they are MUCH, MUCH better than at launch, some players fail to grasp some of the potential of the class' strengths and then simply blame the tools instead of their own skill.

I'm not the best NB out there, but most often when things go wrong, I try to see what I have at my disposal and what I did wrong in the situation, and usually there are things that I could have done better.

This ^

Jaxom · September 2014

Varicite wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

@kypho I did not say it was as good as other classes. I said there is no point in belittling something even further then it already is. Its like stating information that is obvious already to make a point but since it is already been known its redundant and not helping the situation. You should at least come up with some positive information that a person would want to know but can't because of all the hate and negativity surrounding the subject. That is what I am trying to say.

I think the phrase 'beating a dead horse to death' would fit nicely here.

There wouldn't be a dead horse to beat if ZOS would just GET OFF THEIR BLOODY ARSES AND FIX NBs ALREADY!

A large part of the problem is that everybody wants NBs "fixed", but even in this thread, there isn't really any sort of consensus on what is actually broken, aside from Shadow Cloak.

The rest of it is basically just a lot of misconceptions, outright falsehoods, and "Sorc has this, give me this, DK has this, give me this."

ZOS has been pushing fixes out to the class slowly over time, and NBs are in a pretty good place overall when comparing actual ability to play the game.

Cloth/staff NBs are doing excellently in both PvE and PvP, there are some pretty good stamina-based NB builds floating around now that are able to consistently break the 1k DPS wall in Trials, and of course the NB is still the best class in the game for stealth ganking.

Defensively, they are lacking compared to some other classes, as it was designed to be more elusive via use of Cloak, teleports, speed boosts, etc. If the major crux of NB defense (Shadow Cloak) was fixed, this would be a lot more viable, imo.

Offensively in PvP, NBs have access to a few choice actions that other classes don't, like a CC that works even while your opponent is blocking, shades (teleport or stamina drain morphs), etc.

I think that as long as they continue to move in the right direction, things are fine. There are some really great NB builds out there, and some awesome NB players.

Of course, as w/ any class, your mileage may vary. I honestly believe that NBs were seen as the underdog for so long, that even now when they are MUCH, MUCH better than at launch, some players fail to grasp some of the potential of the class' strengths and then simply blame the tools instead of their own skill.

I'm not the best NB out there, but most often when things go wrong, I try to see what I have at my disposal and what I did wrong in the situation, and usually there are things that I could have done better.

Spot on. You fix cloak, and you will make a large portion of the NB player base very happy. There are 2 things NB's are very good at. In PvE, the traditional Light Armor/ Resto combo is pushing out very high dps numbers in trials. In PvP, NB's are second to none in stealth ganking with both Magicka and Stamina based skill sets. The problem with NB's is that we feel a decent number of our class abilities are just not worth putting on the bar.

If you are magicka based in PvP, you put on Ambush, Concealed/Surprise Attack, Impale/Killers Blade, Soul Harvest/Incapacitating Strike, Funnel Health. That's every PvP magicka based NB since those have the best synergy and damage potential. There really isn't much room for experimentation since the second you swap one of those skills out, you are now less effective.

We just want options. We are pigeonholed into 3 builds 1 for PvE and 2 for PvP if you want to be competitive. I know there are some specialized builds (I've played around with them) but in the end, they aren't are universally useful.

Rair.Kitani · September 2014

Varicite wrote: »

...
Cloth/staff NBs are doing excellently in both PvE and PvP, there are some pretty good stamina-based NB builds floating around now that are able to consistently break the 1k DPS wall in Trials, and of course the NB is still the best class in the game for stealth ganking.
...

Sry for being a bit OT and a noob, but what is meant by 1k dps wall?
Single Target DPS spike, overall after a boss fight, aoe DPS? I just dont get it

eventide03b14a_ESO · September 2014

Nonamesbutmineub17_ESO wrote: »

My guess is that the devs are waiting until the release of the Theives guild and Dark Brother hood skill lines until they make any major fixes to the Nightblade class as they will most likely have stealth and stamina based passives. Eventhough, we will have to wait at least 3 months I'm guessing. It seems they are pay more attention to other classes than than the Nightblade, that is my guess as to why they stalling the changes to Nightblades and stamina builds.

So should we continue to pay for it till they fix it? I'm not in the habit of paying for a product I am unsatisfied with. I'm not asking this to be snide I want to honestly know if I should be paying for something that seems to be still in beta.

eventide03b14a_ESO · September 2014

TheBull wrote: »

General: Currently, a Nightblade’s own residual outgoing damage-over-time ticks break his or her invisibility. This is not intended, and will be fixed in a future patch.

3 months later, NO fix...

And that's why it's so much more difficult for us to take on multiple enemies. We have the worst defensive buffs and we have to choose whether to use our best DoT's or stealth if faced with multiple enemies. I can't use cripple or path if I want to use stealth because the stupid dot will just break it. Why is it so difficult to just grant us the invis for the full duration and make it so that it's unbreakable. I'm sorry but that's not OP at all. It's not like Bolt Escape is breakable and to me it's really a very similar concept. Please ZOS can you give us one ability that we can reliably count on?

Matuzes · September 2014

Varicite wrote: »

A large part of the problem is that everybody wants NBs "fixed", but even in this thread, there isn't really any sort of consensus on what is actually broken, aside from Shadow Cloak.

Death Stroke(and morphs) - animation will happen but without any effect
Impale - animation sometimes stuck and prevents player to use skill for some time
Teleport Strike(and morphs) - teleporting to players through keep doors, animation happens but without any effect
Incapacitate - apart from doubful usefulness of that skill, there is snare instead of immobilize effect

Shadow Cloak(and morphs) - break if any enemy is hit by: Cripple(and morphs), Path of Darkness(and morphs), Soul Tether health absorb, Caltrops(and morphs), Entropy(and morphs) break sometimes, i bet my liver there is more
Shadow Cloak(and morphs) - some mobs hit player, some fallow player, some are stunned and some just reset (especially when cloak is used more then once)
Shadowy Disguise - some skills dont get crit bonus
Dark Cloak - some bleeds or dots are not cleansed
Concealed Weapon - if you swap weapons you lose speed bonus and need to restealth
Path of Darkness - just sucks, nothing broken, maybe being affected by terrain
Aspect of Terror(and morphs) - works month ago , now feared targets still hold block
Manifestation of Terror - trap dont trigger instant
Summon Shade(and morphs) - shades damage is always same (zero scaling), shades cant hit stealth targets while Piercing Mark is on them, shades are treated like NPC, they take heal 'proc' from Strife, Mutagen etc., shades damage debuff dont stack
Shadow Image - skill range is 28m, but teleport to shade range is like 20m
Dark Shades - sometimes they run away chasing another target, somtimes they dont attack another target

Strife(and morphs) - heal for 25% of damage done before using that skill, if player burn FC it will be 25% from 4000.
Agony(and morphs) - block, player on horse, CCed and this skill just dont work
Cripple(and morphs) - speed reduction bonus dont work on some mobs
Siphoning Strikes(and morphs) - animation effect disappear or is placed in strange positions (on player head, 2 meters ahead of player etc.)
Siphoning Strikes(and morphs) - skill have internal cooldown, using Dual Wield player lose one light attack 'proc', if buffed by Haste or other speed attack bonuses all weapons lose one or more 'proc'
Siphoning Strikes(and morphs) - no 'proc' if player damage is absorbed (welcome to Blazing Shield world)

This i think are not all bugged skills.

Varicite wrote: »

The rest of it is basically just a lot of misconceptions, outright falsehoods, and "Sorc has this, give me this, DK has this, give me this."

If sorc BE or dk GB, templar BS will be countered by potion, magelight or your own dots, you will drown in they tears.

Jaxom · September 2014

Matuzes wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

A large part of the problem is that everybody wants NBs "fixed", but even in this thread, there isn't really any sort of consensus on what is actually broken, aside from Shadow Cloak.

Death Stroke(and morphs) - animation will happen but without any effect
Impale - animation sometimes stuck and prevents player to use skill for some time
Teleport Strike(and morphs) - teleporting to players through keep doors, animation happens but without any effect
Incapacitate - apart from doubful usefulness of that skill, there is snare instead of immobilize effect

Shadow Cloak(and morphs) - break if any enemy is hit by: Cripple(and morphs), Path of Darkness(and morphs), Soul Tether health absorb, Caltrops(and morphs), Entropy(and morphs) break sometimes, i bet my liver there is more
Shadow Cloak(and morphs) - some mobs hit player, some fallow player, some are stunned and some just reset (especially when cloak is used more then once)
Shadowy Disguise - some skills dont get crit bonus
Dark Cloak - some bleeds or dots are not cleansed
Concealed Weapon - if you swap weapons you lose speed bonus and need to restealth
Path of Darkness - just sucks, nothing broken, maybe being affected by terrain
Aspect of Terror(and morphs) - works month ago , now feared targets still hold block
Manifestation of Terror - trap dont trigger instant
Summon Shade(and morphs) - shades damage is always same (zero scaling), shades cant hit stealth targets while Piercing Mark is on them, shades are treated like NPC, they take heal 'proc' from Strife, Mutagen etc., shades damage debuff dont stack
Shadow Image - skill range is 28m, but teleport to shade range is like 20m
Dark Shades - sometimes they run away chasing another target, somtimes they dont attack another target

Strife(and morphs) - heal for 25% of damage done before using that skill, if player burn FC it will be 25% from 4000.
Agony(and morphs) - block, player on horse, CCed and this skill just dont work
Cripple(and morphs) - speed reduction bonus dont work on some mobs
Siphoning Strikes(and morphs) - animation effect disappear or is placed in strange positions (on player head, 2 meters ahead of player etc.)
Siphoning Strikes(and morphs) - skill have internal cooldown, using Dual Wield player lose one light attack 'proc', if buffed by Haste or other speed attack bonuses all weapons lose one or more 'proc'
Siphoning Strikes(and morphs) - no 'proc' if player damage is absorbed (welcome to Blazing Shield world)

This i think are not all bugged skills.

Varicite wrote: »

The rest of it is basically just a lot of misconceptions, outright falsehoods, and "Sorc has this, give me this, DK has this, give me this."

If sorc BE or dk GB, templar BS will be countered by potion, magelight or your own dots, you will drown in they tears.

I'd change the comment about Strife. That is currently an exploit of a broken skill and we certainly don't want to spread how to do it.

eventide03b14a_ESO · September 2014

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

I wish night blades have a little more sustain when it comes to health.

Siphoning

Strife
Deals [x] Magic Damage and heals player for 25% of the damage inflicted, every 2 seconds for 10 seconds.

If i do 500 damage with this move I should get 125 points back every two seconds for 10 seconds. So that is about 625 health in 10 seconds. Not bad but this ability does not always give you the correct amount of health so you have to spam the attack in order to benefit from it.
Sap Essence
Deals [x] Magic Damage to nearby enemies and increases weapon damage by 6% for each enemy damaged, for 20 seconds

Nearby allies are healed for [x]

This value is increased 20% for each enemy hit

This ability is so confusing. It does not say it can heal the user but it does but every time is use it. It seems like I cannot heal my enough unless I have a lot of enemies attack me but in a boss battle this skill feels like a waste of magicka. Skill is pretty good for some body who uses sword and shield line because you can quickly get back health if your are tanking.

Leeching Strikes
[*] While toggled, basic weapon attacks restore 3% Magicka and Stamina and 2% Health
[*] Weapon and Spell Damage reduced by 25% (22% at rank IV)
[*] 10% chance basic weapon attacks to restore 15% Magicka and Stamina

This skill is a great way to get back magicka and stamina but the 22% reduce weapon and spell Damage is a let down. Lets say I have 2000 health and 1500 stamina and 1400 magicka. I would get 40 health back from each attack from my weapon, 42 for magicka, and 45 from stamina. This amount of resource back is meaningless for the huge debuf of both attack and magic damage but what makes this ability good is because of the 10% chance to restore 15% Magicka and Stamina. So I will get 225 stamina and 210 magicka back. This is good but I wish you can get back so more health. Like having 10% chance to get back health this would be a much better skill. A chance to get back 200 health would be worth the huge debuff in battle. This skill could be great sustainment over all but it is not.

Soul Siphoner
Rank I

While using Siphoning abilities:

Increases healing from Siphoning abilities by 8%

Siphoning Rank 22

Rank II

While using Siphoning abilities:

Increases healing from Siphoning abilities by 15%

This would be good passive if it work with the other class abilities or if some siphoning abilities work better.
Shadow

Refreshing path
Enemy targets in front of player take Magic Damage every second for 10 seconds

Increases movement speed 50% for duration

Allies are healed for 0 every 1 second

This typically heals for about 50 per second but you have to be on the shadow in order to get it. So about 500 health as long you can stay on the shadow. Ok heal but most of the time you going to use the shadow to help you dodge attacks so you are probably will not get all of the healing.

Assassin
Killer's Blade
Deals [x] Magic Damage

Low Health targets take 300% additional damage

Heals player for 15% Max Health when killing an opponent with this ability (18% at rank IV)

This skill gives you back 360 health if you have 2000 max health. This good but you have to kill the opponent in order to get the health which would not work in a boss battle.
Reaping Mark

Marks a target for death for 60 seconds

Player's attacks ignore 75% of target's Armor and Spell Resistance, and target's attacks ignore 75% of player's Armor and Spell Resistance

Killing a marked target restores player's Health by 60% and increasing Weapon Damage by 12 and Spell Damage by 12, for 30 seconds

This the best heal nightblades have you can get 1200 health back. The big problem with this skill is that you have to kill the enemy in order to get back the health. This is only useful in boss battle if the boss has adds other than that it is useless because this skill will make you die faster.

So most of the skills are very situational. We have many healing skills but there are only a couple of moves that would help us in a boss battle. I just wish there a better way heal without having to use a restoration staff.

Our class is given really stiff penalties for every sort of buff we have. It's actually infuriating how badly we get shafted.

Invisibility- Way too easy to break.
Siphoning Strikes- Sacrifice a great deal of DPS for little return.
Blur- This is just a joke.
Mark Target- We become just as vulnerable as our mark.
Haste- ...

I feel like most of our "buffs" are not worth the slot they take up.

venomsky · September 2014

NB have about 5 usefull skills (clock is broken)
other classes all skills usefull, i have NB character i spend tons of time to make my build and i have DK character which have great class skills!! ZOS no intrested in fixing NB too much DK users will start crying.....
Most of my friends choose NB and atm they left game.

eventide03b14a_ESO · September 2014

Varicite wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

@kypho I did not say it was as good as other classes. I said there is no point in belittling something even further then it already is. Its like stating information that is obvious already to make a point but since it is already been known its redundant and not helping the situation. You should at least come up with some positive information that a person would want to know but can't because of all the hate and negativity surrounding the subject. That is what I am trying to say.

I think the phrase 'beating a dead horse to death' would fit nicely here.

There wouldn't be a dead horse to beat if ZOS would just GET OFF THEIR BLOODY ARSES AND FIX NBs ALREADY!

A large part of the problem is that everybody wants NBs "fixed", but even in this thread, there isn't really any sort of consensus on what is actually broken, aside from Shadow Cloak.

The rest of it is basically just a lot of misconceptions, outright falsehoods, and "Sorc has this, give me this, DK has this, give me this."

Well that's just not true. We are all complaining about our comparatively crappy buffs.

ZOS has been pushing fixes out to the class slowly over time, and NBs are in a pretty good place overall when comparing actual ability to play the game.

Cloth/staff NBs are doing excellently in both PvE and PvP, there are some pretty good stamina-based NB builds floating around now that are able to consistently break the 1k DPS wall in Trials, and of course the NB is still the best class in the game for stealth ganking.

I actually find the combat slow and choppy. This is not just a problem with Nightblades of course it's the way combat works in this game. It's fine if you play with a staff or even a bow because you're really just spamming attacks and it will hit them if they are in the general direction you are facing. Melee combat, especially anything requiring precision feels way to slow for my taste. I feel like I should be able to get off chain attacks much more quickly. For instance Shadow Cloak and Veiled strike combo. They both claim to be instant but to me instant means I hit them one after another and I shouldn't notice a delay and I do. Another problem is that when you stun an enemy they move their body downward and you actually have to look down to hit them with another attack. It's incredibly clunky and not at all smooth. They really need to work on the speed of attacks and be more forgiving of an enemy not being right in the reticle.

Defensively, they are lacking compared to some other classes, as it was designed to be more elusive via use of Cloak, teleports, speed boosts, etc. If the major crux of NB defense (Shadow Cloak) was fixed, this would be a lot more viable, imo.

Teleport Strike could be a lot more effective honestly. It's definitely not the worst skill we have but by no means even close to being on par with similar skills like Bolt Escape which can be used both offensively and defensively.

Offensively in PvP, NBs have access to a few choice actions that other classes don't, like a CC that works even while your opponent is blocking, shades (teleport or stamina drain morphs), etc.

Oh come on, seriously? Shades? That is by far the most disappointing spell we have and our stupid fear only works on two targets at a time. Fear would actually be alright if we had a functioning invisibility , but then we probably wouldn't need to use it if invisibility worked properly.

I think that as long as they continue to move in the right direction, things are fine. There are some really great NB builds out there, and some awesome NB players.

Of course, as w/ any class, your mileage may vary. I honestly believe that NBs were seen as the underdog for so long, that even now when they are MUCH, MUCH better than at launch, some players fail to grasp some of the potential of the class' strengths and then simply blame the tools instead of their own skill.

I'm not the best NB out there, but most often when things go wrong, I try to see what I have at my disposal and what I did wrong in the situation, and usually there are things that I could have done better.

Mostly true. They are finally giving us some much deserved attention. And yes you will find remarkable players of any class. But to be a remarkable Nightblade takes a lot more patience and skill and a bit of luck. It's like they threw a bunch of cool spells at the class but didn't give any consideration at how they might actually work. What they need to do is flesh it out and LISTEN to the community playing the class. That's why these threads exist. People get a little angry sure, but the complaints are legitimate and if people defend the broken mechanics or give them a free pass because "they slowly working on it" then they will think it's acceptable. This isn't beta, in fact we are 4 months in. Plenty of time to fine tune the class if they actually put the efforts towards that.

zhevon · September 2014

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I actually find the combat slow and choppy. This is not just a problem with Nightblades of course it's the way combat works in this game. It's fine if you play with a staff or even a bow because you're really just spamming attacks and it will hit them if they are in the general direction you are facing. Melee combat, especially anything requiring precision feels way to slow for my taste. I feel like I should be able to get off chain attacks much more quickly. For instance Shadow Cloak and Veiled strike combo. They both claim to be instant but to me instant means I hit them one after another and I shouldn't notice a delay and I do. Another problem is that when you stun an enemy they move their body downward and you actually have to look down to hit them with another attack. It's incredibly clunky and not at all smooth. They really need to work on the speed of attacks and be more forgiving of an enemy not being right in the reticle.

Bingo

Plus mobs generally have these riduculous snares that slow your movement down dramatically. And often I will be totally outside the red AOE zone and get hit anyway. If you are a melee in the face (and somewhat squishy) NB; if something is a little desync'd or a skill don't fire you die. Its annoying.

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

<snip> And yes you will find remarkable players of any class. But to be a remarkable Nightblade takes a lot more patience and skill and a bit of luck. It's like they threw a bunch of cool spells at the class but didn't give any consideration at how they might actually work. What they need to do is flesh it out and LISTEN to the community playing the class. That's why these threads exist. People get a little angry sure, but the complaints are legitimate and if people defend the broken mechanics or give them a free pass because "they slowly working on it" then they will think it's acceptable. This isn't beta, in fact we are 4 months in. Plenty of time to fine tune the class if they actually put the efforts towards that.

Bingo ...

There is an awful lot of ZoS WhiteKnighting - where legitimate complaints are being mocked. At this point at least all bugs in the skill tree should be fixed for ALL classes. As we can see by the above post; there are a lot of issues. These are needed fixes not just some nebulous requested to be over powered as some have claimed.

Varicite · September 2014

Rair.Kitani wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

...
Cloth/staff NBs are doing excellently in both PvE and PvP, there are some pretty good stamina-based NB builds floating around now that are able to consistently break the 1k DPS wall in Trials, and of course the NB is still the best class in the game for stealth ganking.
...

Sry for being a bit OT and a noob, but what is meant by 1k dps wall?
Single Target DPS spike, overall after a boss fight, aoe DPS? I just dont get it

No worries, friend. : )

What I meant by the "1k DPS wall" is the preconception that if your build is unable to pull at least 1k DPS, then you are not an asset to a high-end Trials team.

In reality, if you are above 800 DPS, you are generally fine for most Trials, but when looking for more members, most groups want you to be at 1k+.

1k DPS single-target overall on a boss, though this will vary on certain bosses, like the Mage which is harder to get a clear parse for.

Sorry for not being clearer.